nasty rumor i keep hearing

[jimdbrewer]

Just so you know i also posted this question on wizkids forums....i need an answer. i keep hearing a nasty rumor that marvel is pulling its license at the end of the year. Anybody heard this? I'm hearing that marvel wants to try and do its own game and that when the license ends at the end of the year they won't renew. Attached to this rumor is another rumor that since they only have until the end of the year wizkids is only going to be able to get two more marvel sets out. Can anyone address this? Especially anyone from wizkids, if it's true we need to know before its too late to do anything about it. We can petition marvel to quit being stupid!

[DaLuvster89]

Say it ain't so! They've got to keep making clix 'till I'm a grandpa!

[Xavier PhD]

where'd ya here this from?

[jimdbrewer]

from the people at my local venue. I hadn't heard it before then but they keep quoting it as gospel. I figured i'd post the question on a few forums and try to get a better source. We know wizkids browses the forums. It's in their best intrest to tell us so we can begin petitioning marvel. They get enough nasty letters and emails maybe they will do the right thing.

[DareDevil9]

so wat about DC:cry:

[bjmc1975]

If that were true, they'd probably be rushing out sets packed with all of the remaining heavy hitters. Since I haven't seen any sign of that, I would call this a basic unsubstantiated rumor.

"I heard it at my local Comic Shop" is probably the least reliable source of information known to man. I'd even place it below the Drudge report or Geraldo Rivera.

[DCFan#1]

Whoa, whoa, whoa! You can bag on the comic shop gossip all you want, but not Drudge! Stop letting the liberal media influence you opinions on non-mainstream news.

-Rich

[I_Blame_You]

Originally posted by bjmc1975

"I heard it at my local Comic Shop" is probably the least reliable source of information known to man. I'd even place it below the Drudge report or Geraldo Rivera.

Mentioning Drudge and Geraldo in the same breath is just....wrong!;)
(That was an anti-Rivera comment, by the way.)

[Brigadier M]

I don't think WK would tell us. They would be afraid (and perhaps rightly so) that some people would quit buying, knowing the game was soon to be obsolete.

M!

[Funky Jett]

I don't think ANYTHING is below Jerry Rivers... err, I mean, Geraldo Rivera.

[CFGenesis]

That might actually not be so bad. If they can get out 2 more sets, that's another 200 figures. They can get out all the remain important figures instead of saying "Here's Namor and a new Wolverine and a bunch of obscure chumps." I think covering almost 600 figures is plenty.

[bjmc1975]

Originally posted by DCFan#1
Whoa, whoa, whoa! You can bag on the comic shop gossip all you want, but not Drudge! Stop letting the liberal media influence you opinions on non-mainstream news.

-Rich

It has nothing to do with his political opinions, or this myth of a "liberal media", simply that he tends to spread misleading or flat out inaccurate information. Part of the reason I picked him for this particular post is he's been in the news lately for saying that Sony was going to lose the Spider-Man sequel, which simply isn't true. (The actual story is just merchandising rights and won't affect the movie). I just don't think he checks sources well, if at all.

[domino33]

I'm HOPING that this rumor is false. However, Marvel has done this sort of thing before. I know the situation wasn't exactly the same, but during its bankruptcy mess, Marvel refused to buy the rights to the OverPower game mechanic--which was owned by Fleer, itself owned by Marvel (head beginning to spin)--and opted to do their own game instead, Re-Charge. Nuff said.

Also, after Bowen proved that there was a market for super hero busts, Marvel yanked his license and began doing them as well. Others may disagree, but I MUCH preferred the Bowen busts to anything that has come since.

Heroclix isn't perfect, but I shudder at what Marvel will have in store should this rumor be true...

Also, I wonder if this very thing is behind WizKids decision to reduce prize support? Magister eloquently stated that in the WizKids Judges forum that it was done to keep the support program viable for the long-term. Licensing fees aside, HeroClix is a cash cow for WizKids and should they lose it, their company would suffer.

