View Full Version : So... a possible format alteration?
So, rumor has it that a possible format alteration is being considered due to the soldier theme being so dominant in the current format. Some of the possible changes that were discussed were...
A) Banning HoT Cap
B) Banning the Asgard map
C) Banning HoT Cap on the Asgard map
D) Allowing Galactic Gaurdians and making it so you have to use figs from two of these sets... IH:FF, FF Starter, and GG:GF.
My thoughts about each of these options...
A) poor choice. It negates a single power piece, but there are others (we'd simply see War Machine on every team most likely).
B) I'm not in favor of banning stuff. The Asgard map may very well help some other teams but you're hurting those by banning a single map. Besides, there's still the Park.
C) The worst of the 4. Now you're just making things more complicated than they already are.
D) The best of the 4. No, it doesn't bring any other theme teams in, but let's look at the GG figs:
Drax... gives the brutes another option
Dr. strange... definitly handy against Cap teams with his SP. Doesn't help with any theme teams, but still...
Super-Skrull... would just make me wish that generics weren't also highlander'ed :(
Skrull Assassin... see Super-Skrull. The spy keyword allows you a 309 point team... sadly, not enough (and it's a poor team of IC generics largely).
So, Doc Strange alone is enough of a detrement to range heavy teams (including soldier teams) that it may be enough to make a difference in people's choices. Drax adds some heavy damage dealing (with EW) that a brute team might stand a chance. A non-theme of close combat figs backed up by Doc Strange means that they might just be able to get close enough to a heavy ranged team to actually do some damage.
Hesster56
03/24/2012, 16:03
As much as I'd like to see those changes, I don't think it's gonna happen man. Heck, I'd be thrilled to back it down to a no-range event. You'd see Starter Thing everywhere, but it would make what you do with the other 300 points matter a lot more.
rystalquinn
03/24/2012, 16:04
Problem is GG is not guaranteed
Problem is GG is not guaranteed
The 4 I listed were sold as preview figs.
rystalquinn
03/24/2012, 16:07
Not widely available and therefore a detriment to new players. Everything else is possible to get.
Howard Brock
03/24/2012, 16:33
No plans on banning Cap. GG GF and any other set will be only be reconsidered as an add on if they release a new set or figures before or during league play. Something we had always planned on.
Also the park map is much easier to deal with than Asgardian.
Hope that dispells your rumors.
No plans on banning Cap. GG GF and any other set will be only be reconsidered as an add on if they release a new set or figures before or during league play. Something we had always planned on.
Also the park map is much easier to deal with than Asgardian.
Hope that dispells your rumors.
So that leaves banning the Asgard map?
And I'd still take soldiers on the Park over most other teams.
Part of the goal for this league it to bring new players in a create a good first experience for them. To allow GG would just be wrong, since they have no access to it and it puts them at a disadvantage. It's all about the Marvel items currently being sold in the Store. If GG simul-launches this week, then it might be more of an option, but it creates a barrier to entry that might still be too high for what I consider an "intro league". There isn't a hard & fast number of what is an acceptable barrier to entry; but my gut tells me that $20 is the max someone should need to spend to be competitive with 80% of the teams being played. Howard is the league director though; so he has the final say.
Part of the goal for this league it to bring new players in a create a good first experience for them. To allow GG would just be wrong, since they have no access to it and it puts them at a disadvantage.
no access?
what about the fact that GG figs are way cheaper in AH than war machine? which almost no new players have access too due the extreme prices, nothing is gonna make it easier for new ppl. they're screwed anyway you slice this bread, the way i see it.
Howard Brock
03/24/2012, 20:12
no access?
what about the fact that GG figs are way cheaper in AH than war machine? which almost no new players have access too due the extreme prices, nothing is gonna make it easier for new ppl. they're screwed anyway you slice this bread, the way i see it.
They me cheaper at ths moment but were to allow GG then they would not be the case. Also I do no think you realize how many players that do not have these figures are out there. There isnt enough in the AH to support them. All that would happen is they would become scarce and expensive.
