Eight Cosmic Justice clix -- spoiler dial data

[GMSLegion]

My local got two promo boxes of CJ and had the figures in the display case. Here are the stats of their first clicks:

#7 ROOKIE PARADEMON SCOUT
13 pts, 6 range, 6 movement, 7 strength, 14 defense, 2 damage
--Yes, a cheaper flyer than R Vulture.

#15 VETERAN LEXCORP SECURITY
20 pts, 6 range to 2 targets, 7 movement, 8 strength, 15 defense, 2 damage
--Figure is a black woman in shades and a trenchcoat

#27 VETERAN MANHUNTER
46 pts, 8 range, 8 movement, 9 strength w/incapacitate, 15 defense w/toughness, 2 damage
--This is the "No man escapes the..." version, holding a power ring and battery.

#34 ROOKIE BLACK CANARY
21 pts, 4 range, 7 movement, 8 strength w/energy explosion, 15 defense, 2 damage
--Figure has JSA team ability. Neat sculpt, in the classic fishnet-n-jacket costume with her hands cupped around her mouth.

#40 ROOKIE TROIA
60 pts, 0 range, 8 movement, 8 strength w/super strength, 15 defense w/toughness, 2 damage w/CCE
--Figure flies with Titan team ability.

#42 VETERAN TROIA
98 pts, 0 range, 10 movement, 9 strength w/super strength, 15 defense w/toughness, 3 damage w/CCE
--Figure flies with Titan team ability.

#67 ROOKIE STARFIRE
67 pts, 8 range, 10 movement w/running shot, 8 strength, 15 defense w/toughness, 2 damage w/RCE
--Figure flies with Titan team ability.

#79 ROOKIE CIRCE
67 pts, 8 range, 8 movement w/mind control, 9 strength, 15 defense w/energy shield, 2 damage
--Figure has Mystics team ability.

The box featured color artwork of John Stewart and Black Canary. Figures shown on the box: Eclipso, Cheetah, Lady Shiva, Penguin, Circe and Mordru.

[I_Blame_You]

Can anyone provide some history for me on Circe and Troia? I'm unfamiliar.

[Brainiac 16]

Ouch. The chronically low attack and defense values for DC continue unabated.

[Grinner]

Originally posted by I_Blame_You
Can anyone provide some history for me on Circe and Troia? I'm unfamiliar.

Circe is the evil sorceress from Greek mythology. She is a regular opponent of Wonder Woman.

Troia is probably one of the most complicated backstories in modern comics.:confused:

Originally, Troia was the first Wonder Girl. Back then her history was that she was rescued as a baby from a fire by Wonder Woman. Her supposed family died in the fire, so she was taken back to Paradise Island and raised as Diana's little sister. She was magically granted powers similar to Wonder Woman and came to Man's World to join the Teen Titans. One of the best issues of the entire Perez/Wolfman run of the Titans, entitled "Who is Donna Troy?" dealt with her actual family and how she came to be in the burning building.

Then along came Crisis and things get messed up. Wonder Woman is rebooted as a new hero, only having been in the superhero biz from around the time Wally took up the mantle of the Flash. Now this made it impossible for Wonder Woman to have rescued Donna as a baby. Wolfman & Perez reunited for "Who is Wonder Girl?" and fixed this by having the Titans of myth (Rhea, Hyperion, et. al.) be the ones who saved her, raised her and gave her her powers. With this revelation she took on the name Troia and had a some change in her powers.

She was married and had a son. At one point she gave up her powers, later to become a Darkstar (an intergalactic police force like the Green Lanterns, but with power suits rather than rings). Then her family was killed in a car crash and things got messed up again.

Instead of Perez & Wolfman doing her next reboot, John Byrne did it in the pages of Wonder Woman. A magical villian named Dark Angel was taking Donna Troy, shifting her through time and making her live different horrible lives over and over. She thought that Donna was Diana, and was doing this to punish Hypolyta, who had defeated her along side the JSA in the '40s as Wonder Woman. Donna's new origin was that she was a magical duplicate of Diana, made without the knowledge of most of the Amazons, who was created to be a young Diana's playmate (immortal Amazons meant that there were no kids for Diana to play with). Dark Angel plucked the magical clone out of time and began playing with her. Living all of these different lives over and over made changes in Donna, which is why she no longer physically matches Diana. Dark Angel finally tried to remove Donna from the fabric of time. Diana used magic and Wally's memories of Donna to recreate her in modern time. (Hey, I didn't write this stuff, Byrne did)

After this she was given yet another new costume, this one basically her old Wonder Girl sleeveless jumpsuit with the starfield pattern of her old Troia costume. She is supposed to be pretty similar to Wonder Woman in powers and abilities now...until the next writer decides to change her.

