View Full Version : WWE/Wrestling Thread
Because every board needs one (and because we were in danger of taking a thread way off topic.)
Today is the "big" day for the WWE or at least it should be. I'm not too hot on their product lately but there are a few matches on the show I'm interested in.
Predictions time:
WWE Title Match
Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar
Due to Kurt's neck problem the odds here have to be like 90% in Brock's favor. What would I like to see? Kurt pull one out in a surprise hard fought victory. Then come thursday he abdicates the title and Smackdown has a 1 month tournament for a new champion. This would give a lot of guys like Brock, John Cena, Chris Benoit, Eddie, and others a chane to look strong while fighting on the path to the belt. They could even include Goldberg as a surprise entry.
World Heavyweight Title Match
Triple H vs. Booker T
If there's anything right in the balance of the universe Booker T should be given a decent run with the belt. I really doubt it will happen though. Triple H will probably sledgehammer his way to victory.
Hulk Hogan Retirement Match
Hulk Hogan vs. Vince McMahon
It all depends on whether or not Hulk has extended his contract. I can't imagine him losing this match but it could happen. Vince calls in free agent Brock Lesnar to help him get the win?
WWE Tag Team Titles Match
Team Angle vs. Los Guerreros vs. Chris Benoit & Rhyno
I'll go with Los Guerreros cheating to win.
WWE Cruiserweight Title Match
Matt Hardy vs. Rey Mysterio
Mattitude deserves to keep rolling but I'm betting on Rey.
WWE Women's Title Match
Victoria vs. Trish Stratus vs. Jazz
Jazz goes over.
The Rock vs. Steve Austin
Steve Austin goes overe here, but how cool would it be for Hurricane to lend a hand?
Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels
Michaels wins or loses due to cheating. Y2J deserves to go over strong but I doubt it.
The Undertaker & Nathan Jones vs. The Big Show & A-Train
Taker continues his WM winning streak unless Jones turns on him.
World Tag Team Titles Match
Lance Storm & Chief Morley vs. Kane & Rob Van Dam
Morely and Storm win. Can Kane and RVD do something meaningful now?
I probably won't be able to see the show til tomorrow or tuesday, but I'll check back on the thread until the show starts. :)
Thunderbolts
03/30/2003, 14:56
I'm only watching for the Angle match, just to see that he makes it all right. He's going in with too much physical risk, and I don't want him to end up permanently disabled or worse. He doesn't deserve it.
Rest of the show I'm not arsed about.
drop19 - You do know wrestling is a work right? Just when you say things like "Due to Kurt's neck problem the odds here have to be like 90% in Brock's favor. What would I like to see? Kurt pull one out in a surprise hard fought victory" it really makes it seem like you think its real.
Lesnar should win that match, he was going too before Angle needed surgery. I really don't like Angle wreslting this match now. It was going to the mainevent and one of the best WM match of all time, now it will be in the middle of the card. Everytime Angle takes a move the only thing I'll be able to think about is if he can get up. Plus it puts a lot of pressure on a very young, inexperience Lesnar to go out and protect Angle in the match. Vince should not let Angle wrestle tonight.
Booker did beat HHH on Raw this week, which normally means that HHH will win. And if Booker T does win the title (which I hope he does) HHH will get it back in a month or two.
Hogan/Vince - I don't care, I'll be going to wash room and getting popcorn. Vince isn't even a wrestler and Hogan was never very good. THis will suck. Why won't Hogan just go home and retire already. People are sick of him. And Hogan has year long contract, but they have no dates planned past WM as of right now. Hopefully VInce will job and Hogan will just go away.
The Rock vs. Steve Austin - I expect a Goldberg run in.
Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels - This has beena great feud. If HBK jobs cleanly and makes Jericho look good, in my eyes, he will redeem himself for all the #### he did in mid/late 90's, if he doesn't then all that stuff he's said about finding god and changing his ways is nothing but a big pile of bull####.
"The Undertaker & Nathan Jones vs. The Big Show & A-Train - they are doing this match at the next PPV, so that would hint that the heels win.
"Morely and Storm win. Can Kane and RVD do something meaningful now" - Kane no (I'd like to see Kane and Hurricane get back together). RVD, hopefully they have misused this guy so badly its sad.
drop19 - You do know wrestling is a work right?
