Cosmic Justice in Inquest

[Draddog]

<CENTER><A HREF="/images/InquestCJ.jpg"><IMG SRC="/images/smInquestCJ.jpg"></A></CENTER>
The latest Inquest Magazine has this spread on Cosmic Justice. Click on the thumbnail to see the bigger image.

[Manchine]

New picks glad your up late there Draddog.

[W10002]

I don't like DC Heroclix, but this image is slowly changing my mind....

[logansixx]

Looks great. I am suprised to see Fury! And it looks like they got Penguin right on the money! Man, I can't wait.

[basilisk220]

penguin has CCE... OK
batgirl has psychic blast

apart from that it sounds really good wish it would have told us Ollie's powers though

[Manchine]

Well we know who's Wonder Woman's Arch Enemy is now.

[JackAssterson]

Waaauk! Waaaauk! Waaaaauk!

Pengy's here, and he's got CCE! JUST LIKE HE SHOULD!

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUK!

[jcastick]

God i feel Stupid Manchine, but we do??

[JackAssterson]

WW's AE would be Cheetah.

And I would assume Batgirl's psychic blast is to simulate her ability to go through any opponent's defense. She's just that darn good. (She beat Shiva, after all!)

Waaau....oh, never mind.

[thickvic]

Someone pinch me! I WANT THIS NOW...COME TO...NEED MORE OF THE CRACK... no seriously, very cool indeed, and anyone else wonder why the point value they stated is different than the Wizkids release of Superman that was put up Wednesday?

[hourman]

Who disses John Stewart like that? I mean really.

[KidInTheHelmet]

Green. Arrow. Hero. Clix.

*drool*

[JackAssterson]

I think the willpower comment was just that -- the dude was saying that this Johnny Boy has no willpower (but the Green mail away does, if I'm not mistaken)

[Manchine]

I might have to put my Hawkeye base on a Green Arrow Base.

ANd I cant wait to have JLA vs Avengers Battles.

OK I will admit I am getting excited over CJ. :laugh: :p ;) ;) ;) ;)

[KidInTheHelmet]

It says that John lacks the willpower of a Green Lantern, so does that mean the E might also lack the GL team ability?

[weezer_10]

Excellent paint jobs and scultps there. Just a month and a half until Cosmic Justice. :p

[Deathlok23]

The one thing I hate about Inquest is their silly hyperbole when you want just a little clue about a figures abilities. Green Arrow can do what? Sculpts look great so far though.

[AruthaEvanstil]

Awe.......some.........

o o
____
U
. .
.
.
.
. .

[AruthaEvanstil]

::puts tounge away::

They look great!
Well balanced powers that make sense and great sculpts.

DC comes through!

Got to admit, this sets just lookin better and better.

[Groo]

Ollie is definitely in.

Oh now the wait just becomes that much longer.

[Terman8er]

So what are all the confirmed clix now?

1. REV Penguin
2. REV Cheetah
3. REV John Stewart GL
4. REV Wonder Woman
5. REV Green Arrow
6. REV Black Canary



U Superman
U Bizarro
U Batgirl
U Fury
U Brother Blood

RUMORED FIGURES
Captain Marvel - Wizkids site
Kyle Rayner Green Lantern - Wizkids site
Legion of Superheroes member
Mystic member (see my site for possible characters)
Plastic Man as Mailbox - Boneyard (contact sighting)
Electric Blue Superman - Grendelboy (WizWorld 2002 sighting)
Green Lantern (Hal? Guy? Alan?) - PaladinKWA
Lex Luthor - PaladinKWA
Wonder Woman AE (Cheetah? Circe? Ares? Devastation? Silver Swan? Artemis?)
Brother Blood Acolyte
Poison Ivy - Avendoral (contact sighting)

I guess I woul dbet on Circe as being WW's AE.

[ArnoldFriend]

Where was Brother Blood Confirmed? Any idea on what he does?

Look, Inquest said Dark Supes is 223 pts.... but the preview said he was 218.....I'm betting Inquest ones are not final numbers?

[Terman8er]

Blood is "confirmed' because he is mentioned, by name, in an ad (Inquest iirc) saying, "Now you can pit the Titans agasint Brother Blood"...or some such.

[YouCan'tStopMe]

Originally posted by Deathlok23
The one thing I hate about Inquest is their silly hyperbole when you want just a little clue about a figures abilities. Green Arrow can do what? Sculpts look great so far though.

I liked the way they said John Stewart took over the mantle of Green Lantern when Hal Jordan was "Indisposed". Made it sound like he was taking a major #### or something.

JON: (Banging on bathroom door) Hal! Hal! The 'Lantern Phone' is ringing and the Lantern Signal is in the sky!!
HAL: (In bathroom) Aw christ Jon, I just came back from Taco Bell. Just take the #### ring and try not #### up and have any more planets explode.
JON: Whatever dude, try not to kill any corps members while I'm gone. (Jerk).

[KaiserSelroc]

Why doesn't WW have ES/D? Did she lose her braceletts along with the invisible jet?

[Heretic]

Originally posted by Manchine
Well we know who's Wonder Woman's Arch Enemy is now.
Where do you get that. I didn't see an AE base on Cheetah so it just as easily could be Fury or there could be no AE. I agree that if they have one, it will likely be cheetah, but there is no confirmation of this so it is just conjecture at this point.

[JackAssterson]

We've already seen Wonder Woman with an archenemey base.

[gjce]

so hus the next one?? i hope the electric blue supe.. hehe

[ciriquen]

I get no image with this post, and if I click on the box I get a 403 Access Forbidden message.

Can anyone send me a copy of the image or tell me how to correct this problem? Thanks.

[Terman8er]

Just noticed one thing though...it says this in Cheetah's description:




...just a few of this kitten's weapons against arch-foe Wonder Woman.

