Marvel/DC Battles: TEAM Tournament Of Champions: Round 1, Match 6

[DTM]

As powerful and experienced as this premiere team of Alpha Flight was, it seems, for now, that the Avengers team was a bit moreso, and therefore it is them who advances to Round 2......again, FOR NOW. :)

For our next battle, we have another Marvel vs Marvel, Good vs. Evil, in a battle I dont believe has EVER been done before, and one Im pretty excited about. Allow me to present:


MASTERS OF EVIL #1 VS. DEFENDERS


Masters of Evil #1 – Baron Zemo, Goliath, Wrecker, Moonstone, Enchantress, Yellowjacket

Defenders – Dr. Strange, Namor, Beast, Black Knight, Valkyrie, Hellcat


As always, same rules apply, no time to prepare, POOFed from where ever they were, with only what they routinely carry on them, to fight in a Large area til one stands and one falls. YOU decide Who.

Randomly Chosen Area:


Urban Environment - Some medium sized buildings, paved roads, possibly a few cars/dumpsters, etc.


Thanks all, and enjoy.

And REMEMBER, if youre not sure who someone is here, ASK. Theres PLENTY of people here who can tell you most anything youd like to know. Thanks again.


TEAM TOURNAMENT OF CHAMPIONS


ROUND 1

Jusitce League #1 VS. Justice League #3: Justice League #3
(Steel, Metamorpho, Firestorm, Hawkgirl, Black Canary, Rocket Red)

Titans VS. JSA: JSA
(Flash I, Power Girl, Hawkman, Mr. Terrific, Starman (Jack), Atom Smasher)

Marauders VS. Hellfire Club: Hellfire Club
(Sebastian Shaw, Emma Frost, Harry Leland, Donald Pierce, Trevor Fitzroy, Shinobi Shaw, Frederick Von Roehm)

X-Men #1 VS. Legion Of Super-Heroes #1: X-Men #1
(Banshee, Colossus, Cyclops, Nightcrawler, Storm, Wolverine)

Alpha Flight VS. Avengers #2: Avengers #2
(Wonder Man, Warbird, Hawkeye, Wasp, Crystal, Spider-Man)

[coad14]

i think that the masters of evil will win.

Enchantress is a more powerful sorcerer than Strange.
Wrecker will take on Namor
Goliath will take down the rest.
the rest of the MoE will simply be helping the others




oh yeah..........first post!

[DTM]

You think Enchantress is a more powerful Sorcerrer than Strange? I thought Stephen was in Lokis range, higher than Enchantress, personally.

[coad14]

possible. i believe that she is more powerful. maybe someone with expert knowledge could help?


and even if she isn't as strong, there are more teamates to help her out

[Rando]

Enchantress is defeninently not more powerful than Dr.Strange, he is literaly the sorcerer supreme on Earth, this is not just some talk he is the best wizard you can expect to deal with on Earth. Strange rumbles with magical entities that inhabit alternate dimensions. I can see Enchantress being able to exert all of her efforts to keep Stephen from demolishing her team, but that is a battle Dr.Strange should win given time.

Despite that I'm going to vote Masters of Evil for now, they just have too many tough guys, while Namor is the biggest brick in here, the masters have an intangible strong girl (Moonstone), plus Goliath is rougher than Valkyrie, and Wrecker is mouch tougher than Beast. Zemo would lose to Black Knight, but Yellowjacket can hassle Hellcat and Black Knight both at the same time. The presence of three tough strength style characters and an effetive way to contain Dr.Strange, even if only for a while, swings this for me, but I might change my mind as the thread plays out.

[Prof. Aragorn]

Enchantress is an Asgardian goddess that is capable of many magical things--Dr. Strange is Sorcerer Supreme of Earth and I believe even of the Earth Dimension. I would have to say the Defenders, because with Namor's strength and agility, Dr. Strange's Eye of Agamatto and Hand of the vshanti, Beast's intellect, and the feudal fighting skills of the Valkyrie and Black Knight.

[DarthDoom]

BAH>>DOOM will also cast his vote on the masters of evil even though DOOM would crush them all WAH HA HA HA:laugh:

[DTM]

Oh, I do think Enchantress is going to be KEY when battling this team, since while I dont believe her to be more powerful, shes still powerful enough to help offset the MAGIC advantage here.

I think Dr Strange would take Enchantress in the end, but be pretty tired afterwards.

