Am I in the minority: few fans who like JLA Tenth Circle? (possible spoilers)

[4AD_Punk]

At first, I didn't touch this story: a guy who works at my local comic book store said not to buy it because it was terrible.

However, yesterday I decided to buy the first and second issues of the JLA Tenth Circle story because I thought it was relevant: I'm going to be subscribing to Doom Patrol.

After reading the first two issues, it's not that bad. I like it. Granted, it's not as excellent as previous stories.

However, I don't like what they did to Superman in this story. I'm not even a Superman fan, but everything Byrne and Claremont have done is just wrong: an injustice. Oh, and I think the same can be said about Batman after reading the latest issue: he would have been totally prepared for what occurred.

[Yeti]

I don't see it as wrong at all.

Everyone knows that Supes is just as vulnerable to everything mystic as the next guy, so a Vampire taking control of him is not a stretch by any means.

I like that they hinted that we might learn a little more about Faith in these issue, like where is she from and how she came to be.

Batman prepared for a possible invasion of Vampires that were vanquished to the 10th circle of hell several thousand years ago? He prepares for everything but isn't that a bit of a stretch? Really.

Yeah it is not as action packed as other JLA stories but that is Claremont's style. It takes a while but then things go boom, and explode all over the pages. Give it time, all things will be made clear.

[Meat]

Hmmm...considering what day it is, it's hard to tell if you're being serious!

If you're *forced* to read Byrne's upcoming retcon of the Doom Patrol, then yeah, this story will probably be a good introduction.

Why anyone would *want* to read a story that wipes out decades of history for no apparent reason (and unlike the Crisis for Wonder Woman, no apparent cause) is something I won't be able to underrstand.

Anyway, it's time to stop buying JLA out of habit. This arc will be one of the few arcs from *any* series I'll drop mid stream.

I don't know who the minority is here, but it's certainly not my cup of tea.

[Alpha Dog]

As my mother used to say, "there are some questions that, if you have to ask them, you have your answer."

Yes, you are in the minority.

[Ignatz_Mouse]

I like it, with some serious reservations.

1) I like the art. Byrne isn't phoning this one in, like he sometimes does.

2) I like the idea of a new Doom Patrol. I've never been big on continuity, and the team could use a fresh start. I don't care for Larry's characterization so far.

I don't particularly like Crucifer, and the storyline does seem a little forced. We'll see if it gets better.

[supermangl1]

I agree with Mouse, he seems forced to get Doom Patrol over. The JLA gets their butts handed to them, but Doom Patrol is on the case:ermm: ...... Well it is better then the last arc, it was horrible. I think the Bats is acting. Otherwise this could a rough couple issues, GL's willpower gives out. That one made me sad.

[4AD_Punk]

Originally posted by Yeti
Batman prepared for a possible invasion of Vampires that were vanquished to the 10th circle of hell several thousand years ago? He prepares for everything but isn't that a bit of a stretch? Really.


You really shouldn't be so snide; especially when you misinterpret what I was referring to. I was alluding to when Batman is shot with a handgun in the alley by the police detective; that he should have been prepared for. Really.

[GroovyBoy]

Well, in retrospect, don't you think your reference was incredibly vague? Considering you were the one that brought up criticism of the plot, yet didn't provide much content, should you be taking this tone with your post? Really...

[EVIL CAP]

Batman is a genius detective character that outwits people like the Joker protects Gotham city and can hang with the JLAbased on his genius and planning ability.He should NOT have plans to stop 8000 babalonian demon armiies or invisable sattelites with Proton cannons waiting for World eatting Cosmic beings with the the controls in his belt always onhand

Logical well-written Batman>Anti-anything spray Batman>"Im so angsty and cool it lets me outwit god" Batman

[4AD_Punk]

Originally posted by GroovyBoy
Well, in retrospect, don't you think your reference was incredibly vague? Considering you were the one that brought up criticism of the plot, yet didn't provide much content, should you be taking this tone with your post? Really...

Dude, you need to calm down.

Yes, my initial post was vague. I can understand the extrapolation by Yeti. However, he does not need to adopt a superior or elitist tone, that I inferred. However, maybe it was not intentional on his part. I'm not trying to start mediocre Internet fights.

In the initial post, I was attempting not to spoil anything for people who may have missed reading the latest issue of JLA. Therefore, when I mentioned Batman and the latest issue, I thought people would infer Bruce's getting shot by a hand-gun in the alley because that is the cliffhanger, the way the issue ends.

Nonetheless, thanks for your interjections and two-cents. I think a bad trader thread is calling for your attention next. Really.

[Grinner]

Originally posted by Ignatz_Mouse
2) I like the idea of a new Doom Patrol. I've never been big on continuity, and the team could use a fresh start. I don't care for Larry's characterization so far.

I might like the idea of a new Doom Patrol if it didn't mean that John Byrne is insert expletive here up yet another of my beloved Titans :angry: :mad:

Not bad enough that he turned Donna into Diana's mystic clone and had the whole "endless rebirth" thing. Now he's completely destroying Garfield "Changeling/Beast Boy" Logan's past, as well as seriously messing with Titans history as well.

