What do you think of Jud Winick?

[4AD_Punk]

As it pertains to comic book writing.

I am enjoying Outsiders, although some fans detest it. In fact, I think #9 was really good and eagerly anticipate reading #10 later today.

However, the occult and demon theme was fine for one title, but carrying it over to Green Arrow?

I was severely disappointed and annoyed with the last issue of Green Arrow. I was really liking the story where it created the Riddler as a formidable opponent to the Queens. However, the last issue soured things for me: revealing that the Riddler was a pawn in a game to release demons and other occult forces upon Star City.

Demons and the occult: it's starting to get drab.

However, I have not read Caper.

[rouge2]

I've just never liked his writing style. He seems all about Flash over Substance which, admittedly can be good in the short term, but doesn't carry a series for the long haul. I just find him flat. Sometimes the dialogue gets punchy, but mostly it just doesn't fly. I dropped Green Arrow when he came on board. What he's done to Black Lightning since, is a complete shame. I skimmed Graduation Day and it was horrible (leading me to not try the two resultant books, Outsiders or Teen Titans in protest).

He's had his chance and I'm wary of giving him yet another one. Especially when my entertainment dollar is getting stretched thin as it is. If his name's on the cover, I'll probably give it a pass.

[Croaker]

I'm not reading GA right now, but I am reading Outsiders and both my wife and I are loving it. I really like seeing some brand new characters starting to get fleshed out, as well as some old favorites. And its really nice to see NW in a leadership role, again. On the occult side, I hope that it doesn't become a constant theme in the Outsiders, every once in a while is enough for a team book like this. Overall, I'm liking the writing.

[Col. Orange]

Exiles wasn't bad. Just wasn't great or even special, apart from Mimic taking out gladiator Capt. America on Skrull earth.

Barry Ween: Boy Genius was fantastic. Hillarious really. Go, read it.

[4AD_Punk]

Originally posted by Croaker
On the occult side, I hope that it doesn't become a constant theme in the Outsiders, every once in a while is enough for a team book like this.

Although the theme is prevalent right now, I don't think it is going to be habitual.

Check this out:

Cover and teaser for Outsiders #13 (http://www.dccomics.com/comics/dc_display.html?cm_dc_itemCode=outs13&month=June)

[4AD_Punk]

Originally posted by rouge2
What he's done to Black Lightning since, is a complete shame.

Okay, I'm ignorant here because admittedly I've only been reading and collecting comics for a couple of months.

I'm liking Black Lightning's appearance in the recent Outsiders story.

I know the costume has been changed, but what has Winick done with the character that is upsetting to longtime fans and readers of Black Lightning?

[rouge2]

Originally posted by 4AD_Punk
I know the costume has been changed, but what has Winick done with the character that is upsetting to longtime fans and readers of Black Lightning?

In a recent Green Arrow he had BL kill a guy in cold blood revenge-style for what happened to his niece. He did this expressly against the wishes of BL creator Tony Isabella, after promising him that he'd do right by his character (Also giving BL an illegitimate daughter was something Isabella objected to on the grounds of Lightning's beliefs). Now, DC owns Black Lightning currently, not Isabella, so Winnick isn't bound by Tony's views, but a lot of people still feel it was pretty underhanded.

[Gacy's Clown]

Wasn't he on The Real World: San Fransisco?

[rouge2]

Originally posted by Gacy's Clown
Wasn't he on The Real World: San Fransisco?

Indeed he was (never saw it myself though).

[curr0001]

I am quite enjoying Outsiders and Green Arrow.. Isn't he going to be doing Batman soon?

Outsiders is a very fun read. Captain Maver Junoir! How can you beat that? :)

[Croaker]

Originally posted by 4AD_Punk
Although the theme is prevalent right now, I don't think it is going to be habitual.

Check this out:

Cover and teaser for Outsiders #13 (http://www.dccomics.com/comics/dc_display.html?cm_dc_itemCode=outs13&month=June)

That looks great. Something else to look forward to in what is right now one of my favorite titles. Thanks for the link.

[Ignatz_Mouse]

Judd Winick was also a student at University of Michigan when I was there, and did the comic strip in the school paper. It was pretty good, kinda Bloom Countyesque.

[EVIL CAP]

Ive been enjoying Outsiders so far Nightwing and Jade are good draws while the other characters can be flushed out as it goes.The storyline has a good hardcore edge to it without reaching the level of stupidity comics like x-men have fallen to.I may not have liked it as much as some of the better books like Teen Titans or JSA but its got a place on my list and ive been picking it up pretty consistantly.

It may be disheartening to BL fans to have him do what he did but it has made a good story for him [technically crossing over effects from from 3 different comics without being gratuitous] and it could be worse he could kill all his former friends and try destroy the universe or even WORSE he could become his superfriends version :noid:

[4AD_Punk]

Originally posted by rouge2
In a recent Green Arrow he had BL kill a guy in cold blood revenge-style for what happened to his niece. He did this expressly against the wishes of BL creator Tony Isabella, after promising him that he'd do right by his character (Also giving BL an illegitimate daughter was something Isabella objected to on the grounds of Lightning's beliefs). Now, DC owns Black Lightning currently, not Isabella, so Winnick isn't bound by Tony's views, but a lot of people still feel it was pretty underhanded.

Wow. Thanks for the info; clears some confusion I had concerning a conversation Black Lightning has with President Ross in the latest issue of Outsiders.