:eek:
j/k, Yes I am well aware that the sport of wrestling is a work, hence my use of terms like "goes over" and stuff like that. Kurt's neck situation has been a largely documented deal from as far back as the Olympics, a sport that is usually not worked. I know that wrestling works injuries all the time (such as Brock "re-injuring" his ribs right now). Nearly all of the smart-mark news sites have been reporting for quite awhile now though that Kurt's neck situation has legitimately acted up again and he has to get surgery on it similar to those of Steve Austin, Edge, Rhyno, and others who have missed a year or so in the past due to troubles with vertebrae.
Looking back I realize that saying "the odds in Brock's favor" makes it sound like I'm scouting a legit event. I just mean more from the booking perspective the most obvious thing to do is give the title to Brock. There is an outside chance that Kurt will win the match but I really truly doubt it will happen. When I said "hard fought victory" I more meant that I want to see an intense match that has Kurt going over without resorting to some lame excuse or DQ finish. :)
"Kurt's neck situation has legitimately acted up again and he has to get surgery on it similar to those of Steve Austin, Edge, Rhyno, and others who have missed a year or so in the past due to troubles with vertebrae. " - Except when those guys had to have 2 vertebrae fused together Angle needs 4, maybe 5. Youngblood has told Angle that even after the surgey he can't wrestle again (something he never told Austin, Benoit, Lita, Edge or Rhyno). Angle plans to take a year off, wrestle for one more year then retire. I still don't think Vince should let him wrestle. I know Angle wants too and asked Vince to let him, but Vince should have said no.
I would have done an injury angle with Angle, then held a tournment for the title at WM. Take Brock out in the first round, have Benoit win the title, turn heel and then have Brock chase Benoit for a couple months.
Kurt is pretty much a wrestling god so I'm torn. Part of me wants to see him come back and have another decent run, but on the other hand I don't want to see anyone risking their life to do it. Some reports seem to think that the situation isn't as bad as previously reported and that Angle could potentially make it back down the line. Hopefully if this occurs they'll have him on a limited in-ring schedule to protect him. And hopefully he won't lose it over the downtime like HHH has.
The biggest problem comes with what happens next thursday. Whether or not Angle drops the belt or whatever, Brock is still the big gun who needs a heel to work with. Cena's current gimmick is tremendous but I don't know if he's at the level to carry main events yet. Goldberg is an option but I'd expect any big feuds for him to be a slow burn. Rhyno vs Brock would produce some sick matches, while Benoit vs Brock could make for some all around great stuff. There are options, but none of them seem very apparent yet. Oh yeah, they could always turn Nathan Jones and have him feud with Brock. :rolleyes:
(all this talk of fantasy booking and the like has me wondering: do any of you play Extreme Warfare Revenge?)
Cosmic Crow
03/30/2003, 16:56
Did you know this is all ####?Rehearsed,scrutinized,evaluated,predicted....and trying to avoid actual physical injury.It beats the hell out of xXx...the new wanna be Bond.
Cosmic Crow
03/30/2003, 16:59
I've been screwed.My entire message didn't come out.What's the deal HC?
Cosmic Crow
03/30/2003, 17:00
Wait a minute...Can someone say...GB...jr?
"xXx...the new wanna be Bond." - XXX was still better thent he last 8 or so bond movies.
webhead817
03/31/2003, 10:34
WrestleMania was a pretty good show overall. The Angle/Lesnar match was awesome, and what was Lesnar thinking with that Shooting Star Press? I thought he killed himself right there, it look like he landed square on his head. As it is, I think he screwed up his face pretty good. Also, it looks like Rock retired last night, it was pretty out of character for him, the way he acted after the match, talking to SCSA on the mat and greeting his family in the crowd.
