Marvel/DC Battles: TEAM Tournament Of Champions: Round 1, Match 4

[DTM]

Evil Mutants VS. Evil Mutant Killers, which resulted in one very cool and VICIOUS battle, but in the end Emmas mind and Shaws muscle proved too much for the Marauders, so the Hellfire Club advances to Round 2.

For our next battle, we have our First Split Universe one, good vs good, in a Battle of #1s. So without further hesitation, I give you:


X-MEN #1 VS. LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES #1


X-Men #1 – Banshee, Colossus, Cyclops, Nightcrawler, Storm, Wolverine

Legion of Super-Heroes #1 – Cosmic Boy, Saturn Girl, Garth Ranzz (current form), Brainiac 5.1, Chameleon, Ultra Boy, Apparition


As always, same rules apply, no time to prepare, POOFed from where ever they were, with only what they routinely carry on them, to fight in a Large area til one stands and one falls. YOU decide Who.

Randomly Chosen Area:


Mountain Forest - Large rocks/boulders, perhaps a mountain river/stream, plenty of trees, etc.


Thanks all, and enjoy.

And REMEMBER, if youre not sure who someone is here, ASK. Theres PLENTY of people here who can tell you most anything youd like to know. Thanks again.


TEAM TOURNAMENT OF CHAMPIONS


ROUND 1

Jusitce League #1 VS. Justice League #3: Justice League #3
(Steel, Metamorpho, Firestorm, Hawkgirl, Black Canary, Rocket Red)

Titans VS. JSA: JSA
(Flash I, Power Girl, Hawkman, Mr. Terrific, Starman (Jack), Atom Smasher)

Marauders VS. Hellfire Club: Hellfire Club
(Sebastian Shaw, Emma Frost, Harry Leland, Donald Pierce, Trevor Fitzroy, Shinobi Shaw, Frederick Von Roehm)

X-Men #1 VS. Legion Of Super-Heroes #1: ??????

[Mastermind]

Can somebody post what the folks in the Legion do?

Chet

[oogie56]

This one could get evil. Lets see-this one I think goes to the X Men. After poofing in the Legion may be disoriented. Garth goes down to Storm, Saturn Girl get taken out by Crawler, Banshee and Cosmic are about even. Cyke could nail most of the LOSH before they really get going, and there is no way Chameleon could hide from Wolvie. The other scary option is if Crawler ports Cyke into the middle of everything, and then Colossus goes fastball special with Wolvie. That leaves Storm and Banshee to blast away. The X Men are just too much for the LOSH.

Shameless plug-I am still looking for responses about the Independent version of DTMs battles. Please check Another Realm for the thread.

[DTM]

From the LOSH nominator himself:

"Ultra-Boy's powers are almost Superman-level _but_ (and this is a biggy) he can only access one at a time (well, and he has an LSH flight ring like the whole team does). Cos is a magnetics master akin to Magneto (though he seems able to affect non-ferrous objects easily enough) but he doesn't directly affect the raw EM spectrum like Mr. Lehnsherr (he's also a great leader but I don't think that counts towards power levels ). Saturn Girl is a powerful telepath but physically fairly weak (though pretty top-notch in HtH). Brainiac 5.1 is a mega-genius that would make Reed envious but his only real physical power are his force-fields. Chameleon is a master shape-changer."

[Iceman425]

I need some help with the Legionarres as well, thanks.

[DTM]

Check Post 4 above. Its pretty basic, but youll get an overall idea what the LOSH can do.

[thugit]

I'll vote for the Legion, even though they'll be smoked.

Don't be fooled by the clix... The LOSH are pretty tough.

[Prof. Aragorn]

From what I can tell from that one Superman episode and the heroclix themselves, the legionarres can be fairly difficult, but The X-men work better as a team and I can see them do more damage. So I vote X-men.

[Mattman]

X-Men take it. You can count on it.

[BigSoph]

Originally posted by oogie56
After poofing in the Legion may be disoriented.

Well so could the bloody X-Men

Seeing as the LSH is from the future and have used teleporters, I am willing to bet that they would be less disoriented than the X-Men

X-Men #1 – Banshee, Colossus, Cyclops, Nightcrawler, Storm, Wolverine

Legion of Super-Heroes #1 – Cosmic Boy, Saturn Girl, Garth Ranzz (current form), Brainiac 5.1, Chameleon, Ultra Boy, Apparition

Brainy force fields the LSH (his shield can easily withstand Superman's attack). Saturn Girl mind controls Colossus. Colossus kicks the living #### out of Cyke (who was not expecting that!). She then controls Banshee, who uses a spread attack, incapacitating the super-hearing Wolverine as well as making storm fall out of the sky. Ultra Boy then switches to Super Speed and telepathically informs Saturn Girl he wants out, who opens the field to the rear. Zipping out at dozens of tiems the speed of sound, he races towards Cyke then switches to Invulnerability. The Multi-Mach attack KO's the Russian. SG mind controls Nightcrawler, who is now being forced to continuously teleport, exhausting him. SG opens the field just enough to let one of Livewire's bolts out, incapacitating Nightcrawler
Chameleon, now informed of what Scott's weakness is, shapeshifts into Jean Grey and Cyke, stunned, does not even notice when Liveweire fries him

X-Men: Nada
LSH: 1

Legion all the way

(I know the X-Fans would vote for the X-Men if the opposing team was Yahweh, Allah, St. Michael and the Incarnate Vishnu so this is largely symbolic)

[Rando]

I want to get info on Apparition before I vote but it should be noted that a serious advantage for the Lagion is their flight rings, since the entire Legion can fly Wolverine and Colossus are almost useless, and loosing the X-men's big physical combatant is a serious disadvantage especially with Ultra boy fully operational. Braniac's Forcefields can cover the whole legion pretty easily and The Legion is probably more used to teleportaion than the X-men (they have teleporters too, as they are a means of travel in the 30th century) so I see no reason to presume disorientation.

[DTM]

Originally posted by Rando
......but it should be noted that a serious advantage for the Lagion is their flight rings, since the entire Legion can fly Wolverine and Colossus are almost useless, and loosing the X-men's big physical combatant is a serious disadvantage.....


I got two words for ya Rando, Fastball Special. :):laugh:

[Ignatz_Mouse]

Not enough offensive power on the LSH team. The have loads of defense, though.

I don't see it being close, but I think the X-Men win it.

Too bad, I really like the legion.

And oogie, for god's sake, why would the legion be disoriented and the X-Men *not*?

[Silver Ghost]

Between Cosmic Boy, Saturn Girl, and Ultra Boy, I think the X-men drop after a hard-fought battle. Colossus and Wolverine in particular are in bad positions because of Cosmic Boy who can easily incapacitate both of them right at the start!

LSH for the win!

[New Warrior]

Xmen win, Dude puts up a force field, Nightcrawler bamfs inside it and takes him out. Once the shield is gone Lightning, optic blasts, and a fast ball special consisting of Wolverine takes down the others.

[DTM]

On the issue of Brainiacs Force Field protecting the entire LOSH, which Im assuming theyd all need to be somewhat close together, couldnt Nightcrawler just teleport inside and KO Brainiac with a single shot? I dont believe Brainiac is a very physical character at all, same with Saturn Girl.

[oogie56]

OK, they probably are both a little confused. But how many times over the years have the X Men either been *poofed* somewhere or had someone just drop in on them. It seems like it happens often. I just thought they would be more used to looking up and seeing a weird group of people standing there, and would react faster.

[supermangl1]

If the LOSH can work together they will win, (the team with the telepath always has the advantage). The Terrian helps big time for the LOSH. IF it were a open terrain the X-men espcally Cyke could have ended this quick. But the terrain helps buy some time which the LOSH who do work very well together could figure up a strategy. But the X-men are powerful too.....
I say LOSH due to the Saturn Girl, and all of the LOSH can fly! If Cosmic Boy has magnetic powers, Colossus is in big trouble. Wolvie may be a problem, this is his home, mountains and all, but a telepath should end him. It;s not the ultimate version show a telepath can give Wolvie big problems, like in New X-men. Brainaic force fields are a plus too.
my vote = LOSH

It would be a good fight, long and difficult. Many losses on both sides.

[Ignatz_Mouse]

Flying is part of the defense I note.

Here's the problem-- Cyclops. He can target a lot of the Legion and half of them have no defense. Those that do (Brainy, Apparition, Ultra Boy) aren't so hot on offense-- except Ultra Boy. He'll be the last to fall when the X-Men gang up on him.

Interestingly, I don't see Wolverine being that effective in this battle.

It doesn't help any that the X-Men are particularly skilled in fighting:
1) telepaths
2) masters of magnetism
3) phasers

[pangea]

the legion takes it fairly easily

[supermangl1]

Forgot about Cosmic Boy making Wolvie mostly useless as well as Colossus. Saturn Girl is a world class telepath. One of DC's best. (There really is not an abundance, like in Marvel) She may be fragile but so Pro. X, so I don't see that being too big a deal.

[Mastermind]

Gotta go with the X-men on this one.

[bluebeetle]

x-men

[kamui]

My vote: X-Men #1

I don't think Saturn Girl's mind control is going to do much. They were all taught and educated by a telepath, one of the greatest in the world. And have fought along side and against many. If this was a newer group of X-Men, maybe they'd fall to the mind control, but we're talking about some old-school X-Men, not the classic, but still old-school. I think they're massive amounts of team work training will put them ahead in this match.

[DTM]

Also, if Cosmic Boy is going to control Colossus, that means his level of magnetism has to be stronger, at least, than Colossus' brute strength. Is this so?

And Cylcops, Wolverine and Storm ALL have Great willpowers and mental blocks, taught by Professor X, so it WONT be easy for Saturn Girl to control either of them.

[Rando]

So long as Braniac is up and functioning than the entrie Legion has all teh defense they need, in the "Great Darknees Saga" he blanketed an island that was the capital of a planet in his force field, this force field stood up to several blows from evil duplicates of Kalibak, Orion, Superman, and a Guardian of the Universe all at the same time. To the X-men's credit I find it unreasonable to presume that Saturn Girl is able to mind control any of them, she is a very weak telepath and all the x-men are very experienced dealign with telepaths and they haev mental defenses built into them by Professor X, I give her the ability to read the x-teams minds pretty easily since that is passive and not easy to notice (and I see it occur often) but i find straight up mind contro, to be a dubious prospect. This does give the Legion a strong advantage though in that it effectively neutralizes Nightcrawler, Saturn Girl can determine where he is going and transmit that information to Ultra Boy who will put Nightcrawler away instantly, which keeps Saturn Girl, and more importantly Braniac, in the game. The fastball special is totally useless against a team wrapped in a forcefield, and especially a team wrapped in a forcefield that has a guy with magnetic powers that can use them through the forcefield. I'm going to wait for apparition, but I am leaning towards the Legion, their defense and telepathy are very serious strengths.

