Alternate Rules interest?

[tyroclix]

I realize some people are happy with Star Trek's 100% rules compatibility. This is not the thread for you.

This is for players who wanted a lot more from Star Trek than just HeroClix. Some of us wanted its own defining system to set it apart.

After seeing the latest previews of ships, I got inspired and jotted down some quick ideas to make the game more ship to ship combat and less HeroClix slugfest.

I am aware these ideas are not 100% thought out nor will they be free of criticism, I just wanted to share to see what we could all drum up because I really wanted to buy into this game and without new rules, I can't.

[tyroclix]

Here are a few Rule ideas - please note, the vast majority of the game would play exactly the same as HeroClix with these "Tactical" rule changes.

1) No Close Combat attacks are made - ships don't punch. See new PAC for power changes

2) No need to breakaway - just step on the gas.

3) All ships can make ranged attacks even when adjacent.

4) Targeting a ship that is not the closest opposing ship gives you a -1 modifier to your attack - this allows for tactical positioning

5) When a ship is KO'd (destroyed) roll a 2d6. If the result is less than the click number of the KO, deal 1 damage to all ships within 5 squares. Ships explode, don't they? Makes for exciting moments.

6) Here is the biggie: Collision
When a ship moves adjacent to another ship, each captain will roll a 1d6.
If the results are equal, both ships are dealt 2 damage each.
If the results are not equal, the higher roll is dealt 0 damage and the lower roll is deal 1 damage.

Thoughts?

[tyroclix]

Movement Powers:

:m-wing: - Running Shot = same

:m-wing: - HSS = same

:m-wing: - Charge = no knockback dealt, moving half speed does not deal Collision damage until movement ends. Ships would be able to move past adjacent ships without causing a collision.

:m-wing: - Flurry = Ships can make 2 ranged attacks at -1 to attack and damage on the second attack.

:m-wing: - Phasing= same except no Collisions caused unless ship stops adjacent to another ship

:m-wing: - Mind Control = same. I like the idea of hacking into a computer system and taking control.

:m-wing: - Plasticity = Ships ignore other ships when determining Line of Fire.

:m-wing: - Force Blast = same but up to half range

:m-wing: - Stealth = Cannot have Line of Fire drawn to it 6 or more squares away.

:m-wing: = Leap/Climb = When this ship targets an opposing ship that is not the closest opposing ship to itself, do not modify its attack value by -1.

[tyroclix]

Attack Powers:

:a-fist: BCF = roll a 1d6 for damage for ranged attacks at half range value

:a-fist:EE - same but splash is dealt up to 2 squares away

:a-fist: Pulse Wave = same

:a-fist: Quake = Pulse-Wave but reducible

:a-fist: Super-Strength = When this ship moves a friendly ship within 4 spaces can move 2 spaces as a free action but cannot move adjacent to another ship when it does.

:a-fist: Incap = same

:a-fist: Psy-Blast = same

:a-fist: Smoke Cloud = same

:a-fist: Poison = deals 1 extra damage during a collision

:a-fist: Steal Energy = heal when damage opposing ship

:a-fist: TK = same

[tyroclix]

Defensive Powers:

:d-normal: Super-Senses = same

:d-normal: Toughness = same

:d-normal: Defend = This ship becomes targeted when another friendly ship with 4 would be targeted for an attack.

:d-normal: Combat Reflexes = +1 to 1d6 Collision Roll

:d-normal: Energy Shield / Deflection = same

:d-normal: Barrier = same

:d-normal: Mastermind = when hit by an attack this ship can choose to have the damage given to a friendly ship within 4 squares of it.

:d-normal: Impervious = same

:d-normal: Invulnerability = same

:d-normal: Regeneration = same

:d-normal: Willpower - same

[tyroclix]

Damage Powers:

:g-starburst: Ranged Combat Expert = same

:g-starburst: Battle Fury = +2 movement, +1 collision damage dealt, no ranged attacks allowed

:g-starburst: Support = X-Men / Teen Titans TA within 3 squares

:g-starburst: Exploit Weakness = collisions deal penetrating damage

:g-starburst: Enhancement = boost range value of a friendly ship or +1 to ranged damage of friendly ship within 3 squares

:g-starburst: Prob Control = same

:g-starburst: Shape-Change = same

:g-starburst: Close-Combat Expert = ranged damage is penetrating when at half range value

:g-starburst: Perplex = same

:g-starburst: Outwit = same

:g-starburst: Leadership = same but works within 4 squares for clearing

[tyroclix]

I look forward to hearing your thoughts. One thing I offer, check out these ships when viewed through the prism of the above idea.

trek010 R U.S.S. Reliant
Team: Federation
Range: 6 :bolt::bolt:
Points: 75
Keywords: Federation, Scientist
m-winga-fistd-shieldg-starburst8916289162710162791516915168151KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Speed) Genesis Testing: U.S.S. Reliant can use Charge. Give U.S.S. Reliant a power action; remove from the map up to three blocking or hindering terrain markers within 6 squares. If you remove at least one marker in this way, U.S.S. Reliant can then use Smoke Cloud as a free action.

trek026 V U.S.S. Reliant
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 8 :bolt:
Points: 75
Keywords: Augment, Warrior
m-winga-fistd-shieldg-starburst10101721091626915169151691516816168161KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Special) Ceti Eels: If U.S.S. Reliant misses with a close combat attack, after actions resolve you may use Mind Control as a free action targeting the same target.

trek102 R U.S.S. Rhode Island
Team: Federation
Range: 8 :bolt::bolt:
Points: 125
Keywords: Federation, Scientist
m-winga-fistd-shieldg-starburst11917310916310916399173910173810172810162810162KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

trek104 U I.K.S. Bortas
Team: Klingon Empire
Range: 10 :bolt:
Points: 100
Keywords: Flagship, Klingon, Warrior
m-winga-fistd-shieldg-starburst8101728101638916279152711162711172711181KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

[Mikesim]

I like these changes, especially with Super-Strength acting as a tractor beam of sorts. Nicely done!

