Marvel Wolverine vs. Captain America [Archive]

JINoside

04/25/2003, 22:00

Originally posted by Preacher
Cap blocked the blow with his shield . . . which only dented a bit, and stood up afterward. Anyone that can take a full-on hit from Thor and still be fit to fight should be able to handle Wolverine.

Ultimately of course, its up to the writers . . . but as a writer, I couldn't justify Wolvie beating up Cap in a brawl.

That was in a little cross over between the three characters. It was good stuff. Thor was pretty pissed and got to into the moment and stuck Cap with some force that was enough to dent his shiled. Thor later felt remoursfull for what he did to Cap and repaired it. By all mean, if Caps shield wouldn't have had Vibranium(a metal that absorbs impact), most likely he would have been impaled by that attack. His shield absorbed most of that attack but he still fell off his feet.

Wolverine does have a chance, a very good one infact. But Cap has a lot of Battle experience and a sertain style and finess of fighting that would grant him victory. im not saying that Wolverine would lose hands down, but at the end i see Cap winning........

TNC

04/25/2003, 23:07

Actually Wolverine is stronger and tougher, he has adamantium reinforcing his bones and muscles and I doubt Cap has anything to really finish Wolvie off.

metzgarob

04/25/2003, 23:11

if wolvie didnt have a healing factor then cap would win hands down but since wolvie usually DOES have a healing factor then practically nothing cap could do could "stop" wolvie

not saying wolvie would win mind you just that cap couldnt

metzgarob

04/25/2003, 23:12

TNC
i am 95% sure that cap is stronger...

superspldier serum

JINoside

04/25/2003, 23:21

Originally posted by TNC
Actually Wolverine is stronger and tougher, he has adamantium reinforcing his bones and muscles and I doubt Cap has anything to really finish Wolvie off.

Theyre is. He Does have a shield you know, which is actually tougher than Wolverines adamantium. Caps shield is very hard and he knows how to use it Very well. Cap could knock wolverine out if he hits him a few times hard enough to the back of the head, face or head himself.

Wolverines healing factor will play a good role in this fight but not such a big role. Cap doesn't use guns or weopons that would damage his skill so they'll really be nothing to heal besides the brusises he'll receive from Cap and Caps shield.......

TheYanger

04/26/2003, 00:27

Yes keep in mind that Cap's Vibranium shield is the most powerful material known to exist, and he handles it with precision only afforded by decades of experience. I'm not saying wolvie isn't a tough customer with experience of his own, but 'healing factor' and 'adamantium skeleton' really don't apply here. If he really wanted to, cap could frankly decapitate wolvy with the shield. That's why thor's strike in Standoff part 3 was truly amazing, that's the ONLY time the shield has been scratched by physical means. it's been screwed with molecularly and such (I think claw messed it up bad a couple years ago? I dunno), but wolvy could attack the shield all day long and there would be no damage at all.

Perfectstorm

04/26/2003, 00:37

See it really depenmds if they knew it would happen.
In a strait fight, It is a toss up. Cappy is the better fighter and is better at almost everything, but I dont see either of them able to take down the other. Even if wolvie took off caps arms, I still see cap standing tall and fighting, and Wolvie will take far more blows, but He can take them.

Now if it was a prepared battle, I see it happen much like the ultimate battle did. Wolive comes with with claws drawn, and cap pulls out a mini gun and blows him away, fully knowing he will survive. Then beat the Pi$$ out of him while he is down. Cap will kill, BUT only if it is the only option, and From the past, He knows it wont kill wolive but it will slow him down and give cap the edge he needs to take over.

Zekeup32

04/26/2003, 01:30

Caps shield is made of Vibranium. Wolverines skeleton is reinforced with Adamantium. I know Vibranium is a very tough metal and is meant to absorb shock, like from bullets or Thors hammer, but I was under the impression that Adamantium was the hardest metal there is, meaning that Caps shield could pound on Wolvie all day and it would be like hitting a wall of concrete.

CowboyBebop

04/26/2003, 01:38

Regenaration and laced skeleton. Wolvie all day baby. Though I like Cap better.

CosmicBeing

04/26/2003, 01:50

Caps sheild IS made of adamantium, it just has vibranium laced in it for shock absorbtion and such.

Plus Cap is WAY stronger than wolvie. Logan is really strong but the super solider serum made Cap able to lift like nearly a ton. Add that to his fighting skill and exp. and wolvie goes down.

Cap wins.

CosmicBeing

04/26/2003, 01:51

P.S. Cap wears heavy duty chain mail. Even if logan got in a good hit, it wouldn't end the fight. Not by a long shot.

KarateForever

04/26/2003, 02:03

MarvelDirectory.com
Wolverine: While possessing the adamantium skeleton, Wolverine's strength was increased to the human maximum, making him capable of lifting (pressing) 800 lbs.
Captain America: Captain America represents the pinnacle of human physical perfection. While not superhuman, he is as strong as a human being can be. He can lift (press) a maximum of 800 pounds with supreme effort.

Strength level looks the same to me. No advantage to either here.

Wolverine is way more resistant to injury and even if he is injured will recover a lot quicker. Advantage Wolverine.

Wolverine has been hit by the Hulk and came back for more. Cap, even using his shield, will never be able to hit as hard as the Hulk. Wolverine will never be hurt by Cap. Advantage Wolverine.

This fight could go on and on but I think eventually Wolverine would win.

CosmicBeing

04/26/2003, 02:22

If you mean " came back for more " as in like three days later when he woke up, then ya sure:rolleyes:

hellboy19

04/26/2003, 02:34

What is this nonsense I keep reading about Cap being a better fighter?! Wolverine is a master of all forms of combat. Cap is a boxing master, and he knows judo and karate, which he has mastered, but he by no means is a trained samurai. Cap is an unparrelled on-the-fly strategist, but that does not mean he is better trained for combat. Wolvie can do just about anything in a fight when he puts his mind to it, he just doesn't usually need to use it, as most opponents aren't as trained as Wolvie. (Also remember, Wolvie is over a hundred years old, and he was training while Cap was frozen in the Atlantic.)

I think in a standard fight, given Cap's strategic skills, he'd pull off a victory. But if they were to go no-holds-barred, no shield or claws, Wolvie would definately win.

Steve Shady

04/26/2003, 02:37

Wolverine is the best combat expert in the xmen next to Psylocke as a melee fighter. He could crush Cappy flat. His claws would tear apart that shield and rip apart mr america. Sorry but its shield vs claws and once wolvie SNINKTS out his Six Avenging Needles o' Deth, its all but over. I read a special comic I got from spiderman magazine years back, and Wolverine fought Abomination. Wolvie was one slash from killing him but held back because he didnt want to murder.

Vote goes to the Fuzz haired one.

PantherPriest

04/26/2003, 02:54

CAR!

OH, I knew it'd be a tie
CaptainAmerica 9
Wolverine 9

metz I have you as a wolvie, you were a bit unclear.
As were you anonymous, so you're a cap right now.

You guys can change if you like.

GAME ON!

The_captain

04/26/2003, 03:13

cap, becausehe is a better hand to hand because of his own style.(don't let me go into this i have twice already) Oh and the who "rip his shield to shreds" I don't think so. Captain America annual #8, sorry wolvie, not a scratch! Hmmm..who won that?:devious:

PantherPriest

04/26/2003, 03:22

CA 10
W 9

JINoside

04/26/2003, 03:30

I think i allready stated before that Caps shield is a much harder material than wolverines claws because of the addition of Vibranium. Caps shield is made of Vibranium and Adamantium. Wolverine could keep slashing and slashing but nothing will happen, they'll both get cancelled out........

