Batman HUSH disscussion

[Spideyfan29]

What the @#$%?????
Jason Todd? You gotta be kidding me!
Does anybody buy this? Or do you think Scarecrow's toxins ARE effecting Bats?

[Darth Sabre]

Dang it, I should not have come here! :mad:

I haven't picked mine up from the shop yet!

[JacinB]

Argh! I've been spoiled! Someone last week hinted at that and I wrote it off as not something that they would ever do. Jason Todd is as dead as Bucky ...

But no. I mean, why would someone who was dead actually stay dead? Stupid raggin' fraggin' Lazarus pits.

[FoxInStocks]

I heard about this. And I dunno...I'm torn between the coolness of the shock value, and the 'duh' of having yet ANOTHER killed off character brought back to be the mystery villan.

But, I digress...I'll wait until the whole story arc is done to pass judgement. Maybe it is the Scarecrow's toxins.

Though if it is Todd, it sure does open a whole new can of questions. Like, how the heck are they going to explain him surviving the Joker's beatdown AND the following explosion AND Batman, a master detective, holding Todd's cold, dead body in his arms and missing that Todd wasn't really a cold, dead body. :ermm: :rolleyes: :cross-eye

[JacinB]

Unless, Batman himself was the one who put him in the Lazarus pits ... ?!

I mean, who else would have both known about the pits and have been there in time to get the body to the pits and still have it be recoverable?

[FoxInStocks]

Originally posted by JacinB
Unless, Batman himself was the one who put him in the Lazarus pits ... ?!

I mean, who else would have both known about the pits and have been there in time to get the body to the pits and still have it be recoverable?

Ooooo...While I doubt that's what happened, that's a pretty nifty explanation. I wouldn't mind seeing that, actually!

[Scarecrow 1.5]

Originally posted by Spideyfan29
What the @#$%?????
Jason Todd? You gotta be kidding me!
Does anybody buy this? Or do you think Scarecrow's toxins ARE effecting Bats?


where did u find this out at???

[Clix776]

Okay. Practice this with me:

"Batman HUSH disscussion - SPOILERS!"

I am so aggravated by your ruining this for me that I don't even care that you can't spell "discussion".

Have a Great Day,
Gary E. Poisson

[JacinB]

Or, maybe it's just one big Zero Hour effect where Jason Todd never really died and everyone just still remembers the other universe where everyone thinks he did ...

[FoxInStocks]

Heck, let's just say it's Todd's evil twin and be done with it.

[Redleg]

Originally posted by FoxInStocks

But, I digress...I'll wait until the whole story arc is done to pass judgement. Maybe it is the Scarecrow's toxins.


I was thinking the same thing over in the DC Comics section of this same forum.

As for it being Todd....Ghul could've snagged the body and done the Lazarus pit magic.

Afterall...this is the same guy that stole Bruce Wayne's Parents and stole the plans to defeat the JLA from the "Batcomputer."

One question, though...in 617...Bats mentions nothing is random about where the sword was placed in the cave.

Where was it placed?

And one final thing....gotta put SPOILER in your subject man...this is a pretty big thing to reveal.

[JacinB]

As for the sword, I think it was in front of Jason Todd's Robin uniform 'shrine'.

[Redleg]

BTW...if it IS Scarecrow's toxin that's jacking up Bats...then Bruce Wayne needs to pick up a "Super Villain Fashion Magazine Weekly."

The imagined Todd's costume looks really lame.

[FoxInStocks]

Originally posted by Redleg
And one final thing....gotta put SPOILER in your subject man...this is a pretty big thing to reveal.

I gotta agree...I already knew about Todd, so I expected that coming in here, but for everyone else...well, this can really kill the suspense. :P

[Spideyfan29]

Originally posted by Clix776
Okay. Practice this with me:

"Batman HUSH disscussion - SPOILERS!"

I am so aggravated by your ruining this for me that I don't even care that you can't spell "discussion".

Have a Great Day,
Gary E. Poisson

Yeah, I'm REAL sorry about that. I screwed up my first attempt at this post (THAT time, i remembered "spoiler"). The second attempt was written much quicker. I am very sorry about spoiling this for you guys.

[Spideyfan29]

Does anyone else think it's kinda funny that they advertise the "Who is HUSH?" contest on the left, and give you the "answer" on the right?
I still have my doubts. I thought it was Tommy since he first appeared. If this Todd vision is merely an effect of Scarecrow's toxins, then it may very well be. I mean Jason was on Bats's mind throughout this issue, so he would likely be Bats's biggest fear at that time. So maybe it was Tommy that came back from the dead. Here's why I think its Tommy:
1. Those flashbacks:
A. "think like your enemy"
B. "Give it back....or I'll hurt you so bad" (might be paraphrasing there)

2. We learned from Bruce's internal monologue, at Tommy's funeral, that Bruce was not there for Tommy during the rough times, ie: his mother's death. (*cough* MOTIVE!*cough*)

3. He's a doctor, therefore rich, therefore he has the resources to orchestrate this whole thing.

Just a theory.

[FoxInStocks]

My only problem with the Tommy theory is that it's so OBVIOUS. True, often the culprit is the one right under your nose, but this just seems too easy.

Hey! Maybe it's the Penguin! No, wait...ignore that... :p

[Scarecrow 1.5]

well i want it to be jason.......but ...the hush series doesnt end to 8/27/03 of guess who hush is on dc's main website

[Spideyfan29]

Yeah! where is penguin? Is he still alive? I only follow BIG story arcs when it comes to Bats and Supes.

[Spideyfan29]

OH and i scratch my #3 reason from a couple posts back. Hush got 5 Million bucks from Ivy back in issue 609 (I did some research).

[Scarecrow 1.5]

heres info about bats #618

Written by Jeph Loeb; art and cover by Jim Lee and Scott Williams

After the shocking revelations of last issue, Batman faces the battle of his life! But given the betrayals he's discovered, can Batman possibly fight the one person whom he cannot—and will not—fight? Was this the master plan all along? Or are there still more twists to come? One thing is for sure: you can't miss this issue!

BATMAN | 32pg. | Color | $2.25
On Sale August 27th, 2003

[Azrael0626]

It's neither Tommy or Jason. It's too obvious. The gas is affecting Batman's mind and I seriously doubt that it's really Jason Todd standing there and if it truly is he is still not Hush. The answer is going to floor everyone.

[TyeDyeSamurai]

I really want to get into Batman HUSH!
But everytime I'm at the comic shop picking up TPBs I check out HUSH and it's Hardcover bound and like 10 pages for something crazy like $50.

Of course I'm exaggerating, but it's a tiny amount of pages for a ridiculous amount of money. Hasn't it been released in any other format?

[Scarecrow 1.5]

God knows it could be #### (nightwing) being mindcontrolled by some one

[Spideyfan29]

how far does the hardcover go? first 6 issues? 7? 8?

[TyeDyeSamurai]

Originally posted by Spideyfan29
how far does the hardcover go? first 6 issues? 7? 8?

On top of the hardcovering it's usually sealed in plastic too... so I don't know.

[Spideyfan29]

I seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[JasonTodd]

All I got to Say is the Picture of Jason Todd Gas or No Gas Looks AWSOME!!!

[Spideyfan29]

Originally posted by JasonTodd
All I got to Say is the Picture of Jason Todd Gas or No Gas Looks AWSOME!!!

Originally posted by Redleg
BTW...if it IS Scarecrow's toxin that's jacking up Bats...then Bruce Wayne needs to pick up a "Super Villain Fashion Magazine Weekly."

The imagined Todd's costume looks really lame.

You two should hang out.

[Scarecrow 1.5]

Hush might not be Jason Todd but for sure Jason is alive ....

Batman was the only one that knew Jason thought it was all a game ...

this quote gives it away in batman #617
"Lifes just a game Batman"-Hush

[Spideyfan29]

Originally posted by Scarecrow 1.5
Hush might not be Jason Todd but for sure Jason is alive ....

Batman was the only one that knew Jason thought it was all a game ...

this quote gives it away in batman #617
"Lifes just a game Batman"-Hush

True, buuuuuuuuut it would be Batman's (Anyone else feel weird calling him Batman when we all know his real name?) subconscious that would be making up what Jason was saying to. Right?

[Scarecrow 1.5]

for sure its one of these thats what Dc has said
Batman
bruceWayne
catwoman
clayface
Harvey Dent
Hugo Strange
lexLuthor
Jason Todd
Jim Gordon
Killer Croc
Martian Manhunter
Nightwing
Thomas Wayne
Superman
The Joker
The Penguin
The Riddler
The Roman
Tommy Elliot
Two-Face



Whover is Hush knows about the Pits, That Jason is Dead and Could get Scarecrows Gas, or trick Scarecrow

Any Suggestions you think it is

This Sounds weird but putting the Puzzler together its Nightwing or Bruce Wayne what do u think?-Can BAtman have a brother a clone ....his future self?????

[themark37]

Originally posted by Spideyfan29
how far does the hardcover go? first 6 issues? 7? 8?

It reprints 608-612.


Anyway my thoughts on this is if you all remember Hush was controling Poison Ivy and she was controling Superman. So why could Hush be controlling Scarecrow who is controling Jason?

Or...

Maybe Hush is actualy Scarecrow and he is just using Jason to throw Batman off track.

Or...

We never actually see the Joker kill Tommy. We only see Joker holding a gun and a "person" who looks like Tommy lying there dead.

Those are just a couple of things that I have thought about while I have been reading the series. Although, it could very well be Jason, because in 614 while Bats is destroying the Joker Batmans anger partially comes from the Joker killing Jason.

[Spideyfan29]

the beginning of your last sentence confused the hell outta me. is there a puzzle somewhere (Ala the covers of Bruce Wayne: fugitive)?

[Scarecrow 1.5]

It Cant be Scarecrow .....unless hes playing an act in #617

[KaiserSelroc]

I think its Alfred. Its about time Alfred revealed he has been the true evil mastermind all along.

When in doubt, the butler did it!

[Spideyfan29]

The butler did it!
HAHAHA!
I love it!

[WarHULK]

I say it's the Riddler because they showed him in the series once already and Batman said he was pretty much just a joke of a villain these days. It was the least connected of all the villains he's fought since the begining of the story arc. What better way to revitalize the Riddler into a "modern" villain once again?

Yes, I know this is a long shot, infact, I'm half joking about this... but at this point almost nothing could suprise me.

I don't know how the Riddler would learn so much about Batman, Jason, etc... but yea...

I've found Tommy to be rather suspect ever since they introduced him... This old friend we've never heard of just shows up out of nowhere and bam, dead...

Also, what's up with so many characters having full head bandages? Harvey was all wrapped up when he went to visit the Joker, now Jason Todd, who next?? Look! It's mummy Alfred!

OK, OK, seriously, I think it maybe Clayface. He could make himself look like anyone... he could have found out all about Bats by mimicing Robin or Alfred, learned all his sorrid secrets and then go on a total mind trip with him. One minute he looks like Tommy, next he's playing a "cured" harvey dent, next he's going with the "resurrected Jason Todd" look... but would that be all TOO easy for this story arc?

The only thing I can't understand is how whomever Hush is, how are they controlling all these people? The only person on that list of characters with any psychic powers is Martian Manhunter, correct? I don't think he'd be doing this... but, uh... I dunno.

So, in closing, I have no clue who it is! haha. I think it's most likely Clayface but my second guess would have to be Riddler for the sheer insanity of it all.

[themark37]

Originally posted by Scarecrow 1.5
It Cant be Scarecrow .....unless hes playing an act in #617

Why not??? It is a possibility. Anyway who knows whats going on in the mind of Loeb and Lee. They have just signed Loeb to an exclusive DC deal and this series has been one of hottest series going today. I am sure DC is up for anything just to keep the excitement going.

[dernjg]

Hugo Strange I believe is a MC character (to do some clix speak).

[Scarecrow 1.5]

Originally posted by KaiserSelroc
I think its Alfred. Its about time Alfred revealed he has been the true evil mastermind all along.

When in doubt, the butler did it!

Dc didnt give that choice for the boting in there poll of who do you think Hush is?

[themark37]

Alfred is indeed on the list, I just went and made my prediction.

It could also be Barbara. She is the Oracle so she knows where is his most of the time and she knows everything about him or has access to most of it. She has been feeding him info through out the series. More then likely, she told Gordon where to find Batman when he trying to kill the Joker. She could have also sent Huntress to help save Batmans life at the beginning.

Another thing that points to Tommy is Batman almost died durning the beginning of the series and it was Tommy that saved him. May it was just part of the torment and to throw him off by saving his life.

