Ep. 98: Galactic Colossals and Hypersonic

[ibeatdrew]

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=95&pictureid=7712Galactic Colossals and Hypersonic.This week Steve and Gudda talk with little enthusiasm about the Colossal figures coming up in Galactic Guardians. Sorry guys, They make up for it in a heated debate about Hypersonic though. Lainee also interrupts the podcast 2-3 times. Been a rough week!P3adfed87a5f7910ce980ec342030ccc1Yl5wS1REZGV1

[ibeatdrew]

Would have edited out the "Me freaking out about Lainee" parts, but I wanted to get this online and I didn't have the time to work on it and didn't want this to site for a week. Also Gudda uses some slight language but nothing worse than what you may find on the FOX network.

[hanzoslash]

That was quick on the turnaround time since last one. Looking forward to it.

Now to listen....

[ibeatdrew]

That was quick on the turnaround time since last one. Looking forward to it.

Now to listen....

LOL...they used to be mainly weekly....we are trying to get back to that schedule.

[VanTheMan]

Enjoyed it, thanks!

[Nugattiknight]

On the hypersonic debate, i think that the no auto break away would make it a lot more fun to play against.

I'm not sure how the rulings would work, but on the fluff(backstory/comicwise) it makes about as much sense as flying characters needing break away.
This is a game, there will always be things that doesn't make sense. But, there doesn't need to be unfun(my opinion) things.

This is just my thoughts on what I think would make the game better.

[anonym0use]

A couple of errors/things I noted...

1.) Gudda refers to "killing" figures. There is no killing in this game. Characters are KO'd, not killed. This is a kids game. :p

B.) Your theme song is immoral and unethical, and it promotes unsportsmanlike behavior. Rules should not be broken. Please, listeners, watch out for Steve & Gudda at the venue, because they admit to taking time thinking about the rules they'll have to break.

And finally... All this talk of Hypersonic is moot. Gudda's heart is in the right place (:cheeky:), but he needs to redirect it NOT to HSS but to the swim ability.

Consider how ridiculously useless the ability is, not to mention comic inaccurate.

1.) Oliver Queen. Hawkeye. The Battlin' Bowmen. What else do they have in common besides a bow, arrow, and pretty bird themed kung-fu girlfriends?

Both move the EXACT same speed through bushes, shrubs, hedges, etc as they do through water.

Apparently, both are amazing olympic level swimmers that also have no problem treading water AND firing arrows at the same time. :noid:

Now consider Aquaman, or Namor (you guys are Marvel, so I include them for your sake). If any of these Kings of the Seven Seas happen to be right next to either Bowmen while both occupy water terrain, the rulers of Atlantis MUST roll breakaway.

To recap. Clint Barton is floating in the harbor, kicking his legs, trying not to let his ammunition slip into the deep. Namor, right next to him, can't AUTOMATICALLY break away from the floundering fool? How does that make any sense?

Namor, Aquaman...whoever, should be able to DIVE DEEP, duck dive or otherwise power-stroke their way past these air breathing buffoons.

Now it is apparent the ability needs a tweak (it's not like there's any maps with water terrain anyway, right?). While I mentioned the oddity of Hawkeye and Green Arrow firing their bows while trying to stay afloat, I'd never suggest taking away ranged attack.

That would be almost as ridiculous as a Hydra Agent tripping the Flash.

No instead I propose the following:

Change #1:

Characters with the :m-dolphin: or :m-dolphin-trans: ability ignore water terrain for movement purposes. When moving in water terrain, these characters ignore characters that do not have the :m-dolphin: or :m-dolphin-trans: for movement purposes.

Change #2:
When LoF is drawn to characters with the :m-dolphin: or :m-dolphin-trans: that also occupy water terrain, those characters treat water terrain as hindering terrain for LoF purposes (porpoises?).

Change #1 makes the flippers masters of their element. Note the inability to auto-break from other swimmers keeps the upgrade reigned in (and accurate - Tiger Shark *would* have a hard time breaking away from King Shark).

