online clix Flash project

[flagg]

Hey Folks,

I was thinking it would be cool to have a way to play clix online... like play by post, but where players would have a graphical interface. Why set up an entire map on your dining room table for days on end when a web site can keep track of the entire game for you? Ideally, the online system would incorporate the ruleset, so that moves could be validated on the fly (no more, "um, I don't think you can move there"), dice could be rolled, and turns could be completed all through scripting.

I'm thinking something like this could be done in Flash. I'm just starting to go through some tutorials, and, though daunting, I think it could be accomplished.

Anyone interested in seeing something like this come about?

Anyone interested in working on the project?

I'm certainly no Flash expert, but "practice" projects like this allow me to add to my development skill toolbox. Anyone with some mad web skills out there craving some street creds? ;-)

Here is a quick mini test map I cooked up that shows how pieces can be moved about. Yes, I realize this is not earth shattering. ;-) It's just to demonstrate the very basics of what I'm envisioning here.

http://geo-media.net/clix/testmap1.html

So, in a finished system, you'd click a piece on the board, and off to the side you'd get the piece info like Name, range, arrows, and the stats/powers for whatever click the piece happens to be on at the moment. If it is your turn, clicking the piece would also give you a menu with options like "Move, Pick Something Up, Pick Up a Teammate, Use power, Attack". And then further options depending on what you choose.

A few other things I've thought about:

- Needs to load in chosen army for each player (store all pieces in mysql database)
- Needs to save game state (don't think this will be a problem)
- Needs to save state after each die roll to prevent "fudging"
- Needs to provide a synopsis of your opponent's most recent turn
- Needs to validate movement (also w/regard to movement powers)
- Needs to calculate line of sight and validate for terrain & los-affecting-powers (this is probably the most difficult... i have no idea at the moment how to accomplish this)
- And a whole lot more

This is by no means going to be an easy task, but it just might be fun to give it a shot.

So how 'bout it? Anyone up to the challenge?

EDIT: When checking out the map above, be sure to scroll all the way to the right to see the pieces.

[Wyldstaar]

It looks really cool. Good luck with it. I'd love to help, but I'm lucky if I can find the on switch to my PC. Programing is far beyond me.

[f1aherty]

yeah, id help, but as wyldstaar said, i have trouble with the simplest computer tasks

[hair10]

Do you mean something like..... http://www.creationmatrix.com/forums/index.php?pg=clixonline? Click on the launch heroix game boards.

[Mr. Fixit '03]

That is really, really awesome, and, although it may be semi-realistic, some of the Hero Clix rules may not be plausible fo this type of play. Second, how would you program all of the characters into the game. That would take some serious load time. Third, how would you pick characters? Well, you could pick any characters up to a number of points, and that would be fine. Finally, if Wizkids and DC/Marvel discover this, you could have a serious lawsuit. It would take a chunk of the marketing for Hero Clix. No one would have to buy them anymore.

Assuming you deal with these, email me the site for the finished product. I am good at Flash, but I cannot make commitments for out of state projects.

[hair10]

Originally posted by Mr. Fixit '03
That is really, really awesome, and, although it may be semi-realistic, some of the Hero Clix rules may not be plausible fo this type of play. Second, how would you program all of the characters into the game. That would take some serious load time. Third, how would you pick characters? Well, you could pick any characters up to a number of points, and that would be fine. Finally, if Wizkids and DC/Marvel discover this, you could have a serious lawsuit. It would take a chunk of the marketing for Hero Clix. No one would have to buy them anymore.
It's all been done before. By creationmatrix and heroix.

[Bluebeard]

Whoops, it appears I've been tricked. Although I know a bit about The Flash, unfortunitally I don't know a #### thing about Flash. (Or computers for that matter.)

[Mr. Fixit '03]

I have checked out creationmatrix, and your board is infinately better. I am routing for you.

[flagg]

Originally posted by Mr. Fixit '03
I have checked out creationmatrix, and your board is infinately better. I am routing for you.

Hey, thanks Mr. Fixit. :)

I just checked out creationmatrix as well. I hadnt seen that before. I gotta give those guys their due... that "Game Boards" thing is kewl. :)

Although, maybe I am missing something? Is there any way to save game "state"... so that you take a turn, then the game board is "saved" so that your opponent can then take his turn sometime later? Also, how do you define what characters your pieces on the board represent?