[metzgarob]

although i know nothing of FURY it says she originated in sandman maybe we will see him also

:p

[skeevo666]

I don't really read DC, but Green Arrows looks cool and Fury would work as just about any "supernatural" villain (Maybe a balrog susbstitute)

Cool, hopefully I can trade some Xcess XP figs for the ones above & whatever cool generics there are (If DC had a con-artist-type fig, would they call Naughty Girl . . . ?

[darius_dax1]

*insert Homer Simpson style drool here*

[DarthZaius]

Green Arrow looks pimp.

[bathawk]

but can anyone explain the rationale of giving penguin CCE? I relly don't see Penguin as a master of martial arts, now a damage of 0 wit RCE, that I could understand

[EVIL CAP]

Batgirl 40 some points and with Psychic blast?Shes the top martial artist on the planet and shes being touted as having an ability that makes her ranged attacks ignore defensive powers?At best it might be mis-colored incapacitate and from what ive seen any 40 point figure with incapacitate as its most distinguishing characteristic enerally sucks.Either way Bat-girl sounds ruined

[daedalus25]

Ruined? Hardly. Disappointing? Perhaps.

Her range is too short to make good use of Psychic Blast, and I imagine her damage will be too low to properly represent her. This girl kicked down a concrete wall using her own strength! I can maybe accept the Psychic Blast since she has deadly accuracy with any thrown weapon, but the lack of CCE really boggles my mind. Hopefully Inquest is a little off here. Their point value of the Dark Superman does seem to be off what was given to us earlier.

Either way, I'll still play her. Cheap Batman team figures are never a bad thing, especially if we get some good Legion figures too.

[bjmc1975]

Looks very good. Let's hope the set continues to be this impressive - the sculpts continue to amaze.

[Gargantua]

Oh, it's a beautiful thing this. And we're due for another preview today too. Drool. It'll probably just be a little more in-depth coverage of one of the new figures in this ad. I hope I'm wrong though. I'm waiting to see if Martian Manhunter is really going to appear in this set, and whether he'll be unique or not. Cheetah, Fury and Green Arrow all look pretty good, even if they did basically call Jon Stewart the substitute GL.

[Kinseeker1]

It'll probably just be a little more in-depth coverage of one of the new figures in this ad. I hope I'm wrong though

I hope your wrong too, no offense:) I'm hoping for a jsa or legion member

[Etrigan]

Very beautiful, like the pieces. Everybody asking what Green Arrows special power is, I think RCE is a safe assumption :) and probably if Running Shot if they're going to add that to DC. It mentions specialty arrows, so I figure incap is also a distinct possiblity. Like to see him have willpower, but I really doubt they'll give it to him.

[Bloodsword]

Gren Arrow may have EE as well. I hope. I also hope for a good range and 2 or 3 bolts.

[Tylk]

Oh phuuuulease....
I wasn't sure about Batgirl, now I know I want her. 40 points of Stealth,low-medium range (likely 2 damage) WITH Psychic Blast and she still has outwit to throw about on some other fig instead of wasting it on Inv/Tough/Imp.
With all the perplex out there, a range of say 6 (even 4) is hardly the end of the world.
I'll say again...40'ish points...not 70-80 or anything. People use BP as the 27 point outwit...ill pay the extra easy to be able to actually attack with her effeciently too.

Although most of us figured Wonder Woman would have SS/ED/Incap/CCE?....and nice stats, I'm hoping she will be the brute she is suppose to be. Right now it seems Incap/SS/Toughness?...I shall be praying then atleast on high stats and 4 damage.

[rabidroadkill]

All the great sculpts aside, just how does Batgirl stay on her base? I'll have to specially pad her bin so as not to break her. :)

[Keleko]

Note that this seems to be one of the cheapest figures yet with outwit.

[Spidersense]

I admit I was shocked when they said WW didnt have bracelets. But this may be a similar case to Mystique where you want to make the character more representative. Instead of Energy Shield/Deflection, they give her Impervious and Toughness down her whole dial with high DEF numbers. I think it will work out fine.

I could see Penquin with 0 damage with CCE maybe? Outwit him and he is nothing. I'm looking forward to see what power combinations they put together because I really think they are doing a good job.

[uroboros]

How exactly will the Penguin be able to have those 4 abilities (perplex, outwit, cce and leadership) when they are all on the Damage slot? Does he have one each for 4 clicks? Um... (scratches head).

[weezer_10]

The Penguin's abilities (CCE, Outwit, Perplex and Leadership) will be on seperate clicks. I think it's meant to represent his array of "umbrellas" that have different abilities. Like you see in Batman Returns, "####, I pulled the cute one."

[hisshers]

I didn't think Wonder Woman could fly without her bracelets. I know they deflect but don't they give her the power to fly or am I mistaken?

[uroboros]

So which umbrella is leadership meant to represent? But yeah, I'm sure you're right.

[Keleko]

WW's boots are what give her the ability to fly.

[weezer_10]

Originally posted by uroboros
So which umbrella is leadership meant to represent? The "Penguins... ATTACK!!!" umbrella. :p

[Dakion]

I'm still wondering why everyone is so hung up on things like Batgirl definitely being a unique... we've seen time and time again that these preview pieces are mock-ups, often on bases that aren't necessarily theirs... like we've seen WW on an AE base, and this pic she wasn't. Until I see something official from Wizkids, I'll doubt it and even then I'll question it... remember Iron Man preview had the wrong numbers on it, making everyone question "the pineapple", but it turned out they just put the wrong numbers on the preview.

[bjmc1975]

Well, this Batgirl fits as a Unique - she simply hasn't been around long enough to warrant an r/e/v. If it was something nonsensical, like Wonder Woman on a Unique base, then I'd question it, but it simply makes sense for Batgirl to be unique.