[mpdfuzz]

I think you are all missing the fact that HUSH showed his face to the Joker earlier, and was Harvey Dent. My guess is HUSH is someone who can mold his features, changing his identity.

I am not a huge Batman fan, only picked this HUSH up, so I am unable to think of a character that fits the bill. Wasn't there a villain that was an expert at disguise? When Mist wiped out the JLE, she mentioned she studied under this guy who was a Batman foe.... Could that be him?

Remember, LOEB loves misdirection. There is no way he had revealed all his cards with 2 issues left. I for one am completly sure this is not Jason Todd, just another Red Herring.

My 2cents

[Spideyfan29]

Clayface IS on the list. Just a reminder

[Perfectstorm]

I dunno, didnt clayface have some problems holding himself together.

I got My money on Riddler and Clayface. Riddler is the mind behind the operation, while Clayface is the one to toy with batman.

[scooby_blah]

Take a moment and think of how many people have used in this hush story line, probably over a dozen(would check but im too lazy:p) and im just thinking that jason todd maybe another pawn to "Hushe's Game"

[BatMan1]

come on its jason todd don't you see the signature crowbar mashed in his skull? he came back because hes jealous of tim gettin all the attention in the batcave!!

[DCBebop]

Reason #1:
The "Who is Hush?" contest ad on the page next to the revelation.

#2:
Batman was exposed to Scarecrow's toxin a page before the revelation. I think he is seeing his worst fear.

#3:
Jason Todd (if in fact it is him and not a shape shifter like Clayface) has been dead way to long for a Lazurus pit to bring him back. Ras Al Ghul said the pit was defiled a few months ago, not years ago, and in order to be revived in the pit you could only be dead for an hour or so (I think).

#4:
Again if it is in fact Jason Todd, somebody had to take him to the pit. (Not like his dead ### could get there by himself)

So who is Hush? Well, lets put the facts together.

The person has recently died and this person is also a master manipulator. And it's someone off that list from the contest...

My money is on Penguin. Apparently he "died" a few months ago (though it wouldn't be the first time Cobblepott has faked his death). He is a master manipulator. Batman has said many times the Penguin is the most intelligent of his villains (even to the one point of saying The Penguin was even smarter than himself). Jeph Loeb is big fan of the character. Penguin also has the money and resources to pull this whole scam off. I think this whole story may have been an elaborate set-up by Loeb and Lee to make us realize the Penguin is more than a joke. He has been one of Batman's main antagonists for years and years, and this story will show us why that is...

But that's just my theory... I could be wrong...

[Clix776]

Originally posted by Spideyfan29
Yeah, I'm REAL sorry about that. I screwed up my first attempt at this post (THAT time, i remembered "spoiler"). The second attempt was written much quicker. I am very sorry about spoiling this for you guys. I appreciate that. I'm familiar with the frustration of losing a post to finicky forum tech. Thanks.

Have a Great Day,
Gary E. Poisson

[FoxInStocks]

Originally posted by TyeDyeSamurai
I really want to get into Batman HUSH!
But everytime I'm at the comic shop picking up TPBs I check out HUSH and it's Hardcover bound and like 10 pages for something crazy like $50.

Of course I'm exaggerating, but it's a tiny amount of pages for a ridiculous amount of money. Hasn't it been released in any other format?

I thought the same thing, dude. But if you're a Batman fan, bite the bullet and get it. It's a great story and worth the money.

The hardcover is pointless, though. :ermm:

[K26dp]

It's the Martian Manhunter. He's getting back at Batman for the Tower of Babel mess. Serves him right, too.

:eek:

[batfink]

I'll wait until WWC, buy almost the whole series, & get it signed too. :cool:

[unworthysaint]

I've always been a Jim Lee fan, so when I heard he was doin Batman I coudnt wait to see how he would handle the Dark Knight.So far I havent been dissapointed.My only problam is that it has to come to an end.I was glad to hear that Jim and company were signed on to do a 6part story arc at the beginning of the year but I guess thats been delayed until after his Superman run starting in March or so.It'll be nice to see what kind of hype Jim Lee will stir with the Man of Steel.If its as good as his "HUSH" story arc,then Im there!

[Scarecrow 1.5]

Hush is Alfred or Nightwing

[bluebeetle]

could somebody please explain the tower of bibel mess to me??

[Criosphinx]

The Tower of Babel is a JLA storyarc wherein Ra's Al Ghul steals all of Batman's secrets that he's been gathering against his fellow Leaguers, and uses them to practically destroy the entire JLA. Afterwards, when Batman had thwarted Ra's, the JLA was, to say the least, very upset. The voted, very closely, to expel Batman. He obviously came back, but people might still be holding hard feelings.

Hope this helps!
-Criosphinx

[TyeDyeSamurai]

Both the Tower of Babel and Divided We Fall TPBs are good storylines that are worth picking up. It'll also explain all the controversy from Ra's Al Ghul stealing Batman's secrets, Batman's expulsion and his subsequent reinstatement into the JLA.

[BigDandle]

The Scarecrow mentioned that his gas wasn't working on Batman and said he must be under the influence of someone else. So that eliminates the Scarecrow.

On a completely different subject everyone should go read the latest issue of the Flash, if you liked the Suprise ending of Batman 617 you'll love Flash 200.

[bluebeetle]

I have a few question partianing to batman
-who is the roman
-who is hugo strange
-could nay body give me osme back gorund info and ras a gouhl
-how did he find out about the lazarus pits
-how do the lazarus pits work
-where is the penguin and the clayfaces irght now
thank you very much

[Spideyfan29]

dude, did you type that drunk?

[bluebeetle]

no but i did hit the wonrg button instead of spell check

[ThanosTitan]

I don't even say stuff that stupid when I'm drunk.

[bluebeetle]

I have a few question pertaining to batman
-who is the roman
-who is Hugo strange
-could nay body give me some back ground info and ras a ghoul
-how did he find out about the Lazarus pits
-how do the Lazarus pits work
-where is the penguin and the clay faces right now
thank you very much

[DTM]

Originally posted by Criosphinx
The Tower of Babel is a JLA storyarc wherein Ra's Al Ghul steals all of Batman's secrets that he's been gathering against his fellow Leaguers, and uses them to practically destroy the entire JLA. Afterwards, when Batman had thwarted Ra's, the JLA was, to say the least, very upset. The voted, very closely, to expel Batman. He obviously came back, but people might still be holding hard feelings.

Hope this helps!
-Criosphinx

Not only did he steal his plans to defeat the JLA from Batman, HE STOLE BATMANS PARENTS.....how sick is that. :p

[DCBebop]

I heard the Penguin was killed in one of Greg Rucka's stories a few months back as for Clayface... which one? There are at least three...

[bluebeetle]

5 by my count
any will do

[Mayberry Bat]

Reviving this from yesterday. I read this thread before getting the comic. ANd after reading it and rereading the entire series I have no idea as to who Hush is.

But a couple of things regarding this issue. It does appear that Jason Todd is back. It's not Scarecrow's gas. Besides the point that he says Batman is already being controlled, Jason knocked out Tim before Scarecrow gassed Bats. That being said, it wouldn't surprise me if it's Clayface shapechanged into an older looking Jason. (But how did he know?)

The butler did it is a great line, but why couldn't he be Hush? Alfred's got access that no one has, NO ONE! Not D i c k, Tim, Jason, Barbara, or anyone knows Batman/Bruce better.

Even in the little box at the back of the comic, says (I'm paraphrasing) Batman has to fight the one person he is unwilling to fight. Could that be Alfred?

What about Thomas Wayne? Is "Dad" really dead? Could he have been watching his son all this time? He could be the one that Batman is unwilling to fight.

I doubt that it's either one. Just throwing out some theories.

I'm glad I stuck with this story, though. It started off really choppy and unconnected. At least the last few issues are bringing things together. Even if I'm still confused as hell as to who Hush could be.

[aj110]

Here's my theory: Hush is actually 2 people. (Much as Holiday was two people in Long Halloween, another Loeb classic). Those two people are Tommy Elliot and Jason Todd.

Tommy is just as smart as Bruce, as the flashbacks tell us. He is also a master manipulater, even at a young age. In one issue he states that the most important piece is the Spy. If Tim Drake can figure out who Batman is, do you think someone who is smarter and actually connected with Bruce Wayne couldn't figure it out?
He is also a doctor, and would have records of the morgue, so he would know if Jason's body was moved. He digs up the body, and resurrects it. Jason is the muscle of Hush, Tommy is the brains.
"But Tommy is dead." you say. well, if he found one Lazerus Pit, he can find another. So he has Jason shoot him, frame Joker. Then Jason takes him to a pit and revives him.
As to it all being a product of the fear gas, absolutely not. Like it was said, Batman had already jumped off the building when Jason beats the hell out of Robin. So that couldn't be a hallucination. AND the thing that best supports the Tommy Elliot theory: Scarecrow says that his fear gas didnt work because Batman was already under the influence of something. When in the entire series has he been under the influence of drugs? When Tommy Elliot performed brain surgery on him. He was in his brain! He could have injected something very easily that has been affecting Batman. I'm convinced it's Tommy and Jason. I think I have good logic backing me up as well.

[Mayberry Bat]

Excellent theory aj110. It completely slipped my mind that Tommy operated on Bruce. And Tommy told Bruce in Metropolis he needed to take care of himself.

Excellent line of thinking. Definitely the most logical line of thinking so far. And it does fit the facts. Two more months to find out if you're right.

[Scarecrow 1.5]

aj110 thats a really good theory theres only one problem with it why would tom go through all this to get revenge on bruce....i mean common dont give a stupid answer like bruce wasnt there when his parents died

[Anjin]

aj110,

Your theory makes alot of sense...but then there is the contest DC is running. In that you get to pick one person...not two. That is the only hole I see in your theory.

[malchyor]

um...because bruce's dad is actually tommy's dad too....?

[Kiryu]

What if it's Catwoman? Completely mind ####ing and just plain ####ing the hell out of Bruce.

[Bookman]

who is Hugo strange?
Hugo is one of my favorite bat villians. Basically he was a normal shrink til he had a 'special clinet'- Silver St. Cloud... Bruce's sweetie of the month. She figured out who Batman was and told her shrink- Hugo.
Hugo Strange then sets up an auction( and this is way before ebay) to sell batman's id... he then reneges because he decides it would be cooler for HIM to be batman.

As for me, I think it's Two Face. I mean we've seen most of the Bat Bad Guys but not Dent... and c'mon he's had plastic surgery several times- why not make himself look like the 2nd Robin?

[darius_dax1]

I still think it is Ra's Al Ghul

[freakazoid_x]

I voted to keep Jason Todd dead, the recent story in Gotham Knights is proof enough of why it was a good idea to kill him. He needs to be dead dead dead dead dead DEAD.

If it's really him I am going to demand my money back for the phone call I made back in 1988 to kill Jason Todd

For those of you who do not know DC actually put it in the hands of the fans to decide if Jason Todd lived or died, even going so far as to draw up an alternate comic where he survived the Jokers attack. The fans had to dial one of two 1-900 numbers. One to keep him alive and another to off the little pisher. My mom did let me call. I voted to kill him. Even as a kid I hated Jason Todd. However the call was something like 3 bucks to make. So if it turns out that he's alive I got a 3 dollar refund coming to me because I voted to kill him. He should be dead. I paid a good 3 bucks so that he wouldn't be alive anymore.

[JacinB]

I'm still convinced that it's Tommy Elliot. I mean, c'mon ... he was created specifically for this storyline as was this new villian Hush. That's the most obvious person there is, everything taking the attention away from him is mere distraction (and good story-telling).

[Masada]

Originally posted by freakazoid_x
Even as a kid I hated Jason Todd. So if it turns out that he's alive I got a 3 dollar refund coming to me because I voted to kill him. He should be dead. I paid a good 3 bucks so that he wouldn't be alive anymore.


That's cruel! :)

[Darth Sabre]

Ok, I picked this issue up yesterday.

I agree with Bookman> I think it's Dent, and have thought that all along.

Freakazoid> Wouldn't that "refund" go to your mom? ;)

[freakazoid_x]

My mom died, I am the next of kin.

[JacinB]

Ouch. Stick your finger in that old wound and wiggle it around, why don't ya? :)

[Darth Sabre]

Originally posted by freakazoid_x
My mom died, I am the next of kin.

My apologies. Since I did not know that, I hope you realize that it was all in jest!

[freakazoid_x]

It's cool, really it wasn't cool of me to bring it up. I've just taken to responding to questions of that manner when money is brought up. Besides, I did have to pay back the 3 bucks to my mom.

[malchyor]

it can't be ra's, cuz he's not on DC's guess list...