I don't quite understand what the purpose of the application is if there is no way to save... is it only for people who play whilst chatting online...? "I move my piece #4 to A17, then blast your piece #6 that should be in C12. I roll a 9, a hit! etc etc"???

But, yeah, that is the core of what I was thinking. However, my vision of online heroclicking would let you take a turn, validate your moves & attacks, and save the game (including locations & health of all pieces) so your opponent could then take his turn (either then or at a later time).

Basically, how I was thinking it could work would be:
*Register a new game by entering your username and that of your opponent (I suppose it could be more than 2 players, but lets just keep it to 2 for this example), and select game options (like max points of army)
*You and your opponent enter the characters you want to use for your army
*The flash application rolls for you to determine who goes first
*Whoever goes first logs into the game and selects a map
*2nd player chooses deployment side and can place units & objects (game saved)
*1st player logs in and places units & object, then takes turn (game saved)
*2nd player logs in, sees synapsis of 1st players turn, then takes his turn (game saved)
*and so on

The characters for all the sets would be stored in a sql database (like mysql). When you select your army, the app would only load the stats from the database for the units you select. I don't think that would be overtaxing. It only needs to know the stats of the units on the board that way.

As far as the ruleset, some would be challenging to implement (HSS, mastermind & probability control, come to mind), but I think those obstacles could be overcome (its possible some of the rules would need to be tweaked for online play). My main concern is figuring out line of site issues... that's got me a bit puzzled at the moment... how would you determine if a line drawn from the center of A17 to the center of C12 passes through blocking terrain? Not sure if Flash can even handle that...

Well, in a nutshell, that's it. ;) A few challenges, but a fun project to work on, I think.

[paul_wootton17]

I can't really help you in the programming part of the project, but putting in my imagination into it might help. If you need any game play ideas, such as maybe adding a Power Generator or something to that effect, I'll be more than happy to join your crew, and if not, oh well...

[SpakSpang]

Would you not think that a Shockwave Project using Director would not be an easier way to program.

You could use Raster Graphics and could easily Piece together digitial recreations of the maps, and make your own easily.

As well you could take pictures of the figures on their base to store a database to add even more graphical elements to the game.

Maybe I am getting too complicated, but I want more than a dial with the name of the character on it.

That's just me though.

[Vindicator]

I too have been contemplating such a project, and it is a lot more complex then I originally anticipated (as most things are). While not trying to take away from the great work heroic and creationmatrix, placing icons on a map and making them movable is the easiy part. linking an icon to an actual figure/stats gets a little more interesting. Attempting to verify moves/actions is just downright frightning- I mean have you looked at the FAQ? Try to explain that to a computer...
As for the LOS issue. It has been in my hamster wheel for about a week, and I think the answer lies in how you describe the map. You would need to build a multi-dimensional array that would describe all the walls, hindering terrain and elevations of each cell on the map. you would then use a little geometry/trig to determin what cells the LOS goes through and then look ath those cells in the array to see if they contained anything that intterupts LOS.
Or somthing like that...

[NateTG]

I reccomend that you don't worry about enforcing the rules right away.

I'm not sure how you're setting up your coordinates, but here's a fairily quick way to determine which squares (and intersections) are on the LOF. This would be a whole lot easier to explain with graphics.

This is based on a grid system where the intersections are on integer coordinates and the square numbering is such that the coordinates (1.5,2,5) are in square (1,2).

So, lets say that the center of the square that attacking figure is in is at (a_1,b_1) and the center of the target square is (a_2,b_2).

Then the slope of the line between them is m=(b_2-b_1)/(a_2-a_1).

There's some futzing to make the check go in the correct direction, but then you can step through
using b_n=m(x)+b_1 where x is the change in a.

If you check on grid lines, then you'll see all the lines where the LOF goes through an intersection. Moreover, if the LOF goes through a non intersection, then it goes through the squares on both sides of that intesection.

You're not particularly concerned about speed, so you can just check the rows and then the columns, although there are more sophisticated approaches to the problem.

When you're dealing with LOF to walls you'll need to check LOF to both endpoints of the wall, and LOF through any player/player diagonals to the wall.

[NateTG]

Oops, sorry, LOF to walls is a bit more complicated than that, but I think you get the idea.

[flagg]

paul_wootton17: a "power generator"? Can you give an example of what you mean?

