Critical Mass Stats

[Draddog]

WizKids has posted stats for five characters from Critical Mass:
<UL>
<LI><A HREF="/cgi-bin/get_unit.cgi?num=cm095">Unique Hulk</A>
<LI><A HREF="/cgi-bin/get_unit.cgi?num=cm096">Unique Silver Surfer</A>
<LI><A HREF="/cgi-bin/get_unit.cgi?num=cm070">Rookie Venom</A>
<LI><A HREF="/cgi-bin/get_unit.cgi?num=cm071">Experienced Venom</A>
<LI><A HREF="/cgi-bin/get_unit.cgi?num=cm072">Veteran Venom</A>
<LI><A HREF="/cgi-bin/get_unit.cgi?num=cm067">Rookie Spider-Man</A>
<LI><A HREF="/cgi-bin/get_unit.cgi?num=cm068">Experienced Spider-Man</A>
<LI><A HREF="/cgi-bin/get_unit.cgi?num=cm069">Vetran Spider-Man</A>
<LI><A HREF="/cgi-bin/get_unit.cgi?num=cm061">Rookie Patch</A>
<LI><A HREF="/cgi-bin/get_unit.cgi?num=cm062">Experienced Patch</A>
<LI><A HREF="/cgi-bin/get_unit.cgi?num=cm063">Veteran Patch</A>
</UL>

[webhead817]

Wow, it's Critical Mass overload week here at HCR!

[Ed0825]

Let the good times roll.

[psul71]

All I can say is thanks :) !!!

[WadeDeadpool]

I remember back when Xplosion was being released, someone posted the pics about a month in advance. We were hyped. Then it all died down, and by the time it was released, much of the hysteria was missing. Now that CM interest is peaking, WK is doling out all the info to get us back into it. All this and I'm lovin' it, too!

[Annihillus]

I'm loving those Surfer stats. And that looks like the Spiderman I've been waiting for.

Now I'm hyped.

Woo Hoo!:laugh:

[HotSauce]

Spider man's dial looks awesome. This is what it should have been in IC IMO. I can't wait to buy my boosters and play the marquee!!

[Tarnish]

It's update Madness!!!


Tarnish

[pezdork]

ONE CLICK OF RUNNING SHOT! WTF! GOOD#### WIZKIDS! WHY WOUDL YOU F#$% UP SILVER SURFER LIKE THAT! HUMAN TORCH HAS MORE CLICKS OF RUNNING SHOT! i gotta say his stats are nice but for a unique with that kind of point cost. i feel really cheated! my favorite character and they make his figure into an over costed human torch upgrade! BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[sylentspy]

imo intelli hulk is intelli suck, on his best clicks his range gets nullified by battlefury, hellboy would rip hulk a new one. silver surfer, meh quite a plain dial, i llike the regen in the mid, that's pretty cool, i dont think he's that playable though. i want to see more though ^^. spiderman is a really cool dial, good for his points too :).

[Kaitouace]

Wow. Surfer is kind of disappointing. I knew he was going to be neutered but still. He's got Thanos Syndrome. Just Outwit his defensive power whatever it is and smack him. Only one click of Running Shot so you can't even push him and take advantage of his long dial. Other than the nice shift to Impervious after his first few clicks there's not all that much to be excited about.

[zacharoo]

Silver Surfer's stats...can you say ordinary? :ermm:

[sylentspy]

oih yeah, best thing, patch doesnt have battlefury, can anyone say MM sponge? pretty cool w/ the perplex too ;)

[DreadDormammu]

I don't think I like the Hulk. The ranged thing is not enough to be worthwhile and, as usual, I hate Leadership on high cost figures.

Silver Surfer is better. His DV is sweet. But I'm not sure what I think about Regen on the 3-4th from last clicks. Also, I would have liked more than one click of RS and if you want to give him Support, how about if he has it when his AV is high enough to hit with it. :ermm: Still, my favorite of this batch.

Venom doesn't excite me. Vet definitely looks best, but 84 points? Not sure about that. The sculpture is goofy.

Spider-Man is pretty cool. Although I still think Defend is an odd choice and he still can't do more than 2 damage?!

I like the nice amount of Stealth and the Perplex on Patch. His move and AV seem a touch low, but a better figure than I was hoping for.

[Kaitouace]

Patch is definitely better than I thought he would be. Venom is cool although he came out pretty much as I thought. That's probably the best Spider-Man fig to date. I also have to keep wondering WHY they keep giving Spidey defend (no web shield excuse this time) but the 18 defense plus defend on the Vet is a nice sight. Not really hating the Hulk as much as most others. Although that Battle Fury thing (while I see why they did it) it totally annoying as you can't capitalize on the range then (which is exactly why they did it).

Surfer? Color me disappointed. Definitely not the "gotta have" Unique this set.

[BigSoph]

As a long time DC Fan all I can say is...

HA HA (Like Nelson)

I honestly thought Marvel was going to go freakin' nuts with power levels but they actually restrained themselves.

Even I can tell some of these are WAY underpowered (like Surfer and Hulk)

Marvel's prohibition against 11 clicks of life continues unabated as DC's piss-poor Attack stats.

[Spider-Bat]

Waht gets me is that Daredevil is apparently harder to hit that Spider-Man. Sure he's got Super Senses, but at 88 points (Vet) I was kind of expecting an 18, at least. Spider-Mans whole attraction is that he's almost impossible to tag. With a mere 16 and any BCF with a good roll knocks him past Defend, without any Super Senses at the end either! I just know people are going to whine and moan about this because they've been moaning since IC. IMHO he should have the Incap at the start, with Super Strength nearer the End. And a higher defense to start off with. I hate to say it, but I don't think I'll be playing much of Spidey.

[Red Gambit]

Hulk is a weird, weird, unusable figure.
For all of you who bash surver, he's very playable! Who wants to LET HIM get hit? He's got huge range, double attack, incredible running shot - 7 spaces. Good thing that he doesn't have too many powers - he's a perplexaholic. You could make that guy bloody unstoppable if you gave him a couple stealthed perplexers and/or some hookers, and if you had him carrying an enhancement, barrier, or perplex piece, he could be insane. Plus, he has 18 and Been waiting for that one, eh?

[skeevo666]

Silver Surfer: Best medic, ever ;)

[HereticAsian]

Patch....eh...Logan is so much better.

If only surfer had 2 more clicks of RS. I'll be happy, although he is a Defender with 18 Defense. I hate his support though, in fact i hate high costing figs with support period. a high costing fig is there to kick a** not heal the support pieces.

Hulk...is interesting... HE HAS LEADERSHIP! U Hellboy can take him, but he is also more points then Hulk so he should.

I don't know if i like venom or not. He doesn't do three clicks of damage like he should. yeah he has perplex to up the damage but it's not the same. Yeah he has superstrenght, but... he needs 3 damage.....

Finally REV spiderman with supersense, but i prefer 3 damage with incap all the way down with 2 range attacks at 8 range.

[Djangomank2k]

Hulk. darnit. that freaking spidey ability. It can go to hell. I know thats sucking up a lot of the points. let me clkose by saying wah. seriously, i never expected him to be nerfed that much.

[skeevo666]

P is for Perplex

See Patch.

See Patch perplex.

Perplex, Patch! Perplex!

[WakandaMan]

I really like the new Hulk. I want him.

They finally nailed Spidey- can't wait.

Venom looks cool.

I could care less about Patch.

Surfer looks okay. For all the naysayers, don't forget he has the Defenders TA to share his lovely DVs. mmm.

[Darksavage27]

i am not disappointed with any of them. The spiderman looks like he will be really fun to play, and thats what this game is about, right? anyway, surfer is awesome, but IMHO he should have atleast 2 more clicks of running shot, but im satisfied because who wants an overpowered fig that makes the game boring? anyway, when you compare his stats to thanos, it looks like they made him right and shows why he should be compared to thanos, because they are such bitter enemies. As for venom, he is also good, the BCF was a good choice, as for patch, exactly what i was expecting minus the perplex. Now, as for the hulk, he might be one of the more strange pieces out of marvel. Overall, they look pretty awesome, and make me happy that my case is now coming a week before it should!!

[Colossus81]

This spidey is pretty playable but would be perfect if the outwit was front ended instead of coming up in the back of the dial. If his outwit is front loaded then he is doing damage to invulnerable figs as spidey should. Hulk is an akward piece to say the least. As was already pointed out Surfer suffers from Thanos syndrome(when you only have one power it narrows down what the outwit is used for) Patch is suprisingly a decent piece. Venom can do up to 5 damage on his own in vet form(heavy object and perplex) thats pretty good IMO. Then he gets bcf later....He is definately the most playable of these five.

[Redleg]

Ah...Rookie Venom. For 55 pts...I get L/C...SS with a solid attack...and Perplex.
How many objects will he be grabbing from underneath that Stealthed figure? Many.

As for Surfer...

Sure you can just Outwit his defensive power...but you can just Outwit anybody's defensive power. Surfer can STILL influence the board from 17 squares away. Surfer can STILL require a 19 to hit from range if he's on an object. Surfer can STILL retaliate for a natural 4 clicks if you hit him for 4 when he has no damage reducing powers.

On paper they may not be gods...but I think in the hands of the right player...they'll be wonderfully effective.

[TheCreech]

I don't think that surfer is to bad. Four clicks of INV and Two Clicks of IMP... no other figure has that in the game. Damage is nice and i like that he has support makes sense for him. Of course more running shot would of been nice and and a higher attack value. Venom... well it is pretty much what i wanted except for BCF?? he should have INC and higher Damage value. Overall though i am very excited About CM

[Sweetcurse]

Patch: He has 3 damage on his BCF clicks, retarded. On the others he only does 2. I dont think Ill polay this fig.

Silver Surfer: Dissapointing. ONe click of running shot, I dont know. Such a heavy reliance on defensive powers is not good.

Hulk: Blah, there are cheaper better figs who can do the same.

Spiderman: They just keep making him wrong. 2 base damage is stupid! How hard is it to see that he needs 1 base damage with CCE!?! I guess it;s okay because he is basically a REV versio of XP's unique and for those who like the super strength spidey this is good. I just dont see Super strength on this guy. 18 defense with supersenses, double incap, 6 range, 1 damage + CCE, and leap climb is what's necessary!

Venom: Im not a fan of this guy, but I think he looks very playable. The switch from SS to BCF is nice and dangerous. Ill definitely play him.

[Untouchable]

The hulk isn't too bad.The battle fury yeah stinks, but he does have spidey team ability.If you were to play a croos over game just take out Alfred.The cheepest Bat-man team ability.He's only 6 points.Then have hulk leap and climb towards his victums while stopping in hindering and being in stealth.He would be killer if you did the cross over battle games.

I am still waiting for a battle driven crazy wolverine.Have one where he is at his best when he is P****d off.

I do like Venom and Spider-man.I will be using them time to time.

as for the Silver Surfer...........He can be a monster.Like someone said above, have a bunch of stealthed perplexers and for an added terror, have the Surfer carry the Invisible Girl.Make sure she stays in stealth and the Surfer will always have an 18 DV.or have him have a 19 DV by sticking him on Hindering Terrain. :-) I do agree he should have had about 1 or 2 more clix of Running Shot but I think he can be played.Just look at your figures and see what sick things you can come up with :-) I have:devious:

also I have to say I WANT ULIK LOL

[Marshal Law]

Originally posted by HotSauce
Spider man's dial looks awesome. This is what it should have been in IC IMO. I can't wait to buy my boosters and play the marquee!!

I am not impressed. Basically a tweak on the Xplosion version, which was the best version up until then but still missing the mark in many players opinions. The movement went up - the one good improvement, IMO. The attack factor went up - a bad thing, the Xplosion numbers were about right as Spider-Man is hard to hit, not awesome at landing hits. Defense that is still too low, even with Super Senses. A fixation on Super Strength over Incap that not only isn't fitting with the HeroClix definition of SS, it fits poorly with a figure that only kicks out a base damage of 2. And when you finally do hit Incap, the attack factor is marginal and the range inadequate.

What is the mark, you ask? IMO - low damage + CCE (so attacks do damage at close range, not long). Double arrow Incap at experienced version+. Range 6 for the veteran version. High defense - and not just "high if you add Super Senses in". These would probably be the best game fit of Spider-Man into HeroClix. Basically, I still can't see myself playing the CM figure in a constructed game - too easy to hit, too little damage inflicted, too short of a range for the Incap to be worth anything, and just too bloody expensive for what you do get.

Not sure if I want to see them try again (and possibly fail again) or just give up now. For while this Spider-Man is an improvement, it doesn't hit the mark, and its not exactly an inobvious mark to hit.

[SonofVader]

Well, I'm not uber-excited... and that's weird, because I WAS excited for Indy. And it has nothing to do with the figures. The major figure releases all look like they're just going to be ok... I'll never be happy until Spidey has 2 targets. Loga... Patch shouldn't have BCF at all. Hulk (Professor) should never hit 2 damage. More clicks of RS for Surfer. 3 damage for Venom... these were all things I was expecting (maybe that's why Indy didn't let me down... very few expectations). Ulik is amazing, since I didn't know what was coming. The mainstays of the Marvelverse... not so much.

[yitjuan]

Question on Spiderman : How many times do you see him pummel down an opponent with strength ? He normally uses his superior intellect to take them down . I can't remember the last time Petey used his brawn over his brains .

[kwsazul]

Silver Surfer: modified as he had to be at least for this game I would have liked to have seen a 12 range, but eh? How many hookers does it take to turn this guy into a monster?

Spider-man: you came close WK, but spiderman with no spiderman TA, makes little to no sense for me. The veteran I do like

Venom: I still can't get past that pose, decent dial though

Hulk:He actually looked very playable to me, to be the brick that he is I expected him to cost way more than he does.

Patch:And I should use you instead of Logan/stealth Wolverine because......oh right perplex so far down your dial you'll either die or regen right past it

[Capt. Clix]

I LOVE THE NEW HULK.....nice..new Spiderman is good....could of done more with it...NICE SCULPT...same with Venom...Patch is OK...but THEY KILLED SILEVR SURFER...NO ATTACK POWERS????? And 1 click of Running Shot?? He's OK, but I thought he would be better.

[SuperGENE]

Wow, they all stink!

I was really expecting something great after seeing the stats for Ulik and Kraven LE.

Hulk looks like a big waste of points. He only does 2 damage for half his dial, and even when he can bring on the hurtin', his defense stinks!

Patch needs to take 2 clicks of damage to be "activated" and that's too much IMO.

Venom actually wasn't half bad. I think his damage and range are a bit low, but I could see putting him on a tourney team.