Ah, I love speculating on rumors! :)

[cptantilles]

Well I haven't heard this rumor until now and am sad to think it might be true. However to speculate that if Wizkids WILL lose the license at the end of the year, they would NOT talk about it until right before or after the last (Marvel) set is released. Decipher did the exact same thing with the Star Wars CCG. They waited until the VERY last minute to tell about the loss of the license because they had false hopes that they might still renew it, and they didn't want to lose any business for the final/last sets. I still would have bought them since I had EVERY other set but I feel that's wrong to not give the customer the choice. Isn't America all about freedoms including choice? They also went on to give this entire song and dance and blame it all on George (at least his Co. anyway) himself. That made me dislike Decipher more, not Gerorge or Star wars. The passing of the buck that is. Waiting until the last minute to say anything didn't impress me very much either. Of course that's my opinion and we all know what they say about those!? I also like and agree a lot with Domino33 and his or her examples. The bottom line on the situation though is if it IS true, we won't get any official word until it's waaaayyyyy too late. So until then (and even after) I'm gonna enjoy what I got and get. Same to everyone else and have a great weekend :)

[sudro2]

Originally posted by domino33
Also, I wonder if this very thing is behind WizKids decision to reduce prize support?

As I understand it, the decision to reduce prize support was based on the number of LEs ending up on a certain online auction site. Instead of being prizes for good gaming, they were going to the highest bidder. What's worse is that it wasn't the players selling them, it was the venues. I know of a couple of venues that sold the LEs sent to them for prize support instead of awarding them to the winners of tournys.

Anyway, I'd be very surprised to see Marvel pull the license. I can't claim to know anything one way or another, but pulling the license would be a bad business decision all around. While Marvel has made some questionable decisions, I just don't think they could screw this one up.

[bjmc1975]

What Magister said was simply that it was getting too expensive to have three per tournament. If they didn't want the stuff to end up on Ebay, they'd be making them more common, not rarer; the one thing the new policy is guaranteed to do is drive up the prices of LE's as there will be fewer available.

[EvilGenius]

Originally posted by sudro2
I just don't think they could screw this one up.

Uh, are you talking about the same Marvel as the rest of us? ;) (jk).

All I can say is, I HOPE MARVEL DOES RECLAIM THE RIGHTS, AND DC DOESN'T!!!! (what a great move that would be for DC).

THEN THE ONLY NEW HEROCLIX WOULD BE DC!!!! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

[snatreaper]

And Indy Clix.

The way I figure it is I'll keep buying them as long as they make them. When there gone, I'm going to have plenty of piece. And there's no way that I'm going to get into a different miniture game. If Marvel did leave, they'd just be shooting themselves in the foot. Nuff said.

[GreenLanturn88]

i agree. ive never bought any dc packs because well, aside from superman and the green lanturn none of the super heros or villans in dc are really cool. i mean think, almost every unique villan in DC has outwit, and a few other random abilitys. why? because they dont have any abilitys themselves. albiet there are a few but not enough to match up with marvel. every other marvel hero is a mutant or a bulky giant. people like that.

at least i do...

GO MARVEL DOWN WIT *DC*

[capsshield]

If marvel were to pull the liscence it would be to sell it to someone else or to rework the contract to get a bigger piece of the pie. Yes marvel has the distribution chanels but why buy the cow if the milk is free. I doubt this rumor is anything to worry about, and even if there was never another piece made, us fans will be able to keep this game going for decades. Ive never seen a group of fans unite like they have on this web site, sharing and customizing the maps, figs, and dials as well as creating scenerios and 3d objects. I've been around a long time and i've seen many things i liked go away, but usually they return better than before, especially when it was comic book related. remember in the comic book worlds nothing is dead unless you see them bury the body, and even then that's not so permanent.

[CquinnO27]

I dread the day Marvel takes over this game. While I love the characters in the Marvel Universe, the Marvel company is another matter. I can almost guarantee that what ever the game abortions into under the direction of Marvel, one certainty will be that figures released under Marvel will revolve only around what movies Marvel is promoting at the moment.
The first set will probably have about 14 Elektra's in it. I can even see them creating new characters in the comics just so they can hurry up and stick them into the game.
Also, how will this impact actual game play? Isn't the style of game play and design of the Wizkids gaming system unique to their company?
What changes will Marvel have to make to the game play in order nor to be sued? If at all.
The whole idea of it is a huge cluster ####.