And yes, this is the short version. It's much more complicated than this in the comics.

[sol]

Excellent recap Grinner...couldn't have done better myself.

[GMSLegion]

I forgot to mention that Circe has an yellow/orange AE base.

I wonder whether, in addition to Mystics, there might be an Injustice League logo on her dial. She was in Lex Luthor's Injustice "Gang" from the "Rock of Ages" storyline, with Lex, Mirror Master, Joker, Dr. Light and Ocean Master.

[I_Blame_You]

Yikes! Ask and ye shall receive! heh heh

I appreciate the in-depth reply.

[Manchine]

Well these are lower end characters so I can understand the lower stats. I am still holding my judgement on this set to see if I want to buy any or not.

[zaurial]

i'm sorta skeptical myself about these, (eclipso already? and mordru?) but i guess they could work. eh, no gust ne bust es den do ton du mest.

[Terman8er]

Dude...V Troia does 5 damage at B2B? YIKES! Imagine what WW will do.

[elvisdo]

Originally posted by GMSLegion
I forgot to mention that Circe has an yellow/orange AE base.

I wonder whether, in addition to Mystics, there might be an Injustice League logo on her dial. She was in Lex Luthor's Injustice "Gang" from the "Rock of Ages" storyline, with Lex, Mirror Master, Joker, Dr. Light and Ocean Master.

I recall reading somewhere else on this board that E Circe has the Injustice League team ability. V Circe will probably have Mystics again.

[MarkStewart]

Wow, sounds like they've really been watching this board because those are several figures that many people have been asking for.

[waaagh1]

Didn't John Byrne Do that Duplicate of Diana #### with WG and WW in his Generations storyline also? Now he is copying his own plotlines, geez what a loser!

[lancelot]

doesnt matter how this set is gonna come out, already got meself a CJ booster case reserved

[weezer_10]

Yeah I've pre-ordered a case of Cosmic Justice for myself through my favourite gaming store.

It's going to cost me an arm and a kidney, but in the long run it's going to be a lot cheaper than buying an equivalent amount of booster packs individually.

If I can at least get the Unique Superman, Unique Martian Manhunter and Unique Batgirl in the case, then I'll be happy. My chances are good though, because I think you're guaranteed eight Uniques per case. Eight out of a possible 12, the odds are in my favour.

[Gargantua]

So Circe has an AE base. That answers the who is WW's AE question. It was between her and Cheetah. Circe is more of a current thorn in WW's side, while Cheetah could have taken it on a more historical basis. Mind Control (only logical) and Energy Shield - not overwhelming for her points, but the Mystic Ability, that's the kicker. Can't wait to see what else she gets further down the dial, if anything.

Starfire's a bit less than I might have hoped. 4 damage is okay, but only 8 AV. :( But hey this is the rookie. Hopefully the E/V versions get better.

Parademon Scout - Excited that he's in there at all, and egad a 13 point flyer? Guess who's going to be seeing a LOT of map-time!

[lancelot]

12 uniques in this set? the first only had 10...

[Manchine]

Of course they are following the Boosters way like Marvel. 96 set 12 uniques.

[lancelot]

yet marvel had 150 figs, 12 uniques in the first set, whereas DC had 140, 10 uniques...strange, strange....

[Emperor Joker]

Leery as I am about previews, these look pretty good...

---------------

#7 ROOKIE PARADEMON SCOUT
13 pts, 6 range, 6 movement, 7 strength, 14 defense, 2 damage

---------------

Of course, I must now make a team consisting of Desaad, Darkseid, and eight Parademons. ;) Very cool to see DC get a Vulture.