[Dakion]

I totally agree with you, she would make sense as a unique.... so would Fury and so does Dark Supes.
I'm just saying people need to realize there's a possibility that what we deduce from previews may not be set in stone
:)

[Eric Qel-Droma]

Wonder Woman naturally has the ability to fly, and has since the Perez reboot. The Hermes sandals allow her to traverse the rift between Paradise Island and Man's World.

The sculpts look cool, but the powers seem to leave something to be desired...

Eric

[OmegaMan]

Finally!!!!

Xplosion really disappointed me with all of its spare characters. Aside from the X-men and Iron Man, it seemed that WizKids was really stretching to find good characters. (Granted...they found a few)

But Cosmic Justice: "A" List heroes and villians. I haven't been this excited about HC since...well....since I discovered the game and hoped of pulling a Spiderman out of a IC booster pack just to see what he looked like.

:grin:

[heavyarms71]

anyone know the backstory on fury?
from the posts it sounds like a WW villian
thanks

[urlmaker]

Aside from the X-men and Iron Man, it seemed that WizKids was really stretching to find good characters. (Granted...they found a few)

Riiigghhhhtt... a few. And it is called X-Plosion thus the multitude of X-Men and X-Men villians.

Mystique (I play her all the time, major movie char)
Abomination (Major Hulk villian)
Taskmaster (Major Avengers villian)
Savage Hulk (nuf sed)
Manderine (Can you say Iron Man?)


I could go on. If you only watch super hero movies, I could see why you would think there aren't alot of good characters.
:classic:

[Kaitouace]

Kind of hoping Penguin had BCF for his sword umbrella. It'd be nice if some of those Batman villains besides Joker were actually usable on a regular basis. Not to mention have some different abilities instead the same character slightly rearranged a bit. (not counting Manbat and his taxi-ing)

Well at least Penguin got Leadership over Mastermind. But I wonder how much that'll bump up his cost? As cool as he is, those Batman villains are hardly worth playing as it is. Who's going to field a 70 - 75 point Penguin?

[ducko5]

Wonder woman DOES have an archenemy base in the picture. It's just dark.
Penguin is a leader. He's the head of his own organized crime ring.
Everything else looks great.

[LuckyJ]

sounds like Wonder Woman is going to have toughness and incapacitate.

Way to be overcosted and underuseful

[Ghost_Rider]

Batgirl doesn't have Psychic Blast, Inquest just can't tell dark blue from light blue.

Ghost

[uroboros]

"Batgirl doesn't have Psychic Blast, Inquest just can't tell dark blue from light blue."

Do you have any proof of that?

[Ghost_Rider]

1. Inquest makes more errors than not.
2. Incapacitate is pretty much a given. Psychic Blast is the LAST power she SHOULD have.

Ghost

[Mayberry Bat]

I tend to agree with Ghost_Rider & a couple of others that the PBlast mentioned for Batgirl will actually be Incapacitate. I've been following the new BG since the beginning. She doesn't have PBlast.

And in my opinion, looking at the write up of anything regarding Heroclix by Inquest should be taken with a grain of salt. I got the GL sendaway issue pretty much just for that. I read their take on the Marvel best figures and teams. It wasn't that great, logically or journalistically. I'm glad we got the pics, but I'm holding my breath on their writeups. They had Dark Supes with 223 pts. Jon L and the preview last week had him at 218. I'll take Jon and the Wizkids preview over Inquest's writeups.

[uroboros]

I didn't mean to imply that she should have it, I was just curious as to whether or not your statement was verified. Personally I hope she has incapacitate... and according to inquest she will. I also hope her damage is representative of her abilities but I'm having some very serious doubts.

[ducko5]

Batgirl with psychic blast makes perfect sense to me. english is her second language after body language, and she's DC's BEST martial artist. Psychic Blast simulates her ability to get through anyone's defences. It's a great way to show her unique abilities.

[Tarnish]

I ran the pic through qick and dirty Photoshop enhances. While I still can't make out the color WW is definately on an old style (arch enemy) base. Also brought out a lot more color and detail on Cheatah, Fury, and Green Arrow. I'd upload the pic but have no available web space at the moment. :(

Tarnish

[Kaitouace]

The picture mentions Batgirl having Outwit, Incapacitate, AND Psychic Blast so I doubt they're mistaking the colors.

[ducko5]

If you still can't see Batgirl with psychic blast, trying looking at what the power DOES instead of what it's CALLED. that should help.

[uroboros]

If Batgirl doesn't also have leap/climb I'm going to launch bags of flaming poo at whoever designed her.

[Mayberry Bat]

searched for units who have AttackSA = 'Psychic Blast'
Expansion Collector's Number Team Rarity Warrior's Name Rank Point Value
clobberintime ct079 NONE 3 White Queen Rookie 61
clobberintime ct080 NONE 4 White Queen Experienced 80
clobberintime ct087 NONE 6 Moondragon Unique 71
clobberintime ct096 MoE 6 Enchantress Unique 91
hypertime ht070 NONE 3 Gorilla Grodd Rookie 54
hypertime ht071 IL 4 Gorilla Grodd Experienced 76
hypertime ht072 IL 5 Gorilla Grodd Veteran 86
hypertime ht112 NONE 3 Arcane Rookie 74
hypertime ht113 NONE 4 Arcane Experienced 83
hypertime ht114 NONE 5 Arcane Veteran 96
hypertime ht118 SE 3 Brainiac 13 Rookie 101
hypertime ht119 SE 4 Brainiac 13 Experienced 122
hypertime ht120 IL 5 Brainiac 13 Veteran 133
hypertime ht123 NONE 6 Darkseid Unique 151


Not disagreeing with you ducko5, but I think we have different ideas of what PBlast is. The list above is all of the clix with PBlast. I just don't see Cassie Cain in that group.

[esfoad]

Originally posted by uroboros
If Batgirl doesn't also have leap/climb I'm going to launch bags of flaming poo at whoever designed her.