Change #2 basically gives the swimmers a small bonus to ranged defense, and lets water terrain count as hindering terrain for Stealth (think: Atlantean generics).

I'm not entirely sold on Change #2, but only because it feels too weak (IMO). In fact, I think it might be better if LoF was halved to :m-dolphin: & :m-dolphin-trans: when they're in the drink, but that starts getting too complex. I'd even settle for:

Alternate Change #2 :m-dolphin: & :m-dolphin-trans: can use Stealth while occupying Water terrain and treat water terrain as hindering terrain when LoF is drawn to them.

However, that last change is pretty powerful and would likely upset the point balance.

That is, unless we get some maps with actual water on them any time soon. ;) *HINT*

[Murker]

I agree it would make the game more fun if hss needed to break away and it sounds semi comic accepted also some of the character dials are not in line so why does hss have to be

[AgentP]

I really like your two suggestions for improved the swimming ability!


A couple of errors/things I noted...

1.) Gudda refers to "killing" figures. There is no killing in this game. Characters are KO'd, not killed. This is a kids game. :p

B.) Your theme song is immoral and unethical, and it promotes unsportsmanlike behavior. Rules should not be broken. Please, listeners, watch out for Steve & Gudda at the venue, because they admit to taking time thinking about the rules they'll have to break.

And finally... All this talk of Hypersonic is moot. Gudda's heart is in the right place (:cheeky:), but he needs to redirect it NOT to HSS but to the swim ability.

Consider how ridiculously useless the ability is, not to mention comic inaccurate.

1.) Oliver Queen. Hawkeye. The Battlin' Bowmen. What else do they have in common besides a bow, arrow, and pretty bird themed kung-fu girlfriends?

Both move the EXACT same speed through bushes, shrubs, hedges, etc as they do through water.

Apparently, both are amazing olympic level swimmers that also have no problem treading water AND firing arrows at the same time. :noid:

Now consider Aquaman, or Namor (you guys are Marvel, so I include them for your sake). If any of these Kings of the Seven Seas happen to be right next to either Bowmen while both occupy water terrain, the rulers of Atlantis MUST roll breakaway.

To recap. Clint Barton is floating in the harbor, kicking his legs, trying not to let his ammunition slip into the deep. Namor, right next to him, can't AUTOMATICALLY break away from the floundering fool? How does that make any sense?

Namor, Aquaman...whoever, should be able to DIVE DEEP, duck dive or otherwise power-stroke their way past these air breathing buffoons.

Now it is apparent the ability needs a tweak (it's not like there's any maps with water terrain anyway, right?). While I mentioned the oddity of Hawkeye and Green Arrow firing their bows while trying to stay afloat, I'd never suggest taking away ranged attack.

That would be almost as ridiculous as a Hydra Agent tripping the Flash.

No instead I propose the following:

Change #1:

Characters with the :m-dolphin: or :m-dolphin-trans: ability ignore water terrain for movement purposes. When moving in water terrain, these characters ignore characters that do not have the :m-dolphin: or :m-dolphin-trans: for movement purposes.

Change #2:
When LoF is drawn to characters with the :m-dolphin: or :m-dolphin-trans: that also occupy water terrain, those characters treat water terrain as hindering terrain for LoF purposes (porpoises?).

Change #1 makes the flippers masters of their element. Note the inability to auto-break from other swimmers keeps the upgrade reigned in (and accurate - Tiger Shark *would* have a hard time breaking away from King Shark).

Change #2 basically gives the swimmers a small bonus to ranged defense, and lets water terrain count as hindering terrain for Stealth (think: Atlantean generics).

I'm not entirely sold on Change #2, but only because it feels too weak (IMO). In fact, I think it might be better if LoF was halved to :m-dolphin: & :m-dolphin-trans: when they're in the drink, but that starts getting too complex. I'd even settle for:

Alternate Change #2 :m-dolphin: & :m-dolphin-trans: can use Stealth while occupying Water terrain and treat water terrain as hindering terrain when LoF is drawn to them.

However, that last change is pretty powerful and would likely upset the point balance.

