Marvel x-men comics question [Archive]

sluggo

05/08/2003, 00:03

Ok I'll try to break everything down for you. There are serveral X-Men books, each with its own cast and premise.

New X-Men - In my opinion this book is the best writen, but the art is sometimes lacking in this book. The team is Xaiver (who now walks), Cyclops, jean Grey, Wolverine, White Queen, Beast and Xorn (a new character who can heal). This book is mostly centered around the school (and it is a school) with many of the students playing support roles with the team memebers as teachers. The storys tend to be more personal (such as the on going Cyclops/White Queen affair storyline). There aren't different supervillians showing up every other week coming up with new reasons to kill the X-Men and the storys are much longer and deeper. For example - Morrison (the writer) created the Cassandra Nova villian, who wanted too kill the X-Men and destory Xaivers dream, but rather then it being just a 2 or 3 comic story the story went on for over a year and was increadbly rich, detailed and personal, with serveral smaller storys going on at the same time.

Uncanny X-Men - This is the "classic" X-Men type team, they go out on missions, save people etc.... The team is Angel, Nightcrawler, Husk, Havok, Wolverine, Juggernaut, Polaris, Northstar and Chamer seems to have joined now too (though I don't know how long Polaris will be around). Not much to say about this book - the storys are generally 3 or 4 books long, rotating villians etc... Like I said, just your standard X-men or Superhero book. Nothing to make it really stand out, but nothing to really hurt it either.

X-Treme X-Men - This is generally the best looking book, but I think its one one of the weakest in terms of writing. The team is Storm, Bishop, Sage, Thunderbird, Cannonball, Rogue and Gambit (though Rogue and Gambit havn't been around for about 5 or 6 books). The premise of this book is that Destiny died and Xaiver got some of her diaries (12 books, each told a different, but possible, future for human and mutant kind). The team members felt that Xaiver shouldn't have such a powerful book so they left the X-Men (cutting off all contact and connections with Xaiver and the school) and are trying to find and protect all of Destinies 12 diaries (though latetly they've been acting more like mutant police).

Ultimate X-Men - This is the Ultimate version of the X-Men. The team is Xaiver, Wolverine, Cyclops, Jean, Colossus, Beast, Storm, Iceman, Shadowcat, and Nightcrawler. This book is very good. If you don't know the Ultimate Universe its basically "what if these characters were created today instead of in the 60's" and is a new take on them. Highly recomend the Ultimate books (Ultimate X-Men, Spider-man and Ultimates (Avengers))

I hope this helped.

capfan

05/08/2003, 00:11

Sluggo- Thanks alot. That was very helpful and i'll have to give some of these other ones a shot.

sluggo

05/08/2003, 00:17

capfan - I suggest checking out the TPB for any book you start reading. The past storys are very good and can help whats going in the books now make sense. I very highly recomend Ultimate X-Men - The Tomorrow People and Return to Weapon X. As well as New X-Men - E is for Extenction and Imperium

Railbaronjake

05/08/2003, 00:23

If you started reading X-men about the same time I did (early 80s) and loved Chris Claremont's tremendous run with Byrne, Smith, Silvestri, and Lee, and left after Scott Lobdell promptly butchered everything (IMHO), then I think you'll like X-Treme X-Men the best. As sluggo said, the most beautiful, but I also love the characterization so much. Reminds me of the moments when the X-Men would play baseball or go hang out in the local bar and get in trouble. Those were always my favorite and gave the team such a great family feel, and Claremont really brings that to life again in X-Treme. Also, X-Treme is just now starting a new storyline which is the sequel to the classic, "God Loves, Man Kills." A great place to start off.

cbenioff

05/08/2003, 00:26

Sluggo's breakdown of the teams and the art and nature of the books is right on. If you are a fan of the X-men of the past then I would recommend Uncanny and Xtreme over New. New Xmen is pretty different from the other stuff and people seem to either love it or hate it. Personally I like Xtreme the best altho losing Salvador Larocca's art is gonna suck. Uncanny can be good but sometimes misses the mark... I still love the potential tho. New Xmen is basically Grant Morrison doing whatever he wants. As an old school comics fan this bothers me but some people are coming to the Xmen just because of Grant so its a double edged sword.

