Marvel/DC Battles: TEAM Tournament Of Champions: Round 1, Match 10

[DTM]

Well, as many members as our Brotherhood team had, they just couldnt stand up to the powerful onslaught that the Frightful Four could unleash, and were quickly KOed from this contest. The Frightful Four will advance, possibly to battle the Fantastic Four next Round? :)

For our next battle, we have ANOTHER DC TEAM, YIPPEEE!! A second LOSH team in a battle of YOUTH, against a fellow teenage superhero team, so allow me to present to you all:


LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES #2 VS. THE NEW WARRIORS


Legion of Super-Heroes #2 - Princess Projectra, Star Boy, Timber Wolf, Karate Kid, Tellus, Shrinking Violet, Lightning Lass

New Warriors - Night Thrasher, Justice, Firestar, Speedball, Nova, Namorita, Rage, Turbo (female version)


As always, same rules apply, no time to prepare, POOFed from where ever they were, with only what they routinely carry on them, to fight in a Large area til one stands and one falls. YOU decide Who.

Randomly Chosen Area:


Rugged Desert – Lots of sand, some rock formations, scrub brush, small boulders, etc.


Thanks all, and enjoy.

And REMEMBER, if youre not sure who someone is here, ASK. Theres PLENTY of people here who can tell you most anything youd like to know. Thanks again.


TEAM TOURNAMENT OF CHAMPIONS


ROUND 1

Jusitce League #1 VS. Justice League #3: Justice League #3
(Steel, Metamorpho, Firestorm, Hawkgirl, Black Canary, Rocket Red)

Titans VS. JSA: JSA
(Flash I, Power Girl, Hawkman, Mr. Terrific, Starman (Jack), Atom Smasher)

Marauders VS. Hellfire Club: Hellfire Club
(Sebastian Shaw, Emma Frost, Harry Leland, Donald Pierce, Trevor Fitzroy, Shinobi Shaw, Frederick Von Roehm)

X-Men #1 VS. Legion Of Super-Heroes #1: X-Men #1
(Banshee, Colossus, Cyclops, Nightcrawler, Storm, Wolverine)

Alpha Flight VS. Avengers #2: Avengers #2
(Wonder Man, Warbird, Hawkeye, Wasp, Crystal, Spider-Man)

Defenders VS. Masters Of Evil #1: Defenders
(Dr. Strange, Namor, Beast, Black Knight, Valkyrie, Hellcat)

Fantastic Four VS. X-Force: Fantastic Four
(Mr. Fantastic, Invisible Woman, Human Torch, Thing, She Hulk)

Sinister Six VS. X-Men #2: X-Men #2
(Phoenix, Gambit, Rogue, Archangel (metal wings), Havok, Bishop, Iceman (Pre Emma Frost))

Frightful Four VS. The Brotherhood: Frightful Four
(Wizard, Klaw, Blastaar, Trapster, Absorbing Man)

Legion Of Super-Heroes #2 VS. New Warriors: ??????

[CaptainMarvel]

I say New warriors but I'm not sure so a solid arguement could change my vote.

[odieses]

New warriors for the win

[DarthDoom]

whats the LOSH's powers DOOM has no idea who any of them are. is this wax on, wax off karate kid:)

[coad14]

can we get a rundown of losh powers?

[malreux]

Interesting terrain team for these teams, kind of a flyers paradise. Also, bizarrley matched teams for powers. Im not saying these are the fights that would develope, but look at these pairings for a moment.

Night Thrasher-Unpowered Hand to Hand Skateboarder vrs
Karate Kid-Unpowered 30th century greatest martial artist. Both have good stealth cababilities, Thrasher has weapons-Karate Kid has much better reflexes and actual combat skill and can find weaknesses and break things given a moment to study (even supposedly indestructable things and force fields)-also, KK has flight ring, trans-suit, and telepathic earplugs(odds are he wont fly when fighting a grounded opponent though)

Justice- Powerful telekinetic vrs Tellus- Medium Powerful Telekinetic who is also Telepathic and capable of mental assaults (again for the legion, doesnt typically use mind control) Justice could probably take him in a straight tk battle but Tellus is skilled at using Tk and telepathy at the same time, since it is his races primary means of communication. Tellus also has the (useless here) ability to move smoothly thourhg water as his race is "aquatic" (though the oceans he is from arent water) but does have to wear special breathing equipment.

Firestar-flying microwave projector vrs Lightning Lass-flight capable lightning projector. Flight abilities probably about even, although Firestar may have a speed advantage (she always gave the impression of being pretty fast, dont know if it has been measured) damage capabilities probably nearly the same on blasts, but different against different materials (ie microwaves may have more trouble penetrating metal, but less melting plastic than electricity). Firestar seems to have better range, but LL has better control and targeting, since she can do fields and shaped lighting, as well as arc it from one target to another.

Timber Wolf-fast, super strong, super durable, with enhanced senses and a "danger sense" Think of him as a slightly scaled down cross between Spider Man and She Hulk. Not as fast as Spidey, but close and very acrobatic in his fighting style, his danger sense isnt as good as Spider Sense, but is pretty handy in a fight too. He is nearly as strong as She Hulk (at least as I remember her) with strength rangingup into the 70-75 ton range depending on exactly when you are reading him) but not as durable, though he can take a lot of punishment, and is very resistant to damage.

Shrinking Violet-Actually Capable of shrinking or growth, Violet is skilled at using her size changes in conjunction with martial arts to devistating effect, such as going from microscopic to 20 foot height under an enemie's foot, or changing size quickly enough to shrink out of the way of energy beams. In one famous incident she pulled the old "grow in someones brain to give them a stroke trick" but this was an EXTREMELY UNIQUE situation and she in unlikely to do it again.

Star Boy- Capable of "projecting the mass of stars into people or objects" This takes the form of beams from his hands that quickly make people or objects unable to move from extreme gravity. (whether he is actually manipulating mass, weight, or gravity wasnt ever really defined, sometimes has properties of various ones) The longer he focuses a beam, the heavier something gets and the longer it lasts. Based on folk he has used it on in the past, this power should be capable of incapacitating any of the strength based warriors (not quite sure what Rage's upper limits are)

Princess Projectra-This is the old school Humanoid Projectra I think. She is capable of extremely complex and wide ranging illusion casting. She knows the trick of not letting it be known that here powers are illusion based and often simulates other powers, such as summoning monsters or casting flame. She also does more subtle tricks, such as hiding her team as a landscape feature, or disguising dangerous features such as pits or fires as harmless settings. In some situations she has made "negative illusions" and completely cut off and opponents senses, leaving them in a featureless white place in their mind. She is also a dangerous hand to hand combatant, and left the legion after, when the man who killed her husband proved immune to her illusion powers, killed him with her bare hands.

[Silver Lantern]

Enough with the Legion of Super losers. I take Nova and the New Warriors for the win. They are just too powerful for this legion of super wimps. ;)

*Doing his best Battle of the Superfriends' Lex Luthor voice*

[oogie56]

Thanks to malreux for the info on this LoSH. Based on his info it seems like Timber Wolf and Karate Kid are the real strong points. The others seem like they could be taken out fairly easily. On the warriors side, I look at Nova and Namorita being the tough ones here. Speedball and Projectra are the wild cards. At the end, I see it coming down to Timber Wolf v Nova and Karate Kid v Namorita. The Warriors are just too strong.

My vote: New Warriors.

[DareDevil-fan]

Princess Projecta can make people see anything she wants. She can make you see your worst enemy coming at you to kill you, and it could be a teammate that you attack.

Darth doom

Star Boy can make things heavy, people, buildings, so heavy that they could sink in the ground or just lay on the ground and not be able to move.

Timber wolf I dont remember to much about him, just that he's some type of hand to hand fighter. Same thing goes for Karate Kid.