[freakazoid_x]

Bottom line is I paid 3 bucks to make Jason Todd stop stinking up the cave with his carppyness. Now if they do bring him back DC/AOL/Time/Warner is just slapping me in the face. If I do demand my money back from (say it with me) DC/AOL/Time/Warner (and I think there's more) I'd probably get sued. But you can't get blood from a turnip so fire away DC, I'll fight demons to get back my precious 3 dollars. Then I can go buy the new SUPERMAN COMIC. Seriously though, what does happen to the fans who paid to kill Jason Todd if they complain? Do they get some sort of reimbursement? Like a free advanced copy of the next part of Hush or something? I mean with the 2 dollar cover price/shipping/advance you'd really get your moneys worth. Or does (one more time for good measure) DC/AOL/Time/Warner politely tell them that their money and votes are meaningless and disenfranchise a lot of fans (not me I'll probably still buy.)

Maybe I just am crying too much about it.

[Bookman]

freakazoid_x

please don't flame me or anything. heck don't even read it( that goes for everyone) if you're easily offended. But your post brought up something I just want to mention. so sorry.

BUT- you bringing up REAL death sorta puts this in perspective. I mean comics bringing back the dead sorta makes them even LESS real then just the whole super powers and running arround in tights.

I'm just sorta tired or retcons and grumpy because of what they did in Flash this week. I think if you kill a character they should REMAIN dead. maybe then charachters won't be killed in stupid manners( dove) and brought back in stupider ones( jean gray).

We can't bring back OUR dead so comic characters bringing back their dead just makes comics a joke for everyone else. I mean it's one thing if like Superman, you planned all along to bring him back... but otherwise keep the dead- dead.

[aj110]

They could do something like: Well Jason actually did the grunt work, so he's Hush. or, "Well Tommy was the mastermind, so he's Hush." You know how these contests have loopholes out the a.s.s. I have faith that Loeb will come up with a good reason as to why Tommy wants revenge. Maybe a "Thomas Wayne was my father as well, but I never got any of the Wayne fortune. Now I know who you are and you are going to suffer like I have. I'm going to screw with every part of your life, work and personal. I'm going to make you wish you were never born." Something like that. That's what I'd do. (but then again, I'm no Jeph Loeb...maybe someday, but not yet)

[K26dp]

It's not Jason Todd. I don't know who it is, but it's not Jason Todd. That's Clayface.

The question is, who is manipulating Clayface? I think it's Tommy Elliot, and the "spy" that Bruce has failed to protect is Barbara. Somehow she has been leveraged by Tommy into helping him out. Everyone is acting out his script.

[freakazoid_x]

I think that if it's really Jason Todd the price on the back issues of the current Batman run will fall dramatically.

[freakazoid_x]

Well then where is Jason Todds body? Look at the splash where Todd is holding the knife to Robins throat. Look what's in the background, Jason Todds grave and a big hole. The body is gone.

Wait, the body is gone.

If he's been alive the whole time then why dig up the "body".

Oh thank god they're just messing with me

whew

[Spideyfan29]

Does anyone know how close the kill-Robin voting was? I mean, I ASSUME it was a landslide, but.....

[freakazoid_x]

actually I saw the numbers it was pretty close, I'll check when I go home.

[aj110]

It was actually very close. If memory serves correctly less than 2000 votes seperated the two choices. (Thank you, History Channel)

[JacinB]

5343 in favor of death, 5271 in favor of life. That would be a 72 vote difference, if my math classes taught me anything ... :)

Source: http://www.geocities.com/mbrown123/greatest_comics/batman428.html

[K26dp]

Jason Todd and Barry Allen both turn back up in comics the same week. Can Uncle Ben and Bucky be far behind? My whole world is askew!

OK, I'm better now.

[JacinB]

Actually, Bucky has already returned ... in the Ultimates he never died, and in the regular series he was cloned and kept secret by some government agency or somesuch. So, while it may not be the Bucky, a Bucky is back. :rolleyes:

[aj110]

72...2000. Those are close enough.

[boneyard]

-who is the roman
- who is hugo strange
coud nay body give me osme back gorund info and ras a gouhl
-how did he find out about the lazarus pits
- how do the lazarus pits work
- where is the penguin and the clayfaces irght now

The Roman is a Gotham crim boss who appeared in Batman Year One, The Long Halloween and Dark Victory. In the retconned Bat-universe, he was a target of Catwoman's early crimes. Later, his son turned out to be the serial killer Holiday. I thought he was killed at the end of the Long Halloween, but it's been awhile since I've read it.

Pre-Crisis, Hugo Strange was Batman's first recurring arch-enemy. A criminal mastermind who created strange devices and monsters. He was retconned into more a psychological criminal genius who was obsessed with discovering Batman's true ID and even replaced Batman for a short period (Any Bat-fan should not miss these stories by Englehart and Rogers) Post-Crisis he was retconned again into a "mad psychologist" who was obsessed with Batman. Many of these stories appear in the Legends of the Dark Knight series.

Ra's Al Ghul (pronounced "Raysh All Ghoul") is the head of the criminal organization, the demon's head. He is hundreds of years old due to repeated dunkings in the Lazarus pit. He discovered Batman's id when his daughter Talia and Robin I were kidnapped. The whole thing was a set-up to test Batman as a worthy suitor for Talia. Ra's is an eco-terrorist, he goal is to depopulate the earth enough to restore to a clean state. He has tried to do so with many times, always thwarted by Batman. Two things usually happen when Batman fights Ra's al Ghul: one) The two of them lose their shirts and sword fight and two) Ra's usually dies and ends up in the Lazarus pit...

I don't know exactly when Ra's discovered the Lazarus pits (there were several of them around the world) but they are a mix of a natural spring that is tainted by pollution and perhaps magic. They can bring a recently dead person back but the person goes temporarily insane and gains great strength. A person who is immersed in the Lazarus pit gains a longer life span as well. Ra's, Talia, Batman and Joker have all been dunked in a pit. When Bane was jilted by Talia, he travelled the world destroying Lazarus pits. I thought the last one was destroyed but it appears there is at least one more.

Penguin was thought to be recently killed in Detective, but he is alive and well, turning up to plague the Birds of Prey. Clayface (Clayface 1 aka Ultimate Clayface aka Basil Karlo) was last seen melting towards the center of the earth during No Man's Land. Clayface 2 (Matt Hagen) is long dead, being killed in Crisis. Clayface 3 and 4 (Preston Payne and Lady Clayface respectively) ran off together and had a child named Cassius. It's been a long time since we've seen either of these two IIRC.

Hope that helps.

[Clix776]

There is no reason why the Hush that we see at the end of Batman #617 can't be Two-Face, or more appropriately, Harvey Dent, since he's only got the one face there. When the Joker was awaiting trial, his lawyer presented himself to him as Two-Face, and Joker recognized his voice as Harvey. He also completely freaked/boggled at the face when Harvey removed his bandages to reveal his repaired face, because Joker killed Jason Todd.

BUT

wasn't Harvey also implicated in "The Long Halloween" only to have the villain turn out to be Joe Schmoe, Mr. Miscellaneous? That has me leaning towards the Tommy Elliot theories being batted around here.

Have a Great Day,
Gary E. Poisson

[JacinB]

I think that the theory that Harvey 'put on' Jason Todd's face is a little far-fetched for 2 reasons:
1) He had no clue that Jason Todd was Robin II, and
2) Besides appearing to the Joker with his repaired face, he's also appeared to James Gordon who recognized him as Harvey Dent and not someone else.

I'm still convinced it's Tommy Elliot, possibly working with the resurrected Jason Todd.

[Scarecrow 1.5]

plus .....Hush can only be one of these characters

bruce wayne,Joker,Nightwing,Barbra Gordon, and Alfred where the only ones who knew Jason Todd died

[JacinB]

Ra's could have found out about it. He did know who Batman was at that point, and he has always tracked news stories related to Bruce Wayne ... the death of Jason Todd was public knowledge, the death of Robin was not. Ra's could have easily made that connection.

However, I think that Bruce was the only one who knew where the body was buried ... I think he himself said that in #617.

[Scarecrow 1.5]

no in #617

heres the quote

"This place is...was a secret. We...Alfred and I had the body moved here so no one could find it"-Batman
Batman#617

Plus Nightwing and Tim+barbra where told to ....cant find the reference though...its in a past comic

[JacinB]

Problem with your theory is that, though they've done some amazing things in this story that we thought we'd never see, they aren't going to make anyone in Batman's inner circle evil. Period.

Jeph Leob got the okay from DC when he took over the writing job that anything that he wrote would 'stick' (ie: remain continuity for as long as this continuity remains).

They wouldn't turn Alfred evil, because it'd never fly with the fans. They wouldn't turn Robin, Nightwing, or Oracle evil because they've all got their own comics -- and/or team comics, two of which were just launched -- in which they are the 'good guys'.

Besides that, we know that Hush is muscular guy, as physically capable of climbing and disappearing from rooftops as Batman himself is. Alfred does not fit that description.

We know that Hush is male and can walk. Oracle's not either of those.

And we've seen both Robin and Nightwing at the same time as we've seen Hush. Thus, they're out.

So, I'm writing off all speculation about any of those four being Hush. The person wearing the Hush costume at the end of #617 is Jason Todd ... that means that he is either actually Hush himself (at which point this discussion ends), or is working with someone else to be Hush (which would still point to Tommy Elliot based on the other evidence presented in this thread).

[Scarecrow 1.5]

but why would tommy elliot be hush we saw him died in bats #613

and why would he do all these things just to get revenge on batman .....+ for the preview of bats #619 on the dc main website it says it will change batman forever .....those are the only people that would change bats forever+ Jason Todd(which i believe is really alive)

[Scarecrow 1.5]

and Ra-shal-ghoul told us that the lazerous pits were damaged about 3 months(bats #616) ago so there goes ur theory that they put tom in the pits

[JacinB]

Nah, Tommy's death was staged by he and Jason Todd. And, the Lazarus pits weren't all damaged or Bats would've never stabbed Ra's in #616 and left him to die.

[Kiryu]

Wasn't Batman told that someone he knew was using the Lazerous pit?

I haven't read the rest of the Hush series, I kinda backed away from DC. But the mystery is excellent, I have the most recent issue, and I have to say that I hope Jason Todd is alive and Hush, or that he is working for Hush. Simply because bringing Todd back to reveal him as the Two face or simply Clayface is really really lame and a waste of the re-introduction.

I've got a feeling that Jason Todd is back from the dead, and will return there at the conclusion of this ark.

[Scarecrow 1.5]

well one pit was left but still......and i do believe that is really jason...but lazerous pits can only keep people alive not bring them back from te died!

[Scarecrow 1.5]

plus on the main dc website they said only one is hush ...so what are u trying to say Jason todd is hush and Tom is the mastermind behind it all

[JacinB]

And, as I stated before, everything that Jeph Leob is doing is 'changing Batman forever'. That line on the main DC website is just a little something called 'hype'.

Batman exploring his relationship with Catwoman? Changed Batman forever.
Batman fighting Superman? Changed Batman forever.
Batman suddenly having a childhood friend we'd never heard of before showing up as a plot device in a major story arc? Changed Batman forever.
Two-Face re-becoming Harvey Dent? Changed Batman forever.
Batman snapping and nearly beating the Joker to death? Changed Batman forever.

Get it?

[JacinB]

Originally posted by Scarecrow 1.5
well one pit was left but still......and i do believe that is really jason...but lazerous pits can only keep people alive not bring them back from te died!

Then, how is that really Jason? He was dead and buried (twice).

[Scarecrow 1.5]

no but....in #619 it says that his allies and enemies will ne split into two ....that means Hush has to be some one close to the bats that brings me back to my original theory of Hush being one of these

JasonTodd
BruceWayne
Batman
Alfred
Barbra
Nightwing

[Scarecrow 1.5]

I dont know ....im jsut pullong out the facts...... I said i think thats Jason because i hope that really is him ....you know looking so coll in all!

[JacinB]

Just how would it be Bruce Wayne or Batman? Is he fighting a clone? This isn't Spider-Man, after all.

We've already written out Alfred, Barbara, and Nightwing as possibilities. That leaves Jason Todd ... whom I've already said is in on the plot, and would fit the criteria of an ally turned enemy.

But, Jason Todd is not the mastermind behind it all since he couldn't have taken his own dead body to a Lazarus pit to resurrect himself ... there has to be at least two people involved in the return of Jason Todd, and the most obvious other person would be the one who was created specifically for this story: Tommy Elliot.

[Scarecrow 1.5]

K.. i cant argue w/ that

[Clix776]

I had forgotten that Harvey Dent revealed his face to Jim Gordon. I can't even remember the issue he did it in. I may need to re-read what we've got so far so I can try and grokk this out.