Cassie is surrently the very definition of CCE in the DCU. I sure hope neither of us will need to get our hands dirty for this one.

[Mayberry Bat]

Originally posted by ducko5
If you still can't see Batgirl with psychic blast, trying looking at what the power DOES instead of what it's CALLED. that should help.

Not trying to get in an arguement about this but here's the Wizkids definition of PBlast.

PSYCHIC BLAST. This character fires a mental blast. (Optional) Ranged combat attacks made by this character ignore any power that reduces damage.

I have never seen Batgirl fire a mental bolt. Knock the holy bejeezus out of someone with the bottom of her foot, yes. But mental blast, no.

[uroboros]

Well, I'd rather have outwit than CCE. It may be less accurate but it's potentially more effective. Either way, I'm saving my stool...

[ducko5]

Okay, Mayberry, you've got a point. I forgot that PB was speciffically a ranged attack. It makes less sense that way, but I argue that it's still a valid power.

[Basil Elks]

Is there a better pic?

[Tarnish]

I made an enhancement of this 1 if you want it.

Tarnish

[ducko5]

I also enhanced it. click on the mods and manips link. You can clearly see WW archenemy base.

[JacinB]

Anyone else wonder how much of it is actually accurate?

I mean, we know they've got Supes' point cost wrong compared to what we've been told in the preview (he was 218pts. in the preview, not 223pts.).

Is it possible that Wizard/InQuest just has no clue what they're talking about on some of these figures? Or perhaps that WizKids changed up the stats some after InQuest was sent their preview information ... ?

[Bloodsword]

I dont remember if it was Inquest or Wizard, but they had a preview of X-plosion. They said that Colossus could throw Wolverine with his super strength. I don't think they know what they are babbling about when it comes to clix. I htink BatGirl will have INC over PB.

[uroboros]

Several of these figs don't even have stats printed on their bases. That's a very good possibility.

[secretwarrior]

too....many.....batman icons

anywho, i hope to see some jsa mystics and legion.


i mean these all look like the "other" section of the set.


i still think the main ones will be jsa mystics legion and gl

i figure they could still do it despite the previews we've seen

[daedalus25]

I just noticed they said this John Stewart will have phasing too. Kinda negates the "Phasing" GL in the mail-away offer, no? Unless it's a huge difference in the amount of phasing.

The more I think about it, the more I feel Batgirl should not have PB, even if it represents her ability to throw really well. She's always been a close-combat bruiser, not a ranged attacker. I'll just keep hoping that Inquest got some mixed up dials or something. I'd hate to have to move my Batgirl sculpt onto the Unique Catwoman base =\ Which reminds me... they didn't even mention Super Senses for Batgirl, another given! *sigh*

I'll just pretend I didn't see this Inquest writeup and keep my hopes up. ;)

[SimonMoon5]

Originally posted by heavyarms71
anyone know the backstory on fury?
from the posts it sounds like a WW villian
thanks

You might as well ask "Who is Donna Troy?" but here goes...

Back in the pre-Crisis days of multiple Earths, there were two Wonder Women, one on Earth-1 (the Silver Age/Bronze Age Wonder Woman) and one on Earth-2 (the Golden Age Wonder Woman of the 1940s). The Golden Age Wonder Woman married Steve Trevor and had a daughter named Lyta Trevor.

Lyta Trevor eventually took the superhero name "Fury" and joined a group of other Justice Society brats, named Infinity Inc. However, Lyta Trevor is not the Fury being pictured on that Heroclix picture.

After Crisis, there was only one Earth, and only one Wonder Woman. Lyta Trevor still existed, but her mother had never existed in the new continuity. So how was she born?

Well, a new group of heroes in the 1940s came into existence, partially replacing heroes like Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, etc, whose 1940s incarnations were no longer part of the continuity. In this group (the Young All-Stars), the Wonder Woman replacement was named Helena Kosmatos, who went by the nom de guerre "Fury". She would eventually become the mother of Lyta Trevor (who would now be demoted to Fury II).

This Golden Age Fury is the Fury seen in the Heroclix picture (sorta). She's a platinum blonde wearing a gold chainmail outfit. In addition to her Wonder Woman-level powers, she can call on Tisiphone of the Furies of Greek myth to take over her body, granting her the power of flight, claws, etc, making her more powerful than normal. In this form, she looks like the figure seen in the Heroclix picture.

There have been some further complications with the character, but that's all you really need to know. Fury II is the character who was seen more in Sandman (seeking vengeance for the death of her husband) than Fury I (who was only seen as a woman without her powers). Fury I has recently shown up again in the pages of Wonder Woman, but the reasons behind this are too complicated to explain without first explaining some other complication to Wonder Woman's continuity, so I'll just leave it to your imagination.

[ThePope]

I'm glad to see the Green Arrow figure. It looks tough! I'm also happy to see the John Stewart figure, but he looks too much like Urkel without glasses.

[aj110]

my lord, those look sweet...but that isn't this weeks preview is it?

[jjs-thump]

These figs look great wizkids just keeps putting out better looking clix then the last set.

[jjs-thump]

no it's not I hope they show a fig we have not seen yet.

[Joe Kerr]

Psychic Blast for Batgirl.. ooooooooooookkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

So where is Ivy?

I wonder how many points Super Penguin will cost and will he have 0 damage with CCE?

[Thunderbolts]

It'd be nice if some of those Batman villains besides Joker were actually usable on a regular basis.

Yeah, Bane and Catwoman suck, and nobody ever used to use Harley Quinn before Mystique and Con Artists came along...

[eshuroger]

The other thing that's notably missing from the Batgirl description is Super Senses. She's the very definition of CCE, Leap/Climb and Super Senses, and these things aren't mentioned in her description in favor of Psychic Blast?

