Mind Control w/ perplex or outwit

[ChromeWeasel]

Mind Control allows you to assign one action to the controlled character. Your control of the figure ends when the action ends. Since you can't use Outwit or Perplex during an action I'd say you cant use either of these powers on a Mind Controlled figure. Is there a ruling on this? It's not clarified in the FAQ.

[XocgX]

I'm not sure I follow....like say Moondragon MC's Mandarin....are you asking if Mandarin can now use his Outwit? Or if she chose to MC Doc Sampson, can he now perplex? Or can you perplex or outwit the person who is under the influence of MC? I can't see why you'd want to outwit your own guy, save maybe battle fury....but that means you can't be MC'ed....

[Tsannik]

Alrighty... say you have Prof X (Mind Control) and Doc Ock (Perplex) and you control my Doctor Doom (Perplex)

Once you MC Dr. Doom, you are able to use his Perplex only. Doc Ock would not be able to Perplex because it's in the middle of an action. I know that Doctor Doom's Perplex is also in themiddle of an action, but the MC's ability to use all of the victim's powers will supercede that.


Does this make sense?

[ChromeWeasel]

Lets say I Mind Control Doctor Octopus V. Can Doc Oc then Perplex his own damage up one and attack?

How about if I Mind Control a Doombot. Can I switch over a team ability during an action? Let's say he was adjacent to a figure I control with Xmen team ability. Can I switch Doombot to Xmen team and take a point of damage to heal the adjacent figure? The Xmen team ability requires a move action.

How about if I Mind Control Batman. Can I drop his Willpower (optional ability) and then push Batman with a move action for a click of damage?

Basically you can't do any of these things if you have to assign the action to the Mind Controlled character immediately. This isnt clear in the FAQ.

[Invis-slayer]

Additionally:
If you had the Prof X and the Doc Occ and the opponent had Doom, it would not work for you to use Occ to perplex Dooms damage up before you MC him, because as soon as he is the victim of the succesful MC the effects of the perplex are nulled.

Tsannik: Are you sure that a MC'ed fig can use thier perplex and outwit? I was always under the impression that this was not the case because as soon as the character is MC'ed it is given an action[and you cannot perp or outwit during an action]. I thought the wording of MC was just to clarify that you CAN use that figs powers such as prob control, BCF, RCE, etc

[Invis-slayer]

Chrome-weasel: You should for sure be able to do the X-men team ability one, as it takes an action for it to work. And the Batman one is cut and dry...if willpower is optional, then you can shut it off whenever you bloody well want to!

The first one is the one i am having trouble with

[Tsannik]

Lets say I Mind Control Doctor Octopus V. Can Doc Oc then Perplex his own damage up one and attack? This is legal, because MC will allow you to use his powers.
How about if I Mind Control a Doombot. Can I switch over a team ability during an action? Let's say he was adjacent to a figure I control with Xmen team ability. Can I switch Doombot to Xmen team and take a point of damage to heal the adjacent figure? The Xmen team ability requires a move action. This is legal for the same reason as stated above.
How about if I Mind Control Batman. Can I drop his Willpower (optional ability) and then push Batman with a move action for a click of damage?Legal.
If you had the Prof X and the Doc Occ and the opponent had Doom, it would not work for you to use Occ to perplex Dooms damage up before you MC him, because as soon as he is the victim of the succesful MC the effects of the perplex are nulled.This is not correct. This would work. The only time the Perplex would be nulled is if the figure took a click of healing, took a click of damage or it's the end of the current turn.

All this is legal as per this entry from the FAQ:
• When a figure is Mind Controlled, all its powers and abilities are at the controller’s disposal, even if the owning player had turned off optional ones before the Mind Control attack.

Does this answer?

[HeroComplex]

Yes, the MCed figure can use Outwit/Perplex before being assigned their MC action. Your control of the figure ends when they have completed that action, and no other figure can do anything while he is MCed. However, there is still time prior to assigning the MC action wherein the MCed character can use these instantaneous actionless powers.