Also, dont forget about Valkyrie in terms of raw fighting power. An EXPERTLY trained warrior, with very nice superhuman stats to match, and a magic sword.

Personally, im leaning alittle more towards MOE here, but DONT count this Defenders team, even without Hulk and Surfer, out on Power.

Namor vs Goliath
Valkyrie vs Wrecker
Dr. Strange vs Enchantress
Hellcat vs Yellowjacket
Beast and Black Knight vs Moonstone and Baron Zemo

All around, some very close matches for one very close MATCH UP here, I think.

[Manchine]

Defiantly Enchantress is not more powerful then Strange. Now Loki is more powerful then Strange. Enchantress is not a pushover either! Docter Strange will have a Hard time dealing with her! By the time Strange is done its gonna be to late for The Defenders.


Round one
Dr. Strange Vs Enchantress Fight lasts until Round 2.

Namor Vs Goliath Goliath wins here

Beast Vs Moonstone Beast Dodges until Round 2

Black Knight Vs Baron Zemo Zemo beats Black Knight

Valkyrie Vs Wrecker Valkyrie Beats on Wrecker

Hellcat Vs Yellowjacket Yellowjacket takes down Hellcat

Round 2
Dr. Strange Vs Enchantress Docter Strange finally Beats Enchantress

Goliath and Baron Zemo Vs Valkyrie Valkyrie finally Falls.

Yellowjacket and Moonstone Vs Beast Beast Falls to the Combined women!

Round 3
Dr. Strange Vs Goliath, Yellowjacket, Moonstone, and Baron Zemo Yellowjacket actually gets the Gold here, taking down the last of the Defenders.

[Rando]

Something I'd like clarification on is which Black Knight this is. If this is theBlack Knight from Hero's for Hire (which is his current incarnation) than he is far more dangerous than he was at the beginning of his career, even if this one is the one with the energy sword that disrupted his target's nervous system he is a lot more threatneing than when he just ha da magic sword (since the nerve disruptor could be used quite effectively against Goliath and Wrecker). I'd also like to know if he has his flying horse.

[proditor]

I looked at this and initially thought "Now this is a blowout". Then I looked at it again and seriously, pound for pound, this may be the closest match yet. I agree with most fo the pairings that Manchine came up with, but I get different results. I could see Namor and Goliath going easily to round two. Round one, Goliath bashes the arrogant Atlantean. Round two, fish feet yells "IMPERIUS REX!!!" and starts swinging Goliath around like a club. A very big club. Namor is just one of those guys that doesn't fold easily. And since this is an "earlier" incarnation, he's gonna be all full of erm..stuff and vinegar. (You old timers probably know the right quote). I'm also not sure about Zemo taking Black Knight that quickly, but I could see it I guess. Now I can't see Yellowjacket taking Hellcat at all. Patsy was a monster and much more agile than YJ. So if those even last a "round" further, you then have strange free at the beginning of the next one to start KOing all of the twisted pairings and I think that is what is going to make the difference here.

My vote: Defenders after a very very hard fight

[Manchine]

The thing is Zemo is a great tactician! He will be yelling out commands much like Captain America. I would put Zemo just below Captain America in the realms of tactics.

Zemo is an expert swordsmen also. Not as good as Black Knight but still good. The Thing is Zemo has his Adhesive X which can tie up Black Knight pretty easily!

Namor is actually the Turning Point. If this were by water the defenders would easily win.

Valkyrie Vs Wrecker fight would be hard fought for Valkyrie she wouldnt be that much use after this fight!

I dont see anyone hitting Yellowjacket except for Doc Strange and Beast! Hellcat is not agile enough.

Moonstone and Beast Fight would probable be the best! Each of them Dodging until Moonstone actually lands a hit on Beast!

[UsagiYojimbo]

I need powers for both teams so I can choose one if anybody can help

[Nighthawk]

Wow, this is so close, though initially I thought MOE.

Wrecker and Valkyrie. The crowbar versus the Dragonfang. I have to go Valkyrie here, she is skilled where Wrecker just swings and relies on brute strength.

Zemo and Black Knight. So close, I dont even want to call it. BK is a better swordsman than Zemo, so even if Zemo wins, he can't be that effective as a leader since his hands will be full.

Namor versus Goliath. Namor can fly, so he can take the fight to Goliath, not just smack his feet. I have to give this to Namor, for heaven's sake, he has fought all the Avengers by himself and all the FF (not at the same time).

