Flash Vs Photon

[Manchine]

All right I have been brain storming on the Avengers Vs JLA. Flash always was a problem fighting against the Avengers. Well I jsut thought of someone. Photon/Captain Marvel! Flash could not deal with her. There is not one thing Flash could do to hurt her. She travels at the speed of light. Only thing is Flash is more agile and can take those turns much better then Photon. Photon sooner or later would beat him though.

Lets talk nicely about this ok. But I would like to hear some ideas on how Flash could beat her.

I mean a GL would have a hard time fight her. Unless I am missing something there.

[CosmicBeing]

I'm a hard core Avenger fan but I have to say that I don't think Photon could beat Flash. I'm not saying the Flash could hurt Photon either. That would be a fight that would just keep the two of them occupied with each other long enough for Flash to get a Repulsor ray in the eye.

Of course Quicksilver and Photon together would have Flash down in 1 minute (they fight fast after all)

[Terman8er]

Here's the deal. Are we talking Wally West of "Flash"?

I know that sounds silly...let me explain.

Wally is an idiot 75% of the time. This is a must in the comcis to make the comic writable.

Flash is a MONSTER. See Walter West, Dark Flash.

If you are arguing what they CAN do and SHOULD do then Flash OWNS Photon. Cut and dry. Throw in Quicksilver too if you want . He mauls them both in a femto-second.

Wally, on the other hand, gets zapped by Photon eventually.

Know what I mean?

[Manchine]

How can any flash hit Photon. When she is energy only that energy can hurt her. No matter what flash does it wont matter. Flash can punch photon forever it wont effect her. Your a little off there Terman8er. Your DC wins no matter what is shining through.

[Terman8er]

Machine...I grow tired of your ignorance. First you claim to know what Flash can and can't do and then you call me bias, basically.

Listen up. Try to pay attention. OK?

Flash has the ability to manipulate speed (as DC puts it). It is basically the absolute control of kinetic energy. Everything has kinetic energy, even light.

Flash has manipulated WHOLE planets (Earth) as well as two whole planets and thier entire populations AT ONCE.

And one of those two planets was populated by beings composed of pure energy. He took thier kinetic energy and added it to his own. He doesn't have to add it to himself though...he can just shunt it into the Speed Force (another dimension).

He can steal the speed from a bullet. Add speed to the synapses of the brain (rather painful...it results in pain and unconsciouness...ask Dr. Alchemy).

He can be a speed force surgeon of a kinetic monster...depending on needs.

So, in this case Photon goes all energy beig on him and he sucks her dry. Of kinetic energy that is. Now she is a light statue. Flash wins.

Flash, Green Lantern (Kyle), Superman, Martian Manhunter and Wonder Woman have some seriously INSANE power displays that I can recite off the top of my head.

FYI I spend a lot of time at superherochat . com arguing this very thing and because of that I have done my research.

Now don't get me wrong.. I have seen Photon stagger Zeus by going all out. But I have also see Flash manipulate the speed of multiple gods at the same time...casually.

Now, you started this whole thing off saying you wanted to keep it civil and then go out of your way to call be biased and to claim I don't know what I am talking about. I hope this rectifies matters and please remember "ignorance" is not an insult.

[Manchine]

Originally posted by Terman8er
Machine...I grow tired of your ignorance. First you claim to know what Flash can and can't do and then you call me bias, basically.

Listen up. Try to pay attention. OK?

Flash has the ability to manipulate speed (as DC puts it). It is basically the absolute control of kinetic energy. Everything has kinetic energy, even light.

Flash has manipulated WHOLE planets (Earth) as well as two whole planets and thier entire populations AT ONCE.

And one of those two planets was populated by beings composed of pure energy. He took thier kinetic energy and added it to his own. He doesn't have to add it to himself though...he can just shunt it into the Speed Force (another dimension).

He can steal the speed from a bullet. Add speed to the synapses of the brain (rather painful...it results in pain and unconsciouness...ask Dr. Alchemy).

He can be a speed force surgeon of a kinetic monster...depending on needs.

So, in this case Photon goes all energy beig on him and he sucks her dry. Of kinetic energy that is. Now she is a light statue. Flash wins.

