View Full Version : hey Hal Jordan fans <spoiler>.....
skinnykid71
04/13/2004, 20:18
you should check out the cover of Identity Crisis #2.
Cliff Stockton
04/13/2004, 20:20
Haven't even seen the cover for issue #1 yet!
skinnykid71
04/13/2004, 20:25
comicscontinuum.com
in mondays stories they have the new DC solicitations.
Cliff Stockton
04/13/2004, 20:29
cool! Thanks!
Cliff Stockton
04/13/2004, 20:45
Hmm... my thoughts on that cover.
Looks cool. There are some big things on the horizon for the GL Corps and the Guardians. It's been hinted at for months now in the GL title.
That being said...
That line-up and looking at Flash's, Black Canary's and Zatanna's costumes may be a hint that it is from a pre-Crisis event. Definitely the "satelite era" Leaguers.
Just a thought. Who knows 'til we read it!
Can't wait regardless.
Um so?
It kinda looks like Hal on the cover. He doesn't have the white "Reed Richards" strips in his hair. It could be Kyle ... could be.
I'm a fan of Hal but bringing him back would be a major step back to me. Kyle has now been the GL for a good 125 comics. And that's just the GL series not to mention the JLA and other spots he's shown up.
I mean I know people out there loved Barry Allen... but honestly, would you be happy to find out that Wally died and Barry magically time teleported back?
Comic companies in general aren't always be best at keeping heroes or villians dead. But when a hero makes an amazing sacrifice for the greater good... his coming back lessens that.
If Barry came back, it would negate his sacrifice during Crisis.
If Hal came back, it would negate his death defeating the Sun-Eater.
And here's a thought. What if the person on the cover is Spectre using his more "familiar" form of Hal.
don't be so prepared to kill the newbies ... ten year old ones at that.
Cliff Stockton
04/13/2004, 20:50
Plus Hawkman's harness is from then and not now...
skinnykid71
04/14/2004, 00:17
all good points.
all i know is that i'd love to see Canary and Zatanna join up for an all fishnets comic.
all they would do is walk around.....
in fishnets.
4AD_Punk
04/14/2004, 00:54
Originally posted by Supes
don't be so prepared to kill the newbies ... ten year old ones at that.
Kazaa!
Well said.
Parallax Child
04/15/2004, 13:00
after ten years, when most people are disliking a character...GET RID OF HIM!
D.C. treated Barry and Hal totally different when it came to getting rid of them. Barry died honorably in Crisis and was replaced by a character who had been around forever in the D.C. universe, Wally West. Hal, on the other hand, got shafted in D.C.'s attempt to appeal to younger fans. I understand people out there like Kyle. I don't hate him, I read the comic, I just miss Hal. I would think a clever writer could come up with some way the two could co-exist in the D.C. Universe.
Originally posted by Parallax Child
after ten years, when most people are disliking a character...
I think this statement might actually be true if 'most' actually was the term for a minority rather than a majority.
While a lot of people miss Hal, a lot of other people don't. Lots of people like Hal as the Spectre. Lots of people like Kyle. Lots of people reading comics nowadays can't remember the time when Kyle wasn't the Green Lantern and Hal wasn't either Parallax or the Spectre.
Personally, I don't mind what they did with Hal. I don't think they ruined the character. I think they developed him. I think they allowed him to progress in a way that simply wasn't possible as long as he was just plain ol' Hal, the Green Lantern and protector of Coast City.
I'd probably drop the comic altogether if they killed off Kyle in some lame attempt to bring Hal back and 'right' things they did that hacked off fans more than a decade ago. And, I'm sure a lot of other newer Green Lantern fans would do likewise.
Hal isn't the Green Lantern anymore. Get over it. Move on.
double kudos to that.
Think about it. Who should wear a ring that does most anything you think of? A test pilot hot shot... or a freakin' artist?
Hal had been GL longer than Barry was the Flash what they did with him was creative and ultimately you are left with a guy who can show up all the time. He's the Spectre. Forget Coast City he protects the entire earth and beyond now. You'd have to admit that this is the first Spectre that a majority of people actually care about and can connect and understand his human half.