Tellus I have no idea.

Shrinking Violet is like the Atom of JLA fame.

Lightning Lass Is like her brother she can shoot lightning out of her hands toward opponents.

Dont forgt all of them have telepathic ear plugs and legion flight rings. Granted this is a weaker LSH team then the first one, but its still very tough.

After looking over the new warriors lineup. I relieze i dont know who Rage and Turbo are and what they can do.

I'm leaning toward the LSH in this battle but will wait to decide until after I find out the poweres of the 2 NW's I mentioned earlier.

[coad14]

i will vote new warriors

[rouge2]

Princess Projectra - Illusionist. Projectra was able to cast convincing illusions that were impossible to distinguish from the real thing. As she matured, she was able to refine the powers and use them to their maximum ability (For example she could send an opponent into complete sensory depravation).

StarBoy – For most of his stint Starboy had the power to increase an objects mass to nearly unlimited quantities (drawing it from Star matter) This could either incapacitate an opponent (too heavy to move) or literally “Bring the house down” on them. For a while he also had Kryptonian/Daxamite powers, but lost them (post-zero hour he has them again.

Timber Wolf – Moderate Super-Strength (Spidey level) and super agility. Excellent hand to hand skills and prone to battle fury. Cross Wolverine and Spider-man and you get the idea.

Karate Kid – the Universe’s best hand to Hand combatant, bar none. Beat Superboy on numerous occasions, as well as Daxamites and other beings far above his power class. One of the most dangerous men alive

Tellus – Non-humanoid Telekinetic and Telepath (mind-reading only). Also quite strong due to his size and race (think Giant Sea Lion with clubs instead of flippers).

Shrinking Violet - Can shrink to sub-atomic size. Excellent hand to hand skills.

Lightning Lass – can cast Electricity at range with great accuracy. Can also, when enraged, cver her body in living lightning that provides some energy protection as well as frying those in close combat.

[DarthDoom]

For DOOM's second question........Who's the new worriors? DOOM Must know or DOOM will be forced to crush both teams. WAH HA HA HA HA:laugh: :confused: :devious: OOOOOOOOOO Richards boils DOOM's blood:angry:

[rouge2]

Legion takes this one. Good match ups though.

[Ignatz_Mouse]

I'm going with the Legion, for one primary reason-- Projectra. Without a telepath or expert tracker, she's going to be able to hide the team and allow a first strike. I see the characters' power levels as fairly even, but the edge goes to LSH.

[Nighthawk]

I vote New warriors, although neither team will make it through the next round

[bluebeetle]

new warriors

[malreux]

Here is my take on what might actually happen in this fight. I am not up on Rage's current power measurements and the last issues of NW I read had Nova developing some new powers (last issue I can remember was shortly after Rage helped them "boorow" a quinjet.)

All of the Legionairs can fly, compared to most of the Warriors being able to fly. Thrasher and Rage can't Speedball might as well be able to. (despite me being legion nominator, I actually LOVE Speedball. I have his whole solo series.). They also have transuits, which will protect them from heat, cold, and lack of air, but not powered attacks, and telepathic earplugs which let them communicate in a speech like manner without range probelms or needing to be able to hear each other. This gives them a huge coordination advantage. Flight advantage aside, KK and Timberwolf will probably fight on the ground unless they need to tangle with a flyer, as it allows them to make best use of their powers.

Tellus, as per standard Legion operating procedure, would attempt to scan enemies to find out if they are hostile, and learn powers and weaknesses. At that point his best bet might be to try to tie up Justice. I don't really know how powerful Justice got with his tk, because I know it was increasing when I last read New Warriors. Tellus can move a few tons, but is also good at really fine manipulation, and in using his telepathy and mental blasts inconjunction with his TK. If someone posts a current Justice power level we can dedcide better on a winner.

KK, and Shrinking Violet would both be able to dodge Firestar's energy blasts and probably Turbo's blasts if they know they is firing them. Timber wolf can dodge them as well, and has the advantage of his danger sense alerting him to impending attacks.

Timber Wolf and KK are at least capable of taking on one, maybe two of the New Warriors Tanks (Namorita, Nova, Rage) at once. Remember, TW is really hard to hit, he fights closer to a Spiderman fighting style with lots of fast moves and acrobatics, but hits much harder and is very hard to hurt. KK has been able to fight (defensively) against Daxamites and Kryptonians briefly, by using redirection of strength type moves to keep tossing them away from him. That said, I dont know much about Rage, and more info on him would help me predict this more precisely. Also, if needed, the legion could just leave him grounded while they fight others, but this seems out of character for some of them, as I mentioned.

Star Boy essentially needs to hit with an energy beam (not blast) type attack to incapacitate most of the warriors, definately grounding fliers, and likely pinning them to the ground. He is pretty good at hitting things with it too. They least effective people for this trick to work on would be Justice, who can still fight pinned to the ground with TK, and Speedball, because Im not sure making him hit the ground harder would help any.

This is the way i would see the Legion conducting this fight.
Tellus gets as much info as possible to the legion, then concentrates of a mental battle with Justice.

KK fights defensively against Rage and Night Thrasher Timberwolf Fights Nova, trying to bring the fight to the ground, but otherwise battleing in the air, where he is not at his peak.

Lightning Lass has Dogfight with Firestar, which ends with a surprise attack from Violet, who loves to sneak up and blindside folks who are fighting her teammates

Starboy tries to knock down Namorita and focus on her long enough to pin her for a while (she would I think be easier to hit than firestar or Nova, and pinned to the desert floor, she will be weakening anyway)

Projectra sends disorienting illusions to try to keep turbo and speedball from entering the fight, maybe getting them to attack illusionairy targets.

Round 2

Lightning Lass duels a still disoriented Turbo while Violet goes full size and drops on Nova, taking him to the ground for Timber Wolf to double team with her. Projectra switches to cutting off Speedball's senses, which she has to focus on.

Starboy tries to snipe Turbo giveing either LL or him the chance to put her down unless she goes on full defensive run with her superior speed.

Round Three

Violet Grows in Turbo's path and grapples her to the ground, knocks her out. Star boy and Timber Wolf engage Rage, KK puts Night Thrasher down.

The rest of the Legion finishes Justice, if he is protected from mental blasts (not sure if he is, so just matched him with Tellus)

Rest of the Legion has trouble rounding up Speedball, but since he has no idea what is happening they should be able to figure out something involving TK, super heaviness, andgiant hands

Legion Wins-could be harder or easier depending on exact current powers of Nova, Rage, and Justice

[malreux]

Night Thrasher is a hand to hand combatant with armor, a "combat skateboard", pepper spray, an uzi, and an adamantuim garrote

Firestar-Used to be a Hellion. Can fly and project powerful microwave blasts capable of melting stone(?!?)

Nova- Fast flight, medium superstrength, medium invulnerability, seemed to be developing some latent energy blasting powers last I saw him

Speedball-body is covered by bubbles of kinetic energy, making him hard to hurt and harder to hold. He bounces around wildly. Some powerful beings seem to take damage from his bubbles for some reason (the sphinx I seem to recall for one)

Namorita-Relative of Namor(get it? NamorITA cause its a girl), used to be cousin but was retconned or rexplained recently I heard. Slowish but manuverable flight, super strength and durability, but not outright invulnerability I think. Weakens quickly when dehydrated (and fighting in a desert, wink wink), can breath in and is stronger in water

Justice-Name change from Marvel Boy I believe, he has telekinetic powers that increased throught the series and included lifting, striking, and making a TK forcefield. Not sure where they topped out

Rage-Didnt see him much, seemed a fairly standard big strong tank, not sure how strong or durable

Turbo-has a suit that lets her fly and project concussive wind blasts

[proditor]

I just can't see most Marvel Teams beating a team with Karate Kid on it. The guy makes Karnak look "moderately skilled".

