Batman HUSH disscussion

[skyounkin]

I haven't read all 17 pages of post here but I was wondering earlier on about a few things and if I am incorrect in any please correct me
-way back in the beginning of hush catwoman was under control of poison ivy and to my knowledge they never showed catwoman getting free from her control;)
-catwoman kissed batman, hence it is possible that he is currently under control of poison ivy, now if you remember scarewcrow even said that batman was under the control of another toxin or something which gives weight to the whole control by poison ivy
-Who knows all of batmans secrets?, I was also thinking azreal but I wouldn't be surprised if hush was harvey dent but I think when the wraps come off he'll have Bruce Waynes face, just to mess with everybody.... or on a complete bizarre train of thought didn't we find out Havey Dents wife was loopy at the end of the long halloween, and she killed some of the criminals maybe hush is her (I am blanking on the name)
Ahhhh!! I am going to go read these now and half to get back to this post....

[skyounkin]

I don't know how it'll happen but I think hush is Bruce Wayne, under the control poison ivy, and the whole thing has been a wierd sub concious battle between Batman and bruce wayne personas :eek:

[BrotherPudge]

I really hope not. Loeb is a very good storyteller and I don't think he will result to the cliche it was only a dream or in his head angle. I really hope it is not because I like everything that has happened in this story arc esp. catwoman and bats hooking up. I would feel taken advantage of and sad if it is all a dream, it would make this whole hush story arc a waste!

[skyounkin]

Maybe that's why "Jason Clayface" never called Batman by Bruce because Bruce Wayne as hush hired clayface to be Jason? :o
Another crazy idea is it's clark kent who also knows everything about Batman and Bruce wayne who also lives "two souls as one"

[skyounkin]

hahahahaha It's Sin tzu!!! The guy jim lee created for the new batman adventures video game whattayathink?:grin:

[SITHSPAWN]

I think it is Tommy Elliot

[malephoenix]

That Sin Tzu idea would be SWEET! But, alas, we can only hope. And I really think that the "clue" @ the end of the last issue ("What is a friend...") was not a pseudo-metaphysical clue that meant that Hush was a consciousness split into another body. It was just a way to say that Hush is someone close to Bats.
Oh, and that toxin idea about being under Poison Ivy's control is a great theory. I am sure that the scarecrow "clue" about being under another's control is verrrrrry important.

[Azrael0626]

Towards the end of Azrael's series he wore a jacket very similar to if not identical to the one Hush wears. During No Mans Land Azrael was injured in an explosion and had to have his entire face bandaged. Also, the last time we saw Harold he was working with Jean Paul Valley (Azrael). All of these cluse are strong indications that Azrael is Hush. However, he isn't. At the end of the Azrael series Jean Paul/Azrael finally gets his head together by destroying the hold both St. Dumas and his father had over him. He also cuts his ties with Batman by defeating him in a fight and proving that he is his own man at last. Bottom line is that Azrael isn't smart enough to pull off the things Hush has. Jean Paul is an average guy with average intellegence. As Azrael he is the ultimate fighting machine. Not much of an intellectual giant like Batman's other villians.
I had guessed the whole thing was a dream awhile ago, but everyone I have talked to has said no way, so my guess is Tommy. Especially, considering Hush is wearing Tommy's necklace on the last page of the current issue.

[Big]

Here's what I think..
1) almost everyone in Bats family and villains have shown up except... bane,azrael and Mr.freeze is so far the ones I have thought of
2) Loeb wouldn't finish this story arc without answering all dangling questions regarding
a) scarecrows toxins
b) the Harvey Dent thing
c) the huntress should be accounted for
d) ??????
3) Tommy would indeed be a part of the conclusion, what else would be the reasons for the operations,flashbacks etc. etc. whether he is hush or just the one who hired hush. A doctor who konws has to use guns plot etc etc. doesn't make sense to me:)
4) Lex Luthor said that he would take care of IT when the time comes hmmmm
5) Lastly indeed there would be a twist in this story, the fugitive story arc had the "One knows the secret identity(kane) and the other does not(luthor)" maybe it'll be applied here.