--------------

#15 VETERAN LEXCORP SECURITY
20 pts, 6 range to 2 targets, 7 movement, 8 strength, 15 defense, 2 damage

--------------

Hmmm...doesn't seem to justify its cost too much. 20 points for a mediocre attack with moderate range? I guess she can hit two targets, but V Checkmate Agent can do the same thing, and she has Smoke Cloud and a longer range for only 16 points. Does the LexCorp Security have any powers? Or perhaps a team ability?

--------------

#27 VETERAN MANHUNTER
46 pts, 8 range, 8 movement, 9 strength w/incapacitate, 15 defense w/toughness, 2 damage
--This is the "No man escapes the..." version, holding a power ring and battery.

--------------

Eh. Decent, I suppose. Although at 46 points, I'm not very impressed.

--------------

#34 ROOKIE BLACK CANARY
21 pts, 4 range, 7 movement, 8 strength w/energy explosion, 15 defense, 2 damage
--Figure has JSA team ability. Neat sculpt, in the classic fishnet-n-jacket costume with her hands cupped around her mouth.

-------------

This, on the other hand...Black Canary looks to be a very cost-effective fig. Range isn't the best, but attack is pretty good for a rookie. I assume that later versions will increase in range, perhaps gain different powers. Stealth, perhaps? Or is that too Gambit-y? Leap/Climb I could probably see, too.

-------------

#40 ROOKIE TROIA
60 pts, 0 range, 8 movement, 8 strength w/super strength, 15 defense w/toughness, 2 damage w/CCE
--Figure flies with Titan team ability.

-------------

Wow. What a bargain! Between Troia and Dove, looks like the Titans are getting some beefy wimmen. Lack of Charge is a bit of a bummer, though.

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#42 VETERAN TROIA
98 pts, 0 range, 10 movement, 9 strength w/super strength, 15 defense w/toughness, 3 damage w/CCE
--Figure flies with Titan team ability.

-------------

See above. V Troia taxiing V Bane is perhaps the ultimate meat combo. 10 Movement? Yow! Attack is pretty low, but that's why hubby Bane is there to soften 'em up. ;)

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#67 ROOKIE STARFIRE
67 pts, 8 range, 10 movement w/running shot, 8 strength, 15 defense w/toughness, 2 damage w/RCE
--Figure flies with Titan team ability.

-------------

I'm not the biggest Starfire fan. All the same, she looks pretty good. Attack is low, but the powers are there. I expect V Starfire to be a pretty strong ranger, on par or exceeding Storm (she's better, if that fat 67-point cost for the rookie is any indication...).

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#79 ROOKIE CIRCE
67 pts, 8 range, 8 movement w/mind control, 9 strength, 15 defense w/energy shield, 2 damage
--Figure has Mystics team ability.

-------------

It's interesting to compare Circe to White Queen. Between the Rookies, the stats are comperable, but White Queen has more powers, and costs less. The rest of Circe's dial has yet to be revealed, but my guess is that the Mystics ability really jacked up her point cost. Overall, a pretty good Mind Controller for DC, and the team ability is awesome. I expect to see legions of Doombots using her as a team anchor in mixed games.

Good-looking figs, on the whole. My excitement is steadily growing for this set!

[Heretic]

Originally posted by weezer_10
Yeah I've pre-ordered a case of Cosmic Justice for myself through my favourite gaming store.

It's going to cost me an arm and a kidney, but in the long run it's going to be a lot cheaper than buying an equivalent amount of booster packs individually.

If I can at least get the Unique Superman, Unique Martian Manhunter and Unique Batgirl in the case, then I'll be happy. My chances are good though, because I think you're guaranteed eight Uniques per case. Eight out of a possible 12, the odds are in my favour.
There is no Guarantee that you will get 8 different U's and is quite likely that you will get at least 1 duplicate. My case of XP had 2 duplicate U's (spidey and Phoenix)

[GaMBiT THe ACe]

hmmm alot of them seem over priced, if the only powers they have are listed... but 13 pt flier seems nice

[JayThor]

Originally posted by Emperor Joker
[
Wow. What a bargain! Between Troia and Dove, looks like the Titans are getting some beefy wimmen. Lack of Charge is a bit of a bummer, though.

[/B] Wimmen? Come on, the education system in the US isn't that bad. WOMEN, dude, get it right, they are half of the world population. ;)

[Cell]

Why arent the Manhunters GL Team? thats just disapointing

[WarHULK]

How about because they're not really part of the Green Lantern Corps.? That's just my guess...