[Deoxys65]

Here are a few Rule ideas - please note, the vast majority of the game would play exactly the same as HeroClix with these "Tactical" rule changes.

1) No Close Combat attacks are made - ships don't punch. See new PAC for power changes

2) No need to breakaway - just step on the gas.

3) All ships can make ranged attacks even when adjacent.

4) Targeting a ship that is not the closest opposing ship gives you a -1 modifier to your attack - this allows for tactical positioning

5) When a ship is KO'd (destroyed) roll a 2d6. If the result is less than the click number of the KO, deal 1 damage to all ships within 5 squares. Ships explode, don't they? Makes for exciting moments.

6) Here is the biggie: Collision
When a ship moves adjacent to another ship, each captain will roll a 1d6.
If the results are equal, both ships are dealt 2 damage each.
If the results are not equal, the higher roll is dealt 0 damage and the lower roll is deal 1 damage.

Thoughts?

I must say, I'm liking all of these :grin: With the added one of Super Strength being like a tractor beam since I've never seen a transporter beam a whole ship anywhere :ermm: So that would rule out Phase/Teleport to me.

[CarlosMucha]

I like the ideas!

[tyroclix]

Thanks for the feedback. Tweaks are certainly needed but I was curious how much interest there would be in some kind of modified rules to try and give a ship to ship miniature game its own identity.

[BigSoph]

Since the ships have an obvious front and rear, based on their orientation, why not use that?

You could have Quake be a pulse wave along one face (usually out the front)

You also need some rule for damage control, maybe a ship can take a power action to heal one click (for this game, Regen can be minimum 1)

You could also find a way to allow ships to fire past an enemy but a power could become shield (i.e. you are protecting the other ship)

[BigSoph]

Suggestion on Battle Fury

At the beginning of the game or when this power is revealed, choose a sworn enemy. When attacking the chosen foe, this character can use Masters of Evil TA

[tyroclix]

Suggestion on Battle Fury

At the beginning of the game or when this power is revealed, choose a sworn enemy. When attacking the chosen foe, this character can use Masters of Evil TA

Thats cool. What about if you get a +1 to damage when targeting the chosen ship instead?

Another idea- you have to target the nearest ship OR maybe attack the last ship that attacked you?

[BigSoph]

Thats cool. What about if you get a +1 to damage when targeting the chosen ship instead?

Another idea- you have to target the nearest ship OR maybe attack the last ship that attacked you?

The reason I said MoE rather than a bonus is to reflect the less than rational approach the attacker is taking under Battle Fury

I direct you to Khan as he began the Genesis Device countdown and uttered the immortal lines, "To the last, I will grapple with thee... from Hell's heart, I stab at thee! For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee!"

In other words, I don't care if I die, just as long as I take you with me

Edit: Reliant (Khan) needs Battle Fury on the last two clicks as part of an SP that still allows him to use PW

[tyroclix]

The reason I said MoE rather than a bonus is to reflect the less than rational approach the attacker is taking under Battle Fury

I direct you to Khan as he began the Genesis Device countdown and uttered the immortal lines, "To the last, I will grapple with thee... from Hell's heart, I stab at thee! For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee!"

In other words, I don't care if I die, just as long as I take you with me

Edit: Reliant (Khan) needs Battle Fury on the last two clicks as part of an SP that still allows him to use PW

I got you and makes sense. I think "Masters of Evil" turned me off but with the wording being what the MoE does (or like colossals do) that would makes sense.

Or do you think giving "ships" the colossal continue to attack and take damage as a result might be better for all ships or just special to Battle Fury?

[BigSoph]

I got you and makes sense. I think "Masters of Evil" turned me off but with the wording being what the MoE does (or like colossals do) that would makes sense.

Or do you think giving "ships" the colossal continue to attack and take damage as a result might be better for all ships or just special to Battle Fury?

Personally? Just BF

It is the scaling

Some characters could even be scaled. Silver Age Superman is the 150 point version of SM001, Black Adam is the 100 point version

Didn't even think of Colossals pushing but it hurts ability, that works too!

[Eryx_UK]

I really like these changes to the powers. Close combat really doesn't seem right for a game like this, even though I guess it represents boarding actions.

I shall point these out to my fellow ST clix player and see if he'll give them a try.

[phoenixhawk]

When it comes to the rules, there are a few things in HC rules that don't make much sense for Star Trek play. Taking damage from pushing for only movement is a rule I don't use. Still pick up the 2nd token, but no damage...just doesn't make sense. Ships can move through space without taking damage.

I'm not a big fan of the close combat thing either, and think that ships should be able to target whatever they want.

Moving and shooting is almost a must.

I don't like most of the "attack" powers like the explosion thing or the incapacitate. So I ignore them.

I would also like to see the option for self-destruct and ramming speed.

And higher damage values, especially for the bigger or more powerful ships.

Overall, I would like to see a Star Trek-specific ruleset developed for Tactics, and forget about making the game compatible with the regular HC stuff. Most people don't mix the two anyway.

Chris