And now I will make a profound statement for a Superman fan. If DC decided that Superman has gone his course and killed him off for good, leaving Kon-El to take his place and it was done well... I'd accept it. I'm a bigger fan of Superman than Jerry Seinfeld (just without the money to actually star in a commercial with him) and if Superman was lost to us... I would accept it. It's their creation to do with as they see fit.
Besides at least they gave the ring to someone worthwhile... I mean the current GL could be Mr. Bowlcut with an Attitude "Guy Gardner" Look at the way it could have gone and relax.
On the original subject I think Identity Crisis #2 is focusing on the past of the heroes ... thus the older looking costumes.
RookieBatman
04/15/2004, 20:18
I must start this by saying that I'm not the hugest GL fan (I'm the hugest Batman fan, that's all), so please go light on the flames despite what I'm about to say.
Here's what I think. I think the difference between Hal Jordan and Kyle Raynor is the color of their hair. I think they're exactly the same. The reason people read Green Lantern, I believe, is for the ring-jockeying. It's a cool superpower. That's why I read it. And, I mean, you can do things like give Kyle a different job, and a gay assistant, and a green girlfriend, but when he gets "behind the wheel," he essentially just the same as Hal (except for that massive power spike he had a while back).
As an aspiring writer, I've often encountered the trouble of wanting to build up a character, but ended up just being caught up in the action and fight scenes instead. I think that's what happens in Green Lantern. There are some Lanterns, like Guy and Kilowog, that are really different even with the ring, but when it comes down to it, Kyle and Hal both just fight the archetype of square-jawed, basically all-American hero.
What I'm trying to say is, to me it doesn't matter between Kyle and Hal. I actually think the whole Parallax thing, though a shallow attempt to appeal to the young, was fairly well-written. When I read Emerald Twilight and Final Night, it actually made pretty good sense, not like some DC stories that were born of editorial decisions. But for all the difference it makes, Hal could've died his hair, got a new job and costume, and changed his name to Kyle Raynor.
Cliff Stockton
04/15/2004, 23:08
I miss Hal Jordan as a GL. Kyle is cool too. Either way I like 'em both. Hopefully something big will happen soon and the Corps will be back. You can never have enough GLs!
I do however have a special fondness for the older heroes.
I like how they've brought back Green Arrow and Hawkman into the DC Universe. Plus, seeing the original Hourman in the current JSA is pretty cool too! It would be nice if they found a GOOD way in a GOOD story to bring Hal back too.
I don't like the Spectre's "I used to be a GL so I can look like this" look. Maybe that will change if Hal is brought back into the world of the living like Kilowog was.
There are things going on in the current GL book that might have a pretty interesting resolution soon.
I still think that cover is referring to an earlier time about events that happened when the 'old guard' was still around in the JLA. Who knows?
Yeah, on the original topic, I would think the cover reflects an earlier time period. Fun still seeing Hal in stories like this as well. If you want to see a difference in characterization between Hal and Kyle, you might want to check out the JLA/Avengers storline as well as D.C. New Frontier. I don't think these guys are interchangeable when in the hands of a good writer. And believe me, I'm not staying up nights worrying about whether Hal Jordan will ever be brought back as Green Lantern. Am I a fan of him --- yes. But there is nothing I need to "get over." D.C. will do what it wants in this regard if it makes good business sense. If the sales would be there for two books - - - you have to believe Kyle and Hal would each find themselves in a monthly title. If it doesn't happen, I'll just keep reading Kyle. I just wish D.C. could persuade someone like Geoff Johns to run with this book for a 12 issue stint.
Parallax Child
04/16/2004, 09:47
Originally posted by JacinB
I think this statement might actually be true if 'most' actually was the term for a minority rather than a majority.
While a lot of people miss Hal, a lot of other people don't. Lots of people like Hal as the Spectre. Lots of people like Kyle. Lots of people reading comics nowadays can't remember the time when Kyle wasn't the Green Lantern and Hal wasn't either Parallax or the Spectre.
Personally, I don't mind what they did with Hal. I don't think they ruined the character. I think they developed him. I think they allowed him to progress in a way that simply wasn't possible as long as he was just plain ol' Hal, the Green Lantern and protector of Coast City.