Not going to budge on this one but I do hope that they become available very soon online.
the price prolly would go up on those figs but at least u'd outfit some peeps. Its really the same w/ ppl that don't have Cap, i'm sure his price has gone up quite a bit
Thats totally fine that don't wanna add those figs now, the decision is up to you. (super glad i'm not in charge) I'm just sayin stop all the "Think of the new people!!!" talk. cuz they ARE screwed if they don't have cap and War M at this point in the League.
I know people who bought multiple GG singles in the hopes of reselling it just in the event something like this came up. It's just not fair unless there was some sort of agreement that they wouldn't resold on the AH for any more then what they were bought for (and I don't trust anyone would agree to that ... or there would be enough supply). LOL! Let's just wait and see if there's a simul-launch for GG this week.
I'm just sayin stop all the "Think of the new people!!!" talk. cuz they ARE screwed if they don't have cap and War M at this point in the League.
Agreed.
It's just not fair unless there was some sort of agreement that they wouldn't resold on the AH for any more then what they were bought for
The same could be said about Cap, Thorbuster, etc, etc, etc, etc. As people are so fond of pointing out on this forum when discussion turns to rarity of figs, life isn't fair.
switch21
03/25/2012, 03:36
You know what brings in new players? Great, cheap options that allow them to have fun.
This league isn't really that.
A) Having to have access to all the four different qualifying sets is a harsh detriment. If you want to say no HoT figs, then do so. Why the need for all the other limits? having to play IH:FF sucks - I don't need the figs, I don't want to buy the set. So I'm out, just because of that?
B) As Hair has been pointing out, it's going to be a TON of the same teams and that's simply not fun to play AGAINST. Maybe some people like playing HoT Cap 25 times in row. I think that sucks.
C) I've been in HCO since beta and I love Marvel. I have IC figs, HoT figs, GG... why can't people just play what they have and let new players come in to play?
If you really believe in helping new players enjoy the experience, GIFT them figs, just like we do with the real game. Take all those dupes and stuff and give em away with the hopes that someone likes them and will use them.
That makes sense to me (if the goal is new players).
Not going to budge on this one but I do hope that they become available very soon online.
So if they(GG: GF) do become available to everyone, are they going to be allowed in the league?
Whilst at work i was thinking of actual "newb benefiting" league rules. i thought of one we did when back when i used to play IRL. back then there were only REV U 's so we said ok, only REV's are allowed. So i guess for something similar nowadays i'd go with IC REV's and CUR set from HoT. then just ban the rest. 98% of those figs are under 30CB's in AH. still the best one with those restrictions still might be Cap from HoT but it gives u way more options to choose from.....
k anyway i know thats not gonna happen but i just had to throw it out there.
All discussion/arguing aside i truly am glad this thing is goin down.
So if they(GG: GF) do become available to everyone, are they going to be allowed in the league?
I think there's got to be an acceptable amount of time following a set launch for it to be legal in the league. The minimum would probably on the next "complete week"; it just depends when sets come out. Because these series of leagues is going to be long running, we'll make standard rules so you know when figures will be legal once they become widely available online.
Timeshadow
03/26/2012, 11:31
You know what brings in new players? Great, cheap options that allow them to have fun.
This league isn't really that.
A) Having to have access to all the four different qualifying sets is a harsh detriment. If you want to say no HoT figs, then do so. Why the need for all the other limits? having to play IH:FF sucks - I don't need the figs, I don't want to buy the set. So I'm out, just because of that?
B) As Hair has been pointing out, it's going to be a TON of the same teams and that's simply not fun to play AGAINST. Maybe some people like playing HoT Cap 25 times in row. I think that sucks.
C) I've been in HCO since beta and I love Marvel. I have IC figs, HoT figs, GG... why can't people just play what they have and let new players come in to play?
If you really believe in helping new players enjoy the experience, GIFT them figs, just like we do with the real game. Take all those dupes and stuff and give em away with the hopes that someone likes them and will use them.
That makes sense to me (if the goal is new players).