Flash, Green Lantern (Kyle), Superman, Martian Manhunter and Wonder Woman have some seriously INSANE power displays that I can recite off the top of my head.

FYI I spend a lot of time at superherochat . com arguing this very thing and because of that I have done my research.

Now don't get me wrong.. I have seen Photon stagger Zeus by going all out. But I have also see Flash manipulate the speed of multiple gods at the same time...casually.

Now, you started this whole thing off saying you wanted to keep it civil and then go out of your way to call be biased and to claim I don't know what I am talking about. I hope this rectifies matters and please remember "ignorance" is not an insult.

Like I said. YOur DC wins at everything mentality doesnt work. Oh well your not even worth it.

[Terman8er]

Originally posted by Manchine
Like I said. YOur DC wins at everything mentality doesnt work. Oh well your not even worth it.

Staggered by the truth I see. Nice to see your well thought out and educated response.

Until you can diginify yourself with a descent rebuttal don't talk about anyone else's worth.

Thank you.

[Manchine]

Any other comments on this.

[CosmicBeing]

Gentlemen please!

Lets just shake hands and agree that everyone loves comics and Heroclix and everything will be ok.:)

[Manchine]

Dont look at me. I didnt even get into this one. Guy totally flamed me for no reason.

[thunderstorm]

Originally posted by Terman8er
Machine...I grow tired of your ignorance. First you claim to know what Flash can and can't do and then you call me bias, basically....Listen up. Try to pay attention. OK?...Flash has the ability to manipulate speed (as DC puts it). It is basically the absolute control of kinetic energy. Everything has kinetic energy, even light...Flash has manipulated WHOLE planets (Earth) as well as two whole planets and thier entire populations AT ONCE....Flash, Green Lantern (Kyle), Superman, Martian Manhunter and Wonder Woman have some seriously INSANE power displays that I can recite off the top of my head...please remember "ignorance" is not an insult.

First of all Termy...you are totally out of line by talking down to Manchine like this.

Secondly, just because DC routinely uses incredibly implausible variations in the power levels of their characters in substitution for good storytelling is no reason to beleive that if a decent writer were to pen these battles things like that would happen.

when you have these discussions you have to use the power levels used the majority of the time...most DC characters have these one-shot monstrous uses of their powers that could be sited, but these are the exception as oppossed to the rule. Furthermore, using those extreme examples in an attempt to make another poster look foolish only reflects that foolishness upon yourself.

Ignorance is not an insult...nor is it an excuse to talk down to someone else.

[CosmicBeing]

"Secondly, just because DC routinely uses incredibly implausible variations in the power levels of their characters in substitution for good storytelling is no reason to beleive that if a decent writer were to pen these battles things like that would happen."
*Quote from thunderstorm*

I agree totally. If you went by what a character did once at their max power, then Franklin Richards would erase the Marvel Universe with his cosmic powers and make his own. While most of the time he is like a seven year old boy.

[Manchine]

I learned not to attack people. See my warning level I did it once I wont make that mistake again. I even accept Draggod(SP?) reason behind it. SO I wont attack him like he did me. I did report it. Thats all I will do. I will ignore him. But I would like some input on this.

Thaxs for defending me thunderstorm.

[CosmicBeing]

Hey I tried to help too. (Just not as much)

Although this warning level thing is new to me. What is it all about.

[Manchine]

I did bad bad thing. Lets put it that way. I pushed the line of Judges and it finally broke. I asked and accepted the reason behind it. I have to say I wont do it again! ;)

I wont elebrate(sp?) any more into it. But that should be enough to know.

[maddhatter13]

Dont worry about Terman8er, Manchine, he knows it all.

Him and I went around for a little bit about this same battle in the JLA vs. Avengers thread a few days ago.I basically just gave up on it.

Flash is a God or something to be worshipped by him. I dont know.

BTW, I too was called ignorant by the guy on the whole Flash issue. He seems to like that word a little too much if you ask me

[KaiserSelroc]

Sounds like this guy Terman8er and a friend of mine named Lewis should get into a debate on who would win a fight between Spiderman and Flash. I swear, if you doubt that Spiderman could be anyone, he'll say such awful things about your mother your brain will melt into jelly and you'll go into a RAGE (tm) induced coma.