Yellow jacket and Hellcat. A wash, with neither being able to hit the other. This is the rookie-ish YJ.

Beast and Moonstone. Another close one, Moony cant get under BEast's skin.

Dr Strange vs Enchantress. Dr. Strange


Have to vote Defenders

[dj_sha]

I'm convinced by these arguments. Masters of Evil win this one.

[Aberrant]

The defenders pull this one out in the end, but just barely. Doc Strange is /the man/, and Namor is one dude you do NOT want to cross.

[thedon09]

I'm voting Defenders. Doc Strange, Valkyrie, and Namor are the deciding factors in this one.

[banshee12377]

I'll vote for the Defenders

[Cowboy21]

Either way you look at it, the Evils will win. they've got the better attackers, and will knock out the defenders!! Anyone dissagree?:squareeye

[Cowboy21]

The defenders wont be able to pull it out, the game will be over before its even started.:squareeye

[silverstein]

This is a tough one I love both the Defenders and the masters of evil. I think the defenders will come away with this one in the end. Somehow good always prevails. O wait I forgot there is no good or evil, sorry Uatu.

[Macho Man]

Originally posted by DarthDoom
BAH>>DOOM will also cast his vote on the masters of evil even though DOOM would crush them all WAH HA HA HA:laugh: LOL I like this guy

[BAKID]

I'm not sure of the matchups on this one...

Considering their personal history, why wouldn't Valkyrie wail on Enchantress first, to give Strange free reign to take out the rest of the MOE. That seems the most tactically sound thing to do, not just split 1 on 1 in all the matches.

Still, the Enchantress isn't just about magic, her body has the strength and durability of a standard Asgardian female. That would seem to swing things to the MOE. However, how often have you actually seen Dr. Strange get hit by someone's fists? (outside of a clix battle)

Argh, so hard to decide....

I have to give it to the MOE, due to the urban environment, which gives their bruisers stuff to throw around or swing, pushing them over the edge. I hate voting for the bad guys though, it makes me feel dirty.

[Macho Man]

Dispite dooms convincing arguement, I will say add one more for the defenders. Namor is in no way a pushover he has taken the fantastic 4 and Strange is the best at what he does.

[DTM]

Current Voting Totals:

Defenders - 8 votes
Masters Of Evil #1 - 7 votes

[CaptainMarvel]

I have to say the defenders. I think Starnge is the X factor in this fight.

[shinigami0079]

masters of evil take this one

most matchups favor them, lets not forget the fact that enchantress could possibly mind control someone or possibly seduce someone like namor to give them a edge that should give them a definite edge in this fight

[Silver Ghost]

MoE take this one - good match up though!

[Maniac_nmt]

Dr. Strange is sorcer supreme, while Enchantress can hold her own, she can't take on the good Dr. (it's debatable who's more powerful between loki and Strange, Strange is used to fighting beings more powerful then Loki, while Loki doesn't face that many sorcerous threats).

he's kind of a linchpin for the defender team in this matchup, if strange goes down, the Defenders are fubar, if strange keeps on ticking they're going to be rough.

I don't know about the mind controlling of Namor, he's a very strong willed person. Enchantress' enchating stuff doesn't work as well vs people that strong willed (heck, even IronMan doesn't just crumple up and kiss her feet, and he's a sucker for pretty faces). I'm not sure she could ring in Namor. Beast, sure, but not Namor.

[Maniac_nmt]

oh, and no vote

[malreux]

Hmmm, these teams do seem awefully well matched, but I think Moonstone would go for one of the heavier players first (Namor maybe) she is used to taking on folks like the hulk and likes to fight people who she is smarter than (which is lots of folks in the marvel U, but Hank Mccoy ain't one of em) I would vote MOE to win this at this point, but remain easily swayable

[GreatArelius1]

Masters of Evil

[supermangl1]

I'm gonna go with the Defenders on this one, it's close, but I say Strange and Namor are just so tough to stop. If one of the other defenders is left standing toward the end the Defenders definatly have it, and I say this would happen slightly more the 50%. So I give it to the Defenders.

my vote = Defenders

(I'm still sad LOSH lost their match)

[BigSoph]

Masters of Evil #1 – Baron Zemo, Goliath, Wrecker, Moonstone, Enchantress, Yellowjacket

Defenders – Dr. Strange, Namor, Beast, Black Knight, Valkyrie, Hellcat

So let me see...