A) So because you don't like The hulk set your forgoing the whole thing? That's funny. There are some great figures there and you can get them super cheap (100CB for the whole set or around 10-50CB indivigually). Just grab a Ross for 25 pts and use him for sheild TA.
B) Cap will not rule the roost. Maby if everyone wanted to just make theme teams but since there are so many good options non theme I'm not worried about Cap.
C) That's what we are doing. But we are also encourageing ppl to get invested into trying figs from all the sets and blocking some of the uber SR/Chase combos out there by using the restrictions we have.
Finally I'm constantly giving away figures when I have spares. Or at least selling them cheap to new players who are playing and having fun. Howard and many others do the same thing. If your looking for somthing someone should be able to hook you up if not for free than for less than it goes for on average in the AH.
HC standard rules are "a fig is legal when you have it in hand". Isn't that good enoug for HCO? If a set is released on such-and-such a day everyone has the same access to it on that day. Why would you push it's "legality" back one week? :confused:
A) So because you don't like The hulk set your forgoing the whole thing? That's funny. There are some great figures there and you can get them super cheap (100CB for the whole set or around 10-50CB indivigually). Just grab a Ross for 25 pts and use him for sheild TA.
I'm pretty sure he was asking a hypothetical question.
B) Cap will not rule the roost.
Maybe not, but soldier teams likely will.
C) That's what we are doing.
By limiting sets and point values you are NOT letting people play what they want. You're forcing them into certain build "models". It's the exact opposite of what you are claiming.
But we are also encourageing ppl to get invested into trying figs from all the sets and blocking some of the uber SR/Chase combos out there by using the restrictions we have.
What uber SR/chase combos? The only one worth his salt is Ultron.
Finally I'm constantly giving away figures when I have spares. Or at least selling them cheap to new players who are playing and having fun. Howard and many others do the same thing. If your looking for somthing someone should be able to hook you up if not for free than for less than it goes for on average in the AH.
This shouldn't be the "failsafe" to justify the build restrictions.
HC standard rules are "a fig is legal when you have it in hand". Isn't that good enoug for HCO? If a set is released on such-and-such a day everyone has the same access to it on that day. Why would you push it's "legality" back one week? :confused:
I'm pretty sure that rule is incorrect because I've had many figures "in hand" before they were widely released, and I can guarantee that they were not legal for tournament play. While I can certainly understand the excitement of playing with figures the day it is released, the League operates on a set of rules/goals that is intended to keep things fair. So in this case, the preview GG figures aren't being included in the league because they are not widely available (AH doesn't count).
In the case of figures being widely available (ie. Upcoming GG release), it's just my opinion that they not be available until the following full week of the league (since "weeks" is the normal gameplay cycle). In the end it's up to the current League Director on when he wants figures to be legal for play.
For the sake of policing figures, I am in the boat that all figures should be legal, but I also believe this league to be the "Intro League"; and we can switch it to a more competitive format in League 2. Let's just kick the tires a little bit and have some fun this first go round. :)
Howard Brock
03/26/2012, 15:26
I'm pretty sure that rule is incorrect because I've had many figures "in hand" before they were widely released, and I can guarantee that they were not legal for tournament play. While I can certainly understand the excitement of playing with figures the day it is released, the League operates on a set of rules/goals that is intended to keep things fair. So in this case, the preview GG figures aren't being included in the league because they are not widely available (AH doesn't count).
In the case of figures being widely available (ie. Upcoming GG release), it's just my opinion that they not be available until the following full week of the league (since "weeks" is the normal gameplay cycle). In the end it's up to the current League Director on when he wants figures to be legal for play.
For the sake of policing figures, I am in the boat that all figures should be legal, but I also believe this league to be the "Intro League"; and we can switch it to a more competitive format in League 2. Let's just kick the tires a little bit and have some fun this first go round. :)
Thats the plan and always has been :)
Crimsonfrost
03/26/2012, 16:08
To those who take issue with GG being disallowed in order to level things for new players:
Regarding the example of allowing rare or highly desired figures (Captain America, Thorbuster, etc), those figures give no real disadvantage to new players because those figures can all be obtained, as every day they are entering the system through booster purchases. They frequently appear on the AH, and can be obtained by anyone who wishes to make a large enough investment in the game.
