Video Game ToC: TEAM BATTLES R1-M6: TEAM NIHILUS vs. TEAM STARKILLER [Archive]

FrankCastle80

03/13/2012, 15:33

WELCOME, everyone, to the VIDEO GAME TOURNAMENT! That's right, it's TEAMS TIME! (Almost) everyone from Liberty Prime to Bald Bull is here. (We did switch out Mass Effect's Saren for Skyrim's Alduin). One fighter from each class makes for 4 on 4.

Unlike the singles competitions, teams matches DO include downloads.

Please keep respectful while arguing your points.

Here's our sixth match:

TEAM NIHILUS
DARTH NIHILUS (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic) - SHW (Lost R1 - The Beast)
BOWSER (Mario) - HW (lost R1 - Subject Delta)
MORRIGAN (Dragon Age) - MW (lost QF - Link)
SIMON BELMONT (Castlevania) - LW (lost R1 - Donkey Kong)

VS.

TEAM STARKILLER
STARKILLER (Star Wars: The Force Unleashed) - SHW (lost R2 - Father Balder)
NOOB SAIBOT (Mortal Kombat) - HW (lost R2 - Meredith)
AMAKUSA (Samurai Showdown) - MW (lost R1 - Nightmare Geese Howard)
ROCKY (Pocky & Rocky) - LW (lost R1 - The Joker)

http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss234/Emperor_Weird/teamnihilusvsTeamStarkiller.jpg

ARENA:
RAPTURE - Deserted Underwater city in ruins from years of neglect.

LW Champion: GARRUS VAKARIAN (Mass Effect)

MW Champion: RAMMUS (League of Legends)

HW Champion: DANTE (Devil May Cry)

SHW Champion: KEFKA PALAZZO (Final Fantasy VI)

ROUND ONE

Team MewTwo vs. Team Nidhogg (Team MewTwo: 6-0)
Team Nihilanth vs. Team Fury (Team Fury: 5-3)
Team Raiden vs. Team Dagon (Team Raiden: 4-0)
Team Rayquaza vs. Team Beast (Team Rayquaza: 3-1)
Team Palazzo vs. Team Giygas (Team Giygas leads 2-0)
Team Nihilus vs. Team Starkiller
??? vs. ???
??? vs. ???
??? vs. ???
??? vs. ???
??? vs. ???
??? vs. ???
??? vs. ???
??? vs. ???
??? vs. ???
??? vs. ???

ROUND TWO

??? vs. ???
??? vs. ???
??? vs. ???
??? vs. ???
??? vs. ???
??? vs. ???
??? vs. ???
??? vs. ???

QUARTERFINAL

??? vs. ???
??? vs. ???
??? vs. ???
??? vs. ???

SEMIFINAL

??? vs. ???
??? vs. ???

FINAL

??? vs. ???

FrankCastle80

03/13/2012, 15:34

When the numbers put these two together, I got extremely excited and SO wished I could have started off with this! Sith vs. Sith. Almost as if the other 6 fighters don't even matter...

Sigdr

03/13/2012, 15:35

FrankCastle80

03/13/2012, 15:37

Later down the bracket, there's a part of a match I can't wait to post, either...

commandercool

03/13/2012, 15:44

I forget, which Belmont is Simon? Can he do that holy water rain thing? If Nihilus runs and hides until it's over that should WRECK Saibot, and do some damage to everyone else.

FrankCastle80

03/13/2012, 15:47

Simon is the original Belmont from at least the first couple of games. I'll have to look up his power set. I know he really only lost to DK due to his weapons being undead related.

commandercool

03/13/2012, 15:51

Yeah, doesn't look like Simon can do anything super impressive. Can't make it rain holy water. Just standard Castlevania fare.

K-Ness

03/13/2012, 15:52

Wow... I think the fact the LW Simon can handle the HW Noob (with some slight magic assist from Morrigan), Team Nihilus is likely going to end up taking this.