[JayThor]

And they would be too expensive for generics.

[Heimdall]

@GMSLegion: Could you please check again and see if the Lexcorp Security has Superman Enemy TA?

Thx,
Heimdall

[WarHULK]

Other people have reported the Lexcorp figures as being Supes Enemy team so I'd asume yes... which would also justify the price.

[Veggiehater]

Originally posted by WarHULK
Other people have reported the Lexcorp figures as being Supes Enemy team so I'd asume yes... which would also justify the price.

As I recall from clicking through the Veteran version in my local shop, the LC Security had no team ability IIRC.

I guess that most of the points went into a deep dial (for a generic) not a figure I was excited about at all.

Some other stuff while I'm here, sorry if this has already been posted but I've been off the net for a long time.

Lady Shiva has: 8 Stealth, 9 Psy Blast, 16(?) Super Senses and 1 CCE on her first click (she's the combat dial fig on the back of the pack) 4 range and was something like 40 points

Eclipso had 3 clicks of 4 damage and at 2 or 3 clicks of 3 damager.

Lexcorp Battlesuit R was 27 points, 6 range, flying, Superman Enemy and had 4 clicks of life with no powers. It's most dissappointing trait is it's speed, a measly 6,6,5,4.

Saturn Girl had 4 clicks of perplex and mind control on her E version.

Penguin Vet starts with leadership (1 click) followed by perplex (3? clicks). No CCE, etc on this version.

The next time I go downtown I'll take down notes and provide complete stats for all 7 figs the shop has (pulled 2 Penguin V).

Hope this helps,
VH

[Ghost_Rider]

Supposedly only the Battlesuits have the Superman Enemy team ability. The security has no team.

Ghost

[esfoad]

Originally posted by Veggiehater
Lady Shiva has: 8 Stealth, 9 Psy Blast, 16(?) Super Senses and 1 CCE on her first click (she's the combat dial fig on the back of the pack) 4 range and was something like 40 points

Thanks for all of the extra info, VH!

As for Shiva and Psy Blast, that should confirm the buzz of Batgirl having it too. Hopefully BG will have the CCE too. Such inexpensive point costs for both Batgirl and Lady Shiva. I wonder if that means they'll have shallow dials (under the mindset that not many should actually be able to make contact with them... though given that, I wish they'd have at least a 17 defense).

[Ghost_Rider]

Psychic Blast doesn't sound right for Shiva or Batgirl. Incapacitate sounds more likely and more probable.

Ghost

[elvisdo]

Incapacitate maybe, but I understand what they are trying to do with both Lady Shiva and Batgirl... these two are the most deadliest people on the planet who can get by anyone's defenses, hence the Psychic Blast power. Granted Pyschic Blast can only be used as a ranged attack but it probably comes close to simulating what they can do.

[Ghost_Rider]

I really don't buy that. Psychic Blast means Psychic Blast. Everyone that has the power currently, has actual Psychic Blast in the comics. Shiva and Batgirl don't. Sure, they may be very dangerous in close combat but Psychic Blast is a RANGED power. They aren't as deadly via range as they are up close. Furthermore, it would be much easier (and make much more sense) just to give them higher damage or Close Combat Expert. That's why I believe this Psychic Blast mentioning to be a mistake. It just doesn't make sense otherwise.

Ghost

[tyroclix]

I agree with Ghost Rider. DC had a number of squirrely colors in HT. I have a Blue Beetle that I still can't tell if he has Toughness or Super Senses - it is neither Red nor Orange, but a combo of the two.

The proof will be once we all see her, but my money is on Incapacitate.

[tyroclix]

Actually I do have proof positive. I just remembered, I have a Plastic Man with the same 'problem'. His Incapacitate is colored EXACTLY like Psychic Blast -- unless of course I've been using him wrong all this time...

[Veggiehater]

Ghost,

I saw what I saw and it was Psychic Blast. That Blue was definately dark, just as dark as oh, Penguin's Mastermind (3-4 clicks).

Anyway to remove any doubt, the numbers were printed white, not black which you would find on incap's shade of blue. I agree that it's a pretty lame cop-out, but hey...

BTW Shiva is wearing some sort of brown or orange robe.

As for my earlier post sorry about the wierd grammar, I was really sleepy, heck even I can't understand what I posted back there. So to clear things up...

