Ha HA Ha- Mystique Oddity

[timclix]

Mystique has Perplex and Stealth. OK. With the lame FAQ ruling on Perplex and Outwit, that you need a clear LoF, and figures in hindering terrain never have that. So, Mystique cannot Perplex herself is she is in hindering terrain! So, she'd have to turn off the stealth, and the enemy could then probability control her. Sad.

[DiceX]

Very observant. I wonder if this will get an official ruling.

[KaiserSelroc]

I don't think it works like that. Obviously, Mystique can see herself! There's no LoS only when another fig is making a ranged attack. When Mystique perplexes herself, its close combat.

[Rynth]

Plus Stealth is Optional Mystique can turn it off long enough to perplex herself then turn it back on.

[timclix]

While I'd like to agree with KaiserSelroc, unfortunately, some of the lame parts of the rules/faq do not address things in the "obvious" way. Even an adjacent figure cannot perplex/outwit a stealthed character. Close combat never is a consideration. Only LoS, where stealth says LoS is always blocked by the square the figure is in.

Rynth, as I said originally, she can turn it off. That makes her vulnerable to certain game effects however. You should reread the rules on optional powers though. You cannot turn them on and off and on again at will. You may turn them off, and then they stay off until they reactivate on the next turn. As a Judge, you may be called upon to know that sometime. If you turn off defend so a medic can heal a figure, it stays off.

[Badges2]

Turning off stealth for the rest of your turn would have to bad effects that I can think of. It's only useful for defense, so I dont' see the downside to turning it off.

[the itsy bit]

well..

in my turn I turn off Stealth and perplex with Mystique, end of my turn it automaticallty turns back on.
So you would never have the benefit of seeing me.

[Melkoloran]

Because stealth clicks back on, it's never really a problem, but it's a bit silly that you have to unstealth to perplex yourself. It's also silly that the other team's figs would keep forgetting where you were each time you unstealthed but then stealthed back.

[skeevo666]

Originally posted by timclix
Only LoS, where stealth says LoS is always blocked by the square the figure is in.


But you don't (indeed, can't) draw of LoS to yourself. A line has to have a beginning & ending.

Black Cat using the Batman Ally team ability (the only Stealthy PCer I can think of right now) could stiil use her PC on herself . . .

[CaptainCarl]

either way you can turn stealth of on your turn and then turn steal on again beginning of opponents turn

just my 10 cents

thecaptain

[DiceX]

Originally posted by skeevo666
But you don't (indeed, can't) draw of LoS to yourself. A line has to have a beginning & ending.

It states in the PAC that in order to use Perplex you must have LOF.
Period.
If you can't have LOF to yourself, you can't Perplex yourself.

You can indeed have LOF to yourself. In order to use it on yourself you must turn Stealth off.

[skeevo666]

fron the FAQ:

Perplex requires a clear line of fire. It is not, however, a ranged-attack action (or a close combat action!) and therefore is not subject to restrictions specific to ranged attacks. Exception: When used against a Soaring figure, Perplex is subject to the same half-range reduction as a ranged attack (see DC rules, p. 15).


A figure with Perplex may use that power on itself.



How is this a "lame" ruling, timclix? It pretty much makes this whole thread moot. (FAQ says the same for Probability Control too :) )

[ASGDiamond]

According to the rule book, when making a ranged attack, you don't count the square your character is standing in. (ie a range of 4 is four squares away, not counting the one you're in). So a ranged line of fire on yourself is a distance of 0, not counting the square you're in, so it's ok.

[T_Darksoul]

Originally posted by timclix
If you turn off defend so a medic can heal a figure, it stays off.

First off "optional" powers can be turned off at anytime and will re-activate at the begining of the next turn.

Rulebooks page 9

"Super powers are in effect as long as they appear in the stat slot. If a super power
is described as optional, it is assumed that the character is using that power unless the
player controlling the character states the power is being cancelled. The owning player
may cancel the effect at any time, in which case it is canceled until the end of the current
turn. At the beginning of the next turn, it is assumed to be in effect again."