A guy who glued a mask to his head and sounds like a fruity alcoholic drink, a second string Henry Pym (all the size, none of the brains), a guy who smashes houses, a glow in the dark barbie, a lovesick Norse demi-goddess and another Henry Pym wannabe

vs.

The best sorceror on Earth (Marvel universe only, fate would kick his ###), a super strength guy with PMS (?!?), one of Marve;'s coolest characters, one of their lamest, a norse female warrior and a Catwoman ripoff

I am gonna have to go with the Defenders on this one (Mainly because Beast RULEZ!)

[BigSoph]

Originally posted by DTM


X-Men #1 VS. Legion Of Super-Heroes #1: X-Men #1
(Banshee, Colossus, Cyclops, Nightcrawler, Storm, Wolverine)



HEY!

From Match 5's first post:
Another Great and Long standing battle, but in the end the Legion Of Super Heroes #1 defeated the XMen #1

What is this? The Democratic Party?: Keep recounting until we win?

[malreux]

Then again, what can Hellcat do these days? I know Thunderbolts brought her back from Hell (makes it funny that she is basically fighting them hey?) but have no idea what she is like powerwise, I know she was developing new ones around when she died.

[DOOMSTRIKER]

MoE for me, gotta love the baron..(not as much as Doom of course, but still good)

[DTM]

Originally posted by BigSoph
HEY!

From Match 5's first post:
Another Great and Long standing battle, but in the end the Legion Of Super Heroes #1 defeated the XMen #1

What is this? The Democratic Party?: Keep recounting until we win?

Sorry BS, but like all the Round 1 battles, that was still open to further votes, and the XMEN did, at last count, come back to win.

[DTM]

Current Voting Totals:

Defenders - 11 votes
Masters Of Evil #1 - 12 votes

[zebulon21]

defenders

[Mastermind]

I, too, go with the MoE on this one.

[CyberVenom]

Round 1:
Dr. Strange and Enchantress fight to a standstill.
Namor takes down Zemo.
Goliath takes down Beast.
Black Knight takes down Moonstone.
Valkyrie takes down Wrecker.
Yellowjacket takes down Hellcat.

Round 2:
Dr. Strange starts to get the upperhand on Enchantress.
Namor takes down Goliath.
Black Knight and Valkyrie take down Yellowjacket.

Round 3:
Dr. Strange, Namor, Black Knight, and Valkyrie gang jump Enchantress, and she's down for the count.

Winners: Defenders

[Iceman425]

Power Breakdown for some characters please??.....

Yellowjacket (which Yellowjacket and with what powers), Wrecker, and Hellcat.

Thanks.

[Smurf Torch]

Masters of Evil for the win

[Manchine]

Originally posted by Iceman425
Power Breakdown for some characters please??.....

Yellowjacket (which Yellowjacket and with what powers), Wrecker, and Hellcat.

Thanks.

YellowJacket (Bad Girl Wasp)

Wrecker (Takes on Thor in his early career. Has an enchanted crowbar)

Hellcat (Blackcat without PC and with Claws)

[DTM]

Im going for MOE I think.

I see the MOE to be more powerful than the Defenders overall, and I also see Baron Zemos leadership to be a key role here, since Dr Strange isnt nearly the tactical leader Zemo is. Namor maybe close, but his temper will get the best of him and hell go charging into battle before plans are made, I think.

With superior power and superior leadership, I give this one to the Masters Of Evil.

Current Voting Totals:

Defenders - 13 votes
Masters Of Evil #1 - 15 votes

[DreadDormammu]

Enchantress is the only thing stopping Strange from defeating them all and all it would take is Beast or Black Knight or Valkyrie attacking her while she is trying to stop Strange for the whole house of cards to come tumbling down for the Masters of Evil.

I will vote Defenders.

[Rando]

I'm going to retract my MoE vote DTM, I don't think my information on Black knight and Valkyrie is accuratte.

[Gorrack]

I have to vote on the MoE here. Very close match here. I HATE voting against Beast too! IM SORRY! The leadership of Zemo is huge. As said before, he is arguably 2nd best leadership wise behind Cap, and I'd say Cyclops ranks up their too though.

[Manchine]

That would be interesting! Who is more of the leader type. Cyclops or Zemo?