Everything nowadays is being released in trade paperback formats so you also have the option of catching up on past stories that way if you like.

sluggo

05/08/2003, 00:30

Railbaronjake - X-Treme is ok (the art is great) but I think Claremont has lost a step. His character managment has been TERRIBLE. Lifeguard just disappeared. Hes given no explination to where Gambit and Rogue have been latley, and Red Lotus was in and out of the book sfor 3 or 4 months until he finally decided to again drop the character with no explination. I also think hes really lose the original purpose of the new X-Men team, they havn't even mentioned Destines Dairies since the first story arc. Its a good book, but I think its the most poorly writen right now. I would like to see someone like Apocalypse introduced as a steady villian (who would logically want destinys's dairies) instead of these police storys with an always changing roster.

sluggo

05/08/2003, 00:37

I personally like Grants way of storytelling. Getting much more personal with the character (hes done more character development in 2 years then I've seen in X-Men books in 10 or 15) and instead of having lots of different villians coming out no-where one at a time to try and take over the world or kill the X-Men he crafts more of a story and intertwins different story's in 12 or 18 part storys which are great and much deeper then most comics today (Bendis tends to do this too). There was a real meaning to Cassandra Novas actions, she affected all the characters differently, the solution wasn't as simple as "stop her before its too late" and it wasn't just "she wants to kill us, we have to stop her". It really was a deep, involving, epic type story that had to take a whole year to tell.

megamania

05/08/2003, 00:37

As above but I would throw in these comments-

New X-men Tends to be more....thought provoking or contrivorsial. Strange backdrop of kids that are bizarre to the Bizarre folks.
SUMMER STORY- Weapon-X program

Uncanny X-men has been going Manga style (not the cutsey type) for art. There have been so many new artists/writers that the title as a whole dosen't flow well.
SUMMER STORY- Angel new powers, Havo0k's return

Extreme X-men Has been the best art easily of the titles. Though the idea of the team involved the diaries, they really have become more of a mutant police force.
SUMMER STORY- Sequel to Claremont's Man Kills story

Ultimate X-men is fresh and beginning to break away from the standard "history" a bit more. Wolverine is truely the nasty moraless character he ought to be. If you're looking for the X-men movie feel, I would go with this title.
SUMMER STORY- Cyke vs Wolvie since Wolvie DID TRY TO KILL him and nearly did so. Then something about wolvie on the run.

sluggo

05/08/2003, 00:46

megamania - Just a little thing, but New X-men is introducing something called the Weapon Plus program, not going back to weapon X

I also want to make it clear that I'm not saying only read New X-Men and/or that Xtreme sucks. I enjoy both and like both, I was just pointing out how I see the writing on both books.

Railbaronjake

05/08/2003, 00:59

Yeah, the recent mutant police stories are a little dry, but serve a purpose in showing where this splinter team fits in with the rest of the X-Men. Oddly enough, the same mutant police are in the current storyline of New X-Men as well, so I think it is something that was planned by all parties. I do definitely enjoy New X-Men. But, the feeling of X-Treme is of a family that loves each other, where the New X-Men is a school atmosphere in which the characters seem to almost hate each other. Just my two cents.

Oh, and on a related topic, Exiles, while not a classic X-Men book, is definitely one of the best books out now.

sliverbelt

05/08/2003, 02:23

Put My vote down for X-Treme X-Men, some people think that Claremont has lost His touch, but I don't feel the same way. I think people say that because They're probably more used to the action book it became when Claremont left, I could be wrong though.

Also Gambit and Rogue haven't been in the last few issues because they're powerless right now, They barely survived an alien invasion and were stuck powerless because of it. The Two lovers finally get a chance to be together, I think it's great.

megamania

05/08/2003, 02:42

Weapon Plus is the "90's" version of that program. The Government takes mutants and improves them to better assassins/spies. It was suggested Wolverine is is not Weapon X but Weapon 10. They are up to 13 such augumented mutants.

I'm curious how much of that relates to the Weapopn-X comic series. Should be some x-over but remains to be seen. As for preferences on comic titles and why- it's just like the ongoing dispute of Marvel vs Dc. It's what one likes and grabs their attention. For many it's Marvel, otrhers it's DC. I still wish Valiant comics was still around myself. I would love to see a PROPER revival of them.

Been meaning to create Clixs of Shadow Man, Master Darque and HARD Corps but don't ever seem to get around to it.