My vote: LSH

[Ignatz_Mouse]

7-4 New Warriors

[Mr_Clicky]

New Warriors

[thedon09]

Ah, tough one, but I'll vote New Warriors.

[Swiftspeedster]

I'm voting for the losh, because of what already has been been stated and put into a believable scenario, everyone seems to be voting for the new warriors, but NO ONE is giving any reason as to why, could someone explain to me why they think the new warriors would win rather than just stating that they would it would help a lot in swaying me (and others toward them) and show me that you are voting out of reasoning and not popularity thanx.

[malreux]

Any New Warriors Voters want to mention why?

btw: my bad on Tellus, he doesn't do mental blasts. The picture i was looking at is actually a tk shove I think.

[DarthDoom]

DOOM will not vote. DOOM knows all and would pick losh cause DOOM enjoyed the Karate Kid movie so, but it has nothing to do with the losh.

[Gorrack]

I vote Legion...New Warriors haven't had any good arguements shown to why they would win. I think Legion takes this one based on what others have said.

[techdog]

I am going to pick the New Warriors.
They are more durable to me, they can withstand the first attack of the LOSH, and the counter punch will be stronger than the LOSH can take.

Namorita and Rage are both extremely tough, at or just below Namor level of toughness.

Nova would be on par with Hercules in his ability to withstand damage, and when he is flying he is almost impossible to hurt, and his speed allows him to get a shot in on almost anyone, and his helmet protects him from Mental probes and manipulation and allows him to breathe in space. Although, I don't think he gets any of his Nova blast powers in the this game as they were never really developed in the series, just the one time.

Speedy, I love Speedy. You can't hurt him. Unless you gas him or mentally attack him, he is just going to keep on bouncing until he hits you, and eventually his kenetic field gets to such a degree that he can damage almost anyone(Shpynix, Terrax) not mega damage, but man it will keep you occupied while the other warriors line up to hit you. Also, his kinnetic punch can send anyone for a loop. But, the kinetic filed keeps projectiles and energy beams from reaching him, and a force field around him would eventually break from the pressure its field would cause as it would build up more and more momentum inside it, of course he would be fired out of it like a rocket.

Justice and Firestar, two great support pieces who can do mega damage at the end. Justice is great at throwing up force fields to defend his teammates and throwing the enemy around, and firestars microwaves were enough to bring Carnage to his knees like a little girl!

Throw in Turbo, who, is a good disruptor and if forgotten can definetly take you out.

Laslty, Thrash as the leader usually stands in the back, barking out orders and is like the mid step between Nightwing and Batman, the young, but rich driven vigilante, with guns and cool other toys(smoke bombs, Skateboard shiled, top notch martial artist). he can pick off the other members of the LOSH who have been taken down but not out, he can take then to the full KO.

I agree that the LOSH will get the first strike in, but I think the warriors can survive it, and then overcome it, the toughness of the LOSH is what I question, and I think that the Warriors come out on top of this fight, although they will have a very hard time taking out most of the other power teams in this tourney.

My vote=New Warriors

[CyberVenom]

Round 1:
Karate Kid takes down Night Thrasher.
Justice takes down Tellus.
Lightning Lass and Firestar stalemate.
Timber Wolf takes down Rage.
Speedball takes down Shrinking Violet.
Nova takes down Star Boy.
Princess Projectra takes down Turbo, but is taken down by Namorita.

Round 2:
Justice helps Firestar, and they take out Lightning Lass.
Speedball and Nova take down Timberwolf.
Karate Kid takes down Namorita.

Round 3:
Justice, Firestar, Nova, and Speedball team up on Karate Kid to take him down.

Winner (and my vote): the New Warriors.

[SumYungGai]

The LoSH take this fight easy. The last LoSH team was robbed, so I hope this one can make it.

A few points on some characters, Karate Kid broke a daxamites arm once. He should do much better than fight defensively. His wife, Projectra was also no slouch in hand-to-hand and her powers dwarf Mastermind from the Brotherhood. (Note: if this were her Sensor Girl identity, I would make arguments on her being able to take the win almost singlehandedly). Violet, while she doesn't fight like a bruiser, could easily stand toe-to-toe with anyone in this fight. I have never liked Timber Wolf, but what people have said are accurate, he fight's like Spider-man, but with much greater strength. If Star Boy had a Clix, he would have triple arrow incapacitate, an 11AV, and Willpower (because he could pin people almost indefinately).

On the other hand, I think Firestar would toast Lightning Lass. Justice, though I don't care much for him, would beat Tellus. Poor Namorita will have little effect on the battle due to terrain (although if this were an aquatic battle, it would be interesting to see her vs. Tellus) I won't comment on Night Trasher, other than to say he is LAME!

[banshee12377]

New Warriors

[BAKID]

I have to say LOSH. I don't understand how anyone is voting for the New Warriors without explaining one of their key bruisers, Namorita, will overcome her severe problems fighting in a DESERT. She will be continuously weakening the entire time, won't she? It would be a MAJOR advantage if the New Warriors had drawn the beach environment, wouldn't it? So why isn't it a disadvantage fighting in the desert?

[proditor]

Yeah, I just don't get it. I don't even really like this LSH team, but Karate Kid alone beats up on Daxamites for pete's sake. I made mods of the New Warriors. I have an uninterrupted run of 50-55 issues of the original title...I just don't see them having a chance here.

[Rokk_Krinn]

I'm going to vote for the Legion for a few different reasons here.

1) Projectra: she can literally cloak the whole Legion team. This is a mental power which means Night Thrasher's IR sensors or Firestar's heat-sensory capabilities will be fooled. When a team this powerful is attacking you invisibly, it's going to be nigh-impossible for the win.

2) Karate Kid is the best fighter in the DCU. Think if Cassandra Caine had the whole fighting knowledge of the 30th Century (including thousands of alien races) ingrained into her, plus flight, communication capabilities and a trans-suit. We've seen Val (Karate Kid) hold his own against the mightiest in the DCU. Night Thrasher won't know what hit him and a hothead like Nova is going to be a liability to his own team after KK's through here.

3) Violet. No joke. She can go sub-atomic for the ultimate steatlh attack - especially when she uses the "growing" motion to punch into an opponent as she switches to Leviathan sizes.

4) Timberwolf is going to be hard to lay a hand on but he won't have much trouble connecting wtih his own blows. Sure, he's superhumanly tough, got massive endurance and meta-strength but the real powers that made him eligable for Legion membership included a "danger sense" and incredible speed and agility. His strength can deal with Rage while Rage won't be able to return the favour.

The other members are definite assets - Tellus's mental powers alone will be valuable and Star Boy can play "traffic control" on the other team - but the above reasons are just going to be tough for the New Warriors to deal with here.

Vote: LSH #2

[green_knight]

This is TOTALLY a Legion victory. I used to read New Warriors, and I have no doubt that they always have, do, and will be 2nd class heroes on the level of Bibbo, the bum that found Superman's cape when he died and tried to fight crime.

One thing that doesn't seem to come up much in these threads is the advantage of illusions. The Legion can get one HECK of a jump on anyone if they're disguised as a sand dune or something. They just have to wait for the NW to get close, and then BAM, get an awesome first hit. This is a team that can effectively use stealth to its advantage.

Good variety of powers, especially Projectra and Star Boy. While fighting from cover, those two would beat nearly any other team, quite easily. A team would need a magic user or a psionic to find them. ANd that's only if they find them before everyone gets made super heavy, struggling to fight their own team, since the illusions will have them believing that.


Not even a contest here.

Legion all the way.

And don't even start with the OVERPOWERED baloney, these guys just have a great array of powers for this setting. Some teams do.