I'd probably drop the comic altogether if they killed off Kyle in some lame attempt to bring Hal back and 'right' things they did that hacked off fans more than a decade ago. And, I'm sure a lot of other newer Green Lantern fans would do likewise.
Hal isn't the Green Lantern anymore. Get over it. Move on.
You know, I don't think I have ever read any posts by you where you are pleasant. Kyle stinks, as does the comic ever since he has been GL. Look at the sales. Get over that.
Originally posted by Parallax Child
You know, I don't think I have ever read any posts by you where you are pleasant.
Maybe you're not looking hard enough.
Kyle stinks, as does the comic ever since he has been GL. Look at the sales. Get over that.
What? Comics with Hal in them never sold poorly? That's funny, because that's not how I remember it.
I seem to remember some time ago, back in the old days when Hal was GL, that they had to put Green Arrow on the comic for a while to make the comic relevent and get people to buy it.
And, then, when that didn't work and sales continued to drop, the comic went on hiatus for a couple of years.
And, when it came back, we were treated to marvelous John Stewart and Guy Gardner in yet another attempt to 'update' the comic and get sales up to where they should be.
Yeah, you're right, it's only sucked since Kyle came on ...
Originally posted by Speedy
D.C. treated Barry and Hal totally different when it came to getting rid of them. Barry died honorably in Crisis and was replaced by a character who had been around forever in the D.C. universe, Wally West. Hal, on the other hand, got shafted in D.C.'s attempt to appeal to younger fans. I understand people out there like Kyle. I don't hate him, I read the comic, I just miss Hal. I would think a clever writer could come up with some way the two could co-exist in the D.C. Universe.
Hey.... just stick Jordan out in space and use Kyle on earth..... don't think that would work.... still not sure how Stewart and Raynor can both be in the same sector when it seems to me there aren't enough GL's to go around as it is....
Way to have my back JacinB
I try to be pleasant... I really do. :classic: See?
Just find it tiring that people whine about things like "I want Hal back"
You know why? In an age where DC makes fun of itself for not letting its characters stay dead ... and the same age that a majority of characters fart in the general direction of DC for the reason of them not leaving the characters they kill stay dead ... why bring Hal back?
You'll ultimately show that no matter happens, whine until you get your way.
Me? I'm taking the comics as they come at me. The good, the bad, and the ugly.
Oh yes. And if you want pleasant ... go watch Barney.
Personally, I didn't start reading GL until Kyle stepped up to the plate.... of course my nick isn't directly linked to a particulare character either.... :laugh:
What is it with the word 'Crisis' and the slogan 'shake the DC universe to its core'.... or 'change everything you ever thought you knew about your favourite characters....'
Doesn't it stand that if they're my favourite characters, I like the way they are?
I wouldn't dream of complaining about a comic before I read it, but the logic escapes me at the moment.....
Parallax Child
04/16/2004, 11:29
"If you died today, where would you end up? Heaven or Hell?"
Where indeed?
I have no idea who D.C. is focusing on in Identity Crisis. Has there been any word on who might be the main target of the storyline???
Well, in changing a favorite character I guess they are hoping that they'll move the character forward while maintaining what you like about the character.
Doesn't matter. I guess Coke is to blame for all this. My reasoning? Glad you asked.
Coke infamously decided to change it's formula a while back and put out... New Coke. The people hated it and then the company brought back... Old Coke. Sales were going down, took a dive, then went back higher than before and stayed relatively high.
This taught every business person in the industry that if you have a product that is losing popularity... if you remind them what they liked about it (by taking it away) then when you bring it back they will not take the product for granted anymore.
Kinda like when they decided to turn superman into the Electric S dude. When he came back the sales got better and in comics the continuity over (JLA especially) felt the benefits of having Superman classic back.
So really, just ride out the tough times and you will be rewarded. It's only so long until another writer/artist combo comes along and "shakes a character to its core" right back to where they were in the first place.
Originally posted by Supes
Well, in changing a favorite character I guess they are hoping that they'll move the character forward while maintaining what you like about the character.
Oh I realize this.... I know its all marketing.
I just have a hard time taking lines like...'It will change everything you THOUGHT you knew about these characters.'