Sigdr

03/13/2012, 16:02

The Christian Amakusa Shiro would definitely know about holy water. Even if he couldn't bless Noob or come up with a spell to protect him or something, which I believe he likely could, he'd at least alert Noob to the trick. Noob is quite mobile so with this knowledge and/or Amakusa's protection, I don't see him getting tagged.

St-Dumas

03/13/2012, 16:25

I'll chip in a vote for Nihil. He's got some strong backup and I think they can take down Starkiller. Plus I heard somewhere that the dude's incorporeal. That could help. Team Nihilus to advance.

Also, this is playing during the fight:

Tn_95hdy6Nw

FrankCastle80

03/13/2012, 16:37

brendanbrown

03/13/2012, 19:52

I think Nihilus wins the Sith v. Sith battle. Noob will have plenty of ways to escape holy water rain, and I'm guessing that's not something Simon can maintain throughout the battle. A fresh Noob may be able to take out a weakened Nihilus, but that's only if his MW/LW are able to take out the 3 other opposing characters. Amakusa has her long-range Gem thing that should be able to find and take out Simon before he causes too much trouble and could handle Morrigan one on one, but she won't have much she can do against Bowser. Rocky seems next to useless in this unless as a distraction to Bowser.

In the end, I'd take a weakened Nihilus with a fresh Bowser against a fresh Noob and a weakened Amakusa.

Team Nihilus to advance.

Sigdr

03/13/2012, 20:03

FrankCastle80

03/13/2012, 20:12

brendanbrown

03/13/2012, 21:37

NrWuMwRKH2c

:p

Slight oversight! :o

I dunno. Can Bowser take down Noob 1 on 1 with the tricks up Bi Han's sleeves? (figurative being he has no sleeves) Between his doubling, teleport and "ghost ball" (makes blocking temporarily impossible.)

I have no doubt Noob would beat Bowser straight up, but the only way I see Noob beating even a near-death Nihilus is if he's at 100%, and I think Bowser would present enough of a challenge that Noob would come out at least a little winded.

Maniac_nmt

03/13/2012, 22:09

SHWs: Jedi vs. Jedi
MWs: Apostate Mage vs. Apostate Mage

This'll be good. I'll have to think about this. The first thing that springs to mind is that Team Starkiller's HW and MW could switch opponents and do very well.

Starkiller >> Darth Nihilus (he punks out Vader and the Emporer both, one right after the other).

I have to vote for Starkiller's team. I don't honestly think he'll be messed up enough vs Nihilus to matter, and I think he can mostly solo the other team after that.

Sigdr

03/13/2012, 22:16

Neither Vader nor the Emperor are as strong as Darth Nihilus or even SHWs. Defeating them hardly means he'll defeat Nihilus.

commandercool

03/13/2012, 22:34

Let me say again, Simon does NOT have the ability to make it rain holy water. He doesn't. I was thinking of Richter. Which is probably good, because frankly that's way stronger that a lightweight should be capable of. If he could do it Saibot would be boned, teleportation or not, because the rain thoroughly blankets the entire battlefield. But he can't. He can throw vials of regular holy water, and his whip is extra strong against the undead, but he doesn't auto-win vs. Saibot.

brendanbrown

03/13/2012, 23:00

But in the tunnels of Rapture, it'd be extremely difficult for him to keep up with Noob much less battle him.

FrankCastle80

03/13/2012, 23:09

I have no doubt Noob would beat Bowser straight up, but the only way I see Noob beating even a near-death Nihilus is if he's at 100%, and I think Bowser would present enough of a challenge that Noob would come out at least a little winded.

If Noob uses a double as a distraction, it may take little out of him (this move doesn't cost any life) while Darth Nihilus turns to cut the double down could be his downfall as Starkiller takes him out with a flying lightsaber attack.

FrankCastle80

03/13/2012, 23:14

But in the tunnels of Rapture, it'd be extremely difficult for him to keep up with Noob much less battle him.

What helps that statement is that in the fiction multiverse, not too many people are high above him on the unpredictability chart. (I can think of Joker being higher, as well as some others) This, plus the certain power-set, makes tunnels and sewers a very dangerous place to encounter the warrior who was once Sub-Zero.

commandercool

03/13/2012, 23:47

But in the tunnels of Rapture, it'd be extremely difficult for him to keep up with Noob much less battle him.