[Maniac_nmt]

hmmm...after thinking about it, I'm going to toss in with the Defenders. Dr. Strange is just heavy hitter enough to swing it in favor of the Defenders. Plus, I'm sure Namor can go round for round with either or both of the MOE beatsticks and still come out on top (they're just not very good at what they do, if they had any skills they could tackle namor, but just raw strength/durability won't mean diddly vs the lord of the seas).

[DreadDormammu]

Haha, I just love all this "leadership of Zemo" stuff. I am sorry, but Zemo is an also-ran. He sucks. He is one of those old school villains whose plans never succeeded on any level.

[Laenan]

MoE take it.

[Mr_Clicky]

I'll vote Defenders (since I nominated them). Which ties it up at 16 - 16 if I'm not mistaken.

[GoldenAge]

Defenders

[Gentlegamer]

Defenders

[Iceman425]

I think Moonstone would be more of a factor here than most people are giving her credit for. Still thinking on my vote....

Anyone care to cast an arguement that will sway my vote??

I'm on the fence and leaning MoE...

[DTM]

Current Voting Totals:

Defenders - 18 votes
Masters Of Evil #1 - 16 votes

Defenders have taken the lead.

As for Dr. Strange beating the entire MOE team himself, Im sorry, but I seriously dont think Strange is going to summon up a Demon from Hades to eat them, or banish the MOE to the Netherworlds, or turn them all into horny toads. Magic Users are Powerful, and unpredictable, granted, but they are not Gods. Saying Dr. Strange can take on an ENTIRE TEAM, especially THIS powerful team, all by himself, is saying hes too powerful for this contest. I think hes great, dont get me wrong, but hes still Human, with a normal human level durability. Meaning a shot from nearly anyone on the MOE team will KO him, and this battle will have TONS of collateral fire all around him. I like Dr. Strange as much as the next guy, but I dont see him ROUTINELY, or even close, in the comics, taking out a Masters Of Evil sized team in a matter of minutes. And hes going to have even less time than that to do so here.

[Namor]

Defenders.

[Manchine]

Originally posted by DreadDormammu
Haha, I just love all this "leadership of Zemo" stuff. I am sorry, but Zemo is an also-ran. He sucks. He is one of those old school villains whose plans never succeeded on any level.

All villians lose. Zemo is one of the greatest planmakers in the Marvel Universe!

I still havent seen one thing that gives the Defenders a shot. Namor being strong willed and Doc Strange being magic guy. Ok your point.

Enchantress can effect any man Except maybe Doc Strange! Even Captain America has been brought to a stand still becuase of Enchantress's Charm and Magic!

Wrecker and Goliath have both taken on Thor!

Moonstone Phases, fires energy beams, and has Spiderman level Strength/enduarnce.

[Silver Lantern]

Defenders

[Namor]

Originally posted by Manchine

I still havent seen one thing that gives the Defenders a shot. Namor being strong willed and Doc Strange being magic guy. Ok your point.


Doctor Strange isnt just a "magic guy", your talking about someone who takes on the likes of Nightmare, Dormammu, and Baron Mordo to name a few. Any of which could beat Enchantress in a fight. This is how I see it going down.

1. Valkyrie and Enchantress going at it, I see Enchantress beating her down in the end, but not without taking some punishment.

2. Beast vs. Yellowjacket, I actually see Beast winning here. His Intellect, Strength and Agility are too much of a match.

3. I see Hellcat tieing up Wrecker for a while but eventually losing to him.

4. Black Knight would OWN Baron Zemo, well maybe not OWN but defintly beat him

5. And then good ol' Namor vs. Goliath. I see Namor winning but with pretty much nothing left, would be different if the setting had some water. So pretty much a tie.

6. Dr. Strange beats Moonstone

So now you got.

Enchantress and Wrecker

vs

Doc, Beast, Black Night

After a tough battle I think the Defenders would come out on top maybe with just Strange left standing. A very good fight. At the start of writing this I thought that the Defenders would demolish the MoE, but after giving in some thought the MoE would put up a #### good fight. Maybe winning 25-40% of the time. But still I think the Defenders would win most of the time.

[Iceman425]

Is Zemo a great Tactical Field Leader, or a creator of evil plots. These are entirely different things.

Many leaders show qualities in both areas, but I don't see Zemo in the league of other great field generals that would actually give their teams a boost (Cyke, Cap, Kang if he were in it...).

Zemo (from what I have seen) is a planner. Very diabolical (much like the Lex Luthor of Marvel) and he has ways to make others pay. He doesn't usually do the dirty work.