What, Bruce Wayne is actually a woman? The Joker's a force for good in Gotham and all of his mayhem has actually been a ploy to make sure his main apprentice (Batman of course) stays on his toes? Superman's actually from New Jersey, and his only real power is an astounding fashion sense?
And my all time favourite: They're actually planning on closing the DC offices and are using ID Crisis as a way to explain getting rid of all these characters. The last frame will have Joe Shuster and Bob Kane waking up and saying, 'Man, what a wierd dream....' like at the end of Newhart.....
Oh I know...
So two phrases we never want to hear again (from over use)
-Will change everything you thought you knew about the character
-'Nuff said.
My tone probably sounds more ranting than I meant it too... I'm just having fun coming up with possible 'shocking revelations...' :laugh:
Lightshear
04/16/2004, 17:25
Quick note: That IS the Satellite era JLA, as the Author has stated publicly that the origins of the new "crisis" come from something that happened to the JLA during this time. Issue #2 is likely a flashback of some sort to flesh out the beginnings of this latest ground-shaking event (note: sarcasm).
Second thing: Not only are the Kyle fans not interested in a return of Hal-as-GL, I'd say a lot of Hal fans that I've talked to/read ports from/heard from have ALSO expressed worry over what would happen if they just put him back where he started. So, yeah. Very small minority that ache for Hal to get a mulligan with the Corps. Other than that, most of the relevant stuff has been said by others here quite well enough, so I'll leave it at that.
Hmmm, well being a long term JLA reader and from what I heard, someone close and dear to the heroes gets offed. One of the most monumental betrayals to the JLA was Snapper Carr betraying the JLA to the Joker. Sure he did not know it was the Joker at the time but he felt he let the JLA down pretty hard and quit as their "official mascot". Unknown to him the JLA felt that they let him down and put too much responsibility on his shoulders. It seems that this could be the moment that the Leaguers are thinking about, in reference to Snappers possible death. Other canidates are Ralph's wife, Sue, Lois, Alfred, Linda Park-West, and so on you get the idea.
As for Hal returning it is anyone's guess. I started a thread like this late last year and received a couple of warnings for it. At any rate Hal doesn't deserve to be a GL again and DC would be daft to think of any story that could be believable as well. I don't know where Hal fans get the idea where he was the best/greatest GL ever, IMHO he was the whinniest! Sure Kyle has had his bouts but Hal being around longer has whined the most compared to Kyle's shorter stint.
At least Kyle was never a criminal, murderer, or a pedophile.
We will see what happens with the Spectre in the current Redemption Lost storyline, happening in JSA. As for Ron Marz returning to GL here soon, I doubt he will bring back Hal until Geoff releases him or turns Hal back into a mortal.
I have an idea...cancel the GL comic. That way, when he is only in JLA, the sales for that comic are boosted tremendously. DC would make more money on increased sales of JLA while taking away the costs of producing GL, and then everyone whining about hal needing to come back could just be queit and appreciate the fact that they have a GL period
The Red Raider
04/19/2004, 16:26
first: yes, Much of Identity Crisis revolves around the Satellite era League, and events that happened during that time.
Second: I lik Hal. I like Kyle.
But Hal had his time... and it goes with the nature of the character, there was never meant to be any one single person as GL. Even now, the corps is slowly rebuilding. There are certain characters you cannot replace... Clark... Bruce... but, Hal wasn't one of them.
If Hal returns... it can undermine the character. And then you have the Kyle fans complaining. there is no clear cut way to do it.
But, the rumors are VERY strong he'll be back.
4AD_Punk
04/20/2004, 03:11
Originally posted by farmer
I have an idea...cancel the GL comic.
Dude, bad idea.
Ron Marz is coming back. Granted, he's not my favorite writer, but he's better than Raab. It will be interesting to read what he does with Kyle.
And to echo others who have already posted on this thread:
I like both Hal and Kyle.
:)
skyounkin
04/20/2004, 03:27
Originally posted by 4AD_Punk
Dude, bad idea.
Ron Marz is coming back. Granted, he's not my favorite writer, but he's better than Raab. It will be interesting to read what he does with Kyle.