[supermangl1]

Oh yes the telepath blocking training, it's rather a subjective idea is it not? I remember in New X-Men, a young telepath made Wolvie think he was in a place of unending stairs. The traininf for all those years didn't help to much there did it.
As for the magnetism, I say Colossus if he could move would be at a snail pace. WOlvie should not be able to move.

[Ignatz_Mouse]

I have no doubt that Cosmic Boy could incapactitae both Wolverine and Colossus. The fact that they're grounded withoutt range already takes them off my radar as major threats.

But, the rest of the team is going to have to deal with two powerful ranged opponents in Cyclops and Storm, and one nasty area-effect one in Banshee. Nightcrawler is the wildcard for dealing with Brainy.

If the LSH stays in the forcefield, even with Ultra Boy on Defense holding the belt-- how are they going to hurt the X-Men?

Oh, and what does "Garth Ranzz in current form" mean exactly? Is he more than a lightning-caster?

[Nighthawk]

I vote X-Men, here is why. People seem to be giving Brainiac big props for his force field, which they should. I have never seen B5 have problems talking to other people through the force field, so obviously sound travels through it. I believe Banshee is the master of sound. the first time he met the original X-Men, Banshee screamed and they all fell unconscious.

Bigsoph, while I appreciate your scenario, it seems to have the X-men lining up to get KO'd by the LOSH.

From years of working with Prof X and Marvel Girl, you don't think Cyclops would quickly recognize Saturn Girl's mental powers and have someone take her out?

It is not a walkover, but the X-Men take it.

[Rando]

To the best of my knowledge Cosmic boy can effect things through the forcefield (although I'm not certain), but regardless, Brainiac can shape the forcefiled (which is invisible, it is Booster's forcefiled, only Brainiac can get a lot more out of it and is better at using it) to allow the Legions attaks to exit, this can be coordinated via Saturn Girl's telepathy. Furthermore Cosmic boy can certainly totally immobilize Colossus and Wolverine at the same time, he picks them a foot off the ground and their strength is useless (in fact Cosmic Boy can use them as weapons, and he can blindside people with them, while Storm is dodging an electrical bolt form her front, a hurled Colossus could be coming up behind her, or vice versa). The fact that the x-men have strong offense with no real defense, while the Legion have strong offense with strong defense as well is pretty telling, add to that that Ultra Boy can leave the forcefield and operate alone, since his defense is every bit as strong, and you have a real problem.

[supermangl1]

I think the LOSH could hurt Cyke and the rest of the non-enhanced-defensivly-mutants. Chamelon becomes a poisonous snake and bites Cyke he's in trouble just like anyone else. Apparition may come into play if she can phase behind all of them and sneak up and take Cyke's visor. Yeah it can still fire his beams, but they are going constantly then or he can close his eyes. Either way he's much much less effective. Just a thought.

[oogie56]

It seems like the Legion are very dependant on the force field. We still don't know if Crawler can port inside it. If he can, then Brainiac gets taken out quickly, as Crawler can just port him away, leaving the rest of the Legion without the shield. Ultra Boy is tough, but if he goes with super strength to deal with Colossus, his defense is weaker, and vice versa. It just looks like the X Men have the advantage.

[Fat Ninja]

Legion of superheroes

[Manchine]

Xmen

[SumYungGai]

Sorry to the X-Fans, but I see this as an easy win for the LoSH.

[saghabashi]

X-men. Relatively easily.

[green_knight]

I give it to the team that can put up a force field, while simultaneously mind controlling Cyclops, and simultaneously using magnetism to have Wolverine beat up whoever of his own teammates Cyclops hasn't gotten to yet under Saturn Girl's control. A little burts of Superman's Superspeed to finish off any stragglers, and this one's over.

I vote for the legion.

Way tougher than their names would indicate. Ignore their corniness and vote for their great power combinations, teamwork, and RANGE, even through the forcefield (hey if Nightcrawler Bamfs in, I'm sure the Speed of Superman will be enough to get the first hit on him and take care of THAT problem.)

[supermangl1]

How do the X-Men know Brainaic is making the force field? I don't think he has to position himself in a certain way does he? Then Nightcrawler bamfing would be rather futile attempt if he doesn't know who to hit.

[Ignatz_Mouse]

*Using* Collosus and Wolvie as weapons is a cool idea-- I thought that Cos was at a disadvantage from the setting, but that helps him out a lot.

I'm starting to see this as a much closer battle, but I still don't see the forcefield as being that flexible in practice.

[Ignatz_Mouse]

I'm changing my vote.

Cosmic Boy being able to use Wolvie and Colossus at missles and Ultra Boy's speed are the determining factors.

I think Nightcrawler would take out the shield, but then Ultra Boy would take out both Nightcrawler and Cyclops (who's going to be an immediate threat). Saturn Girl won't be MC-ing, but she will tell the others the X-Men's weaknesses.

[Ignatz_Mouse]

If I count correctly, it's tied.

[Mr_Clicky]

X-men for the win.

[Navdi]

I guess this one is going to another one of those scenarios where Marvel fans vote for Marvel because they dont know LOSH that well and vice versa. Going to be a long, drawn out thread, with the group with more fans winning out in the end..

Anyway: vote LOSH

[Rando]

Alright, I found out what Apparition does, and I am voting Legion.

The Legions ability to read their opponents minds and defend their otherwise physically weak team is the key to their victory. Saturn Girl can coordiante her team tlepathically (and she ahs been the leader of the Legion before, this should be old hat for her) and predict Nightcrawler's moves, this will prevent Braniac from being taken out by Nightcrawler, who has no real good way to determine that Brainiac is producing the forcefield anyway. Banshee's sonic attack could feasibly penetrate the barrier, or at least the sound part of it since a lot of it is force, but the just sound based attack is unlikely to take anyone out withou the force component behind it, more importantly it should be child's play for Braniac to alter his forcefield to make it sound proof, the legion doesn't need to talk in order to communicate so long as Saturn Girl is operational and Braniac's incredible scientific knowhow should make it easy for him to know what adjustments to make. In addition so long as saturn Girl can determine what the X-men's abilities are (and any of their minds will give her this information) than she can mentally inform Braniac of Banshee beforehand and prevent Banshee form ever penetrating the forcefield (at least until the X-men batter it down which will occur given time). The real threats here are Apparition and Ultra Boy. I see the Legion operating in three groups Saturn Girl, Cosmic Boy, Livewire, and Braniac will stay in one group inside the forcfield where Saturn Girl will coordiante Livewire and Cosmic boy's offense with Branianc's defense, since Storm, Banshee, and Cyclops are all pretty much defenseless, any one of them should be east prey for this group, I'm going to assume they take Banshee, his powers would be most effective against Apparition and Ultra Boy. Apparition can make any and/or all of her self intangile, and fly via a legion flight ring, this makes her the perfect canidate to trash Cyclops, he can't hurt her, in fact noone can except for Banshee maybe, and since she can make specific parts of her body intagible and other not she can hit Cyclops without being hit in return (by him, Colossus and Wolverine, who would all be down on the ground). Ultra Boy should be able to trash Storm with realtive ease, noone of her offense can really hurt someone with Superman defenses without her whipping up a serious natural disaster (which will damage her team significantly), she can't hide in fog because of Saturn Girl's telepathy, and a single attack form Ultra Boy's super strength will put her away, in fact he could just use normal strength if he didn't want to sacrifice his defense, add to this the fact that he has perfect aerial maneverability, which Storm doesn't, and that shouldn't be too difficult a fight for him to win. This leaves Colossus and Wolverine, who couldn't contribute due to them being grounded and lacking serious ranged attacks, Cosmic Boy can levitate teh both of them and the Legion can pick the two of them apart at their leisure, with ranged attacks, nothing either of them can do to prevent this.

[proditor]

This one is easy for me, for all of the very good reasons already mentioned.

My vote: Legion of Super Heroes.

[mick77]

The X-men are has a team, extremelly powerfull, individually, it's tougher for them. But since this is a team battle, there are no real big ego (except Logan, but he can back that ego up with results) in the X-men to try and be the big hero. So the X-men win this.

[Ignatz_Mouse]

Navdi: I think everybody knows the X-Men.

Rando: Jo doesn't even have to resprt to backup from Saturn Girl-- pentra vision will spot Storm in a fogbank.

[DareDevil-fan]

After looking at the other replies, I'm going to pick the LSH to win this battle. They are the 30th century version of the JLA or Avengers.

LSH to the next round.

[malreux]

Some folks were asking earlier. Apparition can go intangible, whole or selectivley (so she can firm up just her knuckles for example). Lightning Lad's, er Livewire's current form refers to the fact that his body is now composed of super hard crystal (i don't know details on how hard, I missed the issues where it happened, but he appears to be stuck in Element Lad's body).

Some good reasons to pick the LSH-

1.)On the Sound vrs Forcefield issue-they dont have trouble talking through it because they communicate with telepathic earplugs. Likewise this means Saturn Girl doesnt have to use a lot of her attention on the telepathic focusing issue. These, as well as flight rings and trans-suits (which would protect them from moderate heat, extreme cold, and vacuum among other things) are all standard always with them equipment,

2.) As mentioned earlier-the reverse fastball special. Cosmic Boy loves to juggle and make missiles out of metal or armored people, making Wolvie and Colosus their own worst enemies

3.)Livewire can absorb and refire Lightning, between this, force fields to block wind, and transuits to eliminate cold damage, Storm's favorite offenses are pretty well neutralized.

4.)Saturn Girl does not typically do actual mind control, but she can do focused mental blast capable of knocking people out, and is a very powerful telepath in terms of reading minds and should be a good match for Nightcrawler.