Have a Great Day,
Gary E. Poisson

[Mayberry Bat]

About the Lazarus Pit. In the Tower of Babel JLA story where Ras takes Batman's parent's bodies, he puts them over an open Lazarus Pit. He says something to the affect that he wonders if the pit could bring someone like Batman's parents back to life.(being dead for so long a time) So it seems like even Ras isn't sure about how deep the powers of the Lazarus Pits are.

[flaxwless]

My first inclination for nwo is it's Jason Todd working with Tommy Elliot.

HOWEVER I would not honestly rule out if Hush/The MAtsermind behind Hush is someone dear to Bruce Wayne/Batman?

You know why? All in the writing.

Through the past couple of issues one of the reoccuring themes is that even though Batman claims to be so much of a loner he has so many people connected to him. They wouldn't be writing that in if it wasn't a prevelant part of the story.

So I wouldn't be suprised if the Mastermind behind Hush is Barbra Gordon. Maybe she's blaming Batman for her being in a wheelchair.

Also as for Tommy Elliots motive. Quite simple really.... he'll blame Bruce for not being there and especially "failing" to save his dad. In one of teh past issues when Tommy's dad was in the hosiptal being operated on by Burce's dad, Bruce promised Tommy his dad would save his. So if someone is psycho enough that would be enough reason for Tommy Elliot to be Hush.


Just some thoughts. I'm gonna go re-read the story.

[Kiryu]

Hey, I've got the Hush issue. But does anyone know if there is a picture of the new Robin online? I love the design and want it as my wallpaper!

[freakazoid_x]

Bite your tongue Kiryu. Bite it hard. You do not mean the horror you say. Trust me, it's like when you are a kid and accidentally say something dirty and everyone starts laughing and you don't know what's so funny so you repeat yourself.

Jason Todd in any form is not cool, trust us. If you want an example read the most recent Gotham knights and tell me you do not want to just kick this kid in the nads.

[Kiryu]

Oh, he's a little brat alright. And he deserved the crowbar. But that doesn't change the fact that I like his new outfit.

[Gator]

Originally posted by DCBebop
My money is on Penguin. Apparently he "died" a few months ago (though it wouldn't be the first time Cobblepott has faked his death). He is a master manipulator. Batman has said many times the Penguin is the most intelligent of his villains (even to the one point of saying The Penguin was even smarter than himself). Jeph Loeb is big fan of the character. Penguin also has the money and resources to pull this whole scam off. I think this whole story may have been an elaborate set-up by Loeb and Lee to make us realize the Penguin is more than a joke. He has been one of Batman's main antagonists for years and years, and this story will show us why that is...

But that's just my theory... I could be wrong...

I think you're right! This is more than just a Batman conspiracy, it's a WizKids conspiracy. This whole "Hush" storyline was created to add value to the 10 or 12 Penguins I've collected building my CJ collection. Who knew the conspiracy could reach so far!

[bluebeetle]

could the lazarus pit possible heal barbras wounds and enable her to walk again?

[Djangomank2k]

I hope not. Thats one of the Jokers finest moments. If only he'd finished the job on huntress...

[DCFan#1]

Is anyone as mad as I am about this? If he is "really" alive, not some dumb imposter or whatever, then I'll never forgive Loeb and the fellas at AOL/Time Warner. I mean, seriously, HE'S DEAD! That was a big deal when he died. I was in high school at the time, reading Batman like it was the bible itself. And now they are telling me Todd is alive. No way. Not for a second. I saw him die and so did the rest of the world.

I'm begging Loeb, please do not take "Death in the Family" away from me and the rest of the millions of DC fans out there. I cling to so little in comics because of flip flops like this, but Todd's death is one I thought they would leave alone. That was a monumental time for DC comics. Nothing like that had EVER happened before, ever. By bringing Todd back now, you destroy one of the best stories in Batman history.

Bucky can stay dead, why not Jason!

Then again, in two issues, we'll all see. I could be completely wrong here. I guess we'll find out. I have loved the story, up until the last page of the last issue, though.

Rich

[Ro-gan]

DCFan,

I have to agree with you. I remember reading the comics when they first came out with Joker killing Jason. I was in college at the time and I remember the story shocking the monkey bajeebas out of me. Whatever they are.

I think that shock value and the whole point that the "fans" voted Jason dead should be the reason to leave him DEAD. D-E-A-D!

On another point:

Everyone seems to think a Mind Controller is Hush. Who says that Hush is using MC? He/she can just be good at manipulation or just using the ole "Jedi Mind Trick."

[DCFan#1]

Ro_gan, I hope you are right. I hope this is all just some weird mind control thing.

I don't even necessarily agree with Bruce telling Selina that he's Batman either. Let's hope that's explained away, or a part of the whole mind control thing.

Rich

[msdiener]

I've read the trade paperback of the first five issues, but haven't read the rest of the arc yet, and I do not have a full knowledge of all of Batman's history. Still, I have a few comments.

Why couldn't Barbara Gordon be involved? First, Bats didn't protect her from the Joker, putting her in a wheelchair. Second, Bats knows about the Lazarus pits, but never took Barbara to one to heal her (wouldn't this work?). I think she might be ticked off enough to take him on, especially as this could have been brewing in her for years now. She certainly knows enough about Batman and his villains to pull this off.

If Jason Todd is Hush, can you think of a more hated Batman villain for years to come? Everyone hated him when he was good; now they can really hate him as a villain. If it is him, I hope he lives a good long time so he can have a lifetime of beatings to look forward to.

I would love it if Alfred was the one using the Lazarus pit to become a little younger. He must be as old as dirt at this point, and could probably use a little of the super Geritol.

The problem of who Hush is really becomes one of motive and opportunity. Tommy Elliott wants Bruce to pay for Bruce's father not saving Tommy's dad. Boy that sounds weak for something this big. This whole "something happened to me as a kid that I can never get over" is a bit tired, even if it is Batman's driving motivation. Jason Todd shouldn't really have any great motivation to take Batman down, since he was the idiot who tried to take on the Joker himself. Alfred, unless he just wants to prove that he was always the man behind the hero, doesn't have much of a motivation. Barbara, however, has a lot to be bitter about. And all of Batman's villains have motives, but how many of them could really pull this off? The Penguin's short fat body just doesn't fit what we have seen of Hush; same for Killer Croc. Boy, I sure would like to see the Riddler return as a new improved master criminal, especially if it is "all a game."

You have to love stories of this type that put all of Batman's rogues gallery into play. The other key to the whole mystery is that whoever Hush is, he knows Batman's villains as well as or better than he knows Batman.

What's up with the DC "Who Is Hush?" contest list. The list includes both Batman and Bruce Wayne and Harvey Dent and Two-Face.

I think that this storyline will be remembered in the same lofty group as The Dark Knight Returns and The Long Halloween. It needs the ultimate payoff, however, and a new character created for the series like Tommy doesn't really fit the bill for a great villain.

Let's just hope the Bruce isn't still lying on an operating table with Tommy's fingers in his brain and that he hasn't been hallucinating this whole time due to permanent brain damage. . . .

[sluggo]

I just finished reading Batman 617 and I feel like I'm in a time warp back to marvel 1995.

I really, really hope they don't do some stupid cloning or "I was never really dead" storyline. So far Hush has been a good story line (though disapointing in the same way Ultimate War was disapointing) but if the end is a clong or coming back to life thing I will be very disapointed.

On the plus side Todds costume looks very cool.

[KaiserSelroc]

You have a point there. When Batman got his back broken, it wasn't long before he got himself healed up back to fighting shape. Why doesn't he help Barbara in the same way?

[four_winds]

Maybe Harvey Dent had plastic surgeory to look like Jason Todd.

[sluggo]

I hope its something like that four_winds.

Me and a friend talked about the Batman getting his back broken storyline a couple weeks ago. I really hate it when comic companies advertise a big new change to one of the characters (death of superman etc...) and then change it back a month later. If they are going to make a change (big or small) they should stick to it. I think it would have really brought both characters full circle of #### Grayson took over as Batman and Bruce took on a "behind the scenes" role (and stuck to it).

[Heretic]

I hope it is something like two face w/ plastic Surgery or someone hypnotised to think they are Todd. If it turns out to be todd, I am cancelling my subscription to Batman and will never buy another new batman book. Todd is dead! As dead as dead can be. He was beat nearly to death, blown up, and died in the arms of a master detective who has seen and knows dead! Not to mention the fact that the fans voted to kill him, so bringing him back would be a real slap in the face for the readers. We will see, I suppose.

[Heretic]

Yeah, what I said!!

[JLovegrove]

If it was the Scarecrow's toxins, who konked out Robin?? Bats' imagination?? Somehow, I figured who the mystery man in the bandages was last issue. Not sure what clue it was that gave it away.

Cool issue.... outstanding artwork from Lee... Shocker story... This is what comix are all about.

Wanted Bats Heroclix:
Scarecrow
Batgirl (Barbara Gordon) (U)
Two-Face
Mr. Freeze
Ras Al Gul (U)
Talia
Killer Croc
#### Grayson Robin (U)
Oracle (U)


:cool:

[JLovegrove]

If it was the Scarecrow's toxins, who konked out Robin?? Bats' imagination?? Somehow, I figured who the mystery man in the bandages was last issue. Not sure what clue it was that gave it away.

Cool issue.... outstanding artwork from Lee... Shocker story... This is what comix are all about.

Wanted Bats Heroclix:
Scarecrow
Batgirl (Barbara Gordon) (U)
Two-Face
Mr. Freeze
Ras Al Gul (U)
Talia
Killer Croc
#### Grayson Robin (U)
Oracle (U)


:cool:

[JLovegrove]

If it was the Scarecrow's toxins, who konked out Robin?? Bats' imagination?? Somehow, I figured who the mystery man in the bandages was last issue. Not sure what clue it was that gave it away.

Cool issue.... outstanding artwork from Lee... Shocker story... This is what comix are all about.

Wanted Bats Heroclix:
Scarecrow
Batgirl (Barbara Gordon) (U)
Two-Face
Mr. Freeze
Ras Al Gul (U)
Talia
Killer Croc
#### Grayson Robin (U)
Oracle (U)


:cool:

[bluebeetle]

not once, not twice, but thrice

[Captain_Comet]

Jason Todd is a ruse. Someone went through the trouble to
bring him back as some absurd distraction to Batman. Its
not a horrific idea. I'm sure he hasn't been secretly alive for years or anything. I would also LOVE it if someone close to
Batman betrayed him (Barbra), but DC would never have the
brass for it. I'm sure when all is said and done it will be
Tommy (MOST LIKELY), Harvey, or the Riddler.

[Kiryu]

This is the only place I can think of to ask, but whatever happened to the whole "Bane is Bruce Wayne's brother" deal?

[Grinner]

Originally posted by sluggo
I think it would have really brought both characters full circle of #### Grayson took over as Batman and Bruce took on a "behind the scenes" role (and stuck to it).

I have to disagree on this point. Our dear Mr. Grayson becoming Batman would be a step backwards for him. That's the same reason that one of my biggest problems with Kingdom Come was him becoming a Batman-clone and going back to the Robin name.

Richard Grayson has grown more since he became Nightwing than in most, if not all, of his tenure as Robin. He's the only one of the old sidekicks who has truly stepped out of his mentors shadow to become his own hero and have the universal respect as such.

Turning him into "Batman Beyond" would take away from his character. Bruce himself told Nightwing that he was better than Batman - not "you're a better fighter" or "you're a better detective" but "you're a better hero and person." Richard is what Bruce should be and Nightwing is what Batman should be - they are sides of the same person. Neither is an act, neither is a mask. Nightwing has friends and Richard has friends. Batman has allies and Bruce has associates.

I can't comment on the most recent Batman to keep completely on topic because I haven't read it yet, but I can comment on Jason Todd. I was in college when the whole 'vote him dead' thing came about. I thought it was kind of cheap, and to this day I think that the monument to Jason in Dark Knight Returns had more to do with Jason being voted dead than the fact that he was an annoying little twit did. Although he certainly was an annoying little twit and we did get Tim Drake out of it. I do hope that Jason is dead, though.

[Spideyfan29]

Couple points I'd like to make about "Jason Todd" (IF that is his real name):
1. Doesn't he seem a little old? I looked in my wizard price guide thingy and saw that Tim took over as Robin EXACTLY 30 issues after Jason died (and we know how much they try to downplay the passage of time to avoid a 60 year old batman). Wasn't Tim about the same age a Jason when he was killed? If so, he shouldn't look so much older than Tim.