And to echo others who have already posted on this thread:
I like both Hal and Kyle.
:)
I never really got into the GL comic until Kyle, so I am really biased, but I don't think Raab is that bad of a writer, I think he was just given a raw deal until Marz comes back to the book-basically seemed like "keep Kyle in space until we have a marz is on the book....."
BUT echo, echo I do like both Kyle and Hal, but I do like Kyle more........;)
green_knight
04/20/2004, 03:38
Kyle's a good kid. He'd make a good sidekick for Hal, perhaps as a ward.
4AD_Punk
04/20/2004, 04:17
Originally posted by green_knight
Kyle's a good kid. He'd make a good sidekick for Hal, perhaps as a ward.
:ermm:
Originally posted by green_knight
Kyle's a good kid. He'd make a good sidekick for Hal, perhaps as a ward.
lol.... how hard are you trying to be offensive? :laugh:
I'm looking forward to the new 'Homecoming' run. From the interview I've read, I really doubt they'd bring Hal back, at least until after that arc.
darkkrisp
04/20/2004, 09:59
I was never a fan of Green Lanterns. How could you take serious some of those ones that looked like pieces of lint, vegtables, and just random stuff it seemed like they were really reaching for the GL corps. I hope we never see them again. I did like Kyle as he did some really cool things with his ring. As for Hal the guy had the most powerfull weapon in the DCU that is only limited by his imagination and he fought people with a giant boxing glove or a boot? Thats using the head. It would be funny for plasticman to do stuff like this but not a test pilot. The league is getting hammered this calls for a giant glove. Couldn't he have at least made a giant towel and snapped people?
Originally posted by darkkrisp
I was never a fan of Green Lanterns. How could you take serious some of those ones that looked like pieces of lint, vegtables, and just random stuff it seemed like they were really reaching for the GL corps...
The later stories that I've seen (all being post-crisis) use the more serious GL's (the ones that look like Starwars/Startrek aliens). Even the Justice League cartoon did a decent job of sticking with mostly humanoids... but your right... a giant ring wielding carrot or celery just doesn't do it for me.
I'm like you in that Kyle's my favourite GL due to his imagination. Being an artist is a real good starting point for the character. I'm guessing the legacy of Hal is a bit overshadowed by DC's dorky days, that are still remembered for the unlimited power of pre-crisis Superman, or the cheesiness of the 60's Batman.
Which is why people should not consider pre-crisis as anything but a shadow of a time period when comics were struggling. All of those corny gimmicks and super pets were all spawned out of trying to breathe life into the comic industry. Heck if there is one thing DC can be thankful for it's that Marvel came along and gave it competition and both companies were allowed to grow.
But Post-Crisis is a true statement of how DC is moving.
Snapper Carr should never be the subject of anything ever again. It was barely cute when the cartoon JL made him be the reporter that reported their events. As long as he doesn't start snapping his dumb fingers again.
I honestly feel that it will be Firestorm who gets the ax. The preview in Wizard mentions that they'll "send in Firestorm just in case" and we already know there is a new Firestorm (a black guy yet un-named) Firestorm has been around a long time in the JLA and just recently came back in. Plus he was around during the time period that this writer seems to be focusing on (the time period with Hawkman, Elongated Man, and etc) So currently my vote in Firestorm as the one who bites it.
Kyle's a good kid. Better suited to wear the ring. I mean it's a thought powered ring. Need someone who does more than puts up bubbles and boxing gloves. That's like giving a sports car to an old lady who just needs it to get to church every Sunday.
Prof. Aragorn
04/20/2004, 11:59
Haven't you noticed on the cover of Previews or advertisements for it? It's a coffin of mostly anyone in the JLA-Batman, Superman, Wonderwoman, Hawkman, Black Canary, Flash, all except one--
the Martian Manhunter.
Where is he? I'm not saying he's dead or anything or will be, but I thought I'd like to bring it up.
Hatut Zeraze
04/20/2004, 14:03
Martian Manhunter didn't hang with the Justice League during most of the satellite era. He had a very long run of unpopularity in which he was essentially ignored by most JLA writers of the time. It's possible that the flashback is looking back at a story taking place during this period.