5.) Mix and Match- Apparition and Ultra Boy vrs Banshee and Cyclops. Picture either of these X-men dodging a flying Wolverine or Colosus only to walk into a previously phased or ultra speed punch

This leaves plenty of room for Braniac and his amazing force field tricks to play all kind of havoc

Not saying it couldn't be done, X-men have pulled off a win against worse odds, but so has the LSH and this Legion team seems particularly well suited to taking out this group of X-Men

[Gentlegamer]

Legion of Superheroes #1

[thedon09]

I vote X-Men. I agree about the team aspect, the X-men are among the best working teams in comics, ever, and with Storm and Cyclops, they're not hurting for tactics and leadership. X-Men win in a hard fought victory.

[dj_sha]

X-Men all the way. Even though the LOSH outnumbers them, I could see the X-Men coming up with some surprises and plans to beat em.

[Q99]

Legion. The X-men are a good team and I hate to see them out, just like the Titans, but the Legion of Super Heroes has the power advantage, and is very co-ordinated themselves. Having flight and a mindreader are nice on top of that.

One vote: Legion of Super Heroes

[malreux]

LSH is more like a future Avengers than JLA. Pretty huge membership of young heros who tend to each have one power (although there are many exceptions to this rule now) that they are really good with.

[Grinner]

And the really close matches continue!

I think the Legion takes it, but not for all of the reasons people have listed.

Leadership/Coordination - From the straight leadership angle the X-men take the edge. However, from a practical coordination level the Legion more than balances this out. With no means of communication other than yelling, and with the powers of two of their team making yelling a less-effective form of communication the X-men do have a disadvantage here. The Legion have telepathic communication that covers the entire several-mile-wide arena.

Movement/Maneuverablility - Legion with a major edge. All of the Legion can fly and hover silently. Banshee can't hover well at all, and certainly isn't quiet. Nightcrawler can teleport and Storm flies, but half of the X-team is grounded.

Defensive Power - Draw. Certain individuals on both teams have good defensive powers, but many people on each team are relatively defenseless.

The X-men just got a bad draw when it comes to actual powers, though. Cosmic Boy can pretty easily handle Colossus & Wolverine, Garth can absorb any of Storm's lightning, Irma can read Nightcrawler's mind to see where he'll teleport...this particular Legion team just happens to have specific counters to just about every X-man.

And everyone seems to be forgetting Chameleon, which I suspect the X-men will as well. Until that squirrel in the tree turns into something like Abomination or the alien from Aliens and takes out Cyclops. A mountain forest setting is perfect for Cham to sneak up on any X-men.

And you'll also notice I'm not using the "everyone hides in the force-field" argument to take the X-men down, either ;)

Legion wins this one far more often than the X-men. Legion gets my vote.

[Rando]

Persoanally I think the Legion has the teamwork advantage here not the x-men. For one thing The Legion is in constant telepathic ommunication, they can coordinatte at the speed of thought and they known the x-men's powers and weaknesses via Saturn Girl. In addition most of this team has been working together since the Golden Age if I am not mistaken (which I could be, but I know these chracters are old as heck), all of it in fact except for Apparition. Saturn Girl is close personal frineds with Cosmic Boy and is married to Livewire (I think, it could be the other way around), so they are definently very close. The X-men are old hands at team efforts too, no doubt, but they are using a non-standard group (no telepathy, which they usually have), whereas the Legion is used to having it's members organized in differing groups and working anyway (The Legion typically has an active roster of about 2 dozen members, they get broken into groups to tackle seperate threats, so they are not dependant on certain set patterns, whereas the X-men tend to depend on many of their core members to cover certain bases, and without Jean they are lacking in one of those fundamentals).

[malreux]

Of course, Grinner never did answer my question of whether he is related to future Universo sidekick Grin...

[Grinner]

Originally posted by malreux
Of course, Grinner never did answer my question of whether he is related to future Universo sidekick Grin...

Nope. The nickname did come from a comic, though. Grim Jack, not the Legion. :grin:

[Jawapimp]

X-men take it. I just can't see the legion beating them. The X-men have faced very similar foes and come out usually on top. Most of the scenarios that have the LSH winning involve the X-Men just standing there waiting to die. Plus, the fight takes place in the forest setting where, in my opinion, reduces the effect of flight greatly. Range attacks are kind of hard to make through trees.

[malreux]

I inherited a bunch of those from our All American friend there. does he inhabit these boards?

[Grinner]

Originally posted by Jawapimp
Range attacks are kind of hard to make through trees.

Um...if the Legion are all in the air isn't this actually a bigger disadvantage to the X-men?

[coad14]

i vote X-men

[Ignatz_Mouse]

Yeah, the X-Men have an advantage on ranged attacks. LSH depend on Ultra Boy flying in at superspeed, or Cos using magnetism.

[proditor]

The Legion has more ranged options than that.

UltraBoy: Flash vision
Livewire: Lots o' electricity
Saturn Girl: Mind Blasts
Cosmic Boy: Magnetism

That's over half of their team actually. And in numbers, it does put them one above the X-men's 3 ranged combatants.

[VandalSavage]

My vote is for....LOSH

Mr. Savage

[Ignatz_Mouse]

Prod: I misspoke. I meant "blast attacks" ie, things trees would hamper. Forgot about Flash Vision, and wasn't counting psychic blasts or magnetism.

[proditor]

I_Mouse: Ah gotcha. That'll teach me to just pop my head back in occasionally. :)

[Rando]

If the terrain hampers ranged attacks then it places the X-men at a greater disadvantage, 2 of their 3 close combat fighters are neutralized by flight, and the third by telepathy, the X-men have ONLY ranged attacks to rely on. The x-men also cannot depend on suprise plans, the telepath prevents suprises like that.

[coad14]

the problem i am having is that is Cosmic Boy CAN use Colossus and Wolverine as weapons, won't that place him in a higher weight class, and possibly make him too strong for this tourny? when Magneto grabs hold of Colossus or Wolvie, he has to focus on it more because of their willpower. not meaning the ultimate series, but Colossus has thrown off Magneto's control before, so for Cosmic boy to do it, he has to be as strong, if not stronger than Magneto, correct?

also, Storm is not just a one-trick pony with the lighting. see can creat tornados, hail, blizzards. the snow fall would help buffer Cosmic boys' powers as snow aborbs radiation. it won't stop him totally, but it will hamper his rangew and effectiveness.

As for the whole mind-control thing. all the X-men have mental shields in place that stop them from being mind controled except from thje most powerful of telepaths, meaning Shadow king level (who is more powerful than Charles). the force field issue is moot. Nightcrawler can multi-port and hit every single legionaire while they are in the force field in quick succesion. he doesn't have to know that Brainiac is the one putting up the force field, it will drop when he hits him.

i'm sure that Brainiac's shield doesn't stop soundwaves from travelling through them, so Banshee should be able to incapacitate them all at once.

[Ignatz_Mouse]

Boy, have I swung around to the LSH. Now that I think about it, Saturn Girl is going to get the info on the X-Men long before battle in engaged. She'll tell Ultra Boy to take out the leader andmost dangerous ranged opponent, Cyclops-- which he should be able to do with no trouble using Super-Speed and flying. Even if he was somehow counter-struck and taken out in the attack, that swings things over to LSH very much.

The telepath/speedster combo is rather potent. Glad there's a counter-telepath on my team!

[coad14]

Originally posted by Ignatz_Mouse
Saturn Girl is going to get the info on the X-Men long before battle in engaged.

The telepath/speedster combo is rather potent. Glad there's a counter-telepath on my team!

all the X-men have menatl blocks that PREVENT other people from reading their minds. how can Saturn girl do this? i doubt that she is in Prof X level of telepathy.

[Ignatz_Mouse]

Originally posted by coad14
the problem i am having is that is Cosmic Boy CAN use Colossus and Wolverine as weapons, won't that place him in a higher weight class, and possibly make him too strong for this tourny? when Magneto grabs hold of Colossus or Wolvie, he has to focus on it more because of their willpower. not meaning the ultimate series, but Colossus has thrown off Magneto's control before, so for Cosmic boy to do it, he has to be as strong, if not stronger than Magneto, correct?

also, Storm is not just a one-trick pony with the lighting. see can creat tornados, hail, blizzards. the snow fall would help buffer Cosmic boys' powers as snow aborbs radiation. it won't stop him totally, but it will hamper his rangew and effectiveness.

As for the whole mind-control thing. all the X-men have mental shields in place that stop them from being mind controled except from thje most powerful of telepaths, meaning Shadow king level (who is more powerful than Charles). the force field issue is moot. Nightcrawler can multi-port and hit every single legionaire while they are in the force field in quick succesion. he doesn't have to know that Brainiac is the one putting up the force field, it will drop when he hits him.

i'm sure that Brainiac's shield doesn't stop soundwaves from travelling through them, so Banshee should be able to incapacitate them all at once.

Coad, several points.

One, Cos is not animating Colossus and Wolvie, just throwing. That's not hard.

Two, Saturn Girl doesn't mind-control generally anyway.

Snow vs Magnetism? No. True, she has more options. But not many are effective against the LSH.

If Banshee can drop the whole team at once, *he* should be in a different class. Other than his first appearance, I've never seen him shown to be so powerful.

[proditor]

Well, Brainiac's shield is Booster Gold's Shield, and I don't remember anyone thinking that Sound attacks were going to be any more effective against it than anything else would be. Also, the reason they can all still "talk" to each other is covered pretty darn well by the telepathic communicators. Sure they still move their lips and it looks just like talking, but that's more force of habit than necessity. Mon-el does it all the time in the comic without a trans-suit while in space and is still "heard" even though he isn't making any noise. Those 30th century communicators define nifty. ;)

[Ignatz_Mouse]

Saturn Girl is the most powerful of a race of powerful telepaths (though admittedly they don't seem to do mind control, mainly mind reading).

[DarthDoom]

Originally posted by Nighthawk
I vote X-Men, here is why. People seem to be giving Brainiac big props for his force field, which they should. I have never seen B5 have problems talking to other people through the force field, so obviously sound travels through it. I believe Banshee is the master of sound. the first time he met the original X-Men, Banshee screamed and they all fell unconscious.

Bigsoph, while I appreciate your scenario, it seems to have the X-men lining up to get KO'd by the LOSH.

From years of working with Prof X and Marvel Girl, you don't think Cyclops would quickly recognize Saturn Girl's mental powers and have someone take her out?

It is not a walkover, but the X-Men take it. this makes perfect sence and vote X-MEN

[DarthDoom]

I vote X-men

[spidernate]

The x-men ARE the greatest team in comics today, no matter what line up they have they work cohesivly as a unit, and this line up is sick. Yes the LOSH is dangerous but as stated before they are primarily defensive and manipulative, with the exception of unltraboy. While the X-men are all offense backed up with years of battle hardened skills. Cos is a good leader but he is no captain america, and to be perfectly honest cyke in the leadership department is.

