Justice like Lightning! The Thunderbolts clan is here!

[WakandaMan]

Hey all. It's about time that HCrealms had a little Justice like Lightning! It's time for the Thunderbolts clan!

So what is this clan about?

It's about fighting for what's right, despite being hounded by both sides of the Law. Thunderbolts believe in winning by outsmarting their opponents. Using teamwork and strategy is vital. Thunderbolts believe that anyone is capable of changing, even the most loathsome trolls.

We're all about second chances. We forgive and move on.

But most of all this is a great place to discuss anything Tbolts related. If you like the sound of that and want to join the Thunderbolts clan, choose a T-bolts character. After your character is confirmed, put his/her name in your sig if you like.

Here is our current membership:

Thunderbolts Roll Call!
Atlas: Wakandaman
MACH-III: RavenProject
Techno: Thunderbolts
Moonstone: maveric28
Fixer: Bob
Hawkeye: PaladinKWA
Charcoal: Glorfindel
Scourge: The Charlatan
Citizen V (Watkins): CosmicBeing
Jolt: Donner
Citizen V (Zemo): GreatArelius1
Baron Zemo: admironheart
Blackheath: shock man x
Cyclone: chrysalis
Captain Marvel: CaptainMarvel
Songbird: Greyson102
Radioactive Man: GAMBIT_99
Cobalt Man: stark's heir
Speed Demon: Maniac_nmt
Pulsar: anthony barnstable
Beetle: Doctor Octopus
Blizzard: denhamkarl
Smuggler: anonymous92
Meteorite: madslaust
Iron Cross: Baron Zemo
Swordsman: olcottr
MACH-I: pirate_monkey
Green Goblin: InfectedGuardian
Venom: darthdufus
Bullseye: Ironman1994
MACH-II: P0W3R C0SM1C 79
Joystick: michiginj24
MACH-IV: GL 2814
Penance: Oroci
Nighthawk: The True Ronin
Jack O'Lantern: Owlman
Taskmaster: Wade Wilson
Doorman: bigmac267
Mr. Immortal: longshott
Headsman: BalladBird
Ant-Man: DarkBlueAnt
Man-Thing: thanosstar
Ogre: candusima
Crossbones: Xais
Juggernaut: DARKNIGHT188
Luke Cage: PvtChurch
Scourge (Nuke): UndeadEnigma
Grizzly: bcjbcj24
Ghost: Greg
Doctor Octopus: Grategy
Photon: darknesspwns

Available positions:

Original series:
Vantage

Lightning Rods:
Big Bertha
Flatman
Dinah Soar

Redeemers:
Scream

Hawkeye's Replacement team:
Amazon
Skein
Harrier

New Thunderbolts:
MACH-V

Fifty States Initiative/Civil War T-bolts:
Quicksand, Unicorn, Mongoose, The Beetle Brigade: (Beetle III, IV & V), The U-foes: (X-ray, Vapor, Ironclad and Vector), Overmind, Whiplash and Blacklash, Porcupine, Ajaxis, Aqueduct, Psionex: (Asylum, Coronary and Pretty Persuasions), Batroc the Leaper, Bloodstrike, Smiling Tiger, King Cobra, Bushmaster, Death Adder, Rattler, Eel, Killer Shrike, Ox and Snake Marston, Primus, Red Ronin, Slyde, Texas Twister, Tatterdermalion, Vermin, Whirlwind, Scarecrow, Lady Deathstrike and Jester.

Osborn's Thunderbolts:
Black Widow (Yelena)
Black Widow (Natasha)
Paladin
Mister X

Luke Cage's Thunderbolts:
MACH-VI
Hyperion
Satana

Underbolts:
Shocker
Boomerang
Mr. Hyde
Troll
Centurius

[WakandaMan]

Clearly my character of choice is Atlas. Not only is he my favourite, but I'm also ridiculously tall, so it fits ;)

MACH-I/II/III would be my next choice.

[RavenProject]

Oh, heck... in celebration of the team's triumphant return, I'll sign on as Mach-III.

Keeping my icon, though. ;)

-J

[WakandaMan]

Oh yeah, for all T-bolts fans, I've created stats for the entire team and will be posting one per week for review in the Dreams and Desires section. The first one is up at the moment: Jolt!

And while I'm at it, I'm working on Blackheath/Plant man, but I don't really know what he was like in his early days. All I can come up with is lousy stats, possibly double Incapacitate, and perhaps stealth. Anyone know any better?

[The Charlatan]

Hm, Plant-Man, before he became a Swamp Thing knock-off, sucked hard. Similar to R Poison Ivy at best. Control over plants could be a good power if you used it imaginatively, but it's pretty hard to translate into clix stats.

[Thunderbolts]

Techno (robot)

:)

[maveric28]

Blackheath rocks! And the new name is so much better than his old Plantman days. If I were to construct him as a HeroClix figure, I'd probably consider a number of powers... in what order or placement on his dial, I leave that to you to consider. Incapacitate: causes plants to grow up and entangle his foes, slowing or stopping them in their tracks. Poison: it wouldn't be the first time someone touched this fella and contracted some venomous pollen or sap, making them sick or unconscious. Barrier: causes huge trees to grow up suddenly, trapping his foes or making a barricade. He once caught Starfox, Cap, and She-Hulk at once with this trick, and it took them some time to break free. Pulse Wave or Energy Explosion: a spray of thorns over a wide area, hurting many people over a wide area. Toughness: now that he's no longer strictly human, as a living plant he can take quite a beating before succumbing to lesser wounds. His attack should be high, his defense and damage medium range, and his speed relatively low. Not Blob low, but more like a steady 5 or 6. He would be used mostly as a backup figure, useful for his many options and not likely to stand alone against a crowd. For that reason, and the fact that he doesn't have fatigue toxins to worry about anymore (doesn't get tired), I'd also consider giving him Willpower, especially at his Veteran level.

As for my favorite Thunderbolt: Moonstone! Despite tremendous strength, powerful energy bolts, meteoric flight speeds and the ability to phase through normal matter, she still uses the most important tool that any of us have: her mind! She's living proof that powers don't make the villain/hero... it's how you mess with your opponents' minds that count.

[Bob]

Originally posted by Thunderbolts
Techno (robot)

:)

If Thunderbolts doesn't mind, I'd like Fixer. I'm really hoping we get to see Techno and Norbert come face to face in the new limited series. That would totally rock!

[PaladinKWA]

I've got a thing for hot blondes with a dark side so I'll be Hawkeye, that way I can hit on Moonstone!

Who needs powers?

=)

[Thunderbolts]

I'm really hoping we get to see Techno and Norbert come face to face in the new limited series. That would totally rock!

Apparently this was going to happen at some point between #76 and #100, Fabe Nicieza said on one forum or another, I forget which exactly, don't think it was Alvaro.

In any event, :( because it did not, but #### if I didn't want to see it so bad...

[WakandaMan]

Well Techno and Norbert are supposedly seperate entities- the seemed to have shared the same "soul", but Norbert had no memory of his time as the robotic Techno.

I have no probs with having both a Techno and a Fixer on the team. Kinda cool.

[Glorfindel]

Charcoal definately!

[WakandaMan]

So far we have

Atlas: Wakandaman
MACH-III: RavenProject
Techno (robotic): Thunderbolts
Moonstone: maveric28
Fixer (human): Bob
Hawkeye: PaladinKWA
Charcoal: Glorfindel.

Not a bad line-up. Of the original team there's only Zemo/C.V., Songbird and Jolt left. Then of course there's Ogre, all the Redeemers, and Hawkeye's substitute T-bolts (Blackheath, Amazon et al).

This should be a good place to hang and talk T-bolts stuff.

Who would win between the Robot Techno, and the human Fixer? I think I'd have to go with the robot. In the battle on the space station he was crazy powerful. But then, the original is usually the best... :ermm:

maveric28- did you actually want to take the name Moonstone or were you just letting us know your favourite? Nice suggestions for Blackheath. I was thinking Phasing as well, for his ability to use tree roots to clear a tunnel for him beneath the earth. Should Plant man have stealth? Was he ever associated with the Sinister Syndicate or MoE?

Wonder what surprises are in store for the limited series. Anyone know how many issues it will be?

[Bob]

Originally posted by WakandaMan
Well Techno and Norbert are supposedly seperate entities- the seemed to have shared the same "soul", but Norbert had no memory of his time as the robotic Techno.

I have no probs with having both a Techno and a Fixer on the team. Kinda cool.

Actually, there was a hint in #75 that Norbert DID know what was happening. I have to look back for the exact quote, but Norbert said something to Abe about the color and it was inferred he knew what was going on.

ANYWAY, power-wise, I'd have to give the edge to Techno over Fixer. The space station proved that.

What I'm interested in seeing in the series is the new Dallas identity/costume.

I'm also hoping that with Thunderbolts coming back. Marvel and Wiz Kids will get going and make some clix of them. I see that Moonstone is on the rumored list and I'm just hoping that they don't ignore her 5 years as a Thunderbolt (like they ignored Hawkeye). I'll just have to wait and see...

[The Charlatan]

Hey, can I be Scourge/Nomad/Jack Munroe? I know that he was never really a member, in fact he killed half the team, but he looked cool, kicked ###, and had a ridiculous number of weapons/powers. Also, I have no idea what being in a Clan means, just that loads of them started popping up out of nowhere one day...

[Thunderbolts]

I was going to say Scourge as a controversial move, heh, but I figured it had to be a bona fide member.

Besides, Scourge killed Robo-Techno. :(

[WakandaMan]

Why not be Scourge? Yeah he was never a member (more like an adversary) but he did end up working with them. Heck I've seen some bizzarre choices for members in other clans (Toad as an X-man? Not in any issues I have :o )

Scourge really did rock. The Scourge vs. Zemo battle is one of my all time favourites. Zemo really came into his own there (only to be killed :eek: )

I figure Clans are really just ways for major fans of a series to get together and discuss info related to them. It allows one to find people who have things in common with I guess, and gives a greater social identity. That's my $50 answer anyway. :classic:

BTW, Thunderbolts, I saw in my Jolt thread you mentioned about a substitute T-bolts team you created using current Clix. I'd really like to know who you used for who.

[Blue_Shield]

The Thunderbolts was a great series. I haven't read an issue since #53(no money no funny books)but try to keep up with it on the message boards and previews catalogs. Is it going back to a team book instead of the "Fight Club" type stuff they've had recently?

The person posting Toad as an X-Men member may have been refering to the X-Men Forever limited series. Toad was one of the people(along with Jean Grey, Iceman, Mystique, & Juggernaut) that formed the team from various time periods.

Also of possible interest. I am selling my Thunderbolts collection on ebay right now. The lot is #-1,1A,1B,2A,2B,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19, 20(all signed by KURT BUSIEK)21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39, 40,41,42,43,44,45,46,47,48,49,50,51,52,53,0 + Annual '97(signed by KURT BUSIEK & RON RANDALL) + Tales of the Marvel Universe#1(signed by KURT BUSIEK, AARON LOPRESTI, & RANDY EMBERLIN)

There are currently no bids

ebay username b_shield

[Thunderbolts]

(all signed by KURT BUSIEK)

Did you just dump them all on his desk at a con or something? :O

BTW, Thunderbolts, I saw in my Jolt thread you mentioned about a substitute T-bolts team you created using current Clix. I'd really like to know who you used for who.

Yeah, I did play a few games at different power levels using substitute characters for the T-Bolts. Here's my crazy choices:

Zemo: E Taskmaster is a virtually perfect fit. Sword then Incapacitate, Mastermind, Leadership.... it's all good.

Techno: Mandarin or Dr. Strange, depending on points. Can be the robot or the man. A bit of a stickler, but he has a variety of powerful abilities. I think his giant gun in #3 shows he can muster a range of 12 if need be :) (I wouldn't give the real fig range like that, this is just subbing). Strange's Phasing is a bit iffy, but he can intrgrate into machines, turn his arms into drills, etc. so I'm sure he can get through walls.

Moonstone: Booster Gold or Vision as appropriate. The new super powerful Moonstone can be Martian Manhunter. Yes, two of those are DC, but still, they fit. Booster is cheap, tough and a flier with super strength and range. Vision is close in abilities also, but more points. Manhunter is very close - I wouldn't say Moonstone is Impervious (we don't know her true power yet), but Phasing and Perplex for Karla are absolute givens. She even has Stealth - she made Zemo, Hawkeye and herself invisible in #75.

MACH-1: Annihilus, changed to Starfire. MACH isn't exactly super strong which the other 'suits' (Iron Man, Crimson Dynamo) are, and his suit is nowhere near as versatile as Iron Man (MACH 2 or 3 may be, but I was using MACH-1 in my teams, heh). The MCH-1 suit got damaged a lot and wasn't that much of 'armour' so Annihilus is maybe wrong here. I found Starfire a great alternative, high damage RCE representing his various missiles and guns well, and Running Shot is a given. The suit was also very fast, so the high movement is justified.

Atlas: Hulk or Sentinel. Sentinel is obvious because of the size, but some of the rules don't gel and Atlas doesn't have a ranged attack really. Hulk... well Atlas gets more powerful as he 'grows' or 'gets mad' (remember Bulldozer in T-Bolts #1?) but doesn't have the size. Atlas is a tough fit, pun intended!

Songbird: This one was difficult. Eventually I decided Iceman, with Quasar for high points. Barrier, RCE and a flier, later Incapacitate sounds like how Songbird works and fights. Also, being panicky in the air as she was when starting out is well represented in Rookie Iceman's 0 damage.

Jolt: Quicksilver. Pretty self explanatory.

Charcoal: Annihilus is an option again, but Crimson Dynamo is probably better. Both are fliers with Invulnerability, but Dynamo adds super strength. Dynamo's RCE might be a bit iffy however, because I doubt Chrcoal hit at rane as powerful as Firelord. Oh well, such is substitutes.