2. If it is Jason, rest assured guys. Loeb will find a way to kill him during his climactic battle with Batman. YOU GET TO SEE HIM DIE ALL OVER AGAIN!

That's all I got.

[Kiryu]

Spideyfan I was JUST gonna post that.

If it is indeed Jason Todd, he would have had to have been put in a pit YEARS ago. He looks about Nightwing's age in 617.

It's probably someone posing as Jason, sadly. I don't see them wasting a costume design on a hallucination, but it is probable, considering what Scarecrow said. And if it really is Jason, someone else has been pulling the strings. I can't even think up a decent motivation for Jason to want to kill Batman.

[rgsniper1]

They did test on bane and found out that he wasn't related.
Hope that helps.

[Masada]

BARBARA GORDON IS NOT BETRAYING BATMAN.

It's not in her nature. She's one of the finest people in the DCU.

Why didn't Bruce put her in the Lazarus pit to heal her? Because if you're not of the Ra's Al Ghul bloodline and you get dunked, you go permanently crazy. Ra's even goes temporarily crazy. Talia is the only one to use it with no ill effects.

[Batman1983]

Hence why someone could convince Jason that he should kill Batman.... Tommy most likely, but after Batman refering to the Riddler as a Joke I think it would be histerical if he was indeed behind it....

[Kiryu]

You guys heard anything about this alternate end page to 617 that was floating around?

[Batman1983]

no

[sluggo]

"Richard Grayson has grown more since he became Nightwing than in most, if not all, of his tenure as Robin"

Yes he has, but if DC did a story where Bruce couldn't be Batman anymore they should have stuck to it and made it mean something. Stories were characters die and come back or get hurt and heal are stupid and ruin the comics. They take the drama out of the books. Readers know if something important happens it won't stick and that characters won't change. I think thats one thing that marvel is doing very well these days - if someone dies they are dead, if a character goes through a change it sticks.

Having #### take over as the new Batman could bring him full circle, he was the side-kick, then he went out on his own and now hes taken over the Batman role. If they don't want this to happen then they shouldn't cripple Batman and have #### take over in the first place, if they do that then they should stick with it.

[Batman1983]

Tim should eventually take on the Batman Mantle (thats kind of what he wants) & Nightwing is his own dern hero.

[Golden_Avenger]

DC would not bring Todd back as DC would be "####ping" on all of us whom voted to kill him. That character has the white hair stripe as one whom has been through the pit would have, but is not Todd. Deffinitely a Scarecrow hallucination (ala the Animated Batman Story), a side effect of the head surgey, or someone else aready mentioned (riddler, tommy, etc).

[Spideyfan29]

Kiryu,
It seems like you have heard something about this alternate ending. Care to fill us in?

[berniealonge]

I'm sorry, but if I was Jason Todd I would not have told Gordon to go stop bats from killing the Joker. What better revenge could Jason get than turning Batman into a killer. Not only that, but Batman would be killing the person who killed Jason in the first place. So, I don't know who Hush is, but it's poor writing if it turns out to be Jason.
Think about it, if someone killed you (brutally) and somehow you came back from the dead, what would your first order of business be? Revenge on your killer.

[JacinB]

It is Jason Todd. There is no one else it could possibly be. Here's why:

1) It's not Harvey Dent. Harvey had previously been friends with both James Gordon and Bruce Wayne. He revealed himself minus his 'second face' to James Gordon who recognized him immediately as Harvey. Bruce/Batman would have also immediately recognized the difference between Harvey Dent and Jason Todd.

2) It's not Barbara Gordon. She's a woman and she can't walk. This 'apparition' is cleary a man and is walking. Duh. This is also why it's not Alfred ... we've seen how Jim Lee draws Alfred (like everyone else draws him: a feeble old butler), and unless he's hopped up on some of Bane's Venom, there's no possible way that Alfred's appearance could change that much.

3) It's not a hallucination. If it is, it's a hallucination that has managed to not only appear in this issue before Batman was 'poisoned' by the Scarecrow, but has also grabbed Tim Drake by the throat and hauled him off of one rooftop onto another. If that's a hallucination, it's a pretty impressive one. If you go back to the first issues, he's also been following Batman around since before the whole brain surgery thing, so that's out.

Thus, it is Jason Todd. However, Jason Todd's strings are being pulled by Tommy Elliot.

And those of you moaning about how DC's pissing on you for your votes 15 or so years ago, get over it. There were only 5343 of you that voted for Todd to die in the first place, and that was only 72 more than voted for him to live, and DC only charged $.50 for the call so you guys could have easily 'stuffed the ballot box' ... :rolleyes:

[TyeDyeSamurai]

Originally posted by JacinB

3) It's not a hallucination. If it is, it's a hallucination that has managed to not only appear in this issue before Batman was 'poisoned' by the Scarecrow, but has also grabbed Tim Drake by the throat and hauled him off of one rooftop onto another. If that's a hallucination, it's a pretty impressive one. If you go back to the first issues, he's also been following Batman around since before the whole brain surgery thing, so that's out.


That's interesting to note... while proving it's not a hallucination, you have shown a good reason why it just might be. Who knows what exactly this 'brain surgery' has done. Maybe Scarecrow's toxin won't affect Batman because he's already under simliar effects.
Ever since, maybe he's been paraniod, imagining some shadowy figure trailing him. Then, it turns out to be his worst nightmare: Jason Todd lives, and he's taking revenge on the 'imposter' Robin meant to replace him after his death.

Of course I haven't read a single issue of Hush yet, so it's all good. :cheeky:

Unless, by before you mean looong before.
Then I have no clue. :cheeky:

[Golden_Avenger]

Originally posted by berniealonge
I'm sorry, but if I was Jason Todd I would not have told Gordon to go stop bats from killing the Joker. What better revenge could Jason get than turning Batman into a killer. Not only that, but Batman would be killing the person who killed Jason in the first place. So, I don't know who Hush is, but it's poor writing if it turns out to be Jason.
Think about it, if someone killed you (brutally) and somehow you came back from the dead, what would your first order of business be? Revenge on your killer.

There are at least two Hush villians. The "Robin" one and the "two face" one. No way could someone go from bald to full head of hair in the span of a couple of issues.

[berniealonge]

but the contest on dccomics.com specifically says "Pick One", not two.

[berniealonge]

By the way, I picked Lex for the contest. I don't know why, other than Lex has had a serious mad-on for bats lately

[TyeDyeSamurai]

It's Maggie Simpson

[freakazoid_x]

plus the 1-900 charge.

They charged 50 cents for the vote plus a 1-900 charge.

Thanks so much for trying to make yourself seem superior on my behalf that was so nice of you.

Do your research.

I re-read "A Death in the Family." It made me happy to see the little birdb**** get beat down.

[TyeDyeSamurai]

What year did the death happen? I can't remember between '83-'86.
What if it's 20 years since that fateful comic?
:noid: :noid: :noid: :noid:

[Darth Sabre]

Originally posted by TyeDyeSamurai
What year did the death happen? I can't remember between '83-'86.
What if it's 20 years since that fateful comic?
:noid: :noid: :noid: :noid:

1988 IIRC

[Starman973]

I'll break down the clayfaces for those who don't know them
Orginal Clayface was an actor who used specail mud mask to hide his face as he commited crimes.
Clayface II -Died durring crisis
Clayface III -the heroclix one a pretty boy who getws scared and takes some risky plastic surgy that goes horibly wrong
Clayface IV- A female created By Cobra with powers similar to the clayface from the cartoon.
Ultimate Clayface- The orginal steals samples form the other three and combines them to become this freak, with powers of all of them. he melts his way through the crust of the earth only to reserface durring No Man's land and might have been the secret cause to the earthquake that wreaked Gotham in the first place.
Baby Clayface, Son of Clayfaces III & IV able to split himself into mulitple forms has mostly his mother's powers.

[berniealonge]

You know why else I can't believe it's Jason Todd? Doesn't this smack a bit too much like Frank Miller's DK2 story? You know, POed Robin comes back to harrass his mentor?

I just expect so much more originality out of this writer, that I can't believe he'd use such a cliche.

[JacinB]

Originally posted by freakazoid_x
plus the 1-900 charge.

They charged 50 cents for the vote plus a 1-900 charge.

Thanks so much for trying to make yourself seem superior on my behalf that was so nice of you.

Do your research.

See, that's the thing. Those 1-900 numbers? They get to set their rates ... it's not just one flat fee for dialing the number. They have variable rates. They can charge anything they want to, either per minute or as a flat fee (ie: no matter how long you stay on the line, it costs you the same amount just for calling).

Just because the rest of the 1-900 calls you makes costs $2.99 a minute, that doesn't mean that every 1-900 call costs that much.

The call to DC to vote for Jason Todd to die cost exactly $.50, unless you voted multiple times.

Maybe you should do your research. :)

[malchyor]

ok ok ok...


been thinking over the weekend.

who wouldn't batman fight? he's fought nightwing. he'd fight gordon if he had to. he'd beat the hell out of robin to teach him a lesson. no reason he wouldn't beat the living #### out of jason todd if jason had robin's life in his hands. i can't think of a single person he wouldn't fight, except oracle, but then it'd only because a girl in a wheel chair wouldn't put up much of a fight (sorry, no offense to all you wheel-chair bound out there).

but there are a bunch of things that are meant to lead us astray.

1. tommy comes back to town just in time.
2. jason todd returns
3. the guy is bald and claims he's 2face
4. hush wears a jacket like gordon
5. ra's is back, pointing to the lazareth pits

straight forward, what has happened in hush? all of batman's enemies, in fact his whole past, is being drawn out in front of him. he's being laid bare. they are being used to tell batman he's failed. not only does hush know who they are and how to use them (so that they don't notice or seem to care...), but he knows who batman is, that todd's dead (and where he's buried), and exactly how to tell bat's he's failed (it's one thing to tell someone...and another to show him).

who would do that? who's smart enough to pull it off?

the top of my list now is that hugo strange dude, but having never read anything about him, it's tough to judge. i'm still hoping it's thomas wayne though...

[Spideyfan29]

What is the consensus here? Do we believe that the bandage guy with the coin watching the Bats-Joker fight, AND the guy who broke into the Commish's house is Harvey Dent? (I do, for the record) I think its kind of odd that he and Jason would make uniforms for their own little club. I had been making fun of the purple turtle-neck he had on before we saw it was part of a new costume. I then proceeded to make fun of the costume. I don't know...there is more to this than we've figured out.

[JacinB]

It's 10 issues into the 12 issue arc. I seriously doubt that the main villian of the story is going to be someone that we haven't seen up to this point.

There's no point to a detective story where you don't get the clues to lead you to the proper villian until the final scene where the true villian is revealed. They wrote this for us to be able to 'play along at home' ... thus, I'm betting that it'll be someone we've seen in this story so far.

My money is on Tommy Elliot. He was created specifically for this story, as was this mystery villian. And, what better way to divert all suspicion from yourself than to appear to die at the Joker's hands, when even the Joker himself said that he didn't pull the trigger on Tommy?

Keep in mind, we never saw Tommy's body after the fight. We never saw a funeral for him. If there's one thing I've learned from my wife's soap opera habit, it's that if you don't see a body the person is coming back before the end of the story arc.

[Batman1983]

What face is shown at the end of Batman#609? A horribly scared & Spawn-esque face.... Clayface? A restabalizing Jason (just out of the pit so his skin isn't all there yet)? Spawn? lol

I can't predict because have no idea who Hugo Strange is!

[Mayberry Bat]

Jacin B, we did see a funeral...in the next issue. True we didn't see the body at the funeral. And I'm by no means disagreeing with you. All the theory's I've read seem to point to Tommy. But there has to be a deeper motive than just Thomas Wayne not saving Tommy's dad.

And I'll say it again, I wasn't too thrilled at the beginning of this story, but I must admit it's drawn me in like very few comics have.

And for my $.02, if Jason is back and written well, I've got no problem with it. If it's only a plot device for this story, then it's cheap. What would be a bigger failure for Batman to live with? A fallen soldier in the line of duty or a soldier who switches sides?

For some reason, I still think it could be Alfred. Or at least Alfred could be the spy. Just my gut instinct. I mean Kingdom Come started with a Mad magazine spoof (Superduperman vs. Captain Marvelous). Why couldn't this be a butler did it story? And I keep falling back to the tagline in the back of one of the comics about the person Batman couldn't fight. Bats would be the holy hell out of Jason, especially if he's holding Tim hostage. Alfred and Thomas Wayne are the only two that come to mind. But I've no proof, mind you.

I'm going on memory here, too. If I'm not mistaken Alfred used to be an actor before becoming a butler. He was the one that taught Bruce how to use make-up for disguises. And taught him how to change his voice for accents and to sound like other people.