As for the barrier defense it's invisible but cykes blasts will still bounce off it at a very long range, as soon as that happens cralwer is all over him and the LOSH will be forced to spread out, most of them taking to the air. Which because of the environment will actually be an advantage for the x-men. DTM says there are plenty of trees which will give the X-men ample cover against any airborn threat. While storm, cyke and banshee wreak havok on them from the ground with hurricane gusts, optic blasts and sonic srceams respectfully, none of which any LOSH member has a defense against other than ultraboy. if anybody comes down to the grund level wolvie and collosus will make short work of them. Everybody is right on saying that they will be non-factors in this fight becasue of the nature of the LOSH's gadgets.

In my opinion this tourny was designed for the x-men, its gonna take a lot to knock any of the X-teams out of this thing and I don't think the leigon has what it takes especially not in this environment.
So if anybody didn't get that I vote for the X-men

[coad14]

Originally posted by Ignatz_Mouse

Snow vs Magnetism? No. True, she has more options. But not many are effective against the LSH.


Actually, yes. Magnetism is a form of radiation (very, very weak) and snow absorbs radiation. i never said that it would stop him, but it would reduce his range and effectiveness.

Storm could very easily create weather conditions inside Brainiac's forcefield. she could create hail and knock them all out, or freeze them with artic winds, or have a tornado spring up inside the force field, or............

she can make localized weather pattersn, so she can definately do this.

[Ignatz_Mouse]

Magnetism is not radition, it's a force, like gravity. Does snow stop gravity?


And you've just amplified Storm's power the same way you did Banshee's. If we're going to play that game, Ultra Boy runs in and KOs everybody at superspeed before Colossus can even armor up. Boy. that's fun.

[proditor]

Everyone keeps talking about attacks inside Brainiac's shield. Exactly how are the X-men seeing the edge of this invisible shield to lob attacks or teleport inside of it?

So let's say Cyke blasts Brainiac and sees it bounce. They then know that he has some form of protection. Possibly Cyke is able to make out that the attack stops an inch or so from hitting. Now, the X-men can co-ordinate attacks so that Cyke's beam illuminates the edge of the field and others can attack inside of it...and someone said the voters for the LSH just had the X-men standing by and waiting to get hit?

This isn't something that will easily be noticed or recognized. Yes, the X-men are great at co-ordinating attacks, but due to the triple C (Command, Control and Communications) of the Legion, they just flat out cannot react faster as a team to differing situations than the team with telepathic ear plugs.

[coad14]

i didn't amplify storm's powers in any way at all! this is what she does.


http://www.create-your-healthy-home.com/nature/electromagnetic_radiation_01.htm

[Rando]

The X-men's mental shields are absolutely not strong enough that they are absolutely immine to mental attacks from beings as strong as the Shadow King. Mastermind created mental illusions fooling several X-men at once into beleiving that Cyclops was the Dark Phoenix in one story and he is an insect compared to The ShadowKing. Furthermore even telepaths as weak as Empath (that girl that hangs around with Sebastian Shaw) have shown no difficulty in reading the minds of the non-pshycically active members of the X-men, even outside of visual range.

Nightcrawler's multiple teleport will definently not work, Kurt is not some kind of juggernaut it will take him several punches to put down even a normal guy, and he has to teleport again after each attack to stay in the air, this will exhaust him pretty quickly. Furthermore Saturn Girl will certainly be able to predict his destination (see above) and Livewire can place an electrical attack there for Kurt to teleport into before he gets there, or Ultra Boy can zip over there faster than a speeding bullet and whoop Kurt, which will take one punch.

You have to overcome someones willpower to lift them? I don't think so, how strong Colossus and Wolverine's will is has nothing to do with how much they weigh and that is the only relevent consideration for picking them off the ground, without somthing to push off of their strength is useless.

There is no way in the world Braniac 5 can't figure out soundproofing, that is type of technology is readily available today, Braniac is not only a scientific genius, but one from the 30th century, where the casually educated would have technical know how that dwarfs the peak scientific developments of today. I find the claim that Braniac can't adjust his forcefield to insulate sound (assuming it isn't already doing so) to be totally unreasonable.

If all it took to take out Saturn Girl was for Cyclops to "have someone do so" then he must have a lot more people at his beck and call than I surmised. It isn't like Scott can summon a cadre of ninjas to appear on top of Saturn Girl and whoop her, all his combatants have to get through the forcefield first, except Nightcrawler, whom I beleive is effectively neutralized.

Storm is gonna be too busy dealing with Ultra Boy to bother Cosmic Boy. In fact there is no reason for Cosmic Boy to even bother with Colossus and Wolverine until everyone else has been taken out, all either of them can do is throw trees at Braniac's forcefield or Ultra Boy or something.

[Silver Lantern]

Against a lesser X-men team, the LOSH might have a shot, but not against THIS version of teh X-men. This is THE PREMIER X-TEAM.
My Vote: X-men.

[shinigami0079]

x-men all the way.

primary reasons

1- in most fights nightcrawler usually teleports in for first strike, secondly i think cyke has enough training with telepaths to recognize a telepath or at least what one is capable of

2-the x-men have a natural terrain advantage because a forrest setting doesnt benefit flyers too much, first off the trees would give grounded fighters cover against flyers to, this in turn helps storm who could use gale force winds to slow them down or fire blindly through the brush of the branches and leaves of the envoirment.

3-if the fight is grounded then colossus and wolverine should be enough to win a brawl against this lineup of legion of superheros

better team work and terrain make this a interesting lineup

my vote goes to the x-men

just my 2 cents

[Ignatz_Mouse]

The Legion, like the X-men, are professional heroes, full time. I think they're being shortchanged on the 'acting as a team" aspect.

[proditor]

Coad14, one question. Has storm ever done this? Has she ever used her weather powers to make it snow so that Magneto was less powerful? Serious question.

[coad14]

i don't think that she has, unfourtunatley. which is really lame becuase they supposedly have college level degrees, but they think of using it. she does do it in an X-men novel, but that hardly counts.

the only reason i even stated this is because no else had thought of it, AND it is a possibility that she could do it. just because she hasn't before (stupid), doesn't meant that she can't.

just in case that was your next question.:)

[thedon09]

I don't care what anybody says, Cosmic Boy and Magneto may be similiar power wise, but he's nothing compared to Magneto. So, I don't think it matters whether Storm's done it to Magneto or not. Not only does this team have Cyclops as a leader, but Storm as well. The two best leaders in the X-Men on one team, and the LOSH has as much leadership? I don't think so.

[Maniac_nmt]

This is easily one of the more powerful Xmen teams that can be lined up.

Cyclops is second only to Captain America for leadership, and drive to win. Colossus could be nabbed by the magnetic LOSH chap, but the Xmen have fought with Magneto often enough that I suspect this wouldn't happen, or at least not long enough to do the LOSH any good. Also Colossus has proven capable of taking the fight to Magneto and hammering him so fast and hard Magneto couldn't do anything more then not have his head removed from it's shoulders (magnetic deffensive fields).

Colossus is the weak link on this Xteam (well, vs this LOSH). However, the Xmen's supreme team work, skill, and experience vs a magnetic manipulator of far greater power and skill will over come this defficiency and hand them the win.

[Ignatz_Mouse]

Originally posted by coad14
i didn't amplify storm's powers in any way at all! this is what she does.


http://www.create-your-healthy-home.com/nature/electromagnetic_radiation_01.htm

I have yet to see Storm able to KO a bunch of opponents with an instant hailstorm, or create a mini-weather effect on the opposite side of an impentrable barrier, much less mini-weather than does more than chill people. The people in questions are wearing transuits, by the way, that protect them from cold.

And let me know when you find a link that says snow stops magnetic fields.

[malreux]

Actually, as I recall a little known (because I have only seen it come up once or twice in their whole, what 40 year run of the comic) is that Cosmic Boy's Magnetic powers are actually reduced by extreme heat.

[Ignatz_Mouse]

Originally posted by Maniac_nmt
This is easily one of the more powerful Xmen teams that can be lined up.

Cyclops is second only to Captain America for leadership, and drive to win. Colossus could be nabbed by the magnetic LOSH chap, but the Xmen have fought with Magneto often enough that I suspect this wouldn't happen, or at least not long enough to do the LOSH any good. Also Colossus has proven capable of taking the fight to Magneto and hammering him so fast and hard Magneto couldn't do anything more then not have his head removed from it's shoulders (magnetic deffensive fields).

Colossus is the weak link on this Xteam (well, vs this LOSH). However, the Xmen's supreme team work, skill, and experience vs a magnetic manipulator of far greater power and skill will over come this defficiency and hand them the win.

How does Colossus take it to somebody in the air?

[proditor]

Well, my problem is that sure, we can all come up with new ways to use the powers these guys have. But it just doesn't matter. Part of this (A huge part IMNSHO) is what they do in the comics. Just like Wolverine can cut through almost anything regardless of the lack of any real world ability to do so, Storm can't suddenly figure out new uses of her powers in a poof battle.

I dunno, that's just the guideline I follow.

I mean, otherwise, I can say that UltraBoy should be able to let Saturn Girl control his powers for him so that they switch faster than anyone can react. It's logical, the telepath working the brain and all. It makes sense. It's a new use of powers and it's certainly feasible since they all have telepathic earplugs. And it means that suddenly the X-men are fighting someone who functionally has all of Superman's powers at the same time since he switch them faster now.

But in 40+ years of continuity, they've never done it.

And really, that's all there is to that.

[Rando]

Actually Cosmic Boy, Saturn Girl, and Garth Ranzz have all been acting leaders of the entire Legion, and Chameleon Boy has been a deputy leader of smaller groups therof on occasion, and Braniac 5 is almost always involed with planning and tactics.

[Maniac_nmt]

oh, and storm can make attacks inside and through forcefields. for those wanting another instance, she did it to Xcutioner in one of the Xmen Annuals (he'd come to kill Mastermind who was dying of the legacy virus).

[thedon09]

So what. And, none of them are half the leader Cyclops is, or Storm for that matter.

[proditor]

Originally posted by thedon09
So what. And, none of them are half the leader Cyclops is, or Storm for that matter. Actually, Saturn Girl and moreover, Cosmic Boy, should be ranking right behind Cyke in that department, and ahead of or possibly tied with Storm. Read the source material please.