Jason Blood
03/31/2003, 10:38
I hope the rock goes back to smackdown
Didn't see the show yet but I saw a clip of Brock botching the shooting star. I've seen a clip of him hitting it with ease from the OVW days so I'm not sure if this was a matter of Angle being too far out, nerves, more body-mass, or what. Luckily it sounds like he just has a concussion. If the injuries keep up the main event for next year's WM will be a 3 hour iron match between Albert and Bill DeMott.
shin-goji
03/31/2003, 13:29
I hope Angle made it through ok. I'm surprised as hell HHH didn't do the Jay-Oh-Bee to Booker T. Book has worked his tail off and really impressed management, when WWF was looking at WCW employees as being all carp. XXX is a great superspy, and I look forward to all of Vin Diesal's stuff including the Pitch Black trilogy.
drgnoftyr
03/31/2003, 13:55
albert vs bill demont would be the best wm match in history id pay to see that stuff...........
its like having a team of aim /hydra agents vs skrulls
ya never know whats gonna happen
makes for great tv
I've seen Brock do that Shooting Star Press before, I think Angle was just too far away when he tried it. Hes really young and inexperienced and probably didn't want to drag him, thought it might look bad or something, which sucks because I've been looking foward to him doing that move for a while. Hopefully Vince will let him do it again. He did get a concusion and his nose was bleeding so they took him to the hospital. He'll probably get a week off.
Angle's fine, and he just saw another doctor about his neck. This doctor (who worked on Scott Hall) has told Angle abotu a different surgery option where he would be in some pain, but he could wrestle again (Dr. Youngblood has told him he can't even after teh surgery) and be back in the ring 6 months after the operation. Angle will probably take this option instead.
Rock hasn't retired yet. He'll be on Raw and at Backlash they are doing Rock v.s Goldberg. I've also heard that Nash will be on Raw tonight to challange HHH for the title. I hope this is bull#### and they continue the HHH/Booker T feud. I don't mind Booker losing if they continue the feud and Booker wins in the end, but if they just end it here they've waisted Booker just they waisted RVD this fall. They really need to get rid of HHH, no one cares about him and no one will care about HHH/Nash, even though Nash and HBk are the only people HHH will drop the title. I can't wait for HHH to cheat on Steph so he'll be jobbing to Joe-Local wrestler on Heat every week.
Hopefully Angle will choose the option best suited to his safety and continued health. I'm somewhat skeptical about this second doctor but if it works out okay then more power to Kurt. I just hope the guy realizes that it's not worth risking his health (and possibly his life) over.
Maybe they'll prove me wrong and give Booker the title tonight or at Backlash but I doubt it. Vince seems adamantly against pushing guys who came from WCW (yet he hires Goldberg and Steiner as quick fixes). I absolutely respect pre-surgery HHH's ability. He was truly on top of the game and was pulling off tons of decent matches. Now he is just slow and plodding and his matches are tired. Booker could have been a big shot in the arm for the company but why try something new when you can just keep the belt on the guy who nobody cares about. If Big Lazy gets a title shot tonight I might have to quit bothering with WWE. There are a lot of great alternatives out there still like NWA-TNA, Ring of Honor and even the less garbagey XPW.
Judging by the preview I saw of RAW tonight, I'd say Goldberg is going to be the next 'contender' for HHH's title.
It said something along the lines of: After defeating Booker T to retain his title, HHH is wondering 'Who's Next?!'.
Personally, I think they ought to give Booker T the title tonight. I'm tired of seeing HHH, not because of all of the backstage politicking I hear he does, but because it's the same thing with him over and over and over and over ...
A Booker T title run could do the company good. But, I don't think we'll be seeing it any time soon ...
Billy Jack
03/31/2003, 16:22
I really don't want to see a rock goldberg match. I stilll get ticked everytime I think of what Goldberg did to Brett Hart.
I agree with everyone that backs a Booker T title reign. Booker is the hardest worker on Raw right now, imo, with goldberg and helms being the most entertaining. :) On a side note I didn't get the match on satillite as I was out of town for the weekend. Can someone give me a who won what match list? I am interested mostly in A: hogan mcmahon, and B: Jericho micheals. Let me know and thanks guys :)
Hogan beat McMahon, even after interference from Rowdy Roddy Piper (who kicked Vince and smacked Hogan in the head with a pipe), and the crooked referee that gave Rock the match over Hogan at the last PPV.
Michaels beat Jericho. Don't remember many details of the match other than Jericho being almost in tears after losing and then giving Michaels a low-blow on his way out of the ring.