JamieMadrox

05/08/2003, 02:42

I'm just starting to get back in, too (Jim Lee's Batman books brought me back to the fold). I've found a great new comic shop (Earth2 on Ventura Blvd, for folks in LA), and am deciding upon titles. In my collecting heyday, I was mostly into X-Books -- X-Men, Uncanny X-Men, X-Factor & Excalibur.

Questions about other X-titles:

Soldier X
Is this the re-vamped "Cable" book? or, perhaps "Deadpool?" A good book?
Agent X
Ditto, as above?
Wolverine
How is Wolvie's solo nowadays?
X-Statix
What the heck is this?
Exiles
Ditto, above?

Also, what happened to X-Factor & Excalibur?

TIA

cbenioff

05/08/2003, 03:03

I just have to chime in on what Sluggo said about New X-men. I think that while character development is key in New X-men it is contrary to character development done by previous writers and thus should be taken with a grain of salt. Grant uses just as many villian of the week types but he tends to make them up himself as opposed to using known villians. His stories are very brief so a fight against a single group of enemies that lasts a few days may take 6 issues where as a similar fight in Uncanny would be 1 or 2 issues. I don't see that as a good thing myself but some people love it.

An example of how Grant is twisting things around is this Weapon Plus deal... its just silly Wolverine was not the 10th weapon plus guy. He was weapon X as were lots of other characters. Deadpool wasn't weapon VIII etc etc. I just don't like how he is running with such a silly idea that is contrary to everything we used to know without any regard for those that came before him.

That said... his stories are ok. Just extremely frustrating if you try to fit them in with everything else.

Dexceus

05/08/2003, 03:17

Well, after 8 years, I just finished reading the X-Men books I just bought. Mind you, I will not pass judgement on them after one issue a peice. (I don't think there are any real spoilers here, but if you are worried, skip it to be safe)

Uncanny X-Men. I can't say that I like the artwork. Some of the new uniforms (especially Cyclops) I could do without. Though maybe with artwork more to my taste I would like them more. The writing seems decent. There were some characterzations that I wasn't so sure about, but that could very well be because of things that have happened that I am not privy too (for one, Cyclops seems really, really a hard-a$$). Nightcrawler seemed a little bit naive. The overall storyline looks interesting though. Might have to see what back issues I can pick up at cover to find out about this Church Of Humanity.

New X-Men. I liked the art a lot. Maybe it is just me. One of the things that has kept me from coming back is some of the artwork I have seen of the newer stuff on the net. In the stuff I had seen, they all looked like teen agers. This looked good. The writing seemed REALLY good (come on, it's Morrison). So the Phoenix force is back? Interesting. Though looking at Xorn (is that his name) made me think of Morrison's run on.....what is the name of that book.....I don't beleive I've forgotten....anyway, Xorn made me think of Robotman in that series whose name I can't remember. Makes me wonder if Morrison is recycling. Again, may have to get a few issues back.

Extreme X-Men: I do like the art here. The writing seems to be pretty good. This is one that will take me a couple of issues to really look at. It looks like a good start though. Seems kind of timely with the movie and all. I think that I could really do without Storm's uniform. I know, even though she is not in this issue, I could deal without Rogue's. The story seems more self contained, that I don't really need to go get any back issues.

Exiles: I picked this up because I had heard good things and Magik was on the cover. I SO miss that character. I am so-so on the art, but I love the writing so far. We shall see.

Ultimate X-Men: I actualy didn't pick this up. Last week I picked up the first TPB (with the first 6 issues). I have to say that I love the art. The writing is really good. My problem is some of the characterizations. The more I wrap my head around the fact that it is an elseworlds story, the more I like it. No, these are not the REAL X-Men, but an interesting study of what could be.

So what are the opinions on Weapon X, Soldier X, and Agent X? Aren't all three of these supposed to be going away? What about the new Mystique series? How is Wolverine?

Speaking of Wolverine....how is it that he is in all 3 X books at the same time? Yeah, he was a busy man before, but it sorta made sense. 2 books had him at the mansion while the third had him in Kentucky.

Any other books people would recomend?

I have a feeling this thread will continue awhile with those of us returning to the flock getting caught up with what is going on. :)

megamania

05/08/2003, 03:18

Cable=Soilder-X cancelled this summer
Deadpool= Agent-X cancelled this summer

X-iles Sliders meets X-universe X-men members from ALL universes are grouped together by a poowerful force to keep the timelines straight. uh...yeah. People love the book though.