--------------------

That's the original team, at least... Hawkeye is covered (but I sub in Green Arrow ANYWAY :) ) Hawkeye's new team also added... (these guys in brief, because I haven't put much work into it)

Cyclone: Whirlwind :)
Amazon: Mr. Hyde
Blackheath: ....Black Manta :O (no, really, apart from incapacitate I couldn't come up with any ideas for poor plant-man)
Cardinal: Ended up plunking for Doombot.
Skein: No idea.
Dallas: I didn't think of one for this, or for Ion. Just get some Indyclix chick with super senses or something :)

Like to get anyone's opinions on other substitutes.

[Blue_Shield]

Actually I have seen him at about half a dozen shows or so at the Portland, OR con. He is an extremely nice guy.

[WakandaMan]

Ah yes, X-men forever, forgot about that (understandably ;) )

Yes, the REAL Thunderbolts are returning in the mini-series. I never really saw how those other boring characters resembled fight club anyway (except that they fought each other :ermm: ).

I too am wondering what name/costume Dallas will take on. I was thinking she could be a replacement for Jolt? Her powers are kind of similar to Jolt's original powers. Either that or they could tie her to her old Citizen V persona...Citizen D sounds a bit dumb though. :rolleyes:

I really like your subs. Here's my scores for how close they match them.
Starfire is very good for MACH-1, esp the running shot for his manueverability. 9/10 Annhilus is way too powerful though. Possibly for MACH-III 4/10

Iceman is a great choice for Songbird. Perhaps a little under-powered though 8/10

E Taskmaster for Zemo is good. Perhaps a little too good. Can't see stealth or enhancement for Zemo (maybe). 7/10
Techno-with all his abilities he's a hard one. Dr. Strange is best (especially for the robot) 8/10. Mandarin is a bit off I think but okay 6/10

Moonstone. She's really the team's biggest powerhouse (except perhaps for robo-techno). I'd probably like to go Martian Manhunter for her as standard (7/10). The new double-gem Moonstone is ridiculous, and I'd see her around the 200pt mark. Vision is okay, but doesn't have anything to represent her mind tricks (5/10). Booster Gold is not nearly powerful enough. (2/10) He could fill in for MACH-I better.

Atlas. Sentinel doesn't really make sense (except for the size of course). 1/10. Hulk is pretty good. 7/10

Jolt- quicksilver is pretty darn close 9/10

Charcoal- tough one. Annhilus 5/10 and Dynamo 3/10 (can't see Super Strength). There's really no one good for him is there.

I think someone mentioned earlier, Poison Ivy is an okay sub for Plantman/Blackheath. Can definitely see Poison on him. She's not really powerful enough though, and the Mind Control is off... :ermm:

Cardinal and Skein- I'll think about them. Tricky. Cardinal is a LOT like MACH-I...fast manueverable. Perhaps Booster Gold for him?

[The Charlatan]

Let's just use R Swamp Thing for Blackheath, though he should probably have range and Incapacitate...

[WakandaMan]

Skein should have perplex (how else do you describe suddenly finding yourself naked?). So maybe Mystique, or Harley Quinn...who else?

R Swamp Thing...nice. Yeah range and Incap would be good. Does Swamp have poison (I don't believe so, and I can't be bothered checking right now). Perhaps Imp is a bit over the top, but I don't care- Blackheath is crazy powerful actually.

[Bob]

My idea for a substitute clix for Songbird is Green Lantern. He has flight, he uses his ring to "simulate" telekinisis, what else could you want? Except maybe some mind control on the Vet version...

[Thunderbolts]

Moonstone. She's really the team's biggest powerhouse (except perhaps for robo-techno). I'd probably like to go Martian Manhunter for her as standard (7/10). The new double-gem Moonstone is ridiculous, and I'd see her around the 200pt mark.

Well, YMMV of course but Martian Manhunter is 'ridiculous' in the DC universe as is. I dunno if the new Moonstone is on a par with Manhunter or Superman power-wise. Not that I'd complain :)

Charcoal- tough one. Annhilus 5/10 and Dynamo 3/10 (can't see Super Strength). There's really no one good for him is there.

There's also Solomon Grundy - huge dial, super strong, toughness and even Impervious. Cons - doesn't fly, no range attack. Swamp Thing too, Phasing aside - unstoppable strong monster with plasticity later.

Perhaps Booster Gold for him?

Yeah that was another option for Harrier, but Booster was already a sub for Moonstone, above. Not a very good Moonstone I admit, but for 300 pointers using Vision or Manhunter was often too limiting. I think I did just manage to get the entire original 7 in a 300 pointer except Atlas :(

[The Charlatan]

How's this idea for Moonstone: R/E Doc Samson dial, change Leap/Climb to Phasing, add flight and 6' range

[maveric28]

Yeah, put me down for Moonstone as my clan name... she's just way too cool to ignore. And about Blackheath, I'm not sure if Plant Man was ever a Sinister Syndicate or a Master of Evil... but so what? Bullseye was never a member of the Sinister Syndicate, or any other team of any kind, but he was given the team ability to represent an ability for his HeroClix figure. And many Clix that should have team abilities are not given them, or are given some team abilities but not others... What about the Beast's tenure as an Avenger? I'm just saying, if they want to make one or more versions of Plant Man/Blackheath have a team ability, they should do so, and not lose sleep over it. I guess it's too late to come up with a new Team Ability for the PAC.... T-Bolts, anyone?

[maveric28]

hmmm.... Moonstone needs to have at least some Phasing... either early in her dial (to get into position) or later on (to get away). She flies, fairly fast, has a good ranged attack (either 8 or 10 range, depending on which version), also has Toughness and SuperStrength at certain points on her dial. Perplex for a few clicks wouldn't be a bad idea, either that or Outwit, to reflect the mindgames she favors. I don't think any one Clix figure already has that combination. Booster would work, but his dial is too shallow to do her justice. I think E or Vet. Steel might be a better choice, but you'd still have to throw in Phasing and Perplex/OUtwit to do it right.

For Hawkeye, despite the fact that he already has a Clix figure, either Exp. or Vet. Green Arrow works well... much better than the Hawkeye figure, actually. But a T-Bolts Hawkeye should probably start with a few clicks of Leadership, too.

For Jolt, Quicksilver works, but it doesn't really do her justice... think back, and you'll remember that Jolt always bounced around the battlefield like a superball. I think an alternating dial would be a kick... Start with a high Speed Value, and give her either Hypersonic Speed, Charge, or Leap/Climb. You could even just open up with Charge, and then give her Leap/Climb down the board, and maybe Close Combat Expert to represent her electric shocks... she couldn't shoot blasts, right? Y'know, I think Rookie Dove might do the trick.

Exp. Taskmaster is a great choice for Baron Zemo/Citizen V, but if it has a T-Bolts team ability (whatever that would be), then I'd prefer a Citizen V sculpt. If they make a Zemo sculpt, it should be Masters of Evil team ability. Leadership, Mastermind, his Sword (B/C/F), and even Enhancement (coordinating his underlings... I mean, teammate's attacks)... they all work well for Citizen V.

Starfire is a good selection for Mach-1... he flies fast, has Toughness to represent his battlesuit, and can either do Running Shot for his strafing runs, or Ranged Combat Expert for his on-board missiles. The original Beetle had a computer in his armor that learned from his opponent's actions and then compensated accordingly... if he still has that, his AV could climb slowly further into his dial, as his other scores went down.

Songbird has Barrier, Incapacitate, flight, and probably Telekinesis. What about Quasar, or Green Lantern? Ignore the GL team ability, but other than that you might make a case for Lantern.

Atlas is the tough one, here... to do him justice, you need to make him a big fig, like the Sentinel or Sinestro, but he doesn't have Incapacitate, or a ranged attack, or anything else like that. Realistically, I see him with a dial a lot like Hercules... Super Strength all the way down the dial, does 4 clicks or so to start, with an Attack Value that doesn't drop like a stone, and Toughness for most of his dial. One could argue that he deserves a few clicks of Invulnerability, but he's really not in Superman's league as far as Invulnerable or Impervious goes. A 10-click dial and Toughness all the way down would probably do the trick. Then incorporate some of the Sentinel rules for him, like the big size and not being blocked from line-of-sight by other figures, and you'd probably be really close. But I don't think there's a real good way of doing a supersize figure very well with the existing rules... if you keep them as is, you have to deal with the Capture rules, and the constant pushing rules, etc. It doesn't translate well to a non-robot.

What do the rest of you think?

[CosmicBeing]

Oh my god!! Here I thought I was the only Thunderbolt fan here. After the good comic died and the that ####py one stole its good name I was VERY upset. I so need to be a part of this clan! Is Citizen V taken?

Anyway can anyone fill me in on the rumors of a come back for Marvels most wanted? Need to know if it's either a limited series or *gasp* a total comeback. Also a when would be nice. :p :p :p

[CosmicBeing]

Yep I'll be Citizen V. (The real one not Zemo or Dallas)

[Thunderbolts]

The thing to remember about substitute figs is that you can't say 'they should be modified to have this' because it sadly doesn't work that way :(

For Jolt, Quicksilver works, but it doesn't really do her justice... think back, and you'll remember that Jolt always bounced around the battlefield like a superball. I think an alternating dial would be a kick... Start with a high Speed Value, and give her either Hypersonic Speed, Charge, or Leap/Climb. You could even just open up with Charge, and then give her Leap/Climb down the board, and maybe Close Combat Expert to represent her electric shocks... she couldn't shoot blasts, right? Y'know, I think Rookie Dove might do the trick.

Well, there's Toad if you want a cheap Charge/L/C fig with a fairly good move value. Fairly good fit, but... it's the Toad. ;o


Songbird has Barrier, Incapacitate, flight, and probably Telekinesis. What about Quasar, or Green Lantern? Ignore the GL team ability, but other than that you might make a case for Lantern.

Forgot to comment on Bob's GL choice earlier. Excellent sub - no reason to get rid of the GL team ability, remember she carries the team around on those solid sound discs a lot. Or used to in the Busiek issues. Of course, due to the new Clix rules you couldn't carry half the team as they're fliers (and by the end I think they're all fliers but Blackheath, if you count Atlas and Dallas' time as Ion and the fact Zemo had the V Wing :) )

[WakandaMan]

Well, there's Toad if you want a cheap Charge/L/C fig with a fairly good move value. Fairly good fit, but... it's the Toad.

ROFL. I like Jolt the way I made her (Flurry and L/C), but Toad's dial would work too. He's not a horrible actually to play- just not brilliant. I think my biggest issue with Charge is that it's so darn expensive (justifyably so under the new rules though). Jolt should be by far the cheapest T-bolt.

CosmicBeing- nice to have a Citizen V on board. The Thunderbolts don't quite feel complete without one. I did enjoy the "Marvels most wanted" days when Moonstone was running the team, but they were lacking that special something.

Hey Bob- why would Songbird have Mind Control?

maveric28- yeah I agree, but those that have TA's despite never being an official member are usually warranted. Eg. Juggernaut is primarily an X-men foe (or at least used to be), hence the Brotherhood TA. So, I know Plant Man fought Spidey and the Avenegers, but did he do it enough to warrant a Syndicate of MoE TA? I'm thinking at this point that Rookie and Exp would both be Unaffiliated and the Vet will be T-bolts, since as far as I know, he generally worked alone anyway.

[CosmicBeing]

Hey guys,
Here's my idea I had for a Thunderbolts team ability.

Once per turn two Thunderbolts can switch positions up to 4 squares.

-Doesn't cost an action
-Has to be within 4 squares
-Has to be line of sight
-No breakaway

This is to portray the skill of switching opponents that Hawkeye taught them. If you can't beat your opponent, then trade off with a teammate that can.

[WakandaMan]

Oh yeah and CosmicBeing, the Thunderbolts (the real ones that is) are getting a Limited Series starting in February.

Fabian Nicieza will be back to pencil it, which is great! Of course Busiek is the genius who intorduced us to the T-bolts, but I think Fabian carried the torch fairly well. I'm happy that we've got someone who knows the characters well.

As for how many issues, no word yet, or even what it'll be called. You can read more about it here:

http://newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6094

[WakandaMan]

Nice idea Cosmic Being. Perhaps a little overcomplex, but it's a lot like what Thunderbolts suggested over in my Jolt character creation in Dreams and Desires.

My idea was that Thunderbolts never need to roll to breakaway (simulates that they always seem to be on the run).
Thunderbolts suggested that no break away is needed when another T-bolt is adjacent (same reasons you gave)

As for your idea, I think I'd prefer if they were adjacent. Makes it a lot simpler (no concerns about LOS), a bit less powerful, but still potentially very useful.

What does everyones else think about these TAs? Any other ideas, or which do people prefer?

[CosmicBeing]

That is SOOOO cool! I've waited like a year to hear news that good. Even a limited series is much much better than nothing. Not to mention the trash that has its name currently.

And ya WakandaMan, I'm an extremely good source for TB info and stuff. Have EVERY issue, plus the two Cit V limited series.

[WakandaMan]

Me too my friend ;) It was by far my favourite series until #75. I didn't get the second CV limited though. Was it good? What happened in it? Anything pivotal?

I'm planning on getting the "Avengers Under Siege" collected edition soon. Would like to see them being led by Zemo pre-Thunderbolts.

Current line-up:

Atlas: Wakandaman
MACH-III: RavenProject
Techno (robotic): Thunderbolts
Moonstone: maveric28
Fixer (human): Bob
Hawkeye: PaladinKWA
Charcoal: Glorfindel
Scourge: The Charlatan
Citizen V (Watkins): CosmicBeing

No Zemo, Songbird or Jolt yet.

What was the line-up of the Redeemers?
Going from memory there was:
The Beetle
Meteorite
The Fixer
Citizen V
Scream (was it "The Scream" or just "Scream')
and that guy who was Atlas' brother. What was his name...Sneaker, Creeper...something like that :ermm:

Hawkeye's replacement team:
Hawkeye
Songbird
Harrier (formerly Cardinal)
Blackheath (formerly Plant Man)
Amazon (formerly Man-Killer)
Skein (formerly something-moth?)
Cyclone

Am I missing anyone?