Goldberg will be on Raw tonight to start a fued with the Rock this will lead upto Backlash were Rock will lose and will leave to make another movie.
Than Goldberg will go onto face HHH at the June pay-per-view which will be called Blood Bath no King of the Ring this year. Goldberg will beat HHH and finally end his title reign. The only reason HHH won the title and will retain it over the next couple months is to pist us off and make us hate him building more hype for the Goldberg match.
Billy Jack
03/31/2003, 16:33
jacini B- thanks for the quick reply. I take it hot rod is back in the wwe? That'd rock.
also a general question for anyone who may know. I hear sting is negotiating for a wwe contract is this a credible rumour or do I have more of a chance of seeing a Kevin Von Erich comeback ? Thanks again. BJ.
Sting hasn't closed the door on a WWE contract, supposely they have been negotiating for a while, but WWE number one thing was Goldberg and now that they have him they may wait a while on Sting. WWE isn't made out of money and can't afford so many stars at once. The next must likely return you will see is Lex Lugar since they have been talking day to day as of recent.
"Than Goldberg will go onto face HHH at the June pay-per-view which will be called Blood Bath no King of the Ring this year. Goldberg will beat HHH and finally end his title reign" - Maybe. HHH still has a lot of pull backstage with Vince and may not want to job to Goldberg. He probably won't put Goldberg over the right way (which won't help). THe other danger there is that HHH thinks he's Ric Flair (as in he can carry anyone to a good 20-30 minute match). This isn't true (as we saw with Steiner). Goldberg CAN'T work a match longer then 10 minutes or so. If HHH gets his 20-30 minute match with Goldberg it will expose him and the fans may turn on him like they did with Steiner.
"Sting hasn't closed the door on a WWE contract, supposely they have been negotiating for a while" - They have talked, on and off, for a while. I doubt Sting is anywhere close to coming in. Lex WON'T join WWE. He and Vince didn't part on good terms, he sucks in the ring, and no one wants to see him. You will never see Lex in a WWE ring again.
Hopefully Piper will only be back for that one run in. I really don't need to see Hogan/Piper again. If I want too I'll go watch a tap. Both are old, can't work, the fans don't really care. Just let Hogan retire with his win over Vince and leave Piper as the the WM susprise. WWE needs to stop trying to bring back its old stars like HBK, Hogan, Nash, Hall, Piper etc... and start pushing its young guys. Why they would have HBK, a guy whos not drawing any money and can only wrestler a hand of times a year over Jericho, one of the best all round preformers they have today is beyond me. They could helped make Jerichos a top level star yesterday but instead he was jobbed out and look like a second rate HBK. Same with RVD - heres a guy who every fans loves, who could carry that Raw show and title and hes stuck in a tag team with Kane, jobbing to Storm and Val on HEAT before the PPV. Its sad how they are misusing every bit of talent they have on Raw to push guys like HHH, Nash, Taker and HBK.
They also need to use OVW better. Nathan Jones could be a HUGE star if he they put in OVW and teach him to wrestle. They took him out of that match because his house show matchs have been TERRIBLE.
Billy Jack
03/31/2003, 18:44
actually I don't see why there can't be a happy medium on this. I mean I don't see why the wwe can't promote new stars and still use the veterans.*Shrugs* guess am on optimist.
I also think that as long as a wrestler can pull his wieght he should be allowed to work, flair can work great for being as old as he is so can regal. They're more old timers out there so I wont go off an rant . :D
anyhow I heard that piper wants to face hogan one more time for a retirment match and than call it quits. Don't know if this is true or not. One thing you can say about Piper though, he is the last wrestler who credibly used the sleeper hold as finisher. And when it comes to mic work piper is one of the best.
"actually I don't see why there can't be a happy medium on this. I mean I don't see why the wwe can't promote new stars and still use the veterans" - With a few (and very few) you can. Flair for example has no problem putting young guys over and taking a lesser role with the company. Hogan comes and in doesn't want to put young guys over, want to get the title again, wants his big runs ontop etc.... Its the egos that most of these older, big name guys have that prevents them from being useful. There is ALWAYS a spot for a wrestler on any roster, IF that wrestler is willing to take that spot. HBK/Jericho is a perfect example. WHY would they want to push HBK over Jericho? Its simple - HHH and HBK are friends, HHH got the finish that HBK wanted. Right now HBK should either be used as a manager or a mid-card comedy/nistalag act and used to put guys over. He shouldn't be beating a guy as talented as Jericho clean in the ring at Wrestl Mania. Same with Hogan and Nash.