JINoside

04/26/2003, 03:32

Originally posted by Steve Shady
Wolverine is the best combat expert in the xmen next to Psylocke as a melee fighter. He could crush Cappy flat. His claws would tear apart that shield and rip apart mr america. Sorry but its shield vs claws and once wolvie SNINKTS out his Six Avenging Needles o' Deth, its all but over. I read a special comic I got from spiderman magazine years back, and Wolverine fought Abomination. Wolvie was one slash from killing him but held back because he didnt want to murder.

Vote goes to the Fuzz haired one.

What issue exsactly is that?!?!? Thats pretty far fetched right their. Abomanation is a freaking beast, its hard to believe that Wolverine had him like that.........

TNC

04/26/2003, 03:43

Its not that hard to believe actually Wolverine also has beaten the Hulk in issue #340, I believe.

Just so you know Cap's shield is not made from adamantium it is a carbonamium and vibranium alloy, but still nat as hard as Adamantium, but is so close it doesn't matter. BTW, any attack Cap lands Wolverine will be able to heal from so, my vote goes to Wolverine.

Also if you guys want to talk about comics and battles, I recommend this site www.comixtreme.com

JINoside

04/26/2003, 03:44

Originally posted by hellboy19
What is this nonsense I keep reading about Cap being a better fighter?! Wolverine is a master of all forms of combat. Cap is a boxing master, and he knows judo and karate, which he has mastered, but he by no means is a trained samurai. Cap is an unparrelled on-the-fly strategist, but that does not mean he is better trained for combat. Wolvie can do just about anything in a fight when he puts his mind to it, he just doesn't usually need to use it, as most opponents aren't as trained as Wolvie. (Also remember, Wolvie is over a hundred years old, and he was training while Cap was frozen in the Atlantic.)

I think in a standard fight, given Cap's strategic skills, he'd pull off a victory. But if they were to go no-holds-barred, no shield or claws, Wolvie would definately win.

Captain America is called Marvels Best Hand-to-hand fighter for a reason. He wolverine may be older than Cap but wolverines brawler style isn't really much compared to Caps fighting style. He has his own unique style that involves acrobatics, judo, karate, boxing, and occational street fighting. Wolverine may be pulling the years on Cap but then again as i said before, Cap is fines fighter that fights back on whatever the opponent attacks him with.

Cap is amaster strategist also and as you said, his stategy skills(Wich is also what hes know for besides an incredible fighter)not to mentioned combined with his supperior fighting skills will be enough to defeat Wolverine.

Now about the no shield and no claws thing, if Wolverine hopes to beat Cap...he better pop out his claws. Wolverines a brawler na danybody that has read more than one of his comics knows that. He rellyes TO MUCH on his claws and usually fights with hooks and swipes, he allways leaves himself open....thats were Cap allways takes advantage..when his opponent leaves that opening. Thats when he'll strike.....

JINoside

04/26/2003, 03:49

Originally posted by TNC
Its not that hard to believe actually Wolverine also has beaten the Hulk in issue #340, I believe.

Just so you know Cap's shield is not made from adamantium it is a carbonamium and vibranium alloy, but still nat as hard as Adamantium, but is so close it doesn't matter. BTW, any attack Cap lands Wolverine will be able to heal from so, my vote goes to Wolverine.

Also if you guys want to talk about comics and battles, I recommend this site www.comixtreme.com

Its mixed in with some adamantium last time i heard. I went to that site...and to say the least the yellow hurts my eyes and its pretty un-organized. Theyres to many forums. I go somewhere else thats background isn't as bright as that one........

Threadbare

04/26/2003, 07:23

Jeez, this one is kinda complicated. It really depends on victory conditions. Cap could bring Wolverine down, but he wouldn't stay down unless cap went real ruthless-like and chopped off his head (and stuck garlic in it, and buried it under a crossroads with a stake in the body).

Ultimates-wise, Wolverine is the world's best assassin, Cap is the world's best soldier. this isn't an assassination, it's a fight. I vote cap. A disciplined fighter can take down a beserker.

superfreak

04/26/2003, 07:49

I would have to say that due to the following...

Wolverine is reinforced by Adamanium,and has huge razor sharp claws,been training for over a hundred years at every level and style of fighting,Has a regeneration factor of a troll, has animal hunting senses,and is simply balls to the wall tough...

Wolverine Wins.

Cap is awesome,don't get me wrong,and it wouldn't be a easy fight,but because wolverine has the advantage in more areas,he wins.(he also is more likely to "cheat" and that would factor in too)

DTM

04/26/2003, 09:28

Caps Shield is made from BOTH Adamantium AND Vibranium, so yes, it would definately be able to withstand Wolverines Claws.

Heres how I see it:

Physical Strength: Cap (Caps as strong as a human being can be, Wolverine has no superhuman strength level, so he would have to be weaker in this sense)

Physical Toughness: Wolverine (With his unbreakable skeleton and healing factor, Wolverine definately has it hands down in this category)

Agility: Cap (Again, hes as agile as any human being can be, and while Wolverine is VERY quick, he doesnt have any superhuman dexterity)

Fighting Ability: TIE (Cap is, as stated before (and by Marvel themselves), Marvels ULTIMATE human fighter. He trains CONSTANTLY to stay in that type of fighting shape, and routinely fights superhuman villians as well as "normal" human level ones. Now Wolverine is also an AMAZING fighter, who has also trained for MANY years. What also gives Wolverine an edge here, tieing him to Cap in my opinion, is his Berserker Rage. This enables him to fight faster, fiercer and more unpredictable than most anyone Cap has ever faced. This is where our two heroes are most evenly matched)

Weapons: TIE (Caps Shield is LEGENDARY in comics, as one of the greatest weapons ever. It can withstand nearly ANY type of attack, and he can use it with EXPERT ability. Wolverines Claws might not be as famous a weapon, but they are INCREDIBLY powerful, and like Cap with his Shield, Wolverine is a MASTER as using them. If I could give a SLIGHT advantage to either here, it would be to Cap, since he can use his Shield not only to block, but attack as well, and at a distance. Wolverines claws are basically for attack purposely only)

So in my opinion, Id have to give it to Captain America overall, BUT it would be very close, Id say 6 out of every 10.

lewdew

04/26/2003, 09:50

Do i sence a lil favortism?
Can you be serious?...
I did like your stats,but your choice is wrong.......
Even though cap america has normal human strength,wolverine is over normal human strength.......
So tell me,what is cap america going to do when he does not have his shield,and this pissed off man with razor sharp claws is heading right for him?..........pick up a car and throw it?..........NOT !!!........

Please re-evaluate your theory........cause you are wrong....!!!

Steelwraith

04/26/2003, 09:53

Comparing their stats in the Marvel Encyclopedias

out of a possable 7
Cap - Wolverine
Intelligence 3 - 2
Strength 3 - 4
Speed 2 - 2
Durability 3 - 4
Fighting Skills 7 - 7

This I think represents Marvel's thoughts.
Then there is the Marvel vs DC crossover that the fans decided the outcome. Where Wolverine took out Lobo while Cap was getting it from behind by Batman. Very undignified.