Once again, WK has screwed up Spidy. He's completely vulnerable at the beginning with a low defense. And he still can't do more than 2 damage???!!! At least give him perplex! The 18 defend is nice, but there's no promise you'll ever be on those exact clicks. Worst of all though, is the fact that his range is still terrible and he doesn't have 2 arrows! TERRIBLE!!! I think XP Spidy is still the best - not so easy to play well, but the best of the bunch.

Silver Surfer - wipe out! The guy has some nice stats, but in a game that has quickly become all stealth, that running shot won't do him much good. He could have been done better: higher attack value, higher peak damage (1 click of 5), 1 or 2 more clicks of running shot, a more consistent attack throughout the dial, and maybe a click or 2 of outwit. Not a terrible figure, but definitely not worth his points. I can use E Ultron to share an 18 defense if need be. I only plan on using this guy if I pull him in a sealed booster event.

I don't want to close on such a negative note, so I will say that I am very impressed with Ulik (who should be a regular on all my 400+ pt armies) as well as Kraven and Dormamu. I still have hope...

[kon-el]

I personally am NOT complaining! I love each stat (cept for patch, couldn't care either way) Spidey is Great!!! EXACTLY what he should be! and Ulik is AWESOME!!! Defineatley the new brick on each of my teams.

Thanks Wizkids!

Kon-el

[lewdew]

Lets see...............Dissapointed by patch.........
One click of running shot for silver surfer?...its missing 2 IMO.
Venom Vet version is good............
Spiderman is cool.....should of been in I.C.

And whats up with all these no name figs?.........

[AlgertMan]

Patch is FUNKY!!

I LOVE IT!

[TheCreech]

I like patch. I can't wait to use him and mr fixit in a senario

[rotru]

This has really been some week, eh? I have to say that if this is the kind of treatment we get when the list doesn't get out, then I'm all for no more lists! The trickle really means that I get excited at what they give us.

[weezer_10]

I have to say, even as a DC fan, I myself am disappointed with these stats, especially with Silver Surfer.

Critical Mass held so much promise for these characters, especially these characters, and I feel they've been let down. Silver Surfer has such a dull dial, it reminds of Thanos'.

The Hulk looks okay though, he keeps a very good AV through his dial, he'll probably be the most playable Hulk to date, and that wild-card TA will only make him more attractive. The fairly low DV also means he'll be quite easy to heal.

Spider-Man is definitely an improvement, but like the others, nothing special.

Overall, I give these figures 'meh' stars out of five.

[lukebuchanan]

Marshall Law----great dial conception! Now, on to this:

Hulk: will be great in cross company play for the same reason Batman rocks w/ new rules.

Spidey: his rookie will still see a lot of play from me. It' that "last ditch" click that drives his cost up (I'm guessin)

Venom: his dial doesn't sit right, but the more I look at it the more I think I could get used to it.

Silver Surfer: got bit by the power bug but stomped the stat bug into the ground. He'll see more play when people realize the potential.

Patch.............uh, thanks anyway.

Luke B.

[Summoner Geek]

I still don't understand why they give spider-man defend all the time and not more outwit or perplex. Like someone said earlier, he wins his fights by annoying (perplex) or out-smarting (outwit) his opponents most of the time.

9 clicks of life, 8 movement with Leap/Climb, 6 range, 2 arrows, incapacitate, 18 starting def with SS, 10-11 attack, 2 damage all down the dial with Perplex to start (givng him 3 possible damage) and mixing in outwit. Simple!

[Inbetweener]

Hey, I know this may sound as a bit of a surprise but I think the Surfer looks pretty playable. He's gonna hit you first and then gets tougher and his regeneration will put him back on his toughest clix...his support is a good bonus that fits the character...sure he's not the beast of heroclix will all expected (and I really hoped for) but he, just like Thor, will be fun and easy to build a team around...don't forget that 18 D with the defenders TA, I can see crossing that with the wildcards after the release of this set and making some intresting options.

That Hulk is hardly playable but the Spidey TA is an interesting bonus.

Speaking of Spidy, this is THE spiderman we've been waiting for...I was hoping for CCE with a base one damage but this is an excellent figure for 88pts and consistently playable...Venom is not bad either.

Patch pretty much shows that this expansion is a bit like indy...these figures seems to be somewhat useful on every single click. I'm very impressed with these dials.

[Grappler]

Venom, a long dial with toughness ending in regeneration, a great complement to the Mastermind of Doom!

[Inbetweener]

Hey, I know this may sound as a bit of a surprise but I think the Surfer looks pretty playable. He's gonna hit you first and then gets tougher and his regeneration will put him back on his toughest clix...his support is a good bonus that fits the character...sure he's not the beast of heroclix will all expected (and I really hoped for) but he, just like Thor, will be fun and easy to build a team around...don't forget that 18 D with the defenders TA, I can see crossing that with the wildcards after the release of this set and making some intresting options.

That Hulk is hardly playable but the Spidey TA is an interesting bonus.

Speaking of Spidy, this is THE spiderman we've been waiting for...I was hoping for CCE with a base one damage but this is an excellent figure for 88pts and consistently playable...Venom is not bad either.

Patch pretty much shows that this expansion is a bit like indy...these figures seems to be somewhat useful on every single click. I'm very impressed with these dials.

[Sweetcurse]

Like I say, they make the unknowns good and the stars bad. Such is the life of HC!:(

[Manchine]

Ahh

Spidey --- I love how people keep saying Spidey should have more then 2 base damage. Yeah Right! Double Arrow sorry, most cases he doesnt hit 2 super powered people at once. Thugs and such yes but not Other Characters. XP Spidey jsut didnt have the right feel. Dont know if this will be any better. Still think he should have Inc first then Super Strength.

Silver Surfer --- Yes he should have more Running SHot. At least 2 more Kliqs. Everything else looks about right.

Hulk --- Perfect. Leadership which he should have. Little bit of battle fury makes perfect sense.

Venom --- Just being Slightly stronger then Spidey perfect having 2 damage. His Small amount of toughness perfect. Cant see a thing wrong with him.

Patch --- I am not sure about him that 3 Damage hmmmm. I would say not perfect but ok.

[The Stinger]

Im with the camp that says spidey needs 1 damage plus CCE, and give him 18 defense with SS.

Spidey is supposed to be harder than krap to hit, frustrating the hell out of his opponents. 16 defense isnt hard to hit at all.

Then give him the 2 targets for range, at a range of 6 on the vet. With the 1 damage, and most likely incapacitate, the ranged attacks for the webbing do the right damage as well. He hits hard up close, and ties you up from range.

As a spiderman freak, I like all the spiderman figures, but if youre playing a numbers/stats guru, or a powergamer, you cant use your favorite guys and have a decent chance.

He's great in strictly for fun games around the house though.

[The Stinger]

Im with the camp that says spidey needs 1 damage plus CCE, and give him 18 defense with SS.

Spidey is supposed to be harder than krap to hit, frustrating the hell out of his opponents. 16 defense isnt hard to hit at all.

Then give him the 2 targets for range, at a range of 6 on the vet. With the 1 damage, and most likely incapacitate, the ranged attacks for the webbing do the right damage as well. He hits hard up close, and ties you up from range.

As a spiderman freak, I like all the spiderman figures, but if youre playing a numbers/stats guru, or a powergamer, you cant use your favorite guys and have a decent chance.

He's great in strictly for fun games around the house though.

[Allure]

I know it’s been said but for the sake of redundancy I’m pretty disappointed in Silver Surfer. Perfect now we got another Thanos on our hands.

[chase_jyd]

I don't know, I love the Surfer's stats. Nice, consistent dial, defense stays high, which will reallt benefit the Defenders, and regen is placed right where he can potentially get right back to the impervious clicks without help from a medic. Good luck getting rid of him. Even outwitted, that high defense through his better clicks will help avoid some damage.
Only one click of running shot, but what a click. Two arrows with good ranged damage too. Keeping the powers limited but in useful spots also keeps his cost down without weighing him down with powers that won't see a lot of use. At a fairly lean (for what he does) cost, I can see him getting a lot of use, while if he was up over 200 he'd be a lot less useful as a team figure.

As for the Hulk, kind of hit and miss on the stats, but I appreciate a Hulk with Spider-Man ally. Makes him a lot more versatile than some of the past versions. Leadership is a waste though on a figure over 120 points, at least in most formats.

Spider-Man... when will they make a Spider-Man with 18 defense and super senses? I know, its supposedly unbalancing, but Nightcrawler has it, along with hypersonic, and Spidey has more pure agility. (This has been demonstrated a time or three) I do like the defense spike in the middle of his dial though when he picks up defend, and in the vet we finally get another Spider Men who is a Spider Man ally. I didn't figure those would be so rare.

Venom... nothing special. Usable, no surprises.

Patch... stealth, bcf, regen. He'll make a lot of teams that need mastermind fodder both to hulk him up to his best clicks sooner, and due to the regen back to his best clicks, but doesn't stand out on his own.

I think Ulik is still the treasure of this set so far, he's about as optimized for his purpose (being tked or taxiied in and inflicting damage fast) as a brick can get. But as much as he's going to disappoint some of the fans since he doesn't have a rainbow dial and three colors on every click, I still place the Surfer at the second best so far on the just plain useful and well designed list.
I can't wait to try him out.

[GeorgeDaGreat]

I LOVE YOU WIZKIDS!!!!!!!!!!!

[Psylockeslover]

wah wah wah wah wah wah wah wah wah.........


seriously, you guys are a bunch of crybabys!

Maybe it's a good thing I'm not a big fan of these guys. I like the look of these dials.....I think you are missing some of the potential of these guys.....

Just stop for a minute and look at these dials without all of your biased views of the characters, and you will see the potential these guys have...!

The only one I am not completely sure of really is SS, but that is only because of the current state of the Defenders TA right now......

[Jason Blood]

I love the new Hulk fig

but my only complaint is that I was expecting him to be more like Despero but with EE

he is highly playable and has a hig AV throughout his entire dial

He will be very important in mixed games with his range and his beastly close combat AND he can mimic any team you have

If you can't think of a strategy for a character as godly as him

you need to think more

[JLovegrove]

Venom is flawless. That's one click that's gonna rip a new one on the board. Perplex is perfect for Venom.

I think the Surfer is just right.. amazingly high numerical stats, but still vuinerable. He's just anothe Firelord. Heck, we all know ANY character can be beaten in this game. It's all a matter of strategy.

That new Spidey seems like the IC Spidey to me with Defend added in there. I don't get it... Cool sculpt though.

Patch... ehh... whatever...

I know a lot of folks don't like having Corsair and Hepzibah in CM, but I have always liked the Starjammers. They were a fun odd assortment of characters. They also fit with the "outer space" theme of the set. (Kree Warriors, Ronan, Beta Ray Bill, Nebula, Brood, etc.) Where is my Gladiator of the Shi'Ar Empire?? :)

[weezer_10]

Originally posted by Psylockeslover
wah wah wah wah wah wah wah wah wah.........


seriously, you guys are a bunch of crybabys!
No, we just have good personal taste.

:grin:

[drgnoftyr]

Originally posted by Psylockeslover
wah wah wah wah wah wah wah wah wah.........


seriously, you guys are a bunch of crybabys!

Maybe it's a good thing I'm not a big fan of these guys. I like the look of these dials.....I think you are missing some of the potential of these guys.....

Just stop for a minute and look at these dials without all of your biased views of the characters, and you will see the potential these guys have...!

The only one I am not completely sure of really is SS, but that is only because of the current state of the Defenders TA right now......


*clap's * psy is right give these fig's a chance before ya bash them they might just surprise ya

[CosmicTom]

As a big Silver Surfer afficionado, I'm pretty dissapointed. At one point, WizKids said that they were probably not going to do Surfer Because he was so powerful. Now that he's out, he's a bit wimpy. No attack powers. Lowish attack numbers. One click of running shot. 3 starting damage. With Cosmic Justice unleashing SOD Supes, Amazo, and Despero I was hoping WK would let Surfer shine. Oh, well, I'll still have to get him, and have him tote around E Doc Strange, or some wildcard, but I really feel he got shafted. He could've been the OWAW Superman of Marvel.

[ChromeWeasel]

I really like Venom and Spidey. These guys are the new kings of the YOINK. High movement and Super Strength means they can pull the cover away from stealthed figures. Batman hiding on the Gumball machine again? Send in Spidey or Venom and blow his ### away! Tell me that wont be useful in almost any game. Now I don't have to sweat not getting a LE Mac Gargan. I'll just pick up R Venom. Nice!

Spidey's dial is pretty useful all the way down too. Tell me he isn't totally pushable? Halfway through his dial when lots of clix stink he's gets a huge boost. That defend can really help mid-game.

I don't care about Patch and Surfer looks surprisingly bland, but I wasnt really looking forward to them anyway. Hulk looks pretty cool to me.

[HereticAsian]

we're not bias we just understand what is right........

like why does REV Flash has lower movement then nightcrawler?

Why only owaw superman has hypersonic, shouldn't all versions of superman have it?

Why juggernaut doesn't have charge.

Basically we just know what is right.

[Nickel97]

Silver Surfer looks good. Good numbers are good numbers. 4 natural damage with 2 targets at 10 range is a good thing. Another RS would be nice, but it's still the best of what we've seen.
I like the Vet Spiderman too.
The rest are unexciting either dial-wise or character-wise.

This is the first set since IC that I haven't pre-ordered any quantity of.

[Manchine]

Originally posted by HereticAsian
we're not bias we just understand what is right........

like why does REV Flash has lower movement then nightcrawler?

Why only owaw superman has hypersonic, shouldn't all versions of superman have it?

Why juggernaut doesn't have charge.

Basically we just know what is right.

Except some of that is Wrong.

Shouldnt all version of Superman have HSS?

Nope, only certain Uniques sup's should have HSS.

Why doesnt Juggy have Charge.

This question should be more along the lines of why he has such a high movement. If he had charge give him 1 kliq of 6 move with the rest 4 move with a couple kliqs of Charge.

Why does Flash have a lower Move then Nightcrawler?

Becuase its different universes.

Let me add a one of my own.

Why does Batman have 3 damage? He shouldnt.

[Thunderbolts]

And on that note Critical Mass, with the promise of 'the biggest heavyweights yet!' jobs to Cosmic Justice. ' 'nuff said.' I guess Terrax and Dormammu are the 'powerhouses' of this set, but even they're not all that compared to Despero, SOD Superman, and Amazo.

Really not looking forward to Moonstone/Meteorite now.