And then again I could just be talking out of my butt since I'm pretty bored here at work.

[berniealonge]

I can't imagine a motive for Alfred, especially since Bruce just saved his life in Gotham Knights, and in the latest Gotham Knights Alfred is not exactly up and about like he used to be. I also think GK purposely ran a "Jason Todd" issue, just so to remind people what a jerk Jason was when he was Robin. I have no doubt that "Batman" and "Gotham Knights" know what the other series is doing. Actually, I'm starting to like my Lex theory more and more. The way Bruce saved Alfred was by stealing some kind of medicine from Lex. In "Batman" he kidnaps Ra's daughter from Lex's jet. And if I remember right, Lex was not too happy with Gotham getting back on it's feet after no-mans-land. Lex had access to Ra's daughter, and therefore all of Bruce's secrets and could've been gained AND knowledge of the Lazerus pits. We're led to beleive that she didn't tell Lex anything, but who knows. Plus Lex knew where to send Lady Shiva to try to retreive Talia. I only ready thru this story once, so if I'm sketchy on details, feel free to correct me.

[scowlingone]

Originally posted by JacinB
Keep in mind, we never saw Tommy's body after the fight. We never saw a funeral for him.

We did see the funeral. "O Captain, My Captain", remember?

That said, I also think it's Elliott. He had Bruce on the operating table and was doing brain surgery. Maybe he implanted something; this would jibe with Scarecrow's comment that Batman was already under the influence.

[KidInTheHelmet]

All in all I've loved this arc. I don't think we wont solidly know who did this until the final issue.

As for who did it, thats tough.

Bruce stated in this issue that only he and Alfred knew where the body had been moved to, and it's safe to rule out Batman. So lets say that "the butler did it". What proof do we have? 1) He knew where the body was. 2)In #616, Batman returns from resucing Talia, Batman rushes looking around looking for Alfred thinking him to be a victim. Batman finds Alf and says,

"Only Ra's would have the capability to get into the cave undetected. But if I'm reading his message correctly...why come all this way--only to retreat back to his homeland?". Alfred replies, "Perhaps he wishes to draw you back there with him...".

We all know Alfred has free access to the cave. We also learn in this issue from Ra's himself that the remaining Lazarus Pits were defiled several months prior. So Alfred would have to retrieve Jasons corpse (which can we honestly see him doing this?), and seek out the pits halfway across the globe.

Tommy Elliot is the next big suspect. He has the motive but does he have the means? Everything thats happening started taking place prior to Tommys operating on Bruce. So in order for it to be him he would have to have set everything up previously, and KNOW that Bruce would summon for him when in need of medical attention. That kinda iffy itself and Tommy would have to know Bruce is Batman before the operation. That alone takes him off my list.

[Heretic]

Originally posted by Masada
BARBARA GORDON IS NOT BETRAYING BATMAN.

It's not in her nature. She's one of the finest people in the DCU.

Why didn't Bruce put her in the Lazarus pit to heal her? Because if you're not of the Ra's Al Ghul bloodline and you get dunked, you go permanently crazy. Ra's even goes temporarily crazy. Talia is the only one to use it with no ill effects. Black Canary went into the pit and I believe she is fine now, although she did loose it for awhile.

[absalom_daak]

Sorry about the length of this but it just kinda grew.

Anyway I re-read all the issues of Hush so far and the following are observations

#608
1 - It all starts with a kidnap - and there’s a direct link to Lex Luthor
2 - When Batman is chasing Catwoman over the rooftops, between them is a building with the word ‘Robin’ on it.
3 - Batman’s line is cut in exactly the same manner that a Batarang would cut. The sound effect employed is VZIP.

#609
1 - After the Trenchcoat guy gets the money from Ivy he disappears in a very Batman-like manner
2 - Bruce & Tommy play wargames - the most important piece is described as the spy, someone who knows all of your opponents secrets
3 - Bruce’s face is cut from the newspaper by a blade which resembles a Batarang. The hole where his face was is replaced by the image of Trenchcoat man - this suggests that he is intending to replace Batman - this could indicate Jason or possibly Hugo Strange

#610
1 - Croc has a trenchcoat on - where did he get it? He’s been in government custody and didn’t have it before he was captured.
2 - Amanda Waller is involved - she doesn’t like Bats and has a direct connection to Lex
3 - Thomas hints to Alfred that he knows Bruce is Batman - “Dangerous game”
4 -
4 - Batmobile tyre is shot out by some kind of laser. This has to have been done by someone who knows a lot about the Batmobile (Jason) or presidential armoured car tyres (Lex)
5 - Croc has recently been mutated by somebody and Waller’s team knew surprisingly well how to restrain and capture him
6 - Trenchcoat guy watching the fight is standing on a rooftop next to a sign saying ‘Robins’

#611
1 - Tommy to Bruce ‘You’re not Superman’ - interesting
2 - Tommy to Bruce - ‘I took a bone CHIP out of your head’ - the word ‘chip’ is interestingly suggestive
3 - Aztec Gilia needs a special chemical only available from Lexcorp
4 - Selina’s speech about being mind-controlled by Ivy and doing things that she would have been prone to do is interestingly suggestive - this is probably foreshadowing - consider Batman’s reactions with both Catwoman and the Joker
5 - VZIP is the sound effect used when Bats cuts Ivy’s vine with his Batarang. This is exactly the same as the sound effect when his line was cut by trenchcoat man back in 608.

#612
1 - Synthetic K - the obvious source for this would be Lex
2 - Batman fights Superman in Lexcorp tunnels - suggesting they are both playing on Lex’s board

#613
1 - Both cops and criminals are being instructed to stay silent - whoever is in charge has contacts and muscle on both sides of the law
2 - Tommy to Bruce and Selina - “Hush, it’s starting. I don’t want to have to separate you.” - as well as mentioning Hush, this also suggests that he knows about the relationship between the two of them.
3 - How did Harley know that Tommy was wearing the Jade Pendant? It was on a chain under his shirt which she had to undo to even see. The only conclusion is that Tommy was the target.
4 - Harley’s mention of “script” suggests that this she is just playing a part written by someone else.
5 - However when Bats picks up Selina’s ear-ring why doesn’t he see the pendant?

#614
1 - Two-face’s coin. This suggests that Trenchcoat man is Two-face. The bandages are suggestive of Dark Knight Returns however
a - This may not be the same trenchcoat man from earlier (remember Croc was dressed up in one by somebody)
b - Two-face killed Jason Todd’s father (post-crisis) so there is a link between these two
c - If Two-Face has become Harvey then he no longer needs the coin - if Jason has become an enemy of Batman then he might have acquired the coin as some form of poetic justice

#615
1 - The phrase ‘a smoking gun’ is a phrase used by a number of US presidents
2 - The conspiracy “reaches as high as Superman and as low as the Joker” - this is big glowing pointer to Lex
3 - Harvey appears in a trenchcoat. Joker recognises him. He acts like Harvey and Joker treats him as such. If we assume he is then he’s had expensive plastic surgery, psychiatry and had his previous convictions quashed - this points to someone with a lot of money and political clout

#616
1 - Talia to Bats - “Your move beloved” - she knows a game is being played
2 - Lex doesn’t seem overly concerned, more like amused, even though he could use this info to nail Bats to the wall. He has a move planned but has decided “Not... yet.”
3 - Gordon recognises Harvey. This adds more weight to the theory that it really is Harvey.
4 - Harvey’s had his license reinstated - again major political clout involved
5 - Someone got hold of Gordon’s gun and shot Elliott with it - again this indicates someone with major connections
6 - However Bat’s report on Tommy says that the bullet was from a 9mm Glock. Harvey says it was Gordon’s service revolver. However a Glock is an automatic. Was Bats wrong? Is Harvey lying? Or did the writer make a Boo-Boo?
7 - Harvey tells Gordon that they are both pieces in a game
8 - Ras hints to Bats that someone in his life has come back from the dead
9 - The Lazarus pit was ‘defiled’ months ago - who would have the resources to find a pit, get past Ghul’s security, use the pit and then get the newly revived away to where they can recover
10 - Talia to herself - “Games”

#617
1 - The Huntress took money from someone who was ‘clean’. He was then murdered. This can only be Tommy.
2 - Scarecrow is surprised that Bats isn’t affected by his gas and suggests it is because he is already being controlled.
3 - Trenchcoat guy unmasks and appears as Jason Todd. His manner, particularly with Tim ‘pretender’ etc all suggests that this is really him. Furthermore he has the Lazarus Pit white streak in his hair.

Conclusions
1 - Jason is real and back from the dead - he’s the guy who’s been physically attacking Bats. He cut the Bat-line.
2 - Tommy is involved - he probably gave money to the Huntress - he performed brain surgery on Bruce and has been dropping hints that something has been going on - he was then mysteriously offed by someone who knew how to manipulate him (steal the pendant)
3 - Bruce may have be under an extremely subtle mind-control which makes him willing to do things that he might normally stop himself from doing - Catwoman, Joker. The only time someone was able to mess around in his head was when he was on the operating table
4 - Someone is in charge of all these pieces and orchestrating them against Bats. Jason did not get up and crawl to a Lazarus pit. Harvey did not get plastic surgery and his license renewed by himself. Croc did not mutate himself. Poison Ivy didn’t just find some synthetic Kryptonite. Whoever is in charge of this has an incredible amount of influence over cops and criminals and from Superman to the Joker - there is only one candidate - Lex Luthor.

If so the situation is extremely similar to what happened in ‘JLA - The Rock of Ages’. Then it was Bats and the JLA versus Lex and the Injustice League. This time it’s Lex with the power of the president, using all of Bruce’s enemies and even some of his friends against him. Only this time it’s Lex who knows what’s going on and Bruce is playing catch-up.

Motive - Why would Lex do this? Because he can - and because Bruce is more of an intellectual challenge than Clark. He owes Bats - not least for the ‘Rock of Ages’ debacle. He’s also not going to be Prez forever. At the very least he’s got Bruce’s identity now. He’s also pretty-much untouchable - there is practically no way that Bats can go after Lex and survive.

Of course Bats could just wake up in the shower...

[Mayberry Bat]

absalom_daak

Very well done. What's so interesting is that I was doing the exact same thing you did, by listing clues in each chapter, last night. And I'm basically coming to the same conclusion. That it's either Lex, Ra's, Talia, or Batman himself. They seem to be the only ones with enough money, intelligence, and contacts/resources to pull it off. Out of the possibilities on the DC website that takes Talia & Ra's out of the running.

So is Lex still messing with Batman? When did he find out about Batman's ID?

Or is Batman doing this to himself, like some others have hinted to?

I was in the Tommy being Hush until rereading last night. I think he's a red herring.

[bizzaro]

Originally posted by berniealonge
You know why else I can't believe it's Jason Todd? Doesn't this smack a bit too much like Frank Miller's DK2 story? You know, POed Robin comes back to harrass his mentor?

I just expect so much more originality out of this writer, that I can't believe he'd use such a cliche.

Hush has been a pretty well written story with twists and turns.

DK2 sucked so badly that it ruptured the very fabric of the universe. Very very disappointing followup to DK.

[scowlingone]

Absalom, very good analysis.

I'm not so sure that Jason Todd is alive, though. In the most recent issue, Huntress saw Selina as if she was in Huntress' old costume. I think this indicates that Batman's under a similar influence.

I think the Jason Todd character is Hugo Strange. Strange has posed as Batman before, knows many of Bats' moves, and also knows Batman's secret identity. And he's been dead, too, which brings in the connection with the Lazarus Pit.

That said, I think strange is working with Luthor. Strange has the knowledge; Luthor has the connections and the power.

[bizzaro]

Very interesting absalom_daak.

I like the idea of Hush being Luthor. He has the resources and intelligence to do what has transpired so far. The only thing I don't think he'd know is the location of Jason's grave.

I did read recently that the first arc of the upcoming Batman/Superman series deals with them trying to take down Luthor and get him ousted from the White House. It'd be a nice tie-in if Luthor's toying with Batman's life was a motivation for the Dark Knight to come after Luthor.

Tommy being Hush seems too obvious to be true ... Loeb likes to use misdirection.

[sluggo]

The only thing is at the start of Hush Loeb said that he would be introducing a NEW batman villian and Lex isn't a new villian.

[CandySuxxx]

ppl please! its the MadHatter!

[Batman1983]

Originally posted by bizzaro
Hush has been a pretty well written story with twists and turns.

DK2 sucked so badly that it ruptured the very fabric of the universe. Very very disappointing followup to DK.