Granted the Super Soldier Serum boosted Cap to the peak of human ability but as a mutant, Wolvie wouldn't have that limitation. Even as the superior tactician Cap would still have to overcome Wolverine's sheer ferosity. Yeah Wolverine is going to take a beating but I think all it would take is a few lucky slashes of adamantium (as if scale mail armor would even slow down those claws) and Cap would start to weaken from blood loss. Then Wolverine would start talking about being the best there is.

Starfire

04/26/2003, 09:57

Cap v Wolvie.

In my opiniontheir powers, abilities and training all cancel each other out.
Some may say that Wolverines berserker rage gives him the edge, I believe that this would be his biggest liability against Cap.
It all comes down to shear force of will, and while Wolvie may be raging away, Caps indominatable willpower, sense of purpose and determination to prevail no matter what the odds would see him prevail.

DTM

04/26/2003, 10:01

Originally posted by lewdew
Do i sence a lil favortism?
Can you be serious?...
I did like your stats,but your choice is wrong.......
Even though cap america has normal human strength,wolverine is over normal human strength.......
So tell me,what is cap america going to do when he does not have his shield,and this pissed off man with razor sharp claws is heading right for him?..........pick up a car and throw it?..........NOT !!!........

Please re-evaluate your theory........cause you are wrong....!!!

UH, ok. Thanks for the kind words LD.

First off, Captain America DOES NOT have "normal human strength" He is as strong as a human being can possibly be, thats what the Super Solider Serum did to him. Hes as Strong, Fast, Agile and Tough as a human being can possibly get. Now while Wolverine is VERY strong and fast, he is NOT at a superhuman level, therefore he is somewhere underneath Capt A.

And how exactly is Wolverine going to get Cap to lose his Shield? Ask him politely to put it down and offer to fight him unarmed? Caps been using his Shield for a LONG time, and is not only a MASTER at attacking and defending with it, but at EVERY SINGLE ASPECT OF USING IT, that includes getting it back if for some reason it were seperated from him.

I also didnt think I was picking favorites in the slightest. If you look at my review, I made them both almost perfectly matched, and only gave Cap a slight advantage overall against Logan.

Ill wait for your reply, as im sure youll tell me how WRONG I am soon enough.

JINoside

04/26/2003, 10:17

Originally posted by Threadbare
Jeez, this one is kinda complicated. It really depends on victory conditions. Cap could bring Wolverine down, but he wouldn't stay down unless cap went real ruthless-like and chopped off his head (and stuck garlic in it, and buried it under a crossroads with a stake in the body).

Ultimates-wise, Wolverine is the world's best assassin, Cap is the world's best soldier. this isn't an assassination, it's a fight. I vote cap. A disciplined fighter can take down a beserker.

Yes. Wolverine could stay down if you hit him hard enough. Hes been knocked out by much less. Like i said wolverines a brawler and really down't have much control, Cap has a lot of discipline and control. Thats one of the things that makes me believe he could win....

JINoside

04/26/2003, 10:55

Originally posted by superfreak
I would have to say that due to the following...

Wolverine is reinforced by Adamanium,and has huge razor sharp claws,been training for over a hundred years at every level and style of fighting,Has a regeneration factor of a troll, has animal hunting senses,and is simply balls to the wall tough...

Wolverine Wins.

Cap is awesome,don't get me wrong,and it wouldn't be a easy fight,but because wolverine has the advantage in more areas,he wins.(he also is more likely to "cheat" and that would factor in too)

True, wolverine would cheat but then again Cap is the leader of the avengers for a reason and known as marvels best leader for a reoson. Wolverines been beaten alot of times before. The Adamantum does help wolverine alot to, but by the way you guys make it sound...if wolverines adamantium is so reinfourcefull then Sabertooth,punisher,deadpool,Omega Red and spider-man himself would have never been able to beat him. Funny, you mentioned "balls"....about a couple of months ago wolverine and punisher fought and wolverine lost because punisher smacked wolverine in the croch with a bat.

This fight has been done over and over again plenety of times before and the same factors for wolverine are pulled. Fact is, how are you goin to hit Cap if you barely punch straight? For all i know Cap has it planned out from the begging.....

Originally posted by lewdew
Do i sence a lil favortism?
Can you be serious?...
I did like your stats,but your choice is wrong.......
Even though cap america has normal human strength,wolverine is over normal human strength.......
So tell me,what is cap america going to do when he does not have his shield,and this pissed off man with razor sharp claws is heading right for him?..........pick up a car and throw it?..........NOT !!!........

Please re-evaluate your theory........cause you are wrong....!!!

Hes theory is pretty correct. Im pretty muched used to debating agaisnt wolverine fans and they always pulled the same thing, Adamantium and healing Factor. Let me shed some light, Wolverines healing factor is one of the most over rated things in comics and im not talkingB.S., its true. People act like his healing factor is actually something, his healing factor is actually really slow. Just a few months back the guy was running from a mob and he was gettin shot, bleeding the whole way almost fell but found some shelter. His healing factor doesn't exsactly heal as fast as its allways said to be. Lets see, did anybody read when he fought Venom? He pritty much got messed up, he tried to cut venom by stabing but didn't work completelly as he thought it would. He stabed venom but was shocked to see a healing factor, a healing factor that shocked him more because healed faster that his. Look, hes some people with healing factor, Deadpool, Venom, and Hulk....they got healing factors and surpass wolverines healing factor.

If Cap doesn't have his shield it still wouldn't pin him down as lost even though wolverines chances of winning are even greater. But then again if you take Caps shield away and leave Wolverines precious claws that is being B.Sed am i right?. So many people have actually attempted to take Caps shield in battle thats not even funny but fail because Cap is not stupid to have his shield out in the open and allways ALLWAYS keeps it close to his body at all times.

The strength thing, you'll be surprised how long that lil debate of whos stronger between the two has been out. Just like the fights people thought wolverine but after some extensive debating the saw it though. Cap is a Super Soldier, his stats are well above human levels, hes basically The Oinacle of human perfection and anybody that knows Cap knows this. That was the reason for the Super Soldier Project, to create the perfect fighting machine and soldier.Fact is, Wolverine isn't actually as strong as people make him to be. Theyre actually the same, Wolvie has picked up Colusus who ways around 900 something....Cap during training in the Avengers mansion regurlaly even though its rarely mention picks up 900 pound weights, iv'e seen him do 900 but never pass to the 4 digits same as wolverine. So theyre actually both the same strenght, and just to give the example IF wolvie would actually be stronger than Cap it wouldn't factor in much at all because Cap would know about this the minute the start(hence his strategy skills,prepare his mind and plan before hand)and will ovbiously be alot more cautious....

BTW, that scenario you just did.....if wolverine would come 'pounce' or come straight for Cap the way your saying...you might as well say wolverine lost because hes either gettin flipped or is gettin punched in the lower abdomen or other part of the body. Coming straight for Cap will leave wolvie open as an open book, literally........

JINoside

04/26/2003, 11:10

Originally posted by Starfire
Cap v Wolvie.

In my opiniontheir powers, abilities and training all cancel each other out.
Some may say that Wolverines berserker rage gives him the edge, I believe that this would be his biggest liability against Cap.