"anyhow I heard that piper wants to face hogan one more time for a retirment match and than call it quits" - The problem is no one cares
"And when it comes to mic work piper is one of the best" - He used to be, hes just gone nuts know. His promos are pointless, he goes off on rants that have nothing to do with anything and (and this one really pisses me off) he brings Owen Hart up in almost of his promos in some reason. I really, really hope they just let Piper be a one time deal.
Is anyone else ticked that the Kane-RVD vs/ Storm-Morley match was pushed down to Heat? Aside from Morley, they all deserved to be on the PPV (especially Storm, who's one of the best wrestlers on the roster).
Billy Jack
04/01/2003, 20:25
I agree with Storm being under utilized, he's one of the few ecw guys that I actually like, (am an 80's mark so bare with me.) What ticks me off is that Dustin Rhodes/Goldust should be further ahead in the buisness than he is. I mean Goldie has difently the most entertainning gimmick next to Huricane Helms. Yeah Storm should be further ahead and so should Goldie.
Speaking of ECW guys, Raven should have gotten at least one decent push before being let go...
He could be a fantastic heel, psychologically attacking his opponents before beating them with fantastic high risk moves.
I mean even bringing back the Tommy Dreamer vs. Raven feud wouldn't have hurt.
Hehe, don't even get me started on Raven, he's easily one of my favorite wrestlers ever. The guy isn't the most technically sound wrestlers around but he busts his butt in matches and can get over a story in a way so many guys just can't manage anymore. On the mic he's one of the best. Even if you don't like the gimmick it's tough to deny he can bring a lot to a feud or match-up. During his banishment to Heat I watched that show religiously. He had a pretty decent feud with D-Lo Brown that went back and forth for awhile and was fun. Thankfully now that both guys are in NWA they are getting a better chance to be involved with angles and work matches that last longer than 2 minutes.
That's really my main problem with the WWE product as a whole right now, the utter lack of time devoted to wrestling. In a 2-4 minute match what can really be accomplished other than hitting a few spots and most likely a screwy ending? There is no time for any sort of drama to develop during these matches and most often the fueds focus on some issue completely irrelevent to the pseudo sport involving wins and losses. It's funny that as rating decline they try harder and harder to resort to "comedic" skits and shock angles as if it's still 1997 or something.
Despite some goofy gimmicks NWA has done a good job of making their titles something sought after and making it seem like there is a reason for wrestling in matches. Even more "garbagey" feds like XPW & CZW have their focus on whether wrestler A can defeat wrestler B. These feds have some pretty wacky gimmicks but the characters still want to be succesful in the ring, something very missing in WWE product.
More than anything this all makes me miss ECW, or at least the 99-2001 era of ECW I'm most familiar with. this was the point where I started watching their PPV shows and watching on TNN and I can't even explain how amazing this product was to those of you who missed it. There was a great mix of technical/high flyers (RVD, Storm, Jerry Lynn), brawlers (Tommy, Raven, Rhyno), and crazy guys (New Jack, Balls Mahoney, Masato Tanaka). The "regular" matches were high-speed intense affairs and the hardcore matches were usually pretty intense as well. Even if you weren't a fan of one style there would be other matches that would be more to your liking. If you find a copy of the documentary Beyond the Mat there is a speech Paul Heyman gives before their first PPV that sums things up perfectly. It was a place for the young guys to prove they have it or for the older castaways to prove they still had it. It was a home for the misfits and outcasts to work hard and put on an entertaining show. It was a place where wrestling was still important. Funny how Paul E was just demoted over at the WWE.
Undeniably ECW had the best product of the "Big Three" companies back when they were all head to head to head.
Out of all the wrestling shows I've been to or been involved with (XPW, Indies, WWE PPVs) ECW's Heatwave 2000 was the first show I went to and still the best by far...
I have the ticket stub autographed by RVD stating "1st ever Van-Terminator"
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