[CosmicBeing]

Ya I got the adjacent base thing before too. It makes it easier on the rules, but I like the extra mobility of the added movement. Of course I'm a firm believer that everyone should make up their own rules if they don't agree w/ the existing ones.;)

As for artists my personal favorite was the one that started it all. Mark Bagley drew like the first half of the series and he rocks. Love his work on Ultimate Spiderman too.

[WakandaMan]

Of course there's also the Thunderbolts unofficial "sister" team: THE LIGHTNING RODS! :p

Mr. Immortal
Flatman
Doorman
Big Bertha (?)
Dinah-Sore

Is that all of them? Those guys are hilarious :grin:

[CosmicBeing]

Atlas' brothers name was Smuggler. He was the only cool Redeemer other than Jolt and Charcoal. I personally loved it when Gravition slaughtered them ALL!!! MMWWWAAAHAHAHA

Ok I'm done. P.S. do you think they'll ever bring back Charcoal?

[WakandaMan]

Yeah, funny thing about Bagley...I actually didn't like his work when he started out on T-bolts. My appreciation for the entire series (art, writing and characters) was a very gradual progression. I initially collected it only semi-regularly, but by about issue 8 or 9 I started to really enjoy the characters and the writing so I had to go back and buy the earlier ones I'd missed. Then it wasn't until about 14 or 15 that I really started to appreciate Bagley's work. It grew one me slowly, and now he's easily one of my favourite artists.

Hope the guy on the new series is up to the task. ;) Should be okay.

[CosmicBeing]

HAHA the Lightning Rods were funny. Although I'd like to see them go down against hawkeye's trained team.

[WakandaMan]

Smuggler...that's it! Knew it was something like that.

You can't deny that Fixer was a cool Redeemer. I was so happy to see him.

I actually really liked the Beetle too. I was horrified when Graviton killed her. Absolutely shocked.

Did they ever explain where Smuggler got his powers from? I never got that. Something to do with the Darkforce?

Charcoal will be back sooner or later. Maybe in the new series perhaps?

[CosmicBeing]

I picked up TBolts #1 because I didn't want to get into "Heroes Reborn" and wanted a mainstream Marvel comic. Of course the last two pages of issue #1 had me hooked forever as I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. :cool:

[CosmicBeing]

No they didn't really explain how Smuggler had powers. Prolly went out and bought them due to the bad karma of his brothers troublemaking.

And yes of course Fixer is one of my favorites. Though I greatly prefered the name Techno. Maybe in the next series. I mean how can you not love a guy for saying....

"That ship is the size of Rhode Island!"
-Fixer "So's my Johnson" :p :p :p

[Kid Zemo]

from Wakanda Man:
Skein (formerly something-moth?)
Gypsy.
What does everyones else think about these TAs? Any other ideas, or which do people prefer?
I've always prefered one-half of Plasticity for T-bolts. Breakaway rolls succeed on any die result except 1.
I'm planning on getting the "Avengers Under Siege" collected edition soon. Would like to see them being led by Zemo pre-Thunderbolts.
It's great. Fixer is creepy, Moonstone is vying for control with Zemo, Goliath is loyal, Screaming Mimi is hardly there. It sets up the character arcs in such a way as to surprise you that T-bolts wasn't always the plan!
Did they ever explain where Smuggler got his powers from? I never got that. Something to do with the Darkforce?
It was definitely darkforce. I thought the powers came from the suit.

Kid Zemo

[ranvage]

The Lightning Rod's? They gave the Great Lakes Avengers a new name?

[The Charlatan]

Yukio, from INDYclix, would make a halfway decent Moonstone.....if she had flight and a ranged attack...:(

Songbird might deserve Mind Control because she found a way to use her powers to make people 'suggestable' in the issues after #50.

Plantman may have been a member of the Syndicate. He was a member of whatever villian group it was that fought Spider-Man in Web of Spider-Man issue....100? 200? The one with the silver Spider-Armor.

[Bob]

Originally posted by WakandaMan

Hey Bob- why would Songbird have Mind Control?


I'm not positive on the issues, but I believe it was in the the Life Sentences annual where Melissa "persuades" a customer to buy a stereo. Also, she convinces Captain Marvel to release her team mates in whatever issue that he was in. I believe it has been hinted in other later issues that her voice has developed a limited mind control power.

[WakandaMan]

ranvage- The Great Lakes Avengers changed their name to the Lightning Rods when the Avengers apparently "died" and were no more. This happened in a couple of issues of deadpool, which were quite funny, and then they later showed up in T-bolts and fought them after it was revealed that the 'bolts were bad guys. They actually did surprisingly well.

Later on the two teams worked together to take on Graviton. Lotsa fun.

Okay I guess Mind Control might be warranted. I do remember that a bit now.

Hey did any of you guys used to read H4H as well. I loved that book also- similar in tone to the T-bolts in a lot of ways, and the 'bolts guest starred in one issue as well

[Blue_Shield]

The Heroes for Hire series was great(man I was pissed when they cancelled it)

Under Seige is such a great story, I read it when it originally came out in '86 and have re-read the issues several times since.

[WakandaMan]

Next time I visit my store (which I only do about once a month since it's 2 hours drive away :( ) I'll try and pick it up.

Hey, this week's Thunderbolt is up in the Dreams and Desires section for review...it's Songbird (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66441)

[WakandaMan]

Kid Zemo....I like you T-bolts TA idea. Breakaway on anything but a 1 sounds fair.

[CosmicBeing]

Hey I just thought of something. If you wanted stats for a Moonstone with two stones you could use Amazo. The only thing that needs stretching would be plasticity. For that you could say she's affecting gravity. I think I remeber her using that when phasing the ships at the end of the series.

[WakandaMan]

Nice one. Amazo would make a fair bit of sense for her actually

[Glorfindel]

That would be cool. It would be nice to have a Marvel version of Amazo, especially if it were Moonstone.

[Bob]

This may be a stretch, but how about giving Techno and Fixer support? They have been responsible for preserving/restoring life for Zemo, Jolt, and themselves?

[Donner]

can I be Jolt please oh please please please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would jump for Zemo, but don't think I have the evil in me. Noit!!!!!!!!!!!

[GreatArelius1]

Hi guys

Personnally the T-bolts are my fav group of all times. I have recently joined the HCRealm. If you'll have me, I was wondering if anyone has taken Citiven V or MACH I yet?

[WakandaMan]

Donner, Jolt is officially yours!

Great Arelius, hmmm...RavenProject has taken MACH-III, and CosmicBeing is the John Watkins C.V., but I suppose there's no reason we can't have a MACH-I and II and the other Citizen V's as well (Baron Zemo and Dallas Riordan). Which would you like? Especially since we have both Techno and Fixer.

Current line-up:

Atlas: Wakandaman
MACH-III: RavenProject
Techno (robotic): Thunderbolts
Moonstone: maveric28
Fixer (human): Bob
Hawkeye: PaladinKWA
Charcoal: Glorfindel
Scourge: The Charlatan
Citizen V (Watkins): CosmicBeing
Jolt: Donner

Open slots are now:
Baron Zemo (either as C.V. or himself)
Songbird
Dallas Riordan (as C.V.)
Ogre
Blackheath
Amazon
Skein
Harrier
Cyclone
Smuggler
The Beetle
Meteorite
Scream

That's all I can think of. :o

[GreatArelius1]

Cool, then I shall done the costume of Citiven V! (Zemo) Thanks for having me aboard.

[Thunderbolts]

This may be a stretch, but how about giving Techno and Fixer support? They have been responsible for preserving/restoring life for Zemo, Jolt, and themselves?

That's part of the reason I went for Doc Strange to represent Techno/fixer - amongst his zillion powers are a few clicks of support.

Couldn't think of any reason why he'd be able to use probability control, but I figure he'd have some targeting gadgetry and other such stuff to provide rerolls. ('Hey, no problem MACH-1, I used a quick tractor beam to pull your missiles across a little so they actually hit your target. Not everyone can be as good as me!')

[WakandaMan]

Did Fixer (ie, the human one) ever use a support like power (ie. heal anyone)? I know the robotic one did. Of course, theoritically the human one could do most of what the robot one could (except the total merging with machinery bit).

[WakandaMan]

Hey guys, check out my list for a hypothetical Thunderbolts themed expansion in this thread (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=637681#post637681).

Let me know what you think. Personally, I'd be over the moon, but the chances are slimmer than rolling a critical hit 8 times in a row. :p

What would be a good name for a T-bolts Expansion? I like "Lightning Strikes" or "Struck by Lightning"

[Bob]

Originally posted by WakandaMan
Did Fixer (ie, the human one) ever use a support like power (ie. heal anyone)? I know the robotic one did. Of course, theoritically the human one could do most of what the robot one could (except the total merging with machinery bit).

I was thinking of when Fixer transferred Zemo's "soul" (or mind or whatever) to his counterearth counterpart. It's a stretch, but I really want someone on the T-Bolts team to have support.

How about this for a T-Bolt TA: Any two members of the team can give up a click of damage each in order to revive a KO'd team member and return them to the board? Of course they would only have 1 click of health and would rely on someone with Support to bring them up.

[The Charlatan]

Originally posted by WakandaMan


What would be a good name for a T-bolts Expansion? I like "Lightning Strikes" or "Struck by Lightning"

"Most Wanted"? ;)

[Thunderbolts]

What would be a good name for a T-bolts Expansion? I like "Lightning Strikes" or "Struck by Lightning"


As the Charlatan said, 'Most Wanted' would fit the bill, since there'd be a Hulk, Wolverine, Spider-Man and Elektra in there anyway.

[WakandaMan]

Okay, rumour is that Moonstone is in the next set. This is very good news.

HOWEVER....

rumour is that she has been given the Avengers TA to simulate Thunderbolts. Does anyone know whether this is true? If so, how do we feel about this?

Personally I was hoping that Moonstone would be:
Rookie: Unaffiliated
Exp: MoE
Vet: MoD - this represents not only T-bolts, but also her willingness to join whichever side she thinks is going to come out on top.

It also seems that one version will be called Meteorite. While I think that is cool, Moonstone was the only T-bolt to never truly take on her new code name- she kept it only until their ruse was over, and then went back to being called Moonstone again.

There are some good points to the possible Avengers affiliation.
A: It increases the likelyhood of more T-bolts
B: Hawkeye is a prominent member of both. We can play his current versions as a T-bolt (even though they're crud)
C: The Thunderbolts were in many ways the Avengers replacement team during the Heroes Reborn saga. They also worked together to take down Count Nefaria.

Bad points:
A: No Thunderbolts TA- Grrr
B: Thunderbolts are vastly different from the Avengers in many ways. Their status quo is almost the opposite.
C: Many of the Avengers hate the T-bolts and vice versa, due to their dark history (eg. Hercules) and would never work together with them

I'm sure there's others.

[WakandaMan]

This week's Thunderbolt is up for review in Dreams & Desires. It's MACH-I/II/III (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67216)!

Check it out and let me know what you think.

[Thunderbolts]

Apparently her team goes:

R - MoE
E - Avengers (and name change to METEORITE! :) )
V - Avengers or None - currently there's some confusion about this. Name back to Moonstone.

Hopefully we get a preview of her soon. She's supposed to be 'orange' so I am guessing it's her T-Bolts costume (first one or second, before the whole Supreme Intelligence stuff that resulted in her third costume, or the Graviton team-up that resulted in her fourth, Or the double gem fifth. Wow, she changes costume as much as the Wasp)

[WakandaMan]

I sure hope it's the second one. Definitely my favourite of the lot. I really didn't like her first T-bolts costume.

At least she has an excuse for changing so often- she only has to think it and it happens. But I suppose the Wasp does have more money than sense. She probably has a team of costume designers constantly working on her next one.

Minions of Doom would still be ideal for the Vet. I'd rather have her as an Avenger than nothing at all. I like the name change though. I wonder if the Exp won't have phasing then (since she didn't use that power while she was masquerading as Meteorite).

I hope they do a preview of her! PLEASE WIZKIDS!

[Thunderbolts]

Guys.

MOONSTONE!

Can't link it, but go check Rumour Mill!

:O :O

[Glorfindel]

Yeah, she is confirmed.

I'm pretty dissapointed about her being an Avenger. Is it really that hard to make new team abilities?

[Glorfindel]

Ok, here is the link to her Picture. SPOILER!

Click here to see Moonstone pic (http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/View?u=4053759&a=30930278&p=65463426&Sequence=0)

[Thunderbolts]

*coughPICTUREINRUMOURMILLcough*

We knew she was in it, but....

:)

edit - oh, ok, you saw it :)

[Glorfindel]

What do you think? It's probably the worst picture out of all of them, so it's still a little early to make up my mind. She does like pretty good though.

[Thunderbolts]

Really? I thought it was one of the clearest. Both pose and sculpt are brilliant, pose taken from the cover of the First Strike TPB, I believe.

[WakandaMan]

I must say, she does look very good. I do prefer the next costume that she had, but it'll be easy enough to mod (and fun too).

Looks like I'll be doing a bit of modding with this set, since clearly Rhino will need to be put in his classic duds. I so do not understand why they went with the Ultimate version. At least the Ultimate Green Goblin appeared in about a dozen issues and had plenty of dialogue. Ultimate Rhino was in one issue, and only about 3 panels and had no dialogue whatsoever! Ah well...cut off the excess horns, a bit of modelling clay and a paint job will fix him right off.

But back on topic (had to rant that somewhere), I like our chances of seeing more T-bolts now. As much as I would love a new TA, the free movement is one of the more useful ones (IMO), and Avengers fits probably better than any other (except maybe Spidey or MOD, but having a whole team with those TA's is pointless and expensive).