Perplex fades when the figure is damaged or healed, so unless a critical hit is rolled on the MC attempt, there is no reason that Perplex would be automatically negated.

[Oblivion]

I tend to look at it this way: Prof. X rolls to MC Taskmaster and does. At this point I say Prof X's "ACTION" is complete, the action was the the attack roll to mc, once that has occured Prof. X is technically done. Now it shifts to the action you are going to assign Taskmaster, since you can assign Outwit or Perplex before or after an action, you can use Taskmaster to perpelx his attack up by one, then take his action which could be to attack.
Don't forget the FAQ says: When a figure is Mind Controlled, all its Powers and abilities are at the controller’s disposal, even if the owning player had turned off optional ones before the Mind Control attack.

[ChromeWeasel]

When a figure is Mind Controlled, all its powers and abilities are at the controller’s disposal, even if the owning player had turned off optional ones before the Mind Control attack.

I'm not sure this is what they intended by that item. Just because a power is available doesnt mean it's legal to use it. You can't normally use a power like Perplex or Outwit during an action and this doesnt specifically refute an existing rule. They are more specific that a power that was turned off can be used, like Super Strength. Has you talked to a Wizkids official about it? To me this still needs to be clarified in the FAQ.

If you are correct, you could Mind Control Black Panther R and use his Outwit on your opponent. This would nullify anything your opponent previously outwitted as well.

[Tsannik]

If you are correct, you could Mind Control Black Panther R and use his Outwit on your opponent. This would nullify anything your opponent previously outwitted as well.

Well, yes and no...

Yes, you would be able to use his Outwit.. which would end at the beginning of your next turn.

No, it would not cancel out a previous Outwit, but exist at the same time until it normally ends.

Does this clear it up?

[ChromeWeasel]

"Well, yes and no...

Yes, you would be able to use his Outwit.. which would end at the beginning of your next turn.

No, it would not cancel out a previous Outwit, but exist at the same time until it normally ends.

Does this clear it up?"

Ok, I see that one. You'd be able to turn off his Outwit to get your Outwitted power back, or you could use it for yourself and that would last until your next turn. It struck me as odd that you'd be able to Outwit two powers simultaneously with the same Outwit but it makes sense according to the definition.

I'd still like to know if your interpretation of the that Mind Control bullet in the FAQ is handed down from the officials or based on personal judgement. I can see how you'd rule it that way but I also think it could be just as easily be ruled otherwise. It's a pretty big difference in Mind Control's application.

Either way, thanks for the tips.

[Tsannik]

That bullet is an actual FAQ entry from the Marvel FAQ 14MAR03.

[ChromeWeasel]

I realize that the bullet is official. What I was asking is if your interpretation of the bullet is official via Wizkids. Your interpretation contradicts other rulings that you can't use a power of team ability during an action (other than Probabillity Control).

For example, lets say I Mind Control Puppetmaster. I then want to use Puppetmaster to Mind Control another figure. The target is 7 squares away. I shouldnt be able to use Mind Control in this case because the rules state that Puppetmaster's range is 4 in this case. Does it matter that the FAQ says I have access to all Puppetmaster's powers? The existing rules should still be followed and that means, in this case, the target is out of range. Yes, Mind Control is at my disposal, but the rules don't allow me to make use of this power.

It should be the same for Perplex and Outwit. Once I Mind Control a character all his powers are at my disposal. But the rules also say that I can't use these powers during an action. There's nothing to specifically refute that in the FAQ. Just like you have to respect the range limitation with an attack, you have to respect a timing limitation with a power.

Maybe they worded this poorly, but I'm not sure the intended goal in that bullet was to allow you to use Perplex, Outwit, or Team Abilities DURING an action. It looks more like they want to be sure you can use optional abilities that were 'turned off' to me.

[HeroComplex]

The quick answer is that, yes, this is the official ruling. Perplex and Outwit may be used by the MCed figure, and only by the MCed figure, directly before the MCed action begins.