[Maniac_nmt]

magneto has had to be fairly close to manipulate Colossus. In which case Cyke or Banshee can put the manipulator on the ground with 1 blast (or simply use nightcrawler to bring him down).

That's why I said Colossus is the weak link, but the Xmen have enough options open to them that they can work arround it (even petey in his flesh and blood form is over olympic class athelete).

[proditor]

I reiterate. How does Storm know to attack inside a field she can't see?

[thedon09]

I don't care about the source material, I did read it. Storm is underated as a leader, she's right under Cyclops. Sorry, I'm not going to put Cosmic Boy above Storm as a leader, and definitely not Saturn Girl.

[proditor]

thedon09: That's your preference of course. I think you're completely wrong, but that's my preference.

[malreux]

Actually, the Legion is well organized enough that it's leaders have on several occasions coordinated dozens of members in combat against a single powerful foe like Mordru or Darkseid without getting in each others way and while maintaining maximum possible pressure against the foe, as well as managing fights with the entire group of the Legion and other supergroups against thousands of super powered foes(for instance, the Great Darkness Saga) and this particular team is made up of many of the Legion's longest running leaders.

[thedon09]

I agree proditor, we can agree to disagree.

[Rando]

on the contrary, anyone leading the Legion has to coordiante the actions of typically 20-40 members (or even more occasionally) across the entire universe to combat threats that are galactic in scale. This has included entities or groups that can teleport planets around, control the minds of entire planetray populations, destroy planets by touching them, as well as nuerous other incredible powers. Furthermore many of these threats have armies at their disposal that have, in at least one instance, contained billions (literally) of entites all with the powers of Superman that could travel through space unaided. The X-men need to coordiante members that are typically (but not always) within earshot, consist of usually less that 20 people, and are confronting singular threats that are threats is a single country, or somethimes the entire planet Earth. So the leaders of the Legion must contend with greater distances, more people, and stronger threats.

[oogie56]

So to summerize the last few pages of snappy banter-the two teams are pretty even, depending on what YOUR personal opinion.

[thedon09]

Once again, we can agree to disagree people. I really don't care about all these instances and reasons. Everyone has their own opinion, leave it at that

[malreux]

yup

[coad14]

http://www.crseo.ucsb.edu/hydro/aviris/optics.html


there. i think that this is the right one.

[thedon09]

Nice coad14. I love it when someone has the proof.

[proditor]

I think it's great research Coad14, I still don't see it as applicable in the least based on the character in the comics. But as thedon09 said, we all have our opinions. Great research work regardless.

[coad14]

thank you. she has used her powers in this fashion in an X-men novel that i have. it is called X-men: Sanctuary. it is book 2 of a trilogy where Magneto takes control of 20 sentinels and takes over Manhatten Island. half the X-men are captured, (the other half are in space) and she creates a wall of snow that protects her from Magneto. i know it isn't the comics, and some writers explore rarely used methods, but i think she COULD do it. that is the whole point of these threads. who do you think would win and why.

take what i say how you want to. i am just giving reasons to back up my arguement.:)

[Ignatz_Mouse]

Coad, that's for it's ability to stop light and non-visible bands of the electromagnetic spectrum, not magnetism itself.

Manisc, we're (or at least I'm) not talking about manipulating colossus, just throwing him (and Wolverine) at the others. Cos tosses people around all the time, very, very easily.

[coad14]

check out the link at the top of this page. it says


Electromagnetic radiation is a broad term which stands for many types of radiation, but popular usage relates it mainly to AC magnetic fields

[EJS]

I go with the X-Men

[Grinner]

Originally posted by thedon09
I don't care about the source material, I did read it. Storm is underated as a leader, she's right under Cyclops. Sorry, I'm not going to put Cosmic Boy above Storm as a leader, and definitely not Saturn Girl.

As you have said, that is your opinion. Personally, looking at the time Storm was the leader of the X-men she did a real cruddy job. I can't remember where the article was, but someone actually went through her entire run as solo leader and broke it down. Over and over she did not do what was best for the team.

[Maniac_nmt]

well, seeing as magneto doesn't fling colossus about very easy, don't see any LOSH guy doing it either.

Oh, and Xcutioner's force field was invisible, simple trial and error. If the first blast doesn't fry braniac, well then he must have a forcefield yes. Simple, flash fry the air arround him and he's toast. Works that way vs any char she's notices has a forcefield.

So that's how she nails the guy inside one you can't see.

[Maniac_nmt]

assuming of course she wants to, or feels the need to.

[Grinner]

Originally posted by Maniac_nmt
Simple, flash fry the air arround him and he's toast. Works that way vs any char she's notices has a forcefield.

Of course, the fact that he's wearing a transuit that allows him to survive in space does kind of limit the effectiveness of messing with the air inside of the force-field.

[Grinner]

Originally posted by Maniac_nmt
well, seeing as magneto doesn't fling colossus about very easy, don't see any LOSH guy doing it either.

Outside of the Ultimate X-men, when has Magneto ever had trouble flinging a metallic Pyotr around? Holding him in place on the ground, where Petey can use leverage and his strength, yes. But picking him up off the ground?

Is it really that much harder to pick up 500 pounds of living metal than 500 tons of non-living metal?

[Maniac_nmt]

This is THE Xteam to beat, and this terrain gives them a lot more of an advantage then it does the legion. These members worked together the longest, function the best together, and play off of each other the best.

I will chip in with some of the Legion supporters and say Storm isn't the greatest leader in the world. She's not worthless, but not top tier like the mono'orbed one is. She isn't able to sacrifice pieces like Cyke is, and is to emotionally attached and involved with her team (sure cyke might be knocking boots with jean, but it's almost never stopped him from sending her into certain death situations without a moments hesitation. Ororo lacks that command decision capability, or at least enough of the time. Nor does she wield Scott's commanding pressance. I'd say the LOSH chappies can certainly match up to her, not up to Scott, but up to Ororo and then a little sure).

What Ororo does bring is the ability to assume command and be capable should Scott go down (unlikely since he always seemed to be the last to fall).

[coad14]

http://www.noradcorp.com/1tutor.htm

and i was wrong. snow doesn't ABSORB electromagnetic fields, it reflects them back.

[spidernate]

I know their powers are similar, and I can understand using him as an example for the situation but will people please stop comparing cosmic boy to magneto. it's ridiculous (cos is nowhere near mags power level) and if Eric was reading this thread I think his feelings might get hurt

[Ignatz_Mouse]

Magneto *does* toss Wolverine and Colossus around.

I don't think you can reflect a magnetic field. I could be wrong, though. They aren't rays like light, they're fields. Anybody know?

[Rokk_Krinn]

I'm voting for the Legion of Super-Heroes here.

1) The teams are not *poofed* right next to each other, so the advantage is going to go to the team that can mentally scout out the other side. That would be Saturn Girl who's been shown to have world-wide range with her telepathy.

2) Colossus and Wolverine? Metal, baby. They're going to be juggling balls for Cosmic Boy.

3) Ultra-Boy may only be able to use one power at a time but he switches them _fast_. A super-speedster clocking you with Daxamite-level strength is going to hurt anyone. His flash vision is actually slightly more powerful than most Daxamites (in the old days it's how he was inducted into the Legion) which means mega-heat-vision.

4) Wildcard here is Garth Ranzz. This isn't Lightning Lad, folks. This is Garth in the body of Jan Arrah - the Trommite elemental transmuter. He's not a master of the powers yet, but being able to shift his body into an absurdly hard crystal to deal with Cyke's beams, while transmuting the air into knock-out compounds, is a tough opponent.

5) Brainy's forcefields and super-fast thinking capability. Remember how tough Booster was? This is the originator of Booster's powers, but with an upgraded version who's better at using the fields (faster and able to use more than one at a time). Now, everyone who voted for Booster, feel free to vote for Brainiac 5.1. :)

6) How you going to hurt Apparition? She's like Kitty without the time-limit folks.

The X-folks are tough but they're going against some of the best the DCU has to offer. Another way to think of it is a way phrased in the old days of the Brave & the Bold series: the Legion farm-team could shake down with the JLA (satellite era) and come out just fine.

[Jawapimp]

I don't understand why this force field of Brainiac's would be remotely useful. Can the Legion attack through it and the X-Men can't? And if sound cant penetrate the force field then how much air is available in it? And Saturn Girl on-par with CHARLES XAVIER? This is madness!

[Q99]

I personally still see a strong power advantage for the Legion.

The X-men have a great leader in Scott, however the Legion does have some great leaders of their own with the advantage of telepathic communication. They're at the least pretty close to even. Aside from that, the X-men have few fliers, a few members who will probably serve primarily as weapons for the opponent at worst, and have little effect due to being ground-bound at best. Their two heavy hitters, Colossus and Storm, can't use their primary powers at anything near full.

Aside from this, the Legion still has the power advantage. Most of the time, these combined advantages (power, flight, having several opponents mostly neutralized), used in co-ordination, are going to be good enough to take on even this X-men team (and it's not a priemer X-man team without Jean, IMO).

It's a strong group, but the Legion's advantages stack up well against them in this fight.

[Grinner]

Originally posted by Jawapimp
I don't understand why this force field of Brainiac's would be remotely useful. Can the Legion attack through it and the X-Men can't? And if sound cant penetrate the force field then how much air is available in it? And Saturn Girl on-par with CHARLES XAVIER? This is madness!

Actually, yes Saturn Girl and Cosmic Boy can both operate through it.

There doesn't have to be any air in it. Each Legionnaire has, in addition to their flight ring, a transuit that keeps them alive (and that they can use their powers through) in space.

And finally, I'm guessing you haven't read any Legion comics if you're really so outraged at Saturn Girl being on-par with Xavier when it comes to reading minds. You're right - she's not. She's on par with Xavier using Cerebro. She has scanned an entire planetoid before without mechanical assistance. She is one of the most powerful telepaths in the entire 30th century DC galaxy.

[Ignatz_Mouse]

Satrun Girl is on par (or better) than Xavier at reading minds. I don't remember her EVER being able to control them. SHe can also hit with psychic blast type attacks.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Originally posted by spidernate
I know their powers are similar, and I can understand using him as an example for the situation but will people please stop comparing cosmic boy to magneto. it's ridiculous (cos is nowhere near mags power level) and if Eric was reading this thread I think his feelings might get hurt

Cos doesn't have Eric's raw power when it comes to manipulating the EM-spectrum (e.g.: electric blasts or concentrated force-fields). However, regarding quantity and skill of metal manipulation they're not far off of each other. Remember that one of Cos's current favourite tricks is to reshape and manipulate the metal plates on his costume into projectile weapons, Cap. America-style shields (obviously not as tough :) ), platforms, ensnaring spheres, etc. That shows me some serious metal-manipulation. Weight-wise we've seen him pull back fully-loaded interstellar cruisers or tear up a sub-ground railway.