[AcidBath]

Looks awesome.... thanks Wizkids. Only "problem" is no Syndicate on Venom?

[Manchine]

Originally posted by Thunderbolts
And on that note Critical Mass, with the promise of 'the biggest heavyweights yet!' jobs to Cosmic Justice. ' 'nuff said.' I guess Terrax and Dormammu are the 'powerhouses' of this set, but even they're not all that compared to Despero, SOD Superman, and Amazo.

Really not looking forward to Moonstone/Meteorite now.

Well, Your forgetting Ulik, Rhino, Ronan, Captain Marvel, and Nova along with Terrax, Silver Surfer, and Dormammu.

[spyder_byte]

what i like to say is good silver surfer i was expecting prettyier colors along the dial but he looks great as a dial, and patch i think is almost another logan but ehh not a big fan of wolvie, now spiderm/venow, are they arch enemies? but they are good and i agree with the "this is the spidey we have been waint for" i have all spiderman and spiderman team excliding the LE's but its great now i got another to get how fun

[HereticAsian]

Supeman moves just a hair fraction slower than flash... is that not hypersonice level?

Same universe why is U flash that much faster?

Different universe yes, but same game system.

let me add one thing why does nightwing has a higher AV then Batman?


Wizkids makes mistakes, a lot of it in fact.

Anyway this is about Crit Mass.

some people are saying we should give them a chance in gameplay.

That's fine i don't mind playing them at all, in fact i will, but we want to voice our opinion because criticism leads to improvement in future products.

[The Charlatan]

Surfer's a little too bland, just a few more clicks of RS would have been perfect.
Patch's surprising nice looking.
Venom's fine.
Hulk :( ....his defense and damage suck. His attack at least stays good.
Spider-Man....SO #%^%$ CLOSE!!! He STILLneeds 1) two bolts 2)more Incap than SStrength 3) to regain SS after losing Defend. XP Spidey is still the closest to the real thing. I had a chance to buy him today, but he was $34 and Despreo was only $19....

[Thunderbolts]

Rhino isn't what I'd call a powerhouse, from what I know of him I'd rather use She-Hulk, though I haven't gotten all the info on him yet obviously. Cpt. Marvel sounds like another average Unique (in fact, he sounds far too similar to Warbird, except he gets some Outwit and doesn't free move. Sure, ok). Ulik, yeah, no denying he's one of the gems of this set thus far.

Out of all the info available thus far, Morganna Le Fay, Ulik and Diablo are the only interesting and playable characters*. Possibly Kraven. Everything else seems so... mehh. Spider-Man isn't much different from Xplosion and still not right. Surfer is a massive dissappointment. Hulk is pretty good, perhaps the best Hulk of the lot, but that's only due to his team - so really it's down to who else you have. Patch.... completely pointless game-wise. We know why he's in it, obviously. Venom... can't really comment, he probably is more likely to break a bike over your head than Spider-Man, so I can see why he has the strength. Shouldn't he have Super-Senses somewhere? (Uh-oh, not another super-senses petition) Would have been nice if he had front-end Charge. Y'know, an aggressive version of Spider-Man, kinda.


*300 point tournament setting, that is.

[DoomX]

I liked Indy Clix better *shrugs*. But I really dig that set.

Spider-Man is very well done I think but I'm dissapointed in Venom greatly, he isn't very playable for the point cost. I mean shouldn't he always have Perplex? If XP Elektra can why can't others that are more er well perplexing characters? Ah well, I wasn't rabidly excited before and I'm not thrilled now. Meh.

Actually though while a little vanilla in flavor Silver Surfer is very powerful and far better than Thanos.

[miridor]

Ok I’m disappointed with Patch. But I guess it could just be me, Wolverine (from the early 80’s into early 90’s) is my favorite character.

Venom… WOW! An 11 attack for his vet. am I the only one a little surprised by that? I really like him, but 11?

Spidey, I think I like this one, but I agree with Machine, Spidey should have Inc first then SS. His defense should be 17 w/Super Sense just one more point. Damage is just fine at 2.

Surfer he’s OK, not too bad. I would like to have seen at least 1 more clix of Running Shot.

Hulk, OK that’s all

[Manchine]

Originally posted by miridor
Spidey, I think I like this one, but I agree with Machine, Spidey should have Inc first then SS.


What

*Faints*

LOL:laugh: :p ;) :laugh: :p ;)

[Manchine]

Originally posted by miridor
Spidey, I think I like this one, but I agree with Machine, Spidey should have Inc first then SS.


What

*Faints*

LOL:laugh: :p ;) :laugh: :p ;)

[Wasteland]

I really like the new characters.

Hulk - Ranged Hulk that can copy teams. Nice. He could be a very nasty character, and point wise, playable.

Surfer - Nasty character. 18 Defense for the Defenders? Nice. Huge range (17 Square coverage??) and when he closes on you then he's going to pound on you. A very playable character. People say that support is useless on high point figs and such, but I don't agree. I like it on him for a couple of reasons. If he takes that much damage, at least he can get his teammates back in the game so that you can win. Second, it suits the character. He helps people out constantly.

Venom - The only thing that I can say is that I wish that the Experienced version was the Sinister Syndicate. Other than that, very good fig.

Spidey - Very happy with the dials. Wish all of them were Spidey team, however (he just doesn't work well with himself at the beginning of his career I guess) Love the defend in the middle. Once everyone's taken some damage and people's attack values are hurting, along comes Spidey to make sure that they can't hit you without an 11 or 12. Very nice. I like the Superstrength then Incap, as first you beat on people, then you try to get away. I wish there was higher defense numbers for the start with Super Senses, and then at the end. Too bad no Perplex off the start, but I'll live.

Patch - Eh. The only one that I'm not really interested in. Good Mastermind sponge, but really, if that's all he's on your team for, you've got some problems.

[Iceman425]

My take on the stats they just put up...(by the way, I think Ulik is actually the most impressive so far)

Surfer-Got him right for the most part, but a deeper run of Runnin' Shot would have been nice. Finally a Defender that can make use of the TA. Support at an 8-7 AV isn't to shabby either.

Venom-Aiight, but I was really hopin' for a Sinister Syndicate (R,E) and a Spider Team (V). The fact that you can finally knock that dumpster out of his hands just so he can shred you with BCF is a little scary though.

Spiderman-Wish they had outwit towards the front of his dial...and a couple extra clicks of flurry...oh well, just another Spidey in my opinion.

Patch-Different take on him, although I was hopin' for a SHIELD TA....

Hulk-Man, some people are bashing this hulk saying that he's powered down...woah woah woah...I know not every venue allows cross-universe TA's but can you imagine a Stealthed hulk with an 8 range doin' 3-4 damage for the most part? Even if mixing is not a house rule he can still move for free (Avengers), share an AV, get or give a click (X-men, FF)..I think this is a great hulk.

That's my 2cents.

[Iceman425]

My take on the stats they just put up...(by the way, I think Ulik is actually the most impressive so far)

Surfer-Got him right for the most part, but a deeper run of Runnin' Shot would have been nice. Finally a Defender that can make use of the TA. Support at an 8-7 AV isn't to shabby either.

Venom-Aiight, but I was really hopin' for a Sinister Syndicate (R,E) and a Spider Team (V). The fact that you can finally knock that dumpster out of his hands just so he can shred you with BCF is a little scary though.

Spiderman-Wish they had outwit towards the front of his dial...and a couple extra clicks of flurry...oh well, just another Spidey in my opinion.

Patch-Different take on him, although I was hopin' for a SHIELD TA....

Hulk-Man, some people are bashing this hulk saying that he's powered down...woah woah woah...I know not every venue allows cross-universe TA's but can you imagine a Stealthed hulk with an 8 range doin' 3-4 damage for the most part? Even if mixing is not a house rule he can still move for free (Avengers), share an AV, get or give a click (X-men, FF)..I think this is a great hulk.

That's my 2cents.

[Thorgrin]

Wow, people are just in a complaining mode as of late..

Smart Hulk. Probably more playable in 400+ matches. Paired up with Hydra/MoD/Sinister Syndicate and the stats are pretty good for him to share for everyone else. Pair him up with Defenders/X-Men/Fantastic Four w/Invisible girl or Vet Spiderman from IC. Or put in a Fantastic Four pog (Alicia Masters) to give some loving midway during the game. Leap/Climb to get back to the medic if needed, super strength to have an object (thus minimum of 3 damage) or at the very least, pick up an object that the stealth person is on so that anyone with RS or range will nail them....

Silver Surfer. If he runs up for 7 and does RS, does he really need another RS? More than likely he's close to hitting anyone on the board again, if he pushes then he'll be wherever he wants and doing decent damage. That and having an 18 with the good Dr. Strange in hindering terrain and the experienced Dr. Strange is all of a sudden a 21 defense figure. Yes, you could use rookie invisible girl to do the same. The difference is, Silver Surfer can actually do something and not just whimper in a corner if someone comes up to him.

Patch. A little different, but at least he doesn't cost a lot of points. perplex near the end is sort of nice as he's not just a total loss of an action to just regenerate.

Spider-Man (especially the vet) is pretty much right on the money. After taking 4 clicks of damage, he's back up to 18 defense with defend. Whereas most figures are starting to get to the point where their AVs are dropping to 8 or 9. Plus his AV is 11, again good for those other TA.

Venom maybe has a case to do 3 natural damage (with no perplex), but the perplex does make sense.

Overall, I think the figures are fine. I'm more disappointed in the January LEs than I am with the set so far. Perhaps Hulk could have gotten another click of life. Perhaps Surfer could have some other powers, but all in all, everything appears to be balanced so far.

[TyeDyeSamurai]

These figs are great. Why analyze everything into submission?

I love new arrangements of stats and powers. If every fig was perfectly playable there would be no strategy. The best part of the game is finding a new strategy for each figure.
Some figs can works on their own, some figs need a team... of course every fig won't be the perfect fighting force on their own.

All these new stats look great and I can't wait to work them into new teams... whether their use is obvious or whether it takes a little thought and planning.

[Batman1983]

Vet Spiderman is perfect!

[thugit]

Vet Spidey is right on the money--finally. ;)

Silver Surfer is Superman's new....shall we say Lois Lane.

Smart Hulk: SUCKS. Easily the worst Hulk they've made. Savage Hulk is still the man.

Patch: enh. Don't care.

Venom: Another dissapointment. He's going to be WAAAAY to easy to smack around. Should have had SS, then toughness.

[VandalSavage]

Originally posted by Sweetcurse
Like I say, they make the unknowns good and the stars bad. Such is the life of HC!:(

I agree completely with this.....

How in the World does Marrow do 3 damage with a Bone, but the Hulk does 2 damage with a BIG FREAKIN CANNON !!!! Hulk doing 2 damage for a good amount of his dial is insulting...Also, why is it that the designers feel that Hulk is unable to start with INV. or IMPV....If any of the versions had this, the smart Hulk certainly could have!!

Ulik the Troll, would whip Hulk ....No Problem...According to the Designers at Wizkids....

They put Hulk and Spidey in every set...everyone wants to play their favorite characters, but to really win at the game people play next to unknowns like Ulik, Despero, and the like...

Mr. Savage

[thugit]

Yeah, it's pretty screwed up. Spidey should be fun to use, though. And cheap.

Venom, Hulk, and Surfer are quite underwhelming, though.

[VandalSavage]

Originally posted by Manchine
Ahh
Hulk --- Perfect. Leadership which he should have. Little bit of battle fury makes perfect sense.


Yes, He should have Leadership, but he is far from Perfect...Your doubting the 3 damage on Patch, so how do you feel with Marrow doing 3? Or most of Indy?


Mr. Savage

[TyeDyeSamurai]

HULK SMASH... if that be OK with you... I think...

:(

[thugit]

I'm just happy that SOD Superman is still king of the hill.

For a while I was worried...

:)

[coad14]

surfer sucks!!!

well, that might be a bad way of saying it. he could have been made better for his points. he needed a higher attack ( at least 13, he's stronger than thor!), more running shot, and higher damage( at least one 5).

never the less, he is still near the top of my need to have list.

what can you do, huh?

[WarHULK]

Alright, here's my feelings:

I'm interested in all the figures except for Patch, but that's just because I'm not the biggest Wolvie fan.

Silver Surfer looks great in my opinion. I enjoy the stats and powers. Great to have a really high Def. Defender finally. Support is welcomed by me since I don't play generic medics. An 8 and two 7s for Support are good. I like the regen placed before the end aswell. On a good roll you can get to his best clicks. PC is a must to have around him for such an important roll.

Hulk... Well, as a Hulk fan you KNOW I'm going to be somewhat disappointed by this incarnation. I don't quite understand the lack of CCE with 2 - 3 damage throughout his dial. BF on the Professor Hulk?? I believe he'll be good/great on mixed teams (Batman/mystics Hulk?) but instraight Marvel he's looking pretty costly for his stats I'm afraid.

Patch? Well, he'll definately be a good damage sponge. His vet has Toughness for 6 clicks with 2 clicks of regen at the end. BCF will make him good for defending his MM buddy if someone gets in close and the Perplex will be good for giving a little boost when needed.

Spidey, the best spidey thus far, though I'm still convinced he's being done wrong. As someone else said, 1 damage with CCE is key. SS isn't really part of his typical MO. He doesn't typically swing in and wallop someone with a motorcycle. dual Inc. 6 range, 18 def. SS, LC 1 damage CCE. That's Spiderman.

Venom, the best for last. Rookie - Cheap Cheap LC/Super Strength Combo. Excellent movement, high enough attack to put the hurt on, perplex and toughness. After a good smack he gets frisky with a little BCF and takes one for the team. Good figure to help clear out the steathers and sacrifice himself for the greater good (or evil, most likely). Exp - Becomes Pushable. 10 attack for two clicks, Perplex for two, SS for longer, higher Defense and a click of regen at the end. Vet - Becomes even more pushable. First two clicks are almost identical. Attack abilities to the end of the dial and two clicks of Regen at the end, a huge difference... much easier to hit the clicks and get your self healing. Lethal throughout, 9 click life with toughness through more than half of it, making him a pretty long lasting figure. All in all a great deal in all his versions.

"We are Venom! We will eat his brains!"

[VandalSavage]

Originally posted by Manchine


Let me add a one of my own.

Why does Batman have 3 damage? He shouldnt.

Wow !! You really don't know anything about Batman, Do you???

Mr. Savage

[Manchine]

Originally posted by thugit
I'm just happy that SOD Superman is still king of the hill.

For a while I was worried...

:)

Dormammu beats SOD Superman. Now HSS Sup's is the king of the hill in most cases.