You are right - Byrne's artwork looks better than it has in a long time. Of course, the question is did Byrne put more effort into it or are Ordway's inks making Byrne look better?

[GroovyBoy]

Originally posted by 4AD_Punk
Dude, you need to calm down.



Bro, I need to calm down? Hey, who's getting all defensive and throwing around accusations of snotty tones and snippy attitudes (all in derisive delivery, I might add)? I was just pointing out (or, as you put it, interjecting) possible causes for the breakdown in communication while adopting the stylistic ending of his and your posts. To relax, may I suggest you turn away from the edgier 4AD selections and give the Cocteau Twins and Michael Brook a listen or two?

[4AD_Punk]

Originally posted by GroovyBoy
To relax, may I suggest you turn away from the edgier 4AD selections and give the Cocteau Twins and Michael Brook a listen or two?

Kazaa!

Your suggestions are noted.

Although who in their right mind would adopt a moniker of "4AD" without being familiar with Robin Guthrie, Elizabeth Fraser, Simon Raymonde, and Will Heggie?

The Cocteau Twins' Treasure is one of my favorite albums. Not a fan of Head Over Heels. Heaven or Las Vegas is alright. However, they will never top Treasure.

Not a big fan of Michael Brook. Rather, not a fan.

The new Mountain Goats and Blonde Redhead are pretty solid records; 4AD is making a slow and steady revival.

Anyways, the problem with the Internet is people misinterpret intent unless you use stuff like this::) ;) :eek: :mad: :rolleyes: :cool: :p :confused:

[Frongoid]

Originally posted by 4AD_Punk
You really shouldn't be so snide; especially when you misinterpret what I was referring to. I was alluding to when Batman is shot with a handgun in the alley by the police detective; that he should have been prepared for. Really. What makes you think he was really shot? No matter what you may think of them, Claremont & Byrne aren't amateurs. There's a reason this all happened in the last two panels.

It also wouldn't be the first time Batman faked his own death to put an adversary off guard.



Originally posted by Meat
Why anyone would *want* to read a story that wipes out decades of history for no apparent reason (and unlike the Crisis for Wonder Woman, no apparent cause) is something I won't be able to understand.

You mean like Man of Steel, Superman: Birthright, Batman: Year One, the Weisinger years Superman and Batman (nope, Bats & Supes never would and never have killed anyone never, nope lalalalala), silver age Green Lantern, silver age Flash (up until "Flash of Two Worlds" when whiny fanboys succeeded in forcing the creation of all that Earth-2 nonsense), Crisis on Infinite Earths, Zero Hour, Hypertime... blah blah blah. Get over it. If we were forced into lock-tight continuity, Superman would still have *one* adoptive parent, not be able to fly, and come from a unknown planet in our own solar system.

Oh, and sorry but the Doom Patrol has been so hopelessly screwed up by hacks and respected writers alike that it's going to take a reboot to get anybody interested in them again. The artsy-fartsy crowd may have loooved Morrison's run, but you need more than 20 fans to make a comic successful. "Doom Patrol" is too cool of a name not to have on a comic, but the last two series almost irreparably damaged the property.

Beast-Boy? Change his adopted mother's name to Lita and all problems are solved. Current continuity is fixed, and the old stories are still just as good as they ever were.

[4AD_Punk]

Originally posted by Frongoid
What makes you think he was really shot? No matter what you may think of them, Claremont & Byrne aren't amateurs. There's a reason this all happened in the last two panels.

It also wouldn't be the first time Batman faked his own death to put an adversary off guard.


I hope you're right. It looked like he was tagged pretty good. I can't recall, but I think there is a panel where it appears the bullet exits his body.

[Frongoid]

Originally posted by 4AD_Punk
I hope you're right. It looked like he was tagged pretty good. I can't recall, but I think there is a panel where it appears the bullet exits his body. It exits the back of his cape. There was no blood.

[Grinner]

Originally posted by Frongoid
Beast-Boy? Change his adopted mother's name to Lita and all problems are solved. Current continuity is fixed, and the old stories are still just as good as they ever were.

I'm guessing you didn't read the Titans? :cheeky:

Just how many problems that aren't solved by "Lita" do you want?

[Frongoid]

Originally posted by Grinner
I'm guessing you didn't read the Titans? :cheeky:

Just how many problems that aren't solved by "Lita" do you want?

No, changing it to "Lita" is a sop, and like I said, a current continuity fix. It allows the comic writers to write the current Beast-Boy as having a super-powered father who went crazy without him having to have been linked to the DP. It's one possible fix, but I doubt it'll even be the one used. Geoff Johns and John Byrne are supposedly putting their heads together to fix Beast Boy. Between the two, I imagine they'll come up with something better than the simple letter change I suggested.

Anyways, who cares about reconciling a half-dozne stories that have all been rendered out-of-continuity by a dozen other stories since?