I want at least one T-bolt per set now!

Actually I'm more annoyed about Kree getting the SHIELD TA. It's a much worse fit.

[Bob]

Originally posted by Glorfindel
Ok, here is the link to her Picture. SPOILER!

Click here to see Moonstone pic (http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/View?u=4053759&a=30930278&p=65463426&Sequence=0)

I can't get this link to work - any one else having trouble seeing this?

[Thunderbolts]

Wizkids had the photo gallery shut down about half a day after it appeared.

[WakandaMan]

This weeks Thunderbolt is up fro review, and guess what? It's Moonstone (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68165)!

Drop by and give me your thoughts. Overpowered or spot on? And just how close will it be to the Moonstone that will soon be in our hands....

I wonder.

[CosmicBeing]

It's good but I think her Vet should have a higher starting AV. But then again I love a good AV.:p

[WakandaMan]

Mmmm...except for IC, high Av's have been very rare though. And moonstone is not an exceptionally skilled fighter by anyone's standard. Her strength is actually more in her mind than in her fists. ;)

[WakandaMan]

I feel like reminiscing....

What was everyone's favourite story arc or plot line from T-bolts?

Let me see if I can recall the major plotlines....

1) The initial 12 issues, in which they pretend to be heroes and successfully dupe the world. This was a lot of fun, and was a great set up arc. I especially loved issue 12- casting the traditional heroes as the "bad guys" under Zemo's control was a stroke of genius.

2) A couple of issues in Kosmos. Here we got to see Karla's dark side....some good plot set up.

3) T-bolts return to earth and go on the run. I liked this arc. Moonstone trying to lead. SHIELD and the Lightning Rods chasing them. The initial fight against Graviton. More Masters of Evil fun. Then Hawkeye and Charcoal join. I see this arc as finishing in the awesome #25- one of my favourite issues.

4) The new HQ at Mt. Chateris. Ogre appears after a while, Techno returns. Graviton returns. USAgent tries to take them down. Scourge goes on a killing spree. Things got pretty convuluted in here, and a lot of stuff happens. It seems to wind up in #50 where Hawkeye gives himself up to earn pardons for the rest of them.

5) The Redeemers take over the book for a few issues until Graviton returns and puts an end to them, forcing the original T-bolts to regroup and fight him.

6) The double storyline starts with the real T-bolts off on counter earth doing their stuff, while Hawkeye and Songbird gather a new group on the real Marvel Earth. This leads into the final issue in which they all get back together.

There ya have it. 5 major status quo changes. One of my favourite issues has to have been the Scourge vs. Zemo book. That was the first time that we got a glimmer of the fact that Zemo had also changed from being a T-bolt. I think that is the Thunderbolts greatest strength- there is REAL change and growth in the characters. They don't try to maintain the status quo like all the other comics out there- instead they do the opposite and shake it up.

So...what's your fave issues?

[Thunderbolts]

The first story arc (1-12), most of the first bit of Fabian's run (34-50, but it can often seem like a lot of splintering plots that only tie together because of the Scourge thing), and the return of the original 'Bolts in 56-59,

[GreatArelius1]

Hmmm favorite issue or plot line? Probably the ones they were on Kosmos. Very good story line there.

[WakandaMan]

Really? The Kosmos issues were quite uninteresting to me. I was very relieved when they got back to earth. If it wasn't for that nasty murder incident I would have rated that arc as entirely forgettable. :rolleyes:

Anywho, I REALLY liked the arc straight after that when they were on the run. Lots of SHIELD interference, and everything just seemed so up in the air- I really wanted to know what was going to happen. It was loads of fun, and I REALLY enjoyed the Lightning Rods. They were actually good, but not unbelievable.

I love the 3 battles against Graviton. He was cool as a major villian for the T-bolts- scary powerful, and kind of parrellel to them in motives (in that he is unsure of what he really wants at first, and then chooses ultimate power). Graviton is to the Thunderbolts as Magneto is to the X-men.

I didn't enjoy the Redeemers, but just because most of the normal characters vanished for a while. The Redeemer characters themselves were okay.

I quite liked the split story- but probably just because I enjoyed the Hawkeye side of it so much, and I still got to see what the normal T-bolts were up to as well. Clearly they learned from the Redeemers mistake.

[The Charlatan]

My sinlge favorite issue is probably #39, the Scourge vs Zemo issue.

My favorite storyarc is the first one, where they were pretending to be heroes. I wish that that one had been stretched out somewhat longer than it had been...

[admironheart]

Hey all,

I would love to join this clan. I have rounded up most of the issues except for some of the early stuff just this year.

Hawkeye is my favorite character.
But he is taken.

I will take Songbird [screaming mimi]

wes

[admironheart]

want to change me mind,

I want Baron Zemo!!
thanks

[admironheart]

here is a link to some of my mods, includin hawkeye and cardinal

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jhaden65/lst?.dir=/Heroclix+mods&.view=t

enjoy

wes

[admironheart]

I think the team ability should come from their origins.
the Avengers and Masters of evil.

the MOE is obvious
the avengers come in from the Hawkeye era.

So what does that translate to ?

I think if 2 T-bolts are side by side they can make 1 action of any type plus one Move actions for a cost of 1 action.

So this is similar to the Avengers ability, but not quite as good.

Maybe it should be that it could include any and all T-bolts that are side by side get the bonus move actions for each additional member?

It keeps the MoE grouping ability of acting together, plus the training of the avengers as well

what do you think?
wes

[admironheart]

check this link out to view hawkeye post WCA and Avengers and as a leader of the T-bolts

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51378&perpage=15&display=&pagenumber=1


wes

[WakandaMan]

Nice....I do agree Hawkeye should have an 11 AV for his accuracy.

Interesting ideas for a TA....perhaps a little overcomplicated though. I'll think on it more...it does have potential.

Love your mods. I had exactly the same idea for a hawkeye mod as the Tbolts leader (using Cap's legs). Lots of T-bolts related mods is good to see. Graviton is cool. Even Tiger Shark. Great work....and welcome. We could use a Baron Zemo. :cool:

[WakandaMan]

The Thunderbolts' own big fig is now up for viewing in the Dreams and Desires section- it's my namesake, Atlas (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=663851) (Yay!)

Check it out. :cool:

[WakandaMan]

Hey guys. I've just posted this week's Thunderbolt in Dreams and Desires...it's
P. Norbert Ebersol, aka The Fixer, aka Techno (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=673110#post673110)

Take a peek, and let me know what you think of him. Personally...I think he's a very cool fig,and I want one....so bad. One of these days I'm going to have to make a mod of him.

Hey Admironheart, I thought you might be interested to know I'm making a Man-Ape mod at the moment. I'll scan a pic in and send it to you when I'm done if you want. :p

[Bob]

Fixer and Techno look awesome! I'm just afraid that WizKids will underestimate him and seriously underpower him. I'm glad you through the Support in for him - between saving himself, Jolt, and Zemo, I think he deserves it.

As far as the sculpt goes, I hope they go with the bald, goatee wearing Fixer that showed up when he returned from the dead to join the Redeemers.

And when/if they make Techno, it probably will be as a Unique and I'll have to spend some serious change on eBay to pick him up. Oh well, gotta have him!

[admironheart]

Thanks Wakandaman...I will be getting back into modding once my 40k tourney is over this weekend. I wonder If I should finish my early costume of Moonstone or not since she is being released?

Question. Who did the Fixer fight mostly before joining the T-bolts? Was he solo or with a group?
thanks
wes

[Bob]

Originally posted by admironheart
Question. Who did the Fixer fight mostly before joining the T-bolts? Was he solo or with a group?
thanks
wes

The few runs I have with Fixer in them are Avengers. But he's also made appearances in Marvel Two-in-One, Marvel Team Up, Iron Man and a few others.

[Bob]

Oops, forgot the second part of the question. Fixer started out as a section lead in Hydra. From there, he often teamed up with Mentallo, a telepath. He did some stuff on his own and then joined the Masters of Evil. And from there, of course, the Thunderbolts.

[WakandaMan]

There are stats out for the LE Moonstone: Dr. Karla Sofen (http://www.hcrealms.com/cgi-bin/get_unit.cgi?num=cm219)

She's reasonably playable, but I don't really get why she'd have RCE. I'm getting over the RCE/Super Strength LE. Don't get Icapacitate either, and no Perplex OR Outwit!!! What the!? Hopefully the LE's stats are fairly different from her REVs.....fingers crossed big time.

THe fig is very nice though. AT least I won't have to drive myself crazy trying to get this LE....unless of course the REV's suck even moreso :ermm:

Hmmm....she is on a flight base, but her speed type at the Wizkids site says "Boot" instead of "Wing". Hope thats a mistake. And if you're wondering, Wizkids doesn't have the cool 'revolving' view fig on their site. D'oh!

[Glorfindel]

Yeah, I was browsing around at the Wizkids site and saw those stats before they were at hcRealms.

I agree with you totally, I hope the REV is entirely different! Incapacitate??

[Thunderbolts]

Throw away your optimism, she's basically the same in her REV. I just submitted the stats to the mods to put up. she's in the Warriors section.

You can tell they didn't really care much. V is still called Meteorite, E phases, they all have the exact same powers with just higher stats.... if JonL did this fig he sure did mail it in that week.

'Right, so she like, uses psycho babble to confuse her opponents - that's incapacitate, that is.'

:(

(actually, I submitted the Veteran as Moonstone, but Draddog got it right, the base does says Meteorite, I never checked).

Still, now I have her and Moon Knight, I don't have to care about the rest of this set (ok, Warbird and the other Unique Avenger).

[Glorfindel]

Yeah, I was very dissapointed to see no Perplex or Outwit. Instead they give her incapacitate....

At least her Veteran is quite playable.

[WakandaMan]

Bah. This is horrible. Messed up the names, the powers....yeesh.

How can Doc Samson get Perplex and not Karla?

What we've been given is just a lame Marvel mersion of Firestorm with less toughness and some Super Srength to start.

I'm going to have to get 6 of her and put her on some custom dials.

Such a shame....but at least it's a cool sculpt, and it's great to have a Thunderbolt! Hope they keep coming. Even if they mess up all the dials, it's better to have some Thunderbolts than none at all.

[CosmicBeing]

I personally will be putting her on a custom dial as well. But like you said I'm just glad they made her. Means there's a good chance for more eventually.:p

[GreatArelius1]

I'm already pondering a team to use Meteorite & Hawkeye together, even thou they arent power houses. Glad to have one of the T-bolts coming out and hope for more to come.

[The Charlatan]

It's not quite perfect, but what do you think?:

Jolt - R Boon 21
Mach 1/2 - R Annihlus 83
Techno - R Dr Strange 64
Citizen V - V Tomoe 44
Atlas - R Hulk 103
Songbird - E Iceman 36
V Moonstone 85
V Hawkeye 64

500 points

[WakandaMan]

Pretty good work there.... Tomoe is a great choice for the Zemo Citizen V, with Leadership, Mastermind and BCF. Stealth and L/C are a stretch, but doable (Leap/Climb could be for his V-wing)

Rookie Boon is not bad for Jolt (except the stealth click). I'd probably go with Rookie Quicksilver though. It's nice getting it spot on 500. The rest are about as good as you're going to get with the current figs available.

[Bob]

I finally got to see the Moonstone clix - ditto. Love the sculpt, stats are pretty strange.

Since we haven't seen a Zemo yet, I'm hoping the next expansion will be MoE/Thunderbolts/Avengers based. I know it's been mentioned before, but at least now I have hope that the others will show up eventually.

[WakandaMan]

I've heard rumour that the next expansion will be mostly street based heroes...eg. Iron Fist, Power Man, Punisher, lots of Spidey allies and villians. Seems likely to me.

Of course they'll still throw the occassional spanner in the works for diversity, like Moon Knight in the "Cosmic" set. Must have a Zemo!

[Glorfindel]

I am quite annoyed. They will be releasing 2 new team abilities with the new DC expansion in March. Why then wasn't a Thunderbolts team ability made?

[The Charlatan]

What did you hear, and where did you hear it?

[Glorfindel]

Well, I heard it somewhere else, but boneyard also has it confirmed in his DC expanion thread. Check out the first page.

[WakandaMan]

:( :surprised :cry: .... How can they give DC new TA's just after releasing a Marvel set which should so much have had 2 new TA's that its just not funny. Thunderbolts and Kree deserve their own! Agh.

Well I guess there is hope now for an Alpha Flight TA. Even a Shi'ar one would be nice. And Wizkids if you're listening, it's not too late to add the Thunderbolts TA! If you do, all will be forgiven for mussing up Moonstone. :p ;) :cheeky:

*sigh*

[WakandaMan]

Hey guys.

This week's Thunderbolt is now up for review in the Dreams and Desires section. It's Citizen V (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70550), and by that I mean all 3 of them, with the Rookie representing Zemo, the Exp is Dallas and the Vet is Watkins. Check it out.

Pleased to say that I've now covered the original team from issues #1-12. I'll go on to later members now, and then I'll look at member of the Redeemers team, Lightning Rods, Hawkeye's team, and some of the major villians...wow, still lots more to cover. :classic:

Hopefully Wizkids will take a look at these dials before they make any more Thunderbolts, so please come and make constructive criticism on them so I can get them as accurate as possible.

[Thunderbolts]

For those not buying it (and shame on you) the Thunderbolts (that's the original Zemo team) get a cameo in JLA-Avengers #3. But you really ought to be buying it regardless. :)

[WakandaMan]

Awesome! Can't wait to get it. Unfortunately I haven't even got #2 yet. I have to go to Melbourne to get my comics. Ironically I was on my way there last night when my car broke down. :surprised :cry:

Ah well...just have to try again soon

Thanks for the info TB!

[WakandaMan]

This weeks Thunderbolts is up for review in Dreams and Desires. It's that Element of Doom look-a-like, Charcoal (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71514) -the Burning Man!