Second you NEVER have to "turn off" defend to heal a fig.

From the PAC

"SUPPORT This character can heal friendly figures. (Optional) Give this
character a close combat action with a friendly figure as the target. Neither
figure may be adjacent to an opposing figure. Ignore all modifiers to the
close combat attack. If the attack succeeds, roll 1 six-sided die and heal that
many clicks to the target figure."

So Defend would be a non issue as well as Perplex.

Just a little clarification.;)

[DiceX]

Then why would it be an issue with PC?
If the same rules apply to Perplex and PC, why can't you make a Stealthed player re-roll?

[timclix]

Firstly, T-Darksoul- partially quoting me, and then ADDING IN A PERIOD where I did not place one to what, show me up?; make me look stupid? is a little classless IMO. I already asserted that downed optional powers return at the start of the next turn.

Second- am I to understand, that many of you feel, that PC and Perplex work on stealthed characters, but Outwit does not? We ignore what is plainly written on the PAC, where PC and Outwit, and Perplex all plainly state that clear LoF is required; and the same PAC that says the square the character is in counts as blocked? I'm not a big fan of selectively ignoring written rules. Never mind everything we learned in geometry class about the structure of lines and such- this is the abstract world of game rules and real world sense doesn't seem to apply to some of them.

Third, there remains valid game effects, such as PC and Pulsewave why a character may wish to remain stealthed during its own turn, even if that power returns later. Debateable that Defend would even be a "modifier" anyhow, but thats a different thread. If PC works anyhow, there's still other issues like Pulsewave to consider.

[skeevo666]

Originally posted by timclix
Firstly, T-Darksoul- partially quoting me, and then ADDING IN A PERIOD where I did not place one to what, show me up?; make me look stupid? is a little classless IMO. I already asserted that downed optional powers return at the start of the next turn.


I don't see where he altered your quote. Lay off the caffeine, dude.


Originally posted by timclix
Second- am I to understand, that many of you feel, that PC and Perplex work on stealthed characters, but Outwit does not?

No, I'm saying a character with stealth & PC/Perplex doesn't need to turn off their stealth to use those powers on themselves. The FAQ is saying you need LoS, but it's not a ranged combat action (so people don't try to get as much PC/Perplex as they have arrows on their dial)

I'm also saying you always have LoS to yourself (and maybe I'm arguing semantics when I say you can't have a line to the same point a line originates from; it's an incredibly tiny circle :) )

[T_Darksoul]

Originally posted by timclix
While I'd like to agree with KaiserSelroc, unfortunately, some of the lame parts of the rules/faq do not address things in the "obvious" way. Even an adjacent figure cannot perplex/outwit a stealthed character. Close combat never is a consideration. Only LoS, where stealth says LoS is always blocked by the square the figure is in.

Rynth, as I said originally, she can turn it off. That makes her vulnerable to certain game effects however. You should reread the rules on optional powers though. You cannot turn them on and off and on again at will. You may turn them off, and then they stay off until they reactivate on the next turn. As a Judge, you may be called upon to know that sometime. If you turn off defend so a medic can heal a figure, it stays off.

Now I will admit that I added the color and size BUT it is already there. Just look back at your original post.;)

[Agent_X]

Rulebooks page 9

"Super powers are in effect as long as they appear in the stat slot. If a super power
is described as optional, it is assumed that the character is using that power unless the
player controlling the character states the power is being cancelled. The owning player
may cancel the effect at any time, in which case it is canceled until the end of the current
turn. At the beginning of the next turn, it is assumed to be in effect again."
[/QUOTE]

Is that the beginning of your next turn or your opponents?

[Noman]

Does anyone else think that :-

a) playtesting would have been a good idea,

and

b) we need a new rulebook ?

LoL

All the Best

Noman

[phonixinmi]

Agent_X,

As it's written, "the next turn" is the opponent's. Otherwise, the rulebook would've read "your" (next turn).