Yeah, it does seem underhanded. In addition, kind of selfish: Winick ignoring Tony Isabella to integrate Black Lightning into his Green Arrow and Outsiders stores. However, as a writer there is always ample room in comics to fix things...I think.

Although I don't know much about Black Lightning, Winick's characterization of him seems to be pretty loyal: he is an adamant hero that has solid morality and values. He is also attempting to furiously prevent his daughter Thunder from becoming a hero because he doesn't want her to live that kind of lifestyle: in the last issue of Outsiders he mentions something along the lines that being a super hero changes a person because they experience and encounter the base, distressing and abhorrent qualities of humanity.

[4AD_Punk]

Originally posted by EVIL CAP
Ive been enjoying Outsiders so far Nightwing and Jade are good draws while the other characters can be flushed out as it goes.

Yeah, I really like the team. I'm anxious to have Roy released from the hospital, and get back into action.

My favorite Outsider is Indigo. Followed by Metamorpho, or whatever he decides to call himself.

As I've mentioned in other threads, I'm not a big fan of Grace or Thunder. They are non-engaging characters, and they bore me.

[Lightshear]

I liked Judd's work on Green Lantern, though I've read neither Green Arrow nor Outsiders (for monetary reasons, mostly...). I thought he was good to Kyle's character and did some nice development, as well as introducing some good new cast members. What Ben Raab has done since is an abboration.:disappoin

I do have a question for all the Outsiders readers - What is Judd doing with Jade, as far as her personal life? Is she still considered to be "with" Kyle in that book, or is she slutting around there like Raab has her doing in GL? Or does she just not really refference her personal life? I'm curious because I've been a long-standing fan of her character, and was hoping at least ONE writer was treating her with decency...

[4AD_Punk]

Originally posted by Lightshear
I do have a question for all the Outsiders readers - What is Judd doing with Jade, as far as her personal life? Is she still considered to be "with" Kyle in that book, or is she slutting around there like Raab has her doing in GL? Or does she just not really refference her personal life? I'm curious because I've been a long-standing fan of her character, and was hoping at least ONE writer was treating her with decency...

Jade and Kyle's relationship may have been mentioned once or twice briefly; however, I'm not sure.

But I do know for sure that you shouldn't harbor fear about the way Jade conducts herself in Outsiders. More honestly, she hasn't done much in the book that is noteworthy. However, she has demonstrated maturity and leadership qualities. Moreover, in my opinion I think she is presented as a role-model to the other females of the team who have no experience as heroes: Thunder, Grace and Indigo.

[Lightshear]

Thanks, Punk. It's good to know Judd knows how to treat a lady ;) . I'm thinking of getting into the Outsiders in TPB form, but we'll see. I usually set aside funds all year and then blow my wad at WWChicago, buying trades in bulk. It provides a nice month or two of steady reading afterward, and ample time to avoid impulse-purchases and make sure I really want what I'm buying.

[tyroclix]

When I saw he was taking over Green Lantern - I was nervous. After all, this was that tool from The Real World. FYI - "reality" television - not an endearing venue to generate fans.

But as a writer myself, I decided to give him a chance - after all, I'd hope everyone else would give me a chance. Anyway, I read the first Green Lantern he did - and promptly dropped the title.

The conversation between Kyle and John Stewart in the opening pages was tired, cliche-trendy stink-ola. Black guy listening to Manilow - "I loved the way he played with racial stereotypes" - yawn! Actually it was the most uncreative thing I'd seen in comics since Rob Liefeld.

I then picked up his Outsiders - as DC Heroclix got me intrigued about Nightwing. Plot wise - I think he does a good job. It flows nicely and he, so far, has done a good job with finding the different voices of the characters. I especially liked how Nightwing was against having a Corporation backing the Outsiders while the other characters saw the good in it. A good writer can argue a point from both sides - and he did - at that moment.

I still think, however, when he goes for the Kevin Smith - pop-culture reference it's awkward and tired.

As long as he keeps it to a minimum (and Jade stays on the team) - I'll stick with The Outsiders.

But I won't pick up a title solely because he is writing it.

Just my 2 cents...

[malreux]

Hmmm, liked his run on Green Lantern, especially compared to what has been going on lately. Not even just Jade acting what I condisder out of character, but constantly going What the hell is she thinking any time she does anything. The whole, Im still with kyle, but sleeping with this other guy, but then I break up with him, but then Im pissed he slept with someone else, but i still consider myself waiting for Kyle storyline was a full pound of what the hell for me

[Numb Skrull]

I am not so familiar with his DC stuff, I was interested in The Outiders, but if i was to get into that story I would have to read it from the beginning. thought the stuff he did with Exiles was really great. His run was the best, it was really out their with interesting takes on what could have happened in a parallel universe. When he left the stories where not as great, but when he came back with his Fantastic four story I was very impressed. I think he does have substance and isn't just about flash. His first issues of Exiles IMO were very well written.

[Lightshear]

That's what I'm saying, Malreaux! And Jade isn't the only one; Merayn is pretty trampish/bimbo-ish, too. She's a former intergalactic police officer, a highly decorated Darkstar, and the only jobs she can think to look for are secretary positions? And she encourages Jade to sleep around on Kyle? Because he HASN'T CALLED LATELY?!? It's just foolish and poor writing. And Kyl'es main storyline isn't too hot, either. *sigh* Hurry up, Marz, save us!