School me in Planetary. (spoilers)

[4AD_Punk]

Okay, I'm not trying to be antagonistic. I would like to have an intelligent discourse with opinions that might help me realize aspects of Planetary that I didn't recognize.

I'm confused about why Planetary is regarded as a great title. Great in the sense that numerous people approach me with, "You have to read Planetary! It's really good."

I read the first two trades and I'm not that impressed considering the high and enthusiastic recommendations I have received from knowledgeable and well-read comic book nerds; in other words, people who are supposed to have excellent taste and whose opinion I should trust. Planetary is a highly regarded and popular title right?

If you like Planetary, why?

I didn't hate it, but I guess I expected more considering the hype. I liked Elijah Snow, until it's revealed he is the Fourth Man. He was a more attractive character with the amnesia and mysterious past; I don't like him being the head honcho of Planetary. Liked Ambrose Chase, of course. Not too wild about Drummer or Jakita. Liked the spin about the Four terminating the Superman, Green Lantern, and Wonder Woman counterparts. Liked the Jack Carter character, who was obviously a spin on John Constantine. Liked how each issue appears to be self-contained, but they are obviously apart of a larger whole. Intrigued and wanted to see more of the "golden age" guys like Doctor Brass and Stark.

Honest question: Why do people think Planetary is so great?

And don't tell me I should like Planetary because Alan Moore does.:)

[bakija]

>>Honest question: Why do people think Planetary is so great?>>

-The art is fantastic.

-The writing is fantastic.

-The individual stories are fantastic (see: City Zero, Magic and Loss, Issue 1, whatever).

-The overall story arc ties everythting together quite nicely.

What is not to like?

-Peter

[lukebuchanan]

Originally posted by bakija
>>Honest question: Why do people think Planetary is so great?>>

-The art is fantastic.

-The writing is fantastic.

-The individual stories are fantastic (see: City Zero, Magic and Loss, Issue 1, whatever).

-The overall story arc ties everythting together quite nicely.

What is not to like?

-Peter

Agreed. You have to look at the stories individually and what the bring to the greater whole. On another note you have to be a comic book fan of all types to get the subtle tones of it, from recognizing the symbolism to interpretations.

EX: issue 7, the one that takes place in London lampoons the vertigo/mature titles mass produced in the eighties and tries to show us the evolution of not only Ellis' writing but the characters. At the end you see the agent (whose name escapes me) holding a highly visible green pack of smokes, red lighter and has black body tatoos. This is now supposed to represent Spider Jerusalem of his other work Transmetropolitan. It's thier take on the industry that compels you to read more, and even understand/reminisce/laugh at those times. You have to look at the underlying meaning behind each story.

And Cassady's art is amazing.

Luke B. pissed it took TWO YEARS to kick start this thing again. And if you weren't disturbed by the "Fourth Man" TPB something's wrong

[4AD_Punk]

Originally posted by bakija
>>Honest question: Why do people think Planetary is so great?>>

-The art is fantastic.

-The writing is fantastic.

-The individual stories are fantastic (see: City Zero, Magic and Loss, Issue 1, whatever).

-The overall story arc ties everythting together quite nicely.

What is not to like?

-Peter

Yes, Planetary does have exceptional art and writing. However, so do a lot of titles.

What distinguishes Planetary? I'm confused how friends say Planetary is essential reading, when I think otherwise.

Maybe I'm missing something? Is Planetary supposed to be a metaphor or allegory about the stupidity and greed of record companies filing lawsuits and prosecuting kids who download music? Is The Four supposed to be symbolic of the Bush Administration?

Seriously, I'm just confused about the general tag of essential reading that I've often received and read about in reviews.

[4AD_Punk]

Originally posted by lukebuchanan
Luke B. pissed it took TWO YEARS to kick start this thing again. And if you weren't disturbed by the "Fourth Man" TPB something's wrong

What was disturbing about the collected issues in the "Fourth Man"?

The illegal biological testing on American "dissidents" by the United States government? Yes, it's scary, but not an absolutely original idea that was shocking to me.