[Bob]

Just curious to see what folks thought about the new Moonstone sculpt. This is personally my favorite costume of Karla's. I wasn't a big fan of the original yellow and white with the gladiator style helmet and I really don't like the black and white, jacket style that she has now after receiving the second.

And what about the others? MACH I, II, or III? Songbird I, II, OR Mimi? Green Fixer jumpsuit, human Techno (hair), robot Techno, or Fixer (bald)? And how do you want Baron Zemo - mask or no mask, old costume or new?

Just some questions to think about...

[WakandaMan]

I like this one, but I really prefer the costume she had immediately after that one which she changed to in issue #12. It is quite similar, with the same gold and copper colour scheme, but it looks a lot more streamlined and balanced. Defintely my favourite. I'm planning on modding my Vet Moonstone (when I get one) into that cosutme. I'm not a fan of either of the yellow ones, but I prefer her original one to the one she wore while she was counselling Graviton. I actually liked the Double-gem one though. Kinda cool.

As for the others, I really like ALL of Fixer's looks, but the Robotic one would be totally innappropriate for a REV.

Songbird- definitely her first T-bolt costume. I didn't like Songbird version 2 much. Only slightly different I know, but not nearly as nice as her original carapace. Screaming Mimi is not even worht considering. Blechh!

The MACHs are tricky, but I think he spent more issues in the MACH-I armour than any other, so probably that one. Either that or the MACH-III just because it is SO COOL. :cool: The second seemed quite short lived.

Zemo needs to be in his classic duds. By far his coolest look, although it'd be nice if the sculpt had sheathed sword as well as a pistol. I love that cover near the end of their run which features just him looking out over the masses grinning in his classic duds. Can't say I care much for his "new look". It's nice for a temporary change, but he needs to get Fixer to make up his classic one again (far as I can tell all his old costumes have been trashed).

[WakandaMan]

Hey guys, I've made stats for Moonstone that fit the "official" point costs exactly, but represent her much better. I'm planning to use them to change the inside stats in my figs without having to mess around with the dial top. Check them out- they're on the end of my Moonstone creation thread (click the link in my sig if you want a shortcut)

[The Charlatan]

Zemo- classic costume, but see Wizard # 147 for a view of his new costume from the upcoming Avengers Vs Thunderbolts. But avoid like the plague the version of him from the 'Queer Eye for the Super-Guy' article in that same issue!!!!!
Songbird- first version of her costume, the second is only a minor change anyway
MACH 1/2/3- MACH 1 is fine
Techno- bald version

And for the record, I like the smooth version of her Thunderbolts costume best, but it's not a strong preferance.

[Bob]

Since I started this, I might as well share my opinion.

First of all, I just realized I forgot Jolt. It's a slight preference, but I think I would want the electric blue version of her.

Fixer - gotta go with the bald Fixer at the end of the T-Bolts run.

MACH - Again, slight preference, but I like the MACH III version.

Songbird - while I loved the Mimi cover, I need to have a Songbird sculpt. Slight preference to 2nd version.

Atlas - can't see them making the Erik/Dallas version as anything but a unique. I was looking back at some of my issues and noticed that 90% of the time it looked like Erik's shoulder pads.ruffles.whatever were tore. Not sure if this was the design or if was to designate damage. Anyway, I prefer the clean look.

Zemo - I really like the old, standard, MoE version of his costume. The sketch from Wizard looks very promising, though. And I definitely want a Citizen V version to represent him.

[WakandaMan]

Jolt- no not electric blue! Give me her "classic" look (seems strange saying that for such a relatively new character).

By the way, I've now put my version of Hawkeye (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72610) up for review. Check him out!

[Bob]

Like I said, the electric blue version was a slight preference - I could be swayed either way...

Good job with Hawkeye - here is a character that really does deserve a re-do.

[Thunderbolts]

AWESOME new preview of the mini up at ComiXfan.

http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24247

Moonstone looks fair different, though.... and Dallas is confirmed to be Vantage.

I love the art.

[Bob]

Congrats on the win, hunderbolts!

I was a little concerned with who they would pick for the artist on this. I was SOOO disappointed with the art on the 2nd Citizen V mini. But I checked out the preview for this and Kitson looks like he'll do a great job.

I can hardly wait til March!

[WakandaMan]

Yeah, I'm salivating already. I wouldn't say the art is brilliant (I still miss Bagley) but it's fairly decent. What I'm most excited about is that it's being written by BOTH Fabes and Kurt! How cool is that?! And having them face off against the Avengers agains should be lots of fun, as well as helping sales a bit too. Hope Black Panther is in the line-up (my other favourite recently-cancelled book).

I got a REV of Moonstone in the mail today! Yipee! Now I just need a second REV that I can fix the dials on. ;) I painted the E with Gold and Metallic Red paint, and she looks a million times better. The sculpt is really nice, it's just the paint jobs that are letting them down. She was tricky to paint though.

I also put up my Plant man/Blackheath (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73785) dial for review at long last. Tell me what you think.

[Bob]

Originally posted by WakandaMan
I got a REV of Moonstone in the mail today! Yipee! Now I just need a second REV that I can fix the dials on. ;) I painted the E with Gold and Metallic Red paint, and she looks a million times better. The sculpt is really nice, it's just the paint jobs that are letting them down. She was tricky to paint though.

Let us know if you get a pic of this. I, for one, would like to see how it turned out.

[Thunderbolts]

I reccommend using a paint removing method to get the base sculpt before painting over. They're actually very nicely detailed underneath. (Well, the Inifnity figs were, so I assume the rest are)

I plan to get one 'Stone fig pro painted and put her on whichever base I'm using that day. She can go on the Le KArla Sofen base when I get it. When. Not if. ;p

Oh, and thanks Bob. :)

[WakandaMan]

It really does look great. I plan to mod a Vet into her sleek gold and red costume (post-issue 12) which I prefer, and a R into her classic MoE Gold and White look.

One day I'll get around to taking digital photos of my mods so I can show people.... :p I'll let you know if I do of course.

[Glorfindel]

I had a look at WakandaMan's Moonstone mod last night. I have to say it looks incredible!! I was very jealous. I will most definately have to repaint mine the same, only it looks like it would have taken hours to do!

[Bob]

Comics Continuum has a preview for March comics. It includes covers for the first and second Avengers/Thunderbolts mini. Here is the link:
http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0312/22/marvelindex.htm.

[SonofVader]

Hey, guys, wanted to post here real quick. I just wanted to say that because of your raving about Thunderbolts, I picked up multiple issues online (most of the run until issue 30... missing, I think, 3 books). Absolutely amazed.

[SonofVader]

Oh, and thanks. One of my favorite comic runs ever.

[Bob]

Originally posted by SonofVader
Oh, and thanks. One of my favorite comic runs ever.

We're always happy to see a new fan. If you'd like to see more Thunderbolts, plan to pick up the Avengers vs. Thunderbolts mini-series coming up in March.. Rumor is if it generates enough interest, the T-Bolts may get their own book again.

Feel free to stop by anytime! WakandaMan has been posting some homemade dials for the Thunderbolts members that are really interesting.

[SonofVader]

Can do. Definately planning on picking up the mini (as well as getting the rest of the good issues... it goes up to, what, 70 something before it gets bad?).

[Thunderbolts]

1-12 is definitely the best time for the T-Bolts. If you want a list of titles from that time, they are...

Hulk #449 (debut)
Tales Of the MU #1
T-Bolts #1-3
Spider-Man Team-Up #7
T-Bolts #4
T-Bolts Annual '97
T-Bolts #5-8
Heroes For Hire #7
T-Bolts #9
Heroes Reborn: The Return #2
T-Bolts #10-12

I left out 3 panel appearances like Hulk 450, Amazing Spider-man 430 and so on, just the important issues.

Where it 'gets bad' is a matter of opinion. Becoming Heroes/Becoming Villains isn't too popular, starts in about #62 or so. The series ends with #75 and becomes the lame fight club plot in #76.

[SonofVader]

Originally posted by Thunderbolts
Becoming Heroes/Becoming Villains isn't too popular, starts in about #62 or so. The series ends with #75 and becomes the lame fight club plot in #76.

Don't know about either of these. Does it actually become a different comic at 76? And what on earth is Becoming Heroes/ Becoming Villains?

[Bob]

Originally posted by SonofVader
Don't know about either of these. Does it actually become a different comic at 76? And what on earth is Becoming Heroes/ Becoming Villains?

Basically, Marvel gave us the shaft at Thunderbolts #76 by abandoning the real Thunderbolts and turned the comic into a "supervillain fight club". Instead of starting a new title, they tried to sneek in this new junk under the Thunderbolts name and ended up ticking off a LOT of fans. I cancelled my subscription right away. The series died after 6 issues.

Becoming Heroes/ Becoming Villains is actually 2 story lines occurring at the same time. Without spoiling too much for you, the team got split off with half ending up becoming heroes on Counter Earth and the other half being on the run from the law on "Marvel" Earth. It came out with 2 issues per month, alternating between the counter earth and marvel earth stories. Like Thunderbolts said, it starts around issue 62 or so and winds up in 74 and 75.

[SonofVader]

Thanks, Bob. TBolts fanboyism notwithstanding, are the last 6 issues that terrible? Or is it just everyone getting mad at Marvel for screwing them over?

[Thunderbolts]

I didn't read it on principle. Not to mention the fact the text on the front cover was practically self-parody. 'Marvel Comics For Real Men!' 'I endorse this book! - Kurt Busiek, Tbolts creator' etc. If that didn't make it sound desperate as hell, what would? People voted with their money, and the new direction absolutely bombed, which just goes to show you can't entirely change a book's concept and cast and have people still care.

And uh yeah, I probably should have been less cryptic on Becoming Heroes/Villains, heh.

[Bob]

I (unfortunately) received the first issue (76) before my subscription was cancelled. The story was OK - it may or may not have had a chance on its own. But the art absolutely stunk! Armadillo was one of the fighters and I would have never recognized him if they didn't call him by name.

[admironheart]

mY FAVORITE ISSUES were when Hawkeye joined the T-bolts
!!

[admironheart]

I thought the story line went downhill probably before Issue #50.

Hawkeye comes across as this confident leader type. Then he bumbles and stumbles as a leader. This is out of character from his first dozen or so issues with the team.

AND with his leadership experiences as a West Coast Avenger all those years.

AND then the pretty bad Solo Avengers title that had Hawkeye in forever explored most of his personality. ANd his 2 mini-series...especially the latter one with the Wolf sidekick.

He went from a strong focal point for the team to another unstable orbiting member.

The first 12 issues had a stable Baron zemo...and the orbiting characters of the T-bolts...we all knew where Zemo stood. but what about the rest of the team?

With Hawkeye, we all knew where the team's center of gravity stood....but what about the individuals in the team?

Then someone got the 'bright' idea to 'explore' hawkeye's personallity [ignoring 30+ years with the Avengers, West Coast Avengers, Defenders, Mini series, and Solo Avengers titles] and mess him up and make an incompetant leader of him.

Hence the team no longer had a center...which was the success of the title for the first few years!

The last issues were not that bad, by comparison to the last couple years in any event....just not in the same vein as the first 2+ years.

I still need about 10 issues to complete my collection. I never heard of the T-bolts till this past summer and read an issue a day till I finished the series....It made a T-bolt fan out of this long time Avengers fan.

wes

ps.: I had not bought or read a comic since 1991 when I sold my collections....and It was a very refreshing title!!

[WakandaMan]

Armadillo is an actual character? I thought they made it up?

Well I got #76....I always like to give things a chance. I was totally horrified. It became a completely different book... one of those grim and gritty books with a few very ocscure characters in it, and some scantily dressed women.

If they had've given it a different title then it would have been fine. Those kinds of comics really do exist out there, they're just not the style that I read, and probably the same with most Tbolts fans. Tbolts was a fairly light-hearted but thought provoking book, and it attracted a fan base accordingly.

I actually thought the Becoming Heroes/Becoming Villians arc was good. It was just a bit annoying cutting between the two story lines. I especially liked the Hawkeye half though...introduced some cool characters and developed some that hadn't been touched on much.

[Thunderbolts]

I'm not sure, but I think Armadillo is one of the villains the Thunderbolts beat up at the Vault in Annual '97, during the bit where they free Moonstone and beat up a bunch of no-namers in the process.

[WakandaMan]

Well Hawkeye's shift from the stable center of the team to a confused "orbiting" type like the rest of them (which is just how I like my T-bolts to be btw) can easily be explained in one word:- Moonstone. :grin:

She's just such a ...well... perplexing individual. :p

Even Zemo has started to become unstable now Wes.

Great to have another T-bolts fan in the ranks Vader! There's still plenty of characters not taken if you'd like to join our clan. :cool: :classic:

[Bob]

Originally posted by WakandaMan
Armadillo is an actual character? I thought they made it up?

Yep - he goes way back to Captain America #3O8. At one time I thought he might be an OK candidate for the Thunderbolts. There is a nice write up on him at the Marvel Directory web site if you would like to know more (http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/a/armadillo.htm).

[WakandaMan]

Just to let you know, Zemo (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75329) is up and online. :cool:

Merry Christmas and Happy New Years all T-bolts fans

[Thunderbolts]

Since we haven't had a post for a while, I shall report that LE dr. Karla Sofen is now mine. MINE.

Now for the less enviable task of getting a Clint Barton LE, then I am completely up to date on T-Bolts characters released thus far.

Anyway.... anyone want to play a forum game using Wakandaman's T-Bolts stats? I do. As them or against them, I don't care. :)

[IamHellboy]

hey, can i be jolt?

[Thunderbolts]

Oops. Bringing attention to this thread got it shunted into the dead zone.

....death to clans!

:( ?

[WakandaMan]

Hey that would be very cool Tbolts. I'd love to do that....

I'm going to be releasing villians stats too once i get through all the members (which there is surprisingly a lot of).