[Laenan]

Legion. Illusions are powerful things, without defense against them. *Cough* Mastermind in Brotherhood Fight *Cough*

[Grinner]

Originally posted by techdog
Laslty, Thrash as the leader usually stands in the back, barking out orders and is like the mid step between Nightwing and Batman,

Just what have you been smoking? :p You would rate Night Thrasher above Nightwing? The same Nightwing that Batman chose to lead the JLA? The same Nightwing that Batman regularly says is a better leader than Batman? The same Nightwing who has been doing the hero thing since Night Thrasher first started playing video games?

In what possible way is Night Thrasher supposed to be better than Mr. Grayson?

[Grinner]

Gotta go with the Legion here. The desert limits one of the Warriors key bricks and Jecky's illusions are going to completely mess with them.

Do I think that it'll be a cake walk? No. I'm sure several of the Legionnaires will go down. But I see no likely scenario where the Legion doesn't win most of the time.

[coad14]

i am switching my vote to the legion, some great arguements on thier behalf

[EVIL CAP]

The warriors look like lightweights in this fight i havent read to much Leigon but they look pretty solid [One issue i got to see Karate Kid sparring with Superboy now THATS solid]

I vote Legion

[Gentlegamer]

Legion #2

[green_knight]

Originally posted by Laenan
Legion. Illusions are powerful things, without defense against them. *Cough* Mastermind in Brotherhood Fight *Cough*

How is the brotherhood fight going? If they're not winning, I'll vote for them, based on my own logic. I think I completely missed that fight.

[Iceman425]

I believe the Brotherhood are losing.

As far as this fight goes......

First off, let me say that all arguements have been taken into account for me, and I am not going to repeat other folks points....

Just as the Legion has their un-hittables, so do the New Warriors. There is no doubt in my mind that Karate Kid and Timber Wolf are going to take a shot or two, and the Legion have to acct. for Speedball and Nova in flight or they've got problems.

Just wanted to make sure people understand that they are not ever going to take a punch or a blast, it's a team game, not one on one. There is always the possibility of and two individuals taking any one individual down.

That being said......I believe the first strike will actually fall on the New Warriors here. Nova has never had much patience, and that's gonna really hurt his squad I think. You may very well see a couple of the Legion Kids go down early, even with the scan. Most likely the ones that look like energy projectors, Lightning Lass and Starboy. The NW will hit fast and hard, however I don't think they would do the smart thing after that.

The smart thing would be to get in fast and then pull back, allowing Justice (via TK fields) and Turbo (winds in the desert = sandstorm) to help protect them. I don't see the NW doing this though, I see them trying to press the advatage and put down the remaining Legionarres quickly. This is where it goes haywire for the NW. Being in closer than they should be allows Karate Kid and Timber Wolf to really do their thing.

I see this being a lot closer than the other Legion match (Legion 1 for the win!!), and I see a number of the Legionarres biting it in this one. However, Night Thrasher can't keep this team together long enough to withstand a heavy retaliation (in which he'll probably drop).

Give the New Warriors 5 years (comic time) and they could grow into an amazing fighting force, but right here, right now....they are overclassed.

Legion for the win.

There are many variables that I did not fully account for (Speedball!!), and I can be swayed by a healthy arguement for the New Warriors, but it's gonna have to be a real good arguement.

[The Charlatan]

LOSH

[petenliz9]

unfortunatly I see the win going to the Warrioirs based on lack of knowledge, .......................but I think that LOSH team would kick ##### 75% of the time.

[Nighthawk]

Can I change my vote to LOSH, i have been swayed. I think I forgot how tough Karate Kid can be, despite the name, and Timber Wolf too. although speedball is a huge x-factor, i doubt even starboy (whatever) could gravity him down

And I loved the the first 30 issues of the new warriors, classic imho

[GoldenAge]

Legion

[GreatArelius1]

New Warriors

[Silver Ghost]

I'm voting for the NEW WARRIORS based mostly on SPEEDBALL's invulnerability - he and Vance can be pretty powerful if they pull the Terrax-attack from the comics on Timberwolf (or anyone else for that matter). And I don't think NAMORITA is going to tire *that* quickly in this fight.

NEW WARRIORS for the win!

[Iceman425]

It's gonna be real funny if the New Warriors win this tourney based on Speedball's invulnerability and the attack on Terrax example.

[techdog]

"Just what have you been smoking? You would rate Night Thrasher above Nightwing? The same Nightwing that Batman chose to lead the JLA? The same Nightwing that Batman regularly says is a better leader than Batman? The same Nightwing who has been doing the hero thing since Night Thrasher first started playing video games?

In what possible way is Night Thrasher supposed to be better than Mr. Grayson?"

First of all, Grinner, I respect your opinions so I am going to phrase this nicely. Get off my back. My opinion of where I place Nightwing and Night Thrasher is my opinion, you don't like it, thats great, I will listen to your arguments, with an open mind, but insulting me is really not necessary. I said that Thrasher was the mid-step between Bats and Nightwing. Such as, he is a multi-million dollar owner of a corparation, whose parents were killed, which led him to devote his life to seek vengence, and made him into a formidable fighting force. He is young, and leads a team of young heroes who others also think are not ready for the big leagues. Who I think is better, well, it is not really a comparison, since in DC heroes are Icons and in Marvel heroes are people, and usually Icons win over people. I am not saying which view is better, whatever you like to read is cool, that is just my opinion. So, in my opinin I compare Thrasher to Nightwing, and that is all I am saying on that one.

As for Namorita weakening in the dessert, never happen. She only gets dehydrated if she is out of the water for a long time, like a week, and this fight ain't going that long, so don't anyone pull that she will be a non-factor. She is just below Namor in power and skill(with less temper and catch-phrases), so she is not dropping easy to anyone.

The Illusions will not work more than once, sice the Warriors stay in contact with the badges, they will know if they are staring at the genuine article or not, and they will not work on Nova at all, so he will just drop the cause of them.

Speedy also has the chance of knocking out several legioners own his own, since they can't hurt him! And also, if the warriors were being "attacked by invisble people: Firestar would do a pulse wave attack and I am sure that would bring the people back to sight.

I just think that the Legion will not be able to withstand the power of the Warriors, they can't take the same punches the Warriors can, and for the Legion to win they will have to not be touched, and that is not going to happen. Yeah. The Karate Kid will be standing at the end, but he will be facing at least Speedy, Nova, and Firestar, and possibly more. So, he will also go down.

[malreux]

Honestly I think Speedball is my favorite marvel character. Has anyone here read his solo series, from well before new warriors? He had no idea of his level of damage resistance so every time he survived something it was a huge surprise for him, his parents were RABIDLY fighting over what he would do when he grew up. His villains were guys like "a guy that broke into the school tp steal records" and a guy that put on a rat mask to shoot cats in the park. My favorite was "The Basher." He flunked out of police academy so he would hide in alleys and throw shot puts at policemen. That said he is pretty hard to take down. Times I remember him being beaten were by Roulette from the Hellions supercharging, then shorting out his power. MMMMM, the mad thinker's android grabbed and held him in an elastic grip. I remember him being in trouble when he tried to rescue his mom from eco terrorists, but I dont remember which of the elemental powered people he was fighting. Also, someone from the team with the telepathic math guy, but I really blank on which. Don't think Star Boy would do the trick, just give him less control and make him bounce harder. I think Lightning Lass might be able to knock him out, her blasts dont need impact to work, and she can make an electric field for him to bounce into and knock him out. Speculation though. Maybe Shrinking Viloet could manage a gentle grab, or shrink to get between him and his bubbles, never really told us how much room there is between them and his skin, they are shown with gaps unless he in trapped in something (like the forcefield incident). The only sure bet on the team is Projectra taking out his senses and just taking him out of the fight that way, letting him run out of steam on his own.

