Need a new Fantomex

[solidpro]

So don't hate me but this is my rookie attempt at a new Fantomex. I based him off of the Fantomex in the most recent X-Force series.

#001 V Fantomex
Team: X-Men
Range: 8 :bolt::bolt::bolt:
Points: 140
Keywords: Martial Artist, Spy, X-Force, Weapon X, X-Men, Scientist
m-normala-sharpshooterd-normalg-normal101117310111738101638101627101527915268143KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
SP Trait - Misdirection: Fantomex can use Shape Change.
Speed - E.V.A.: Fantomex possesses the Flight ability. If he uses the Carry ability, do not modify his movement.
Attack - The Great Illusionist: Fantomex can use Running Shot, Stealth and Mind Control. Fantomex does not take damage from using Mind Control. When Fantomex uses Mind Control he can only give successfully hit targets move actions.


The Shape change represents him throwing out more illusions while trying to evade attacks. Everything else should be pretty self explanitory if you have been reading the recent X-Force. Let me know what you think.

[Hellboy the Bellboy]

That is a 150pt dial at least. Love the powers and the dial. Very appropriate but way too under costed.

[son of shamrock]

Very comic accurate dial. Nicely done.

[solidpro]

So I raised the point cost to 150. Im really glad everyone has liked it other than that so far. Hopefully WK will get some inspiration from this because I really want to complete my current X-Force team lol

[Wolf_Otaku]

Really really like. Hate the cost though.

[solidpro]

Really really like. Hate the cost though.

Too High? Too low? I had it at 100 before but then it was suggested that I raise it.

[Wolf_Otaku]

Too High? Too low? I had it at 100 before but then it was suggested that I raise it.

I wouldn't know. I never know. I just know the stats and powers seem accurate, but I would never play a fantomex that expensive. Especially, since he'd need to fit on an Uncanny X-Force team.

It's always just best to make comparisons, go with your gut feeling, or find a tool to calculate the cost as accurately as possible. Because you'll never please anyone here on the realms, they'll always say something is undercosted.

[Dark_Knight]

Nice Dial, a couple Notes of personal opinion:

- Should maybe have 3 Lightning Bolts like Golden Age Version as he is wicked with the 2 pistols and could hit up to 3 opponents at once easily

- I would put E.V.A as the Movement Special Power and include Stealth into it and subtract Psychic Blast. Psychic Blast should be its own regular Standard Power sprinkled throughout the dial

- Maybe give Running Shot and Stealth some clicks of their own and mix it up with the E.V.A. SP clicks throughout the dial

- Mind Control not suited for Fantomex, he doesn't mind control others, just misdirects their vision/perception and even then we haven't gotten the full explanation of his misdirection ability (I have only read up to Issue #16, however so if this has been explained in new issue, my bad)

- I would give him Pseudo Shape Change a la Skrulls Team Ability via a TRAIT for him, as he is misdirecting opponents throughout all the issues thus far (except AOA Iceman) If not, then mixing it in more so than the last 2 clicks is more suitable. As it stands he can get hit the first 5 clicks without any ability to misdirect or even evade the attack (Super Senses)

[Wolf_Otaku]

Nice Dial, a couple Notes of personal opinion:

- Should maybe have 3 Lightning Bolts like Golden Age Version as he is wicked with the 2 pistols and could hit up to 3 opponents at once easily

- I would put E.V.A as the Movement Special Power and include Stealth into it and subtract Psychic Blast. Psychic Blast should be its own regular Standard Power sprinkled throughout the dial

- Maybe give Running Shot and Stealth some clicks of their own and mix it up with the E.V.A. SP clicks throughout the dial

- Mind Control not suited for Fantomex, he doesn't mind control others, just misdirects their vision/perception and even then we haven't gotten the full explanation of his misdirection ability (I have only read up to Issue #16, however so if this has been explained in new issue, my bad)

- I would give him Pseudo Shape Change a la Skrulls Team Ability via a TRAIT for him, as he is misdirecting opponents throughout all the issues thus far (except AOA Iceman) If not, then mixing it in more so than the last 2 clicks is more suitable. As it stands he can get hit the first 5 clicks without any ability to misdirect or even evade the attack (Super Senses)

Being fully immersed in a powerful illusion and turning on your allies isn't mind control?