I know enough about batman. Most people will agree he needs a natural 2 damage with an increase in attack, unless its a unique. No I dont like Marrow having 3 damage, except for her LE. I dont think we have seen Marrow's Dial yet. Just the LE. As for Indy Dials I dont count that LOL.

[DreadDormammu]

Originally posted by Iceman425
Hulk-Man ... can you imagine a Stealthed hulk with an 8 range doin' 3-4 damage for the most part?When he has 4 damage, he has Battle Fury. So no ranged attacks.

Originally posted by Thugit
Venom: Another dissapointment. He's going to be WAAAAY to easy to smack around. Should have had SS, then toughness.I disagree on Super Senses. He had the anti-Spider Sense that nullified Spidey's SS, but he never had SS of his own.

Originally posted by WarHULK
He doesn't typically swing in and wallop someone with a motorcycle. dual Inc. 6 range, 18 def. SS, LC 1 damage CCE. That's Spiderman.I'd have 1+CCE on his first click and then 0+CCE for the rest. Maybe a natural 2 and Flurry at the end (since CCE doesn't work with flurry :p).

[WarHULK]

Oh, with regaurds to the person who questioned Nightcrawler having a higher movement than Flash the answer is simple; Nightcrawler instantly teleports to a location. Being Instantly transported somewhere is still faster then Flash running somewhere. Nightcrawler really should have had a huge movement if they were to keep him true to comic form. Flash should have also had a much higher movement then he was given, though it should still be afew steps behind NCs instant teleportation.

Ok, I'm done... just had to defend my favorite Xmen character in the comics (though he's definately not my favorite Xmen clix figure).

[Bob_Wk]

I'm not the authority of clixdom but these figs look certainly playable. Alot of people look at figs and their single uses than as a whole team. Remember people you always start with a full pizza not just one slice....take a look

Spidey...looks cool...would like to play a themed all spidey team now. The thought of him jacking stealthed chars of their items makes me happy. I wish they would make him similar to batman and have the double incap and 2 outwit at the begining 2 clix,then 1 click of 2dmg cce then down to 1dmgcce for the next few then back to outwit or shape change :)..after 4 clix of the double incap give him ss.

Patch...definitely a MM piece...wish he had the spidey ability so i could have my F4 team(never gonna happen especially without ghost rider) wish he had a click or 2 more of 3dmg but he's still coo. like spidey i wanna play an all wolvie team.

hulk...he is the team hulk...imagine skrull hulk...syndicate hulk to share those big AVs with and him with the fantastic 4.....he's gonna be a real good team player. try him themed you may like him. his stats are still better than fixits. And an all hulk team has its range finally booyah!

venom...my new MM friend...no syndicate no prob (hurts my feelings tho but i knew about this 2 months ago I got over it) will be very playable. low points as well.

Silver surfer...upset no...wish he had more yes...but thanos is my alltime favorite marvel char and they are about a match. in high point games line chromedome next to DOOM and his minions to share that fat dv or have doom throw him in the way and asorb that blow then blast the guy back for a perplexed 5dmg. yowza!....many different ways to play him....i can see some 300pt action still with him.

over all I think individually they could have been better but for team purposes they should be fine. i cant wait to see diablo..warlock..ronan..betaray..umar..sersi..rhino...I lurve this set.

[admironheart]

Is spidey one of the cheaper figs with SS? and leap/climb...so he runs up to batman, picks up the object and smashes bats for 4 clicks!! Not to shabby

Surfer if fine...He can take a lot more punishment than Thor, but he really never was the best at dealing damage, say like a firelord/thor... and as Thorgin said, DR. strange and the defenders ability will show up a lot with surfer. Strange's enhancement will make surfer rough!! Remember that the Impervious in the middle will help to neuter out wit so much.
sure one character may belt him, but then the next has to deal with the new defensive powers.

I love this set...just will have to get rid of that spidey sculpt and mod a new one..and take the Venom and get rid of that goofy pedastal. I just think the whole Hulk/professor thing is rediculous in any form.

I am happy;)

wes

[RedShoulder]

Hmmm... Well going through the list numerically:

PATCH- I find it interesting that the Experienced and Veteran don't have Regenration sooner. I think these are the only versions of him that can't get back up to full strength. Considering that his AV is only 8 starting, that may not be such a big deal, but his DV an Movement suffer. Lots of Stealth and the Perplex is nice.

SPIDER-MAN- I guess he's learned to slap the enemy with the forklift first and web them up later. The starting DV for the Rookie feels low, but having 17 in the middle of the dial can be a big help. His DV dropping to 13 on all versions bothers me. Nightwing stays harder to hit, but whatever. It's good to have a cheaper version with the TA that also has Super Strength and Super Senses. For the nay-sayers, well... wait for the next set. You know we'll be seeing him again!

VENOM- The Rookie version... well, feels like a Rookie. The Experienced version gets a good boost in abilities. The Veteran is pretty much what I expected from Venom. I've never collected much Spider-Man and don't have the same emotional investment in the character, but I can see playing the Veteran alot. I even like his pose. It makes him feel crazy...

ULIK- He's a tank. I can see many players using him in place of any brick that they feel has been slighted. Super Strength and Invulnerability/Toughness for his whole dial. Good numbers all around and then 5, 6 and 7 clicks of CCE. OUCH!

HULK- Well, I thought the clicks with only 2 Damage were kind of strange, considering the guns he's carrying. There are Police, Henchmen and plenty of other generics that can shoot for as much. Having an AV that only dips into single digits for the last click isn't bad though. Even Despero can't say that. While there is something basically wrong with the Hulk teaming up with Batman, Leaping from one hiding place to another and shooting people on the next turn just to Push him into his better clicks, I think we all know it's coming...

SILVER SURFER- So with the Surfer having a high DV all the way down his dial, people are going to have a tough time hitting a smartly played Defenders team. People complaining about his lack of Attack powers... I suppose the could have given him Energy Explosion, but how much woud that have jacked up his price having Speed 14, Running Shot and 2 targets? Making a herald of Galactus playable and balanced is not likely to be easy. We also have to take into account which time period this version is taken from. Obviously he isn't at his most powerful. The same holds true for many other characters (Phoenix comes to mind)... With the Surfer and Dr. Strange both having Support, I think the Defenders are going to be pretty tough. Now I want Hellcat, Nighthawk and the Valkyrie.

VAL-OR- A Moloid with Master Mind and Leadership... who'da thunk it?

HEPZIBAH- Reminds me of an IndyClix dial. Only 4 click for the LE. I wonder how many the R/E/V get...

SARAH- This LE I actually want. Another regenerating X-Man! I hope the Veteran has Stealth somewhere along the way...

MAJOR CHRISTOPHER SUMMERS- Nice cheap Willpower. Seems workable. Now they just have to do Alex...

CALYPSO EZILI- Cheap PC. I'll wait for the R/E/Vs before passing judgement.

WARREN WORTHINGTON III- Okay... so this version has blue skin, range 6, 2 targets, Incapacitate, ES/D and the X-Men TA. So where exactly do he and the Experienced versions fit into the continuity?

SERGEI KRAVINOV- ...He's like a 6 click version of Batman with Toughness instead of Willpower, and a decent AV... Was this planned?

NEBULA- Impressive range, 2 shots, Incapacitate... Surround her with Kree Soldiers and put Mastermaind and the S.H.I.E.L.D. TA to work?


I don't know about everyone else, but I plan to get a lot of good use out of this set. I'm sure we will be tting reports from Wizard World Texas soon enough...

[Captain K.]

Hulk - nice attack values, but the damage is very un-Hulky. A Hulk who's shut down by someone with Invulnerability? It's all about the team ability on this guy.

Silver Surfer - surprisingly similar to Thanos. Better, but not much better than Thanos. I think the Surfer's fans will be crying about this one. One bright note - he is awesome for the Defenders team.

Venom - Super-Strength to B/C/F is an interesting combination. We'll have to try this one out to see how it plays. Looks like the best of this set of previews.

Spider-Man - the people who've been begging for Super Strength got it. Along with a horribly unplayable Spidey. Only the Vet looks remotely interesting.

Patch - an Indyclix that snuck through. What exactly are we supposed to do with the Perplex at the end?

[DreadDormammu]

Retardog's formula comes up with a cost of 177 for Silver Surfer (very close!). If you add two more clicks of Running Shot, the cost goes to 199. So he might have been a 195ish fig with 3 clicks of RS. Worth it or not?

Retardog's formula comes up with a cost of 107 for V Spidey, which is way off of 88! Here's how I would have done his Vet, which comes in at 111 with the formula, so perhaps 95ish by WizKids method.

MOV: 10 9 8 8 7 7 6 6 5
ATT: 11 10 9 8 8 7 7 6 8
DEF: 17 18 16 16 15 15 14 14 13
DAM: 1 0 0 0 2 1 1 1 2
RNG: 6 w/ 2 targets

Has L/C and SS until the very end when fatigue sets in. Does virtually no damage at range, but has a longer stretch of Outwit based fighting. He does more ranged damage then to represent knocking things over on people or slinging bricks with webs, etc. He will slow 'em down with webs at the start. At the end he gets desperate and uses heavy objects and finally a berserker fury (that's how he beat Firelord!).

[VandalSavage]

Originally posted by Manchine

I know enough about batman. Most people will agree he needs a natural 2 damage with an increase in attack, unless its a unique. No I dont like Marrow having 3 damage, except for her LE. I dont think we have seen Marrow's Dial yet. Just the LE. As for Indy Dials I dont count that LOL.


I have not seen Marrow's Dial either, except for the LE, but even a LE should not have 3....


Mr. Savage

[ItsNotMe]

For those of you wondering why Spider-Man has defend...

Page 21 of 22
Panel 1 - Spider-Man is creeping into a warehouse with Black Cat.

Spider-man [whisper balloon]: The Rhino has to be hiding around here somewhere!

Panel 2 - Close up of Spider-man with "spidey-sense" effect around head.

Spider-man [thought balloon]: My Spidey-Sense is going crazy!

Panel 3 - Spider-man spots a bomb with a timer counting down. Its now at three seconds.

Spider-man: It's a trap!

Page 22:

Splash page of explosion with sound effect.

---
Next month....

Page 1:
Spider-Man is helping Black Cat out of the rubble of the destroyed warehouse.

Black Cat: Good thing you spotted that bomb!

---

And the Surfer is great. With a dial that steady in stats he's going to be a dominant force on the battlefield right to the end.

[WarHULK]

You know, I find it funny that people are comparing the Surfer to Thanos. Surfer has 3+ damage for all but four of his clicks, Thanos does 2 damage for 6 clicks out of his 11... that's sad. Silver Surfer has more important things to do on the four clicks below 3 damage, such as Regen and Support. Thanos does 4 damage for one click, Surfer for three clicks. Surfer has one less click of Inv. but has two clicks of Imp. that Thanos never even gets, not to mention another click of Regen (a good roll on Regen gets Surfer back to his best damage/Imp. clicks, btw, where as Thanos is still stuck in 2 damage land even with a full regen roll). Surfer defeats Thanos is Movement, Defense (stays much more stable) and Damage, all for less and with more and better abilities. Thanos is a shame in comparison my friends, a true shame.

[VandalSavage]

Originally posted by WarHULK
Oh, with regaurds to the person who questioned Nightcrawler having a higher movement than Flash the answer is simple; Nightcrawler instantly teleports to a location. Being Instantly transported somewhere is still faster then Flash running somewhere. Nightcrawler really should have had a huge movement if they were to keep him true to comic form. Flash should have also had a much higher movement then he was given, though it should still be afew steps behind NCs instant teleportation.


No, Flash is WAY faster than Nightcrawler....True Nightcrawler teleports...up to a 2 mile distance or something to that effect...Flash can run 100x farther in the same instant....No contest in speed.

Mr. Savage

[RedShoulder]

Yeah, I think most of us who have read any Thanos stories think he needs to be redone...

[The Werle]

The power cosmic at his disposal and they still can't deam the surfer worthy of a single attack power. One click of running shot is balls, even with a 14 movement.

Patch < Logan, therefore Logan will continue to see use while patch will just look cool. maybe he'll get played on a nick fury-cyclops one eye team.

HULK SUCK BIG TIME. PSM Hulk is strongest of all!

Why oh why can't spidey do more damage, or have more range? They've got the right idea with venom, give my boy some perplex, or CCE expert, but by god for 88 points I need a figure that can put the hurt on people.

Venom I like.

[WarHULK]

200 miles in the blink of an eye, eh? Sure would like to see that...

[DreadDormammu]

Originally posted by WarHULK
Oh, with regaurds to the person who questioned Nightcrawler having a higher movement than Flash the answer is simple; Nightcrawler instantly teleports to a location. Being Instantly transported somewhere is still faster then Flash running somewhere.Effectively it is slower because Nightcrawler has human perceptions. It reminds me of the recent JLA where the Flash moves hundreds of thousands of people half a mile in like 30 seconds. I love Nightcrawler, but he will never have the battlefield mobility of the Flash.

Originally posted by admironheart
Is spidey one of the cheaper figs with SS? and leap/climb...so he runs up to batman, picks up the object and smashes bats for 4 clicks!!Actually, Spidey runs up to Batman and picks up the object. Then Batman outwits SS and incaps Spidey. Following turn Batman hits Spidey for 3, leaving him unable to hold the object. Spidey hits back for 2 and now Batman is doing 4 w/ CCE. :ermm: Of course, Batman is lucky to ever hit Spidey with his 9 AV! :grin:

[RedShoulder]

I still say the version of the Flash they have is right after Wally took on the name, early on in hs own book. He was rather slow during that time period. Back then he had trouble breaking the sound barrier if I recall. Otherwise Wally is faster than Jay Garrick. Translating any speedster's movement into a game with a map is usally a nightmare.

In HeroClix, Green Goblin can beat Wally in a race. Green Goblin can Perplex his Movement to 11 and use Willpower to move 2 out of every 3 turns. Wally get's left in the dust quickly...

[VandalSavage]

Originally posted by WarHULK
200 miles in the blink of an eye, eh? Sure would like to see that...


Well, Read a Flash comic....

Mr. Savage

[DreadDormammu]

Originally posted by The Werle
The power cosmic at his disposal and they still can't deam the surfer worthy of a single attack power. One click of running shot is balls, even with a 14 movement.You don't give someone an Attack power just because they need an Attack power. None of them are appropriate for the Silver Surfer, so why have them? He definitely needs more Running Shot though. Would have been neat if he had 1 click of HSS and 2 clicks of RS. ;)

[GonzoDracus]

actually.. he would go so fast.. you wouldnt be able to... ;-)

[HereticAsian]

flash moves at the speed of light he is capable of traveling through time.

do you know how fast that is? 186 000 miles per second.

earth's circumference is 24,901.5 miles. Flash is capable of instantly being anyway on earth.

nightcrawler can only teleport at max 2 miles.