Eclipso does 4 damage on his first 3 clicks. He does 3 damage on the next 2 to 3 clicks. So for at least 5 clicks he can hit through invul or imperv with a pretty good AV. He also has multiple clicks of MC and at least 2 clicks of imperv. I wasn't allowed to write stuff down back then but the next time I go I'll spoil all the stuff for you guys.

Circe exp is a member of the IJL and is Wonder Woman's Arch Enemy. They changed WW's AE color from green to orange-yellow.

Saturn Girl looked like a solid deal for 56 points. Her 0 damage (all the way down) is made up for by her team ability, Mind control (lots of it) and perplex (ditto). Watch out for her low defense value. It starts at 13, and goes down from there.

Trioa exp was like a flying rookie Bane, except she had horrible AV's. Although the 4 clicks of CCE looked great that 8 and below AV sure didn't. She is a Titan btw.

The booster packs our store got had John Stewart and Penguin on the covers.

Well like I said, I'll give you guys more info as soon as I get it.

VH

[Ghost_Rider]

Veggiehater: I don't doubt what you saw, but I still think it's an error. Giving Shiva Psychic Blast is like giving Batman Mind Control. It just doesn't make sense. Plus it's not like the colors of current figures are set in stone, many like Riddler have the wrong power.

Ghost

[Veggiehater]

Originally posted by Ghost_Rider
Veggiehater: I don't doubt what you saw, but I still think it's an error. Giving Shiva Psychic Blast is like giving Batman Mind Control. It just doesn't make sense. Plus it's not like the colors of current figures are set in stone, many like Riddler have the wrong power.

Ghost

LOL! Can't agree with you more.

VH

[GianSingir]

Ghost, I think it's the same deal as the Mandroid Armor having TK... It a representation of powers...

I've never seen the new Batgirl, in the comics, but does she throw anything? Like batarangs? If so, it could be a rep of that... Same with Lady Shiva, and throwing stars or knives, maybe...

Yeah, it's kinda lame, but that's they way they have to do it, I guess...

[WEAPON-XXX]

I don't belive (may be wrong) that the Manhunters fly so the GL team ability is wasted on them. Even so, if they do it would certainly make them much more expensive IMHO.

[esfoad]

Whether what was printed was a mistake or not, he saw what he saw and we have to take that at his word.

As for the Psychic Blast arguments that have been floating around this board for a couple of weeks, I agree with you all in that "Psychic Blast is Psychic Blast", and that neither Shiva or Batgirl have those traditional by-the-book powers. However, as previously mentioned in this thread, they could have just been trying to best represent their comic book powers.

Both of those characters have the ability to penetrate almost any defense, often times from across the room (granted they closed great distances in short time to do so), but what currently represents that in game? Hypersonic Speed is out of the question. So then what?

I know many of us would have expected/been happy with a fairly high AV but that would not be in the DC tradition. If PB turns out to be true, then we should chalk it up to the dev team trying to use powers rather than brute strength abilities to best represent what these top two DC martial artists can do in their world and bring it to the Clix gameboard.

The more we talk about it the more I think I like it (unless I'm just getting used to it). Not sure which range you'd choose with Shiva, but I could support Batgirl having a 4 or 6 range (PB or batarangs, you decide), starting out with a few clicks of PB, and then switching to Incap. Mind you this whole thing is completely out the window and there will be great gnashing of teeth should she be without CCE.

Bottom line? We're all right. Boils down to there being more than one way to best represent their abilities IN GAME. Now it's just a matter of waiting to see how it is actually done.

[Bloodsword]

What they should have done instead of giving them PB (if they have it) is MAKE UP A NEW POWER!!. Make something that can bypass Toughness or INV. A close combat power that can bypass armor, do the normal damage of 1 or 2 or whatever, just dont let it be absorbed by a damage power.
Instead of close CCE maybe it would be Martial arts, or something. (Sorry, Ranting.)

[Captain Spoon]

funny, yeah the color situation is pretty janky... i mean my friend Cell bought a booster got a R Nightwing and started to giggle, he showed me the figure & said "Well, it's colored so it's legal, got me some hella cheap outwitt..." or sumthin like that... Nightwings damage dial had a really dark gray, which made it look like outwitt...

