Sub Marnier fans speak about stats

[CquinnO27]

When the next set comes out I was thinking that one of the figs certain to be included was the Sub-Mariner.
I have tried to come up with how I think his stats and affiliation's would be. This is just how I think he should be made. All you Sub Marnier fans out there let me think how you would make him. There should also be a unique version of him for when he was team-up up with Cap and the original Human Torch to fight the nazi's in WW II. I think they were the Invaders or something.

Rookie - Brotherhood - flight ability - no range
pt cost: 65
Speed: 8 8 7 7 6 5
Attack: 9 8 8 7 6 5
Defense: 14 13 12 11 10 9
Damage: 2 2 2 2 1 1
Super strength for first two attacks
Toughness for first two defense
Battle Furry for third, fourth and fifth damage clix's

Experienced - Defenders - flight ability - no range
pt cost: 75
Speed: 10 9 8 8 7 7 6 5
Attack: 11 10 9 8 8 7 7 6
Defense: 16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9
Damage: 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 1
Super strength for first three attacks
Toughness for first five defense clixs
Battle furry for fourth fifth and sixth damage clix's

Veteran - Avengers - flight ability - no range
pt cost: 95
Speed 11 10 10 9 9 8 8 7 7 6
Attack: 13 12 11 10 10 9 9 8 8 7
Defense: 17 16 15 14 13 12 11 11 10 9
Damage: 4 3 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 1
Super Strength for first six attacks
Invulnerability for first two defense
Toughness for third, fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh defense clix
Battle Fury for sixth, seventh and eighth damage clix

[sol]

I just did a post on Subby last night....

Check it out... (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36479)

[bizzaro]

The rookie should not be Brotherhood ... was he with Magneto??

It should be Minions of Doom to represent his alliance with Doctor Doom early in his career ....

[bizzaro]

I'd consider giving him a click of perplex in the vet version ... who can understand the actions of the king of Atlantis at times???

[sol]

I don't think Sub-Mariner should have Battle Fury, because even though he flies into rages, there is no evidence he couldn't be mind controlled, or that it was to the level of berserk fury...still anything can be justified. Sub-Mariner was never a member of the Brotherhood. Minions of Doom are for the most part NOT Minions of Doom. It's a team ability that mostly is used for people who have teamed with a cornocopia of other villains.

[CquinnO27]

Once again my bad. Confused Magneto with Sub Mariner's eariler evil mode

[sol]

LOL
sorry CquinnO27, I just happen to know a lot of comic book trivia. Not picking on you or anything...I just noticed that was you from the D-Man thing.

[CquinnO27]

No worries man, I admit I have been out of the comics world for a while. So, these posts are all in good fun.
Heck it would not be if we could not poke some fun at old timers.
Not even 30 yet and I am calling myself an old timer, jeezz.
;)

[ASpaceBoyDream]

The stats look good, I think Battle Fury is a perfect fit. As for the affiliation, I'd like to see Minions of Doom for the Rookie, FF for the Experienced (at 74 points so he can replace Reed), and Defenders for the Veteran.

[bizzaro]

Originally posted by sol
Minions of Doom are for the most part NOT Minions of Doom. It's a team ability that mostly is used for people who have teamed with a cornocopia of other villains.

Its the best way to represent when he was viewed as a villian early in his career .... and the fact that he did team with Doom several times vs. FF. It can represent teaming with different viallians ...but it does represnt teaming with Doom as well.

[I Am The Game]

Great initiative, but since you're asking for opinions:

- I disagree with a attack values: Minion of Doom Rookie should start with 9, Defender Exp with 10, Avenger/no affiliation Vet with 11. He is not an overpowering attacker.

- Exp Sub-Mariner should have 1 click of invulnerability at the beginning.

- Rookie Sub-Mariner could have Leap/Climb instead of flight.

- His defense should be stable at the beginning, like Hercules, but drop suddenly and drastically near the end as he dehydrates.

- Unique Subby? Not fundamentally different in the golden age, unless you put a machine gun in his hands! :P How about a unique Jim Hammond Human Torch instead?

- My request of Wizkids is to make him AE with Tiger Shark, Charge to get in, Leap/Climb to get out, Super Strength to show off, B/C/F to make it hurt, 1 click of Inv at the beginning, Toughness down the dial, same falling defensive numbers as Subby when his suit gets torn open.

[CquinnO27]

- I disagree with a attack values: Minion of Doom Rookie should start with 9, Defender Exp with 10, Avenger/no affiliation Vet with 11. He is not an overpowering attacker.

I am going to have to disagree with you.

In several instances in the comics I have seen Sub Mariner go head to head with the Hulk. At least twice when he was with the Avengers. Maybe I can concede his Rookie level of attack being lowered but his Exp and especially Vet version should be high.

But I do agree that his powers should fade dramatically as he gets lower on his dial.

[Zekeup32]

His AV are to high in my opinion.

[CquinnO27]

okay, how about Rookie Attack of 8, Exp attack of 9 and Vet attaclk of 11

[hourman]

I think he should change his name from the submariner to the grand marnier. ;) After all he is the king of atlantis.

[Zekeup32]

Those attacks values look good.

As for a name change Namor would seem more acceptable than Grand Mariner.

[Threadbare]

Battle Fury makes good sense to me.

"No man CARRIES Namor!"

[CquinnO27]

Battle Fury makes good sense to me. No man CARRIES Namor!

Battle fury because the character is immune to Mind Control

[CquinnO27]

meant to say "Also because he is immune to mind control"

[Manchine]

Namor has been done.

Go here for Namor (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28133)