X-static- What if there was a mutant team that the media liked I guess. I can't say for sure since I have but one or two books with them.

Wolverine cancelled about now .....BUT returns to issue #1 this summer. Can't say much about it. I only pick issues I think I'll like. I'm not a regular reader of Wolvie these days.

Krais

05/08/2003, 03:27

Exiles (from what i can tell) seems to be a team of deminsion travelers... basicly we get to see people like blink and morph without them really effecting the continuim. X-static is X-force but not at all... They're a team that is very public and merchandise orientated. And apparently they drop like flies. Soldier X is in fact cable's new series and Agent X is in fact deadpool. I hear the name change came about because of some ownership dispute but to be honest i just read it on one of the forums and have no real evidence.n X-Factor ended with Havok's "death". Mutant X than filled that void(basicly Havok's "soul" was transported to an alternative universe were Havok led a group called the Six. If you can find back issues its an excellent read.). Havoks returned however. Excaliber was disbanded..(not entirely sure why) but there you go thats all of it to the best of my knowledge. so if anyone sees something wrong simply correct me and not get all up my face about it... (sorry happened once before kinda pissed me off)

Railbaronjake

05/08/2003, 03:39

Soldier X is the replacement for Cable
Agent X is the replacement for Deadpool
X-Statix used to be X-Force which went through a major revamp

All of the above titles apparently changed because Rob Liefield had limited rights to the names and was payed every time they were used.

Excaliber was (thankfully) cancelled and allowed certain popular mutants to return to the mainstream books.

Woverine is starting over with a new issue #1 with hopes of bringing a back-to-the-basics feel to the book. Don't know much other than it looks interesting, but it's been tried before....

X-Factor was nearly cancelled, but was replaced at the last minute with the very interesting Mutant X (which is not at all related to the current series) the premise of this series was that Alex Summers (Havok) was in a plane that blew up but somehow, instead of being killed, transfered consciousness with the Havok of another reality. This reality was like a continual "What If?" world with numerous 6-armed Spider-Clones, a feral Wolverine, an evil Reed Richards, and many more alternate reality takes on popular characters. (My personal favorite was Bloodstorm, a vampire version of Storm.) Anyway, this series was cancelled to make way for...

Exiles. In short, 6 different mutant characters from 6 different realities must hop from reality to reality setting things right (ala Quantum Leap), or face returning home to their own reality being screwed up or even face death. This is hands down one of my favorite comic series, ever. The writer, Judd Winnick, amps up the action, all the while developing characters that we care about. No series has made me laugh so hard, evoke so much emotion, or left my mouth agape in shock as this series has. You must read this book.

Hope this helps.

Railbaronjake

05/08/2003, 03:42

Sorry Krais,

You got your post in before I saw it.

Anyone else have trouble seeing the newest updated posts on this site?

Railbaronjake

05/08/2003, 03:48

Must...have...edit...button

four_winds

05/08/2003, 04:07

I just got back into comics after a 10 year layoff (X force and Leifeld killed collecting for me) and I am enjoying Ultimate Xmen in a HUGE way.Its perfect for me and I bought all the TPB to get me caught up with the story line.I highly recommend it to anyone and hopefully you will enjoy it as well.I've never read the other X titles except for uncanny but after reading all these posts I'll start collecting New Xmen as well,thanks Sluggo for the reviews!

PantherPriest

05/08/2003, 04:18

Claremont sucks; he may've been cool in the 70's but right now he sucks... a lot... a whole lot. I don't give a krap what's going on; what the story is; how you characterize etc. etc. If you don't have a good concept of dialouge you've lossed my attention. And Claremont has no concept of dialouge; or internal monolauge for that matter. I can rarely finish a claremont book without cringing; people just don't talk like that. However I had no idea that the books were destinys diaries and they were trying to keep them from the professor, that's cool...very. I might just buy a tpb

Morrison's dialouge isn't much better; but his concepts and ideas are cool enough that I read it anyway. This last issue, (jean and emma against a white background) was horrible; cyclops breaking down the wall was cool but the lines in it were 3rd grade material.