Apparently clans are supposed to live in Another Realm. I got a PM from RavenP telling me that he was moving it here. At least they still show up in the main page from here.

Congrats an getting Sofen. I am green with envy ;)

And Hellboy, we do alreasy have a Jolt (Donner, although he hasn't posted in a while). I'll check and see which characters aren't taken,

[WakandaMan]

For Hellboy's benefit (and anyone else who may be interested in joining) I just went back and checked our clan's current membership. Here it is-

Current member line-up:

Atlas: Wakandaman
MACH-III: RavenProject
Techno (robotic): Thunderbolts
Moonstone: maveric28
Fixer (human): Bob
Hawkeye: PaladinKWA
Charcoal: Glorfindel
Scourge: The Charlatan
Citizen V (Watkins): CosmicBeing
Jolt: Donner
Citizen V (Zemo): GreatArelius1
Baron Zemo: admironheart

Open positions:

MACH-I
MACH-II
Songbird
Ogre
Blackheath
Amazon
Skein
Harrier
Cyclone
Smuggler
Beetle
Meteorite
Scream
Vantage (Dallas Riordan)


By the way Tbolts- how did you get your Karla? I'd like to hear the story.

[Bob]

Originally posted by WakandaMan
For Hellboy's benefit (and anyone else who may be interested in joining) I just went back and checked our clan's current membership. Here it is-

Current member line-up:

Atlas: Wakandaman
MACH-III: RavenProject
Techno (robotic): Thunderbolts
Moonstone: maveric28
Fixer (human): Bob
Hawkeye: PaladinKWA
Charcoal: Glorfindel
Scourge: The Charlatan
Citizen V (Watkins): CosmicBeing
Jolt: Donner
Citizen V (Zemo): GreatArelius1
Baron Zemo: admironheart

Open positions:

MACH-I
MACH-II
Songbird
Ogre
Blackheath
Amazon
Skein
Harrier
Cyclone
Smuggler
Beetle
Meteorite
Scream
Vantage (Dallas Riordan)


With our tease about the upcoming mini, we she add "and a player to be named at a later date"...

[WakandaMan]

Yeah I wonder who that will be? Perhaps an Avengers member will change sides by the end? Wonder man has the history for it, and isn't involved in their regular line-up either.

Do you suppose they may have just been referring to Vantage? She's kinda new.

[Bob]

From the way the interview with Kurt B. was worded, I don't think they were referring to Vantage. Here;s a quote from him (http://www.comicon.com/cgi-bin/pulse.cgi?http%3A//www.comicon.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi%3Fubb%3Dget_topic%26f%3D36%26t%3D001723):

"When asked for a rundown of who's who on each side, Busiek wouldn't reveal all the secrets in store, but did name "On the Avengers side, I think so far we've used Cap, Iron Man, Hawkeye, Wanda, the Vision, Yellowjacket and the Wasp. On the T-Bolts' side -- Zemo, Moonstone, Atlas, Vantage, Fixer, Blackheath and Songbird, with a look-in on MACH-3. Plus their new mystery member, of course. Whether we'll see others -- on either side -- remains to be seen."

And Fabian's hint to the character is "radiation", so that could mean any number of people. I'm leaning toward Sandman, but I guess we will just have to wait until March. I just hope that by adding a new member, that they don't get rid of Songbird and send her to the Avengers...

[WakandaMan]

Radiation eh? Perhaps Nuklo of the V-battallion! I've always liked that character.

Actually I was thinking, I could see Wonder Man joining the T-bolts, given his history and the fact that he's not active in the Avengers at the moment.

I wouldn't be upset if Songird switched to the Avengers- at least we would get a Tbolt in a monthly mag again!

[Bob]

I've always liked Wonder Man, so he'd be a welcome addition. And I'm still holding out wanting to keep Songbird on the T-Bolts and hope Marvel does the right thing and brings back the Thunderbolts to a monthly mag!

[WakandaMan]

Skein (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=784339) is now up for review. Tricky character.

Hey Tbolts, how did you get Dr. Sofen- I really want to know? It's porbably just a boring story, like Ebay or something, but I'm just curious.

Bob, do you know any more detail on the rights to Charcoal? IIt sounds bizzare.

[admironheart]

Here is a link to my latest mod

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jhaden65/lst?.dir=/Masters+of+Evil+clix&.view=t


She was a tough one, but I am happy with her for the most part

later

wes

[WakandaMan]

She looks great admironheart! I'll be posting Man-killer's dial pretty soon. I really like your MoE mods.

Have to get around to finishing that Man-Ape one....

[shock man x]

Are you guys still taking members?

[WakandaMan]

Absolutely. Check out the available characters in post 156 (back just a little bit) and you're more than welcome. IamHellboy was going to join too....wonder what happened to him? Maybe he's just not online a lot.

[Bob]

Originally posted by shock man x
Are you guys still taking members?

The more the merrier I say! Hopefully the Thunderbolts are generating enough fans that Marvel will bring back their own monthly mag.

Welcome aboard shock man!

[admironheart]

If they bring back the Thunderbolt comics in a monthly format,
Do you think the older issues will rise in value?
I still need 4,12,24,37,and 44!

latere dudes

wes

[shock man x]

Great, loved the T-Bolts and have been trying to make a good MOE team since it came out.

I'll take Blackheath.

[WakandaMan]

Cool! Welcome aboard Blackheath!

I've been working on trying to use the MoE TA lately....might have finally come up with a tourney playable team with it. I'll let you guys know once I've finalised it.

admironheart: Bummer man, missing issue 12 would really suck. I guess they might go up- but who cares! We'd have monthly T-bolts back again! :classic:

[shock man x]

Here's what I'm trying in the next tourney.

E-Taskmaster (Zemo)
E-Doombot (Beetle)
R-Moonstone
V-Whirlwind
E-Yellowjacket
R-Mandroid Armor
R-Mandroid Armor
V-Paramedic

300pts

I think it may work especially if I turtle long enough to bring them to me.

[WakandaMan]

Time to update the member list then-

Current members:

Atlas: Wakandaman
MACH-III: RavenProject
Techno (robotic): Thunderbolts
Moonstone: maveric28
Fixer (human): Bob
Hawkeye: PaladinKWA
Charcoal: Glorfindel
Scourge: The Charlatan
Citizen V (Watkins): CosmicBeing
Jolt: Donner
Citizen V (Zemo): GreatArelius1
Baron Zemo: admironheart
Blackheath: shock man x

Open positions:

MACH-I
MACH-II
Songbird
Ogre
Vantage (Dallas Riordan)
Amazon
Skein
Harrier
Cyclone

Smuggler (Conrad Josten)
Beetle (Leila Davis)
Meteorite (Valerie Barnhardt)
Scream

Mr. Immortal
Big Bertha
Flatman
Doorman
Dinah Sore

(I forgot about the Lightning Rods last time I listed the open positions. I also listed the Redeemers' real names to avoid confusion, since there have been alternate characters with those names)

...and one more mystery member to be announced. ;)

Anyone ever noticed the large proportion of female characters in the T-bolts? It's got to be better than any other comic team around. Going by my list here, and not counting multiple names for the same character twice, I get 14 males, 10 females and 2 neutrals (robo-techno and scream). It's late here though, so I may have counted wrong.

[WakandaMan]

E Tasky is definitely the closest to Zemo around at the moment.

You could say that Whirlwind is Cyclone as well.

I like your team. Has decent potential.

[shock man x]

Just so you know, I played the team. They have a low AV and I can't set up the MoE thing too many times. That said, it can win. It just takes a lot of patience in playing and carful attacks.

Thought you'd all like to know.

[WakandaMan]

Thanks for letting us know shock man.

I played a team using Taskmaster, Spiral and V Whirlwind last night hoping to get to use the MoE TA....not a chance....
Whirlwind got KO'ed in a flash, and the rest of my team got stomped as well...

I was up against a Magneto, being enhanced by a Psylocke and with AV boosted by LE Elektra though...

For my next tournament I'm probably going to play a team called "Is there a Doctor in the House?" They are all very "grey" type characters- the sort that one can never quite tell if they are good or bad:

E Meteorite (Naturally. I have to use the one Thunderbolt we've been given so far, even if her dial is wrong)
V Doc Samson (As a Hulk adversary/ally, he's not really a clear cut hero is he? Having to do with the Hulk does that to most people)
R Dr. Strange (He's, well, mysterious....terribly mysterious)
R Dr. Octopus (Otto has teamed up with the good guys on a number of occassions)
R Paramedic (Jane is the most clear cut good guy of the lot).
R Scarlet Witch (with her brotherhood affiliation, she wavers right on the line)

All of them are some kind of doctor except for Wanda. I wanted to use Jean Grey for TK, but I refuse to play tourneys without PC anymore, and I couldn't bear to lose Karla or Strange. Besides, Jean is only a doc in the movies anyway.

[admironheart]

here is a link to my Dr. Karla Sofen mod

ther REAL moonstone

BAD, BAD, BAD...that is how I like her !!!

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79404

thanks for looking

wes

[Bob]

I was too excited and had to share. I was cruising ebay looking to get my hands on Moonstone. I found the R/E/V and bid - I ended up winning with a bid of $0.80 and $2.00 s/h. Less than a buck a piece and that included shipping and handling. Just got them in the mail today. That's all for now!

[WakandaMan]

Aw man...I got my REV Moonstone off of E-bay too, but I certainly paid a lot more for her than that.

Anywho, Amazon (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79730) is now up. Go check her out- I think she's pretty darn cool.

[Thunderbolts]

I paid about $10 for Moonstone just so I could post her stats on HCRealms. I got her the Saturday before CM came out - some gouger was selling them at the monthly comic mart and I couldn't help myself. (gouger with no idea on what's valuable - they had all CM Uniques for a flat $20 no matter who it was. The Surfer's had all gone by the time I got there, though)

Anyway, the long overdue uninteresting story of how I got Dr. Sofen.... my begging in my old sig got enough attention that someone eventually offered her for sale for $40, so I took it. Ultimate_Thor is my hero. Of course, I feel a bit bad that she's selling for $80 on eBay, but weeks ago her price was around $40-50. Seems to be going up though as she's a con-only fig.

Never going to use her or anything, but it made me happy, so what the heck. Now I just need the Hawkeye LE, who's value seems to be on the rise too (gah, why, he's even worse than before in the new rules).

Anyway WKM, when your Infinity Gauntlet huge game wraps up, you wanna play your T-Bolt dials versus some villains? Best way to test them is versus established character rather than other custom dials, and the T-Bolts did fight smatterings of everyone in their time at Mt. charteris, it seems.

[WakandaMan]

Well yeah that is true, it's a good idea to play them against current figures for an initial test. I'm also playing a silver age game at the same time, so once that finishes the Infinity Gauntlet one should have slowed down enough that I'll be ready to play.

I'm definitely up for it, and don't mind going either the 'bolts or the villians....who would be appropriate I wonder...

Klaw obviously. Who else currently exists as a clix that they fought? Be good not to have to try and substitute other figures, but I'm not sure if it's possible.

Maybe we should just prelude go a classic Thunderbolts vs. Avengers match? Or we could pit them against a different incarnation of the MoE, using available figs.

BTW, Cyclone (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81196) is now up in Dreams and Desires as well.

[WakandaMan]

Actually, a Thunderbolts vs. X-men fight would be interesting. They're both misunderstodd teams, and since they haven't met before, the X-men would most likely think of them as bad guys, giving them good motivation for fighting each other. As long as Archangel isn't in the line up of course.

I haven't made an X-men team before (And don't worry, I don't own a Nightcrawler, and I prefer not to use figs in online games that I don't own). How many points would you like to play?

I'm going to put up a re-done Atlas shortly- Bat Sentry size instead of a Big Fig, so he would probably be better to use. I like my new version a lot better , because he gets to change TA and name through his REV. It's also a much better representation of him. Trying to fit him into an appropriate Big Fig points scale was very limiting.

[Thunderbolts]

For those T-Bolts folks who haven't heard the latest, there's speculation right now that Baron Zemo is on the box of the new 'Ultimates' boosters that were seen at Toy Fair. He's rumoured to be the fig underneath Ghost Rider. Though it's a blurry image at best and difficult to make out, the purple with gold trim on the head would suggest Zemo. He's not wearing his purple duds though, they seem to be more like his Counter-Earth clothes.

I'm not entirely convinced it's him, but here's hoping. Others have speculated it's Living Laser, Unicorn or Molecule Man.

[WakandaMan]

If it is him, I really hope he's in his classic duds. The counter-earth costume was okay for then, but it's not Zemo. I guess if he is in his Counter-Earth costume his V will probably get the Avengers TA- how controversial!

Could it possibly be his costume for the new series?

[Bob]

I wouldn't mind seeing the new costume - as long as he is still wearing the mask.

But we also NEED the classic costume. That's a must for greatest leader of the MoE ever! Egghead?!? Don't make me laugh...although I would like a Justine Hammer Crimson Cowl.

[WakandaMan]

There's also specualtion that it could be the Wrecker, Ultimate Iron Man, the Melter or a different Spider-man (although we've got confirmation of a flying spidey). He does appear to have a pinkish head with a little yellow on it to me, so I'm 90% certain it's Zemo. He does appear to be in the counter-earth costume, as his lower half is dark (and possibly blue-ish?)

I'll be happy if they give us a new addition to the T-bolts roster with every expansion. It'll certainly keep me buying.

[WakandaMan]

Finally, I've posted my revamped Atlas (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82839) as a Bat Sentry sized figure. I'm MUCH happier with this dial over the original- a lot closer fit.

[WakandaMan]

In case anyone is interested, my Doctor team kicked butt at the tournament last night, stomping all over the opposition. In the first two rounds I KO'ed every figure on the oppossing teams bar one, while none of mine were lost.