-SPOON!-

[theZehrung]

I STILL don't understand why Saturn Girl is granted a ZERO Damage?!?!? she has NO Psychic Blast?!?!? Mind Control??? Saturn girl does not have the power to control anybody...she does psychic blast. and no damage...look at Penguin he has a one-point damage, but saturn girl none?!? that's so wrong...geez... :( :angry: :disappoin :cry:

[Bloodsword]

A friend of mine has 2 V. Riddlers, both of the perplex is colored yellow and looks like support. My R Nightwing looks like it has outwit as well.

[Terman8er]

Heck...I played in a Sealed DC tournament and pulled a V Riddler...I didn't know that clix at all and when I saw yellow in the damage area I was happy to have pulled a medic in a sealed tournament.

Found out later that that yellow was a bad batch of brown. :(

[bizarrome]

Can you get us some pics???

[Paradox Factor]

Y'know, personally I just don't understand the whole animosity everyone is having with Lady Shiva and Batgirl having Psychic Blast. So they aren't psychic. So what. It fits the characters. They're both deadly in combat and the power makes sense. Who cares if it's called Psychic Blast. I mean, look at Poison. How many characters actually use poison in the comics? How about HSS? Nightcrawler has it to represent his teleportation, not because he can move faster then the speed of sound. Want another? Both Swamp Thing, Sandman, and again Nightcrawler have it and in the comics they don't actualy Phase (ie walk through walls like Vision or Shadowcat). Swamp Thing jumps from plant tot plant (I think. It's been a while since I've read ST), Sandman turns into sand and flows through cracks, and again Nightcrawler Teleports.

As for making a new power, that's just silly. I mean, DC doesn't even have all the other Marvel powers yet! I don't think well see any new powers till Indy Clix.

[Terman8er]

Paradox...I am with ya on this one.

It seems that some of you are taking a select minority and darning them out of spite or something.

I mean...Ultron? A Minion of Doom? Taskmaster a Minion of Doom?

Heck...I think Deathstroke should be a Batman Team member to give him stealth so he can keep L/C and/or Running Shot.

[JayThor]

I agree with you both. Folk are going to have to realize that too many powers will be confusing when they haven't even crossed al the others over yet. Sometimes a little imagination is needed to see how some powers can be used to "cover" others for simplicity sake. I don't think that Shiva and Batgirl should have PB, as neither should Superman or Monel no matter how good of fighters they are, being only human. The game works as a whole really well. This site proves that, since over 10,000 are registerred here alone, and more join daily. Are we all going to agree on every point? No. We are different than the creators, with different views. My suggestion for all you folk who don't like the dials WK makes, is to mod your own. Play on your own with these, but save the ones you do like for tournament play unmodded.

[Mayberry Bat]

I understand what you guys are saying. I've been in a couple of the threads about the BG/Psychic Blast threads. I still don't see it. If I'm understanding the rule properly that means that Shiva and Batgirl could attack Superman and his impervious wouldn't help him if the roll was high enough. The definition on the Wizkids site for PBlast is: this character fires a mental blast. If they are going to use this power for martial artists they need a clarification of the definition. I mean Darkseid, Braniac 13, Arcane, & Gorilla Grodd are the only DC characters with the ability. They have mental powers. I just don't see Shiva & Batgirl in the same league with them.

[Ghost_Rider]

Originally posted by Paradox Factor
Y'know, personally I just don't understand the whole animosity everyone is having with Lady Shiva and Batgirl having Psychic Blast. So they aren't psychic. So what. It fits the characters. They're both deadly in combat and the power makes sense. Who cares if it's called Psychic Blast. I mean, look at Poison. How many characters actually use poison in the comics? How about HSS? Nightcrawler has it to represent his teleportation, not because he can move faster then the speed of sound. Want another? Both Swamp Thing, Sandman, and again Nightcrawler have it and in the comics they don't actualy Phase (ie walk through walls like Vision or Shadowcat). Swamp Thing jumps from plant tot plant (I think. It's been a while since I've read ST), Sandman turns into sand and flows through cracks, and again Nightcrawler Teleports.

As for making a new power, that's just silly. I mean, DC doesn't even have all the other Marvel powers yet! I don't think well see any new powers till Indy Clix.

