JSA vs. Defenders

[NickFury15]

If these 2 teams fought, who do you think would win?

[JayThor]

JSA- they have many more members:

Dr. Fate and Hawkgirl takes out Dr. Strange

Sentinal/GL and Thunderbolt take out Silver Surfer

Flash and Sand take out Namor

Captain Marvel and Black Adam take out the Hulk

Dr. Midnite and Hawkman take out Nighthawk

Powergirl and Black Canary take out Valkyrie

Mr Terrific takes out Hellcat

There are plenty more JSA to take out the stragglers like Gargoyle, Powerman, and Hellstrom:

Wildcat
Atom Smasher
Iron Munroe
Ray
Black Condor
Hourman
Uncle Sam

[coad14]

depends on the line up. you would have to make it so they are equal power levels. you can't have the entire JSA roster, they would win due to swarming.

how about this team for the JSA vs defenders

capatin marvel vs hulk
flash vs iceman and black knight
mr. terrific vs beast
sentinal vs silver surfer
dr.fate vs dr.strange
power girl vs namor
hawkgirl vs valkrie
hawkman vs archangel


what do you think?

[JayThor]

Cap beats Hulk. Hulk can't keep up.
Flash vs 2? He still wins
Beast wins, though this one is close.
Surfer eeks out a win here
Fate beats Strange 50% of the time, Strange wins 50% Old Dr. Fate wins them 95%
Powergirl beats Namor, as long as it is out of water.
no way. I would have Star for help here like Iceman and BK. Then Valkyrie loses. Otherwise it is lopsided for Valkyrie. She is a goddess....

Hawkman beats Angel. He is a warrior with millinea of battles.
You left out the TBolt, which would swing any Marvel win to a DC one. He is very powerful.

[BigSoph]

Marvel fan writes response: Defenders win without a loss
DC Fan responds: JSA has their own comic, it is one of the best out there. JSA also has a MASSIVE amount of experience, having formed in 1941

The only two members who reprsent serious threats to the JSA are Hulk and Surfer

And Thunderbolt, Sentinel and Fate are more than a match for him

Hulk?

He would give the JSA a hard time, but remember, the JSA fought Ragnarok continuously for several years. I think they can handle an enraged powerhouse

[coad14]

not to familiar with tbolt and some others. i think the cap /hulk battle would be a good one. i can see it going either way depending on how they chose to fight. if hulk wants to be left alone to start, and for some reason shazam! pushes him, hulk will win. he ALWAYS wins when he wants to be left alone. it enrages him the most=making him stronger than Shazam can handle. if he just starts fighting, Shazam! could get the upperhand with his speed, but hulk is faster than he looks (not equal to Shazam!, but quick enough to surprise him)

i agree that hawkman would beat angel, but not archangel (metal wings) i would be using the new Dr.Fate, so the battle isn't lopsided. same as archangel. angel would lose extremely fast to hawkman. the metal wing version could last alot longer, but would far after beating hawkman.

flash is hard to match him up with. noone else is that fast for the defenders. we could drop him and add other JSA instead.

[chase_jyd]

There's a few ways this could go :

The JSA has the big advantage that they will use teamwork, and the vets do so seamlessly. A lot of the Defenders are not team players, which was part of the background behind the team : a bunch of normal solo heroes plus some X-Men teaming up.
On the other hand, the Defenders have some pretty heavy powershouses. If you break it down purely by one on one matches, and then whoever wins their matches can help others, then I might go Defenders. If you're going equal numbers, team vs. team, I'd go JSA.

It also makes a difference which Dr. Fate. Just with experience and confidence, I give Dr. Strange a slight edge on Hector, regardless of the power level. Kent Nelson, however, wins almost every time. If its Kent in the helmet, then I have to go with the JSA'ers, regardless of almost any other match-up.

Otherwise -
Surfer vs. Sentinel is a serious match of heavyweights with powers that can match one another for a long time. I eventually go with Surfer, but I think Alan gives him a better fith than almost any other DC hero.

Power Girl vs. Namor - above the surface, Power Girl. Namor can only win this one if he gets it underwater.

Hawkman vs. Angel - Hawkman. Even against archangel, his experience and skill with his weapons is just hard to match up with. Archangel turns it into an interesting fight. Any other version and Carter takes it, easy.

Hulk vs. Captain Marvel - At his best and most savage, Hulk. Through most of the Defenders era, Cap. At his best its hard to bet against the Hulk. Cap is faster, more skilled, etc., which gives him an edge in a lot of situations. If the Hulk loses it completely though, not many people can deal enough punishment to drop him.

Mr. Terrific vs. Beast - If its G.A. Terrific, I give it to Beast. Terry is the best at about everything within human standards. Beast is superhuman across the board - strength, agility, speed, endurance, durability, etc. And smart enough to make sure the physical advantage makes up the difference. Michael would be more difficult, since he uses more tech in the field, and has some range, but eventually I still give it to a very singed Beast.