I think he wrote a carppy follow up to DK on purpose as a way of getting back at DC... Hyped it to heaven, then comes across as carp... DC pays him for it, over produces it, ends up screwed. Oh course he'd have to hate them enough to risk his reputation.

[msdiener]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone have a theory about how it could possibly be Bruce Wayne or Batman? They are both on DC's list of potential candidates. I'm just wondering if anyone can think of a possible scenario where this could be the case and it wouldn't leave the entire story as some lame dream sequence or hallucination.

[K'un L'un Kid]

Tommy Elliot seems like the most likely suspect, likewise seeming the most unlikely. True, he was a character created specifically for this arc, but add to that the fact that he was the -only- new character introduced in the arc and he seems like too convenient a suspect. Anyone who read Loeb's other Batman stories would immediately tag him as being Suspect Numero Uno as far as the true identity of Hush. The "Whodunit" factor is immediately diminished, and the story becomes more of a "Howdunit", resulting in a less than stellar climax to an otherwise sterling story.

I think that the person behind "Hush" has deep, deep pockets and access to what was needed to pull all of this off. Luthor has the pockets and the power to manipulate all of the pieces into place. He has Talia there to dish the 411 on Bats/Bruce -and- the location of the Lazarus Pits. He can buy or bully the villains like Croc and Ivy to do their thang. He could easily have bribed or blackmailed Tommy into slipping something mind-altering into Brucie's noggin, then arrange for someone to "remove" Tommy from the equation lest he decide to spill the beans to his childhood buddy.

The big question is the whole Two Face/Jason Todd thing. Loeb'd have to have big brassy ones to A) repair Harvey Dent's face and B) fix the little "lack of breathing" problem that Jason Todd's had for the last several years and make both "stick." Chances are, Hush is neither Harvey, nor Jason.

The sheer scope of this leads me to think either Lex or Ra's is behind it, and Ra's is usually a bit more brazen when it comes to "owning up" to his master schemes (which seem to be more on either the "Destroy the World" or "Marry My Daughter and Be My Heir" variety). He's not the sort that would "play dumb" like he did in #616 if he was really the one responsible.

I've got to go with Luthor on this one. Tommy's the reddest of the red herrings.

[Spideyfan29]

Hey, quick thought: do you think the chapter titles may have any significance? Y'know like, subliminal messages when read back wards or something?
The Ransom
The Friend
The Beast
The City
The Battle
The Opera
The Joke
The Dead
The Assassins
The Grave

Probably nothing here, just a thought

[absalom_daak]

I spotted something else but it wasn't till my walk to work this morning that I actually came up with a reason for it.

Trenchcoat man utters the following quotes:

"All men by nature desire knowledge"
"We make war that we may live in peace"
"Without friends no one would choose to live though he had all other goods"

These are all quotes from Aristotle.

All I could originally think of was that he was a dead greek philosopher - which didn't really help much.

But then I remembered he was a tutor to Alexander the Great.

Alexander - Lex

Alexander the Great - ruler of a huge empire

Lex Luthor - President of the USA

[Mayberry Bat]

Another great point. I posted on the DC website about the whole Aristotle thing but couldn't get the connection. And totally forgot about him tutoring Alexander. I know the quotes have to mean something.

[Kiryu]

Gah, I was out of the loop a bit.

On the DC board and another site there was an Alternate page to 617 showing someone else holding Tim Drake. I haven't seen it, but from the boards the symbol on the chest was different. I read somewhere that it was Tommy, which would make sense right? He died a few issues before Ra's told Batman about someone using the pit.

It could be a fake, DC deleted all the posts about the images and even posts speaking about them.

[Spideyfan29]

absalom_daak, I like your theory. I'm gonna go see if Vegas is giving betting odds on this. I'll put my money on Lex.

Anyone else think it's funny that this conspiracy against Bats has its own little club uniform (Tommy Eliot, Killer Croc, Harvey Dent, "Jason Todd" all sporting that trench-coat)?

[Masada]

Originally posted by Spideyfan29
Anyone else think it's funny that this conspiracy against Bats has its own little club uniform (Tommy Eliot, Killer Croc, Harvey Dent, "Jason Todd" all sporting that trench-coat)?


Hmm.. what super-strong shape shifters do we know that Lex can control? If that wasn't really croc, all of these people could be fakes.

[Jervis_Tetch]

K, as a true Batman Vet, I have a few things i wanna address on the HUSH issue....

Tommy Elliot- If it does turn out to be him, then it's brutal and obvious, cause he just popped up for the HUSH series...

Jason Todd- I really don't think that's Jason Todd in reality for a few reasons--Primarily because Jason Todd was a kid like Tim and #### was at the time, the dude holdin Robin in the end is a grown man...now i dunno how it works, but i doubt the lazarous pits correct the persons age and growth when they resurrect them....unless Jason really didnt die the first time....

Two-Face- Yeah Gordon recognizes Harvey Dent right away, so I'm assuming they ain't gonna stretch it and say that he's had a few surgeries throughout the series...

Now the bigger Bat Villains we haven't seen yet (anybody feel free to throw any in that i miss, I don't consider ones like Killer Moth and such to be "bigger" ones so dont bother throwin that trash in):

Clayface
Mad Hatter
Mr. Freeze
Penguin

It seems they're tryin to fit everyone in here, so im expectin a few more appearances of new villains...and im not showin favortism, but the Hatter, Clayface, and Penguin can kinda tie in too.

Clayface-If in fact I'm correct and that's not Jason Todd at all then I can only assume it's Clayface makin his appearance.

Hatter-If it IS Jason Todd, then whomever HUSH is could have easily acquired Tetch to do some mind control work to find out everything about Jason Todd, including the bodies' whereabouts

Penguin- He's tied in here somehow, he got cash for something, i doubt he'd be mentioned and dropped right away.

And, finally, just from the description of the next issue on DC, my bets are on Catwoman....not necessarily that she's HUSH after all, but that she will in fact betray Batman, after he's just learned to trust her....however, the only problem with this is that it would screw up the Batman series from here on out, because what would stop her from telling all villains who Batman really is...so if this be the case they're gonna have to find some way to either make Selina "forget" or choose not to reveal the identity....she's already had the #### kicked outta her a few times this series, so maybe they'll just kill her off....doubtful, but this series has thrown me for a few already anyhow.

just my thoughts

[Jervis_Tetch]

man, i can't believe they blocked out #### in that post, ok then , lets just call him Mr. Grayson for now....

[Grayson]

Admittedly, I havn't read all 13 pages of this post.... so I may be repeating a bit. (I read a lot of them, though.)

It can't be Lex. He was "the" villian in Bruce Wayne:Murderer/Fugative. All those dang puzzel pieces on each issue turned out to be a big puzzel of his face.

Another moment that I found interesting just before "Jason" was revealed - Scarecrow douses Batman, who shakes it off. Scarecrow says something like "How could you not be effected like that, unless you're already effected by---" then he gets shot. Or whatever.

Someone's using psychotropic drugs on Batman - and probably Gordan - making Bats see Jason, and Gordon see Harvey. Maybe....

[Gator]

The thing I think absolves Tommy Elliot is that Batman asked for him in the first or second book of the series. It's not like he just showed up.

[Batman1983]

Its Lucius Fox! That or Alfred.....

Heres some fan fiction of mine (written late at night so the dialogue is iffy... IMHO)

__________________________________________________________

HUSH- Alternate of #618... next months...

Batman:Jason!

Tim: Batman...

Jason: Hush Pretender

Batman thought: All those years all that grief. I want to believe that Jason is reacting to the Lazarus pits, but deep down inside I know this is what he'd want. He blames me. He'd want to take everything from me... *(not finished yet)*

________________________________________________________

*(Second half)*

Batman has just returned to the bat cave alone...

Batman(getting out of Car): I know you're here...

Voice(coming from the bat chair): Very astute Mr. Wayne, but you're still a turn behind. (spins around the chair revealing himself to be Lex Luthor)

Batman: It was Shiva you know...

Lex: Of Course... Strictly business. Though there is a devine pleasure in all this.

Batman: You don't think I'd believe this was about stocks & Politics Luthor. Why, if it was all about power, was there any reason to kill Tommy?

Lex: You still don't get it. I thought you would, but perhaps your to blinded by your faith in others to relize. I had money, conections, power, opportunity... The list goes on. I'm the "Queen" Mr. Wayne. The most powerful piece, but hardly the most deadly. As for Mr. Elliot... He became to smart for the game.

Batman: You wont get away w/ this one Luthor... No matter what.

Lex: You've been given a question. The answer sits in your living room Mr. Wayne. I have to get back to Washington. Goodnight.

Batman (looking at Luthor then at the stairs): I'll be coming for you.

Lex: I'll be looking forward to the day... For now I'll enjoy the pleasures at hand. (Begins to fade, as he does he looks back w/ a smug grin.)

(this is where the music starts... lol)

Batman begins to climb the stairs to his home. When he comes to the door he pauses, then opens it w/ one hand & grabs Batarangs with the other. He almost floats into the hallway. Immediately noticing light from underneath the doorframe of the living room. He stalk over & flings it open.

"Welcome home Master Bruce."

2 page splash of the livingroom. in the center is Alfred in a reading chair. All around him are bat villians: Joker & Harley, Riddler, Killer Croc, Poison Ivy, & Scarecrow.

End of #618

What do you think should I write a first half to #618 & a #619... There is probably no way this will happen but it would rock.

[Batman1983]

As for why I think its Lucius... Bruce keeps mentioning him, hes not as big a character as Alfred, Bruce Wayne trusts him, Lucius would probably get the company if Bruce died, & perhaps Huntress(Oracle? & Black Canary?) were contacted & thought they were helping Batman round up his enemies or save harvey or something.... That last one would make more sence if it was Alfred because they would trust him & I don't think Lucius knows Bruce is Batman (if hes Hush he does, but Oracle wouldn't know this)... It would be very gutsy for DC to make Alfred a badguy, but they brought back Jason Todd.... or did they?

[Batman1983]

oh Clayface (if hes in it) is probably not smart enough to pull all this off... Penguin is, but there hasn't been hints to his involvement. Mad Hatter is probably being used. I think Lex is involved, but as a front money man that has a vested interest in destroying Batman... or making him go bad.

[Jervis_Tetch]

K, since nobody addressed this point in my previous post i'm gonna state it again because I could be wrong....as I'd pointed out, Jason Todd was a kid just like the others Robins when he died...so I don't think it can be him for the simple fact that I don't think the lazarous pits have the ability to correct a person's age and growth when resurrected, and that's definately a grown man holding Tim at the end of the last issue....I could be wrong though since I dunno extensive information on how the pits work so that's what im hopin someone can explain...

[malchyor]

remember what ra's said in 618?

"who would want someone dead to come back to life?"

hate to suggest it, cuz i don't know how the hell it would come to pass, but i think we're looking at bruce wayne. no idea how this is possible, but how many times have we seen bruce wayne since this whole Hush thing started? it's been almost totally batman.

think bruce is tired of paying for the sins of batman. think that everytime in the past that bruce stopped to think about batman's sins, a little piece of him said, "shhhhhh" or "hush", and the questions just stopped coming. then he snapped. like i said, i have no idea how the two could be separate. but i think that bruce is on that DC contest list for a good reason.

[Spideyfan29]

I like your story, Batman1983. My only problem with it is I can't imagine Lex Luthor calling himself a "Queen".

[KidInTheHelmet]

Great job absalom_daak. You got all the important info right there. I think there's going to be guesses thrown around right until the final issue comes out. I gotta try to find that alternate page.

[Batman1983]

Originally posted by Spideyfan29
I like your story, Batman1983. My only problem with it is I can't imagine Lex Luthor calling himself a "Queen".

I know I typed that through clenched teeth... Its very un Luthor to call himself a queen. lol. Its just if he wasn't the main guy(King) then he'd be the most powerful.... However looking back if Jason turns out to be two face I can see him being the queen as hes goes everywhere & does alot. Thanks for input.

[Spideyfan29]

wow, this thread dropped into obscurity pretty quickly. I didn't think I'd have to resuscitate it.

uhhhhhhhhh........

What if HUSH is the president of Batman's fan club? (just had to watch that AWFUL Selena movie: JLO's first crime against humanity)

[berniealonge]

Hey malchyor, I see what you're saying.
A possiblility just came to me based on that quote from Ra's.

Maybe Bruce died after that fall, and Tommy didn't save him. Instead he was taken by someone to a Lazarus pit and brought back to life. All of the events of Hush are in his wacked out mind after coming out of the Pit or while he's in it.

I hope that's not it, it's too "dream sequence" to me.

[Kiryu]

This isn't about the comic, but apparently Mattel is putting out a Batman HUSH action figure line.