A tip for anybody that wishes to debate in wolverines defence is NOT to use berserker rage as something that would help him win because it won't. Cap and him fought and he was in his "Rage", he was out of controll literally. Saliva and eyes trwitching. Cap had it all planned out and it was amazing just reading his thoughts as wolverine attacked him. Wolverine pinned him once but Cap took him off with a swift kick maunever, it was a very good fight. Wolverine was out of control. When wolverine goes berserker, he goes Faster, Stamina raises, if you hit him alot, he could fell the blows but it doesn't bother him till afterwards, loses complete dence of control and just slashes and slashes. He goes into a very primitive form, as said earlier he is a brawler and that Cannot be denied. In his B.R(Berserker Rage), no control or sence of direction will be the factors of his downfall. When they fought, Cap punched hima few times hard enough that knocked wolvie off his feet and in even once he went trough a car windo, but amazingly wolverine just sliced the car like nothing and came back. Every swipe that wolvie put out was either blocked with the shield or Cap succesfully dodged it and turned it into an attack, most of the times a Judo attack where he would grab wolverines arm and thorw him. Wolvies stamina goes up, but Caps stamina from the beggining is very high(thus the Super Soldier serum wich increases stamina), wolverine is just catching up. in his B.R, it'll be very difficult for him to actually catch Cap because after Cap notices this he'll be even More cautios. So best bet is, Not to use the Berserker Rage as an aiding factor because as i just explained it won't............

sol

04/26/2003, 11:11

Originally posted by Zekeup32
Caps shield is made of Vibranium. Wolverines skeleton is reinforced with Adamantium. I know Vibranium is a very tough metal and is meant to absorb shock, like from bullets or Thors hammer, but I was under the impression that Adamantium was the hardest metal there is, meaning that Caps shield could pound on Wolvie all day and it would be like hitting a wall of concrete.

Cap's SHIELD being made of Vibranium is a mistake that is actually in print on Marvel's web site. The SHIELD is the only known alloyed composite of Adamantium and Vibranium in the world, created in the 1940s by Dr. Myron McLean. Captain America's sheild is the most impervious man made object ever created.

Calling Cap's shield vibranium is always a sure telling point that you don't read anything with Captain America in it.

sol

04/26/2003, 11:35

Wolverine vs. Cap - the battle even Marvel cops out on..one is the best there is at what he does, the other is simply the best there is. I have long held that this would be a battle for the ages.

Wolverine and Cap fought to the typical no contest in Captain America Annual 7. They then teamed up.

In the end, I would give this one to Captain America....or Wolverine...no, no...Cap wins.

Reasons? Sure. I got reasons.

This fight is of a different dynamic than the other fights (Cap vs. Batman, Spider-Man vs. Batman) because of Wolverine's healing factor and superhuman stamina. Captain America would have to go full out on Wolverine. Wolverine's gonna do that anyway.

In the fighting arena, Wolverine is one of the best HTH combatants in the Marvel Universe...he can do more than just brawl. His powers are designed to make him the best there is at what he does, which is mostly to take the most heinous of ###-whuppins and live for a new multi-million dollar Wolverine comic. We all know (from all the other posts by now) Cap's fighting ability, cunning and paragon level physiology.

Wolverine could kill Cap with one mistake using his claws, and they both would know that going in. Cap would go that beat up old shield of his, that's saved him time and again, for offense and defense. Man, this is hard to call.

At the end, I think Cap would outmanuever Logan until he could find a way (as always- good ol Cap) to beat him. If that doesn't happen, Wolvie will gut him. It's a matter of faves again...sigh. So I give it narrowly to Captain America.

sluggo

04/26/2003, 12:00

Caps the better fighter, but wolverine would win

imafineboy

04/26/2003, 12:22

Cap's shield is mostly vibranium but not entirely. The whole deal with Klaw a few years ago was in Captian America when he dropped his shield into the ocean and lost it for awhile, the vibranium in it began to decay. They made some reason about how after the Beyonder destroyed it the first time, Cap's will power reformed it, but there was a single molecule out of place. Over the years vibrations that passed through the shield (from impacts and such) spread misalignment, and created a "vibranium cancer" that shattered the shield and spread though all the vibranium in the world and threatened to blow it up. Klaw being made of sound used the vibration of all the vibranium on earth to increase his power by absorbing it. The absorbtion stopped the spread of the cancer and saved the world. Klaw then turned that power on Cap, and the vibration fixed the defect in his shield and repaired it.
In anycase, that is seperate from the matter at hand. I think Cap and Wolverine are very evenly matched. Cap might have a a lot of raw strength (he's lifted the back wheels of a Volkswagon pretty easily in the past. And I also remember that at one point he could lift more then Spiderman, Parker has been 'powered up' quite a bit since then though so its not a good comparasion). Cap has fought hand to hand combat for over 12 hours straight without becomming winded (and that was when he was dying from the super-soldier serum poisning his system), but wolverine has neigh-infinate regeneration (although the speed of which fluctuates wildly over his history). Cap is a master of serveral types of martial arts and combat and trains himself to absolute perfection in both skill and agility. Wolverine has decades of experience as well but relies less on finess to win fights and more on simply over powering or outlasting and wearing down his oponents. If you look at it a little differently, Cap is beyond peak human ability, which means he would win an olympic gold medal in every single event. He'd run less then a 4 minute mile, the fastest marathon runner, the fastest sprinter, he'd lift more weight then anyone else, he'd win every gymnastics competition, every boxing or martial arts event, any swimming event, theoretically he'd also be the best at any sport (i.e. hockey, basketball, curling) even so much as sycronized swimming or underwater basket weaving :p . I'm not sure of Wolverine's maximum ability limit but I'd imagine they are just about equal.
In a fight Cap would win the initial confrontation, Wolverine always takes blows before he goes all out. Wolvie regroup and counter, and the fight would escalate and last for quite a long time. The only loser would be the one who quits first. Which I think would be Wolverine, he fights out of anger or emotion where Cap fights out of reason. They would only fight if Wolverine wants to do things his way and he disagreed with Cap's Boy Scout -ness. Wolverine would just walk away and do his own thing eventually when he realized there was nothing really compelling him to Kill Cap.

PantherPriest

04/26/2003, 12:56

Well that was messy

Cap 15
Wolverine 13

Imafineboy, I counted you as cap. It's kinda hard to read your post.

TheYanger

04/26/2003, 18:57

I honestly don't see how anyone can keep talking aobut healing factor, it's a non factor in this case. Cap could backhand wolvie in the face with the shield and have him out cold, healing factor or no. He could pummel him so mercilessly that it wouldn't matter. I'm not a huge cap fan, I'm an Iron Man guy myself, but it doesn't mean I'm blind to the fact that Cap is the best non-uber bruiser in the marvel universe (IE: sure, thor is stronger, Iron Man is stronger...but, I mean DUH. Wolverine is NOT).
Wolverine has experience, sure, he's got alot of experience, I mean Origin took place in like..the 1850s or so? I don't recall exactly, but look at it this way, Wolvy hasn't been training all the time since he was born, Cap has been in constant combat or training since WW2, and even if you take out the time he was frozen, he's still got more combat experience than logan.

JINoside

04/26/2003, 19:24

I think it was allready settled:grin: :laugh:........

JINoside

04/26/2003, 19:34

----------------Argument and/or Debate Closed-----------------

sluggo

04/26/2003, 19:42

"Cap could backhand wolvie in the face with the shield and have him out cold, healing factor or no"

THe sheild would just "bounce" off his skull. Cap is the better figher, hands down. But unless he used some weapon not in his normal arsonal (like Ultimate Cap used a machine guy on Wolverine) he can't do enough damage to take Wolverine down.

PantherPriest

04/26/2003, 21:48

Sorry JINoside, this threads runs until people stop posting.

16-13.

sol

04/26/2003, 22:19

Originally posted by imafineboy
Cap's shield is mostly vibranium but not entirely. The whole deal with Klaw a few years ago was in Captian America when he dropped his shield into the ocean and lost it for awhile, the vibranium in it began to decay.