For my guess... Hush would either be tommy(too obvious),two-face(also obvious)azrael(that's a surprise!), harold was the one who used the pits, clayface was the corpse. arrrrghhh I don;t know anymore!!! Jepoh Loeb is one hell good writer! he could have evrything tied up from catwoman to luthor to two-face till the end!!!

[Kon_el]

didn't Azrael buy the farm in the last issue of his comic?

[Perfectstorm]

Originally posted by Kon_el
didn't Azrael buy the farm in the last issue of his comic? I dont know, but that doesnt matter in the Hush story, becuase of the involvment of the pits.

My guess is Two-Face (evil persona) is actually in charge of Harvey now that he looks good, and has done all this useing Clayface and Azreal, who is actually the guy under the bandages

[Azrael0626]

Originally posted by Kon_el
didn't Azrael buy the farm in the last issue of his comic?
He "supposedly" did, but they never found the body. In comics that means the character is just in a state of limbo. Trust me, it isn't him. He isn't even on the list of suspects.

[rouge2]

Harvey already has a perfectly good double running around. It was an actor who was nearly identical to him. Two-Face scarred him in a similar manner and brainwashed him into thinking he was Two-Face. He could easily have become the "other" Harvey, working for Two-Face in this story. I think he last appeared around Detective 585 or so. Can't remember his name though. ####, gonna have to dig out those issues....

[Spideyfan29]

As predictable as it is, it pretty much HAS to be Tommy, because the Bandage guy has been whining about friendship for the whole story.

[Heroclixrules]

Originally posted by Azrael0626
Trust me, it isn't him. He isn't even on the list of suspects.

He isnt? In a sense, he COULD be. Think about it, why is Batman and Bruce Wayne listed as suspects? Wouldnt Bruce be enough? Jean Paul Valley believed he was the real Batman, and that Gotham was "his" city. There are several other ideas that could support this. Example, on the variant cover of 619, Hush is on the Batman Allies cover. Could this be because he was once an ally of Batman? Also, this is speculation of course but, when Hush punched Robin and said "pretender" could he have been speaking to Batman? Calling Batman a pretender, since Hush does not think that Batman is the "real" Batman?

[rouge2]

Ok, after digging out the issues (Detective 580-581), the Two-Face double's name was Paul Sloane. It was his second appearance. Also the story is in continuity (I assume) as it features the "updated" version of the Jason Todd Robin (and since there's so few of those stories before his death, I'd assume they wouldn't jettison many of them).

A long shot I know, but an interesting possibility.

[Spideyfan29]

Hey, can anyone give me a little more background on the Harold guy?

OH! and maybe the hush on the heroes cover is the Harvey dent we've been seeing. and the one on the villains cover is an entirely evil "two"face. Maybe they split. That would fit well with the soul in two bodies. I dunno, just a thought

[JacinB]

Originally posted by Spideyfan29
As predictable as it is, it pretty much HAS to be Tommy, because the Bandage guy has been whining about friendship for the whole story.

Who is considered by many to be Batman's best friend? Robin. Perhaps instead of referring to Tim Drake 'pretending' to be Robin, maybe he was referring to Robin 'pretending' to be Batman/Bruce's best friend.

There's a great chance that there's more to the Tommy story than what we've seen in the flashbacks, and there could be a good reason written in later for why he now apparently hates Bruce/Batman so much.

[AZS]

Being that Loeb is writing this, Hush is gonna be one of two people; Two Face, the villian in both of Loeb's previous Batman stories (seemingly a favorite of his), or Tommy. Since Loeb also has "killed off" the mastermind only to bring him back at the very end.
Both characters can fit the current clues and Loeb's style for 'trick' endings.

[JacinB]

Originally posted by azs
Being that Loeb is writing this, Hush is gonna be one of two people; Two Face, the villian in both of Loeb's previous Batman stories (seemingly a favorite of his), or Tommy.