P.S. Night Thrasher tries really hard, but I think he made three of the most memorable bad moves in comics history

1.) Having a housekeeper that old school evil Emma Frost was afraid of

2.) The less said about Pepper Spraying Terrax the better

3.) Pulling a gun on the Punisher as his great equalizer

[techdog]

Originally posted by malreux
Honestly I think Speedball is my favorite marvel character. Has anyone here read his solo series, from well before new warriors? He had no idea of his level of damage resistance so every time he survived something it was a huge surprise for him, his parents were RABIDLY fighting over what he would do when he grew up. His villains were guys like "a guy that broke into the school tp steal records" and a guy that put on a rat mask to shoot cats in the park. My favorite was "The Basher." He flunked out of police academy so he would hide in alleys and throw shot puts at policemen. That said he is pretty hard to take down. Times I remember him being beaten were by Roulette from the Hellions supercharging, then shorting out his power. MMMMM, the mad thinker's android grabbed and held him in an elastic grip. I remember him being in trouble when he tried to rescue his mom from eco terrorists, but I dont remember which of the elemental powered people he was fighting. Also, someone from the team with the telepathic math guy, but I really blank on which. Don't think Star Boy would do the trick, just give him less control and make him bounce harder. I think Lightning Lass might be able to knock him out, her blasts dont need impact to work, and she can make an electric field for him to bounce into and knock him out. Speculation though. Maybe Shrinking Viloet could manage a gentle grab, or shrink to get between him and his bubbles, never really told us how much room there is between them and his skin, they are shown with gaps unless he in trapped in something (like the forcefield incident). The only sure bet on the team is Projectra taking out his senses and just taking him out of the fight that way, letting him run out of steam on his own.

P.S. Night Thrasher tries really hard, but I think he made three of the most memorable bad moves in comics history

1.) Having a housekeeper that old school evil Emma Frost was afraid of

2.) The less said about Pepper Spraying Terrax the better

3.) Pulling a gun on the Punisher as his great equalizer

I love the Masked Marvel as well, I have several of his early series books. Robbie is great. The times you mentioned him losing, were all pretty early in his career, before he got in sync with his kinetic field. The elastic grip would work if you could grab him, but you would have to be moving so slowly as to create little to no momentum, in order to hold him, and then, as long as you could desperse the kinetic energy that his movements caused, you could hold him, but I am not sure who could do it. The Mathemaniac did give him trouble when they first met in New Warriors 3, but the second time they met Speedy dropped him even with the applied gravity, and that was a mental attack, where Robbie is vulnerable. The Eco Terrorist got him with the dump 30 gallons of sludge on him from the top down, negating his field, and the chemical in the sludge dampened his field enough to take him out. But, that is not going to happen here in this battle. The only person who really schooled Speedy was Gideon, who took over Speedy's powers, and was able to use them better than Speedy, and then Gideon pimped slapped the Marvel into dreamy land.

As for Thrash, yeah, he is young and learning, and I loved the gun pull on Punisher, that was great! He was very green in the beginning, but he learned a lot, and really by the end of the series, he was a really good tactician. I blame a lot of the early mistakes on Tai and his older bodyguard. And, you had to try and use the pepper spray, how did he know that Terrax didn't need to breathe? ;)

[malreux]

Hmmm, that wasn't the eco terrorist fight I meant, though probably in an issue in the same sequence I missed ( i always miss a couple of issues of things when I move.) THis was the last fight before they rescued his mom and headed back to the states. The terrorists had hired people with elemental powers, a plant guy somehow related to the floronic man, an air controler who was an ex eternal or something, a woman with fire powers, and a water guy. The only other thing I remember from the issue, besides Namorita being trapped early on from plant guy sucking moisture out of her with plants, is at the end of the final fight, when they are all tallying up who one what, Namorita shows up with the last guy and says "He tried to fight me by hitting me with water" because its the water guy. Then the go home to find the Hellions there.

[malreux]

Got an easy way for them to catch a sense deprived, or even somewhat active Speedball. The flight rings are psychoreactive antigravity metal, and when they were first invented it was explained and demonstrated that it could also be used for legionairs without super strength to lift heavy objects in the air (and then ignored by almost every writer since, except a couple of times when dealing with Bloks attempts to fly). They should be able to match velocities, and hold him in the air with this without triggering the field. I would count on it more if brainy was there to remind them of this though.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Why even let Speedy bounce and build up kinetic motion? Everyone keeps having Vance and Tellus square off because for some reason it's just assumed the two tk'ers will do that. Why? Far more logical choice against someone like Vance would be Shrinking Violet (he's not going to think to try and TK something he can't see) or Lightning Lass. Meanwhile Tellus can just suspend Speedball in the air until Val (KK) sleeper holds Robby (I'm talking about telekinetically dangling Speedball - not encasing him in a TK shield to build up power; Speedball's powers rely on him having momentum and something to direct himself off of).

Here's a thought about Star Boy: he's creative with his powers. He doesn't just use it to weigh a person down to immobility. Someone like Turbo he's far more likely to increase the mass of the suit's components until they collapse to pieces (essentially crumbling the suit with a gravity shot). He learned the hard way to think when using his powers - he was the first Legionnaire convicted of killing (self-defense, but Brainiac 5 showed a way that Thom's powers would've incapped the foe if Star Boy had just stopped and thought about it).

[pangea]

new warriors for what should be their only victory

[DTM]

After 2 switched votes to the LOSH, our Current Voting Totals are:

LOSH #2 - 20 votes
New Warriors - 13 votes

Hmmmm, Im still wondering how we got a character (Karate Kid), 1 of 7 for that team, that can beat Daxamites (Kryptonians) yet weve deemed Superman, a Kryptonian, and his power level TOO MUCH. Hmmmmm.

[Ignatz_Mouse]

Karate Kid can fight a Daxamite to a standstill, generally, but he's fairly vulnerable to all sorts of attacks, being a non-powered human.

If this weren't the New Warriors, he'd could easily be trashed by a psychic, or expert long-range blaster.

[DTM]

So he has normal human athlete level durability then, hes just an ULTIMATE FIGHTER character, like Karnak?

[Ignatz_Mouse]

Yep.

He's also specifically trained to fight super-types, too.

[DTM]

I see. Well then that makes him alittle more level and in range with this tournie then. :)

[techdog]

Originally posted by Ignatz_Mouse
Karate Kid can fight a Daxamite to a standstill, generally, but he's fairly vulnerable to all sorts of attacks, being a non-powered human.

If this weren't the New Warriors, he'd could easily be trashed by a psychic, or expert long-range blaster.

You mean like Firestar? She is an excellent long range blaster, or turbo could hit him with a hurricane force wind and send him flying, and he lands on his head! Speedy or Nova drop this guy in one or two shots.

The Warriors are getting way undersold here, as I knew they would, but at least there was some love for speedy on the thread! Matching velocity with him to catch him sounds interesting, I am not sure how it would work, or how slow and long it would take to do it, but it is a great idea.

[Ignatz_Mouse]

techdog, those guys have other Legionaires to deal with, too.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Originally posted by techdog
You mean like Firestar? She is an excellent long range blaster, or turbo could hit him with a hurricane force wind and send him flying, and he lands on his head! Speedy or Nova drop this guy in one or two shots.


Speedy or Nova would have to connect and that's pretty unlikely (heck, Rich's momentum would be his own worst enemy against KK). Turbo might be able to keep blowing Val backwards, but I doubt he's hitting his head - the guy knows how to twist and roll with the best of them (heck, he _is_ the best of them). Plus, as noted, it's not like the whole New Warriors team can center in on Karate Kid (and if they choose to, that's probably not a smart strategy).