[Contingency Plan]

Nice Dial, a couple Notes of personal opinion:

- Should maybe have 3 Lightning Bolts like Golden Age Version as he is wicked with the 2 pistols and could hit up to 3 opponents at once easily

- I would put E.V.A as the Movement Special Power and include Stealth into it and subtract Psychic Blast. Psychic Blast should be its own regular Standard Power sprinkled throughout the dial

- Maybe give Running Shot and Stealth some clicks of their own and mix it up with the E.V.A. SP clicks throughout the dial

- Mind Control not suited for Fantomex, he doesn't mind control others, just misdirects their vision/perception and even then we haven't gotten the full explanation of his misdirection ability (I have only read up to Issue #16, however so if this has been explained in new issue, my bad)

- I would give him Pseudo Shape Change a la Skrulls Team Ability via a TRAIT for him, as he is misdirecting opponents throughout all the issues thus far (except AOA Iceman) If not, then mixing it in more so than the last 2 clicks is more suitable. As it stands he can get hit the first 5 clicks without any ability to misdirect or even evade the attack (Super Senses)

I agree with the Shape Change. He almost deserves both Shape Change and Super Senses to show his misdirection. Gives him a better chance at it.

Otherwise, love the dial.

[Dark_Knight]

Being fully immersed in a powerful illusion and turning on your allies isn't mind control?

Which scene/panel are you talking about? Honest question because I could have overlooked it.

To my reading thus far Psylocke is the only one who overtakes others (War) psyche?

The only thing I've seen is Fantomex create the illusion of his own or a teammate's demise or even existence in the panel itself, usually as a distraction to the opponent.

Again, I could have overlooked it but at no point do I remember him taking control of his opponent's actions, which is the key point as Heroclix Mind Control is represented this way. I think Skrulls TA Shape Change and even Super Senses better represents his misdirection, not Mind Control i.e., being able to control an opposing character during your turn

[Dark_Knight]

I agree with the Shape Change. He almost deserves both Shape Change and Super Senses to show his misdirection. Gives him a better chance at it.

Otherwise, love the dial.

What else could work truthfully is something along the lines of Human Target's Trait as Fantomex is usually creating illusions to save his teammates as well:

THE HUMAN TARGET: Friendly characters adjacent to Human Target may use Shape Change if they cannot already. If a friendly adjacent character makes a successful Shape Change roll, Human Target becomes the target of that attack, even if he is otherwise an illegal target.

Tweak this and give Fantomex Shape Change as well and I think you're on to something

[Wolf_Otaku]

Which scene/panel are you talking about? Honest question because I could have overlooked it.

To my reading thus far Psylocke is the only one who overtakes others (War) psyche?

The only thing I've seen is Fantomex create the illusion of his own or a teammate's demise or even existence in the panel itself, usually as a distraction to the opponent.

Again, I could have overlooked it but at no point do I remember him taking control of his opponent's actions, which is the key point as Heroclix Mind Control is represented this way. I think Skrulls TA Shape Change and even Super Senses better represents his misdirection, not Mind Control i.e., being able to control an opposing character during your turn

Did you totally miss when Fantomex had several times misdirected the Final Forsemen into attacking one another, including tricking all four of them into missing the ship's space jump?

If casting an illusion to fool your opponent into attacking an opponent aka taking control of an opposing figure to attack another opposing figure isn't mind control, what is it then?

[NeoShazam]

#088 V Fantomex
Team: X-Men
Range: 8 :bolt::bolt:
Points: 125
Keywords: Martial Artist, Spy, X-Force, Weapon X, X-Men
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal101117310111738101638101627101527915268142KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOSpeed - Great Illusionist: Fantomex can use Running Shot, Stealth and Mind Control
Attack - E.V.A.: Fantomex can use Psychic/Blast. Fantomex possesses the Flight ability and can carry up to 3 friendly characters. If he uses the Flight ability, do not modify his movement.

The last two clix of Shape change represents him throwing out one more illusion while he escapes to heal up. Everything else should be pretty self explanitory if you have been reading the recent X-Force. Let me know what you think.