Valkyrie beats Hawkgirl - Hawkgirl, either version, is good, but Valkyrie can match her for centuries of skill, and is much stronger and tougher. The wings don't make up the difference.

Flash is a tough one to match up. Moondragon might be able to stop him, any other match-up though and I give it to Jay, out of the Defenders still remaining.

Hellstrom might be able to handle the Thunderbolt on occasion. Its more powerful pound for pound, but relies on a couple of masters for guidance, neither of whom are really great at utilizing its potential. If its Johnny in control, I give it to Damon. If its Jakeem, I'll say the Thunderbolt, just because current day he's a lot more self-sufficient most of the time - get 'em Thuderbolt usually suffices.

I think either Dr. Mid-Nite could take Hellcat. Charles would have an easier time doing so, being, for the most part, the superior fighter, though Pieter is the better doctor when its all over.

[coad14]

Originally posted by chase_jyd

Hawkman vs. Angel - Hawkman. Even against archangel, his experience and skill with his weapons is just hard to match up with. Archangel turns it into an interesting fight. Any other version and Carter takes it, easy.



i totally agree that regular angel will get his arse handed to hi anytime, but archangel is a new story. hawkman could almost be outclassed in terms of raw power. archangel can reach mach 3 w/ these wings. i don't think that hawkman could keep up. hawkman will ALWAYS have the edge for hth skills, but to do that he has to get close. not something that is going to happen easily. warrens wings fire synaptic disrupting "feathers" from his wings. one scratch and you are paralyzed. also, his wings are razor sharp: get too close, and you could be missing an arm. not that the same can't be said about hawkman. he is totally willing to decapitate if that is what it takes, but i still see ARCHANGEL winning this fight. not ANGEL though.

the rest of your analaysis i like. looks very good. would very much like to see this fight happen.

[skeevo666]

Originally posted by chase_jyd
A lot of the Defenders are not team players, which was part of the background behind the team : a bunch of normal solo heroes plus some X-Men teaming up.
On the other hand, the Defenders have some pretty heavy powershouses.


There are two distinct eras to the Defenders: Original & New

Original had the heavy-hitters. Namor, Hulk, Surfer & Strange. They were duped into breaking up and starting with issue #125 it was re-named the "New" Defenders.

New had Valkyrie, Gargoyle & Beast continuing on; Valkyrie was tasked by Odin to mentor/instruct Moondragon, Beast called on Angel & Iceman for help with the team (esp. Warren's wealth) and more joined up along the way (Cloud, Andromeda, etc.)


Originally posted by chase_jyd
Archangel turns it into an interesting fight.

Unfortuantely Archangel was never a member of the Defenders, so unless you're doing a "What If" scenario he shouldn't be included in the calculations . . .

[JayThor]

I figured the Hawkman win with Angel. Archangel with the metal wings was never a member of the Defenders.

[JayThor]

Dr. Midnite beats Hellcat because he can Incapacitate a person without actually hurting them, usin pressure points. He also can fight in the complete darkness of his smoke cloud. Thunderbolt only loses if Hellstrom figures out to shut the vocals of Jakeem. Otherwise, Tbolt wins everytime.

The reason I chose Surfer over Alan (even though I like Alan better) is that Alan has a weakness to wood. Surfer can transform matter, so he could turn Alan's costume to wood, encase him in a coffin of wood, or fill his area with a cellulose cloud like Mr. Terrific did in Virtue and Vice. Any of these gives Surfer the edge. Surfer can take the punishment long enough to figure it out. The area that they fight in will be completely decimated.........

[Jackygobang]

I would have to be in the minority and say the Defenders take it...
But only if they had a few people

Dr. Strange and Fate-Hector still isn't as good as the good doctor, but ol' Kent would take him out.
Outcome-Dr. Strange takes it, but it's very hard fought

Captain Marvel vs. Hulk-Well, Hulk won in the DTM battle. I would say that Cap would give him a solid, but not overpowered punch, to see how big and bad Hulk is. This would be a very bad idea. I'd say Hulk, when at full rage, even outstrengths M'onel and Superman. His instincts would help him surprise even the wisdom of solomon.
Outcome-"HULK SMASH BIG CHIN MAN!"

Mr. Terrific vs. Beast-Crazy. Mr. T is, honestly, the smarter one, but Hank is obviously no slouch. In addition, Beast has sheer strength and speed. The t-spheres might be the trump here, but Beat will win about 51 out of 100 times.

Surfer vs. Alan Scot-Wow. Crazy. This would be going on long after everyone else is done. Surfer has raw strength i'm sure, since his power cosmic can manipulate physical strength, so he might be able to get in close to use it, but not bloody likely. Alan has much more energy reserves, and can create extremely complex constructs. Most powerful of all green lanterns vs. the power cosmic...
Outcome-THE POWER OF THE STARHEART!