Probably true, but if a low-end lightweight can be a deterrence and threat to a high-end heavyweight, I'd call that a good day. And Simon is used to fighting in confined spaces, for whatever that may be worth. Teleporting enemies probably won't come as a surprise to him either. Not saying he would beat Saibot single-handedly, but at the very least Saibot will have to be extra careful around him.

Honestly Simon probably would have been more useful on the other team, where he would pose an exceptional threat to Nihilus for his weight class, given that there are a few strong similarities between Nihilus and Castlevania Dracula. But again, not the case, so it doesn't really matter.:nervous:

FrankCastle80

03/14/2012, 00:03

Probably true, but if a low-end lightweight can be a deterrence and threat to a high-end heavyweight, I'd call that a good day. And Simon is used to fighting in confined spaces, for whatever that may be worth. Teleporting enemies probably won't come as a surprise to him either. Not saying he would beat Saibot single-handedly, but at the very least Saibot will have to be extra careful around him.

Honestly Simon probably would have been more useful on the other team, where he would pose an exceptional threat to Nihilus for his weight class, given that there are a few strong similarities between Nihilus and Castlevania Dracula. But again, not the case, so it doesn't really matter.:nervous:

It always matters, even just for the smile of the thought.

Sigdr

03/14/2012, 00:15

Probably true, but if a low-end lightweight can be a deterrence and threat to a high-end heavyweight, I'd call that a good day. And Simon is used to fighting in confined spaces, for whatever that may be worth. Teleporting enemies probably won't come as a surprise to him either. Not saying he would beat Saibot single-handedly, but at the very least Saibot will have to be extra careful around him.

Honestly Simon probably would have been more useful on the other team, where he would pose an exceptional threat to Nihilus for his weight class, given that there are a few strong similarities between Nihilus and Castlevania Dracula. But again, not the case, so it doesn't really matter.:nervous:

So, how likely is Amakusa to steal Simon's holy water? For that matter, how likely is he to put Rocky up to it? Raccoons steal stuff, is that part of Rocky's character?

commandercool

03/14/2012, 00:45

So, how likely is Amakusa to steal Simon's holy water? For that matter, how likely is he to put Rocky up to it? Raccoons steal stuff, is that part of Rocky's character?

I don't know, but what would make Simon a big threat against an undead opponent is his whip, which generally only works for a Belmont or after jumping through a ton of hoops. The holy water is helpful, especially against slow-moving enemies or to pin down fast-moving grounded enemies, but it isn't very significant in this case compared to the whip, and stealing it wouldn't be of much use against Nihilus.

It's worth noting though that the Belmonts aren't particularly resistant to mind control, so the whip could be used against his team that way, but I don't imagine Nihilus is going to let Starkiller pull any tricky force stuff on Simon.

Sigdr

03/14/2012, 00:46

Yeah, I think if Simon walks near the Nihilus/Starkiller fight he's going to get chopped in half pronto by one of them.

commandercool

03/14/2012, 00:47

Also, the force is magic, right? Morrigan's powers should probably work against it by my reckoning, although I don't think she has any special way to handle a lightsaber.

Sigdr

03/14/2012, 00:51

Morrigan specializes in hexes. She could hex Starkiller, sure. She doesn't have any meaningful antimagic though if that's what you're thinking of.

commandercool

03/14/2012, 00:54

Morrigan specializes in hexes. She could hex Starkiller, sure. She doesn't have any meaningful antimagic though if that's what you're thinking of.

I'm thinking of the other Dragon Age character in the tournament. My bad.

DTM

03/14/2012, 00:55

Neither Vader nor the Emperor are as strong as Darth Nihilus or even SHWs. Defeating them hardly means he'll defeat Nihilus.