[KaiserSelroc]

be = beat

[Terman8er]

---edit: double post--

[Terman8er]

Apparently some of you take what I say as an insult and OBVSIOUSLY some of you disagree with the facts I bring to the table.

If you think what I bring to the table is incorrect or straight our wrong then bring it up. Show me the errors of my way. Educate me...show me the "light", so to speak.

But running off to "big brother" crying about what I said and how it hurt you or some such is rather childish.

Madhatter...I told you the same thing. If you make false claims about a character (aka ignorant about a character) and I come in and correct you, it is NOT meant as an insult. That is why I use the term "ignorance". I DON'T want to insult anyone. But when you come back with claims of me not knowing what I am talking about or claim that I am bias or something then I take offense...yet I don't cry wolf...funny that.

Look...you post a fight, I post my opinion...and when questioned I explain. Then I get labeled in some fanboy-ish tirade and so I respond. Simple.

Again...I challenge everyone here to prove my claims wrong.

And yes I may use extreme examples of characters but they are just as factual as any other example. Characters do some extreme stuff. And you won't see me argueing against Franklin Richards...he is Beyonder Jr. for crying out loud.

And when someone asks "What is Flash going to do? Punch light?" you should expect the truth lathered in a verbal lashing.

If you don't know then don't act like you do. Because someone that DOES know will correct you.

Again, I apologize for insulting anyone...I did not intend on doing that...I only cited comic example and explained the hows and whys while others posted something they obviously weren't well versed in.

My apologies.

[maddhatter13]

Terman8er, I have never run to "big brother' as you have suggested, nor would I even contemplate it. However, you do seem to think that you're OPINION is the only one that is right.

Earlier you said that if we were talking about the 'Wally West' Flash, he was 75% of the time an idiot. Well, that is the current Flash, right?

In the JLA vs. Avengers thread you rattled off quite the list of Flash villains. One of these was Savitar I believe. You said he was basically Flash with a better control of the speed force.

Welll, I'm assuming that Flash beat this guy even though the 'facts' suggest that Flash should have gotten his but handed to him by this Dark Flash, or whatever, because Dark Flash has better control of his power.

But that did not happen, did it? Why, because "facts" about powers dont always play into the actual battle.

Is Wally fast? Of course. But this does not mean that he will win 100% of his fights. Every hero has a weakness, and as you yourself have noted, Flash just happens to be a total gomer. Dont you think Photon, who as I remember is no slouch in the brains department, could take advantage of this?

Dont be so closed minded! I hate the JLA, but that doesnt mean I thought the X-Men would beat them. As I stated in that particular ongoing thread, the JLA would absolutely destroy the mutants.

In closing, stop the hero-worship, man! You like Flash, great, doesnt mean he cant be beat no matter what the relative 'facts' about his powers are.

[Terman8er]

Originally posted by maddhatter13
Terman8er, I have never run to "big brother' as you have suggested, nor would I even contemplate it. However, you do seem to think that you're OPINION is the only one that is right.

And I never said YOU did. I apologize if you thought I was implicating you.

Earlier you said that if we were talking about the 'Wally West' Flash, he was 75% of the time an idiot. Well, that is the current Flash, right?

Yes. I also went on to explain the difference between the "power set" Flash has and Wally West.

In the JLA vs. Avengers thread you rattled off quite the list of Flash villains. One of these was Savitar I believe. You said he was basically Flash with a better control of the speed force.

Yep. Kicked the carp out of Wally.

Welll, I'm assuming that Flash beat this guy even though the 'facts' suggest that Flash should have gotten his but handed to him by this Dark Flash, or whatever, because Dark Flash has better control of his power.

Hold up...allow me to explain.

Dark Flash = Walter West. An alternate reality Wally West that was WAY more serious about things as his Linda (Wife) was killed.

Savitar = crazy Russian pilot that was connected to the speed force.