CCE for Penguin would seem to be for the various sword umbrellas and things he's used (I figured he'd be more a candidate for RCE). I wonder if that means Cheetah will have CCE instead of BCF? The description seems to indicate BCF, but there's still no verification that this power is coming to DC.

The Starfire description confirms that Running Shot is coming, and the Green Lantern description confirms Barrier, which gives a use for those Barrier counters that came with the starter. Telekinesis should also be a given, since Sinestro already has it, and GL will, as well.

Now if we see Stealth and Regeneration, I'll forgive the absence of BCF, though a lot of the candidates for Regeneration have already been done without it (Swamp Thing, Solomon Grundy, Doomsday, Superman, Hawkman).

[m1s1n]

Originally posted by SimonMoon5

There have been some further complications with the character, but that's all you really need to know. Fury II is the character who was seen more in Sandman (seeking vengeance for the death of her husband) than Fury I (who was only seen as a woman without her powers).

Actually Lyta was seeking revenge for the death of her son. While she also blamed Dream for the death of her husband it was the kidnapping (by Loki and Puke) of her son Daniel that caused her to seek out the real Greek furies. The furies agree to hunt down Dream because he killed Orpheus--his undying disembodied son. The furies destroy Dream's kingdom and ultimitely cause Dream to commit an act not unlike suicide. Those are the origins of the Furies in Sandman.

[Kid Zemo]

My theory is that Batgirl gets Smoke Cloud after Incap and that is the power that they mistook for Psychic Blast.

I don't have it in front of me but I seem to recall that the promotional poster sent out to retailers specifically mentioned B/C/F, Regeneration, Stealth, and Battle Fury along with Running Shot and one other as powers new to DC.

Kid Zemo

[JacinB]

I agree with Kid Zemo. And I'm certain that InQuest's people probably blew it on the preview as they tend to be totally clueless on anything but Magic.

[Ghost_Rider]

Yes, Smoke Cloud makes a lot more sense and the colors are pretty close. Definitely Smoke Cloud and not Psychic Blast.

Ghost

[bizzaro]

Originally posted by Thunderbolts
Yeah, Bane and Catwoman suck, and nobody ever used to use Harley Quinn before Mystique and Con Artists came along...

I'm not pysched with Batwoman, but Bane sucks? Gotta disagree with ya there ... I've seen people whallop other teams with him ... he just won't go down.

[bizzaro]

Hey ... anyone know if there were any other heroclix related articles in that issue of Inquest?

[Ghost_Rider]

Originally posted by bizzaro
I'm not pysched with Batwoman, but Bane sucks? Gotta disagree with ya there ... I've seen people whallop other teams with him ... he just won't go down.

I think he was being sarcastic to the fellow before him who was trashing the Batman enemies...

Ghost

[Ghost_Rider]

Originally posted by bizzaro
Hey ... anyone know if there were any other heroclix related articles in that issue of Inquest?

After the disastrous last issue, I'd be afraid to look. Personally, I would recommend Scrye for that kind of thing. Inquest puts all of their focus on Magic and don't seem to be very knowledgeable in other areas.

Ghost

[razz10555]

the green by god arrow, no matter the stats he'll always be on my teams

[sierralegend]

Originally posted by Bloodsword
Gren Arrow may have EE as well. I hope. I also hope for a good range and 2 or 3 bolts.


yeah, and sleath too...

[NickCarraway]

Ummm, I'm a Marvel boy but grew up on DC.

God those sculpts kill. hmmmm. . . .to DC or not DC, that is the question, whether tis nobler to suffer the slings and arrows (who knew WS knew of that awesome Green Arrow) of outrageous fortune . . .

feel will weakening. . . must buy plastic crack . . .

[bizzaro]

Originally posted by Ghost_Rider
After the disastrous last issue, I'd be afraid to look. Personally, I would recommend Scrye for that kind of thing. Inquest puts all of their focus on Magic and don't seem to be very knowledgeable in other areas.

Ghost

The last article on Xplosion (which was apparently written by JonL & Wizkids staff) was (sorry JonL) a disaster. Not only were simple errors made (like saying exp. Beast was only Defender in this set) but also had some really odd rankings for top 15 (or 16, I forget) characters. I think Destiny was #3 (cheap probability control is good .. but #3??) and was only behind Unique Green Goblin and Unique Spiderman. Kinda high, don'tcha think?

I didn't agree with the team rankings, but perhaps its because I've never been able to get the MoE affiliation to work well on regular basis.

[bizzaro]

Originally posted by Ghost_Rider
I think he was being sarcastic to the fellow before him who was trashing the Batman enemies...

Ghost

LOL. I must have been long overdue a cup of caffeine when I typed that.

[mercer]

YES!YES!YES!YES! Ollie Queen as Green Arrow! Eat it, Chuck Dixon! And Black Canary! And the Cheetah! And that demon-thing! Looks like a great set! Will it include Green Arrow's arch-nemesis THE RED DART??!!! Just kidding....Anyway, sign me up!

[Terman8er]

Originally posted by Keleko
WW's boots are what give her the ability to fly.

Dear God...NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wonder Woman has the inate ability to fly. That and super-speed.

Hermes gifted her with both.

Man...do you people even read the comics anymore? :)

[Kaitouace]

Originally posted by Ghost_Rider
I think he was being sarcastic to the fellow before him who was trashing the Batman enemies...


Eh. Other than Bane, what Batman enemy actually gets used on a fairly regular basis? Riddler? Mad Hatter? Clayface III? Other than Harley and Man-Bat who are one trick ponies you've got Joker who's decent and Catwoman who's......eh. I'm not "trashing" them per se but I'm kind of hoping that Penguin can be a better spot on a team than say.....Riddler. Or Mad Hatter or Clayface III for that matter.