Ive played all of the appropriate SW games to comment on this, I see Nothing in these games to suggest that Nihilus was a level above Vader or the Emperor (let alone both together). If anything Id say hes on par or even lower than V/E, and I agree with Maniac that Starkiller (a Force prodigy) is a level above Nihilus, and should be able to handle him with a decent amount of gas still in his tank to help with the lower ranks.

commandercool

03/14/2012, 00:59

Ive played all of the appropriate SW games to comment on this, I see Nothing in these games to suggest that Nihilus was a level above Vader or the Emperor (let alone both together). If anything Id say hes on par or even lower than V/E, and I agree with Maniac that Starkiller (a Force prodigy) is a level above Nihilus, and should be able to handle him with a decent amount of gas still in his tank to help with the lower ranks.

My understanding is that Nihilus is a ghost, and ghost+Darth Vader=super-heavyweight. Is that correct? And do lightsabers hurt him? Although I suppose if they didn't Starkiller wouldn't bother with his. I assume the force hurts him in the vague way it seems to hurt everything.

DTM

03/14/2012, 01:09

Its been a little while since I played KOTOR2, but Im pretty sure lightsabers hurt him fine, and Nihilus was basically on the same level (albeit in different ways) than Traya and Sion (and Malak from KOTOR1). Nothing in the story or the game suggested to me he was of another level than any of them, or other high level sith such as Vader, Dooku and Palpatine. Sure he used the force in his unique way, but so do most such characters, and to me different doesnt mean Stronger.

FrankCastle80

03/14/2012, 08:16

Score currently stands at 2-1 in favor of Team Nihilus.

Maniac_nmt

03/14/2012, 08:58

Neither Vader nor the Emperor are as strong as Darth Nihilus or even SHWs. Defeating them hardly means he'll defeat Nihilus.

I beg to differ on the Emporer for sure, and also note that according to legit mythos, Vader is supposed to effectively be the most powerful force user ever.

Starkiller thrashes the hell out of Vader and the Emporer both.

Maniac_nmt

03/14/2012, 09:01

My understanding is that Nihilus is a ghost, and ghost+Darth Vader=super-heavyweight. Is that correct? And do lightsabers hurt him? Although I suppose if they didn't Starkiller wouldn't bother with his. I assume the force hurts him in the vague way it seems to hurt everything.

Well, 'ghosts' are incorporeal manifestations of the force in Starwars. So, it isn't a 'vague way' at all. It's litterally the force acting on the force, which we see all the time. No goofiness involved.

commandercool

03/14/2012, 09:22

Well, 'ghosts' are incorporeal manifestations of the force in Starwars. So, it isn't a 'vague way' at all. It's litterally the force acting on the force, which we see all the time. No goofiness involved.

Why do lightsabers effect him then? That's pretty goofy.

FrankCastle80

03/14/2012, 09:26

I could see force lightning actually being much more useful here than the saber... By which I mean Darth Nihilus could have a saber phase through him while lightning does extreme damage.

commandercool

03/14/2012, 09:45

I could see force lightning actually being much more useful here than the saber... By which I mean Darth Nihilus could have a saber phase through him while lightning does extreme damage.

It's been a while since I watched Bad Star Wars, but wasn't it pretty much established that force lightning can't be blocked by a lightsaber consistently? That could end Nihilus really fast. Both Sith would spray lightning all over each other while their teams tried to intervene and Starkiller would come out on top, I guess. Can either one of them do anything to block lightning from the other? Force force field maybe?

The BoyBlunder

03/14/2012, 10:51

I'll go with Star Killer. Partially just to tie it up so we don't close before more discussion happens.

FrankCastle80

03/14/2012, 11:10

With the rosters, I could see each Sith get help and hindrances from most during a big lightning struggle

Noob ghost balls Nihilus, reducing his defense to 0 (unable to defend). However, since lightning in this situation serves as both attack AND defense, It wouldn't drop his lightning completely.

Morrigan hexes down Starkiller's attack or defense. Same story with the lightning.

Amakusa, seeing the vampire hunter as a realistic threat, puts down Simon before he has a chance to counter Noob.