Yes, but it then wouldn't be Two-Face if he's been the main villian in two stories already. Why would he be the main villian in a third? It just doesn't fit his M.O. :)

[Azrael0626]

Originally posted by Heroclixrules
He isnt? In a sense, he COULD be. Think about it, why is Batman and Bruce Wayne listed as suspects? Wouldnt Bruce be enough? Jean Paul Valley believed he was the real Batman, and that Gotham was "his" city. There are several other ideas that could support this. Example, on the variant cover of 619, Hush is on the Batman Allies cover. Could this be because he was once an ally of Batman? Also, this is speculation of course but, when Hush punched Robin and said "pretender" could he have been speaking to Batman? Calling Batman a pretender, since Hush does not think that Batman is the "real" Batman?
One of the characters listed in the list of suspects is Hush. That's what the contest is all about. Both Bruce Wayne and Batman are listed because it has been stated multiple times that Batman & Bruce are almost two different people. Some people like myself thought it may be a dream of some kind where Bruce is actually Hush messing with Batman.
Jean Paul Valley believed that he was the only Batman and the city was his back when he actually was Batman and a little insane. At the end of the Azrael series Jean Paul not only vanquished his inner demons, but he also cut his ties to Batman by defeating him in a fight and in doing so finally became his only man. There is no reason for him to hate Batman or want to harm him. To make him Hush would undo everything. It just makes no sense and like I said, Azrael isn't smart enough to pull off what Hush has.
And Hush didn't punsh Robin and call him pretender. It was Clayface pretending to be Jason Todd.

[malchyor]

i was right about tommy being a half brother (look backwards in this thread...). and i'm right about this too: bruce wayne is hush. i don't know how just yet, cuz this isn't a dream sequence. but it's close. wayne's personality was moved to tommy's body somehow. he knows it. now that they're really separate, bruce wants bats to see all the pain he's caused and how useless he's really been in the way of "stopping crime" (did anyone notice that all his greatest foes are now out of jail at the same time? who do you think got them out?).

i do kinda wonder how they'll tie this kinda ending up neatly at the end...but can't wait to see it play out.

[Masada]

Dude, Bruce Wayne didn't shoot Harold in front of Batman last issue..

[Spideyfan29]

So we're all agreed on:
the involvement of Tommy, Harvey Dent, maybe Lex Luthor (that trail seems to have gone cold) Anything else?

[Spideyfan29]

How do you think the last issue will play out? Will Bats and HUSH do battle, and then Bats unmasks HUSH afterwards (Scooby Doo style)? Or does HUSH remove the bandages right away? Which is more dramatic? Is anyone still reading this thread?

[Mayberry Bat]

I'm still reading this thread.

I just hope all of the loose ends and clues get tied up nicely. I was one of many that thought this story started off very choppy and convoluted. But it kept my attention and it's gotten better as it's went along. So I just hope the last chapter isn't a dissappointment.

[batfink]

OK, how about this...

1st panel-Batman turns around and says"Tommy...Why?"

Hush unmasks. He says:"Bruce, Batman destroyed our friendship. All the times I needed you Batman got in the way. If I destroy Batman, we can be friends again. You can just be Bruce."

Batman won't be able to fight Tommy, but Nightwing will.

[TyeDyeSamurai]

1st Panel - Batman: "Wha? Who are you?"

"I am Captain America, Steve Rogers. I keep finding too many assinie threads about who would win in a fight, me or you. I can't take it anymore! After I kill you, it'll all be over..."

[absalom_daak]

I'm guessing that if it was Clayface masquerading as Jason Todd, then it could quite easily also have been him as the restored Harvey.

This would also explain why Two-Face's face was fixed as it would make it harder to spot any mistakes (in the same way that Jason was aged).

However while this would result in no major upsets of the Batman status quo, it doesn't explain about the whole 'restored license' which allowed 'Harvey' to get the Joker out of Arkham.

Incidentally if it is Tommy (and I think the jade ring thing is the clincher) then it was almost certainly Clayface who was found in the alley and who was subsequently buried.

So it is possible for them to make this just the Clayface and Elliott show.

[Spideyfan29]

I just wish I knew something about this Harold guy

[rouge2]

Originally posted by Spideyfan29
I just wish I knew something about this Harold guy

Harold the computer genius was introduced during the Alan Grant years (maybe during Peter Milligan's stint, I'm not sure, but it was in that time frame).

He was a mute hunchback shunned by society who ended up working for the Penguin. When Bats came in and saved the day at the end of the story he realised Harold wasn't really bad, just exploited and in need of a home. He took him in and set him up in the Batcave, where he went to work updating the computer and some of his equipment.