Uncanny was cool before Chuck Austen. But when I read the first issue that Chuck Austen wrote i nearly hurled. Awful dialouge, pointless characterization and badbadbad exposition no respect for what the writer previous to him had done. I dropped the book then and never picked it back up. However after reading a story of his I might change my mind. Which brings me to the book you all forgot; my favorite x-title.

Unlimited X-men. This has no general plot or focus; it is more or less several short stories compilied each month. They're usually in the present but sometimes they transcend time. They take different characters and put them in different situations and best of all it's always quality (cept for this storm story that claremont wrote in #39) as a matter of fact claremont even did an OK story starring the original new mutants, with mediocre dialouge. Mediocre is ten times better then the #### I usually see from him. Unlimited X-men allows you to take a break from continuity and just think about different things and relationships of X-men and all that is encompassed. The stories are very poetic and are written like well like a collection short Xstories. It's the only xbook that I read faithfully each month.

TheYanger

05/08/2003, 05:05

Let me guess, you're a bitter Priest fan who thinks anything done by anyone but Priest, is ####?
Not ragging priest, he's made BP into a great book again (and the crew is gonna be swell), but lots of his fans really bug me.

PantherPriest

05/08/2003, 05:14

haHA

Bitter? No, I'm mainly upset because I could do better.
I will admit that priest is the best in the business currently producing a book, there was a point in time in which I knew nothing of him. I like frank miller and bendis, and the guy who did uncanny before chuck. The reason I like Priest so much is because he makes it real; he creates something that is completely new. It's not a superhero comic nor is it a political thriller. More of the latter, if you must pick. But the reason priest fans love priest is because they arent' looking for your classic superhero comic. And Priest is one of the few who does that.

But no there are other great writers, hell I still read old stan lee stuff.

cyberglum

05/08/2003, 08:46

Morrison's come in for a lot of flack for what he's done on New X-men but to say his dialogue is bad is way off base.

Morrison is about the only writer who I can recognise from his dialogue and plot ideas these days.

Although I very much enjoy Ultimate Spider-man, JSA etc. no one can be as shocking and thought provoking as morrison ( apart from Ellis) these days.

On the point about the Weapons programes, I think Morrison is applying good logic here, i.e. X=10. After all, the X-man derive their name from Prof. Xaiver. So why would some secret Canadian goverment research facility, with no ties to the School, adopt their signiture X? The only reason letter X is associated with mutants in the MU is because of Xaiver...

The only reason I started picking-up the X-man again was because Morrison jumped on board. He's brought uncertainty, change and an evolution to the X-folks, something which has been lacking durng the Phalanx-Blood Ties-Twelve wilderness years....

Dexceus

05/08/2003, 13:49

Actually the X is not for Xavier. It is for the X Gene...the X-Factor if you will...that causes the mutations in mutants. The fact that Xavier's name begins with X is just something the writers threw in to be cute.

With that in mind, it makes a lot of sense that a program designed to turn mutants into weapons would be called Weapon X.

The fact that the X=10 is silly because it has already been established that the Weapon X program produced several differenet people and there have been several different people who have had the tittle of Weapon X. This has already been established in Marvel continity. Unless Morrison is somehow brilliant about how he does this, it will be a horrible retcon.

cyberglum

05/08/2003, 15:20

I don't think the X-Gene was ever mentioned in the first series of the X-men, in fact I'll stake my collection on it.

Sure writers have filled-in the blanks and added to the mythos over the years, but Dexceus, you're wrong. The X comes from Xaiver, and was not something cute someone chucked-in along the way.

In the begining they were Professor X's X-Men, thats it...

I understand your point about others being members of the Weapon 'X' programme, but most of those 2D characters (except for Sabretooth) sprouted from possibly the worst era for the X-men, when good ol' Rob got his mits on some of 'em and f*#ked things up.

Guess I think it's a clever, good idea the X=10, but I suppose I'm in a minority here...

Keep up the good work Grant.

bizzaro

05/08/2003, 15:32

Originally posted by sluggo
Railbaronjake - X-Treme is ok (the art is great) but I think Claremont has lost a step. His character managment has been TERRIBLE. Lifeguard just disappeared. Hes given no explination to where Gambit and Rogue have been latley, and Red Lotus was in and out of the book sfor 3 or 4 months until he finally decided to again drop the character with no explination. I also think hes really lose the original purpose of the new X-Men team, they havn't even mentioned Destines Dairies since the first story arc. Its a good book, but I think its the most poorly writen right now. I would like to see someone like Apocalypse introduced as a steady villian (who would logically want destinys's dairies) instead of these police storys with an always changing roster.