Where every nightcrawler teleports flash will be there first.

And dont' forget, nightcrawler needs to think to teleporth. Flash and also superman is faster then the speed of thought.

[Phantom]

Wow... this is strange. I seem to have the opposite views of everyone else on the board, at least on the first three pages.

Everyone likes the Spidey, whereas I thought his defense on the Vet should have at least gone to 17 like Daredevil.

Everyone hates the Hulk -- I thought he was a good candidate for Perplex, and with his AV only goes below 10 on his last click!

Everyone hates Surfer. I see a monster if he hits that Regen click and your opponent doesn't get him off of it. He can potentially get right back to that sweet spot of 4 damage, 10 attack, and 17 defense with Impervious.

And Venom will be ugly. Finally Spider-Man gets an Arch-Enemy to be proud of! Patch... eh. They nailed the character with Logan, and everything else since then has just been lukewarm.

[AlaskanXIII]

Want to comment on these figures but I feel I'll just add to the general swell of disappointment - which in itself should be indicative of a problem to any Wizkids reps in the neighborhood... Ah, well, I can't resist.

I will say that Venom is the most well-done of the group. Answer me this, though: why is Logan, the deadliest close-combat character in the Marvel-universe for skill and training, less accurate than Eddie Brock, who's running on pure muscle and rage? Likewise, how does Patch do MORE base damage than massive ol' symbiote-boy?

Surfer. Yeah. One click of RS for 173 pts. I'll see him on lots of teams. Sure, he'd be nasty on a team full of perplexers and enhancers. Oh, wait, who wouldn't, and for a fraction of the cost?

Hey, those of you who think this Hulk is well-done: he's paying a lot of points for those cannons, which he can't even use for the best part of his dial. Battle Fury is appropriate for Hulk, you say. Perhaps. But this the smartest, most cool-headed version of Big Green to date. And compare him to the freakin SAVAGE-I'm-losing-my-sanity-to-berserker-blood-rage-HULK, who has not a single click of it! C'mon, Designers, at least LOOK at previous figures when you make new characters!!!

Sheesh.

[Dr. Morbius]

something people are missing out is that Spidey and Venom are ARCHENEMIES (they both come with a white base).
I know because I saw them in Essen.
So don't complain about Venom not having a Spidey TA :noid:

However Venom(v) with 84 Pts and Black Spidey from IC with 116 Pts make up a kewl 200 Pts team...where Spidey can share his 18 Defense with Venom :grin:

It should have been the black costume Spidey who was archenemies with Venom (McFarlane era).

Still...I like the Spidey and Venom.
I don't care about Hulk (I'll try to get a Savage Hulk and then I'll be pleased)...Patch? I have Berserker Wolverine and Logan(v) what do I want Patch for. Surfer? I won't have the luck to pull him anyways so I don't even think about his stats.

Dr. Morbius :devious:

[DOOMSTRIKER]

i hated this hulk from the minute i heard of him, and patch, yawn, surfer is cool,and not under powered, this aint the comics, its a game, but spidey and venom are must haves for me (along with exp. moonknight, ulik, and a rhino)

[skyounkin]

To complain or not to complain that is the question......no it isn't, not really, despite me liking or not liking these stats I know I won't have the willpower to stop myself from getting the entire set:ermm:

[Darkskaven]

I'm really pleased by all these characters. This Spider-Man is really different from the IC one (I don't count the Uniques which are hard to get) and that's what interested me.
Same for Patch and Hulk : these aren't the same versions than the previous ones, and that's all I wanted Wizkids to do

Silver Surfer : a bit expensive but I find him fine like this. It's a real monster (with that range a good player could use him very effectively) and more RS could have been too much for the game balance. Don't need too much figures which can shoot you from the other side of the map without any way to hit him. Everybody's don't play in tournaments with always 3-4 outwitters and Vet Mandarin ! Guys, think about non-tournaments players ! With the NAAT rules, 14 movement plus RS with 10 range is really powerful. This figure doesn't need to have more RS so it can shoot from this range two turns in a row without loosing his power.

Venom : don't know much about the character. The figure seems playable and fun. Good for me too.

Good job Wizkids and thank you for the preview !!

[Auron]

Hulk - interesting, shame about the battle fury making the range useless

Surfer - Great clix, very pushable, r/shot for 2 damage and then push for more next turn when in range.

Venom - Perfect, excatly the way he should be.

Patch - Logan is still the best wolvie, but interesting nontheless, plus he looks cool.

Spiderman - the best yet, looks great to play.

Im really pleased about the set generally, my only worry is I dont know loads of the characters.

[Auron]

Hulk - interesting, shame about the battle fury making the range useless

Surfer - Great clix, very pushable, r/shot for 2 damage and then push for more next turn when in range.

Venom - Perfect, excatly the way he should be.

Patch - Logan is still the best wolvie, but interesting nontheless, plus he looks cool.

Spiderman - the best yet, looks great to play.

Im really pleased about the set generally, my only worry is I dont know loads of the characters.

[DOOMSTRIKER]

i think the only thing i could do with patch, is cut him up and use his better detailed parts to make a custom logan
(his claws look sweet, not like logans odd sized tooth picks)

[the itsy bit]

well..

Patch, IF he started with perplex he would have been a viable option. second BCF's and 3 damage (without a ranged attack) is kind of silly.

Smart Hulk, Spidey team is ok. Hulk with a gun/bazooka/whatever is laughable at best (what WK proved here), so I never liked that anyways.

Spidey: still waiting for the 1 damage CCE,2 arrows Inc. WITH Spidey TA and 18 DV.
this Vet. Spidey is fun, but way too expensive (dump the defend ability).

Silver Surfer, have never been a fan of him though he looks solid and he got the DEFENDER TA !!

Venom, I especially like the Exp. because of his regenerate.
SS then BCF's is OK.

[LabRat]

They're getting closer to my version of Spidey, this is the best and most playable IMHO...

However, I still don't like the idea of SS on Spidey, maybe a click or two in the middle but 4 clicks is too much, it's not in his character to have that... I'd rather have a Spidey with double Incap and no SS clicks... And I don't get Defend, why does he have it? Is is because of his web-shields? I agree with other people here, give 'em double Incapacitate, Leap/Climb, Supersenses with a high DV and Willpower at the last click, average AV... I don't want 1 Damage + CCE though, because it can be Outwitted... 2 damage with Outwit clicks near the middle and at the end would be nice...

Surfer is disappointing, just like Thanos is... I expected more Running Shot on him... He's okay though...

Venom looks nice and tough...

[LDK]

This new version of Hulk is the WORST so far. Were they drunk when they made this one up? Do they even know who the Hulk is? This version is supposed to be the Professor Hulk who is probably the strongest version of the Hulk out there not including the Maestro. He has the savage Hulks power Mr. Fixit's cunning and mean streak and Banners intellect. This Hulk though that they made doesn't reflect any of that. He barely does more than 2 clicks of damage, he has no defense to speak of and they didn't even give him bloody Impervious. There's no regeneration, he only has 9 clix and they give him that stupid useless battle fury. He barely moves faster than a snail, what a load of carp! I'm so dissapointed I dont even know if I want to buy this new set.

[thugit]

Originally posted by Manchine
Dormammu beats SOD Superman. Now HSS Sup's is the king of the hill in most cases.



Not if SOD gets the first shot in, and yes, a good player will make sure that happens.

Batman should have 3 damage. READ THE COMICS. He's the baddest non powered hero out there, and HE LIKES TO HURT PEOPLE.

Flash is so much faster than Nightcrawler it's not even funny. Anyone who says otherwise should read some Flash comics sometime. He can move faster than people THINK.

BTW--None of the above are intended as insults to anyone here.

[Keleko]

I'm looking at R-Venom and R-Spider-man as excellent harrassment figures. Venom's 8 clicks for 55 points is really nice.

I think Patch is playable. He's not a main attacker like the other Wolverines/Logan is. He's backup and support. Push him to get into place to get to 3 damage. When he gets hit, he gets perplex for filling a support role. A great "bait" piece.

Silver Surfer is fine with me. I'm glad he has a high defense with his impervious and invulnerability since he'll never get to use those powers (they always get outwitted). At least that way it still takes a good hitter to hurt him.

[IceHot]

--- extract from WARDEN post -------

3rd Figure - V Rhino - 122pts - #48

I've never read any of the Ultimate stuff but I do know that the Rhino
of old didn't look like this. Now as a great fan of the original 'thick
as s***' Rhino I am a bit disappointed that we have got this mean
fighting machine, but like the Ultimate Green Goblin this is a very
serious piece. Charge and SS are no surprise, but INV was and who
expected CCE! And at less points than Ulik he may see more play than the
nasty little troll. Possibly the best sealed booster figure so far...


Finally
V- Calypso - 46pts - #30

Meaner than the LE version on the WK website Calypso adds MC to the
mix, and for extra fun throws in TK mid-dial. Not sure how this will
work in the game (where TK is often used for early positioning and
attacks) but then again this set is going to give the tactics used a
right stir. Damage and a ranged attack puts Calypso more in the Scarlet
Witch category rather than as a replacement for Destiny so it depends on
whether you want your PCer to do something other than change die rolls.

Well - that's 2 down and quite a few more to go. quite pleased with
what I've seen so far, with only R Corsair being a truly uninspiring
piece but that won't bother the X-Fans who'll want every character ever
published.
If anyone wants more I'll open another box later...

[Ignatz_Mouse]

Surfer is great, in my opinion.

Yes, he only has one click of RS, but once he's in range, he doesn't need it as much. His defense is awesomely high, even without defensive powers. Outwit his INV and hit him and a good chance he lands on his IMP. And RS with a MV of 14 and range of 10? There is no hiding from the Surfer.

[Silver Lantern]

What a bunch of whiners you guys are. :) Look this is a game, and the main thing for me is having fun. I prefer to focus on what will be fun for me, than to dwell on the negative. I will have A LOT of fun playing Surfer and Cap Marvel, and Warlock, regardless of whether their figs are insany good or completely medicore. :)

Seriously, the figs mostly look good to me.

PATCH: very poorly made figure, as everyone has said, but how much can you do with a guy who basically does the SAME thing in the comics over and over. I wish Wizkids would realize this and stop re-making wolverines. What's the point when they are making expensive garbage versions like patch anyway.

HULK: doesn't seem too bad. Sure his damage is WAY TOO LOW, for hulk, but look at the brightside: he can still use objects at ALL times. His AV is 10+ for 8 CLICKS. No sorry butt activation clicks, wildcard, 8 range, leadership, and SS, LC, & Damage reduction DOWN THE DIAL. I mean he's not Nightcrawler, but he's also not awful. My only complaint is the WHEN will they make a Hulk with charge. He's the freakin HULK for thor's sake. :)

ULIK: The most solid fig in the set so far for the points.

VENOM: looks cool and VERY playable. The fact that he can do 5 damage all on his own is pretty good. Perplex, range, BCF, Regeneration, Toughness, LC, SStrengh = VERY playable IMO. I don't think the damage complaints are justifiable, because he has SS, PERPLEX, AND BCF, so damage will not be his problem if anything.

SPIDEY: FINALLY, FINALLY, FINALLY, They got Spiderman RIGHT!!! This version looks AWESOME. Completely SURPASSED MY EXPECTATIONS. The vet is INSANE IMO. He will be VERY playable. He is TRULLY Versatile, which is what Spidey should be. More Super Strength like we all wanted, Super senses to start like we all wanted, Wildcard, that final boost click, Incapacite, outwit, LC, Flurry, 2 damage down the dial on the vet, range, he is AWESOME. The best SURPRISE is the Defend in the middle of the dial (with LC btw). Trust me that will be HUGE in games. 18 Defense on his 5TH CLICK is great, throw in defend and it's insane. Thank you wizkids for finally getting it right.
People, understand that there are thousands of HC players and they all have their own unique ideas of how figs should be, this Spiderman is CLOSE ENOUGH to how most people wanted it I think. And at only 88 points, the Vet is STRONG IMO.

SURFER: This is probably my favorite comic character of all times, and I am pretty happy with his HC version. The main complaints seem to be 1) he's too vanilla, and 2) too little RS.
As for RS, hey 1 click is better that no clicks IMO. And it happens to be the MOST RS distance of ANY fig in existance. 17 Range is tops for Marvel, and it's not shabby AT ALL. Besides, once he running shots, he can stay there and whoop people down. He will usually be carrying around an E Defender beast who can perplex his damage, range, or move (to RS 18 squares)! Besides, people should be used to 1 click RS by now with such great figs as Super Skrull having it.

While I agree he does look too vanilla, well look at it this way: There are a ton of powers he can arguably have: EE, HSS, RCE, Super Strength, Pulse Wave, Defend, Forceblast, Willpower, and barrier to name some. But then he would cost 300-400 points +, and would be near impossible to play.

As is, He's a defender, which we defenitely needed, he does 4 damage for 3 clicks which is pretty good. He has mid dial regeneration, 6 CLICKS of 2 damage reduction, and the ability to avoid hits at all with Impervious. All his numbers are VERY steady dropping: he DOES NOT have a glass jaw at all. He has great range with 2 targets. He is VERY perplexable, and the support is just icing on the cake as far as I'm concerned. The only thing I would have liked was a boost at the end like Spidey. Surfer has been beat down at the beginning a lot in comics, and towards the end he draws upon the Power Cosmic to lay down the righteous SMACKDOWN, that is what I would have liked to have seen represented, but I still love him as it is.

THANKS YOU SO MUCH WIZKIDS FOR MAKING SOME GREAT FIGS.

[secretwarrior]

WOULD EVERYBODY JUST CALM DOWN AND READ MY SIGNATURE PLEASE.

thank you

[FoxInStocks]

Originally posted by thugit
Batman should have 3 damage. READ THE COMICS. He's the baddest non powered hero out there, and HE LIKES TO HURT PEOPLE.

Plus, he's got plenty of weapons to help him put the hurt on. Electric, exploding batarangs for his range attack, and then brass knuckles and other items help with the close combat.

HOWEVER...

That click of 3 damage with CCE on V Batman is a bit much. Even I have to admit that, and I'm a big bat-fan.