That is, unless we get some maps with actual water on them any time soon. ;) *HINT*

[DemonRS]

Good clixcast, enjoyable as always.... except the coughing into the mic was like an assault on my ears each time it happened.

[ibeatdrew]

Good clixcast, enjoyable as always.... except the coughing into the mic was like an assault on my ears each time it happened.

Sorry for that. I blame my new super sensitive mic. I pulled like 2 feet away every time and it still picked it up. UGH! I hope to be over my cold by next weeks cast.

[ibeatdrew]

About breakway. Why not leave it a roll off. LOL.

Think about it. If I want to leave base contact with you, we would both be struggling, me trying to get away, you trying to hold me there. SO we both roll a 1d6. The higher roll wins.

JK. I stand by what is, is. I don't think much needs changed and it also goes along with what I have always said about DC/Marvel Heroclix. Most of the power is always in DC. Look up Hypersonic in the Units, it's heavily on DC characters.

Glad you guys enjoyed the podcast, except the coughing and hopefully Gudda and I can argue more often.

[ibeatdrew]

A couple of errors/things I noted...

1.) Gudda refers to "killing" figures. There is no killing in this game. Characters are KO'd, not killed. This is a kids game. :p

B.) Your theme song is immoral and unethical, and it promotes unsportsmanlike behavior. Rules should not be broken. Please, listeners, watch out for Steve & Gudda at the venue, because they admit to taking time thinking about the rules they'll have to break.



I assume you are semi joking. As we would never knowingly cheat. ;)

[ibeatdrew]

On the hypersonic debate, i think that the no auto break away would make it a lot more fun to play against.

I'm not sure how the rulings would work, but on the fluff(backstory/comicwise) it makes about as much sense as flying characters needing break away.
This is a game, there will always be things that doesn't make sense. But, there doesn't need to be unfun(my opinion) things.

This is just my thoughts on what I think would make the game better.

If I remember correctly and I could be TOTALLY WRONG on this, after all I am getting old and it has been a few years, but flyers at one point did not need to break away either. Again I could be TOTALLY WRONG, looking for a rules junkie to correct me on this post.

[dringopingo]

I like the idea of HSS having to break away against plasticity it would be an easy tweak to implement a slight nerf to HSS & slight boost to Plasticity which is a power I don't really consider when I'm team building at the moment.
I also like anonymouse's idea giving swimmers auto break away from non swimmers in water terrain. How about though rather than a stealth power more a energy shield/combat reflexes power vs non swimmers.

[DemonRS]

Sorry for that. I blame my new super sensitive mic. I pulled like 2 feet away every time and it still picked it up. UGH! I hope to be over my cold by next weeks cast.

No worries dude, just telling you my thoughts.
I could tell yo had a new better mic though (since it was much higher audio quality on your end).

Does our new mic have a mute option?


I like the idea of HSS having to break away against plasticity it would be an easy tweak to implement a slight nerf to HSS & slight boost to Plasticity which is a power I don't really consider when I'm team building at the moment.
I also like anonymouse's idea giving swimmers auto break away from non swimmers in water terrain. How about though rather than a stealth power more a energy shield/combat reflexes power vs non swimmers.

I also think it wouldn't hurt to have L/C people's movement not apply to water terrain, making water terrain only easily crossed by HSS, fliers, and swimmers.
Makes sense, fliers are above water, HSS are for those fast runners that have consistently shown they can run on the water, and swimmers are self explanitory.

[Morgan13]

Good idea's everyone, lets use some of mouses logic and apply it HHS, make it that 2 adjacent HHS clixs would roll to break away as normal. It kinda defeats the purpose of the way HSS is used currently but it would definitely change the tactics for the future. Plus i like the plasticity idea's that power could be tweaked

[TurboCretin]

We house rule figs with Gotham City as either Gotham City Hero, Gotham City Villain or both (eg. Catwoman).

Same deal with Metropolis.