I totally agree. I really liked Claremont's stuff prior to him taking a haitus from doing X-men (around #3 I believe). I picked up the first few Extreme issues, and it just didn't clikc for me. It was getting too involved in technical gadgets, and it felt like characters were being introduced for the sake of being introduced. It just didn't click with me. It felt like he was trying to use an old forula or something to the stories and it just didn't work. Plus he tried to toss a some "cool" stuff ..like rogue's powers working oddly (she'd pop out wolverine ish claws for no reason) ....

bizzaro

05/08/2003, 15:37

Originally posted by Dexceus

New X-Men. I liked the art a lot. Maybe it is just me. One of the things that has kept me from coming back is some of the artwork I have seen of the newer stuff on the net. In the stuff I had seen, they all looked like teen agers. This looked good. The writing seemed REALLY good (come on, it's Morrison). So the Phoenix force is back? Interesting. Though looking at Xorn (is that his name) made me think of Morrison's run on.....what is the name of that book.....I don't beleive I've forgotten....anyway, Xorn made me think of Robotman in that series whose name I can't remember. Makes me wonder if Morrison is recycling. Again, may have to get a few issues back.

You're thinking Doom Patrol. Which was fantastic. Xorn is nothing like Robotman btw. I think Grant has a real good take on the X-men ... doesn't seem like he' rehashing old storylines like the writers of the past 10 years have been (though we'll see where the Phoenix force storyline goes) .....

bizzaro

05/08/2003, 15:50

Originally posted by cyberglum
I don't think the X-Gene was ever mentioned in the first series of the X-men, in fact I'll stake my collection on it.

Sure writers have filled-in the blanks and added to the mythos over the years, but Dexceus, you're wrong. The X comes from Xaiver, and was not something cute someone chucked-in along the way.

In the begining they were Professor X's X-Men, thats it...

I understand your point about others being members of the Weapon 'X' programme, but most of those 2D characters (except for Sabretooth) sprouted from possibly the worst era for the X-men, when good ol' Rob got his mits on some of 'em and f*#ked things up.

Guess I think it's a clever, good idea the X=10, but I suppose I'm in a minority here...

Keep up the good work Grant.

I think it was indeed the X-gene that gave the X-men their name.

However, I agree with your thoughts on the Weapon X program. I thought it was a nice twist on an old concept (which morrison does really well). Who is to say that the Weapon X program didn't result in several subjects?

I think Grant is doing a really fresh take on the x-men ... its good stuff .....

After the onslaught storyline in the 90s, I NEVER thought I'd read another x-book ...but when Morriosn took over I had to give x-men a try again ....

cyberglum

05/08/2003, 16:03

Lo Bizzaro,

My point is, the 'X-Gene" wasn't a term used in those early x-man, they were just reffered to as mutants

Don't think the term X-Gene was used for at least a decade and a half...

If someone can post a link to something that can convince me otherwise I'm sticking by this hypothosis...

four_winds

05/08/2003, 18:14

Originally posted by cyberglum
Lo Bizzaro,

My point is, the 'X-Gene" wasn't a term used in those early x-man, they were just reffered to as mutants

Don't think the term X-Gene was used for at least a decade and a half...

If someone can post a link to something that can convince me otherwise I'm sticking by this hypothosis...

Try the marvel directory,Im not sure how acurate it is but it says the Xmen were named so because each member of the team posessed an "extra" power that normal people lacked.Not so coincidentally (probably planned) the professors name starts with X and he adopted the code name professor X.

So it looks like both you,cyberglum,and also you,bizzaro are correct in your statements.

bizzaro

05/08/2003, 18:24

Here's something I pulled from an X-men movie review which may actually indicate that we're both correct.

"These denizens of this subterranean society get their name because they carry an X gene that distingishes them from everybody else. The "X" itself comes from Xavier -- Professor Charles Xavier, a visionary and a mutant himself, who trains young mutants, people he sees as gifted, to control their powers in the pursuit of good."

http://www.movieclub.com/reviews/archives/00xmen/xmen.html

I like the explanation ... X-men was named for the X-gene, which was named for Xavier. Ultimately though the X appears to come from "Xavier" ....