[mark6574]

Okay, I stopped reading around page 6 or 7 because it was getting very repetative. I think that if you just looked at these dials without knowing any history of the actual character, you would think they were very good. A lot of you are basing your opinion of whether these are goods figs on whether or not it matches your idea of the character. You have to be honest.... if you just look at the dials, they are some pretty impressive pieces.

On another note, everyone complains that every Spider-man should have Spidey team. I think that the Spider-Man team represents someone who is always working with others. Spidey doesn't always do that. He works solo quite often, so not every one of his figures needs to be on the team.

[Manchine]

Originally posted by thugit
Not if SOD gets the first shot in, and yes, a good player will make sure that happens.



Only way he can get the first shot in. Is if your playing against someone thats not equal caliber. SOD Sup's wont ever get the first hit in. So thats easy.

[Darth Sabre]

Well, I'm liking the Spidey stats, and hopefully the fanboys can quit their crying. HE'S VERY PLAYABLE NOW! :)

The Hulk...meh..I guess he's alright. Nothing worth being excited about. The LE is still the best (Not Banner, the other one), and most playable one.

Venom is sweet!

Patch is great.

Surfer....lol...Upgraded Thanos,IMHO. A let down, for all the cool stuff they could've done with an otherwise lame character.

[seven]

the thing that will kill the hulks playablility IMO is his DV. 16 is nothing to crow about but I can live with it. The string of 14,13,14 in the middle of his dial is WAY to easy to hit. Comics wise i understand it. He gets hit alot and relys on invulnerability to keep him in the fight. Game-wise though it just makes him way to easy to hit. I like the mix of powers though it makes for a new piece.

In short I wish that they added a couple extra points to him in order to up his DV in the middle of the dial.

[SimonMoon5]

Originally posted by CosmicTom
As a big Silver Surfer afficionado, I'm pretty dissapointed.
...
Oh, well, I'll still have to get him, and have him tote around E Doc Strange,

FCCF, heh. :)

[GammaBomb]

The numgers on Sufer look good, but the colors are a bit... lacking. He's cosmically aware, that should give him something like Outwit, Probability Control, or Perplex maybe. Incapacitate and Energy Explosion would have been nice. He's definately going to be a new favorite Hooker assassin for me though.

V Spidey looks good.

Venom and Patch... eh.

Hulk!?!?! If that figure was going to be that retarded they should have atleast modeled the bunny slippers onto him. Whats he carrying? A squirt gun? Sometimes I think Wizkids just chucks darts at a wall of colors. For the next Hulk, take a good look at where Charge is on the color wall before throwing that dart. A movement of 20 would be nice ;-) (and somewhat accurate).

[Thorgrin]

But you're own previous statements is that Dormammu totally owns up on Dark Supes now (paraphrasing). That's not the case. In an outdoor map, Supes can have people use barrier to put around Dormmammu so that you can't do the same if you have barrier and then next round, Supes charges to do 7 points.

Sorry, but SOD Supes is still very viable. Dormammu is a good piece as well, but a lot of people are going up in arms yet again.

I remember in the not so distant past that everyone was thinking Phoenix was going to be the most awesome piece because of her 12 range... As far as I've seen, I really don't see her played very much for all the hype...

Originally posted by Manchine
Only way he can get the first shot in. Is if your playing against someone thats not equal caliber. SOD Sup's wont ever get the first hit in. So thats easy.

[Greenandgold]

V Spidey - The best yet, but still not there. All they had to do was give him a first click DV of 17 or 18 and I would have loved it. Middle of the dial defend is a great twist. 2 arrows would be great, but I'm not holding my breath. Also, perplex at the top would be more applicable than outwit at the end for Spidey. Too bad they can't exchange one of his end of dial outwit clicks for a front of dial perplex.

I understand all the SS at the front of the dial. Done simply to keep his cost down.

Patch - Pointless.

Surfer - At least he is a Defenders

Venom - I am underwhelmed

Hulk - Interesting variation.

[Manchine]

Originally posted by Thorgrin
But you're own previous statements is that Dormammu totally owns up on Dark Supes now (paraphrasing). That's not the case. In an outdoor map, Supes can have people use barrier to put around Dormmammu so that you can't do the same if you have barrier and then next round, Supes charges to do 7 points.

Sorry, but SOD Supes is still very viable. Dormammu is a good piece as well, but a lot of people are going up in arms yet again.

I remember in the not so distant past that everyone was thinking Phoenix was going to be the most awesome piece because of her 12 range... As far as I've seen, I really don't see her played very much for all the hype...

Sorry but the same thing can happen to SOD Sup's. Sorry I already went through this. Its really easy for SOD Sup's to go down to Dormammu. Well not easy but the odds are in his favor about 3 to 1.

I am not talking about team building. Its to easy to say this can happen and that can happen. I am talking about 1 on 1. SOD Sup's will never get the first hit in.

SOD Sup's is a good option. He jsut cant beat Dormammu.

[The Vision]

They Nailed Spiderman! He is dead on what he should be. Compare his dial to any comic book fight and it rings true.

Surfer is much better than anyone is giving him credit for. There will be a few surpirses when the Nay sayers have to face him across the map.

Rookie Venom will see lots of play.

The Hulk looks good with a balanced dial. If you want 4 damage at range then get a Bullseye or a Cyclops or something. The Hulk is strongest when he is angry. When he is angry, he doesn't use guns.

Good Figs!

[lukebuchanan]

quit apologizing so much..........and sarcastic at that.

Luke B.

[MJlover]

OK, now that I'm finally finished reading all of the griping(although I had to skip a few pages), I can comment on, as some others have said also, what a bunch of whiners you guys are. I am a huge Silver Surfer fan, and I was very worried that they would mess him up. I even made my own dial for him by hand, and put it in a Yellowjacket. Of course my dial doesn't look a whole lot like their dial, but THEIRS IS STILL A GREAT DIAL! Yes he could have running shot for 2 more, and a higher AV, along with some others powers, but he's extremely hard to kill as it is.
I think people are missing the main point about his defensive powers. Yes, he can still be outwitted just like anyone else, but if he is and he gets hit for 3 or 4, now he's on imperv! So just try hitting him again.
Venom is good as expected, Spidey's not bad, Patch is kinda weird but ok, and yes, I'll grant you, Hulk sucks as a representation and as a click.

[miridor]

Quote AlaskanXIII:
"I will say that Venom is the most well-done of the group. Answer me this, though: why is Logan, the deadliest close-combat character in the Marvel-universe for skill and training, less accurate than Eddie Brock, who's running on pure muscle and rage? "
________________________________________________________

This is what I was trying to get at. Wolverine in one of the best close quarter combatants in the MU and Venom gets a better attack value? I know there is always the IC Unique but what gives here? I guess the same should be said for Cap, but that's a whole other topic.

[bullseye100]

silver surfer is alright, but he needs more running shot... Hulk is good, Spiderman good, venom good, patch is not so good...

[thugit]

Originally posted by Manchine
I am not talking about team building. Its to easy to say this can happen and that can happen. I am talking about 1 on 1. SOD Sup's will never get the first hit in.

SOD Sup's is a good option. He jsut cant beat Dormammu.


Whatever. If you think Dormammu can stand toe to toe with SOD, you're out of your mind. On a team, Dormammu might be able to do it. Not one on one. Not even close. If you read the preview, he doesn't get outwit untill the third click. The PB won't save him from the CCE.

Manchine, you mock everyone for being DC fanboys, and then you do the same thing. You just can't stand the fact that Superman and Batman would clean house on ANY two Marvel figures in the game.

SOD Superman + E Batman=2 dead Marvel figures.

[Manchine]

This is not being a fanboy. I really sorry you cant see it. One on one Dormammu beats SOD Sup's. It has nothing to do with starting outwit. Since there is no way, playing equal skilled players, SOD Sup's can get the first hit in.

1st turn Ok Superman Moves into range, holding a Heavy Object. What would make more sense is if he jsut base. So we will just have superman base him. Dormammu Psychic Blast him for 3. Superman is down to 9 move Super Strength Last kliq of Impervious and 4 Dam with CCE.

2nd turn Superman Pushes to Whack Dormammu for 6 . SO he's down 4. Gaining outwit and still having 3 damage and Invuln. Dormammu Psychic Blasts again for 3 damage and outwiting Superman's CCE. Sup's is down to 8th kliq. 3 damage. While Dormammu is on his 5th kliq.

3rd turn both pass, outwiting Sup's CCE.

4th turn Superman Punches Dormammu for 3 and takes him off his Invuln doing only 1 damage. Dormammu is on his 6th Kliq. Dormammu attacks Sup's doing 3 or 2 damage. Mroe then likely 3 but I will go 2, just in case. That puts Sup's on 10th Kliq. Dormammu outwits CCE.

5th Turn Superman Pushes and punches Dormammu. 1 Damage again due to toughness. Dormammu is on his 7th kliq. Dormammu kills SUperman this turn.

This is with Superman hitting everytime. Dormammu has slight better odds hitting then SOD sup's, jsut becuase he is able to get the first hit off.

:laugh: :p ;) :laugh: :p ;)

[Manchine]

PS You do have a point about Batman and Superman being the best 2 man team there is. I havent been able to figure out a way to beat that without using Sentinal.

:laugh: :p ;) :laugh: :p ;)

PSS Also only time I get the Marvel is better then DC is when DC Fanboys start tearing down Marvel. I have defended DC from Marvel Fanboys.

[AcidBath]

Originally posted by Manchine
1st turn Ok Superman Moves into range, holding a Heavy Object. What would make more sense is if he jsut base. So we will just have superman base him. Dormammu Psychic Blast him for 3. Superman is down to 9 move Super Strength Last kliq of Impervious and 4 Dam with CCE.

I never bought any Indy, so when I play I just use the old rules. Is there a new rule allowing based figures to make ranged attacks?

[thugit]

Originally posted by Manchine
This is not being a fanboy. I really sorry you cant see it. One on one Dormammu beats SOD Sup's. It has nothing to do with starting outwit. Since there is no way, playing equal skilled players, SOD Sup's can get the first hit in.

1st turn Ok Superman Moves into range, holding a Heavy Object. What would make more sense is if he jsut base. So we will just have superman base him. Dormammu Psychic Blast him for 3. Superman is down to 9 move Super Strength Last kliq of Impervious and 4 Dam with CCE.

2nd turn Superman Pushes to Whack Dormammu for 6 . SO he's down 4. Gaining outwit and still having 3 damage and Invuln. Dormammu Psychic Blasts again for 3 damage and outwiting Superman's CCE. Sup's is down to 8th kliq. 3 damage. While Dormammu is on his 5th kliq.

3rd turn both pass, outwiting Sup's CCE.

4th turn Superman Punches Dormammu for 3 and takes him off his Invuln doing only 1 damage. Dormammu is on his 6th Kliq. Dormammu attacks Sup's doing 3 or 2 damage. Mroe then likely 3 but I will go 2, just in case. That puts Sup's on 10th Kliq. Dormammu outwits CCE.

5th Turn Superman Pushes and punches Dormammu. 1 Damage again due to toughness. Dormammu is on his 7th kliq. Dormammu kills SUperman this turn.

This is with Superman hitting everytime. Dormammu has slight better odds hitting then SOD sup's, jsut becuase he is able to get the first hit off.



You're hoping for lots of outwit and 3 damage. If he doesn't have several clicks of outwit and 3 damage till his 8 or 9th click, Supes still wins.

Also, I absolutely love when people play Sentinels against Batman teams. No easier points to be found. :cool:

[davenappy]

*sigh*
Here we go, let the fanboys go to town...
I count myself among the number of Marvel Zombies on this board. I am very uncomfortable with the notion that two versions of Superman can still wipe the map with most Marvel figs. I just don't like it, but I have to accept it. Moving on.

Spidey- Way back a couple of pages ago, people were complaining about the Spidey being just off from what the ideal spidey should be. Well, look at it this way. Spidey is in every set. They'll get him right sooner or later. Keep posting your ideas on his dial. If you ask me, they're waiting to put out the ideal Spidey in time for the next movie. For me, the ideal Spidey will have two targets, high movement LC (9 or 10) with incap to start, a high defense like an 18 with supersenses, 1 damage with CCE, and a 4-6 range on an REV. Then later on in his dial, they should have a few clicks of superstrength with supersenses. Then move on to toughness and outwit, and up the damage to 2 under outwit clicks. I'm not sure what that would cost in points, but it would be pretty close to the ideal Spidey.

As for the Professor Hulk, I have no idea why he has Battle Fury. Sure, this version gets mad, but rarely mad enough to totally lose control and bellow "Hulk Smash". Seriously, why give him range if you're going to do that? Tthis Hulk should have been the version to buck the trend of the "Hulking up" dial and started with the very best stats up front, with maybe a small spike towards the end after a steady drop.

Patch- too much Wolverine for me. I love the character, but this is stretching things a bit. Two activator clicks on the vet? This is not Logan, whose two opening clicks are pretty good and lead into some awesome flurry/BCF clicks. I do like the perplex though, very handy at the end of his dial.

Venom gets BCF? yeesh, talk about making him dangerous late into his dial. The Exp and Vet will see lots of play.

And finally, the Silver Surfer. I was initially VERY disappointed with the lack of color on his dial. I thought my browser hadn't loaded correctly, so I hit reload, but again, not many colors. Surfer is all about defense, and steady stats. I think he should have 2 clicks of RS, not just one. But, much like Venom gains BCF late in his dial, I think Surfer should gain RCE around mid to late dial. Surfer should get RCE on his 5th and 6th clicks before going down to support (which I agree he should have) I think with that little tweak, many fanboys would be happier with the Surfer right now, since Surfer does such great natural damage up front.

I think they will make Namor a good flying brick to complement the Surfer, Strange, and the Hulk on the Defenders team. I can see a strategy in a big point game with the four classic Defenders where Surfer and Strange hover around at range, while Namor charges in and bashes away, and Hulk hulks up. When Namor takes damage, he must break away while Surfer provides cover fire. Strange gets support first, so he would be Namor's medic. Surfer should be the clean up crew, helping the Hulk out. A Surfer who gets a couple of clicks of RCE for some mid to late game serious damage would have been sweet!!

And yeah, I posted this once before, but Ulik rocks!!

[Manchine]

Well it says he has 3 damage for most of the dial. Which I gave it less then his dial. Also his Outwit is going to last more then 4 kliqs. Since on the 4th turn He's down to his 6th kliq after the damage. Dormammu doesnt need outwit to his 8th or 9th kliq. He wont get down that far. LOL

But we will see later today. We can discuss this then after we see the stats. Once WWT people tell us his stats. That is this weekend right?