So far Batman, Killer Croc(Mutated), and Joker have been revealed as part of this line. Leaving 2 more figures up.

[berniealonge]

Bingo Kiryu,
here's a link

http://www.aftimes.com/aslu/slu.shtml

Shown are catwoman, Ivy, Bats, and Joker.

[dj_sha]

I was reading the hardcover of the first few issues of Hush and in one part, Hush is on the building, looking down at Batman next to a neon sign. Batman turns around, but Hush is gone. But, if you look at the sign, the part you can see says "Robins." Coincidence?

[Spideyfan29]

that was brought up in a Loeb interview. He dismissed it as props to a friend with said name.

[Zatara55]

I'm starting to worry that this is going to be one big hallucination. As much as I like the fact that Batman revealed his secret identity to Catwoman, I don't think it's going to stand.

[Spideyfan29]

I'm starting to think maybe SHE's the spy young Tommy Elliot was referring to. Its clear that HUSH already knew Batman's true identity, but he needs someone on the other sidelines to send him bats's plays. The only reason I haven't committed to this idea is that it would mean she's crossed back over to the bad side. Thus Loeb would have ended her solo comic series.
Your thoughts?

[Batman1983]

Originally posted by berniealonge
Hey malchyor, I see what you're saying.
A possiblility just came to me based on that quote from Ra's.

Maybe Bruce died after that fall, and Tommy didn't save him. Instead he was taken by someone to a Lazarus pit and brought back to life. All of the events of Hush are in his wacked out mind after coming out of the Pit or while he's in it.

I hope that's not it, it's too "dream sequence" to me.

I like that... I hope thats not it but had you said nothing it would have at least suprised me...

[sliverbelt]

Yeah, I guess the more I read, the more Lex Luthor sounds feasible, Batman mentioned that Lexcorp had aquired the chemical plant where the kidnapping took place in #608.

[Spideyfan29]

About that white streak in"Jason's" hair. I know Ra's has the white hair thing going on around the temples, but is that because of the pit? I thought it was because he's freakishly old. Has it been previously established that the Lazarus pit causes your hair to lose its color?

[Batman1983]

& if so then if Bruce had died (& was brought back) he'd have to be using Hair coloring during the funeral.

[sidomar]

Harvey Dent with plastic surgery? Just my two cents (well, maybe one and a half...)

[Zatara55]

Off the subject but....does Lois Lane know Batman's identity? If so, when did she find out?

[Zatara55]

Off the subject but....does Lois Lane know Batman's identity? If so, when did she find out?

[Batman1983]

Clark would tell his wife everything like the boy scout he is... I don't know if he asked Bruce, but I'm sure he did. Its been for at least a couple years if not since the marriage.

[LostKhance]

Clark's a Boy scout like you said, he wouldn't do anything dishonorable like tellin Bats ID without consent.

Sidenote: The Hush action figures line does NOT include Catwoman. At least not yet, that was a statue made for the series. The First Wave is;

Batman
Poison Ivy
Joker
Hush
Huntress

[Spideyfan29]

How bad of an ending would there have to be to make you dislike the entire story arc? I LOVED this story. Especially the Superman and Joker fights. For me, HUSH would have to be revealed as friggin' Santa Claus for me to lose interest in the whole story.

But that's just me.

[Jervis_Tetch]

If it turns out to be some sort of dream sequence....like if Bruce only saw all this in his head cause he was in a coma and didnt wake up from that fall.....i think that'd ruin it for me

[malchyor]

yeah, a dream would be a way way too easy thing. except, tommy's appearance was just TOO easy as far as the storyline went.

that and i really like the idea that bruce wayne has finally broken off as a distinct identity from batman (not just a secret ID, but a multiple personality warring for control).

[Flashback81]

OKay, I don't read the Batman series, and I have only picked up info on the Hush saga from these posts, but let me throw a new (?) bone into the middle of this dogpile:

It's Bruce Wayne's father.

Mull over that one. Think about it, or maybe I'm just trying to sound like I know something I know nothing about.

Ciao!

[Spideyfan29]

I did think about that, BRIEFLY. If Thomas Wayne came back from the dead it would not only ruin this story arc, but the entire series (all the way back to Detective Comics 27).

[Kiryu]

SPOILER**********











Jason Todd turned out to be Clayface. Harold is the spy, and the bandaged man at the end of the issue said "What is a friend? A Single Soul dwelling in two bodies" he was wearing the green ring that Tommy Elliot wore.

[Kon_el]

did anyone else notice that Tims "R" insignia was wrong in the last scene of 618. it was the old R like Richard and Jason used not the styleized version Tim has

[malephoenix]

Here's my 2 cents: That ring? And that phrase? Yeah, it's Tommy. Not sure why (I'm not buying that motive mentioned a long time back about it being possibly b/c Bruce wasn't there when Tommy's mom died), but it's him. Clayface took his place in the casket. And my guess? Harold was the one who took a dip in the Lazarus pit as the "healing" he was promised.

[malephoenix]

Here's my 2 cents: That ring? And that phrase? Yeah, it's Tommy. Not sure why (I'm not buying that motive mentioned a long time back about it being possibly b/c Bruce wasn't there when Tommy's mom died), but it's him. Clayface took his place in the casket. And my guess? Harold was the one who took a dip in the Lazarus pit as the "healing" he was promised.

[SteveRogers]

It is all a dream...just think about it...bruce wayne when operated on had the bandages around his own head if not...then what a kick in the testicales w/ your best friend trying to kill you.

[Key-gun]

The healing harold part makes sense. Also Harley mentioning the script in the issue Tommy dies, could that mean it was scripted death with clayface ther in Tommy's place, who would be shot by whoever when Bat-man was teampararily tied up with Quin.

[jay_of_titan]

It all makes sense...I figured it was Tommy from the start. The childhood bitterness, the introduction of a new character, not to mention that they had to be wealthy to pay off everyone, yet want to get Bats back personally...

[BrotherPudge]

I thought it was Harvey Dent. Why would Jim Gordan imagine Harvey Dent under the scarecrows gas? Tommy would make sense though just why would they go off on that harvey dent angle? I must have missed somthing!

[Azrael0626]

Originally posted by SteveRogers
It is all a dream...just think about it...bruce wayne when operated on had the bandages around his own head if not...then what a kick in the testicales w/ your best friend trying to kill you.
I called that awhile ago, but I'm having doubts. I originally thought it was Tommy and then thought it might be a dream Bruce is having while being operated on. Even with the second to last issue I'm still not 100% with my theories even with Tommy's necklace around Hush's neck. So far Jeff Loeb has done a great job. We will see how great with the next issue.

Kon_el, I also noticed the wrong Robin insignia on Tim's costume. Kind of odd, but maybe Mr. Lee just made a mistake.

[flaxwless]

I too am not sure who it is. But I'll take my stab and say it's Riddler. Just cause h's the ONLY villian that Batman has overlooked and believes is done. But yeah it's kind of a stab in the dark.

The only thing I'm confused about is the whoel Huntress thing? Can anyone explain?

[freakazoid_x]

Well I think I do have a clue.

Harold was shot 100% accurately in the heart and head. One of Batmans villians has accuracy as his power, I forget who.

[MasterWolverin]

Then maybe Harold is.... Martian Manhunter under MC! But why would Tommy have all these shapeshifters?

[malchyor]

"a single soul living in two bodies".

that's the clue.

it's bruce wayne.

[TheDarkKnight]

Yes and no!

I dont think Bruces will is stronger than that but, is is a very good possibilty. Only one thing! Was Bruce's name on the list of suspects on the DC website, the whole who is Hush contest they had going!


I wish it was Az Bats!

[TheDarkKnight]

But wait who would be controlling bruce there where definially two ppl in the final page of hsuh part 11.

[Masada]

Originally posted by malchyor
"a single soul living in two bodies".

that's the clue.

it's bruce wayne.

Nope. If anything, Bruce/Bats would be 'two souls in a single body'

[Bubblehead]

Let it be said here and now that Loeb would never , and I mean never use a Deus ex machina ending like a dream seuquence. That's the copout of all writers. He's just too fine a writer to not have that final twist and turn thought out but I'm pretty sure (95%) that it's Tommy. Don't know who else it could be at this point and time with one issue to go. Loeb always (almost, anyway) reveals his finale on the last page of the second to last ish. It's just good storytelling setting up the endgame.

[StormWind]

Originally posted by malchyor
"a single soul living in two bodies".

that's the clue.

it's bruce wayne.

No but it is a clue.

Another clue is the 2 pistols and 2 shots to kill what's his face. (The guy who made the Batcomputer etc.)

Hush is.. Two-Face or more accurately.. Harvey Dent.

In the most recent issue Batman tells us whoever was doing this doesn't know Batman's Real Identity, hence how he was able to figure out that Jason Todd was a fake. Jason never called him Bruce. As far as I know Two-Face doesn't know Batman's real identity.

Though as a lawyer he would have the skills and knowhow to track down and manipulate all the people associated with Batman. It's what lawyers do.

StormWind

[Jervis_Tetch]

Im putting my bets on Tommy too, i know it's really predictable but look at the continuity.....Clayface could have easily been the "dead Tommy" in the alleyway with the Joker, and the one in the casket at the funeral too....hell, the dug up Jason Todd's grave, so I'm pretty sure they'd have no problem digging up Clayface after the funeral had taken place....and my strongest point is probly this.....

Without having to go check, Im pretty sure it's issue 609 where the flashbacks with Tommy playing Bruce at that war game took place. Tommy says Bruce always misses the most important piece, the spy....hence yeah, Tommy enlisted Harold as the spy, it's basically forshadowed there. And as for the "single soul living in two bodies" stuff, Tommy and Bruce are a single soul, they're extremely similar, hence (again in the flashback) Tommy tells Bruce that he can think like him and that's why he's always 6 moves ahead or somethin like that....and Tommy was the first real friend Bruce had because they were so similar....hence yeah they could be considered "soul-mates" sharing the same soul, but they are in two different bodies ....but that's just my thoughts, im hoping im not correct cause the predictability would ruin the whole storyline for me....hopefully im wrong

[Bubblehead]

Just throwing this bone out there:

On the heroes cover, you see Hush. On the villians cover, you see Hush.

First, The good guy is not Hush but Harvey Dent, healed.

Second, the villian guy is Hush.

But is it Two Face or another "personality". I doubt it. I know Loeb loves Two Face (Long Halloween). I have to say it's Tommy. ALthough I've read a couple good Lucius Fox theories. Tommy fixed Harold's speech through surgery or the Lazarus pit. Tommy always referred to "out-thinking" Bruce at his games. Maybe Tommy is making a play for Wayne tech-not my idea, someone else's!!!! What I like about Loeb is even still with one issue to go.....the choices are obvious but no one is 100% sure who's who. I like the Dark Horse of Azrael too. That would be interesting.

[bizzaro]

I was just thinking that most people assumed Harold's speech (who is this guy btw ... I'm not familiar with his history) with the Lazarus Pit. Well ... what about Harvey Dent's face? The dead "Two Face" side could have been brought back to life using the pit, which would certainly be interesting.

At first I thought the HUsh storyline was just going through the motions of having a cool fight with a different villian each issue, but I must admit I'm hooked.

Who is Hush? Well ... back several issues we saw Hush flipping a scarred coin. Plus the final panel of the last issue has Hush using two guns in a manner similar to how Two Face would. Also ... the banaged face costume feels like him too. Is it Two Face?

But then there is Tommy. He was introduced too prominantly to just be killed off and I have to believe he still has an important role to play. All the strategy games he played with Bruce is suppoed to make us think he's capable of outwitting Batman. Is it Tommy Elliot?

I have this weird feeling that the answer will be this ..... Two Face has been split into two bodies. The "healed" body of Harvey Dent ... and I'm thinking that this other body (Tommy's?) with have the entire face scarred.

Any thoughts? Or do I need some more caffeine to come back to reality?
:p

[sluggo]

Didn't Loeb say he would be introducing a new Batman villian in the Hush Storyline?

[ThorsWatch]

you guys have missed everything!

its obviously ex-commish gordon(1st name???)

but really though i think hush is mr freeze.

arnold shwarzenager payed loeb to have hush be mr. freeze so everyone will watch batman and see arnold in it so that people will like arnold and vote for him to be gov. of california.






if your stupid enough to beleive that, i dont know what to say.

i was just thinking of bizzaros idea and then i saw his post.
but that idea is a little farfetched even for comics.ahhh your right its not.

hush is the batmobile!

[Gambit]

I think that Hush is some one not even mentioned throghout the whole story...to bring him back hush is Azrael!

[spidey17]

I think it would be a crazy twist if hush was #### Grayson aka "Nightwing".