[Dalandow]

New Warriors

[techdog]

Rokk and Ignatz,

I know that they can't focus on KK, but they don't have to, if he is left standing at the end with Nova and Speedy, then he is not going to take them.

I know I am fighting a losing battle here, since everyone voted before I could really make a good case for the Warriors, but no one has told me how the Legion is going to take out Nova, or Speedy, or Justice for that matter. The only argument was that the LOSH would get the first shot in due to mental illusions(which won't work on Nova anyway, so he could tell the other warriors what is coming!).

I just wish people would have had more facts before voting( I mean come on Namorita weakening the moment she is in a dessert? She does not dry out in 5 minutes! Rage is just below Hercules in stregnth and toughness, but no one even thinks he is a factor since he can't fly, but he could be TK'd or flown in!) I just can't see the Warrior team losing to this version of the Legion, but it looks like they are going to. Darn, oh well. Still love the thread DTM this tourney is the best yet!

[malreux]

I think, with no disrespect to Nova, that KK or Timberwolf could take him one on one. He is very strong, very tough, and very fast, but he is a straight up fighter and his charging style of attack makes him their favorite type of opponent to fight. KK almost specializes in takeing out fast, super strong flying foes, and Timber Wolf is about as durable, stronger, and much more manuverable (but not faster in a straight flight speed sort of way) A Timber Wolf vrs. Nova fight would look a lot like Spider Man vrs Rhino in style, but Timber wolf hits harder. Also, Projectra hiding Legionairs in illusions, while certainly a viable tactic for her, tends to not be her favorite style. SHe is generally really offensive with her powers, making foes fight each other, recoil in fear, or just so disoriented that they cant deal with reality at all. Also, she has on at least one occasion just blanked away all of a foes senses, leaving him basically alone in a white space. I actually think this would be the teams best bet of taking Speedball out of the fight and make the low impact grab technique a lot easier to pick up. Also still wondering about an electrical field, which would electrify him without any actual impact. Also it was mentioned that Tellus could grab him telekinetically (which isnt really a field tk like Justice does) if he wasnt sent out to fight a loosing battle with Justice.

On the topic of Justice I am less happy to conjecture because I know his power was growing by leaps and bounds in the series, and did not ever get to see where he topped out. If you can let us know here, I will try to figure where he fits into the picture.

[green_knight]

Originally posted by techdog


I know I am fighting a losing battle here, since everyone voted before I could really make a good case for the Warriors, but no one has told me how the Legion is going to take out Nova, or Speedy, or Justice for that matter. The only argument was that the LOSH would get the first shot in due to mental illusions(which won't work on Nova anyway, so he could tell the other warriors what is coming!).



Why won't mental illusions work on Nova? Sorry, but I haven't read this thread in a few pages and don't have time to go hunting around for it. Any info would be appreciated.

[DTM]

Originally posted by techdog
Rokk and Ignatz,

I know that they can't focus on KK, but they don't have to, if he is left standing at the end with Nova and Speedy, then he is not going to take them.

I know I am fighting a losing battle here, since everyone voted before I could really make a good case for the Warriors, but no one has told me how the Legion is going to take out Nova, or Speedy, or Justice for that matter. The only argument was that the LOSH would get the first shot in due to mental illusions(which won't work on Nova anyway, so he could tell the other warriors what is coming!).

I just wish people would have had more facts before voting( I mean come on Namorita weakening the moment she is in a dessert? She does not dry out in 5 minutes! Rage is just below Hercules in stregnth and toughness, but no one even thinks he is a factor since he can't fly, but he could be TK'd or flown in!) I just can't see the Warrior team losing to this version of the Legion, but it looks like they are going to. Darn, oh well. Still love the thread DTM this tourney is the best yet!

Dont give up stating your case here TD, the New Warriors are only down by 6 votes, 14 to 20, and since we still have a few days left for this and ANY First Round battle, your words here may sway enough votes to change the outcome.

[techdog]

Marleux,
At the end of the Warrior series, when he was the acting leader and driving force of the team, he had amazing control over his TK abilities. His focus was awesome, he could create multiple shieilds of great size and strength, fly all of the non-flyers on the team at once, and his offensive capabilites were way better than the beginning of the series. He was a real force to be reckon with, he could send out the "mind punches" and hit with serious force. When forced to it his TK attack is lethal(he did grind all of his abusive father's bones to dust with one stress driven shot), now he doesn't lose control like that often, but he is still a very powerful force. Not to the level he reaches in GOTG, and I am not sure what happened when he hit the Avengers, but still someone to be feared, but he was usually overlooked. Same with Firestar, her power level was growing huge, again not sure what happened with the Avengers, but whe was able to hurt many major villians with her blasts alone in the end of the series. The Electric Field with Speedy, I am not sure about, but it is an option, but I think it would take a lot to knock him out, and I don't see Lightning Lass getting that much time to do it. The Illusions don't work on Nova since his Helmet(the one given to him by the aliens to be protector of earth) blocks out mental manipulation to his brain. So, he is not going to be messed with. I am also not sure about Justice, I am not sure what his TK shiled can block out, I know he used it to protect himself from Mathemaniac's psychic manipulation, but Mathemanic was not really that much of a power telepath. Although, I do think that Projectera is the best weapon for taking out Speedy, but I think she won't be around long enough to do it. Although Marleux, I like your thoughts on this fight, and you make me think that KK will be a much stronger foe than I am giving him credit for, but I still think he will be outsumbered in the end, and I think he will fall to either a Justice or Firestar long range attack(although, he might just drop Rage and Namorita before it happens)

Don't worry DTM, I never lose without a fight! But thanks for the encouraging words!

[Iceman425]

Techdog,
I was really on the fence in this one (as well as the Defenders/MoE and YJ/Avengers). I gave it to the Legion, but would like to know more about how you feel that the Warriors can exploit the Legion's weaknesses.

I'm still kinda on the fence with this one. Seeing as I know nothing of the Legion and only know the New Warriors from a couple of crossovers with other teams.

DTM, please re-tract my vote from the Legion for the time being. Thanks.

[techdog]

Iceman425,
I think the way they can take advantage of the weakness is this, the LOSH will be using the Illusions to come in and try and surprise the Warriors, but it won't work since Nova will be immune to it. So, the LOSH come in on a false hope of getting the drop on the Warriors. Justice puts up the TK shield to withstand the first attack of Starboy and Lass, and then the warriors explode out. Nova zips and drops someone with a charging punch, when he is flying he is almost as hard to hit as Cannonball(not quite but you get the point), he drops Projectora, so the Illusions go away. Turbo's wind powers keep the Legion a little off balance for a moment, long enough for Firestar to get the shot on Lass in and dropping her down. Now, I think Starboy will be able to take out Turbo, but in so doing he will leave himself open to either a Nova making the rebound trip, or Firestar making the second range attack. Leaving Tellus to face Firestar and Nova, and I think he is just overwhelmed here. Now, the ground fight actually favors the Legion I think. KK and Timberwolf are much better fighters hand to hand then the grounded warriors. Rage is hercules lite, but he is tough and very hard to take out, he will take some effort to take out. Namorita is smiliar to Namor, but I also think she will go down to KK. Speedy is the wildcard here, as he might up end getting a lucky punch in on KK or T-wolf, but either way, they cannot hurt him, just avoid him. The reason that T-wolf and KK go down is Justice in the back, either TK attacking them where they can't see it coming, or holding them still long enough for Nova to connect with a punch or two.
I just see Justice, Speedy and Nova as being too much for KK and T-wolf at the end.