[thugit]

Yup. Lucky SOB's.

[daedalus25]

Originally posted by Manchine
This is not being a fanboy. I really sorry you cant see it. One on one Dormammu beats SOD Sup's. It has nothing to do with starting outwit. Since there is no way, playing equal skilled players, SOD Sup's can get the first hit in.

This is the big mistake. Given two highly skilled players, there is an equal chance for either to get the first hit in. Keep SOD Supes soaring, and Dormammu's range is 5. This also happens to be how far Supes can hit from soaring with a Charge. (1 to drop to hovering, move 4 more and the 5th square is adjacent for a close combat attack with an item.)

[Manchine]

Originally posted by daedalus25
This is the big mistake. Given two highly skilled players, there is an equal chance for either to get the first hit in. Keep SOD Supes soaring, and Dormammu's range is 5. This also happens to be how far Supes can hit from soaring with a Charge. (1 to drop to hovering, move 4 more and the 5th square is adjacent for a close combat attack with an item.)

Actually thats wrong since you havent included moving down from soaring. That would put you in 5 Squarse to be able to charge.

Count it out on a Map. If your withing CHarge Range (in Soaring Mode) your within Shooting range of 10 movement/shooting.

[daedalus25]

Actually I'd like to amend that. Supes has the higher chance of getting the first hit if there is blocking terrain on the map.

Still, this game is mostly luck, and to declare one a winner before the dice are even rolled is ludicrous. ;)

[daedalus25]

Actually I'd like to amend that. Supes has the higher chance of getting the first hit if there is blocking terrain on the map.

Still, this game is mostly luck, and to declare one a winner before the dice are even rolled is ludicrous. ;)

[daedalus25]

Originally posted by Manchine
Actually thats wrong since you havent included moving down from soaring. That would put you in 5 Squarse to be able to charge.

Count it out on a Map. If your withing CHarge Range (in Soaring Mode) your within Shooting range of 10 movement/shooting.

Um reread what I wrote. I most definitely did include dropping down to hovering. Both require an exact range of 5 to their opponent.

[thugit]

If Superman is around a corner of blocking terrain, there's no reason Superman can't get the first shot in. If both players are equally skilled, there's no reason Supes can't get the first shot. I guarantee I could beat Dormammu with Supes. I'm not sure why you think that Dormmamu always gets the first punch. If SOD is behind a corner, then HE has to move away, or take the 7 clicks coming to him, because while Supes can charge around a corner, Dormmamu can't shoot around them. An experienced player wouldn't lose SOD to Dormammu without bad rolls.

[Manchine]

Dormammu can use terrain just as much. Moving away and such. Plus there is enough maps that you cant use Blocking Terrain very well.

[thugit]

So in summary, as long as ALL factors favor Dormmamu, he should win everytime. No teams, he picks the map, he hits first.

Once again, your intellect defies me, Manchine.

[Manchine]

So it all comes down to who wins the Map. But it does show that SOD Superman isnt 1 on 1 unstoppable.


Now I have to figure out who would win if Sup's gets the first hit. Since this is a lot closer we have to wait for the stats. LOL

[daedalus25]

It doesn't come down to who wins the map. Even if Dormammu's player picks a map that was 100% clear terrain (which doesn't exist of course), there is still an equal chance of who gets the first hit. Whoever can get their opponent to move within a 5 range first will get that first hit.

If Superman's player wins the map, then Supes is pretty much guaranteed the first hit.

Either way, it comes down to whoever makes the first bad roll. But if I had to put money down on this game, I would definitely pick SOD Supes. ;)

[Manchine]

Originally posted by thugit
So in summary, as long as ALL factors favor Dormmamu, he should win everytime. No teams, he picks the map, he hits first.

Once again, your intellect defies me, Manchine.

Excuse me! I take you cant discuss anything without flaming. I thought you learned by now. Some people just cant change.

Pick the Map, yes. It favors him which is random. Hitting first depends on the Map. No biggy. Doing 300 point teams. Sorry there's no way you can Argue that. To much Randomness in that. Please dont go back to your "I think I am better then everyone" attitude. Which your not.

[Manchine]

Originally posted by daedalus25
It doesn't come down to who wins the map. Even if Dormammu's player picks a map that was 100% clear terrain (which doesn't exist of course), there is still an equal chance of who gets the first hit. Whoever can get their opponent to move within a 5 range first will get that first hit.

If Superman's player wins the map, then Supes is pretty much guaranteed the first hit.

Either way, it comes down to whoever makes the first bad roll. But if I had to put money down on this game, I would definitely pick SOD Supes. ;)

Sorry there is not an equal chance of getting hit first on a Map Dormammu player Picks. Sorry again your putting the better player playing DC.

I do have to agree that Sup's Player can probable get the first hit if they pick the map.

Odds wise its a safer bet to go with Dormammu. Even with Superman getting the First Hit. Since I am Expecting Dormammu to have the same Attack as SOD Sup's.

[thugit]

I hardly think I'm better than everyone. I'm just pointing out that you say Dormammu can't lose to SOD, then you put all sorts of qualifiers in to make sure that you are right.

I didn't mean to offend, and that last comment I made WAS out of line. I apologize. :sleep:

[TyeDyeSamurai]

Thugit is right though, you can't consider Dormammu from his ideal setup.
Also, you can't consider two lone figs against each other. No one would ever move into the other's strike zone first, it would be pointless.

SoD Supes flying, Impervious, high Defense, Charge and huge damage potential give him the edge more often than not.
Dormammu has his own tricks, but he's just a bit out of his league. But only a bit

[Neato-Magneto]

Vet IC Spiderman-110
U IC Spiderman-118
U XP Spiderman-79
Vet CM Spiderman-88
Token: Mary Jane Watson-Parker-5
Total: 400 pts


Sweet!!!!!!! And then all you can stop complaining about a 16 defense. (defend on IC spidey)

I am so going to play this team :)

[Manchine]

Originally posted by thugit
I hardly think I'm better than everyone. I'm just pointing out that you say Dormammu can't lose to SOD, then you put all sorts of qualifiers in to make sure that you are right.

I didn't mean to offend, and that last comment I made WAS out of line. I apologize. :sleep:

As you see I not saying its an Abosolute Win for Dormammu. I also see that SOD Sup's in not the God Character either, now. LOL He can be beat. I think there is finally enough figures starting to come out to not allow any one figure to be overwhelming.

As for the Comment. I have changed and try not to take offense and go off flaming. Its no biggy. No harm, no foul. In fact since you apologized, since you didnt have to, I think your that shows great personality. :laugh: :p ;)

[WarHULK]

Any map where you can get to a spot with 5 space square (5x5) with no blocking terrain highly favor Dormammu. Most oudoor maps have such a spot. Inside SOD Superman has an advantage since there is typically much more blocking terrain.

[WarHULK]

correction, a 6x6 area*

[rotru]

I think that really is the beautiful part of this game. No figures are out of their league, in a good team. I'm not trying to fault you for your discussion, but the design of the game is such that these one-on-one scenarios are as useless as they are in the comics. There are tons of variables, and that's how I like it. Superman may be a huge threat, but if you play well, he can be taken out by figures worth half his cost. Likewise with Batman. The two of them WOULD be a powerful team, but not invincible.

Just as a curiosity, if you were facing SOD Superman and E Batman, and you could only pick Marvel, who would you use, thugit? Also, who would you use if you could pick any?

[Dr. Morbius]

Originally posted by Neato-Magneto
Vet IC Spiderman-110
U IC Spiderman-118
U XP Spiderman-79
Vet CM Spiderman-88
Token: Mary Jane Watson-Parker-5
Total: 400 pts


Sweet!!!!!!! And then all you can stop complaining about a 16 defense. (defend on IC spidey)

I am so going to play this team :)

Dude...you even got 2 more Pts....for Black Spidey (U) is 116 NOT 118!!!

Dr. M :devious:

[thugit]

If I could only pick Marvel.... I would say Nightcrawler (to take out Batman), and Savage Hulk, or a 300 point Sentinel if I can use big figs.

If I could use any figures to beat them, I would use a 300 point Sinestro and LE Superman. Sinestro takes out SOD, LE Superman EASILY beats Batman. Again, if I can't use big figs, I would use LE Superman and Amazo.

[daedalus25]

Originally posted by Manchine
Sorry there is not an equal chance of getting hit first on a Map Dormammu player Picks. Sorry again your putting the better player playing DC.

Please explain to me your math. Apparently there is something you don't understand, so I'll try to explain it more clearly.

SOD Supes is soaring.
Dormammu's range is halved against him.
Therefore Dormammu has an effective range of 5.

SOD Supes is soaring.
SOD can charge 5 spaces. 1 of those is used to drop to hovering.
4 more moves Supes 4 spaces closer. He can now make a close combat attack an additional 1 range further.
Therefore SOD Superman has an effective range of 5.

Now where in this does Dormammu automatically get the better chance to hit? Both require a maximum range of 5. Both have an equal ability to get to that range.

What map do you have envisioned that would prevent Supes from taking advantage of any terrain or positioning that Dormammu could?

[SLAYER X]

I like them all, spidey and venom are my favoites though from this group. Their stats are how I would like to see them. surfer is very good but theydid not do him justice, this is the guy who can take out superman without really trying and in this game superman would kill him before he knew what happened. I do like that he gets support , impervious and the defender TA.

[daedalus25]

Okay there is a map that is possible. An INDOOR map of nothing but clear terrain. Then Dormammu would have the advantage. Unfortunately there doesn't exist an indoor map without blocking terrain yet, so this unique scenario can't yet come to play.

[rotru]

I thought that you might say Hypersonic Speed and big figs!

I didn't always feel this way, but I really do believe that no one strategy is unbeatable. Like Manchine said, with the range of figures available now, there is always a counter team.

Now, I do believe that there are a limited number of top-echelon setups. But I don't play in many tournaments, so I don't have to face these over and over.

[Manchine]

daedalus25, I think your a step behind becuase I have already explained all this.

:laugh: :p ;) :p ;) :laugh:

PS Also there are enough Indoor Maps where there's Clear spots where Dormammu can get a Clear shot at SOD Superman. As I said it all depends on the Map.

[thedon09]

Ah, Silver Surfer is embrassing. I don't care about his high defense, he should have that. But, he got screwed on the attack value. Yay, he has an 11, but so does Mr. Hyde, so that's fair. No super strength, energy explosion, or pulse wave, I'm not saying he deserves all of them, but a case can be made for any of those powers. One click of running shot, that is disgusting. I know people say don't make the characters TOO powerful or it makes the game less interesting, but I feel they should make a fair representation of the character. He's way underpowered, and I don't even know if I want his heroclix now.. I've been waiting since Infinity Challenge for my favorite character to come out, and he's so freaking disappointing

[thedon09]

Ah, Silver Surfer is embrassing. I don't care about his high defense, he should have that. But, he got screwed on the attack value. Yay, he has an 11, but so does Mr. Hyde, so that's fair. No super strength, energy explosion, or pulse wave, I'm not saying he deserves all of them, but a case can be made for any of those powers. One click of running shot, that is disgusting. I know people say don't make the characters TOO powerful or it makes the game less interesting, but I feel they should make a fair representation of the character. He's way underpowered, and I don't even know if I want his heroclix now.. I've been waiting since Infinity Challenge for my favorite character to come out, and he's so freaking disappointing

[thedon09]

Ah, Silver Surfer is embrassing. I don't care about his high defense, he should have that. But, he got screwed on the attack value. Yay, he has an 11, but so does Mr. Hyde, so that's fair. No super strength, energy explosion, or pulse wave, I'm not saying he deserves all of them, but a case can be made for any of those powers. One click of running shot, that is disgusting. I know people say don't make the characters TOO powerful or it makes the game less interesting, but I feel they should make a fair representation of the character. He's way underpowered, and I don't even know if I want his heroclix now.. I've been waiting since Infinity Challenge for my favorite character to come out, and he's so freaking disappointing

[thickvic]

I think they nailed V Patch , V Spidey and V Venom right on the head, Surfer(shoulda been better) and Hulk, eeh, if I get them, I'll play them, but the battle fury on Hulk's biggest clix kinda negates the range, which would have been sweet. Also, isn't this the Hulk that Samson had brainwashed to revert to Banner if he became too angry? Just curious cause if it was it would be kinda cool to see him get ticked off then drop, then have to hulk up again. Just my thoughts.

[Silver Lantern]

Guys on a 1 on 1 game, wouldn't the lower point build win if there are no KOs? So wouldn't SOD Supes HAVE TO ENGAGE, and therefore get smoked? And at that point doesn't the Dormammu player just pick a spot where he can't be charged from around a corner and then that's it?

I mean I don't even like Dormammu, I like Supes better, but I think Dormammu is just designed in a way, that 1 on 1 he can take out SOD. Now lets stop being such fanboys, and let's keep this thrad on topic :)

[blind_justice]

Only doing the vet, you can get a feel from that...

Spd 10 9 8 8 7 7 6 6 5
L/C all the way except the last 2 then flurry

Att 11 10 9 8 8 7 7 6 8
Incap 1st 4 then switch to SS for 3 (after he's out of webs)

Def 18 17 17 16 16 17 15 14 13
SS all the way down (if you MUST do Def, then on 1st 2 clicks)

Dam 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2
CCE on 1st 2 clicks, then perplex for 4, then outwit for 3

2 arrows/4 range/Spiderman team

Is that so hard? What do the rest of you think?

[Silver Lantern]

Guys doesn't dormammu cost less than SOD. And doesn't the player with the lowest point build win if there are no KOs? So wouldn't Supes have to engage if its 1 on 1? If he's to have a chance?

And then wouldn't Dormammu just have to pick a spot from where supes can't charge from around a corned?

I even like SOD better than Dormammu, but I think 1 on 1 Dormammu owns him. Well SOD has a chance, I mean Dormammu can crit miss every time. :) :)

[Silver Lantern]

Sorry for the duplicate kind of post, My 1st post got lost in lingo and then reappeared. Kinda what Nightcrawler does. :)

[Manchine]

Originally posted by blind_justice
Only doing the vet, you can get a feel from that...

Spd 10 9 8 8 7 7 6 6 5
L/C all the way except the last 2 then flurry

Att 11 10 9 8 8 7 7 6 8
Incap 1st 4 then switch to SS for 3 (after he's out of webs)

Def 18 17 17 16 16 17 15 14 13
SS all the way down (if you MUST do Def, then on 1st 2 clicks)

Dam 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2
CCE on 1st 2 clicks, then perplex for 4, then outwit for 3

2 arrows/4 range/Spiderman team

Is that so hard? What do the rest of you think?