If it indeed does happen. Will any of you play and collect the Marvel version? Myself I am undecided. I just hope this turns out to be a false rumor.

[Avendoral]

I spoke to my gaming shop friend today, and his reply to this rumor was...huh? That's what leads me to believe this rumor is just that, a rumor. <<besides...would they really kill off a chance to get free money?...well, knowing marvel, yes, but that's neither here nor there>>

[NickCarraway]

what a great rumor.

Two marvel sets by the end of the year? after they get DC Justice out June 16, Indy CLix like in July and Creepy Freaks in the fall? Doesn't anybody else here have production experience?

No way that two sets would happen. Unless of course they did some more of that Shadowcat/Storm same fig/different base nonsense.

I say "Let's play and play and see what develops"

[Wyldstaar]

I'm no lawyer, but I know the basics on how licensing rights work. Marvel can't simply revoke the rights from Wizkids. License rights are agreed upon for a certain period of time. At the end of that time, the rights will either be renewed, or not. Since Marvel Heroclix is still very profitable, WK will certainly want to renew when the time comes (whenever that may be). At that point, the ball is in Marvel's court. Since Marvel has NEVER had a game based on their characters as successful as Heroclix, it would be incredibly stupid to rock the boat. That being said, it was incredibly stupid to have the Clone Saga in Spider-Man, let Chris Claremont create a chaotic new storyline in X-men comics right when the X-Men movie was released, or flood the market with so many Marvel comic card sets that the market collapsed! Marvel is not known for their wise business decisions. Anything can happen once that license expires.

[weezer_10]

If you heard this rumour from your "local comic" shop, then I think you're a sucker for believing it.

Property management do the same thing; it's called "panic marketing". A retailer will use the "it won't be here for good, so buy up quick-smart" method to put "panic" in the consumer, making him/her make brash and unthought decisions.

The clerk at your "local comic store" is trying to get you to do some "panic buying."

And honestly, what do comic store owners know anyway? Take for example the manager at my Heroclix stockist; I asked him about Cosmic Justice and when it's due out, he said this, "Cosmic whatsa?" Ohhhh the humanity!!! :p

If you want a straight answer, go straight to the source... or wait until they release a media-statement or something.

[theNightwing]

I agree with weezer_10, twio of the comic shops in my area haven't even heard of Indyclix. That said, I will add that there has been a strong rumor from different overpower sites, that marvel is doing a new ccg (closer to the op format than recharge). This may be what you're shop was talking about when they said Marvel was gonna do their own game. I don't think this would affect Heroclix. On a final note, Marvel has proven that they have no idea of how to run a company, so I say down with Marvel, let Dc take the lead again!!!

[drcreaux]

Pardon my ignorance, but "Creepy Freaks"? What is this?


Dr. Creaux

[zapdos]

It's a new CMG that wizkids is making. One Clix that is going to be made is Frosiy the Snotman. Gross out type of stuff.

[Silver Lantern]

Originally posted by Wyldstaar
I'm no lawyer, but I know the basics on how licensing rights work. Marvel can't simply revoke the rights from Wizkids. License rights are agreed upon for a certain period of time. At the end of that time, the rights will either be renewed, or not. .....
Anything can happen once that license expires.

Wyldstaar: I am not a lawyer either, at least not yet, but I am working on it. :) A license by defenition is revockable at will. But, The licensing agreement between Wizkids & Marvel is likely business contract for Wizkids to use the property rights of the Marvel universe in the heroclix game. That said, a contract may also be breached at any time. But the breaching party will usually have to pay damages to the non-breaching party for breaking the Contract in the harmed party sues.
The entire purpose of a contract is to force people to do what they may not want to otherwise if they were not compelled by the threat of suit on the contract. However, if you don't care about paying the damages (perhaps because you suffer a greater harm by staying in the contract), then nothing at all prevents you from breaching the contract. Of course these are just basic contract principles and I am not privy to the Marvel/Wizkids contract so I don't know exactly what it is. I did post some contractual questions in a thread you had to be asked to Jon L, but I never heard anything further about that.
Marvel will likely not breach its contract, since it can just wait for the Contract to expire in terms of time limit or # of sets limit, which I am sure exists.