[lukebuchanan]

How about william leather roasting the baby superman? Shooting GL in the face or any other events of tragic death. That's disturbing to me, not "sweet comic-book action".

[Briel]

THe whole point of the series is how it plays with conventions. It pays tribute to all the genres and history of comics that fed and make our comics world what it is today. It also looks at each genre in terms of what it was meant as back then, and how we apply our psychological and sociological views after the fact, to what was often meant as light entertainment.

It's about The Cold War. It's about racism. It's about history as written as opposed to what may have really happened (not just in comcs, but as a metaphor for history rewritten by the victors in real life).

Warren hopes after you read ths you will want to know more about the heroes payed tribute to. The Shadow, Doc Savage, Tarzan, etc...

What happened to the "DC" heroes in Planetary wasn't just ultra violence. The whole point ws that ultra violence seems to have replaced and or killed our heroic ideals and icons of the past. That is a sad thing.

The FF as villains while intriguing in itself, is also a commentary on how Marel overtook DC for some time, but now a balance has returned.

In short. PLANETARY is about history. Ours, comics, and literature.

It is also about the fact that while there is evil in the world, there is still magic and wonder out there.

The three main characters themselves are not even really the point. They are actually tour guides. Hence we really for the most part only see them from an outsider's point of view. If we were in their heads, we'd be focusing on them rather than what each tale is about.

Hope this helps.

[Briel]

I think the fact that many aren't shocked by what they see goes a long way to what Ellis is trying to say. You aren't shocked and disturbed, but you (all of us) should be.We've all become so desensitzed to what is going on around us.

Evils happened, and continue to happen, but many feel it's OK as long as it's not in their own backyard (The French). Then you have a US goverment that went insane after Pearl Harbor and tried to make the world safe through control. Unfortunately neither way really works, and a happy medium needs to be achieved.

Yes prosecuting kids for downloading is wrong. They should be prosecuting the ones putting it out there to be downloaded. But the bigger picture is being missed.

Let us say you are a writer or musician. This is your chosen proffesion. How you want to make money while sharing your vision. Forget the middle man reording and publishing companies for a moment. They're not who are really getting hurt in the long run.

Someone just broke into your house, and photocopied, and or recorede all your creations, and just put them out on the internet for all to enjoy. Well that's great on one level. Everyone read your book or heard your album.

But wait! Since everyone has it, no one will need to buy it. That means no money for you. The rent doesn't get paid, and your kids won't go to college.

It isn't a question of still enough people buy, that no one really gets hurt. Legall it can't be. It has to be all or nothing for everyone's protection. Does Britney Spears or some other big name feel it? Maybe not so much. Do artists trying to come up from the garage on Indy labels get undermined and crushed with no cash flow? Yes they do.

Theft is theft, and at the end of the day it hurts the economy, and everyone in it.

It's not giving the finger to the big guy in an anarchc gesture. The big guy is always going to find a way to be the big guy. The burden is always ging to be shifted to the low man on the totem pole. Unfortunately, that's the creator.

Because while theirs is the product, Mr Big knows their are thousands behind this little guy just as hungry willing to play ball when the first guy goes bankrupt and disappears.

So please (and I'm a poor guy too), if you like an album or book, BUY it! Otherwise that writer or musician won't be able to make another one for you.

[Briel]

I say "you" meaning all of us by the way. Not as a specific person.

I don't want to come off the wrong way.

As I hope to be a writer or artist one day (if I ever shift my lazy behind), the topic of intellectual properties is a pet peeve of mine.

[grendelboy]

I think the keys to Planetary are revisionism and history.

Warren has taken the Golden and Silver icons and spun them. In addition he has expounded on little details in their histories and fleshed them out a bit. For a longtime comic reader this is really enjoyable.

Seeing Dracula's frozen crotch shattered in Sherlock Holmes' study? Priceless. Suggesting that all the golden age characters actually fought a battle against invading Silver age heroes? Also a bit of brilliance.

4AD, I am not one to say "if you don't like this, you don't get it and you're a moron". I leave that to the Gaiman fans. What I am saying is I think this book is enjoyed by many veteran comic fans on another level.