However, I did not get a chance to read much of the Thunderbolt's and I know he was leading that team. Was there character developement that occured in which he got his metal in the field was tested? I did read enough of it to know that he was having problems keeping his team together at times, and couldn't truly control all the in-fighting.

I don't think that Baron Zemo is a great field leader, nor do I think that his being on the field gives the MoE the edge...
any rebuttals?

I am still undecided in my vote, but now leaning towards the Defenders.

[Namor]

Another reason I think that the MoE would lose is because they are villans. I know youre thinking "why the hell does that matter". Here is an example, say Goliath went to punch a unaware Dr. Strange and Namor was right there, we would all agree that Namor would jump in front and take the blow even if it caused him great harm. Now reverse roles do you think Enchantress would take a blow for Zemo? I Dont think so. Thats the reason why all villian teams lose they show no care for there fellow teammates (if you can even call them that) and they are very poor at following orders from other villans. So yeah Zemo is a great leader, but if he dosent got good followers then its not gonna mean much in the end. I guess where im getting at is that the Defenders would be way more fluid and organized than the Moe.

[Namor]

Originally posted by Iceman425
Is Zemo a great Tactical Field Leader, or a creator of evil plots. These are entirely different things.

Many leaders show qualities in both areas, but I don't see Zemo in the league of other great field generals that would actually give their teams a boost (Cyke, Cap, Kang if he were in it...).

Zemo (from what I have seen) is a planner. Very diabolical (much like the Lex Luthor of Marvel) and he has ways to make others pay. He doesn't usually do the dirty work.

However, I did not get a chance to read much of the Thunderbolt's and I know he was leading that team. Was there character developement that occured in which he got his metal in the field was tested? I did read enough of it to know that he was having problems keeping his team together at times, and couldn't truly control all the in-fighting.

I don't think that Baron Zemo is a great field leader, nor do I think that his being on the field gives the MoE the edge...
any rebuttals?

I am still undecided in my vote, but now leaning towards the Defenders.

He is a planner. The difference between him and say Captain America or Cyclops, is that they are in the battle with there teammates mixing it up, watching each others backs and leading there team to victory. Where as Zemo is usally in the back using his "teammates" as pawns to get what he wants. And thats the reason he would lose here.

[Manchine]

Originally posted by Namor
Doctor Strange isnt just a "magic guy", your talking about someone who takes on the likes of Nightmare, Dormammu, and Baron Mordo to name a few. Any of which could beat Enchantress in a fight. This is how I see it going down.

1. Valkyrie and Enchantress going at it, I see Enchantress beating her down in the end, but not without taking some punishment.

2. Beast vs. Yellowjacket, I actually see Beast winning here. His Intellect, Strength and Agility are too much of a match.

3. I see Hellcat tieing up Wrecker for a while but eventually losing to him.

4. Black Knight would OWN Baron Zemo, well maybe not OWN but defintly beat him

5. And then good ol' Namor vs. Goliath. I see Namor winning but with pretty much nothing left, would be different if the setting had some water. So pretty much a tie.

6. Dr. Strange beats Moonstone

So now you got.

Enchantress and Wrecker

vs

Doc, Beast, Black Night

After a tough battle I think the Defenders would come out on top maybe with just Strange left standing. A very good fight. At the start of writing this I thought that the Defenders would demolish the MoE, but after giving in some thought the MoE would put up a #### good fight. Maybe winning 25-40% of the time. But still I think the Defenders would win most of the time.

Zemo Being the great Tactitian wouldnt let that happen. He is a great field commander! Defenders dont really stand a chance. The only real fighter they have is Namor. Everyone else is just outclassed. Magic they have the superity on.

Goliath would Beat down Namor. There is no way Zemo would lose to Black Knight. He has way to many tricks up his sleeve!

The bull of there villians they should lose doesnt even hold water!

This is a really obvious one! Defenders lose!

[Rando]

actually, In an issue of "The Order" story line Namor takes out Giant Man (who is essentially just Goliath only a good guy) by throwing Cap's shield into his face, I don't think giant Man had been touched before that.

I see no reason to presume that Zemo can beat Black Knight, even his most current incarnation is just a skilled combatant, even if we assume that they have equal skill levels (and considering that Dane has beaten super human fighters before I think that is quite genreous) than Dane still has the advantage in a magic or energy based weapon (depending on which Black Knight version this is) to Zemo's mundane weapon.