[Owlman166]

Meh, podcast was ok. Sorry, but I think Jay and Rob are going to upstage you guys with their up and coming podcasts;

[DemonRS]

Good idea's everyone, lets use some of mouses logic and apply it HHS, make it that 2 adjacent HHS clixs would roll to break away as normal. It kinda defeats the purpose of the way HSS is used currently but it would definitely change the tactics for the future. Plus i like the plasticity idea's that power could be tweaked

I do like the idea of 2 hss characters having to break away from each other.
Certainly turns some of those cheaper hss figures with 1 damage into strategic tie up pieces.


HSS shouldn't break away automatically from HSS or plasticity.
Frankly I don't think L/C should auto break away either, but would settle for it being at least tied up by plasticity as well. I mean how many times have we seen someone who's game pieces are portrayed with leap climb try to get away and then get grabbed and slammed right back into the fray.

[gudda]

I agree two HSS guys and no break away makes the most sense , but for simplicity I said no free break away for HSS at all. This is because there are 3 powers that totaly ignore break away. I think this should be reduced to one. Phasing. Leap climb should be +1 to break away, plasticity is +2 (-2 to opponents break away) that's my break away break down.

Dolphin symbol does need tweeking. I'll start working up that rant

Thanks for listening

[ibeatdrew]

Meh, podcast was ok. Sorry, but I think Jay and Rob are going to upstage you guys with their up and coming podcasts;

Cool beans!

[DemonRS]

I agree two HSS guys and no break away makes the most sense , but for simplicity I said no free break away for HSS at all. This is because there are 3 powers that totaly ignore break away. I think this should be reduced to one. Phasing. Leap climb should be +1 to break away, plasticity is +2 (-2 to opponents break away) that's my break away break down.

Dolphin symbol does need tweeking. I'll start working up that rant

Thanks for listening

I do like that +1 +2 etc..
Though it'll never happen since it over complicates things.. At least as far as WK would see..
Though really I think it'd be a great way to do things.
I wouldn't want HSS to have it's break away taken away from it though.. I'd rather see it not appear on heavy hitters like superman and instead give them full move charge..

But I've always pictured HSS being the super fast moving people like Quicksilver and the flash, or the teleporters whom are here one second and over there the next (nightcrawler).

when Superman got HSS (thanks OWAW superman for starting the trend!) things went down a bad slope.

[hof]

wow... Its sims that alot of people have been burned by ALL STAR SUPERMAN. Thats why I can SEE worlds being (2) Superman @ 150 = WIN....LOL At my venue we made him a Unique because we saw that team alot. GREAT cast GUYS Gudda sending you a package at the end of this week check your pms later this week!!! HOF OUT (I'm on Steve's side minus 2 attack or 2 to damage)

[anonym0use]

Dolphin symbol does need tweeking. I'll start working up that rant

Thanks for listening

Hooray! :m-dolphin::m-dolphin-trans::m-dolphin::m-dolphin-trans::m-dolphin::m-dolphin-trans:

(now just knock off the killing and the cheating...)

[DemonRS]

OH also wanted to add that the idea of a mastermold map would be pretty interesting.. Could make some auto run scenario of it too.

You could always re-purpose an event dial for the map to give it "clicks of life" with damage reducers, with no attack or movement or damage.. Just to keep track of how long a life Mastermold has.

Roll a dice and put out 100 points x die roll of sentinels..
mmm that'd be a nasty fun home game to play!

[Morgan13]

you could also make the argument that any two characters that have mirrored speed symbols would have to roll to break away, it doesn't seem that complicated to us but i see the rules may become hazey, does it make sense that batroc can get away from batman, or what was pointed out earlier between two swimmers? Hss should be able to get away from nightwing or black widow, The Flash should not be able to get away from captian cold that has plasticity easily. I personally don't play hss vs. anyone that's new to the game, its discouraging imo. I'm not advocating taking away away hss breaking away altogether just in two scenarios

[Slade Wilson]

I agree it would make the game more fun if hss needed to break away and it sounds semi comic accepted also some of the character dials are not in line so why does hss have to be

I agree! It may not be 100% comic accurate, but it does provide a balance to the game. i would even be ok with them making a break away roll as afree action.