[malreux]

I love this thread, it feels a lot more like a chess match to me and I think we are getting some of the best discussion I have seen in these threads, especially since I know a fair amount about both teams. I do have a partial counter to some of your last post Techdog. Projectra's illusions are mystical projections and not mental illusions, or mental powers at all really. Each member of the royal family she belongs to was given a sorcerous gifts at birth by her grandmother Hagga. Later, after leaving the legion because she executed the man who killed Karate Kid with her bare hands (she claimed it was her royal right, and he was immune to her illusions) she came back with a disguise and a name change to Sensor Girl and the enhanced ability to see through illusions, and dicern all hidden and concealed things (including truths, which turned out to make her very powerful.) For a while Brainiac 5 thought she was the pre crisis supergirl back from the dead. This isn't that version of her though, this would be her shortly before Karate Kid was killed, but after they were married.

Justice is a harder one to make an easy answer to and I think it would wind up a grind of whoever was left fighting whoever was left. I could see an absolutely brutal battle between him and Timber Wolf. Wolf sledgehammering the shields and dodging like crazy while Justice pounds him into the sand. Or Karate Kid bobbing and weaving while looking for weak points in the field (a common power trick of his is breaking indestructible things, or force fields, by finding a weak spot karnak style, but he has to focus somewhat to do it and it would be a trick if he had to defend at the same time.) Star Boy could pin him to the ground, but he might still be able to keep a shield up and strike out, and there isnt a lot for Star Boy to drop on him in the desert. Vi could stay small and hidden until he dropped his guard, then do her sudden 20 foot tall smash trick, depends on who is left, but like I said, would be a fight in any case. How is his stamina here? I know his powers used to tire him out, and cause the nose bleeds and stuff, but it seemed like that was improving. Could he keep up in a fight where someone could fight as hard as him and had enhanced endurance too, like Timber Wolf?

[malreux]

Also your breakdown forgot about Shrinking Violet. Kinda Hank pym of the group since the nom specified current form where she can shrink or grow. Like most growth sorts, she can dish it out pretty good and is hard to hurt in big form, but is a little softer than more compact invulnerable sorts (the whole Giant Man vrs the Hulk problem) but can also shrink and is very good at using these abilities fluidly in combat to dodge attacks (like shrinking out of the way of them) and maximizing their leverage (like growing in mid punch to add a lot of force to the punch) also good tricks like a flying invisibly small violet suddenly growing above a flyer to drop them to the ground, or above a target to just smash them.

Iceman425, I feel your pain. I don't think I have seen a fight on here in a while that I couldn't have argued either way.

[techdog]

The Nose bleeds stopped after the whole incident with his father, and the visit from his future self(Major Vance), after that, his focus and drive was amazing, with control over his powers far better than any level he had before. His force fields can stand up to quite a lot of abuse, I cannot think of a specific example right now, but I can break out the books and see.

As for Vi, well she is the Legion Wildcard to me(no pun meant), I am not totally familiar with her. I think that with the Warriors winning the Range battle, that it trumps the close combat in the end. But, keep going, I am loving this discussion!

[malreux]

Heh, and to break my own number of posts in a row record

Actually, this is for techdog re: Your vote for Young Justice

Dont forget the Legion Team is Kids too...

Well, they have been kids since the 1960s, but that is besides the point!

At one point they had a rule that no one over 21 could enter. Supergirl (pre crisis) lost her membership bid because she had been artificially aged by red kryptonite to like 25 or something, so they wouldnt let her in. Later you had to leave if you got married. That got repealed too.

This crew has aged a little bit though. Heck, KK and Jeckie are married, and Star Boy sports a fine 70s beard.

(hmm, just noticed my nom Legion Team is a married couple with a doomed ending, a long standing couple with bad blood between them, and argueably the two unluckiest at love Legionairs. They should really stop fighting the Warriors and get some relationship counseling)

[techdog]

Yeah, I forgot about Thrasher too. I am not sure if the pepper spray, Uzi, kevlar and concussion smoke bombs work in this fight. But, he is a good tactician, and pretty good at creating diversions and leading the team. I just see the Warriors performing a better team attack. The LOSH in this version just seem like Individual pieces, where the warriors train and practice all the time as how to fight as a team (like the x-men) and I think this and Justice gives them the edge.

I thought that Projectora's illusions were aimed into the brain, but if they are mystical that is different. I still think she will go down early, but maybe not as easily as I was saying before.

[techdog]

Originally posted by malreux

(hmm, just noticed my nom Legion Team is a married couple with a doomed ending, a long standing couple with bad blood between them, and argueably the two unluckiest at love Legionairs. They should really stop fighting the Warriors and get some relationship counseling)

Haha, this is their edge! Nova will get them talking about love and relationships long enough for justice to incase them in a force field and pin them for 10 seconds!

:p

[Iceman425]

How do the Warriors deal with Projectra's Mystical Illusions? I still see the Legion ahead slightly, but the NW are covering a lot of ground in grabbing my vote.

Either way Techdog and Malreux, keep up the good fight. I lost my fight for Alpha Flight to an over-matched mish mosh of Avengers.

I do like the fact that this match isn't falling prey to the "Brand Name" syndrome with tons of votes one way or the other because they are more recognizable. A nice objective look at two interesting teams. I like that.

[malreux]

Legion does train A LOT though, and what a lot of folks (and by that I mean as a percentage of folks who know who they are) forget it that the Legion after the whole clubhouse for superheros era ended, was a government sanctioned and supported paramillitary group. They tried to focus on more super powered foes but had no problem going into military situations if neccesary. The other element of their training specifically is to be able to make swing teams of legionairs for pretty much any type of situation. With several dozen members at any given time, they would usually be sent out it groups of 4-7 members that were either hand picked for a specific foe, or a good spectrum team if they didnt know what they would be up against. This team I put together in part because several members to have a long histroy together, KK and Projectra, Timberwolf and Lightning Lass. I mentioned early on that it was funny how close in some ways these teams were, telekinetic vrs telekinetic, energy thrower vrs energy thrower, martial artist-martial artist, fast tank-fast tank (timberwolf/namorita). A all told are young, but a couple of substitutions (members i considered for the team) could have looked like this

Justice vrs Tellus

Rage vrs Blok (strong stone ultratank, barely humanoid he is so big)

Firestar vrs Wildfire (fast flying very powerful long or short range energy projector, can do focus or area, effects look an aweful lot like her microwave energy)

Speedball vrs Bouncing Boy (not much to explain here)

Namorita vrs Timberwolf

Night Thrasher vrs Karate Kid

Timber Wolf vrs Namorita

Turbo vrs. Triplicate Girl (ok, I was trying to balance adding wildfire with replaceing Jeckie with Bouncing Boy and Triplicate Girl)

[techdog]

Well Marleux, what does Projectora need to do to create or aim the illusions. Can they touch you? Do they do damage other than just making you see things? Could she project them into a TK Shield, and would she be knocked down by a wide spread pulse wave burst from say firestorm, or do the illusions go away if she is not concentrating on them? Like, if Turbo did a massive wind blast that knocked out her concentration?

I like the second team a lot. Although looking at it, I still think the fight comes down to T-wolf and KK against Justice, Nova and Speedy, and I think the range wins. But, I totally see your side of it Marleux, very well done.

[malreux]

Ok, same teams, poofed into the desert with no warnings.
Legion team is how it exists shortly before KK's death
This is how it really goes

Round 1
Teams appear and begin to fight. Karate Kid fluidly breaks Night Thrasher's Skateboard. Thrasher asks how he did it, martial arts conversation begins

Timber Wolf makes comment about Turbo's and Namorita's Costumes. Nova Laughs. Timber Wolf recieves electrical blast, causing clothes to smoke. Nova Recieves winged kick to the butt, causing him to crash into sand.

Turbo, embarrased by comment, twists uncomfortably. Namorita responds by slamming Lightning Lass's garb

Shrinking Violet wishes she could join the wisecracking, but is someone overcome by angst. Hides by shrinking.