He was still there as of Knightfall/Knightquest. He and Ace (The Bat-Hound) were living in a remote corner of the Batcave while Azrael/Batman was was having his little meltdown. That storyline really stunk (IMHO) and I dropped all Batbooks because of it until Hush, so I honestly don't know what Harold's been up to in the interim.

[Darth Sabre]

Harold's not up to much now, since he's dead! :p

[batfink]

Harold's not up to much now, since he's dead! Unless, it was Clay Face pretending to be Harold.

[Spideyfan29]

Thanks, rouge2

[Kon_el]

Originally posted by rouge2
I dropped all Batbooks because of it until Hush, so I honestly don't know what Harold's been up to in the interim.

Not much. He pretty much droped off the face of the earth after that. I think there may have been a mention of him here and there but that was about him. He was all but forgoten by the writers.

[Concorde]

First of all, i believe that Jason Todd is not even an option. Right before scarecrow wus knocked out he remarked on how his fear gas did not work and batman must alrdy have been exposed... and that was that. this lead me to believe that Jason Todd is simply a result of the fear gas. I have strong feelings that hush is indeed Thomas Eliot. One reason is that he was introduced for what i think was the first time duyring hush which could mean hes a one shot charcter. Second of all is his death and the lazarus pit defilation. Third, he could do it. He had the rescources.

[Concorde]

And i also hated the whole azreal thing. I skiped through it.

[Concorde]

During NML alfred told harold to go away, and he did

[DJBot]

someone on another site had an interesting theory that the lazarus pit may have been used to heal two-face and in the process split the two personalities into two seperate distinct people. After reading the latest issue i'm starting to think this is a possibillity and although Harvey Dent may not be Hush, the coin flipping two face is....

[Spideyfan29]

Originally posted by DJBot
someone on another site had an interesting theory that the lazarus pit may have been used to heal two-face and in the process split the two personalities into two seperate distinct people. After reading the latest issue i'm starting to think this is a possibillity and although Harvey Dent may not be Hush, the coin flipping two face is....

Originally posted by Spideyfan29
OH! and maybe the hush on the heroes cover is the Harvey Dent we've been seeing. and the one on the villains cover is an entirely evil "two"face. Maybe they split. That would fit well with the soul in two bodies. I dunno, just a thought

Hey that IS a good idea

[FoxInStocks]

Holy smokes. That Two-Face theory actually makes SENSE. And it could actually WORK.

I suddenly hope that's it. A normal Harvey and a evil Two-Face? Works for me! Certianly fits Loeb's love of the character!:p

[Flashback81]

SO then the question begs, what would the now entirely evil TwoFace look like? Would he have an entire face like the original bad half of TwoFace? OR a whole new mix?

Either or, it would be true that a new villain was brough into the series, even if it was a remaking of an old villain.

[BudPalmer]

I'll admit to not reading the whole Hush storyline but a few things keep coming up. Everyone has discussed the covers that show allies and ememies Hush being on both covers. It has occurred to me that if Hush is standing with the ememies and the allies that he couldn't be one of the other people pictured. That said he because he also appears on both covers He would have to be someone who is/was an ally. Could it be Azreal? He had access to the Bat Computer and as a result he read everything about Bruce and his enemies. He kinda had a falling out with Bats so perhaps this will be his reintroduction as an enemy. As my friend said: He's the only one not accounted for. Just a thought.

[malephoenix]

Okay, I was sure that Tommy Elliot was Hush. But now, after reading these theories on a "split" Two Face, I am starting to buy into that. My only problem is: wasn't there only one lazarus pit used? And if it was used to heal Two-Face (and subsequently separate him), then it couldn't have been used to heal Harold. So how did Harold get better?

Oh, and to answer the first q that Flashback81 asked a couple posts above --> Probably a lot like the silhouette holding a batarang in the last shot of issue 609.

[Spideyfan29]

There was a question about the visibly scarred person at the end of 609 ("we make war that we may live in peace"). If two face did split that would be the totally disfigured evil half. What would we call him anyways? He can't be TWO face anymore. Kinda makes you think.

[Spideyfan29]

If it is two face, we also need a motivation for this year-long attack on batman. "cause he hates batman" is not enough. Plus, how did he find out bats's secret?

Quick! We only have another week to guess at this.