[Swiftspeedster]

I'm gonna vote for the Legion

[Rokk_Krinn]

Originally posted by Jawapimp
I don't understand why this force field of Brainiac's would be remotely useful. Can the Legion attack through it and the X-Men can't? And if sound cant penetrate the force field then how much air is available in it? And Saturn Girl on-par with CHARLES XAVIER? This is madness!

If Brainy chooses to have it stop sound, then, yes the field can stop sound attacks. He's also used it to stop gas-attacks which means he can make it impermeable to air. The LSH has their tran-suits (standard equipment every Legionnaire carries with them), flight rings which allow communication and, hey, Imra for telepathic linking. You want to see a use for Brainy's force-field? How about encasing Banshee's head in a bubble so he can't fly (his sound waves won't get the range they need)? Of course, Imra can always make Sean forget how to use his powers, but you asked about Brainy.

[Nighthawk]

I believe it was Xmen 113 or 114 where storm used cold to affect Magneto's use of magnetism.

Anyone forget Unus the Untouchable (ok, he's forgettable) but Cyclops has fought him and his forcefield before, so he would recognize that power quickly.

How many times has Wolverine aced a shapeshifter becuase they didnt know he would smell them?

I agree that Colossus would be a non-factor, but he would not be a pinball either, he would turn human after being grabbed.

Again, my vote is still Xmen

[Ignatz_Mouse]

If it's happened in the comics, I'm cool (ha ha) with it.

Yeah, Peter is going to turn human again. But he's going to be out of commission.

Funny, I originally thought the X-Men would win this, but more and more I think the LSH can't lose. Too versatile. And I'm not talking about the Force Field, but just Ultra Boy. I don't think the X-Men can stop him with the rest of the team attacking.

[Maximcards]

X-men

[ace]

This is a very close fight.
i tired of the quick solution fight from the middleweight division (red tornado blows his opponent away the end). So I don't even want to think about the force field (besides, does the legion even fight like that?) And if there is a force field put up nightcrawler can teleport through it and knock our braniac to let the fight go the way it will. Now the magnetism is the scary part since wolverine and colossus become very vulnerable. Colossus can shift to human form and still run around doing stuff, and get close to cosmic boy to armor up and smash. overall this is very close, but I say the x-men nudge it out. All the x-men are a threat that have been doing this for awhile (as a team) and though the losh are good teammates I still think they fall by an inch here. (If shadowcat was on the team it would be a no contest.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Lots of talk about Brainy, Cos, and Imra. Bit of talk about Jo and surprisingly little talk about Tinya, Garth and Cham. It's always the things people ignore that bite you. :)

1) Like I noted above, while Garth may not be casting lightning - being he doesn't have his original body anymore - I'm fairly certain elemental transmutation is handy. All that snow Storm thinks will deaden magnetism? It just became chlorine gas.

2) Cyke's blasts are great, I agree, but they're going to go right through Apparition. Tinay solidifies her hand at the second it would connect for a punch and then rephases (she doesn't need to solidify all of herself). Remember how everyone hated how hard it was to hurt Sandman? Not too unsimilar of a situation here.

3) Everyone keeps talking about how Logan can pick up on Cham via scent. Good idea, except for one small problem - Cham's scent can be changed as well. This is a complete and utter physical change - including scent glands and pheremones - and Cham's dealt with "scenter"-types in the past (e.g.: current Timberwolf). They've never picked up on Cham. A second later that tree is smacking down a limb on Nightcrawler. I should also mention that Cham's body is outrageously pliable if he so chooses (think Mr. Fantastic though he doesn't stretch as far) and he can rapidly change the locations of his organs to protect himself from damage.

[Ignatz_Mouse]

ace, Cosmic Boy will be flying. Colossus can't run up to him.

Rough counting has the X-Men up by three-- but don't quote me on it.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Originally posted by ace
And if there is a force field put up nightcrawler can teleport through it and knock our braniac to let the fight go the way it will. Now the magnetism is the scary part since wolverine and colossus become very vulnerable. Colossus can shift to human form and still run around doing stuff, and get close to cosmic boy to armor up and smash.

Two quick points:

1) Brainiac - in addition to the bubbles and fields he projects - usually keeps a skintight (yes, really) shield around himself for protection in the midst of combat. I don't see much room for Nightcrawler to teleport inside of that.

2) Cos can manipulate more than just ferrous metals. He's best with ferrous metals, absolutely, but he has lesser control of non-ferrous metals (e.g.: we've seen him move lead objects). Looking at Pieter's uniform, I wouldn't be surprised to see some metal on there. Between that and Cos's flight (note he doesn't need a flight ring but uses one for its' other capabilities or so he can focus his powers on a non-flight purpose), I don't see how Peter's getting close to Cosmic Boy to do some smashing (especially if Cos starts using the metal discs on his outfit for offensive purposes).

[Silver Lantern]

Originally posted by Maniac_nmt
Colossus is the weak link on this Xteam (well, vs this LOSH).

BS, Colossus can become human/organic metal at will. The second Cosmic punk tries some magnetism carp, he realizes it, turns human, and smashes him.

[malger]

Frankly, Cosmic Boy could take out Colossus and Wolverine by himself. Apparition could take out Storm, while Chameleon waits for the opportunity to take out Nightcrawler. Brainy quickly realizes that Cyclops' beam won't penetrate the ruby Quartz and Garth uses his transmutational abilities to enclose his head in a ruby quartz bubble.
LOSH wins.

[Maniac_nmt]

Cyke's beams sure as hell will kick the carp outta Braniac.

What you're telling me is that Braniac's fields are more durable then Onslaught (something more durable then even Superman). Cause Scott knocked big O on his kiester with one shot.

Since people don't die, there is no reason for scott to ever hold it in check in this tourney. Hell, he could probably drop 2 or three LOSH in one blast if they're close enough.

Knowing people won't stay dead, equals one very bad ### mr. summers.

First blood will definately be scored by the Xteam anyway.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Originally posted by Maniac_nmt
What you're telling me is that Braniac's fields are more durable then Onslaught (something more durable then even Superman). Cause Scott knocked big O on his kiester with one shot.

Since people don't die, there is no reason for scott to ever hold it in check in this tourney. Hell, he could probably drop 2 or three LOSH in one blast if they're close enough.

Knowing people won't stay dead, equals one very bad ### mr. summers.


Hrnh, guess I've got different issues of the Onslaught comics because I seem to remember the Big O stringing up the X-Men and it taking a combined force of FF, Avengers, X-Men, some of the Inhumans, assorted heroes and Dr. Doom to drop Onslaught. Seems funny they went to all that effort if all it took was Scott's blasts. :)

Also, last I checked the characters fighting don't know opponents won't stay dead. Based upon that arguement than Jay Garrick will be sure to punch through everyone at near-lightspeed. For this fight, Ultra Boy will gladly take that role and just super-speed Scott and break Scotty's neck. Seems like that arguement just doesn't work - everyone fights as if this was "real" which means, no, Scott is not going for killing blows.

[bizzaro]

I think the key here is Cosmic boy. His magnetic powers can render Wolverine and Colossus helpless until the rest of the Legion can go to town on the rest of the X-men. Saturn Girl can control Cyclops to take down Banshee, and Ultra-boy can switch to invulnerability and proceed to beat Storm senseless. Brainiac's forcefield can defend against any ranged attacks. I'm not sure what Apparition does, but to me she/he is gravy at this point.

I'm an X-fan, but I think the Legion (with the flight rings too) take down the X-men in this one ....

[BAKID]

LOSH takes it. This X-team could sure use Jean in this matchup. Without her, I think Saturn Girl's telepathy will be able to give the Legion a big advantage in terms of battlefield intelligence, and while Braniac's force-field is not some sort of "auto win" for the Legion, it definitely nullifies the "killed before they know what hit 'em" arguments.

Of course, the X-men fans have reached the point of arguing that Collosus even in his human form will "smash" Cosmic Boy without a second thought, so I'm not sure if there is a point in putting out reasoned arguments.

[techdog]

It is hard for me to vote against my favorite x-man, Colossus, but I think that the terrain favors the LSH too much. If it were an indoor fight were Wolvie and Colossus could be better used, I think that the x-men would have the advantage, but with the outdoor terrain, the flight rings of the Legion give them too much of an advantage. Although, I think this fight is a lot closer than a lot of people are giving credit for. I do see a way for the x-men to win, but it would require a first strike by Banshee to that has little chance of getting thru. So, I will reluctnantly conceed that the LSH would win this fight more times than not.

My vote=Legion

[Ignatz_Mouse]

I keep hearing a couple of things that bug me.

Some facts
1) Saturn Girl doesn't control people.
2) Colossus CAN'T FLY. Therefore he is not going to slug Cosmic Boy.

[Ignatz_Mouse]

Rough count has LSH up by one.

[Ignatz_Mouse]

I stand corrected: Saturn Girl has limited Mind Control powers. I doubt they'd work on the X-Men, though.

I think this is a little dated, but it'll do.


SATURN GIRL
Imra Ardeen of Titan. All residents of Titan have telepathic abilities, but Saturn Girl possesses a higher level of telepathic ability than most Titanians. She is able to scan and read sentient minds, communicate non-verbally with others, and can gain limited control of another's mind or actions. In a battle with Dr. Psycho, the villain released some protective barriers in Saturn Girl's mind which augmented her powers substantially. She is dating Live Wire. She currently leads the Legion.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Ignatz is right that Imra doesn't usually control opponent's minds (though it is an option and as the original "Ice Queen" she may not have too many compunctions against it - for example, way back in the Silver Age she mentally controlled the entire team to vote her in as leader :) ).

She does, however, frequently influence opponent's perceptions, keep track of an opponent's thoughts so she can "guess" their next action or do things like create a fake "voice" to throw off a foe (e.g.: she could have Storm believe she heard Cyclops give an order he didn't). Imra doesn't like to use brute telepathic force. It's an option for her, but her preference is more subtle.