Power Girl vs. Namor-They'd have about equal strength in the beginning, but Namor's would wane pretty quick. Unless Dr. Strange or Surfer can get out of thier battles(not bloody likely!) to either magically apparate water or do some trasnmutation, Power Girl takes it, but looks pretty slapped around.


The Hawks vs. Iceman and Angel-Crazy. Iceman nowadays could slap these guys around, but he was a defender pre-emma frost. This is pretty even, though, because of the sheer, untapped power. But the hawks would take it 85% of the time.
Outcome-A ####py superfriend and a wierd choice for the JL cartoon beat the ex-x-men.

Flash vs. Moondragon-Well, i'd assume MD is flying, so Flash would seem at a disadvantage, but he'd probably take down the wounded Beast while he's standing around, but once MD realizes the threat, she messes him up in the head.


Using this fairly limited roster(only know a few defenders..)
You would be left with a completely depleted Alan Scott, a slightly slapped up Power Girl, and two fairly fresh hawks, vs possibly beast(if flash doesn't take him out), a severely depleted Dr. Strange,Moondragon,.....

AND AN EXTREMELY MAD HULK!!!!

Flash can take out beat if he hasn't done so already, and probably Dr. Strange since he'll likely be too exhausted to float around. Flash tries to nail thousands of blows on Hulk, and succeeds.....pizzing him off to no end. Power Girl and the Hawks all team up and try to smash him with Maces and Fists, maybe slightly knocking him back, making him more angry. He takes out Hawkman with a sonic clap, tremor taps to take out Flash, roughs up the powerless old man with the funny costume, and is left with Power Girl and Hawkgirl. I'd say that's pretty over and done with, leaving Hulk vs....the rest of the JSA!!!!
(Did I mention Hawkgirl and Power Girl taking out moondragon?)

SAND!
STAR!
HOURMAN!
WILDCAT!
BLACK ADAM!!!!
THUNDERBOLT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Alright, off the bat, Sand takes the leadership role...and gets slapped across the state. Star full-power blastsHulk, singing hulk....HULK NO LIKE BEING SINGED! Sonic clap. Next. Wildcat?! Er....next. Two of the most powerful members....Hulk is now sufficeintly mad to take out basically a Captain Marvel clone. But all this time, the T-bolt is wreaking havoc on Hulk, making him even MADDER!!!!!!!


Alright, about now, the JLA would be showing up unless they're watching Batman and Wonder Woman in the broom vloset..:rolleyes: But IF Captain Marvel can withstand the fury of the thunderbolt, Hulk can. Hulk would not be tired at all, just mad. About now, the rest of the defenders show up...and all hell breaks loose.


eer......got a little ahead of myself...that's a story for another day.

[Q99]

I'm of the opinion the JSA would win. Teamwork means they'd cover for each other more. If Alan or Hector or maybe even Thunderbolt (most likely Alan, he can cause a fair amount of other damage without letting his guard down vs. Surfer) can mess up the other's opponent, then they can start really getting down to buisness.

[eshuroger]

In Heroclix terms.

Let's set up all the Defenders figures, and add R Archangel and U Moondragon.

R Archangel 37
E Beast 59
E Dr. Strange 71
E Hulk 117
E Iceman 36
U Moondragon 71
U Silver Surfer 173

Total: 564

All the JSA figures, and let's give them U Flash, but leave out V Hawkman (because we've got Carter Hall) and E Black Adam (because he's AE with U Shazam!).

R Black Canary 21
LE Carter Hall 54
E Dr. Fate 113
U Flash 101
E Hawkgirl 39
LE Hippolyta Trevor-Hall 50
U Shazam! 166

Total: 544

Pretty close points and an interesting battle. Defenders takes it by points, but I think JSA could win this one.

Once I have the Unleashed figures, I may have to try this out.

[EVIL CAP]

Captain Marvel is much better than Superman at remembering that besides being super strong he also has incredible super speed and the Wisdom of Solomon.Alen Scott can hang toe to toe with the Silver Surfer both characters are so powerful the battle is virtually inconclusive but Alen has some kind of a weakness that could eventually tip the odds in SS favor.It all hinges on weather he discovers it before the rest of the team is dropped or not.Mostl the advantage lies with the JSA its give or take in power character to character and not a huge advantage but teamwork pushes that slight advantage alot farther

[The Charlatan]

In comics, the JSA, they have more members (generally), better teamwork, and greater experience.

In clicks, using eshuroger's two lists, the Defenders. Shazam is the only serious threat, and both Dr Strange and Silver Surfer can blow him away from 10 range, while the JSA have little to no range themselves.