[vamroc]

I just wish charactors with Hypersonic Speed could ignore Hindering terrain, Water Terrain, and attack charactors who occupy elevated terrain.
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/11352/765101-drround2two.jpg

http://www.comicbookbin.com/artman2/uploads/5/flash.jpg


To me it's pretty dumb that a charactor who has repeatedly leaped over cars, run up the side of a building, and run across the surface of oceans has to stop when he hits a rough patch of grass.

[Illuminati]

just keep hypersonic like it is but after u make the attack you stop, u can break away and move like 9 squares then have to stop, just my suggestion

[ChiyoChan]

Maybe I am in kinda agreement because the answer to hypersonic is leaving the modern age tourney soon. Nightcrawler becomes king of his own little world now we will have to see how bad it gets at Origins.

[Illuminati]

Really the prob with HS is how people have abused it, running and hiding has made lots of people hate the power

[DemonRS]

Maybe I am in kinda agreement because the answer to hypersonic is leaving the modern age tourney soon. Nightcrawler becomes king of his own little world now we will have to see how bad it gets at Origins.

The problem would stop itself if they stopped putting it on stupidly strong hard hitters.

[Glen Quagmire]

Any thoughts of having "Drew" himself as a podcast guest? :laugh:

[gudda]

With special powers super man like people could easily be given a full move charge. If you do a search of modern age hypersononic majority are people like super man.

[DemonRS]

With special powers super man like people could easily be given a full move charge. If you do a search of modern age hypersononic majority are people like super man.

they could solve the whole thing (and make KC shazam worth his points) by saying, "no ranged combat with HSS"

That'd hurt a lot less figures than the abusive play of the ranged combat monsters with hss tend to do..

That was the intent of half range, which pretty well crippled the use of the weaker ranged combatant oriented HSS'ers anyway..

[ibeatdrew]

Any thoughts of having "Drew" himself as a podcast guest? :laugh:

What "Drew" are you referring to?

[vamroc]

The problem would stop itself if they stopped putting it on stupidly strong hard hitters.

It's a simple matter of physics the faster an object travels the more kinetic energy is released when that object strikes another object. So if anything a charactor using HSS should get a bonus to damage.

E=MC2 there is just no getting around it

So should charactors who have Super Strength move slower than charactor's who don't? Of course not they have Strength far beyond that of normal people which means they can move WAY faster than normal people and that speed translates into more damage.

[Illuminati]

I say just make it full movement charge and free breakaway, that's it no ranged attacks no movement after the attack

[hanzoslash]

To "fix" hypersonic, I would agree that auto breakaway should not be part of the power. A +2 to break away would be justifiable for Hypersonic Speed and Leap/Climb. Only Phasing/Teleport should have auto breakaway.

[DemonRS]

It's a simple matter of physics the faster an object travels the more kinetic energy is released when that object strikes another object. So if anything a charactor using HSS should get a bonus to damage.

E=MC2 there is just no getting around it

So should charactors who have Super Strength move slower than charactor's who don't? Of course not they have Strength far beyond that of normal people which means they can move WAY faster than normal people and that speed translates into more damage.

You did not just try to bring physics into a game about superheroes which defy all conventions of physics did you??

By your statement then someone with charge should get bonus damage too..

And how does E=MC^2 factor in to someone who can fire rays of heat from their eyes (which should not be making any more physical impact with your body then the rays of the sun, although frequently depicted as being greater). They certainly should see their beams being stronger running and gunning like that right?

I stand by my claims if most HSS'ers topped out at 2-3 damage there'd be a whole lot less complaining.

[cassius335]

I agree two HSS guys and no break away makes the most sense , but for simplicity I said no free break away for HSS at all. This is because there are 3 powers that totaly ignore break away. I think this should be reduced to one. Phasing. Leap climb should be +1 to break away, plasticity is +2 (-2 to opponents break away) that's my break away break down.

What did Leap/Climb ever do to you that you would hurt it so? It's not a broken power (is it?). With auto-breakaway it makes a nice "Run Away" power. Don't change it just because...

And listening to your comments on Gotham City as I type. Now there's a keyword that needs breaking in half...