[malchyor]

guys,...it's already been revealed. over at the DC comics forum somebody released it.

go there if you want the spoiler, or keep coming up with far reaching theories over here.

gotta say, it was one of the theories that i had, and then dismissed.

[JacinB]

They wouldn't split Two-Face, because they'd have to eventually find a way to put him back together and that simply wouldn't work.

And, as for why Hush appears on both covers ... why does his appearance on the 'Heroes' cover automatically make him an ally? Can we say 'Over-Analyzing'?

Perhaps Hush is there because he is what brought all of the heroes together over the course of this particular story. You know, kind of like Batman is on the 'Villians' cover because he is the common link that brought them all together ... noone is saying that Batman must be the villian because he's on that cover, too, are they? :rolleyes:

For the record, I'm as certain as I was after his first appearance in this story that Tommy Elliot is Hush. Everything else in the story leading to someone else was simply included to throw you off the trail.

[metzgarob]

I still think its the riddler

[BudPalmer]

Yeah someone told who it was. But believe me, they didn't spoil it, Loeb did.

[JonnyZ]

Originally posted by Spideyfan29
If it is two face, we also need a motivation for this year-long attack on batman. "cause he hates batman" is not enough. Plus, how did he find out bats's secret?

Catwoman's sudden involvement in Batman's life, this year full of attacks, the mystery figure in the trench coat... it all points to one thing. Alberto Falcone is Holid-- wait, I think I'm confusing my Loeb again.

[malephoenix]

First, a great big THANKS to malchyor and BudPalmer for not spoiling the big secret by posting it on here. I, for one, am looking forward to finding it out by reading the issue upon release. And also, Spideyfan29, we know that whoever Hush is, they got their answers from Harold. Harold told the mystery person in return for being healed. There's no need for another source of information since they already have had him.

[Spideyfan29]

And also, malephoenix, we know that HUSH knew who batman was BEFORE he got to Harold. "He knew who you were without the mask."

[Spideyfan29]

Anyone? Anyone?

Bueller....Bueller....Bueller

[Spideyfan29]

Here we are Gentlemen....and Ladies. Tomorrow is the big day. Seems like no one's been talking but me for the past week. Now I'm going to get quiet. Due to circumstances beyond my control, I won't be getting a copy of Batman #619 til Saturday at the earliest, most likely Monday. To avoid being spoiled, I'm gonna stay away from this thread til then. Enjoy the next few days.

[batfink]

Its already been spoiled on the DC list. However, I don't want to know until I read it. Mini-poll:Will you be buying the villians cover, Bat Allies cover, or both?

[Spideyfan29]

I'm buying one copy of each cover (to bag and board) and a random fourth one (to read).

[Grinner]

Originally posted by Spideyfan29
Seems like no one's been talking but me for the past week.

I think most of us are just trying to figure out how this is all going to be tied up neatly in a single issue.

[Spideyfan29]

Is it a double sized issue?

[FoxInStocks]

Okay, #619 is out. I've read the 'spoilers' over on the DC message boards, but the grammar over there is so mish-mash I've still no clue what they're talking about. So if someone who's read the issue would be so kind as to PM me the rundown on what #619 reveals...I'd be very appreciative. :)

[Kevin187]

Ok, guys 619 is out... someone spill it....

[Flashback81]

Hush is Clayface...

No, actually Hush is Jason Todd...

No, actually, Hush is Two-Face

Seriously....


SPOILER.
.
.
.
.
.
Hush is Tommy Elliot

The suprise, who orchestrated it all? Not Lesx, Not Joker, Not Two-Face, Not Ra's, Not Alfred.....it was The Riddler...
Yeah, that floored me too ...
Read it, buy two copies...enjoy it!

[HowieTheDuck]

Did anyone else find this finish a little less than what they were hoping for? I think this was one of my most enjoyable reads of the year, I had originally only intended on picking up the first issue of the arc, but the story hooked me. The Superman and Joker fights were amazing, "Jason Todd" returning was great. Everything leading up to this issue floored me, and then here it was. I don't think I was expecting too much out of it, I'd never read Batman before so didn't have much history to judge by. Hush being who he was and the reasons behind it were interesting, and the mastermind behind it all did make sense, he being one of the few major villians not to play a part. It all came together quite nicely, everything made sense and I have no complaints about it, other than it wasn't what I expected. I would like to add, that I had thought Hush was Tommy. (he was the only character that I didn't know, and he did show up out of nowhere for all I could tell) Am I going to say I knew who shot "him", who actually was shot, who was behind it all, why it was going on, nope, just that after his first appearance, I said to myself, "I bet it's him." Did I dismiss it after he was "shot", for awhile, but when I couldn't think of anyone else to fill the shoes, I could only come back to Mr. Elliot.