It's also possible that they are killing off Martian Manhunter. They better not. Unlike when Hal Jordan died, I would actually miss that character.
The truth about Hal and all this discussion for GL is that Hal was and will always be the best green lantern. No matter what Kyle do all in the books we see references to Hal been the truth green lantern.
The "madness" of Hal was a commercial issue. Why they killed Barry and they didnīt kill Hal? Because the already had a major replacement for Barry. For Hal, they tried to make him a bad guy because they didnīt have the courage to kill him. As a Bad guy he can always come back. 100% commercial decision.
And it was the worst decision of all. Kyle can be good as he can, but he will be the guy who replaced the true GL and he never will be able to overcome this.
After saying that, I have to say that I love Hal, but I will be mad if they bring him back. As life, I think that sometimes will happen something that you wonīt like and you have to live with it. This is the way I think about bring Hal back. Heīs done and thereīs nothing you can do right now.
BUT I would ask for a GOOD reason WHY did he become a bad guy. I donīt want him to be GL again, but I would like to see the truth behind his madness. Maybe his was controlled, it was a divine plane to make him the spectre Anything!. What I can't accept (me and all other GL fans) it that the man that had the most powerfull willpower in the world (in the universe) simple turn in mad. I donīt buy it. Itīs like saying the Superman is manic. Nothing in his complete history gives the hint that he could be a maniac, so one day he simply wakes up liking to kill people? Itīs the same with Hal. He lost everything several times, he hard, he had work his will power all his live, break the limits, survive all the problems he had and one day he went mad? Give me a Break.
Donīt bring Hal back, but please how us that there was much more behind his madness that we know.
Originally posted by Prof. Aragorn
Haven't you noticed on the cover of Previews or advertisements for it? It's a coffin of mostly anyone in the JLA-Batman, Superman, Wonderwoman, Hawkman, Black Canary, Flash, all except one--
the Martian Manhunter.
Where is he? I'm not saying he's dead or anything or will be, but I thought I'd like to bring it up.
I had already noticed that. Also Iīve been hearing rumors about a new martian.. a Female one that would enter the JLA Maybe his gone to make his sex change operation? :confused:
When Hal died, I went to a comic book convention very soon afterwards.
At the convention was Ron Marz and Darryl Banks, Kyle's creators. I asked them, point blank, "Why did you have to kill Hal? I was a huge fan."
Ron Marz: "If 'huge fans' like you would have bought the book, we wouldn't have killed him."
Darryl Banks: "Yeah."
My reply: "#### YOU!"
That meeting has stayed with me all of this time. As far as I'm concerned, Ron Marz can #### off.
HAL, aside from Alan, WILL ALWAYS BE GREEN LANTERN.
As for Hal going mad, with all the stress over the years, and finally loosing all his friends and family, I'm just surprised that the same hasn't to some other heroes.... fine line between genius and madness, and all that... from what I read Hal became so powerful he thought he could be God. The JLA weren't trying to stop him because he was a Jack the Ripper, but because his good intentions became intolerable (trying to change the timeline for Coast City's benefit). But then, I didn't read a lot of those stories. Didn't the Guardians already offer him a power ring, after he'd become Parallax, and before he died?
Originally posted by JGrim
When Hal died, I went to a comic book convention very soon afterwards.
At the convention was Ron Marz and Darryl Banks, Kyle's creators. I asked them, point blank, "Why did you have to kill Hal? I was a huge fan."
Ron Marz: "If 'huge fans' like you would have bought the book, we wouldn't have killed him."
Darryl Banks: "Yeah."
My reply: "#### YOU!"
That meeting has stayed with me all of this time. As far as I'm concerned, Ron Marz can #### off.
HAL, aside from Alan, WILL ALWAYS BE GREEN LANTERN.
If thatīs the answer, time to ask them why HAVENīT they killed Kyle
Originally posted by Dandare
And it was the worst decision of all. Kyle can be good as he can, but he will be the guy who replaced the true GL and he never will be able to overcome this.
That's funny. Wasn't Hal the guy who replaced the 'true' Green Lantern, Alan Scott?