I think you need to read those issues again, imafineboy. Captain America's shield is an Adamantium/Vibranium alloy created by accident by Dr. Myron McLean. End of argument.

I can honestly and without ego tell you there is nothing you can possibly tell ME about C. A.

Criosphinx

04/26/2003, 23:03

Well, this argument can benefit from the same "comic" logistics going around in all the "Batman vs. Whoever" threads. Captain America is the pinnacle of human achievement, so he must be better? Wolverine's a mutant, that's a completely different scale. Logan laced with adamantium, so he's virtually indestructible? Well, you can certainly put him out of commission for long enough to drink his Canadian import beer. Arguments could go either way. In any sort of "real world" brawl, I would have to say Wolverine. He's the best there is at what he does. But, as far as comics go, Captain America does one thing: he wins. Doesn't matter how, he just does. I see the fight ending with Wolverine slipping into unconsciousness while Cap's telling WHY he had to beat him up (though clutching his gashed and bleeding midsection and looking through a thoroughly swollen eye). It's a shame, because I like Wolverine a lot more, but in a comic book, Captain America wins.

Steve Shady

04/26/2003, 23:07

Quote by I forgot
What issue exsactly is that?!?!? Thats pretty far fetched right their. Abomanation is a freaking beast, its hard to believe that Wolverine had him like that.........
____________________________________

ARGH DOESNT *ANYONE* KNOW ABOUT THESE COMICS? The ones sent by spiderman magazine when you cancel your subscription?????

JINoside

04/27/2003, 00:49

Originally posted by PantherPriest
Sorry JINoside, this threads runs until people stop posting.

16-13.

Dam, that pretty much sucks:laugh:. I like to debate but not for like three pages long of debates sheesh:laugh:........

cbenioff

04/27/2003, 00:51

Few things before I pick my winner...

Caps shield is made of a stronger material than wolverine's claws. Cap's shield is an aberation that cannot be repeated by scientists. It is basically an adamantium vibranium alloy (alloys tend to be stronger than their parts) but i think its a little more complicated than that. People can make adamantium this and that but no one can remake Cap's shield.

Wolverine possesses some amount of super strength... not sure if its from his mutation or from what the weapon X program did to him. So Wolverine is stronger than Captain America.

I think any marvel encyclopedia or editor would back me up on the above points. These are facts that I have taken as givens for a long time although I don't recall where I learned them.

In a fight... I think Captain America would win, but it would be close. I am assuming a K.O. means the fight is over even if Wolverine would wake up and keep the fight going until he eventually gets a lucky slash in.

Wolverine loses fights all the time. He gets knocked out cold all the time. Bonks on the head can take him down (his skull might not break but his brain will get sloshed around a lot)! Sure he always comes back and kicks butt but I don't see him as unstoppable as some people seem to.

I think Captain America is a better fighter only because he has to be. Wolverine gets to rely on his super powers and tends to fight somewhat recklessly. Wolverine also gets hit a whole lot while Cap is more adept at blocking or parrying blows and counter attacking. In order to win this fight he would have to hit Wolverine a lot more than Wolverine hits him.

Captain America also wins because he is the embodiment of victory and the American spirit! He would win in the comics even if it made no sense. So there :p

JINoside

04/27/2003, 00:56

Originally posted by Steve Shady
Quote by I forgot
What issue exsactly is that?!?!? Thats pretty far fetched right their. Abomanation is a freaking beast, its hard to believe that Wolverine had him like that.........
____________________________________

ARGH DOESNT *ANYONE* KNOW ABOUT THESE COMICS? The ones sent by spiderman magazine when you cancel your subscription?????

Steve that was me :laugh:. Trust me steve, i know comics. Im not like most people here that say X could beat x because hes my favorite..i tell it like it is. I don't read spider-man and am not one of his..shall we say.."Big fan", or small which ever you want so....i wouldn't know of this 'Special' magazine you speak of. To say the least....iv'e been in pretty big Wolverine debates, and iv'e NEVER heard of this encounter with the Abomanation and trust me where i debate...the people Know how to debate. Its not a Hero Clix board its a comic board.........

imafineboy

04/27/2003, 07:16

sol: <<<<<I think you need to read those issues again, imafineboy. Captain America's shield is an Adamantium/Vibranium alloy created by accident by Dr. Myron McLean. End of argument.>>>>>>

That's exactally what i meant...

The Ridge

04/27/2003, 08:23

Wasn't Wolverine a soldier in World War 2? If that's the case he'd have experience from that, and he worked Special Ops with the other Weapon X members. This all counts for battle experience does it not....

Sure Cap's got experience too but whilst he was frozen in the Ice Logan was still kicking butt. Although Cap's probably stronger that adamantium skeleton of Wolvie's is gonna make it hard to keep him down. Punisher / Wolverine comic showed that I mean he took a shotgun blast in the face and kept on coming!

Threadbare

04/27/2003, 15:30

Yeah but his mind was wiped so many times by weapon x and others, it's basically an etch-a-sketch. His fighting ability is still mostly instinct, while Cap's is basically all learned.

Thomiegun

04/27/2003, 15:46

hmmm....If Wolverine wanted to he would demolish Captain America, the only problem is they are allies. Sure they have thrown down,in the past, but neither had a big inclination to put the kibosh on the other. Not for nothin but pound for pound wolverine would win, hands down.

JINoside

04/27/2003, 16:45

Actually, wolverine thoughts erase by themselves...well some do. The same way he heals with his healing factor is the same way he forgets memories.

sluggo

04/27/2003, 17:59

"His fighting ability is still mostly instinct, while Cap's is basically all learned"

First Wolverines memories were ereased to make room for all the fighting and tactic info Weapon X wanted him to have. And Marvel has always listed Wolverines and Caps. fighting ability as the same (both are masters of every form). I think Cap would probably edge Wolverine out in fighitng ability just because he trains more, but Wolverine knows what hes doing and his powers are what would give him the advantage and are the reason he'd beat Cap in the end.

JINoside

04/27/2003, 23:06

Nope, Caps fighting skills are 10 while wolvies are below his. Cap is the only Marvel character with a 10 rating in fightin skill......

PantherPriest

04/28/2003, 01:00

I sounds like it is finally a tie. But you know what? I don't feel like counting continue in my absence, if you wish.

krone

04/28/2003, 01:39

Well I would like to throw in my 2 cents. Wolverine the best killer in the world he is a machine. years of fighting experince. the problem is his fighting style gets him hit way too much. Captain America is the best fighter in the marvel universe. period he proves it tima and time again. Wolverine can be knocked out that is proven. 1 or 2 sheild shots to the back of the head and Wolive os gonna be k.o.ed. BTW a good source for stats is the old marvel RPG thats what me and my friends use to solve ability debates.So my vote is for Cap.........and...uh its not because I have his sheild replica in my living room or any thing...cough cap pj's...cough cap posters ect.

sluggo

04/28/2003, 21:13

JINoside - The Marvel Encyclopedia lists both Wolverine and Cap at a level 7 for fighting ability (master of all forms of combat). Marvel.com has Wolverines fighting ability ABOVE that of Caps. So according to the two most relalible sources (and newest) they are either the same, and if one is better its Wolverine.

krone - If what your saying is true Wolverine would be getting knocked out ever time he gets in a fight, but he doesn't. Cap simply wouldn't be able to keep him down.

krone

04/28/2003, 21:40

Actually Wolverine gets KOed more than u might think I have been reading the Wolverine comic for about 3 years now ( I work in a book store) and I remember wolvie gettin KOed more than I thought he would so I think Cap could KO Wolvie. Also using the official Marvel stuff is the best resource we can but it tends to put the most popular charecters as teh most powerful.