The Defenders definently have a magical advantage. For one thing Black Knight, and Valkyrie have various magical means of attack and defense (this becomes more and more true for Black Knight the later in his career this is), and furthermore Dr.Strange is almost certainly a superior wizard. For one thing the title "Sorcerer Supreme" essentialy mandates that he be the best sorcerer in Earth's dimension. Furthermore there is a list of things that Strange can do that Enchantress can't inculding being able to to travel in astral form and being able to teleport people anywhere in the universe without first knowing their location (which we know Enchantress can't do since she needed a ride home from Molecule Man in Secret Wars) I see no reason to presume that Enchantress is better in the specfic area of magical combat than Strange, especially since Enchantress fights primarily non-wizards, whereas Strange fights entities whose very being is magical in nature like Nightmare and Dormammu. This of course disreagrds the magical artifacts that Strange wears, as opposed to the lack thereof for the Enchantress.

Zemo is probably the best field commander in the area, but his team is a little lacking in cohesion, this is especially true of Wrecker (who is really stupid and egotistical) and Moonstone (who, when she was a Master of Evil, had deep feelings of inferiority that manifested themselves by her trying to "one up" her teammates).

[Manchine]

Giant Man has been hit by thor and got back up. This Giantman is completely different then the other one.

Black Knight sorry he would jsut lose to Zemo. There is no if and or buts about it.

If you want to go Magical Defense then Wrecker has that taken care of. His Crowbar is pretty much the same thing as Black Knights old sword. Which he doesnt use anymore. Same thing with the sword of light. He is back to the normal sword. Which we see in Avengers now!

Sorry Defenders still lose very badly. This is a really lopsided battle.



I see why some people quit this. This is one of the obvious ones. Yet, people still argue!

[DTM]

Originally posted by Rando
actually, In an issue of "The Order" story line Namor takes out Giant Man (who is essentially just Goliath only a good guy) by throwing Cap's shield into his face, I don't think giant Man had been touched before that.

I see no reason to presume that Zemo can beat Black Knight, even his most current incarnation is just a skilled combatant, even if we assume that they have equal skill levels (and considering that Dane has beaten super human fighters before I think that is quite genreous) than Dane still has the advantage in a magic or energy based weapon (depending on which Black Knight version this is) to Zemo's mundane weapon.

The Defenders definently have a magical advantage. For one thing Black Knight, and Valkyrie have various magical means of attack and defense (this becomes more and more true for Black Knight the later in his career this is), and furthermore Dr.Strange is almost certainly a superior wizard. For one thing the title "Sorcerer Supreme" essentialy mandates that he be the best sorcerer in Earth's dimension. Furthermore there is a list of things that Strange can do that Enchantress can't inculding being able to to travel in astral form and being able to teleport people anywhere in the universe without first knowing their location (which we know Enchantress can't do since she needed a ride home from Molecule Man in Secret Wars) I see no reason to presume that Enchantress is better in the specfic area of magical combat than Strange, especially since Enchantress fights primarily non-wizards, whereas Strange fights entities whose very being is magical in nature like Nightmare and Dormammu. This of course disreagrds the magical artifacts that Strange wears, as opposed to the lack thereof for the Enchantress.

Zemo is probably the best field commander in the area, but his team is a little lacking in cohesion, this is especially true of Wrecker (who is really stupid and egotistical) and Moonstone (who, when she was a Master of Evil, had deep feelings of inferiority that manifested themselves by her trying to "one up" her teammates).

Personally, I feel Goliath is stronger than Giant Man. Goliath has CLass 100 Strength, and I believe Giant Man, maxed out around Class 75. Plus, Goliath is a bruiser, Giant Man is a scientist, big mental difference there as well.

As for Baron Zemo vs Black Knight, Im certainly not going to say BZ can beat BK in a sword fight, BUT doesnt this Zemo have Adhensive X? One shot from this on BK, and hed STUCK, but good.

If Wrecker can battle Thor for a while, and lose I grant you, he can battle Valkyrie and WIN.

Moonstone should beat Beast, with superior strength, ranged attacks, flight, etc.

Besides the Dr Strange beats them all by himself arguments, Im having a tough time finding a way for the Defenders to win here.

Current Voting Totals:

Defenders - 20 votes
Masters Of Evil #1 - 16 votes

[DareDevil-fan]

Defenders for the win.

[Normandy]

MoE