It all comes down to the fact that GG is a finite supply, for now at least. There are the exact same number of GG figures in the HCO supply today as there were last week, and as will be tomorrow. No matter how much money is spent on HCO, there simply won't be enough to go around. There is, technically, an infinite amount of Thorbusters available. And this is coming from someone who does not have, and badly wants one.
War Machine is infact an oddity here, and is so rare that most longtime HCO players do not have one. However, because he is not a particularly strong piece (such as Dr. Strange, Captain, Thorbuster, etc) not as much thought went into his inclusion or exclusion. I seriously doubt a War Machine team will be dominating this format.
konasavage
03/26/2012, 17:07
I seriously doubt a War Machine team will be dominating this format.
I look forward to proving you wrong, I really enjoy this piece.
Crimsonfrost
03/26/2012, 18:10
I look forward to proving you wrong, I really enjoy this piece.
I hope we see lots of variation in successful teams! Look forward to seeing your squad.
traxlenak
03/26/2012, 18:11
I look forward to proving you wrong, I really enjoy this piece.
seconded...
and maybe even thirded... ;)
A can vouch for Timeshadow getting a 'new' player into this game by gifting some of his dupes.
(Longtime HC player.... just starting into HCO).
Due to the price changes related to HoT; the format has changed: HCOL Rules Changed (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359944)
Hesster56
03/30/2012, 16:24
Sigh...Can we please stop changing the format now? Can we officially lock it down? I've got three teams so far and I'm going to have to dump all of them now and re-build because I've been trying to get the best mix of HoT, Hulk, FF, and IC.
Sigh...Can we please stop changing the format now? Can we officially lock it down? I've got three teams so far and I'm going to have to dump all of them now and re-build because I've been trying to get the best mix of HoT, Hulk, FF, and IC.
This is the first official change; and this should be the last one for HCOL 1. The only thing that may change that is that during the course of the next 4 weeks another set is dropped ... but as long as it's widely available in the store, and everyone has an equal chance at the figures, they should be legal.
Just be fully prepared for Fast Forces Galactic Guardians to be legal when it hits the store.
tyroclix
04/03/2012, 22:31
Just be fully prepared for Fast Forces Galactic Guardians to be legal when it hits the store.
Thank goodness. My 45 figures ain't doing jack against the big spenders! :laugh:
biggnnasty
04/04/2012, 15:00
i got loads of extras (granted none of the highly sought after pieces) that i can part with for little to nothing.
This issue of new players not having a fair shake is always going to be around. It has happened in every game I play in some form or another.
You can simply say that all figures for sale, in the store are legal for the league and all others are banned. That way everyone is on a level playing field.
There will always be someone who has more for various reasons.
As more leagues run, figures go from standard to banned, league format changes ect. All these things can be balanced overtime. Growing pains occur.
Proposing changes and questioning the rules and administrators should be done in debriefs, after it is all done. Changing rules mid tourney simply causes other problems afterword, it opens debate and allows decent.
Have open discussion prior to starting it if you wish. But once the rules are down and it is started , that’s it. Whoever is running this, don't get bullied.
biggnnasty
04/11/2012, 09:01
This issue of new players not having a fair shake is always going to be around. It has happened in every game I play in some form or another.
You can simply say that all figures for sale, in the store are legal for the league and all others are banned. That way everyone is on a level playing field.
There will always be someone who has more for various reasons.
As more leagues run, figures go from standard to banned, league format changes ect. All these things can be balanced overtime. Growing pains occur.
Proposing changes and questioning the rules and administrators should be done in debriefs, after it is all done. Changing rules mid tourney simply causes other problems afterword, it opens debate and allows decent.
Have open discussion prior to starting it if you wish. But once the rules are down and it is started , that’s it. Whoever is running this, don't get bullied.
What he said ^^
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