The main reason people think of Hal as the 'true' Green Lantern mainly because he had the ring for so long. Well, Kyle has been the Green Lantern for better than 10 years now. In another decade or so, Kyle will have been the main Green Lantern for an entire generation of readers.
So, when those readers, and the generation that follows them thinks of Green Lantern, they'll think of Kyle (or, because of the Justice League cartoon, John Stewart). Kyle will be the Green Lantern. Not Hal. Hal will be Spectre to them.
And, at that point, all of you 'old-timers' can be wheeling yourselves around the nursing home talking about the good ol' days when Green Lanterns flew their teammates around in big, green bubbles and made big, green boxing gloves instead of creating multi-barreled laser blasters and electron microscopes capable of seeing into several different dimensions while you wait for some overweight intern to get your teeth cleaned so you can put them back in ...
;) :grin:
AlgertMan
04/20/2004, 15:07
Kyle is a pansy
reminds me of peter parker, which is he whos is based on, but with no backbone, pretty much everytime a problem presents itself on earth he goes off crying into space somewhere
Originally posted by JacinB
That's funny. Wasn't Hal the guy who replaced the 'true' Green Lantern, Alan Scott?
The main reason people think of Hal as the 'true' Green Lantern mainly because he had the ring for so long. Well, Kyle has been the Green Lantern for better than 10 years now. In another decade or so, Kyle will have been the main Green Lantern for an entire generation of readers.
And, at that point, all of you 'old-timers' can be wheeling yourselves around the nursing home talking about the good ol' days when Green Lanterns flew their teammates around in big, green bubbles and made big, green boxing gloves instead of creating multi-barreled laser blasters and electron microscopes capable of seeing into several different dimensions while you wait for some overweight intern to get your teeth cleaned so you can put them back in ...
;) :grin:
First, is not the same of true, so simpli because he was the first doenīt meand he is the true GL. But what you said have some truth, after all Alan is more popular than Kyle. Actually I thing that Garder (As GL) is more popular as Kyle...
Nope.. Hal Is the true GL simply because no one is buying the Kyle as GL. At least if Hal had died saving something as Hero we would see that as the end of a Legend and a new start for a new generation. But since they did a lousy job with Hal (first mad, then death the ressurectes as spectre) no one thinks that he really left the place as true GL. This is bad for Hal fans and Kyle fans as Kyle will Never take his place while we all know that they can, somehow, bring Hal back.
Like I said, I donīt want him back, but I want a real end for his history.
Originally posted by Dandare
First, is not the same of true, so simpli because he was the first doenīt meand he is the true GL.
You're right. And simply because someone held the ring and gave it up for whatever reason (ie: retirement, insanity, having it taken away from them, whatever) doesn't make them the true Green Lantern.
You think Hal is the 'true' Green Lantern, because he's what you grew up on. Well, that's all fine and good, but we're only a few years away from a new generation who grew up on Kyle.
Besides, Green Lantern isn't a character, it's a power ring. Anyone who is wearing one of the power rings is a true Green Lantern. It doesn't matter whether it's Hal or Kyle or Kilowog or G'nort or John or Guy (or even, apparently, Terry). They're all GLs as long as they've got that ring on.
It's like Flash. Anyone with the ability to tap into the Speed Force can make a legitimate claim to the name and become part of the 'team'.
There are characters that are different. Superman will only ever be Clark Kent. He can never be replaced. Batman will only ever be Bruce Wayne.
Green Lantern, however, can be whoever is lucky enough to find a power ring. Each and every one of them, while some may be more favored by fans than other, are easily replacable.
Hal Jordan was replaced ten years ago. Kyle is the Green Lantern now. Kyle's been the Green Lantern for ten years, and in ten more years he'll be the character people refer to as the 'true' Green Lantern.
Hal is gone, man. Move on with your life. :)
Cliff Stockton
04/20/2004, 15:33
Looks like we'll just have to wait and see.
Compare two "Legacy" heroes and how DC handled the transition:
Flash: Barry Allen dies a noble Death that saves untold Billions. The mantle of the Flash is passed on to an established and well-liked character with ties to the Flash and a respect for his legacy. Fans rarely clamour for Barry's return, and most who do usually NEVER knock Wally because it was handled the way it was.