Biggest advantage it gives in this fight is not only increased team communication/coordination (think J'onn for the JLA), but also the ability to scout out opponent's locations or read their strategies/actions.

[Ignatz_Mouse]

I wonder if Saturn Girl is related to Thanos? :)

[Rokk_Krinn]

Originally posted by Ignatz_Mouse
I wonder if Saturn Girl is related to Thanos? :)

Second cousin, twice removed on her Uncle McGuffin's side. ;)

[Gorrack]

I vote the X-men in a very close fight.

[Q99]

Don't forget that Cyclops isn't the only one with Eyebeams. Ultraboy has Superman-level eyebeams and is quite capable of doing a wide blast or concentrated blast capable of taking out pretty much anyone on the X-men team. He could definitely use it against the X-fliers fairly well, since they tend to not have the strongest defenses besides flight.

[DTM]

Originally posted by coad14
the problem i am having is that is Cosmic Boy CAN use Colossus and Wolverine as weapons, won't that place him in a higher weight class, and possibly make him too strong for this tourny? when Magneto grabs hold of Colossus or Wolvie, he has to focus on it more because of their willpower. not meaning the ultimate series, but Colossus has thrown off Magneto's control before, so for Cosmic boy to do it, he has to be as strong, if not stronger than Magneto, correct?


I agree 100%. I had no idea Cosmic Boy was in Magnetos weight class, and hed have to be to hold and control BOTH Colossus and Wolverine. (remember, they both would be resisting with everything they are, meaning CB would have to have Unearthly to Shift X, Marvel RPG, Magnetic powers to handle them both, and this is in fact Magneto level) If this is so, and CB IS in fact a Magneto clone, he would have to be eliminated as Magneto was too powerful for this contest. Any thoughts on CBs power levels now?

[DTM]

Originally posted by proditor
Well, Brainiac's shield is Booster Gold's Shield, and I don't remember anyone thinking that Sound attacks were going to be any more effective against it than anything else would be. Also, the reason they can all still "talk" to each other is covered pretty darn well by the telepathic communicators. Sure they still move their lips and it looks just like talking, but that's more force of habit than necessity. Mon-el does it all the time in the comic without a trans-suit while in space and is still "heard" even though he isn't making any noise. Those 30th century communicators define nifty. ;)

Booster DOES NOT wear the LOSH earplugs, so if he can talk thru his Force Field, and I believe he does, Sound should be able to penetrate it, meaning Banshee.

[coad14]

Originally posted by Grinner
And finally, I'm guessing you haven't read any Legion comics if you're really so outraged at Saturn Girl being on-par with Xavier when it comes to reading minds. You're right - she's not. She's on par with Xavier using Cerebro. She has scanned an entire planetoid before without mechanical assistance. She is one of the most powerful telepaths in the entire 30th century DC galaxy.

that is heavy weight credentials right there. anyway that powerful shouldn't be here. i doubt that Xaiver would be allowed in this tourny based on sheer power, so how can someone MORE powerful be allowed in? using cerebro, Xavier could essentially defeat anybody due to power and range. if she is THAT powerful......

[DTM]

Im voting XMen here.

This LOSH teams biggest strengths, judging from most of the previous posts, are Cosmic Boys Magnetic powers and Saturn Girl Mental powers.

The XMens ARCH ENEMY, is Magneto, the MASTER of Magnetism. They have fought him MANY times through the years, and are still here today. I dont see Cosmic Boys magnetic skills throwing THIS XMen team into disarray.

Saturn Girl is an AMAZING Mentalist, but so is Professor X, who trained all of these XMen with many forms of mental shielding, not even counting their own great Willpowers. Again, the XMen are USED to dealing with Mentalist, such as White Queen and even Professor X himself. I just dont see Saturn Girls telepathy really throwing the XMen into a state of panic.

The XMen are used to dealing with BOTH Vastly Powerful Magnetic characters and Mental opponents, and always manage to come out on top. I see them doing that here as well, though it would be one HECK of a battle.

Winner - XMen

Current Voting Totals:

XMen #1 -26 votes
LOSH #1 - 24 votes

[skyounkin]

Long live the legion!!!

[Grinner]

Originally posted by DTM
I agree 100%. I had no idea Cosmic Boy was in Magnetos weight class, and hed have to be to hold and control BOTH Colossus and Wolverine. (remember, they both would be resisting with everything they are, meaning CB would have to have Unearthly to Shift X, Marvel RPG, Magnetic powers to handle them both, and this is in fact Magneto level) If this is so, and CB IS in fact a Magneto clone, he would have to be eliminated as Magneto was too powerful for this contest. Any thoughts on CBs power levels now?

Checking one of the sites with Legion stats in MSH Cos does, in fact, have Unearthly magnetic powers. What he doesn't have are the power stunts, EMP blast, personal force field, or energy control powers. Plus Maggie has more health and nearly double the Karma of Cosmic Boy.

So he's really the proto-typical Legionnaire: do one thing, but do it really well. I'd say he fits the power-level here just fine. He just lucked into a team that has two heavy-metal members.

[Grinner]

Originally posted by coad14
that is heavy weight credentials right there. anyway that powerful shouldn't be here. i doubt that Xaiver would be allowed in this tourny based on sheer power, so how can someone MORE powerful be allowed in? using cerebro, Xavier could essentially defeat anybody due to power and range. if she is THAT powerful......

Again, it comes down to the same thing as Cosmic Boy above. Charles does a lot more things with his telepathy than Irma usually does. She reads minds, she doesn't control them. She can do mental blasts, but doesn't use them often.

What she can do is read the X-men's minds, even with their training from Charles.

[Silver Lantern]

If Cosmic boy is pretty close to Magneto level, I say he has to be banned. And then the LOSH is toast (even though they are anyway). And if he's not that powerful, then he just gets his butt whooped.
So the choices are:
1) The LOSH loses because Cosmic boy is too weak, OR
2) Cosmic Boy is dropped because he's too strong and the LOSH still loses.

Heads I win, tails you lose. ;)

[petenliz9]

LOSH

[Grundy22]

I know next to nothing about the LoSH and I am an X-Fan, but just from the info provided here and the arguments presented I am gonna say the LoSH takes this one. Also I am wondering if some people are even reading about the LoSH before they post or if they are just checking who it is and assuming the X-Men will beat a group they have never heard of or heard little about. All I am saying is that if you don't really know that much about the LoSH take the time to read all the posts provided by people who do.

[CyberVenom]

Round 1:
Ultra Boy and Colossus fight to a standstill.
Storm short circuits Cosmic Boy.
Saturn Girl is taken down by Nightcrawler.
Garth and Chameleon team up on Banshee, taking him down.
Brainiac and Cyclops fight to a standstill.
Apparition takes down Wolverine.

Round 2:
Apparition joins Brainiac, and they take down Cyclops.
Ultra Boy begins to get the upper hand on Colossus.
Storm takes down Garth.
Chameleon and Nightcrawler fight to a standstill.

Round 3:
Ultra Boy takes down Colossus.
Apparition joins Chameleon to take down Nightcrawler.
Storm and Brainiac fight to a standstill.

Round 4:
Storm unleashes fully on Ultra Boy, Apparition, Chameleon, and Brainiac. Chameleon is taken down before Storm falls to the rest of the Legion.

Winner: LoSH

[Ignatz_Mouse]

Cosmic Boy doesn't have to arrest them, just lift them. That's comically easy to do.

And DTM, you're forgetting that they have a guy who can move as fast, is strong as, and tough as Superman (just not all at once).

[Silver Lantern]

I repeat, between Superman and Magneto on this team the LOSH needs to be either disqualified or rebuilt. This is ridiculous. :devious:

[Ignatz_Mouse]

We haven't ruled out the Flash. Ultra Boy is in that class.

It's a bad draw for the X-Men. All fliers, and somebody who can lift two of their members off the ground and hold them there.

Cosmic Boy is not Magneto. But Colossus and Wolverine, being majot metal guys and NOT flying, are particularly susceptiple to him.

[Silver Lantern]

Wolverine can't fly? Anyone here heard of the fastball special? Oh he CAN fly. ;)

[Grinner]

Originally posted by Silver Lantern
Wolverine can't fly? Anyone here heard of the fastball special? Oh he CAN fly. ;)

Being launched in a trajectory is just a little different than being able to hover and/or change direction ;)

And then there's that "landing" thing :p

[Silver Lantern]

Grinner have you forgotten that Wolverine can just sever limbs at will? All he has to do is get within 10 feet of a LOSH person, and limbs are flying everywhere. ;)

[green_knight]

HEY! But that makes Wolverine too powerful for this contest!
WaaaaaaaaaH!

[Grinner]

Originally posted by Silver Lantern
Grinner have you forgotten that Wolverine can just sever limbs at will? All he has to do is get within 10 feet of a LOSH person, and limbs are flying everywhere. ;)

I thought he fought ninjas, not was one :cheeky: :cheeky:

[malreux]

guys, I have to say that saying Cosimic Boy's ability to use his magnetic powers to affect metal is too powerful for the tournament is a new level of silly. He is not all powerful god Magneto who can make permanent changes to the electromagnetic system of the whole earth, and control energy in all its forms. He has magnetism. He can lift a couple of people who are made of metal in the air and swing them around. If this makes him too powerful for the tournament than likewise Cyclops is too powerful because his eyebeams can hit people, and Wolverine because he can cut things. Likewise Saturn Girl is an awesome telepath, but she does not normally to mind control. This does not mean she is "too weak" or "useless" it is just how she is (apart from elections and such)

[malreux]

also, Im not sure what bearing willpower has on ones magnetic properties. in any case

[GreatArelius1]

LoSH

[Arishem]

LSH any day, X-Men are good, but LSH has Braniac, I think he's decisive in giving orders that others will listen to, and he'll formulate a plan that will put the mutants packing, besides, the X-Men listed are at a serious hurt against Saturn Girls psychic powers. A fastball special goes nowhere fast when Cosmic Boy puts a magnetic stop on Wolvies skeleton, and as for storm she'll be slapped down quick enough by Ultra Boy. Crawler might be a problem at first, but I think Saturn Girl would be the end of him.

[Iceman425]

Originally posted by Rokk_Krinn
[B
The X-folks are tough but they're going against some of the best the DCU has to offer. Another way to think of it is a way phrased in the old days of the Brave & the Bold series: the Legion farm-team could shake down with the JLA (satellite era) and come out just fine. [/B]

Comments like this and quoting people at Charles + Cerebro Level, Superman, and Magneto's power levels all add up to one thing. TOO POWERFUL FOR THIS TOURNEY.