Thinking the dial is more of the 175 range because as I'm thinking of how your dial is going to play it is an UBER piece. Flying running shot (ignoring terrain) 5 spaces (ignoring the hindering modifier carrying 3 figures that could perplex, enhance, or prob him) with an 11 Psy Blast for 3 damage plus Outwit. Then push him to do it again losing nothing...so he's an uber point and click piece.

[YoungTG]

Thinking the dial is more of the 175 range because as I'm thinking of how your dial is going to play it is an UBER piece. Flying running shot (ignoring terrain) 5 spaces (ignoring the hindering modifier carrying 3 figures that could perplex, enhance, or prob him) with an 11 Psy Blast for 3 damage plus Outwit. Then push him to do it again losing nothing...so he's an uber point and click piece.

Quiet, Cam! This dial is awesome and would never see play at 175. You see how many Skrull Emperors get played right? If you put him at 140 or above, he'd be lumped in with the Skrull Emperors, Taskmasters, and even Bane where the cost is just enough to not get them played. Even though Bane has a good design (the others...not so much), he's just too costly for what you could get for less.

Let's comprimse and call him 130.

[Dark_Knight]

Did you totally miss when Fantomex had several times misdirected the Final Forsemen into attacking one another, including tricking all four of them into missing the ship's space jump?

No, I didn't miss that, I've read and own all the issues up to 16. I referred to it earlier, misdirecting their perception and reality as diversions to escape. Super Senses?

If casting an illusion to fool your opponent into attacking an opponent aka taking control of an opposing figure to attack another opposing figure isn't mind control, what is it then?

I think you're stretching it here, just my opinion. Again, in that fight scene (and many others) he is warping the perception and reality of his opponents as they way they see it, not what truly is. Maybe Shape Change or Super Senses doesn't encapsulate this enough, but Mind Control certainly does not. He does not take over the bodily actions of his opponents, just their perception and what they think they see with his illusions, i.e., he did not take over the Horsemen's bodily movements as in they moved against their will, just poignantly tricked them through illusion to taking on each other while he and the others made their escape. Maybe Perplex and Outwit is suitable enough as we still don't have a full explanation via the comic itself of this misdirection

Wizkids/NECA will be making a dial of him soon which is why I have personally refrained from making a Custom Dial of him. It will be interesting to see how they handle him, although I don't see him being more points than either of the Wolverine's we've had as he is truly what makes that team go right now. Wolverine's the man in that comic :devious:

[Wolf_Otaku]

No, I didn't miss that, I've read and own all the issues up to 16. I referred to it earlier, misdirecting their perception and reality as diversions to escape. Super Senses?



I think you're stretching it here, just my opinion. Again, in that fight scene (and many others) he is warping the perception and reality of his opponents as they way they see it, not what truly is. Maybe Shape Change or Super Senses doesn't encapsulate this enough, but Mind Control certainly does not. He does not take over the bodily actions of his opponents, just their perception and what they think they see with his illusions, i.e., he did not take over the Horsemen's bodily movements as in they moved against their will, just poignantly tricked them to taking on each other while he and the others made their escape.

Okay, don't skew my opinions because I've read 1-16 as well. And there were several panels where Fantomex caused his opponents to think they were someone else and attack them, due to the illusion mistaking them.

That's not purely Super Senses and Shape Change since it involves some kind of action and damaging the opponent.

I'll cite pages and issues if I have to.

[Dark_Knight]

Okay, don't skew my opinions because I've read 1-16 as well.

No one is skewing anything, relax ...

And there were several panels where Fantomex caused his opponents to think they were someone else and attack them, due to the illusion mistaking them.

Yes, there are multiples points in each story arc thus far where the opponents think they either possess someone in their grasp that doesn't actually end up being the case or are hitting/striking someone on X-Force when they may be hitting nothing or a friendly. Maybe Probability Control reflects this? I just don't think Mind Control does

That's not purely Super Senses and Shape Change since it involves some kind of action and damaging the opponent.
The result may be something like that, but I kind of like the other dial that just got posted in which maybe if there is Mind Control it is some pseudo version thereof. To me, Braddock is the true telepath with the ability to make opponents physically do or think things they don't want to. Not just make them see what she wants them to see a la Fantomex.