And, FYI, Wally beat SAVITAR (not Dark Flash) only by shunting him physically into the Speed Force. Ya see....Wally is the Avatar of the Speed Force whilke Savitar simply accessed it. But Wally was a novice at the time and Savitar was schooling him. So Wally did the only thing he could do....he made Savitar accelerate to speeds very close to thier maximum ...any faster and into the Speed Force they would go...then he lent Savitar more speed and shunted him into the Speed Force...and only Wally can go in and out at will...an apparent Avatar privledge.

But that did not happen, did it? Why, because "facts" about powers dont always play into the actual battle.

See above.

Is Wally fast? Of course. But this does not mean that he will win 100% of his fights. Every hero has a weakness, and as you yourself have noted, Flash just happens to be a total gomer. Dont you think Photon, who as I remember is no slouch in the brains department, could take advantage of this?

Yes...and that is why I said she would beat Wally if he was Wally...but if Flash...yes, I know its one in the same...used his brains then Photon really doesn't stand a chance.

Please, read my statements again...I stipulated the differences to begin with.

Dont be so closed minded!

OK...I stipulated that Wally would more than likely...as a "gomer" get zapped but a smart user of the Flash powerset and yet I'M closed minded? How the heck do you figure?

I hate the JLA, but that doesnt mean I thought the X-Men would beat them. As I stated in that particular ongoing thread, the JLA would absolutely destroy the mutants.

Agreed.

In closing, stop the hero-worship, man!

Ya see...I so want to use your favorite word here again. Because the fact is I am NOT that big of a Flash fan. My favorites in DC are Deathstroke, the New Gods and Nightwing.

So please stop confusing support with worship.

You like Flash, great, doesnt mean he cant be beat no matter what the relative 'facts' about his powers are.

Ya see...thats the thing. The Flash power det is potentially the most powerfu one in comics today. Makes him very hard to write.

[PantherPriest]

personally I believe that the xmen could stomp jla with the righ lineup, but that's neither here nor there.

Flash travels at the speed of sound

Photon travels at the speed of light.

Let me remind you that to travel at these speeds, one must be able to think at these speeds. Light is plenty faster than sound, the way I see it she's got him down before he even gets to her.

[Terman8er]

*sigh*

SEE! *points up*

OK...I will simply list a few things for you.

#1 Flash is able to (and readily does) exceed light speed.

#2 Flash thinks and acts at those very same speeds.

[PantherPriest]

where might I find this, you're the first person to tell me of this

[Terman8er]

Um...in every Flash comic printed in the last 5 years.

[PantherPriest]

did some quick research on photon, says that in all of her energy forms except one she is invisible. I had a few doubts at first but if wally (or walter) can't see her, then he can't hit her. She can also create 3-D holograms of her self, which could easily be used to trick flash while he goes after the holograms and she's invisible all the while.

[Spookythecat]

Ayup. As of Flash # 100, or thereabouts, Wally has achieved total control of the Speed force, and got all these ridiculous powers. He can now move and think at faster than light speeds.

[PantherPriest]

so what happened eh? Does anybody have any refutes to my mad knowledge? Ha invisible! hahaha eat that wally

[Terman8er]

Oh...you were serious.

Do some more research...she is NORAMALLY very visible...I can hink of only 2 occassions where she became "visible light" and passed through force fields.

Other than that she has always been yellow or red. When she becomes "visible light" she can't see either....its a downfall of that form.

[PantherPriest]

well fine, holograms still win

[Terman8er]

Wha...???

[PantherPriest]

Holograms

Photon can create life size 3-d images of herself.

[GoldenAge]

PantherPriest, if a guy who has as little knowledge about Black Panther as you have of the Flash ever posted on your Batman vs. Black Panther thread you'd go berserk! You'd tell him to get lost! So....

Practice what you preach PantherPriest HA!

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Take it easy, it was only a joke.

[PantherPriest]

That's pretty funny. :laugh: Oh and don't worry it takes a lot for me to go off the handle. No this is true I know nothing of flash. And I wouldn't go berzerk I'd calmly list several reasons why he's wrong and say beat it.

I know more about Flash than I do photon, besides the research I did on her for this forum. But my point with black panther is that he's a completely different character now than he is usually portrayed. But if he had said "if you don't know flash intensely then leave" I would've gladly spent my time doing wiser things.