Come on, honestly. This is the best the Legion has to offer, and the farm team could handle the JLA (which line-up)? Man how did I miss these levels of power while everyone was whining about Blackbolt and war mode Thunderbird.

Unfortunately I did not have enough time to sit and scour the initial nominations to see just how powerful this team was (and even if we were completely notified of their power levels). If all the above comparisons are true then can anyone beat the Legion in this mix? I don't quite think so.

I don't think they belong here, and I'm not voting in this round. If I did it would be unfair because I'd be voting for a team (X-Men) because I feel the other does not belong. If you bring their power levels down, then the X-Men have a shot and I'd have to reconsider. I'm not whining, I'm just realisticly trying to get a grasp on how powerful the Legion is and wipe away all the exaggerations.

Just my two cents, no vote for me right now.

[Jawapimp]

Something i just thought of. If cosmic boy, or any of the legion for that matter, have never fought wolverine, then who do will they know his whole skeleton is composed of a metal?

[Ignatz_Mouse]

I don't think the LSH is too powerful for this tournament, but I do think the X-Men may be a little too weak (in this team config). Half the team has no defense, and most of them only have one attack option. I think they'd lose to most of the teams that have gone so far.

Iceman should be added, to address both of those things.

[Ignatz_Mouse]

I also think the whole "wipe the floor with the JLA" is an overstatement. This Legion line-up is tough, but I could see the JSA taking them down, or the JLA teams. The Hellfire club would do well, too.

[Rando]

I think Cosmic Boy is well within the limits of this tournament, saying that because he can left Colossus and wolverine at range makes him Magneto is totally off base. Together they probably weigh as much as a car and a half which is a trivial amount of weight in super-hero land, Jean Grey could do the exact same thing easily, and she also has a heap of other powers on top of lifting, and she doesn't require what she lifts to be metal. It isn't like Cosmic Boy is controling their motor functions he just picks them up, their strength is useless in mid air they can't generate levergae to resist, and Cosmic Boy could tell wolverine has some metal to him by looking at his claws, he may try to "steal" the claws first or lift Wolverine by his hands, but that will generate effectively the same result.

I'm not sure how I feel about Saturn Girl, everywhere I've seen her made her look like she was just single target mantal blasts (and not ultra powerful ones at that) and broadband telepathy, to my mind Emma Frost is terribly more dangerous she has fully operational multi-target mindcontrol on top of all of Saturn Girl's stuff, although she can't fly, plus Emma's intagible team member can affect her too. Although I'm not terribly Legion familiar so I could be mistaken.

Ultra Boy makes me leery, but he has fought a duplicate of Wonder Woman on Warworld before, and he lost pretty soundly, so make of that what you will.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Originally posted by DTM
I agree 100%. I had no idea Cosmic Boy was in Magnetos weight class, and hed have to be to hold and control BOTH Colossus and Wolverine. (remember, they both would be resisting with everything they are, meaning CB would have to have Unearthly to Shift X, Marvel RPG, Magnetic powers to handle them both, and this is in fact Magneto level) If this is so, and CB IS in fact a Magneto clone, he would have to be eliminated as Magneto was too powerful for this contest. Any thoughts on CBs power levels now?

Just because Cos can manipulate and lift metal as well as Magnus doesn't mean he's in Magneto's weight-class. He doesn't affect the whole EM-spectrum directly, doesn't fire EM-bolts, and doesn't have a highl-focused personal force-field. Secondly, I think your math is a little off for a couple reasons, no offense. One, Peter's strength is Monstrous which coupled with Logan's less-than-one-ton strength would hardly put things at Shift-X. Two, tossing metal around isn't going to be affected by "strength resistance" (this has been a misunderstanding in a few match-ups) - a lot of it is leverage. All Cos has to do is lift them an inch off the ground and their strength is literally useless for resisting. This is, for example, why it only takes approximately 10 lbs. of active pull-down resistance to keep a grown man from surfacing underwater (e.g.: a tiny Humboldt squid's strength while not enough to keep the man from unwrapping its' tentacles, can still be enough to keep him underwater). Considering Peter and Logan probably collectively weigh-in at less than a few tons, that's not much weight do deal with and that's if he tries to move both at once.

As noted, yes, the Legion members are strong in their balliwick but they're pretty specialized. They don't do a lot of the "extraneous powers" (e.g.: I can control magnetism so that means I can create a pure energy blast) you see many other characters do. 'Sides, I would say if Sandman - whom people kept citing as fighting the whole Fantastic Four solo :) - did alright in the Middleweight Tourney w/out being ejected...:) *jk*

[Q99]

Originally posted by DTM
Im voting XMen here.

This LOSH teams biggest strengths, judging from most of the previous posts, are Cosmic Boys Magnetic powers and Saturn Girl Mental powers.



I'd actually say Ultra Boy's powers are more important, it's just that Cosmic Boy and Saturn Girl are getting the attention for the reasons mentioned- X-men have metal team members and are heavily associated with a magnetism-based foe, and they usually have telepaths.

The discussion has just gotten heavy on these two, because Cosmic Boy could float Colossus and Wolverine, and Saturn Girl could... hmm, I'm not really why there's so much emphasis on Saturn Girl. She's helpful, but not pivatol to the Legion's side. Much less than Ultra and Cosmic IMO.


I also think the whole "wipe the floor with the JLA" is an overstatement. This Legion line-up is tough, but I could see the JSA taking them down, or the JLA teams. The Hellfire club would do well, too.

Indeed. I think the Titans as well. A Flash, Starfire and Troia, and Jericho (who has a much better chance of grabbing Ultra Boy than he does one of the JSA), would put up quite a good fight, although the JSA team would definitely put up a better one (They have Powergirl. Probably one of the two strongest bruisers who got in).

[Rokk_Krinn]

Originally posted by Ignatz_Mouse
I also think the whole "wipe the floor with the JLA" is an overstatement. This Legion line-up is tough, but I could see the JSA taking them down, or the JLA teams. The Hellfire club would do well, too.

Agreed. I don't see this team as being any more powerful than the JSA (Flash and PG alone are more than most teams in the tournament can handle) or the Hellfire Club (where the arguements last round frequently cited Emma as an all-powerful telepath :) ).

The LSH would not "wipe the floor with the JLA" (especially the current JLA) and the comment about the "farm-team" was from "Brave & the Bold", which is Silver Age Pre-Crisis where I think everyone would agree DC was outrageously powerful...doesn't necessarily apply to current DC levels (the comment was meant more to just let folks know the LSH aren't unknown nobodies with a mini-series or such :) ).

I guess my point here is mainly that it was a bad draw for the X-Men. Don't penalize a team because they do well against one of the teams that was favoured to win this tournament. Besides, I think the X-folks are winning so it may be moot?

[Amai]

I like the X-Men best and if Kitty had been on the team no contest. But I think the L o SH is too tough for them to beat. :( I am putting my vote under Legion please.

[Rando]

I do find it amusng that the X-men with the aerial killing machine Colossus, and the team flattening Banshee and Cyclops, are winning against a group that many of the people that voted X-men are claiming has 3 members that are beyond this tournament's power level.

[malger]

Originally posted by Jawapimp
Something i just thought of. If cosmic boy, or any of the legion for that matter, have never fought wolverine, then who do will they know his whole skeleton is composed of a metal?

I think the metal claws he always brings out would be a dead giveaway.

[Ignatz_Mouse]

Actually, I have it at 31-26 LSH leading. A lot of Legion votes since DTM's last count.

[DTM]

Current Voting Totals:

X-Men #1 - 26 votes
LOSH #1 - 31 votes

Right on the money IM, thanks for the updates.

OK, again, I feel the two strengths of the LOSH team are Magnetic powers and Mental powers, and NO OTHER TEAM in this tournament is as familiar with BOTH forms, on a Vast Scale, than the XMEN. They have how many game plans for such characters, already set up, from threats like Magneto to the Pheonix, this XMEN team have seen and done it all when it comes to magnetic and mental abilities.

As for as Ultra Boy goes, his powers are Huge, but he can only use one at a time. Meaning, he tangles with Colossus, he FALLS. He gives himself Super Strength, he LOSES Invulnerability, ONE HIT from Peter and hes KOed. NO CONTEST. And he cant possibly switch back and forth in a matter of one second, since if he could he essentially has all of Supermans powers all the time.

As pointed out several times, Cosmic Boy and Saturn Girl have Amazing powers, but dont really have the Power Stunts of Magneto or Charles, which makes them more in tune with this tournament.

Keep in mind THIS team took on and did VERY WELL against the ENTIRE IMPERIAL GUARD, with Colossus going toe to toe for a while with Gladiator. Now this LOSH team is not even close to full strength, and the XMEN are only down Phoenix (using slightly enhanced Jean Grey powers) from that battle.

Again, I give all the Praise in the world to the LOSH, but this XMEN team, especially, takes it.

Come on all, lets get an X RALLY going! :)

[Q99]

As for as Ultra Boy goes, his powers are Huge, but he can only use one at a time. Meaning, he tangles with Colossus, he FALLS.

Yea, but there's a magnetic boy who's the one to deal with Colossus, and he could take out most of the other X-men with little problem. Colossus in particular isn't much of a threat since he has neither ranged attack nor flight, so he's not going to be a priority for Ultra Boy to deal with, Cyclops and Storm are, and his power are much better suited to dealing with them than Colossus.

[DTM]

Possibly, I just think as soon as the battle starts, Wolverine POPS into stealth and hunts his prey. His Stealthing abilities have even hid himself from high level telepaths in his world, I dont see why it wouldnt work here as well. Not to sound like a Wolverine fanboy, but this guy is TOUGH, and in a situation like this, Very cunning, sneaky and vicious.

The XMEN did very well against the Imperial Guard, I see taking this group of LOSH as well.

[DreadDormammu]

####, I missed my own nomination's battle. Just don't underestimate the coordination of this X-Men team. Under Cyclops, this group is the closest to a paramilitary unit of almost any superhero group ever.

X-Men #1 get my vote. :)

[DreadDormammu]

Originally posted by DTM
Possibly, I just think as soon as the battle starts, Wolverine POPS into stealth and hunts his prey. His Stealthing abilities have even hid himself from high level telepaths in his world, I dont see why it wouldnt work here as well. Not to sound like a Wolverine fan