You are wrong. Psychic Blast absolutely DOES NOT fit for the Batgirl or Shiva characters. They are both deadly martial artists, but that is in CLOSE COMBAT.

You also can't even compare that to Sandman having Phasing and Nightcrawler having Hypersonic Speed. Does Sandman go through walls in the comics? Yes, through cracks. Does Nightcrawler hit somebody and then move quickly out-of-the-way? Yes. Does Batgirl fire mental blasts at her enemies? NO! NO! NO!

You need some leeway because all powers aren't going to fit EXACTLY to the comics. Furthermore, just because Batgirl and Shiva are exceptional martial artists, I highly doubt that they would even be able to even hurt Superman or the Hulk. So then having Psychic Blast is just plain ludicrous. Close combat Expert - that makes sense. Psychic Blast - no way.

Ghost

[cscottk]

Originally posted by Brainiac 16
Ouch. The chronically low attack and defense values for DC continue unabated.


18 is really high, and you consider 15 really low? Hell, its average.

[daedalus25]

First of all, I have to agree that giving Lady Shiva and Batgirl Psychic Blast is completely ridiculous. It shows they are focusing on their ranged combat attacks when these two ladies are close combat experts. Even BCF would have been a better representation of their powers, though a simple CCE back by high base damage would have been just fine.

Secondly, I don't agree with the "shut up and accept it" mentality. It has already been proven that the voice of the community determines what gets fixed. Read JonL's comments about Spider-man. He reads our gripes and in some cases, he does his best to fix them. Granted Spider-man is a bad example. Since every set is going to have one, it's easy to fix the powers on the next version. It's unlikely we'll ever see a Lady Shiva or Batgirl again, but Connor Hawke, Nemesis, Karate Kid, etc. are all top notch martial artists and maybe they'll get things right by then.

[Ghost_Rider]

If we get Karate Kid, does that mean Mr. Miyagi is soon to follow?

Daniel-son! Daniel-son! Wax on, wax off. Side to side. You try. ;)

Ghost

[Emperor Joker]

Has anyone considered the fact that Psychic Blast might represent the strong Chi of both Lady Shiva and Batgirl? After all, both are superlative martial artists of comperable skill. Not saying I buy it, per se, but just throwing it out.

And, personally, I think that the whole discussion of Batgirl/Shiva and Psychic Blast falls under the same heading as the endless "why doesn't IC Spider-Man have Super-Senses?" arguments. As far as I'm concerned, if Doc Samson "behaves in a misleading or unpredictable fashion" all the time, or if The Leader doesn't have Leadership, then these two can "[fire] a mental blast." You can't always represent characters 100% accurately. Mystique's proof of that.

[Spinebreaker]

Emperor Joker is right...
>>>You can't always represent characters 100% accurately. Mystique's proof of that.<<<

But unfortuneately, everytime that happens we end up with a game a little less based on comics and a little more like a game of non-descript characters with pretty plastic bits...

Mystique not shapeshifting, Spidey with no Spider-Sense, Absurd Elektra's, Iceman who only resorts to using his freezing powers after a few clicks...

"Let's give batgirl psychic blast"

"Why?"

"Why not."

seems a little un-thoughtful and unresourceful...

As for the people saying it's because of their potent Martial arts abilities...

If only we had some kind of close combat damage enhancing power for people who are proficient fighters...

Like RCE but for close combat...

[WarHULK]

Perhaps they will be changing things in the next FAQ which makes psychic blast ranged and close combat? It would make sense to me that Batgirl would be able to find the weak point in anyone's Impervious... so if it works in both ways then it would be quite perfect...

[weezer_10]

My hunch is that we'll see Batgirl in Wednesday's CJ preview, just to clear up all this Psychic Blast business.

We'll see how the game developers explain her having that power.

[bizarrome]

I hope not!! I want to see a fig we haven't seen yet!!!!

[Blue-Beetle]

I like the idea of them giving psychic blast out this way it opens the door for a more liberal aproach to powers, and more importantly it's two less charaters with incapacitate who would have otherwise had it. :grin:

[JayThor]

Incap would fit them better, and it can be used in close combat.

[Doc_Twilight]

............Sorry, I'm still venting over Superman's 3 clicks of damage....


*Ahem* I guess I would rather see Shiva and Batgirl just do more damage, and though psychic blast is quite a streach..eh.