Emerald Knight

04/28/2003, 21:46

Wolverine, no contest.

Compare powers shall we?

Wolverine
Claws
Healing Factor
Indesctructable Skeleton
Heightened Senses

Captain America
ummm...he has a shield....

Wolverine could cut the shield into eensy, meensy, little pieces. Captain AMerica lost his power. If the Captain did get lucky, and got in a few good hits, Wolverine would never tire out. Captain America would, however, it would just take a while.

JINoside

04/28/2003, 22:25

Originally posted by sluggo
JINoside - The Marvel Encyclopedia lists both Wolverine and Cap at a level 7 for fighting ability (master of all forms of combat). Marvel.com has Wolverines fighting ability ABOVE that of Caps. So according to the two most relalible sources (and newest) they are either the same, and if one is better its Wolverine.

krone - If what your saying is true Wolverine would be getting knocked out ever time he gets in a fight, but he doesn't. Cap simply wouldn't be able to keep him down.

Are you sure about this? Read the new updated official marvel encycopedia, you'll see what i mean. You could ask around or make a thread who has a better fighting skills, heck i'll make one myself just not here. BTW, marvel.com doesn't have those profiles anymore; and thruthfully.....all of those profiles are extreamly outdated..

Cap could take him down. Your underestimating the best here. And i quote "Wolverine is the best they're is at what he does, but Captain America is the best their Is"..

sluggo

04/29/2003, 00:13

"Are you sure about this? Read the new updated official marvel encycopedia"

Yes, I have the Encycopedia (Vol 1) that says lists both their fighting ability as 7 (the max).

And marvel.com doesn't have bios anymore? Well what are these then?
http://www.marvel.com/bios/index.htm

Cap is probably the better fighter simply because thats all he does, fight and train. He doesn't go out drinking like Wolverine does, but Wolverine isn't some brawler who doesn't know what hes doing and Cap wouldn't be able to KO that easy, the second Cap tried to use his shield as a weapon he'd have 3 claws in his gut.

Spider-fan 930

04/29/2003, 00:31

Emerald Knight, Wolverine couldn't slice Cap's shield into pieces. Cap's shield is industructable. As far as this fight goes, I go with Cap on this one. Wolverine tends to go beserk, and when this happens he swings wildly and isn't as accurate. As soon as this happens, Cap starts pounding Wolverine, because Cap is the better fighter of the two. Oh, though Wolverine pretty much can't be killed, I have a bunch of comics or read some where Wolverine get KOed.

harles2000

04/29/2003, 01:09

gotta stick up for the canuck - even if he is a canuck.

cap is too much of a boy scout, logan is plain nasty. any guy who can literally kill more ninjas in one issue than anyone has killed people in a single issue is pretty amazing. ok so cap can kibosh nazi's all day - he doesnt do the killing thing, logan has few qualms with this. and as far as stats go, i dunno, but it looks like theyre about the same from what everyone else is spouting. so tenacity and healing and inde-freakin-structible skeleton=make mine snikt snikt

CosmicBeing

04/29/2003, 01:16

Cap wasn't a boy scout when he cut off that one dudes head. Cap does whats nessecary. If that means killing, Cap will do it. He isn't quite the be nice to puppies and smell the flowers wus that people make him out to be. It would a fair fight.

Oh and Cap's shield is indestructable, Wolvies claws may be really sharp but he doesn't have the arm power to cut adamantium. It took a pissed off Thor the All Father to even bent the thing.

As for who would win I'm gonna say Captain America just because he's my special boy. In truth this fight would have not winner.

petenbailey9

04/29/2003, 01:27

Cap

sluggo

04/29/2003, 01:30

In truth this fight would have not winner

Of course it would, Wolverine. Cap could easly protect himself with his shield, but Wolverine also learns as a he fights and would just wait till cap tried to use his shield as a weapon and he's have 3 claws in his gut - fight over.

sychodog

04/29/2003, 01:46

I have to give it to Wolverine.

The last I heard was that Cap's shield was an alloy, but I don't think it had adamantium. Wolverine is a killer. Cap could be, but is not one by nature. I don't know if Wolvie is that much slower than Cap. He could be but I didn't think so.
I think if Cap were dumb enough to throw his shield he would be done. I think Wolverine's combat training and experience is better than Caps. Just think of the things Wolverine has faced in the danger room.

Wolverine, not by a landslide but fairly easily.

CosmicBeing

04/29/2003, 13:21

Have you even read Captain America? Of course his shield is made of Adamantium. Technically it IS an alloy since it has some vibranium in it as well. The adamantium is what makes it unbreakably hard, the vibranium is used for shock absorbtion. I thought the sheild's metal was as well known as wolvies skeleton.

They are both basically the greatest fighters in the Marvel universe. Cap is just as likely to learn Wolvies techniques as wolvie is to him. Neither of them will make dumb mistakes such as throwning away their protection.
Plus when Wolvie is training in the Danger room, Cap is on the streets fighting Super villians. Also the Avengers and FF both have their own "Danger rooms" they just don't have a name for them. Plus I see logan sitting around doing nothing more than Cap. You get no days off when you lead the Earths Mightest Heroes. So no, Wolvies combat training pales in comparison to Cap's. As for experience Wolvie doesn't even remember most of his life. So they are tied on that.

JINoside

04/29/2003, 16:34

Thats true, but i don't see Cap learning anything from Wolverine that Cap doesn't allready know.......

sluggo

04/29/2003, 18:36

"Thats true, but i don't see Cap learning anything from Wolverine that Cap doesn't allready know"

Except what it feels like to have3 adamantium claws pushed in your gut.

Steve Shady

04/29/2003, 18:43

"As for experience Wolvie doesn't even remember most of his life."

LOL!

maddhatter13

04/29/2003, 18:58

Guys, Cap is a SOLDIER, not a freakin boy scout!

If push comes to shove, Cap will not hesitate to end Wolvie( as he has done in recent issues to some pretty nasty terrorists, and as far back as his fight with Baron Blood). So, throw the Wolvie's meaner argument out the window!

Cap has years of "remembered" training and he is one of Marvel's most renowned strategists!

Cap was takin out hordes of nazis while Wolvie was off running with wolves.

It amazes me that people would even post on this subject when they know nothing of the characters( i.e. not knowing Cap's sheild is comprised of adamantium; a WELL known fact)!!

Bottom line is: It would be a good fight while Wolvie kept his cool, but we all now that wouldn't last!!

Once Wolvie goes berserk, Cap's cooler head will prevail and he'll use his hardened battle tactics to dispatch the ol' canuck lickety split!!

JINoside

04/29/2003, 22:38

By SluggoExcept what it feels like to have3 adamantium claws pushed in your gut.

I take it that you haven't read many Cap comics. Its ok. You could keep underestimating Cap.......your not the first.........

CosmicBeing

04/29/2003, 22:51

Thank you Maddhatter13,

I thought I had gone insane when the guy said he didn't think the sheild was adamantium.

I also agree w/ everything else you said.

As for the Wolvie not remembering his experience thing, I was serious, and if were laughing cuz you agreed then.....well......ok then, .....