Hope this helps,
Rene

[bjmc1975]

While you're technically right, it would be an extremely poor idea for Marvel to simply breach the contract because they think they can make more money elsewhere, as that could cause them immeasurable future harm in licensing deals. Realistically, it's not just unlikely, it's really not an option.

[Noman]

It would be INCREDIBLY stupid for Marvel not to continue to support the HC games system by not renewing the licence.

The game is a cash cow for WK and great advertising for Marvel products. If Marvel pulled out, WK would still keep HC Indy and DC stuff pumping out - and eventualy they would release other figs in HC from other publishers or game backgrounds.

I'm far more worried about "Creepy Freaks" - it is almost certainly going to "bomb" big time, and is using up factory time and plastic that could be used for HeroClix and MechWarrior DA.

Come on WK - more Heroclix !!!

LoL

All the Best

Noman

[Jbone]

I loved reading this thread, from the lines about the "liberal media" (has anyone ever watched FoxNews if anything the conservitive media is in charge) to the "Marvel would be stupid for doing this". First since Jemas has taken the helm at Marvel the company philosophy is "this is not your dad's Marvel" while this has lead to some great things (Marvel Knights, MAX line, Morrison's New X-Men) it has also spawned comic characters' development dictated by box office draws and creators forced to concede to the will of corprate execs. So in this light the idea Marvel releasing the licence agreement and attempting their own game is pretty sound. And incidently it will mean nothing but problems for Wizkids as the might of Marvels parent company goes for total control of the industry, just look at the immature campaign of insults and retoric that flow from Jemas to DC and CrossGen.

[Noman]

Lead...to...some...great...things...

-No, sorry, I don't get it

LoL

All the Best

Noman

[tyroman]

As I 'heard' it Wizkids has the licencing for five years or something like that. I think my bank account will run dry before they do. :p

[XocgX]

HAHAHA! Druge report! Too funny. I check that site VERY ogten, but it's only good for breaking stories....it often puts INSANE right wing spin on it....if the liberal media was in charge, why did most news shows bash moore's oscar speech?

I'd imagine in no way would marvel revoke HC's license.....they are making insane money!

[CCTelander]

Originally posted by bjmc1975
It has nothing to do with his political opinions, or this myth of a "liberal media", simply that he tends to spread misleading or flat out inaccurate information. Part of the reason I picked him for this particular post is he's been in the news lately for saying that Sony was going to lose the Spider-Man sequel, which simply isn't true. (The actual story is just merchandising rights and won't affect the movie). I just don't think he checks sources well, if at all.

From Newsarama.com:

"On February 25, 2003, Marvel filed, temporarily under seal, a twelve-count complaint against Sony. The lawsuit seeks more than $50 million in damages as well as rescission of the License Agreement between Marvel and Sony and an injunction against any further film or television production by Sony of Spider-Man beyond the current sequel, "Spider-Man 2," which is already in production. Marvel has asked to try its case to a jury."

Looks like, assuming Marvel wins the suit, Sony will lose the license AFTER the forthcoming sequel.

[Doctor Strange]

I heard long ago that marvels agreement with wizkids was for 5 setx.

[LurkMaster2000]

everybody hold on to your bruce banners.... once marvel pulls out, those things will be sellin for a cool $300 a piece. ;)

seriously though, if there is any truth to this rumor, do you think it has anything to do with the release of the pineapple?

[CquinnO27]

First since Jemas has taken the helm at Marvel the company philosophy is "this is not your dad's Marvel" while this has lead to some great things (Marvel Knights, MAX line, Morrison's New X-Men)



Do You think the current Marvel is Better than what was produced during time of 1975-1991

Granted that was a large time span with various changes within, but still, the writing and storylines produced during that time is far superior to the toilet discharge that is masquerading as the current Marvel.

There will always be diamonds in the rough, but New X-Men is not one of them. This whole "Not Your Father's Marvel" is bunk.

I understand that comics need to adjust to today's readership. I just feel that with certain exceptions, most of today's stuff seems to be a by product of the Nickelodeon short attention span generation.

[Heretic]

As I understand, The licensing agreement was for 5 sets from Marvel and 3 from DC, It wasn't time limited that I know of.