The final round was much closer. Ulik smacked around Meteorite, while Doc Samson had his Invul outwitted by Kraven, and Archangel charged him doing three clicks (is is just me, or is it just wrong that Archangel has 3 damage?). Thankfully I was aple to run them both back to my Paramedic and heal them to full. Samson then charged his Kraven, KOing him in one hit, and it was all downhill from there.

That V Samson is incredible! I managed to do an 8 damage attack with him at one point- natural 4, perplexed to 5, using a heavy object, and rolled a critical hit!

Prize support didn't come in in time, so no idea what I won yet. :ermm:

[Thunderbolts]

Fingers crossed you win a Dr. Sofen (yeah, unlikely but tell them you're sick of the T-bolts bias and you deserve one), because paying for it sucked!

:)

[Glorfindel]

Nope, I recieved the Prize Support just then, no Carla Sofen.

[shock man x]

Hey guys, I played in a game yesterday and can honestly say that the Masters of Evil team ability is what won it for me. I played that team I posted a while back.

Just thought I'd mention that the MoE TA won for me, and I used it at least three times in the ten turn round limit that we had.

Now if we was only allowed to use powers in those attacks.

[WakandaMan]

Great to hear that Shock man. And what do you mean- you can't use powers with the MoE TA.....I would've thoguht you could.

I can see the argument for not being able to use a "Power action", but there are plenty of powers which use "Close Combat Actions", such as BCF. That should work fine with it.

[shock man x]

Actually BCF is about the only power that works with the team ability. Other than that you can't use Power Actions, Close Combat Actions, or Range Combat Actions since the MoE TA is an action to activate and the action only allows attacks. Super Strength and BCF work and are what I used to give some big hits at the begining. Nothing more deadly than Moonstone and a lamp post.

[admironheart]

Actually you cannot use BCF with MoE ability. read the pac.
It states that if you have a close combat action { or something like that}you can use it. Which MoE does not give you.

Steal Energy is a power that works with the MoE. Forgot about SS...

so 2 whole powers work with MoE now.

I hope they decide to fix this as it is on the table in the Wizkids Judges forum I hear

later
wes

[Grappler]

Could it be the original Zemo, Heinrich. He wore a green jumpsuit.

[shock man x]

Okay that's it, I give up on the MOE TA.

It needs to be reworked. It's usless, absolutly useless.

[WakandaMan]

Actually, I'm not convinced. I just checked the PAC and it doesn't even say that it needs to be a close combat action- just that the members both need to be adjacent to an opposing character. So going by that, one could even use RCE (assuming you're a flyer) or any other power at all that is a form of attack (eg. not Barrier).

Still even if this is true, I hope that Wizkids does do something to fix this TA. What bites the most is that it is actually the most expensive Marvel TA! I don't know who did their original point costing, but whoever it is surely didn't like the Masters much. :confused: :knockedou

[admironheart]

The thing about the MoE TA is that it breaks all the rules!

You have to be given an ACTION.
Free, Close or Ranged Action, Power or Move.

The MoE bypasses the Action step and gives An ATTACK either Close or Ranged. All the powers in the PAC {except for a few} mention that the figure must be given one action type or another. So the MoE DOES NOT give any action type.

Thereby nulling any power except Steal Energy and Now Super Strength which require NO actions....just an Attack type.

Now hold on....Most Judges and even Dr. G. believe that this is not how the TA was designed and it is being addressed by the game designers

fyi

wes

[WakandaMan]

I went and checked out the Judges forum at Wizkids, and I couldn't find any discussion on it there. So I'm wondering how you came by this info Wes? If so, then I couldn't be happier.

Actually when the game was first introduced- way back in the early IC days, the description on the Wizkids site made me believe that it could be used at range as well- ie. the MoE's needed to be adjacent to each other, but not to the opponent. That could've been due to my poor understanding of the rules back then, but if it was the case, then it would be significantly better.

In any case, the idea that powers can't be used with it is rubbish.

[GreatArelius1]

Well me and judge discussed the MoE/IJ team ability last week at a tourny. I was using three IJers. We came to the conslusion after reading the FAQ that as long as two members of the IJ were adjacent to the target, any other IJ adjacent to them were allowed to make an attack vs the target if able. Power included. But thats just how we preceived it.

[admironheart]

Hey Wakandaman...

The subject is an old one. I have been retired for a while, but last month on the Wizkids Rules forum I brought this to the attention of the judges and several judges gave me the info.

Last night Shock Man X asked this question again on HCRealms rules forum to check my response from here:

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84356

As you can see many judges are in err as well, That is one reason I pointed it out on the Wizkids site over a month ago.

It is useless now. and I am confident that it will be fixed in some way soon!!

later
wes

[shock man x]

hope you don't mind me getting a second oppinion admironheart. I just like getting third, fourth, ect... opinions on something, especially when it comes to heroclix rules. :)

I think I'm going to start a petition to get the MOE TA reworded and redone. I really think they mean for it to be giving a close or range combat action to the MoEs using the ability. Thats why they don't define the action being given in the MOE description.

This has been an issue for a while and I just want them to do something about it.

[admironheart]

I agree.
I like the old MoE when you could attack more than the first opponent fig if he was ko'd.

I understand that the ability is to represent the group ganging up on the victim....and with that in mind:

I wish that only 1 of the MoE would actually have to be in base to base.
I wish that you can use any Power, Close, or Ranged combat action
I wish that all attacks would be simultaneously. This would make every attacking figure need to hit the original defensive value, but that all the damage would be combined and then Toughness, Inv, etc would kick in.
Super Senses would still work vs each individual Attack...I am just thinking about Damage Dealt

What do you think?

anything to make it better

later
wes

[WakandaMan]

Great ideas. The cumulative damage one is interesting- could be both good and bad, depending on the starting defense value. It would #### to do that against Firelord or Nightcrawler only to miss. I think I'd probably prefer the attacks to be individual, although that is a very clever way to get past Invulnerability. What would happen against Impervious though, since Super Senses is seperate?

How about making the attacks seperate, but damage reduction powers can only be used against the FIRST attack made using the TA?

I was thinking the easiest fix would be to allow the simultaneous attack even if none of the Masters are in B2B. Puts it in line with it's cost, and much more playable (kinda like a cross between Syndicate and Leadership).

[Thunderbolts]

ONLY FOUR MORE DAYS!!!!

:) :( :o :grin: ;) :p :cool: :rolleyes: :mad: *snip the extra ones that prevented me posting*

Meanwhile, I propose admironheart be fired for trying to offload his Moonstone Le in the trades forum.

I jest.... but he is doing it. There you go, free publicity.

Meanwhile meanwhile.... we could get a T-Bolts team in 'Ultimates.' We won't, but we _might_....

[Thunderbolts]

Oh yeah... there's a 4 page preview up at comics continuum, along with the front cover. The old skool logo is back! Die Fight Club Bolts!

[admironheart]

bah Zemo has no use for a trickster like Dr. Karla...she will talk your head off and dupe you faster than eastern european gypsy trash.

My bloodlines have no use for insuppordinates {or gypsies}who 'think'...they need only follow my orders!!

hahahahah

;)
wes

[WakandaMan]

Hey guys, Harrier (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84836) is now posted in Dreams and Desires.

I'm not going to get Thunderbolts vs. Avengers for at least 5-6 days after it comes out :cry: So rather than banning you guys from talking about it over that time, I'll just avoid this thread after the 10th until I get my issue. The horror of living in a town with no comic shop continues.....

...well at least the local newsagents are improving lately on their comic lines.

Her admironheart...you really want 5 Uniques/LE's for her?! Wowsers. I take it that you've already got a Samandehl Rey?

[admironheart]

well she is going for around $45 on ebay.

Angelus is about $19
Shi is $6+
Hecate is $10+
and the mail aways are less than $10

So that is about a $50+ for my $45...and those who spent the out of pocket for the mail aways actually will have spent closer to $5 for them...so that comes to an equitable $45 for $45
Maybe I won't get that, but I got 5 decent Marvel uniques for my Bruce Banner and all I want for the lower value Karla is the less sought after Indy stuff.

I already got a few offers of the $26 value Samandehl Rey for my $45 Karla....
When I make an offer to folks I shoot for about 10-15% lower and then raise it if neccessary. When I ask for a trade like this I shoot for a 10-15% increase in value and lower if as neccessary. I try to be fair...I find it rediculous when I see folks offer less than half price trades on that forum. Folks should not try to rip anyone off and only offer fair values...not as much as you can get.

hmmm...I has someone offer to buy/trade for my mods. I doubt that I will.
Question: Most mods take 3-4 figures of nons{mage knight/heroclix} to create. a couple hours to assemble and 3-4 hours to paint.
So a nice mod would be worth how much in a trade? I know this depends on the quality and desire of the parties, but what would YOU trade for a mod that you really liked?

later
wes

[WakandaMan]

I don't think I could bear to part with any Mod I have made- there is just too much of myself put into them. That's the problem with trying to evaluate them- it's not just a matter of time and resource, but rather, how much is it worth to you personally as well.

I tend not to look at figs at all on a monetary scale anyway, but rather, how much is it worth to me. To convince me to trade a mod I would need to be offered figures that I have been long seeking after, and really want (eg. Martian Manhunter, Amazo, Savage Hulk....). It's all about what you value yourself. Is it the money? The characters? The playability? For most people it's a combination of those things, but to what degrees? So trades that I offer may be well below in $$ or well above, I wouldn't really know- the same could go for others as well.

How about Samandehl Rey AND Eclipso as well? I'm not at all emotionally attached to that DC fig (never read anything with him in). As far as Playability goes, the LE Moonstone isn't all that crash hot. The E is quite a bit better for only 2 points extra (thanks once again to the MoE TA). But I guess if I want to play a MoE team she's a better choice that the R with it's lousy attack, and the phasing at the end is nice too.

I really need to take some pics of my mods to share with you guys.

[admironheart]

I agree with you exactly. Most mods I put so much of myself and my interpretation of the figure into the piece that I find a true Unique, unlike even a Nightcrawlerer where you know there are thousands out there to be had at some point.

I too would only trade a mod if I wanted a certain piece badly and only if I thought I could recreate it again.

thanks
wes

[shock man x]

Just read Avengers/Thunderbolts #1 and have to say the plot is very interesting. Seems Zemo is a full up good guy until the very last page, and then it may not be him but just a flaw in his plan. Can't tell, so I'll need #2 (like i wasn't gonna buy it anyway.)

And It will be Zemo in Ultimates as he's wearing the outfit on the box in this comic.

Anyone else read it yet?

[admironheart]

no, but thanks for the Zemo clix update.

Now is it his old costume {please, please please}, one of the later T-bolts costumes or something else? {iddi he have an Ultimate version??}

later
wes

[shock man x]

I believe it will be an update of the counter earth costume. It's the same one on the box that he is wearing in the Avengers/Thunderbolts. It has the old head and some purple but not the classic one.

[shock man x]

They changed the MOE team ability, it's useful now. Whirlwind can flurry, taskmaster can use blades. Still can't use RCE or CCE, but hey, thats only two you can't use.

Life is good for MoEs and I think they'll become one of the top notch teams around.

[Glorfindel]

When I judge tournaments, I will allow CCE & RCE to be used as well. Makes the team nearly worth the cost you pay for it. Not quite, but nearly.

[WakandaMan]

The MoE change is only minor though. The still need a more drastic improvement.

Wow, I just got Avengers vs. Thunderbolts #1, and it was great! No good to read about the old crew again.

I like Vantage's costume (maybe a little overboard on the V's though). I don't like the A on Atlas' forehead or arm- the old costume was better for him. Zemo looks interesting. Moonstone looks okay- not my favourite costume for her, but not the worst either. It is wierd to be able to see her eyes though. Songbird looks better (although her changes are very minor), and Fixer looks exactly the same.

As for the story, I'm intrigued by project Liberator- especially that it was Moonstone's idea. Still not sure on Zemo's status as a good guy or bad guy, but I certainly don't trust him. It was nice having him narrate the story, and what they've been up to seems very clever.

I really don't think he should classify Fixer as one of the most duplicitious on the team though. Fixer has been one of the most loyal to him thoughout the series.

[WakandaMan]

Oh forgot to mention, my Scream (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=85902) dials are up in the Dreams and Desires section.

Some more thoughts on Avengers/Thunderbolts, now that I've had some time to digest it...

It's not really an Avengers story very much is it? (Not that I'm complaining). More of a Thunderbolts story that just happens to have the Avengers in it a bit as well.
:cool: :rolleyes:

Anyone else notice that Zemo doesn't wear his pink sock at all in the story. Oh sorry....I mean Magenta....

[admironheart]

he did have it in his hand I think in the first scene??

I think Moonstone will be the ultimate bad guy in the story and her trial may end up as an Avenger to be 'monitored'...just a far out guess

reasons:
They made her to powerful...so at some time they will get rid of the other moonstone
She has ties to Hawkeye so she will never be all 'bad' again until they tell that story
{hmmm Clint is always with bad girls, Natasha and Karla and even Bobbi had her moment of revenge}
They gave her the Avengers Symbol in click form{ now you know the guys at Marvel follow everything that Wizkids do!!}
Moonstone will never be legitimate until she is an Avenger. Atlas, Songbird and Mach maybe treated with cold shoulders but all in all the other heroes can 'tolerate' them as heroes.

Moonstone and Zemo have gone too far. The Fixer/Techno..he no more wants to be a hero than any of them.

just some ramblings.

wes

[WakandaMan]

Some good points. I think Zemo actually has a wierd short pink cape on his costume, judging by some of the pics- much like Black Panther's old cape (I hate that they gave Panther a BIG cape- the short one was much more distinctive).

It will be interesting to see where they go with Moonstone. You're right about her being way too powerful- she's Superman level+ now, and that tends to annoy me.

Actually I was thinking if anyone will make the transition to the Avengers, it would be Songbird (thanks the Avengers Forever). Has to happen sooner or later. Moonstone would be much more interesting though.

Good point on Hawkeye's girls. He does tend to go for rebels don't he?