JamieMadrox

05/08/2003, 20:32

Problem is, some of you are talking about a marvel-sanctioned official timeline, probably created in the 90's to describe characters created in the 60's, and some of you are talking purely about the creation of a comic book and comic book names.

It's interesting in that you may both be correct -- the X-Men Comic, in the 60's, may have been named purely after Professor X, since there was no talk, at that time, of the X-Gene.

BUT...

By the time the "Weapon X" program was taked about (80's?), with the exploration of Wolverine's shady past, the "X" most certainly referred to the "X" gene.

So, while the "X"-Men may well have been named after Prof. "X," the Weapon "X" program was probably named after the "X" gene.

Morrison's explanation, placing Wolvie as "Weapon 10," would then, presumably, make Sabretooth & Maverick "Weapon 9" and "Weapon 11" (depending upon which one came before or after Wolvie), and put Deadpool around there somewhere as well. Since previous comics have labeled these folks (not sure about Deadpool) part of the "Weapon X" program, Morrison may have some explaining to do.

UNLESS,

In the "Weapon X" program, "X" is not named after a gene after all, but rather is simply a variable, where "X=sequential number of the mutant altered." In which case, all of those dudes could be part of the "Weapon X" program, and Wolvie just happens to be the 10th subject.

WHEW. Now my brain is tired.

sluggo

05/08/2003, 23:18

First about where the X came from. Ine Marvels, Monsters and Mutants DVD interview Stan Lee says he wanted to call the books the mutants, but he wasn't allowed to since no one would know what a mutant was. Since their teach and leader was named Xaiver and they had "eXtra" powers they became the X-Men. Thats how Stan Lee tells it and I'm willing to take his word for it.

And yes Morrison had added to the X-Men character development but hasn't contracted anything that has been done with their characters in the past (if anything I think hes gotten back to what they are susposed to be like). For years in the 90's you would never know that Cyclops and Jean had a relationship if you just picked up any given book.

"Grant uses just as many villian of the week types but he tends to make them up himself as opposed to using known villians. His stories are very brief so a fight against a single group of enemies that lasts a few days may take 6 issues where as a similar fight in Uncanny would be 1 or 2 issues."

Like who and when? It took over a year for the Cassandra Nova storyline to start and end (where most writers wouldn't have done it in 3 months). He has introduced one or two characters (like the U-Men) but he does as part of a large storyline - so the X-Men are dealing with Nova and the U-Men rather then just the old, episodic, one-at-a-time style that use to be used all the time. And if it takes him 6 months to tell a story (where it would take another author less time (though they wouldnt be told as well)) it doesn't make it storys bried but longer, deeper and more detailed. And don't look at something like Weapon X becoming Weapon Plus as a contridiction, its not. Its just giving us new information we didn't have before, hes enhancing the story and making it better. If comic writers didn't do that the storys would get very old, very fast. Look at Origin, did they change contunity by making Wolverines name James instead of Logan? No they just added something we didn't know before.

"Also Gambit and Rogue haven't been in the last few issues because they're powerless right now"

I know, but it was never dealt, it was never stated, we've seen nothing about them etc.... He just wrote them out. Same with Lifeguard, Red Lotus and now it seems Thunderbird. It really is the worst writen of the X-Men books right now. I also agree that Clarmont can't write Dialog anymore. I'm sick of Wolverine saying "Its a good thing I have this mutant healing factor or would have been dead there eh Storm" or Bishop thinking "if not for my ability to aborb engery I would been killed there".

KidInTheHelmet

05/08/2003, 23:44

I currently read Uncanny, Ultimate, New and X-treme.

Uncanny used to be my favorite, but lately it's been to all over the place both artisticly and storywise.

Ultimate is one of the best written and the easiest for new fans to get into. I've let my manager borrow the first three trades and the issues that followed and she loves it.

I really enjoy the school type setting for New X-Men and there are some big things happening in this book right now. It's tied with Ultimate as my favorite X book. I really enjoy reading about Zoron and the "special" class.

X-treme is the best looking of the books. Salvador Larocca does incredible work in this book. But lately Claremonts writing has let me down. I'd like to check in with Rouge and Gambit occasionaly as well as the other characters that were just dropped at the end of the arc.