To answer the Question.

"NO!"

You asked.

:laugh: :p ;) :laugh: :p ;) :laugh:

[daedalus25]

Originally posted by Manchine
daedalus25, I think your a step behind becuase I have already explained all this.

:laugh: :p ;) :p ;) :laugh:

PS Also there are enough Indoor Maps where there's Clear spots where Dormammu can get a Clear shot at SOD Superman. As I said it all depends on the Map.

Hmm? I must have missed it somewhere... I scrolled back and didn't see which map you picked that would give Dormammu the advantage. And even if Dormammu picked an indoor map with a large clear area, Superman would just force Dormammu to start on a side where it wasn't accessible. ;)


But anyhow it's all moot. I would be more than happy to take on a Dormammu opponent with an SOD Superman, but all it would prove is that it comes down to dice rolls and nothing more.

[DaLuvster89]

Wow. Just... Wow. There's definately no pleasing everyone!

Firstly - IMHO, a combo of Silver Surfer and Dormammu would have a solid shot at taking out SoD and E Batman.
Just getting that out of the way first - have at it, Thugit! ;)

Second - the figs:

Silver Surfer- When I first saw his dail, I thought it was a bit vanilla, too. But lets take his positives into account:
Defenders TA. At least they didn't miss that one. It seems that Surfer is paying a hefty cost for the ability coupled with his high defense, though. 14 move with Running Shot is really nice - it gives him a Unique place in the whole game. His late dail powers are going to be a real pain to counter - his Regen can get him back to Impervious, while his Support can help his teammates significantly.
It cracks me up that people have said that he's too "Thanos-like" like thats' a bad thing. :cheeky:

Patch - Out of the bunch, I think the Rookie may be best. I guess the two starting "push" clix on the E/V could be used to get him around the map, pushing all the way. But it just seems... Inconvenient. Can't imagine ever using him over U Wolvie IC or V Logan.

Hulk - I'm not the biggest Hulk fan - my favorite thus far is probubly Fixit. But there is some definate potential in this fig, due soley to the Wildcard TA. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping that the Battle Fury in the middle of his dail is actually is Perplex. :) (They've made these types of mistakes before...) It is kinda dissapointing that he has 2 damage for so many clix. Nothing a litlle Perplex/Enhance can't fix, though.

Venom - Just seems like a solid fig. I'm not the biggest Venom fan, but this ain't bad. I like how his point costs are really close to the R/E/V Spidey. Finally, some arch enemies that can have a battle that could go either way!

Spiderman - I like this Spidey a lot. His Vet is really nice. It seems that Whizkids won't budge on the dual lightning bolts thing. But I can live with it. His second wind is going to be sweet! I feel that Defend on this fig accurately represents Spidey as he acts in the comics. Runs into battle, mixes it up, then realizes danger to his teammates and reacts with a warning. I like it.

I've got more to say 'bout Spidey, but I'll save it for later. For the most part, these figs look good.

[bamf66]

When did this become another vs. thread? We still don't know what a majority of Dormammu's stats are. I implore all those fortunate souls who have received Critical Mass to indulge us lowly lepers with some stats. We're hungry and Wednesday seems so far away:)

[Manchine]

Other then the Defense numbers we have a good idea what he will have.

[blind_justice]

To answer the Question. NO!

LOL, That's rich.

You know, it's not that I think Spidey is totally bad, in fact, this may be the best yet, I'm just thinking he could be "better". But heck, in my eyes, what is "better" might not be in someone elses. This one definatley does NOT suck, so don't misinturpet my post as a "he's broken" complaint.

I think expectations play a big part in this as well. I had in my head (like probably most of us) a preconcieved notion of what I thought he would look like. He didn't turn out that way, but it's not bad...just different.

As far as the Surfer, I'm happy, sure he's got a rather vanilla looking dial, but he has high stats, and there is one thing that you cannot outwit, and that is high stats.

[kontrol]

We should wait til we get the stats for him before we get too deep into the Dormammu vs. SOD Superman. Though I completely agree with Machine, One on one, SOD isn't getting first shot unless Dormammu's player is asleep at the wheel. Conversely, SOD can dance around all day, outdoors in soaring mode to try and get the angle. But the fact of the matter is, Dormammu would have to back himself into a corner to get popped first. I can't think of a single building or position(outdoors, mind you) that would allow Superman to advance to the "arround the corner" spot and would not allow Dormammu to move to a different more advantageous spot for himself. One either a) eliminating the corner angle all together or b) moving out of charge range. Yes, if played right SOD won't get hit either, but SOD isn't going to own Dormammu by any stretch of the imagination. Indoors, tilt's slightly higher to SOD, but indoors, you can't soar, and Dormammu can start blowing down terrain before Superman gets to a good "hide behind wall to charge" spot.

On facing SOD Superman(226) w/ an E Batman(92) team.(318 pt)
That is indeed a beast to deal with. I think though if we go with equivalent costs then it would be Dormammu (206), V Pyro(35), E Logan(49), R Mandroid Armor(28)
Pyro is the blocking of line of sight for Outwit with barrier, Mandroid to TK Logan up to Batman, to hopefully knock him out of Outwit.


Anyway, on what this thread is more about.

Spider-Man is a great addition to HeroClix, he requires a little more thought than the average, though. Good attack out front, decent not mindblowing defense to start. While incapacitate is basically defined by his webshooters, I think the exorbitant cost of it starts to take away from his playability, especially if it's front loaded. It's that spike in defense (with Defend no less) That cause him to shine. You go out a pick a fight with the non invulnerable characters out there then you have a chance at avoiding the retaliation, or you get sent down to your better defense mode. It's a good thing, IMO. This version captures a lot of the elements that makes him Spider-Man, without costing a lot of points.

Everybody's complaining about the Smart Hulk, I kind of like him. True Battle Fury takes away from his range, but honestly if your plan was to use a Hulk solely as a gun and not mix it up at all, you're thinking about the wrong character. I think, playwise, the Battle Fury was to get you to play the character like the Smart Hulk. Yeah, he'd start gunning you down, but eventually he always brought the fight up to your face. This was Wizkids way of enforcing that style on the Hulk.

Patch, Logan was never really that bad arse as his Patch persona, so it makes sense that he's not the same as his more well known persona.

Surfer. True more RS would have been grand but I'll still take him. And pair him with V Spiderman from this set. In higher point games, of course. The regen is a nice touch I think.

Venom, a very good representation. Somebody that could honestly go toe to toe with Spiderman without being a clone.

[AlgertMan]

you people need to quit on SOD vs. Dor. it's just been "am so" "am not" the whole time, and it quite pathetic

[DreadDormammu]

Originally posted by daedalus25
SOD Supes is soaring.
Dormammu's range is halved against him.
Therefore Dormammu has an effective range of 5.Correct.

SOD Supes is soaring.
SOD can charge 5 spaces. 1 of those is used to drop to hovering.
4 more moves Supes 4 spaces closer. He can now make a close combat attack an additional 1 range further.
Therefore SOD Superman has an effective range of 5.So his effective range is within Dormammu's. Which means Dormammu can attack him before he charges.

Manchine is not arguing Dormammu can hit Superman from beyond his soaring charge range. He is pointing out that if Superman gets into charge range, he is within range of Dormammu.

Both can attack 5 squares away if SOD Superman is soaring.

[DreadDormammu]

Originally posted by AcidBath
I never bought any Indy, so when I play I just use the old rules. Is there a new rule allowing based figures to make ranged attacks?A flier can make a ranged attack against any adjacent foe. A grounded figure can make ranged attacks against adjacent fliers if there are no enemy grounded units also adjacent.

[Inbetweener]

Silver Surfer seems to be a mixed bag so far...I really think he could turn out to be one of the best characters to build a team around of any. He is self-serving too...he would do well in pretty much any situation other than a team stacked with outwit (which only a fool wouldn't target outwitters first), not to mention it takes some luck to hit an 18. I've had sucess with Thanos and I'm hearing a lot of comparisons to him here...Surfer is a far better figure...his regenration will put him on his nastiest clix with Imperious and a four damage and that will mostly be late in a game when a team that has been wittled down can't handle that kind of offense and defense. He's my favorite comic character and I think he's underpowered but we still got a figure that is very playable on every click. Hes starts off with the best range in the game and an defender team freindly 18 defense and then turns into a all out offensive machine who's difficult to hurt and then he gets the chance to get all that back again with regeneration...I already have some great teams planned for this figure and he may even be useful in a 300 point game.

[bullseye100]

does anyone know the stats for ulik???

[Manchine]

Psssttt Check units section out for Ulik.

[bullseye100]

none of these figures beat Vet. Gambit... HooYa!!!!

[pve8400]

I think the new hulk is pretty dissapointing... and Silver surfer should definitely have a few more powers cause what he has definitely does not represent the power cosmic.

[pve8400]

I think the new hulk is pretty dissapointing... and Silver surfer should definitely have a few more powers cause what he has definitely does not represent the power cosmic.

[DTM]

OK, it seems this thread is a better place for my previous posting. Enjoy. :)

Copy and Paste and......

Not going to say.....anything.....must hold tongue.......not comic book game.....errrrrr...AHHHHH!!

OK, I can hold my tongue no longer. Earth bound Surfer???That sounds like people trying to justify Supermans MAX 3 Damage by saying he pulls his punches.

Sheesh, the Surfer was made good for gameplaying Im sure, but come on, Im NOT a Surfer fanboy but the guy deserves BETTER than this.

No EE, No PW, No RCE, No HSS, No Charge, and only Running Shot for ONE CLICK. Please, lets not just sit here and say hes a good representation, he stinks.

AGAIN, sure gameplay wise Im sure you can think of lots of great things for him, but for a fan of comics it looks as if WK toned down the Surfer ON PURPOSE, and even made that one of their first CM annoucements "there will be other characters more powerful than the Silver Surfer". Sure they will, you made a 190 to 200 point character 20 to 30 points and took away nearly all of his powers.

YES, hell be a good playing piece, but Geeze, thats NOT the Silver Surfer. I mean come on, weve been waiting for him for how long now, we couldnt have gotten one alittle closer to who he is? In a time where were getting the powerful guys made much better than in IC or HT, why water down Marvel most powerful hero???

Again, IM NOT A SURFER FANBOY, Id be fine with him without HSS, or even without RCE, but no EE, or PW and RS for just his first click. Thats just toning him down on purpose, to fit him in a set point range, and thats just wrong.

and NO, you cant have mine if I get one....I didnt say I didnt WANT one (I am a collector you know) I just said Im disappointed with how he was made.

And for the record, giving him more powers and upping his cost WOULD NOT make him not worth playing. He would be just as playable as other high point characters as Thor, Dr. Doom, Amazo and so on. This is NOT a contest of playability vs representation, this is me saying why cant we have a better mixture of BOTH, and sorry but this just isnt it.

[DreadDormammu]

Originally posted by DTM
No EE, No PW, No RCE, No HSS, No Charge, and only Running Shot for ONE CLICK. Please, lets not just sit here and say hes a good representation, he stinks.Actually, there is no way to truly represent the Power Cosmic. But based on the comics, Silver Surfer doesn't have EE, PW or RCE. He doesn't make huge explosions or waves of power. He blasts a foe with a concentrated beam. And as to RCE? He hits as hard in HTH as he does at range, so that makes no sense.

People have to stop expecting "color" on a dial for its own sake. Like everyone I feel 1 click of Running Shot is too few. Other than that, he is good. HSS definitely wouldn't fit. He just doesn't move that way in the comics. High move yes, HSS power no.

[DTM]

He doesnt use Energy Explosion? He blasts Cosmic Power ALL the time, when they hit things, they EXPLODE, ALL the time.

He can also radiate Cosmic Power, which would easily work as Pulse Wave, easily.

OK, RCE I can understand, but for Gods Sake take away the ending 1 Damage on his dial.

True, its hard to pick powers for a character that can do anything, but a single Running Shot, a few last clicks of Support and Body Armor is the best they could do???

Hes only at 173 points, why make him so low when they can make him at the 190 to 200 point mark and better show the powers he has?? They did it for so many other heavy hitters, why not Surfer? Are they trying to prove a point or something?

People have been waiting for him for how long, hes one of Marvels most powrful characters, and he gets made at 173 points?? Sounds like theyre following the Doomsday point scale for him, which is definately disappointing to this HC collector.

Again, Im sure hell be great to play, as Darkseid is, but the Darkseid HC we have AINT Darkseid, just as this just isnt the Silver Surfer.

And dont get me started on the HULK. Geeze, a single high click of 4 Damage for one of his strongest forms......yeah, ok.

[DTM]

He doesnt use Energy Explosion? He blasts Cosmic Power ALL the time, when they hit things, they EXPLODE, ALL the time.

He can also radiate Cosmic Power, which would easily work as Pulse Wave, easily.

And HSS, thats for blasting and moving away.....and Surfer doesnt DO that? He doesnt blast opponents as he moves on to avoid their attacks? What he just flies in, say HI IM HERE and blasts away? Of course not.

OK, RCE I can understand, but for Gods Sake take away the ending 1 Damage on his dial.

True, its hard to pick powers for a character that can do anything, but a single Running Shot, a few last clicks of Support and Body Armor is the best they could do???

Hes only at 173 points, why make him so low when they can make him at the 190 to 200 point mark and better show the powers he has?? They did it for so many other heavy hitters, why not Surfer? Are they trying to prove a point or something?

People have been waiting for him for how long, hes one of Marvels most powrful characters, and he gets made at 173 points?? Sounds like theyre following the Doomsday point scale for him, which is definately disappointing to this HC collector.

Again, Im sure hell be great to play, as Darkseid is, but the Darkseid HC we have AINT Darkseid, just as this just isnt the Silver Surfer.

And dont get me started on the HULK. Geeze, a single high click of 4 Damage for one of his strongest forms......yeah, ok

[DTM]

Sorry, I checked before and it hadnt posted my first post, so I did a second one, cept it did BOTH. Sorry all.....though there is an HSS section I added to the second one, so I guess theyre not exactly the same. :)

[Basil Elks]

cool

[Gumpold]

I'm too lazy to read through the whole thread, so this might be answered somewhere already but, Are there any Archenemies in this set? If so, who are they?

[Gumpold]

I'm too lazy to read through the whole thread, so there might already be an answer posted for this but, are there any archenemies in this set? If so, who are they?

[Gumpold]

I'm too lazy to read through the whole thread, so there might already be an answer posted for this but, are there any archenemies in this set? If so, who are they?