[drhypnotic]

Batgirl has the ability to sense her opponents weakspot.. doesn't she? Psychic Blast makes sense to me...

Quit your belly-achin'

Be glad we have this game. Comic Book geeks are always going to disagree on whats what. Again this is a game too.. It needs to be playable and collectable to survive as well as fun.

I persoanlly think Mystique is fine the way she is. Perplex reresents the sum of her total abilities not just her shape changing (IE. Voice mimicry, and the mind games she plays)

[JayThor]

I agree that Mystique is far better this way than if she only had Shapechange. That is irrelevant to giving a ranged power to 2 characters who are close combat fighters, not ranged.

[secretwarrior]

yeah but c'mon

you're all telling me you'd want Batgirl to do 3 or 4 damage to EVERY Figure?

At least with Psy blast she can undo only impervious for only one damage (instead of having outwit to outdo ANY ability).

With psy blast she always does one damage, event to lesser figures. I think its very fair, more fair actually than a certain batman understudy who can do 3 damage with outwit.

[TheHawk]

I actually don't mind them giving Psychic Blast to Lady Shiv. If the rumors are true, then in close combat she will be able to attack for 3 clicks of damage. At a range she will be able to only take off 1 click of damage that would ignore the effects of impervious and toughness. She has an attack of 9, so its not as if her ranged attack is a given hit. However, if the dice roll is sucessful it just means that her 1 click of damage will not be reduced.

This does not seem too big a deal to me, and it is no different than giving Nightcrawler Hypersonic speed.

[Phantom]

As far as the numbers go – they seem fine. Remember, the figs shown look like they’re either Rookie or generic Veterans. Troia should be a common based on her number, so it wouldn’t stand for her to have a huge attack either.

[JacinB]

Originally posted by TheHawk
I actually don't mind them giving Psychic Blast to Lady Shiv. If the rumors are true, then in close combat she will be able to attack for 3 clicks of damage. At a range she will be able to only take off 1 click of damage that would ignore the effects of impervious and toughness.

This would actually make sense to me, too.

Remember, it is possible that Shiva and Batgirl have both CCE and Psychic Blast. That way the character can have a ranged attack that does damage even to the toughest opponents (which they should be able to do) and they would have a hard-hitting Close Combat attack with CCE.

Is it as efficient as just giving them Outwit and a strong attack value? No. But it does fit the character better, in my opinion ...

[JayThor]

No they shouldn't. Neither could hurt Captain Marvel or Superman at all, much less at range. CCE, yes. PB, no.

[Prophet924]

Your arguement does fall apart on the "can't hurt Superman or Captain Marvel" when you take into consideration that CCE with 1 damage point still does damage to these guys when up close. Besides 4 range is just like being up close. That is if their range is 4. It may be less.

[Mayberry Bat]

I think if they are going to use Pblast in this sense then Wizkids needs to amend their definition or I guess I should say desription of it. "Fires a mental blast," isn't what they do. I'm not disagreeing that the actual use of the power isn't something they don't do. It's just all in Wizkids wording. I posted somewhere, on this thread or one of the many threads regarding this, about the DC clix that have Pblast now: Braniac, Darkseid, Arcane, & Gorilla Grodd. I just don't see two martial arts experts in the same category. If the description and wording was different it might work.

[JacinB]

Originally posted by JayThor
No they shouldn't. Neither could hurt Captain Marvel or Superman at all, much less at range. CCE, yes. PB, no.

But, with that argument, they shouldn't get CCE either.

As Prophet924 pointed out, if you give them anything but CCE and 0 damage, they can still hurt Superman and Captain Marvel (and Hulk, and Colossus, and everyone else that has any damage reducing power).

By your logic, they should both just get a flat two damage with no enhancements. And, quite frankly, that's lame.

Impervious, Invulnerability, and Toughness were never meant to make someone unhurtable. It was just meant to make them harder to hurt than people who don't have those powers ...

If you wanted to make Superman 'realistic' when compared to the comic character, then he should get a power that reduces all damage from anyone not on the Mystics team or not his Arch-Enemy to 0, because he can't be hurt at all by normal means, right?

[JayThor]

I see all of your points, but my point is one click of actual damage after CCE and Inv/Imp is more acceptable than PB giving them 2 or more without those powers coming into effect.