SpakSpang: Shockwave may very well be easier, but I'm not familiar with it... (not really with Flash either for that matter LOL) Flash does use vector based graphics though, fyi. My thinking is to have photos of all the pieces accessible via sql database... so when you click on a "figure" (represented by a "dial" on the map), off to the right you will see the figure's stats (for its current click) and a photo.

Vindicator: I don't think linking to the stats will be that difficult... just a matter of a php query to a mysql database. The "ruleset" validation IS going to be a bear, though and might just end up being a bit too ... over-ambitious. (See below for thoughts on map cell data)

NateTG: I'll have to think through your examples there (been a while for the ole algebra & trig, hehe), but I was thinking that each map would need to have a data set associated with it that would contain LOS info for each and every square. And the info would be "which squares surrounding this square can see into it?". So, each square would have LOS data for each of the squares surrounding it... so for a clear terrain square with a wall on the right and a bush in the upper left, its data might look like "SELF=CLEAR, NW=HINDERING, N=CLEAR, NE=BLOCKING, W=CLEAR, E=BLOCKING, SW=CLEAR, S=CLEAR,SE=BLOCKING". I'm not sure, but maybe something can be done with a structure like this. Of course, this doesnt take into account LOS issues due to other figures.... (And Vindicator mentioned the elevation which would need to be kept track of also. Prolly multiple elevations since some maps have elevations on top of elevations)

Thanks folks, for all the input. Will try to get a little something more accomplished soon. Wife is pregnant with our first and due in a couple days, so it's been a little... um... hectic... around here lately. ;)

[Vindicator]

Re:Shockwave.
Director is more powerful than Flash in a number of ways, especially when it comes to handling media types. One of the nice things about it is that is can import impoert and manipulate Flash, so you get your vectors that way. The flip side is the overhead. The Director shockwave plugin is a larger download and is has less distribution than Flash. The other downside is price. Director is more than 4x the cost of Flash.
Personally I prefer developing in Director - I'm not saying it is better, I just like it more.
It would be really cool if someone took on a 3-d version in Director Shockwave.

Re: Stats
You are correct, that part is pretty simple. I have a db of the figs and I am able to accomplish that task with a minimum of effort. I am also trying to include things like range and speed into the interface.

Re: Baby.
Are you sure this is the best time ti be taking on a project like this?;)

Good luck

[LovaX]

I was thinking how cool it would be if there was a program like this. Unfortunately I have no programming skills of any kind, but I do have an imagination. You ever played isketch?(http://www.isketch.net/) For some reason that popped into my mind. I was thinking it would be cool if it was set up like that. Of course that game has nothing to do with heroclix. I just meant use some of the concepts. You go to the site, log in, then it takes you to a chat lobby where people are waiting for a game. After you find someone to play with, one of you makes a room/game. The action will be live with a built in dice generator that actually rolls and comes up with random numbers so there will be no need in emailing each other back and forth.

Anyway, that's all I got so far, and like I said, I have no idea how to make this possible. But I'm sure it IS possible, and someone out there CAN do this. As far as the heroclix rules and LOF issues, you sound confident enough to where I think you'll work them out. I just thought it would be cool if someone (hint hint) could make a program like this where you can play someone live, or real time, or whatever you wanna call it.

[Wollstonecraft]

Flagg, I would like to offer any assistance I can in the graphics arena. I'm not big on coding, but I can hold my own with graphic design elements. Not exactly sure what you're looking for, but I thought I'd offer...

[Dunjin]

Hey

Has anything ever happened with this idea?

[Wyldstaar]

Since he hasn't posted anything on the boards since Sept. '03, I'm guessing not.

[ThePope]

Another place to go to design an online version of heroclix would be: http://www.vassalengine.org/ The VASSAL Engine is a platform that can be used to play any turn based card or board game. I use it to play Advanced Squad Leader (ASL) online. VASL (Virtual ASL) is the only way I have time to play a game. Sound familiar?

Anyhow, if somebody is good at programming, the platform is already available. I have spoken with the programmers, and they say that HeroClix could easily conform to the VASSAL standards. It could even look like the game (not the excel version that we have to resort to playing.

Any programmers out there willing to give it a shot? If so, contact Rodney Kinney at rodneykinney@attbi.com.

Sean
+<|:-)