Star Boy strikes up conversation with Turbo about difficulty of pulling off wearing a costume that is "far too sexy"..."especially with this beard"

Star Boy asks Speedball if he plays Fantasy RPGs. They depart to find games and sodas.

Round 2

KK and Projectra are discussing problems of mixing plans to start a family with superhero lifestyle with Justice and Firestar. Projectra sidetracks Justice with discussion of murder defense trials.

Rage, unable to fly, begins to discuss problems of adolecent size changes with Shrinking Violet.

Namorita and Lightning Lass discuss how "men are pigs"

Timber Wolf and Nova depart area in search of beers

Star Boy strikes up conversation with Turbo about difficulty of pulling off wearing a costume that is "far too sexy"..."especially with this beard"

Thrasher tries to get back in the conversation by showing off his adamantium garrotte. KK casually smashes it, causing Thrasher, enraged, to pull an Uzi.

Projectra, KK, Firestar, and Justice leave to seek marriage counselor, preferably one that takes Legion or Avengers health care programs

Star Boy asks Speedball if he plays Fantasy RPGs. They depart to find games and sodas.

Round Three

Rage and Violet depart to find high school dance

Lightning Lass and Namorita depart to find dance club "with a bar and a pool"

Turbo departs to ask Hindsight to design bulkier flying costume

Night Thrasher departs to go home alone...again

Winner...DARKSEID!!!!

[malreux]

They can go through force fields alright. Normally they would go away if she was knocked out, but with some extra concentration she can make them last longer (when she punished a criminal by taking away his senses, she sealed them that way I think,) They cant directly hurt you, though touching them doesnt make them go away, but she could indirectly hurt you, say by making Turbo thing the ground was the sky, or Nova think his friends were enemies and vise versa. She doesn't have to point or anything, she just wills it. Also, she can affect multiple senses (fire would feel hot, even though it wouldnt actually burn you to be in it.) SHe has no invulnerability, but does use illusions to make herself seem to be in other places, or be other things, and she rarely lets enemies know she is using illusions if she can help it. For instance, if fighting Firestar, she could make herself appear to be several feet away from where she was, so Firestar would miss her, however, she would make the illusion look like she was just unaffected by the blast, or maybe destroyed by it, or maybe it was really Rage...

[techdog]

Originally posted by malreux
Ok, same teams, poofed into the desert with no warnings.
Legion team is how it exists shortly before KK's death
This is how it really goes

Round 1
Teams appear and begin to fight. Karate Kid fluidly breaks Night Thrasher's Skateboard. Thrasher asks how he did it, martial arts conversation begins

Timber Wolf makes comment about Turbo's and Namorita's Costumes. Nova Laughs. Timber Wolf recieves electrical blast, causing clothes to smoke. Nova Recieves winged kick to the butt, causing him to crash into sand.

Turbo, embarrased by comment, twists uncomfortably. Namorita responds by slamming Lightning Lass's garb

Shrinking Violet wishes she could join the wisecracking, but is someone overcome by angst. Hides by shrinking.

Star Boy strikes up conversation with Turbo about difficulty of pulling off wearing a costume that is "far too sexy"..."especially with this beard"

Star Boy asks Speedball if he plays Fantasy RPGs. They depart to find games and sodas.

Round 2

KK and Projectra are discussing problems of mixing plans to start a family with superhero lifestyle with Justice and Firestar. Projectra sidetracks Justice with discussion of murder defense trials.

Rage, unable to fly, begins to discuss problems of adolecent size changes with Shrinking Violet.

Namorita and Lightning Lass discuss how "men are pigs"

Timber Wolf and Nova depart area in search of beers

Star Boy strikes up conversation with Turbo about difficulty of pulling off wearing a costume that is "far too sexy"..."especially with this beard"

Thrasher tries to get back in the conversation by showing off his adamantium garrotte. KK casually smashes it, causing Thrasher, enraged, to pull an Uzi.

Projectra, KK, Firestar, and Justice leave to seek marriage counselor, preferably one that takes Legion or Avengers health care programs

Star Boy asks Speedball if he plays Fantasy RPGs. They depart to find games and sodas.

Round Three

Rage and Violet depart to find high school dance

Lightning Lass and Namorita depart to find dance club "with a bar and a pool"

Turbo departs to ask Hindsight to design bulkier flying costume

Night Thrasher departs to go home alone...again

Winner...DARKSEID!!!!

Ok, I love this version of the battle. Darkseid moves on! This is too good to ignore.

[Grinner]

Originally posted by techdog
Ok, I love this version of the battle. Darkseid moves on! This is too good to ignore.

All hail the Dark Lord of Apokalips!!

Malreux, not only is that hilarious but it actually portrays everyone in character!

[techdog]

Hmm, with her power being mystic driven and seemingly very effective, I think she is tougher than I thought, but with the wide spread effect of several of the warriors powers(pulse waves, wind blasts, Speedy's field, and Justice's TK push) I think she will still be able to be taken out. But really, both teams have such good arguments for and against them now, I think it just comes down to which version of the comic book you believe or like more. And I cannot fault or argue with that. Well done Marleux!

[malreux]

heh, that victory brought to you courtesy of Legion writers who, apparently afraid the 30th century was out of big enough menaces, forced the legion to fight TWO DARKSEIDS!

Wait untill the sequel, when the Phil and Jef Moy era legion team up with the new warriors, and young justice to battle a power cosmic enhanced POWER PACK!

Guest starring those orphan kids in the winnebago Devin Grayson wrote who's comic's name I cant remember

[Rando]

I'm gonna vote Legion

the team with the infromtation (Tellus's telepathy), experience, and abilitiy to create misinformation for their opponents should win unless there is a huge power disparity (and i don't think there is). New Warrors are further hampered here by the environment and omnipresent flight, Rage can't take the battle to people, they have to go to him, and without lots of surfaces to bounch off of, Speedball's offensive options are kind of limited.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Originally posted by malreux
Guest starring those orphan kids in the winnebago Devin Grayson wrote who's comic's name I cant remember

The Scooby-Doo Gang? *jk* :)

'Course I can just see it now..Shag and Scoob turn the corner in the dark creepy techno-castle and see a huge banquet table overladen with food.

Shag: Zoinks! We've hit the jackpot ol' buddy ol' pal!

Scooby: Ruh-huh!

*commence pig-out montage*

Door to the banquet chambers opens again as DeSaad in pure toady mode rants, "And of course Great Lord and Master of All Life and Anti-Life we have spared no expense for your...birthday...cele-" *DeSaad's face drops about ten feet before the Omega Effect disintegrates him*

*Shag and Scooby are still pigging out, having failed to notice this*

Shaggy: Scoob, pass me the double-Parademon relish for this sandwich. *hand passes the bottle to him, Shaggy goes to grab the bottle and notices the hand feels rocky...traces it back up to Darkseid's face*

JINKIES!!!

[Rokk_Krinn]

I'd have mentioned Fred, Daphne and Velma but it doesn't take long to realize they're elsewhere on Apokolipse where the gals have been captured and brainwashed into Female Furies by Granny Goodness. Fred's fate, after that, is all but assured. ;)

[Ignatz_Mouse]

Malreux is a genius.

[malreux]

Granny Goodness taking a PERSONAL interest in Fred's training? OH well, better than my first bleary eyed read, when I thought it said ShaQ and Scooby. "look at all that food...dog" " Reah, rand Rai reed rome ratteries ror rai radio!" "Oh, i will hook you UP!"

[DTM]

Great debates guys, one of the best, and certainly most civil, of these battle threads Ive ever read. Kudos to you all for helping make this Team Tournament the best one yet. :)

[New Warrior]

I vote for the warriors because I am one.