[MrBlu]

Actually, Marvel did put out the last Overpower set on their own. They thought they could. All the Fleer people were fired and some went to Marvel; I knew a couple. Then, they purposely s####ped the game to let WOC put out the X-Men game to tie into the X-Men movie. It was all about the bucks. Once that drastically under supported game was put to death; then Marvel put out ReCharge; which was kind of lame. Notice it's gone too.

So, I could see Marvel doing this, but they can't do it like Clix less they get sued. They could make a miniatures game, but I imagine any similarities will get the nix from Wizkids.

[drcreaux]

Darn, I was really hoping that CF was a new expansion for Marvel or DC...that's really something I could get behind...Heck, let's take a stab at them....

Marvel Heroclix: Creepy Freaks

REV
1-3. Bum
4-6. Baglady
7-9. Moleman Minion
10-12. Latvian Peasant
13-15. Morlock
16-18. Mobster (AE w/ Punisher)
19-21. Terror, Inc.
22-24. Marrow
25-27. Vermin (AE w/ Kraven)
28-30. Tarantula
31-33. Batroc the Leaper
34-36. Kraven the Hunter (AE w/ Vermin)
37-39. Moleman
40-42. Husk
43-45. Agent X
46-48. Black Bolt
49-51. Deathwatch (AE w/ Ghost Rider)
52-54. Tombstone
55-57. Sleepwalker
58-60. Werewolf by Night
61-63. Wendigo
64-66. Morbius
67-69. The Punisher (AE w/ Mobsters)
70-72. Deathlok
73-75. Death's Head
76-78. Howard the Duck (AE w/ George Lucas)
79-81. Ghost Rider (AE w/ Deathwatch)
82-84. Venom
Uniques
85. War
86. Famine
87. Pestilence
88. Archangel
89. BlackHeart
90. Manthing
91. Maestro
92. Manspider
93. Mojo II: The Sequel
94. Vampire Lord Wolverine
95. Froggy Thor (or Beta Ray Bill...I'm not picky)
96. Dr. Doom Unmasked


Not you your liking? How about my less inspired (mostly due to lack of knowledge of DC characters) DC set?


DC Heroclix: Creepy Freaks

REV
1-3. Zombie Penguins
4-6. Zombie Seals (I was s####ing the barrel here, Hitman #13-14)
7-9. Parademon
10-12. Eclipsed Civilian
13-15. Gorilla City Soldier
16-18. Gorilla City Doctor
19-21. Film Freak (only R would be playable, E & V would be corpses)
22-24. Zan (AE w/ Marvin)
25-27. Jaina (AE w/ Wendy)
28-30. Arseface
31-33. Scarecrow
34-36. G'Nort
37-39. Melvin (AE w/ Zan)
40-42. Wendy (AE w/ Jaina)
43-45. The Creeper
46-48. Zsasz
49-51. Bat-Mite
52-54. Mongul
55-57. Major Force
58-60. Killer Croc
61-63. The Hitman (AE w/ The Mawzir)
64-66. Saint of Killers (AE w/ Preacher)
67-69. Metamorpho
70-72. Clayface I
73-75. Azrael
76-78. Preacher (AE w/ Saint of Killers)
79-81. Eclipso
82-84. Lobo
Uniques
85. Bizarro Lois Lane
86. Gleek (AE w/ Wondermutt)
87. Starro
88. Death
89. The Mawzir (AE w/ Hitman)
90. Mr. Myxilpsdgakajprbaijagpajgfgj;...yeah...
91. Deadman
92. Sandman
93. Wondermutt (AE w/ Gleek)
94. Vampire Batman
95. The Demon Etrigan
96. Eradicator


Please forgive if your favorite freak isn't on there...I myself am cheesed off that I didn't have room for any of Technet or the Warwolves.


Dr. Creaux

[theNightwing]

It's amazing how everyone gets all worked up over a coment made by "ONE" comic book store associate. If this were true, why is this comic shop the only place to pass that info? Come on people, THINK!!! Personally I wish it were true. We have most of the important Marvel figs and in 2 more sets probably the rest, and face it after that we probably see repeats galore. So by Marvell pulling that would free production for new DC and Indy, which would mean new characters to form your teams. Pluss, it would gretly raise the value of any Marvel Fig (imagine Nightcrawlers price after something like this).