[RocketRaccoon]

I loved the podcast, like all the rest, but it seemed like y'all were.... Snapping at eachother? Idk. Still, Love the Cast ^_^

[Clixkilla]

That podcast sucked. As a HUGE (no pun intended) of colossals, I felt like the new colossals were treated lke crap. I mean, of course if guys didn't like them, that's your opinion and you are more than entitled to that, but you just kinda "this guy sucks", "this base is stupid", "why do we need this". I usually look forward to the podcast but this time it seemed like you didn't care. Just saying. . .

[gudda]

That podcast sucked. As a HUGE (no pun intended) of colossals, I felt like the new colossals were treated lke crap. I mean, of course if guys didn't like them, that's your opinion and you are more than entitled to that, but you just kinda "this guy sucks", "this base is stupid", "why do we need this". I usually look forward to the podcast but this time it seemed like you didn't care. Just saying. . .



I think what has happened is that I was more exceited for the colossals than the regular figures in this set. I think I built them up in my mind to an unacheivable level that when revealed left me dissapointed. I dont blame the colossals just my expectations. I was so impressed by the GSX colossals. I love dormamu , and Gigato , really just wish they would have take this chance to just have the One Colossal sized base (2x2). I would have preffered a toned down big G , I understand that Mastermold would have been difficult to do in the 2x2 so i guess its a wash FOR NOW.

[Deoxys65]

Thanks for a good podcast, I was able to listen with my son (with a warning :confused:) and we had the very same discussion about HSS.

But he's 10 and regularly runs Superman so HSS was all good with him and needed no changes, lol.

As for me, I'm kinda "eh" about it. It is what it is.

I'd honestly rather see Charge and Running Shot get full movement than HSS to be restricted. That would even the playing field if I can full speed Charge or RS and chase down the HSS character after they hit and run.;)

[TH0MAS5]

really just wish they would have take this chance to just have the One Colossal sized base (2x2).

You do know that some Colossals are bigger than others right?

Like Colossals are bigger than Giants.

And like a large Fig on a peanut base is usually larger than a single base.

So a bigger Colossal would be on a bigger base than a smaller Colossal.


Colossals should be able to Carry regular figs and be able to punch two
squares away like a Giant can.

They are Colossal because their bodies take up so much room.
If their bodies take up more room than a Giant,
then their arms should also be longer than a Giant's.




Swimmers deserve another bonus than what they get now.


Mind Control should also give a Token to the target when actions over.


Plasticity should give Hypersonic and L/C a 50 % chance to breakaway.





When you talked about a Non-generic Theme Team sharing the same Printed Team Ability, it would be cool, but only if you already have a
Team Ability.

Doesn't seem fair to get a 'Team Ability' for free when it hasnt been factored into the cost of a Fig that has no Team Ability.


So on a Non-generic Theme Team, you could pick one Team from the ones you have and only those members who have a Printed Team Ability
on their dial could use that one Team Ability.
Cannot use any others, even their original Printed Team Ability, or ATAs.

And cannot use an Uncopyable Team Ability ( like Power Cosmic ).

[MrBoBomb]

I'm in the smallest percentage of people, probably 1% of less on this forum that plays no tournament stuff whatsoever and just with friends, so two things on this podcast you guys complained about to me aren't a big deal at all; i actually agreed with Steve on both counts

1) Hypersonic was designed to be a badass power! If you take the auto breakaway from it, it completely devalues the powers; i mean you talk of comic accuracy, if Flash can't break away from everyone he encounters, you're not going to feel like you're playing that character.

2) I think (even if i never play it) a 1800 point, or even 3000 point Galactus is a true novelty that is just cool to do; as Steve said. I don't remember even ever playing a 300 point game, because to me, you can barely put anyone on a 300 pt team, so we've never played that format and sticking with comic accuracy, you know there's people out there who would love to run that massively pointed Galactus just for the fun of it.

[realdarkphoenix]

Man i cant make it through this, Steve sounds like he's always sleepy upset or trying to push his opinion and justify some crazy reasoning.


He always ruins these pod cast for me.