[bakija]

>>What distinguishes Planetary? I'm confused how friends say Planetary is essential reading, when I think otherwise.>>

While Luke and Briel and Grendelboy have said a lot to support the point, I'll keep talking anyway from probably a different viewpoint.

I'm not a huge comic fanboy or anything. I read comics when I was in high school (mid 80's--Bill Stenkewitzc New Mutants, the Brood era X-Men, and neo-JLA kinda stuff), and then kinda fell out of the scene. Recently, I started getting back into comics some, and mostly read the post-modern, self referential books, as I like that kinda stuff. Planetary, along with fantastic art and excellent writing, has a brilliant, post modern, self referece that appeals to my sort of world view. It kinds takes "comic history" and places it in a sort of grim world that is kind of the one that I kinda think is more belivable than most comics--that Superman comes to earth and is vaporized by the government; that the Fantastic 4 use their powers for evil, not good; that Godzilla is actually out there, but, ya know, dead. It is bleak, creepy, and fun.

>>Maybe I'm missing something? Is Planetary supposed to be a metaphor or allegory about the stupidity and greed of record companies filing lawsuits and prosecuting kids who download music? Is The Four supposed to be symbolic of the Bush Administration?>>

I don't think it is a matter of such heavy handed metaphor. It is just a combination of good writing and clever self reference.

>>Seriously, I'm just confused about the general tag of essential reading that I've often received and read about in reviews.>>

I don't know what to tell you--I read the Ellis run of Authority, which was pretty good, but everything he had going on there, he does much better in Planetary, especially as the individual characters aren't really the point of Planetary. I mean, I like Elijah and Jakita and all, but they are there mostly as observers and a thread to tie the stories together.

The stuff I actually read these days, of which Planetary is one of are:

-X-Statix: I really liked the fist 7 or 8 issues of the series (when it was still X-Force). It has kinda lost steam for, well, the last, like, 20 issues, but I keep reading it out of stuborness.

-Ultimates (the Avengers one): The art is, ya know, brilliant, and has a similar post-modern, self referential element to Authority and Planetary, but isn't actually as clever. But I was always a big Avengers fan, so what are you gonna do?

-Hellboy: Not really post-modern like the previous two titles, but freaking awsome none the less. The post Hellboy productions (Weird Tales and BPRD) are very scattershot, both story and art wise, but stubbornly I hang on.

That is pretty much it. And Planetary is the best of the bunch, as an overall combo of writing and art (now that Mignola hasn't done a Hellboy for 2 years...).

-Peter

[4AD_Punk]

Originally posted by Briel
THe whole point of the series is how it plays with conventions. It pays tribute to all the genres and history of comics that fed and make our comics world what it is today. It also looks at each genre in terms of what it was meant as back then, and how we apply our psychological and sociological views after the fact, to what was often meant as light entertainment.

It's about The Cold War. It's about racism. It's about history as written as opposed to what may have really happened (not just in comcs, but as a metaphor for history rewritten by the victors in real life).

Warren hopes after you read ths you will want to know more about the heroes payed tribute to. The Shadow, Doc Savage, Tarzan, etc...

What happened to the "DC" heroes in Planetary wasn't just ultra violence. The whole point ws that ultra violence seems to have replaced and or killed our heroic ideals and icons of the past. That is a sad thing.

The FF as villains while intriguing in itself, is also a commentary on how Marel overtook DC for some time, but now a balance has returned.

In short. PLANETARY is about history. Ours, comics, and literature.

It is also about the fact that while there is evil in the world, there is still magic and wonder out there.

The three main characters themselves are not even really the point. They are actually tour guides. Hence we really for the most part only see them from an outsider's point of view. If we were in their heads, we'd be focusing on them rather than what each tale is about.

Hope this helps.

Thank you Briel for helping me digest aspects and dimensions of Planetary that I did not initially recognize. This was exactly what I was looking for: knowledge to have in my conscience while I re-read the books. Thanks.

[Briel]

Your welcome.