*stands in corner*:noid:

sychodog

04/29/2003, 23:32

Well, excuuuuuse, me for not remembering the d@mn shield was adamantium. ;) It has been a few years since I've read a decent Cap story. Even though Cap was a soldier who has killed, I still think Wolvie would kick butt.

How about a three-way with Batman thrown in?

sluggo

04/30/2003, 00:14

"I take it that you haven't read many Cap comics. Its ok. You could keep underestimating Cap.......your not the first"

First, did you find that bios at marvel.com that aren't there anymore? Second I have read Cap and Avenger comics and Wolverine would still beat him, I would say if you don't know this you havn't read many Wolverine or X-Men books. Cap would be able to protect himself with his shield just fine but the second he used it as a weapon he'd find his guts on the floor in front of him. Cap simply couldn't do enough damage to Wolverine to keep him down.

"As for the Wolvie not remembering his experience thing, I was serious"

Maybe he can't rememebr some of his expereince but those memories were replaced with fighting tatics and skills, he was trained to be the best in the world at Weapon X and has another life time of experience he can remember after they ereased his memory (remember hes more then 100 years old).

sychodog

04/30/2003, 00:50

Wolverine has probably forgot more than Cap ever knew. Ouch :devious:

JINoside

04/30/2003, 16:20

[qoute]First, did you find that bios at marvel.com that aren't there anymore? Second I have read Cap and Avenger comics and Wolverine would still beat him, I would say if you don't know this you havn't read many Wolverine or X-Men books. Cap would be able to protect himself with his shield just fine but the second he used it as a weapon he'd find his guts on the floor in front of him. Cap simply couldn't do enough damage to Wolverine to keep him down.[/quote]

Theyre not theyre anymore. When the new upgrade to the site happened i guess they took em off. Most of those bios were Very outdated anyway so no harm was done..I do read Wolverine actually, almost every month as a matter of fact. My friend loves the guy so he collects Wolverine omics..Cap could knock wolvie out even if you don't want to admit it. Wolvie has been knocked out by less, a couple of shots to the back of his head would bring him down, it always has.

By using his shield as a weapon, i take it that you mean to 'throw his shield' right?. Cap wouldn't throw his shield unless he really needs to or if wolverine is so close enough that he wouldn't be able to dodge Caps shield if thrown at him. This would be a very poor move for Cap, he has enough sense as to not throw his shield much while fighting wolverine to reduce the risk of him actually losing it.....

sluggo

04/30/2003, 16:25

Before you make a fool of yourself anymore please check this link out before you say Marvel.com doesn't have bios up anymore. And outdated or not Marvel has always listed Cap and Wolverine has having the same fighting ability, or Wolverine being better, not the otherway around.

http://www.marvel.com/bios/index.htm

And sure Cap COULD knock himout, but to do so he would have to use his shield as a weapon (thrown or not) and the second he left himself open like that Wolverine would gut him.

DTM

04/30/2003, 16:44

Why would Cap attacking leave him wide open? Its not like hed throw his Shield at Wolverine, hed just BASH him with it, while he was using it for defense. With Caps strength, and the material strength of the Shield, a few good carefully placed shots should knock Logan out. Again, Im not saying Cap would win easy, far from it, but I would say hed win more often than not.

JINoside

04/30/2003, 16:49

Im not making a fool of myself:rolleyes: My browser allways told me an erorr when i tried to go theyre, that was last week. It said '404 erorr file not found'. I guess its up now..

Last time i checked the New marvel encyclopedia that came out not long ago....Cap had all notches filled up for fighting skill(if i remenber correctly, their was 8 max). I checked it through and Nobody not even Wolverine had it max only Cap..

JINoside

04/30/2003, 16:53

Originally posted by DTM
Why would Cap attacking leave him wide open? Its not like hed throw his Shield at Wolverine, hed just BASH him with it, while he was using it for defense. With Caps strength, and the material strength of the Shield, a few good carefully placed shots should knock Logan out. Again, Im not saying Cap would win easy, far from it, but I would say hed win more often than not.

Thats what im trying to say also. Cap knows hes fighting wolverine, he ovbiously knows about the claws, he wouldn't leave himself open like that..

sluggo

04/30/2003, 16:54

to hit Wolverine hard enough to knock him out Cap would have to swing it at him, leaving himself open - you can't use it to block and attack at the same time. Wolverine would gut him, that simple.

"Cap had all notches filled up for fighting skill(if i remenber correctly, their was 8 max). I checked it through and Nobody not even Wolverine had it max only Cap.."

No, the max was 7 and both Wolverine and Cap had a ranking of 7, the only two in the book. Please look this stuff up before you claim something.

sluggo

04/30/2003, 16:56

"Cap knows hes fighting wolverine, he ovbiously knows about the claws, he wouldn't leave himself open like that"

Once again, Wolverine is as good a figher as Cap and would find an opening.

DTM

04/30/2003, 17:05

Originally posted by sluggo
Before you make a fool of yourself anymore please check this link out before you say Marvel.com doesn't have bios up anymore. And outdated or not Marvel has always listed Cap and Wolverine has having the same fighting ability, or Wolverine being better, not the otherway around.

http://www.marvel.com/bios/index.htm

And sure Cap COULD knock himout, but to do so he would have to use his shield as a weapon (thrown or not) and the second he left himself open like that Wolverine would gut him.

Cool site there, but after looking through very briefly, Im not sure how much stock Id put into there Bio ability ratings. Yes it did give Wolverine slightly higher Fighting level than Cap, but it also gave the Punisher the SAME FL as Cap, and that just aint right. HUGE Punisher fan here, but hes certainly not as good a fighter as Cap.

It also gave Wolverine better Strength, Agility and Reflexes than Cap. Does Logan have superhuman speed, dexterity and strength, I didnt think he did and hed have to for this to be so.

Is this site an official Marvel site, or was it done by a Marvel fan with good PC skills? Serious question there.

JINoside

04/30/2003, 17:11

I personally have never seen wolverine look for a blind spot like you say he would. IMHO, hes a very sloppy fighter. He more than anybody leaves himself open. Cap in the other hand is a disiplined that allways choses his moves carefully. Iv'e read alot of Wolverine comics and he allways leaves himself open since his 'style' is mostly slashing. I Doubt that Cap would Ever leave an opening big enough for wolvie to 'gut' him. Cap is one of Marvels best, if not Best tactitians and strategist it has, its Extreamly doubtfull that he'll leave himself open without him noticing it..

So it was 7 eh, well i Did say "If i remenber correctly". Wolverine has more than a chance to win, but if he would actually Focus in a fight and slash like crazy i defitnelly Would(and i mean it) give it to him. But his lack of 'cool' and 'focus' in a fight makes me say other wise...

sluggo

04/30/2003, 17:11

DTM - Whether or not you agree with the stats is (and no offense) meaningless. They are marvels characters, if they rate them that way thats its, thats how they are rated. And those are offical (same as the cards and books etc...)

JINoside

04/30/2003, 17:20

Originally posted by sluggo
DTM - Whether or not you agree with the stats is (and no offense) meaningless. They are marvels characters, if they rate them that way thats its, thats how they are rated. And those are offical (same as the cards and books etc...)

But surely, you must see this mystake for what it is. A good number of those stats are wrong, heck thats why where i go to debate we don't use those stats not Even if they're in the Official site. So many mystakes........to many actually......