For the moment, this leaves Bowser and Rocky. NORMALLY I'd go with the HW here, buuuuut he spends so much time getting horribly owned by LWs, I'd have to say Rocky has a shot of at least proving to be a major pain in the ### to the Koopa King with his seemingly razor-sharp leaves.

As that finally ends with Bowser putting him down with a fireball and then pretty much just stepping on him, he's pretty worn down. Amakusa goes after Morrigan while Noob picks apart what's left of Bowser. I don't think Amakusa can take Morrigan after the effort in finishing off Simon Belmont. Morrigan handles Amakusa.

The fight, now being a 2 on 2, puts Darth Nihilus and Morrigan against Starkiller and Noob. I'd say the two non-SHWs are running at about 75-82% each while the Sith warriors are both struggling to stay on their feet. If this were Meredith instead of Morrigan, this would end pretty quickly like it did the first time. Sadly for Morrigan, her power set and power level don't give her anywhere near the same advantage.

She gives a valiant effort, but in the end, it's not enough. He doubles and said double holds her arms while he starts punching her like a bully in a schoolyard. Darth Nihilus, at the same time, quickly switches out lightning for a force push, sending Starkiller flying into the side of a building.

Noob's decides its best to end it now. He and his double each grab a leg and start a Morrigan tug-o'-war. Morrigan gets wishboned. He teleports his way to Darth Nihilus. Nihilus, sensing Noob is wounded and where he's going to pop up, quickly turns on his lightsaber and impales the Netherrealm assassin, sending him home. That's the moment of distraction Starkiller needs. He again uses his lightning, but this time, Nihilus isn't ready. Starkiller effectively fries him.

Match for me goes to TEAM STARKILLER

FrankCastle80

03/14/2012, 11:29

I'll go with Star Killer. Partially just to tie it up so we don't close before more discussion happens.

First, score's too close to end so quickly.

Second, the discussion is going too well.

:)

Sigdr

03/14/2012, 14:59

I beg to differ on the Emporer for sure, and also note that according to legit mythos, Vader is supposed to effectively be the most powerful force user ever.

Starkiller thrashes the hell out of Vader and the Emporer both.

That was before Vader got all robotty. I'd go with any of the sith DTM mentioned in a fight over robot Vader.

I'll officially vote Team Starkiller. The main thing Nihilus has going for him over a standard jedi is ghostiness, but Starkiller, Noob, and Amakusa would all be able to damage a ghost. Add in the extreme imbalance in HWs--the very impressive Noob versus the very unimpressive Bowser--and Team Starkiller has this.

K-Ness

03/14/2012, 15:00

That was before Vader got all robotty. I'd go with any of the sith DTM mentioned in a fight over robot Vader.

I'll officially vote Team Starkiller. The main thing Nihilus has going for him over a standard jedi is ghostiness, but Starkiller, Noob, and Amakusa would all be able to damage a ghost. Add in the extreme imbalance in HWs--the very impressive Noob versus the very unimpressive Bowser--and Team Starkiller has this.

You must remember that the LW can handle the HW, though.

Sigdr

03/14/2012, 15:02

That is a big stretch and you know it. A ninja who can teleport is not going to get tagged by a clumsy thrown weapon attack that he'll know to watch out for.

K-Ness

03/14/2012, 15:24

That is a big stretch and you know it. A ninja who can teleport is not going to get tagged by a clumsy thrown weapon attack that he'll know to watch out for.

I'd rank Dracula higher than Noob, and Simon defeats him with a whip.

commandercool

03/14/2012, 16:27

That is a big stretch and you know it. A ninja who can teleport is not going to get tagged by a clumsy thrown weapon attack that he'll know to watch out for.

Again, the holy water is not the big deal. It's the whip. Simon is VERY quick with that whip. He can use it to block projectiles and attack on all sides of him, both of which seems useful against Saibot. And again, I don't think Simon wins 100% of the time, but I do think he wins around 50% of the time, and that's pretty solid.

K-Ness

03/14/2012, 16:31

Two things are coming to mind at the moment.