I'll cite pages and issues if I have to.
No need, nobody is questioning your intelligence into the matter. Was an honest question by me earlier for you to cite an issue in particular where Fantomex mind controls an opponent into doing something they don't want to do against their will. Not through illusion or making them think they see or hold or have accomplished X, Y, or Z through visionary illusion, but through actual manipulation of the opponents bodily movements i.e., to me Heroclix Mind Control

[solidpro]

So in my opinion, the closest power that represents his misdirection is Mind Control. Uncanny X-Force #1 he uses his "misdirection" to make a couple of London guards that he was a termite inspector and also made them go on break. That kinda seems like mind control to me.

[Dark_Knight]

So in my opinion, the closest power that represents his misdirection is Mind Control. Uncanny X-Force #1 he uses his "misdirection" to make a couple of London guards that he was a termite inspector and also made them go on break. That kinda seems like mind control to me.

They believe they see a Termite Inspector and then he tells them to go on break and then tells the reader he just misdirected them. This is true. I still think he's doing a lot of this misdirection in defense of himself (Shape Change or Super Senses) or his teammates (Human Target Trait) or in the case you pointed out, to misdirect his opponents to another direction as a more offensive maneuver, i.e., something similar to Mind Control on your turn. I still think it should be neutered in some way if it is Mind Control

Look, it's your dial and I doubt anybody has the right answer to this as soon we're going to have an official Fantomex Dial (within a year, at the latest I would imagine) in which case we'll see Wizkids/NECAs interpretation.

[Wolf_Otaku]

So in my opinion, the closest power that represents his misdirection is Mind Control. Uncanny X-Force #1 he uses his "misdirection" to make a couple of London guards that he was a termite inspector and also made them go on break. That kinda seems like mind control to me.

I agree, especially since, as of late, standard powers are used to represent similar abilities. With Quake, Psychic Blast, and Steal Energy used not just as their standard definition.

[ljesss]

Wizkids/NECA will be making a dial of him soon which is why I have personally refrained from making a Custom Dial of him. It will be interesting to see how they handle him...

Really? how soon? because I truly WANT a new Fantomex but I don't see one comming in GoG nor Mighty Avengers so c'mon Wizkids WHEN??? and please a new X-Force Deathlok too :cool:

[solidpro]

They believe they see a Termite Inspector and then he tells them to go on break and then tells the reader he just misdirected them. This is true. I still think he's doing a lot of this misdirection in defense of himself (Shape Change or Super Senses) or his teammates (Human Target Trait) or in the case you pointed out, to misdirect his opponents to another direction as a more offensive maneuver, i.e., something similar to Mind Control on your turn. I still think it should be neutered in some way if it is Mind Control

Look, it's your dial and I doubt anybody has the right answer to this as soon we're going to have an official Fantomex Dial (within a year, at the latest I would imagine) in which case we'll see Wizkids/NECAs interpretation.

Fair enough. I appreciate all of your input and do hope that WK comes out with a new Fantomex very soon.

[Wolf_Otaku]

a new X-Force Deathlok too :cool:

This. He's become a staple on the team lately, and helped them out on more than one occasion.

[Deaths Head II]

Points should be around 140-150 pts but great job 4 out 5.

[solidpro]

Thanks for all the input

[Dark_Knight]

The updated dial is great and I see you made many changes to him.

I agree with an earlier post he should be around 140 points (Deadpool LE, Cyborg Superman) with that perma-Shape Change and an assortment of colors throughout his dial i.e., only one blank slot at the end.

Nice changes, solid dial

[pupulesurfer]

I like the newest version best. I did some research to learn more about Fantomex and you did a superb job (with the input of the realmsers as well) with making him comic accurate. A few sources state that he is a superb marksman so what if he was a Sharpshooter. Running Shot adjacent to someone while being in stealth and have a 19 D would be pretty accurate I'd think. The EVA is good but EVA can only fly herself, or Fantomex when they are connected so I'm not sure carrying 3 characters fits - unless of course he has in the comics and the sources were wrong. Finally, I agree that Mind Control doesn't seem like an accurate representation of his "misdirection". However, no power on the PAC really can relate to his ability. I feel that a combination of 2 powers does create this effect. My suggestion is get rid of Mind Control and do the following. On the first two or three clicks, make the damage an outwit and perplex power. If you think about those powers together (strictly by definition as well as in practice for heroclix), the combination has the same effect as his ability.