[esfoad]

Originally posted by Kaitouace
Eh. Other than Bane, what Batman enemy actually gets used on a fairly regular basis? Riddler? Mad Hatter? Clayface III? Other than Harley and Man-Bat who are one trick ponies you've got Joker who's decent and Catwoman who's......eh. I'm not "trashing" them per se but I'm kind of hoping that Penguin can be a better spot on a team than say.....Riddler. Or Mad Hatter or Clayface III for that matter.

While your description is more accurate when it comes to more competitive, toruney based teams, I think many of the Bat villians were created true to form and enjoy playing them that way. Sure we'd all love to see every piece be competitive in and of itself, but it wouldn't be a completely accurate or realisitc (in comic book terms, of course) portrayal of their chars.

One on One standoffs between Bat villians and Bats himself? Here's what we've often seen in the book titles and how (IMO) they make the transition to Clix (fairly accurately when compared with the rest of the scale). Of the current Clix, there's really only one (Bane) that can stand toe to toe to Batman (two if you stretch to include Clayface):

Bane: Both in clix and comics

Catwoman: Not currently an issue in the comics anymore. Her R/E/V clix needs support.

Clayface: Hit and miss in comics and in clix.

Harely Quinn: A support character of her Joker in comics. She won't be duking it out with Bats anytime soon but (as with almost any char) can Outwit the Dark Knight by, say, dropping an opera on his head.

Joker: Can be written to defeat Bats via devices or other ploys. Again, not a direct melee player.

Mad-Hatter: Another thinker in the Bat villian arena. I can't remember offhand when he's defeated Bats hand to hand.

Man-Bat: Questionable. While he potentially Could give Bats fits directly, that was years ago. I'm a little surprised at his lack of bite in Clix.

Riddler: Would have no business going against Bats face to face despite occasionally having to do so. Another accurate Clix piece.

So Bane aside, the majority of the current Bat villian clix are the thinker pieces. The pieces that work together as a team (either with each other or with a group of generic thugs) to devise their plans an launch their assault on Gotham. Pieces that Could engage Bats directly in combat but would have to strive for that big hit to gain the advantage (appropriately represented by outwitting/perplexing our Knight and hoping for a crit. But not many of us do that unless we absolutely HAVE to). NOTE: I think they might have been able to help balance this out by releasing a generic Batman Enemy thug (maybe i.e. "Gotham Criminal"?). Possible a small step above the 'Thug' stats wise, but even if only to have the Bat Enemy team ability.

I believe this was appropriately transferred into the game and should be played accordingly. Nothing against those who choose to play this way, but I believe that much of the reason many of these peices are not played is because many players choose the competive play route (not the theme route). This competive play leaves little room to chance or realism and often finds the player using mixed teams.

The Bat villians still waiting to come to Clix give us the following and show a more direct damage approach:

Killer Croc: A definite brawler

Two-Face: A brute with a nasty crackshot

Penguin (confirmed): A hybrid of leadership and various umbrella tricks, he's also been explained time and time again to have underestimated strength, speed, and agility (which looks to have translated to CCE)

Poison Ivy: Though none of us will look to her for direct combat, we're all counting on her to be our mind control, poison, and incap goddess.

Scarecrow: Another piece usually thought of as more of a support piece (poison, incapacitate, perplex, etc) but he's another one that can throw a few punches (though he shouldn't pack much of a wallop).

To summarize my ramblings, I think future Bat villian pieces will see more standalone play while the current pieces are better left for team play. But not because we've seen umpteen Marvel sets since Hypertime, rather because the as yet released characters are better suited for that type of play.

[Gargantua]

Bravo esfoad. Nice analysis of the villains.

A lot of people dismiss the figures as non-competitive, but in doing so, they overlook their greatest strength - that team ability. Few team abilities reward thematic play as much as the Batman Enemy. No one's afraid of a Mad Hatter who can only mind control you on a roll of 9 or better, but give him Bane's 10 attack value and suddenly he's a lot more of a threat. Especially when you surprise your opponent who thought he was safely out of the Hatter's range before you had Riddler or Harley Perplex up his range. There's an awful lot of versatility available when a thinking player plays this team together.

[SimonMoon5]

Originally posted by Gargantua
Especially when you surprise your opponent who thought he was safely out of the Hatter's range before you had Riddler or Harley Perplex up his range.

Erm, even if you use both Riddler *and* Harley, you'll only reduce Mad Hatter's range. He has a range of 0, so he can mind control at a range of 4. If you perplex up his range from 0 to 2, that will be less than 4.

Unless you want him to throw a razor-edged hat or something in order to do damage instead of mind controlling...

[Kaitouace]

Originally posted by Gargantua
A lot of people dismiss the figures as non-competitive, but in doing so, they overlook their greatest strength - that team ability. Few team abilities reward thematic play as much as the Batman Enemy. No one's afraid of a Mad Hatter who can only mind control you on a roll of 9 or better, but give him Bane's 10 attack value and suddenly he's a lot more of a threat.

But the problem with that is that Bane is the only one of those guys you can do that with. It's always gonna be Bane and......because all the others don't have much of anything. Other than Bane, only Vet Clayface III has a 10 AV. And most people won't think a full dial of Shapechange is worth not using Bane instead. So that's really that much versality considering if you want to be somewhat competitive you're gonna have to use Bane everytime. And while Perplex is good, is it really worth using anyone else but Harley? Are you really going to use Riddler just because he has Perplex? So a Batman enemy team is reduced to basically a Joker, a Bane, and a Harley Quinn everytime. Throw in a Man-Bat purely for taxi purposes.

I'm just hoping that they get a few more villains so there can be some variety. Besides Penguin, a Poison Ivy and Killer Croc would be nice. But that team needs characters other than the typical Mastermind type villains. Besides Croc we've got guys like maybe Firefly (a different taxi) or Zzasx (not sure on that spelling) for BCF or a decent AV. The Batman Enemy team is good but it's only using a very small bit of its potential.

