sol's take - Wonder Man

[sol]

Wonder Man Rookie No Team 0 Range
8 8 7 6 6 5 4
8 7 7 6 6 5 4
15 15 14 14 13 12 11
3 3 3 2 2 1 1


Wonder Man Experienced Avengers 0 Range Flight
9 8 8 7 6 6 5 4
9 8 7 7 6 6 5 4
15 15 14 14 13 13 12 11
4 3 3 3 2 2 2 1


Wonder Man Veteran Avengers 0 Range Flight
9 8 8 7 6 6 5 5 4
10 9 8 7 6 6 5 5 4
16 15 15 14 14 13 13 12 11
4 4 3 3 2 2 2 2 1


Play Tip: Wonder Man is a quintessential muscle of any team. He isn't the greatest fighter in the world, though so his attack value isn't high. The Rookie lacks flight and gets pretty weak at he end because his power was killing him. On his Experienced and Veteran versions he gains Flight and Charge. In his Exp days, he was afraid of death and didn't wade into combat without thinking, so his Charge isn't on his first click. The Veteran Wondy has full confidence in his abilites and is a more well rounded combatant.

[Manchine]

Well lets see the differences. I have done the Veteran so far.

First off we both have the same number of Kliqs of Health.

We have the same amount of Charge. LOL. YOu have one more kliq of speed then I do. You also go to 4 where I stay at 5.

Attack We both start out at 10 :eek: :laugh: :p ;) but you drop it to 4 where I stop at 5. I have 3 more kliqs of Super Strength.

Defense I have 2 kliqs of 17 defense and only drop him to 12 defense. I gave him 1 more kliq of Invuln. Only 1 kliq doesnt have anything.

Lets see 1 more kliq of 4 damage. 1 more kliq of 3 damage and the rest all 2's

Only thing I would say you goofed up on is not giving him enough damage. He should keep his higher damage longer. You only have him with 4 kliqs that can go toe to toe with the big guys. He can last longer then that. ;) Oh and your low stats on the last kliq. I dont think he should be that low on his last kliqs.

[sol]

Ok, let's see:

I disagree on his damage for this reason: he shouldn't be doing 4 clicks of damage for as long as Thor. If Thor did 4 clicks for 4 clicks, then I would give Wondy 4 for 3. He just isn't as tough or strong as Thor (or Hercules for that matter, comics wise of course), but he is a heavy hitter. So i gave him less 4. He would go down to one damage (maybe just one click on vet), as when he gets beat up, he isn't anywhere as spry as Thor when the same thing happens.

He shouldn't stay steady on the attack because he isn't really a skilled fighter. It was hard for me to give the Vet a 10 attack, but i did since I knew his attack drops.


Wonder Man is tough, but he's no Immortal. I let his abilites drop off a little faster to balnce him against Thor and Herc, as somewhere in the middle, which is kinda how I see him. Herc is stronger and a better fighter, but Wondy flies and can Charge. Plus he's Invulnerable. I shoulda put the design note in, but I felt Wonder Man was straightforward enough to leave it out.

[Manchine]

He not as powerful as Thor no. Thor is not up to what Thor should be. Your telling me that Thor and Hercules do the same damage. Thor was dumbed down. So comparing it to Thor is not quite right.

Lets see your telling me that She Hulk does the same amount of damage that Wonderman does. Thing/Colossus does more damage then him.

Thor can beat up on Wonderman all day even if his damage is 4. HErcules would have a hard time but he could also win.

As for the 1 damage. He should never do one damage. That means he does the damage of a normal human. He does far more then that even if his confidence is shattered.

The attack your right on about how it falls rapidly. I just dont think it should drop to 4. His attack is equal if not more then colossus.

The problem is your comparing him to jsut a few people and not everyone on a whole. Comparing him to the most powerful person on Earth will of course make him look bad.

[Manchine]

PS I forgot.

My wonderman was made well before CT came out. So he actually has stood up pretty good from that. I would change a few things though.

Defense not so high and attack dropping faster at the start.

[sol]

Originally posted by Manchine
He not as powerful as Thor no. Thor is not up to what Thor should be. Your telling me that Thor and Hercules do the same damage. Thor was dumbed down. So comparing it to Thor is not quite right.

Lets see your telling me that She Hulk does the same amount of damage that Wonderman does. Thing/Colossus does more damage then him.

Thor can beat up on Wonderman all day even if his damage is 4. HErcules would have a hard time but he could also win.



Actually I thought about all of those guys (and gal). Thor is as powerful as he needs to be in HeroClix. Hercules is weaker (but cost efficient). She-Hulk is on par with the game version of Herc, but she is more accurate than he is in the game. Colossus has 4 damage too long on the Vet in my view and so does the Thing. I wasn't going to base the design off of those guys because I don't really feel they are all that accurate damage wise. Game wise it makes sense for Colossus who adds a 4 per level. Thing is a compromise for She-Hulk in my theory. Thing doesn't lift in the Class 100 range, but he's got 4 damage for 3 clicks. They just aren't going to give Thor 4 damage for 4 clicks. I compromised. So you are right in a way, but I wasn't going STRICTLY on comic book acuracy in this instance. So yes, in HeroClix terms, I am saying all you accuse me of. LOL!

Like I said, i wanted him to be a balance between Herc and She-Hulk as a GAME PIECE. It doesn't reflect my view of Wondy in the comic. I agree with most of what you said from that standpoint.

[Manchine]

Ahh see. I see (V) Colossus and Thing as Right on. Colossus is a 100 ton lifter. Now the Expereinced should of been weaker. Thing is an expert Wrestler. When he wrestles he does more damage then what he normal can do. Hercules should do more damage.

But thats different subject. LOL

[KaiserSelroc]

I assume we're talking about the flesh and blood Wonderman, and not the energy being Wonderman.

[Manchine]

Thats who I am taling about. The energy one would probable be a unique.

[sol]

The Vet would be the energy being. I suppose if there was a figure here they would ALL be. The rookie would be on the base though. In Energy form his powers really haven't changed other than he can fly in that form. He hasn't been shown to still have his powers in Simon Williams mode, but there is no evidence to say that either way.

[Manchine]

In energy form he can fly faster and shoot energy beams.

[sol]

I've never seen him shoot energy beams. Where was this?

[Manchine]

In the attack on Kangs ship. For starters. ;) :p ;)

Thats why the Energy form would be a unique.

Plus he can fly very very fast in his energy form. Enough to warrent a Max 12 or min 10 speed to start.

[sol]

I have those issues right in front of me. I used em to do the veteran version. He gets HIT by a lot of energy beams (LOL!), but he doesn't shoot any. I will finish looking through, and if he does I'll give him a 6 range.

I thought about giving him a 10 move, but with a 9 he still Charges for 5 spaces.

[Manchine]

When they Shoot at his ship. He usually uses his fist but he can shoot energy.

[JayThor]

When he had his own comic for awhile, he didn't fly, he lost his belt and just jumped really far. I modded a Vet Doc Samson to do a Wonderman, since I see a Vet like that, and a Unique of the energy form.

[supremepontiff]

mel, you should do Black Knight next... i think wondy is dead on, but i still disagre with you on the whole thing doing too much damage. he grew up on yancy street for gods sakes, and he's more innercity than luke cage.



-Rick