DTM

04/30/2003, 17:23

Really? Thats an official Marvel site? Cant believe that, since after checking through some more characters they give Juggernaut the same Intelligence as The Punisher, as well as giving Dr. Doom the same Durability as Punisher as well. (And Iron Mans Durability, only a 1 out of 7?) Now I find it hard to believe Dooms armor gives him no more protection that some kevlar, and Cain Marko is on the same intellectual level as Frank Castle, someone who routinely uses his smarts to get himself out of tight spots. This is really Marvels official site?

JINoside

04/30/2003, 17:32

Yes it Is, That is why i don't really go or even Use that info because it has so many mystakes as you also noticed. I closed that page in anger when i saw those stats for the first time before the upgrade. There are So many mystakes that its unforgibable and that None of those stats should be taken for what they are.......

sluggo

04/30/2003, 17:35

First they aren't mistakes, they are how the publisher and creators see thier characters. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't make them wrong.

Either way, EVERY marvel publication that Marvel has done (cards, books, website etc...) either has Cap and Wolverine as having the same fighting ability or Wolverine being better. Given that and Wolverines claws and healing ability he'd take Cap, it would be ugly and bloody, but he'd win in the end.

DTM

04/30/2003, 17:35

Wow......well, maybe they made some mistakes then, I truly cant see how they could have made some of those stats for some of their most popular characters.

DTM

04/30/2003, 17:39

Iron Man having a level of ONE for Durability and Juggernaut and Cylops sharing the same Intelligence level doesnt sound like mistakes to you, sluggo? I mean, every writer and creator has their interpretations of these characters, and thats good, but those levels, and a few others I noticed there, seem REALLY hard to believe.

JINoside

04/30/2003, 17:39

Oh yeah, those Are mystakes pretty big ones to........

JINoside

04/30/2003, 17:43

DTM, Stop while you still have your sanity:grin: . Just leave it as it is, its been like that for a long time. Just don't use those stats and thats it.....

DTM

04/30/2003, 17:47

Oh, I dont, Ive been collecting Marvel cards, RPGs and the Marvel Universe books for some time now, so Im pretty good at knowing the levels of certain characters. Ive actually never been to this site before today.

sluggo

04/30/2003, 17:59

"Ive been collecting Marvel cards, RPGs and the Marvel Universe books for some time now, so Im pretty good at knowing the levels of certain characters"

Then you know Wolverine is just as good a fighter as Cap is

DTM

04/30/2003, 18:08

Yes, I do, as I put on my first posting to this board back on page 3.

"Fighting Ability: TIE (Cap is, as stated before (and by Marvel themselves), Marvels ULTIMATE human fighter. He trains CONSTANTLY to stay in that type of fighting shape, and routinely fights superhuman villians as well as "normal" human level ones. Now Wolverine is also an AMAZING fighter, who has also trained for MANY years. What also gives Wolverine an edge here, tieing him to Cap in my opinion, is his Berserker Rage. This enables him to fight faster, fiercer and more unpredictable than most anyone Cap has ever faced. This is where our two heroes are most evenly matched)"

sluggo

04/30/2003, 18:14

they you would know they are always ranked the same - Wolverine would be more then a match for Cap

DTM

04/30/2003, 18:18

Uh, thats not what I said, but if thats your take, more power to ya.

krone

04/30/2003, 21:52

Not all marvel products rate Wolverine & Captain Americas fighting ability they same. The original marvel RPG has Cap as 1 slot higher than Wolverine in fighting ability and marvel reviewed and helped TSR produce it......so lets not include everthing in any of our statments any more.
Cap is the best hand to hand fighter in the marvel universe. That is that some may come close but nobody is there yet.

JINoside

04/30/2003, 22:35

Cap is the best hand to hand fighter in the marvel universe. That is that some may come close but nobody is there yet.

Amen.........

sluggo

04/30/2003, 23:15

"That is that some may come close but nobody is there yet."

The Encyclopida is the newst source and should be the one go by and it says they are equal. Plus the RPGis the only source that I've ever seen or heard off to put Cap over wolverine. Someone already is as good as Cap, Wolverine and he would kick Caps ### in a fight.

Quarantine

04/30/2003, 23:25

I agree that Cap is a better fighter as far as technique goes, but he has been WORKED by people who can mix technique with savagery. Wolverine and Sabretooth are the best at that. Wolvie would lose to Cap if it were all about technique, but Cap could never EVER outlast Wolverine (much less take him down) in a brawl.

Widdle Wade

04/30/2003, 23:36

Hmmm i dont feel like reading this whole argument so if what i say is redundant... too bad

Im not sure how many of you read Ultimate War? Well that Cap kicked Wolvie's arse

The reason being is that, that Cap isnt afraid to do what it takes, he has a killer instinct that the Cap in the regular marvel universe lacks.

Cap with Killer instinct will beat wolvie as in Ultimate universe

In the normal marvel universe i say the fight is much closer for the following reasons.

1. yes Cap has soo much experiance form the war and what not, but what people forget is that Wolvie fought in that war as well...... they met there, and wolvie also fought in many other wars, Experinace id say is a tie

2. Hand to hand combat, Now most of you are giving Cap the edge right off, Thats wrong, Wolverine is a trained ninja, and combat vet, his hand to hand skills are very close to Caps. Id give it to Cap only because he does more training and does not rely on a Healing Factor, Look how often Wolvie gets hurt.. and Cap dont. hand to Hand Cap just barely

3. Weapon.. Hands down wolvie has the better weapon, his claws are more than a match for caps shield, However Cap is no slouch with his shield, But I'd give the edge to Wolverine.

4. Endurance is probably wolverine only cause of the healing factor, but i dont believe the fight would last long enuff for that to come into being a factor.

5. Strength is definatly all Cap, he is enhanced human strength while Wolvie is just a strong human.

6. Senses.... Well thats wolverine hands down, altho Cap has better senses then other Humans he dont have animal level senses.

7. Willpower, well thats dead even, both of these gusy will fight to the end and they are just pure determination and fighting spirit.

8. Intelligence, now this is all Cap, he is the smarter fighter, not prone to losing his temper or berserker rages, Cap will outhink his opponent where wolverine just goes in swinging.

Now according to that criteria its a tie 3-3 with 2 ties

In a battle all wolverine really needs is one good deep swipe with his claws and he wins, so i'd have to give it to wolverine cause as good a fighter as he is, I odnt think he could finsih off wolvie without being hit, and wolvie is good enuff to get a hit in. That being said, if cap manages to trigger a berserker rage early he could use it to his advantage, force some mistakes and win teh fight.

In normal Marvel universe its 7 outta 10 wolverine

In ultimate universe its 8 outta 10 Cap

just my opinion, altho i think they are very evenly matched overall

cheers

sluggo

05/01/2003, 00:13

I did read Ultimate War (pretty disapointing) and I don't know if Cap shooting Wolverine is really considered a fight, plus before that Wolveirne took out half of the Ultimates and 4 choppers full of shield agents on his own. Plus thats Ultimate, so it should be taken with a grain of salt (Colossus beating up Thor?).

"Cap isnt afraid to do what it takes, he has a killer instinct" - Please, Wolviner is ALL killer instinct. Cap would try to out fight WOlverine at first, Wolverines first instinct would be to gut him.

"Intelligence, now this is all Cap" - I don't know if I would give that to Cap right off the bat. Wolverine has lead the X-Men before (not the longest stint as leader, but he has been the leader) and hes got a street fighters intelligence, which is very important in a fight. Wolverine knows he can afford to take some hits from Cap because they aren't going to do anything in order to get his claws into cap. Wolverines isn't a mindless brawler