[MadHatter]

Mr. Freeze is another Bat-villain who could prove to be useful.

[boneyard]

Chiming in on the Bat-villian front...

Firefly, Killer Croc, Killer Moth, Charaxes, Mr. Zsasz, Scarecrow, Mr. Freeze, Poison Ivy and Blockbuster would all be welcome additions as clix characters.

As for Batgirl with Psychic Blast, I have the definitive answer...

Batgirl is an expert Martial Artist. She can "read" and defeat any opponent (get through their defenses and find their weak spot) - the only HC ability that allows a player to ignore defense modifiers is Psychic Blast. Therefore, that's what we get.

It's not meant to be taken literally folks, it's representative of what she can do in the comics, so calm down. :grin:

[lancelot]

boneyard! wow, you are ECHOING my thread..."Batgirl and Psychic Blast"...i was explaining to the HCR community why she had it, and i sure got blasted, lol

[eshuroger]

The Psychic Blast would make sense if it could be used in close combat, which is Batgirl's forte. It can't. CCE is what Batgirl should obviously have (and Super Senses), and it isn't mentioned in the description.

[lancelot]

well, maybe they dont have the entire dish on her yet...the next inquest will have coverage on cosmic justice, so i expect more beef to be served by then :)

[DarkCrisis]

ABOUT BATGIRL'S PSYCHIC BLAST

it comes from an issue where she met Superboy. He had his force field thingy up (I think he calls it his TK shield or something, basicly its a mental force field).

Anyways, she break through it to flick his nose (something like that).

He is surprised and asks how she did that (cause it should be impossible)and she doesn't really give an answer.

I got from it that with her skills and training in physical and mental abilities she can get through such things.

She is after all DC's #1 martial artist at the moment.

[richjwood]

Flicking someone's nose is Close Combat. Psychic Blast is for Ranged Combat. Getting through someone's defense is represented by Outwit. If they are dishing out Psychic Blast to Batgirl, why didn't PSYlocke have it? I think it's Smoke Cloud and that Inquest is full of... :mad: ....like they always are.

I personally think the other descriptions are bad as well. What's with dogging John Stewart like that? Superman's point value is WRONG. Inquest was wrong about a lot of HC facts when they rated the teams last month. They are wrong about some this time too.

Penguin doesn't need to have 0 damage with CCE....that would be very unnecessary. I'm sure that one of Penguin's trick arrows can do 3 damage. He sounds excellent.

Wonder Woman, you figure she would have Deflection.....bt hey, as long as her defense slot isn't plain old white, I'm sure there's a valid reason for giving her a different power. I'm sure I'll have a lot of fun gaming with these new figs.

[richjwood]

.I meant "trick umbrellas".

[Regault]

OUTWIT? On a character whose total battleplan is "Hit things until they stop moving."? And Psychic Blast, when the comics show her one critical flaw is her inability to deal with armored metahumans?

The guy who designs Heroclix is now officially a moron.

[esfoad]

Originally posted by Regault
OUTWIT? On a character whose total battleplan is "Hit things until they stop moving."? And Psychic Blast, when the comics show her one critical flaw is her inability to deal with armored metahumans?

The guy who designs Heroclix is now officially a moron.

The last thing I want to do is defend Inquest and their poor Heroclix reporting, but maybe they've mistaken Psychic Blast for Force Blast here? Not that FB would be better than Leap/Climb (debatable) but at least it would make more sense than PB.

I would accept Outwit (though I agree with you about her being a CCE expert, she Has been trained by the best) but given her amazing abilities I almost want to see her with a click or two of Perplex.

[Jadehorde]

Originally posted by richjwood
Flicking someone's nose is Close Combat. Psychic Blast is for Ranged Combat. Getting through someone's defense is represented by Outwit. If they are dishing out Psychic Blast to Batgirl, why didn't PSYlocke have it? I think it's Smoke Cloud and that Inquest is full of... :mad: ....like they always are.

I personally think the other descriptions are bad as well. What's with dogging John Stewart like that? Superman's point value is WRONG. Inquest was wrong about a lot of HC facts when they rated the teams last month. They are wrong about some this time too.

Penguin doesn't need to have 0 damage with CCE....that would be very unnecessary. I'm sure that one of Penguin's trick arrows can do 3 damage. He sounds excellent.

Wonder Woman, you figure she would have Deflection.....bt hey, as long as her defense slot isn't plain old white, I'm sure there's a valid reason for giving her a different power. I'm sure I'll have a lot of fun gaming with these new figs.

Well fo the most part I agree...though I will be angry the day Penguin can put the hurt on Superman or Doomsday, trick umbrellas or no....

[Jadehorde]

Originally posted by Regault
OUTWIT? On a character whose total battleplan is "Hit things until they stop moving."? And Psychic Blast, when the comics show her one critical flaw is her inability to deal with armored metahumans?

The guy who designs Heroclix is now officially a moron.

Hey, wait and see, maybe Inquest is wrong...they've been before, hell, like everyone's been saying they got the point total for Supes wrong...or at least different from the one on the Wizkids site...

[JacinB]

Originally posted by esfoad
The last thing I want to do is defend Inquest and their poor Heroclix reporting, but maybe they've mistaken Psychic Blast for Force Blast here? Not that FB would be better than Leap/Climb (debatable) but at least it would make more sense than PB.

I would accept Outwit (though I agree with you about her being a CCE expert, she Has been trained by the best) but given her amazing abilities I almost want to see her with a click or two of Perplex.

This is probably the best possible explanation that I've seen up to this point. InQuest probably got it wrong.

[Ghost_Rider]

Yes, Inquest is wrong. So don't badmouth the designers, you look like a fool trash talking without proof of anything.

Ghost

[JacinB]

Originally posted by Regault
The guy who designs Heroclix is now officially a moron.