1. How is Simon only a lightweight?

2. How did he lose to Donkey Kong?

And yes, I realize I voted against him in the LW bracket, but I'm a moron.

commandercool

03/14/2012, 17:03

Two things are coming to mind at the moment.

1. How is Simon only a lightweight?

2. How did he lose to Donkey Kong?

And yes, I realize I voted against him in the LW bracket, but I'm a moron.

Because none of his abilities put him past lightweight status and Donkey Kong is both not undead and fairly durable, I guess.

Sigdr

03/14/2012, 17:05

Again, the holy water is not the big deal. It's the whip. Simon is VERY quick with that whip. He can use it to block projectiles and attack on all sides of him, both of which seems useful against Saibot. And again, I don't think Simon wins 100% of the time, but I do think he wins around 50% of the time, and that's pretty solid.
Saibot has superior mobility and no reason to fight him. Still don't see why he's even an issue.

Jawapimp

03/14/2012, 17:58

Belmont's whip is faster than thought? Because that's how fast Noob can teleport, it literally requires him zero effort. Also... it's a whip, I know he uses it to fight undead, but I'm not entirely sure it's SUPER EFFECTIVE auto kill versus undead. Sure he uses it to defeat Dracula... along with all of his other tricks, and due to the fact that it's literally in his blood to kill Drac.

Regardless, I can't see it mattering all that much. Starkiller lets it rip in this one.

Team Starkiller to move on

FrankCastle80

03/14/2012, 18:05

Because none of his abilities put him past lightweight status and Donkey Kong is both not undead and fairly durable, I guess.

Correct on both answers. None of his weapons will do much damage to the living short of the dagger and the axe. Hell, some opponents would even WELCOME the whip...

commandercool

03/14/2012, 20:58

Saibot has superior mobility and no reason to fight him. Still don't see why he's even an issue.

More or less agreed, but it'll cause him to have to be way more careful than usual, which will cut down his utility a lot, or so I thought before I read this:

Belmont's whip is faster than thought? Because that's how fast Noob can teleport, it literally requires him zero effort. Also... it's a whip, I know he uses it to fight undead, but I'm not entirely sure it's SUPER EFFECTIVE auto kill versus undead. Sure he uses it to defeat Dracula... along with all of his other tricks, and due to the fact that it's literally in his blood to kill Drac.

Regardless, I can't see it mattering all that much. Starkiller lets it rip in this one.

Team Starkiller to move on

!!!?!?!

How did he lose the heavweight championship!? If that's the case, nobody or very few people in that bracket should even be able to consistently attack him. In fact I'd be inclined to call him a super-heavyweight if he has that kind of power.

Regarding the whip though, it is pretty crazy effective against the undead. The Belmonts regularly kill Death with it, which says a lot for it. But yeah, he's never going to get an attack in against an opponent who can teleport instantly and infinitely, and frankly I don't think Nihilus is either. Team Starkiller for sure, I guess.

FrankCastle80

03/14/2012, 21:33

More or less agreed, but it'll cause him to have to be way more careful than usual, which will cut down his utility a lot, or so I thought before I read this:

!!!?!?!

How did he lose the heavweight championship!? If that's the case, nobody or very few people in that bracket should even be able to consistently attack him. In fact I'd be inclined to call him a super-heavyweight if he has that kind of power.

Regarding the whip though, it is pretty crazy effective against the undead. The Belmonts regularly kill Death with it, which says a lot for it. But yeah, he's never going to get an attack in against an opponent who can teleport instantly and infinitely, and frankly I don't think Nihilus is either. Team Starkiller for sure, I guess.

His opponent's power effected him directly. Was an extremely bad draw for Noob.

DTM

03/14/2012, 23:50

That was before Vader got all robotty. I'd go with any of the sith DTM mentioned in a fight over robot Vader.

I wouldnt, as even more machine now than man Vader was still one of the most powerful force users ever (had he been all human, he would easily have been The Strongest Ever). Not saying Nihilus, Sion and Traya arent in his league, they are, but personally my moneys on Vader for the slight more than not win percentage off them in the end. :)