[NickCarraway]

Repeats galore!!

Even Elektra?

Say it ain't so Joe, say it ain't so.

[MrBlu]

Well, I'm not too worked up myself. I was going to quit after CJ set anyway. There's all ready too many figs we don't use here. I just think it something Marvel might try to do anyway; sometimes they get cocky. I could see it happen, but yet I'm sure it's bogus. It just sounds like Marvel anyway!

[Bookman]

Ya know... drcreaux, I'd buy a case of your creepy freaks in a New York minuite.
LOL. Love the Zan vs Marvin ae, Bizarro Lois and heck I can only PRAY that they come out with a Major Force for DC sometime in the future

[space_cowboy]

I know it's not exactly the bastion of the free press, but the Parade magazine in this Sunday's paper stated that Spiderman is already in the process of filming. No flame please, it's just what I read in the papers.

[Spock]

Anyway, I'd be very surprised to see Marvel pull the license. I can't claim to know anything one way or another, but pulling the license would be a bad business decision all around. While Marvel has made some questionable decisions, I just don't think they could screw this one up.

eh...I never try to predict what these places are going to do. Half the people here are probably familiar with that happened to Star Wars; several of the most popular CCGs were Decipher's SW-based games (SW:CCG and Young Jedi) and then Lucus refused to renew the liscense.

I haven't yet met anyone who admits to playing the wotc SW tcg...

[DS-00-0, FSD]

Originally posted by drcreaux

Marvel Heroclix: Creepy Freaks

REV
1-3. Bum
4-6. Baglady
7-9. Moleman Minion
10-12. Latvian Peasant
13-15. Morlock
16-18. Mobster (AE w/ Punisher)
19-21. Terror, Inc.
22-24. Marrow
25-27. Vermin (AE w/ Kraven)
28-30. Tarantula
31-33. Batroc the Leaper
34-36. Kraven the Hunter (AE w/ Vermin)
37-39. Moleman
40-42. Husk
43-45. Agent X
46-48. Black Bolt
49-51. Deathwatch (AE w/ Ghost Rider)
52-54. Tombstone
55-57. Sleepwalker
58-60. Werewolf by Night
61-63. Wendigo
64-66. Morbius
67-69. The Punisher (AE w/ Mobsters)
70-72. Deathlok
73-75. Death's Head
76-78. Howard the Duck (AE w/ George Lucas)
79-81. Ghost Rider (AE w/ Deathwatch)
82-84. Venom
Uniques
85. War
86. Famine
87. Pestilence
88. Archangel
89. BlackHeart
90. Manthing
91. Maestro
92. Manspider
93. Mojo II: The Sequel
94. Vampire Lord Wolverine
95. Froggy Thor (or Beta Ray Bill...I'm not picky)
96. Dr. Doom Unmasked



Hmmm, looks good. We have our Hulk (Meastro), Spiderman (Manspider) and Wolverine (Vampire Lord), so it already looks like a set. Only problem, you have too few female characters.

[drcreaux]

Bookman, after I came up with these lists, I was sorely tempted to bust out the paints and the extra clix and get to modiying, heck, just to finally do that T.O. Morrow/Dr. Clayton Forrester mod I've been planning....

DS-00-0, FSD, I realized that as I was coming up with the list...the male freaks just came to me easier than female ones. Thinking back, I would have also added that Skrull that impersonated Sue Richards during the "New Fantastic Four", Goblin Queen, Movie Mystique, and Elektra's Corpse.


Dr. Creaux

[cptantilles]

I remeber all too well what happened to Decipher and SWCCG. It was horrible! I'll admit I tried the new game by Wizards. The rules are much simpler, but everything else about the game blows. As for the nasty rumor ... only time will really tell. I just hope history doesn't repeat itself.

[Bookman]

Dr. Forester- OMG! Kneejerk response is Shield Trooper as TV's Frank- but you'd have to do something with his arms. Though I hate to say it- henchmen( from the first Marvel set) might be the best for him. I "think' Titana would work for Ms. Forester... but as for Mike and Joel- we'd have to use the same fig for both... though which figure I have no clue
lastly Hyde would prolly work better for Bobo then Gorilla Grodd.

*shakes head again* man MST3K clix... the mind boggles.