The guy who believes everything InQuest prints is now officially a moron. :rolleyes:

[Scorpio]

Originally posted by esfoad


Two-Face: A brute with a nasty crackshot



Now Two-Face would definately be nice if it wasn't for one small little problem.

Every time you want to attack, you have to flip a coin.

[GianSingir]

MadHatter and Cosmic Boy, may be a nice Duo? The Batman
Enemy ability, lends to creative winning... If you can beat someone, like I have, with an all Batteam Enemy, they're stunned! I wouldn't play it in a tourney, but, an afternoon game of Batman Team vs. Bat Enemy Team, can be pretty cool... And who knows, r-Azreal could be Batteam Enemy?
In his miniseries, didn't they fight each other through most of that? He e version would probably be the Batteam Ability, and v no team...

And I can't remember who said it, but Barrier, is already on the DC PAC, even though, noone has it(except Sinestro)...

As for Inquest, they've always acted like they were auditioning for a writing spot on SNL...

[esfoad]

Originally posted by Scorpio
Now Two-Face would definately be nice if it wasn't for one small little problem.

Every time you want to attack, you have to flip a coin.

Joking or not, Two-Face is a Bat Enemy requirement. They've just got to decide how to best represent him in Clix.

But how?

-High end stats but a very short dial? (contrasting between Dent and 'Face)

-11 clix of life but "Hulk on/off" every other click or so? (coin-flip)

-Standard or expected dial length, but have his attack, and possibly damage value,jump all over the place? (coin-flip)

-Standard dial and stats with powers and abilities we'd expect from Two-Face, but have them all spread across the dial at random? (personality struggle AND coin-flip)

Or do we allow him to have a regular dial (like any other clix) and just accept the fact that, as a "Two-Face" clix, he made the appropriate coin flip before the game started?

There's gotta be other suggestions out there too...

[esfoad]

Would they go so far as to errata a new 'Two-Face Rule' into the game? They would probably need to give him some fairly appealing stats and/or lower point cost (to offset the following rule and make him worth playing) but the rule be something as simple as:

"At the beginning of your turn, roll 1 six-sided die. This power does not cost an action to use. On a result of 4, 5 or 6, 'Two-Face' cannot attack during that turn ('Two-Face' can still move)."

Make the roll? Attack away. Miss it? At least you still have the option to retreat, manuever for better positioning, or sit tight to flip again next turn.

Sorry I couldn't edit my previous post.

[Gargantua]

While the last is the most elegant and true-to-the-source solution, sadly it won't happen. They won't make a specific rule for just one character, unless it's a special release like Sinestro. Messes up the whole "all the information you need is right there on the dial" selling point of the game.

In all probability, they'll just go with the "assume he's already made the coin toss" option. Maybe they may give him a first powerless, low-stat Harvey Dent click, and then switch him back at the end of his dial again. Oh, who am I trying to kid. I have no idea how they'll do Two-Face. I just hope they do him.

[elvisdo]

Two-Face would have probability control. It's the only power that makes sense.

[gorillaboss]

Hey, I can see the Penguin with Close Combat Expert. He was supposed to be a decent "fencer" with his blade-tipped umbrellas.

I'd like to see him have Smoke Cloud, Outwit, Mastermind, too!

[gorillaboss]

I agree with ElvisDo...I'd give Two-Face:

) Probability Control
) Outwit or Perplex
) Mastermind

Seems easy enough.

[bjmc1975]

I still think giving PC to Two-Face - who tends to be a VICTIM of probability, not a manipulator of it - makes about as much sense as giving mind control to the Hulk because he gets controlled a lot, or giving mastermind to a thug. He doesn't affect reality for other people, just himself.

[gorillaboss]

I think you're being too literal, BJEtc...

Two-Face, in the comics, flips the coin to determine how he, (or his cohorts) is going to act. Sometimes the good side comes up, sometimes the bad side comes up. In the grand scheme of things, there are always dramatic consequences for each side.

I think this would translate very cutely into Probabilty Control. Sure, it's taking a little dramatic license, but that's how I play my HeroClix games, anyway...we always make up storylines or themes.

[bjmc1975]

Part of the reason I don't like it is I HATE probability control - one of my favorite aspects of DC is that no one has it. I really dislike the idea of gratuitously giving it to someone in DC who doesn't really merit it anyway. If they made Rip Hunter, or Chronos, and gave it to them, I wouldn't really complain. But cheap probability control is something DC really doesn't need right now.

[gorillaboss]

Great minds think alike, and now we can agree, Mr. BJEtc!

I'd LOVE to see a Chronos with Prob Control.

And, hey, you've got to be ok in my book...you actually know who Rip Hunter is! :)

[Ghost_Rider]

Actually, I could see a new ability for Two Face (because basically Hypersonic Speed was just for the Flash originally).

Fate: Declare an action for this figure. Flip a coin. If you win the toss, the action doesn't cost an action for the turn and the character isn't marked with an action token. If you lose, the action may not be performed (but it still counts as one of your actions for the turn). and the character is marked with an action token.

So basically, if you are lucky you could get entirely FREE actions out of the character if you win the toss. But it's risky, because you might waste actions if you lose.

Naturally, this could even be used for Dr. Fate. ;)

Ghost

[BudPalmer]

I actually like the idea but why throw a coin into a dice game? You get the same odds if its a 4, 5 or 6 to get the free action.

[Ghost_Rider]

Then it's safe from Probability Control. ;)

Ghost

[BudPalmer]

but why should it be safe from it?

[Ghost_Rider]

Because it could be abused if Probability Control was on his team. I think it needs to be safe from manipulation.

Ghost

[Concorde]

But they probably wouldn't make a new ability for just a guy like Two-Face anyway. He's popular, but not new ability worthy. A new ability would have to be for a really major guy like superman or the flash (which they alrdy did)