[Thunderbolts]

I like the panel the Avengers are in.

(no, really, it seemed like it. Like I bought it for them)

:)

[lukebuchanan]

Originally posted by Thunderbolts
I like the panel the Avengers are in.

(no, really, it seemed like it. Like I bought it for them)

:)

Hey TB, I bought that book purely off of your recommendation! How's that for peer pressure? Anyway, it was good, but since when did BZ loose that awesome scarred up face. Thanks for the heads up on the book.

Luke B. succumbing to peer pressure. "try it, the first one's free"

[WakandaMan]

Cool- you're awesome lukeB.

Zemo's new bod is fairly new (it's an entire new body not just a face).

His original body was killed by Scourge, however thanks to a trick by Techno (the same one Techno himself used to transfer his consciousness to a robotic body to stay alive), Zemo's consciousness was transferred into the body of the original Citizen V for a time- John Watkins III. Then Zemo got tired of being in there, and transferred himself into the Fixer's tech-pack. When the T-bolts visited Counter-Earth on the other side of the sun, they met Zemo's counter-earth duplicate, and so Zemo got Techno to transer him into that body. So essentially it's identical to his original before the scarring, while he is also legally dead (since his first body was killed) so he cannot be convicted of any of hte crimes he commited before his transferences.

Got it?

[Bob]

I finally got to the comic shop and picked up Avnegers VS Thunderbolts. Looking good except I am not a big fan of Atlas and Moonstone's costume makeover. I may make a few folks cringe on this, but I like Zemo's new costume (although I still like to see him wear the mask). Clix form of new or "classic" costume would be OK by me.

Glad Abe is back to his old - new look (does that make sense?). I'm loving the interaction between Fixer and Blackheath - should be interesting to see what happens.

But now for the purpose of this post - it's time to write Marvel and let them know we want the Thunderbolts back full time. If you check out this link http://newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10751. It is from the Marvel Panel at WizardWorld LA. The speciific text I am refering to is from Joe Quesada and says: "A relaunch of Thunderbolts: “It depends on the sales of the Avengers/Thunderbolts miniseries. “Write in to Tom Brevoort. Don’t send him an e-mail. Write him a hard copy.” So here is his address:

Mr. Tom Brevoort
Marvel Enterprises, Inc.
10 East 40th Street
New York, NY 10016
Attn: THUNDERBOLTS

Let him know that the Thunderbolts have a loyal following and that there is indeed interest in getting them back full time.

Thanks for the support!

[WakandaMan]

Have to agree with you on Moonstone and Atlas' revamps. I think this Artist has a thing for putting the a characters initial all over their costume- Atlas has an "A" tattoo on his arm (a lightning bolt symbol would have been much cooler), as well as the stupid one on his forehead, and Vantage has a ridiculous amount of V's on her costume (it's pretty cool looking otherwise).

Moonstone seems wrong without a mask. A mask implies deceit, and so Moonstone should always wear one really, in order to keep 'in character'. She really feels wrong without it. I don't mind the design of the rest of it though. She is way up there in power too...probably one of the most powerful Marvel characters at the moment.

Hey Thunderbolts, I've finished my Silver Age game, so I'm all ready to play a Thunderbolts game now- looking forward to it. Not sure who to use against them still...Avengers of Masters of Evil seem the most appropriate (been wanting to try and make a competitive MoE team anyway).

[admironheart]

give me another year and I will have Crimson Cowls' 25 MoE's modded!!

;)

wes

[WakandaMan]

Wes, I been meaning to ask, do you have dials for your MoE mods, or do you use pre-existing substitutes so that you can play them in tourneys? If not, I have made dials for most of the "core" team.

[WakandaMan]

In case any of you are interested, here is the link to mine and Thunderbolts' game:

Thunderbolts vs. Masters of Evil (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=87435)

It's shaping up rather interesting at the moment.

[Thunderbolts]

Originally posted by lukebuchanan
Hey TB, I bought that book purely off of your recommendation! How's that for peer pressure? Anyway, it was good, but since when did BZ loose that awesome scarred up face. Thanks for the heads up on the book.

Luke B. succumbing to peer pressure. "try it, the first one's free"

Hey, it isn't peer pressure, it's 'pleeeeeeeease give this book a chance to succeed!!!' But glad ya enjoyed it anyway!

Zemo is in a whol;e new body, hence an unscarred face, and yeah, without the scarring it doesn't seem right to me either.

Watch our PBF game everyone! :)

[Bob]

According to boneyard's rumored/confirmed list, Baron Zemo is strongly rumored to be unique. This puts a serious damper on me getting my Thunderbolts team put together.

I don't have the money to put out to buy a case and HOPE I get him. Uniques are spendy enough and if he's going to be as popular as I think he'll be, I won't be able to afford him.

Moonstone's lack of any Perplex type power was bad enough and now the limited availabilty of Zemo is really bumming me out...

[Glorfindel]

That strongly rumoured list is pretty much a confirmed list too. So Baron Zemo will be a Unique. At 90 points, lets hope he is at least playable.

[shock man x]

He won't have much of a team to lead in restricted games. All of the MOEs got retired. :surprised

[Thunderbolts]

I'm just despairing because Zemo is probably going to end up with a Brother Blood type dial. They cost almost the same, but Zemo's MoE will mean that since he is cheaper, his stats may be _worse_.

I'd love for them to break from the mould of Red Skull/Bro Blood/Mr. Bones and make him able to fight worth a ####. What's wrong with him having a sword? A Unique should represent a figure overall, and his swordplay is one of his great strengths. A BCF fig with Mastermind is rare (Taskmaster) but with Zemo costing about 40 points more, I'd hope he's more than that (no arguments about who gets a better team ability >_<).

TB - that's why I use E Taskmaster as Zemo in my ersatz 'bolts.

P.S. and someday my avatar* will be on bases too!!!!

*well, it will look better than that - that's a placeholder til my new mouse comes

[WakandaMan]

Nice work Tbolts. I been thinking about becoming a donor so that I could make a Tbolts avatar as well.

Yeah...he better darn well be playable, and not just the next Lex Luthor- very cool character who is totally unusable. At least Red Skull is playable (I've had fun with him at least).

Glorfindel- how do you know he's 90 points? Is it on boneyards list? Wowsers...that ain't a good sign.

By the way, what did everyone think of Avengers/Thunderbolts #2? My short version is this:
The story was better
The art was worse.

More on that later...

[Thunderbolts]

MY opinion of A/TB #2 is that #3 was a thousand times better.

TB - Grummett = awesome

[WakandaMan]

Is #3 out already? Darn it...I only get my comic shipment once a month in about the middle, so if it is I'll still be waiting another couple of weeks....

I really enjoyed the narration by Iron Man. Saw the end coming, but it was still pretty cool! Had to go back immediately and re-read the whole thing again as soon as I finished it.

Having got a much better look at the new Atlas costume, I can now say that it well and truly sucks! I sincerely hope that if they get an ongoing, or even their next guest appearance or whatever, that he goes back to his original one...it is so so much cooler. Zemo seems wrong without the mask too...

[Thunderbolts]

T-Bolts zealot-dom works in mysterious ways....

Tonight, Green Arrow, obviously realising I was a bigger Hawkeye fan, refused to hit anything, even rolling snake eyes once or twice and basically not pulling his weight at all. I don't think I will be putting my spare Hawkster on this guy's dial after all. Might as well wait for the Ultimates dial...

On the other hand, in a subsequent three way brawl, Dr. Sofen (the LE) took out Magog with her silly RCE power. She would have taken down Martian Manhunter too (had a medic behind her healing her up a lot as they traded fire) but time ran out. Plus he has like the powers he should and stuff. Actually, I think Moonstone goes well on J'onn's dial.

TB - just passing this info along whilt waiting for #4

[WakandaMan]

Heheh. Funny Stuff T-bolts.

Yeah, I've always noticed how characters that I like tend to perform better for me. Everytime I have used "Meteorite" she has done very well for me.

Maybe I should use Hawkeye for once (never been able to justify it...I don't even have the Veteran version, and the R and E are just so lame). Can't wait for Ultimate Hawkeye!

[Glorfindel]

Well, Zemo has now definately been confirmed!

His point cost is still only rumour, but it is said to be 90 points. Take off his MOE team ability and it leaves us with about 70ish points. I'm sure Mastermind is probably going to be a given, but what other powers can we expect? Leadership, outwit, perplex, bcf??

[WakandaMan]

My Zemo has leadership and Mastermind, followed by Outwit and Willpower. BCF to start. But then, mine is only 67 points! 90ish really scares me. I am fearing a boatload of Mastermind and Incapacitate to bump him to that point range. Brother Blood anyone?

Man he better be playable. I'm going to reserve judgement, but I'm very concerned that they've messed him up. Wouldn't come as a surprise though...unfortunately.

[Bob]

Thunderbolts - love the logo!

I'm disappointed that Baron Zemo is going to be unique. With a very limited budget, it is very unlikely that I am going to be able to get him for my Thunderbolts team. I'm guessing we will see Leadership, Mastermind, and Perplex for sure on him.

Hopefully Ult Hawkeye will better reflect the Thunderbolts version of him - that is one powerful TA, so I am wondering what they are going to do with his powers/points.

[WakandaMan]

Hey guys,

Finally got around to posting the Tank Armour Beetle (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=94708) tonight. Check it out and post your comments.

Should be getting issue 3 (and 4? Not sure) soon....can't wait.

[shock man x]

Man, I missed issue #3 due to an idiot at the place I buy some of my comics not ordering it for me.

Could someone sum up what happened in it. I need to know!!!

[Bob]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who hasn't had a chance to read #3 yet - the comic shop isn't very close to me and the car has been acting a little strange. It is starting to look like I may be getting 3 and 4 at the same time.

[Bob]

Just saw the list for Ultimates. Both Zemo and the Justine Hammer/Crimson Cowl clix are uniques (plus I want to get Carnage, too).

Boy, is my wallet starting to look empty...

[Thunderbolts]

Zemo will probably carry a $ tag falling between the value of say Mr. Bones and Kilowog. You just know all the big prices will be fetched by any Ultimates Unique, Magneto, and Carnage.

tb - ####it, and I want all those besides Carnage

[WakandaMan]

This has quickly become the most exciting set for me, probably ever. I can tell I'm going to be buying quite a lot of these. Even the Ultimate X-redos are really great (except for Colossus). I'm very keen to get 4 uniques in particular- Zemo, Cowl, Thor and Hulk, althouhg I wouldn't complain about Iron Man or Magneto.

Interesting Zemo costume eh? It's not quite his current one or an older one. Wierd. Wish he had less Incapacitate, but at least he looks playable. Surprised about the lack of Mastermind (it just seems so Zemo) but all the rest makes sense...certainly a lot more accurate than the last T-bolt we got.

I'm so glad that it's the Justine Hammer Cowl, and the sculpt looks great! Thankfully she should be pretty cheap to pick up. The powers are accurate, but again an overdose of Incap bumps her cost a lot higher than it should be. Not sure about the toughness either (ES/D would've made more sense to me) but oh well.

As for Shock Man X's request for a rundown of issue 3. here I go (spoilers ahead, don't read 'em if you don't want to know):




The Thunderbolts bust into the secret headquarters of the Wizard. After a brief tussle, Zemo blackmails the Wizard into providing him with his gravity disc technology.

Hawkeye figures out where Iron Man dissappeared to. He goes and visits Abe in prison, and gets pretty miffed when he finds out Cap hasn't been totally straight with him.

Meanwhile Stark has been getting to know the bolts and has become unsure about whether they should be stopped or not.

The Thunderbolts send the Wizards disks into orbit to attach and reprogram the satellites formerly used for the Magneto protocols with the Project Liberator programming.

Tony finds a code of programming in the Liberator which will allow Zemo to gain control of all the energy that will be absorped by it, called of course, Protocol X. The Avengers head out to stop them.

Karla intuitively becomes suspicious of the Cobalt Man, and does some checking up on him. However Cobalt Man proves himself by warning the Bolt's about the incompatability of the Wizard's software with the satellites, moments before they begin the operation.

Then, while the Avengers a still in transit. Zemo begins the Liberator device, and it starts draining the powers of all the metahumans in the world!

Interesting eh? I quite enjoyed this issue I must say.

[shock man x]

So Zemo is still evil? Guess a leopard (or dalmatian in Zemo's case) doesn't change their spots.

:( I was hoping he'd be a good guy. :(

[admironheart]

he might be....

I am betting that our favorite Karla or the fixer is behind all of this. remember that zemo is in his clone. He never wanted to be in a unscarred clone body before. Then Scourge came along.

Who is to say that Techno or Meteorite did not have something to do with mind altering plot here. It would be like Moonstone to do the misdirection thing and put in the secret computer commands and then label it Protocol X to shunt the suspicion onto Zemo.

I still think they will tidy up the twin stones she have and that it is in part responsible maybe for all of this??

cannot wait for #4

wes

[WakandaMan]

Yeah good call. The only evidence that Zemo is behind it is that the secret encoding is called Protocol X, and that fits his standard procedure of naming everything with an X - Adhesive X, etc.

It doesn't seem like it could be Karla based on her narration of issue 3. She seemed to be thining like a good guy, but then, she is so duplicitous anyway, and with the 2 stones who knows what effect that has had psychologically.

Fixer possibly, but he doesn't usually go for the grand schemes. Of anyone, I am most suspicious of Blackheath. Seems to me he is just using the Tbolts as a means to his own ends.

I like your way of thinking Wes.

I wonder who's going to narrate #3? Since we had Zemo, Iron Man, Moonstone, I'm guessing it will be an Avenger to fit the pattern. Hopefully Hawkeye, and that would make sesne too, but it could be Cap.

[Thunderbolts]

Mile High Comics has a preview up of #4,first couple of pages.

http://www.milehighcomics.com/firstlook/060304/avt4cvr.html

Looks like Zemo has had enough...

tb - and about time