[FoxInStocks]

SPOILER, MAYBE












What's this I hear about Harvey finally overcoming Two-Face? Is good ol' Harv finally back in action? That's not to say I didn't like Two-Face, but I really always did want to see Harvey Dent make a triumphant return. :)

[jay_of_titan]

I knew it was tommy early on...new character & a new villian how curious...Harvey was the best hook for me, but what did Superman burn off Batman's neck. They never really explain or detail. I kinda thought Riddler was something more, but the Ra al Gul connection threw me off...not a bad ending but not the greatest---should've been double sized

[Redleg]

So here's what I don't understand...if for some reason Tommy Elliot was crazy enough to justify his own lame motive for hating Wayne...why didn't he kill him on the operating table when Wayne's life was in his hands? Was he just following the comic book villain rule of giving the hero a chance to overcome later?

Also...who was it that cut the batline at first? Cause I have a hard time believing that a surgeon possesses the agility to toss a blade/batarang/shuriken at a swinging batline.

[Ro-gan]

Originally posted by jay_of_titan
I knew it was tommy early on...new character & a new villian how curious...Harvey was the best hook for me, but what did Superman burn off Batman's neck. They never really explain or detail. I kinda thought Riddler was something more, but the Ra al Gul connection threw me off...not a bad ending but not the greatest---should've been double sized

Superman heat visioned a microtransmitter that Tommy placed in Bruce's head when he operated on him. The microtransmitter allowed Tommy to know where Bats was at all times.

[jay_of_titan]

It's not a matter of killing him, but utterly destroying his life.

[Big]

Hush is Tommy Elliot and Ridler had it all planned...
I just don't get the whole lazarus pits and giving the riddler some clarity that's why he knew who batman is.
Anyways looks like Hush isn't dead and he'll definitely come back in the future and I like the moticvation that he had for coming after Bruce:) So that means there were 3 Hush's Clayface as Robin, Two face and Tommy Elliot? Clayface who was Robin was the one who cut the batline,blew the tires and fought batman,Two face was the one who shot clayface as "Tommy" So that means Tommy was Hush when? only at the end? or when croc was captured and at the end of the secon part? Anyways an average ending shouldve been double sized, and I was hoping that hush was Azrael and Tommy was the one who plotted it all, still can't make sense with the fact that a surgeon can be so good in shooting and fighting that he can beat bats:)

[Spideyfan29]

Thats a good point! Maybe HUSH on the bridge was clayface again. Supes couldn't find him in the water 'cause he dissolved maybe? just a thought.

[Guardian]

A hole in the plot that I'm wondering about, and maybe I've been watching too much CSI, how did Tommy Elliot (Clayface) get shot, killed, and buried without having an autopsy performed on him? Is that normal in a murder case, especially when there's some doubt as to who did it? Do Clayface's powers extend to creating organs that can be dissected and still show as normal human tissue? Two-Face told Commish. Jim that it would be discovered that it was his gun that was used. Was the bullet recovered from Elliot's/Clayface's 'body' or from a wall behind him or what? That's just my nitpick and something I think could have helped Bats clear things up a bit faster.

[Mayberry Bat]

There was an autopsy. I can't remember which issue it was, but Batman commented on it. (I think it was the one with Nightwing.) He said something about the autopsy not being right. They didn't elaborate on that statement though.

[Spideyfan29]

There was a comment on another thread asking: how could a normal guy like Tommy Elliot hold his own in a fight against Batman? I had trouble explaining this, but then remembered little Tommy smacked little Bruce silly in one of those flashbacks (with the jade necklace). The immortal words of Master Betty (Kung Pow: Enter the Fist) also came to mind:
"I spanked you as a baby, I'll spank you now, #####!"