Green Lantern: Hal dies like a chump. He saves no one, and on the contrary betrays his established character by killing off untold numbers friends and allies. His replacement is a completely unknown character without ties to Hal. Hal doesn't pass the torch on, as much as this new guy takes it from him by beating him in combat. We are told he's better than Hal, we are told he's a great Green Lantern, it's a long time before we're *shown* any reason to believe this. A noble "Death" is shoehorned into Hal's story to placate fans, and even that is undone by returning the character as the Spectre.
See the difference? Barry had fans like Hal did, but there wasn't the huge uproar because they handled the transition properly and with respect. They used Hal for toilet paper.
I don't dislike the character of Kyle. I just think the way he was forced on us will forever leave a bad taste associated with the character.
Originally posted by rouge2
Compare two "Legacy" heroes and how DC handled the transition:
Flash: Barry Allen dies a noble Death that saves untold Billions. The mantle of the Flash is passed on to an established and well-liked character with ties to the Flash and a respect for his legacy. Fans rarely clamour for Barry's return, and most who do usually NEVER knock Wally because it was handled the way it was.
Green Lantern: Hal dies like a chump. He saves no one, and on the contrary betrays his established character by killing off untold numbers friends and allies. His replacement is a completely unknown character without ties to Hal. Hal doesn't pass the torch on, as much as this new guy takes it from him by beating him in combat. We are told he's better than Hal, we are told he's a great Green Lantern, it's a long time before we're *shown* any reason to believe this. A noble "Death" is shoehorned into Hal's story to placate fans, and even that is undone by returning the character as the Spectre.
See the difference? Barry had fans like Hal did, but there wasn't the huge uproar because they handled the transition properly and with respect. They used Hal for toilet paper.
I don't dislike the character of Kyle. I just think the way he was forced on us will forever leave a bad taste associated with the character.
AMEM Brother!! :cool:
Actually I tried to like to Kyle in the begining because he had some potential. But so far the problems with Kyle is just one: Hal. Every single Kyle fan tell me to move over and to forget because Hal is dead. Than so kyle. In the last 5 LJA book that I have read all have references to Kyle crying about been compared to Hal. The one that havenīt really moved on is Kyle. I recall him with Green arrow, I recall the JLA storyline where WW lace is broken, I recall the sandman storyline, I recall Eon storyline. I even recall a Superman storyline where he took Lois (actually the parasite) to a planet that the "true" GL have showed him (at least this is how it was published in Brazil). ALL this story lines had some references how about Kyle had to prove to himself that he was better that Hal. How can someone so insecure be a GL? Stop crying sister.
I think that Kyle had some potential but since he is a commercial product used to replace what DC though was a "defective" product he have to have Commercial focused storylies. The writers should try to make him more mature. Heīs been the GL for the last 10 years and he still have to prove himself?
The problem with the GL controversy is that it always seems to deteriorate into a Kyle vs. Hal thing. That doesn't have to be the final equation. Alan Scott is still present in the D.C. Universe and very popular in the JSA. D.C. hasn't cancelled the G.L. monthly because of that, have they? I also don't think you have to be an old-timer to like Hal. Anyone who can appreciate Golden Age or Silver Age comics can become attached to those characters. I mean, Alex Ross is a Silver Age fanatic from what I can tell and I don't think he will be eligible for social security any time soon.
I'm a little at a loss on how to respond to the "Hal never used his power ring in the cool ways Kyle does" comments. That is a by-product of the time the comics were written and the writers responsible for the comic. One can only assume if Hal were brought back today, they would update his use of the ring. To blame a character for the writer's imagination or the time the comic was written doesn't fit.
Will Hal ever come back? Who knows. If D.C. can make money off of it, he will. While I would be concerned with how they did this, if it was done properly, why couldn't D.C. just do mini-series featuring Hal every year (to keep the Hal fans happy) and keep Kyle where he is in a G.L. monthly?
Originally posted by Dandare
First, is not the same of true, so simpli because he was the first doenīt meand he is the true GL. But what you said have some truth, after all Alan is more popular than Kyle. Actually I thing that Garder (As GL) is more popular as Kyle...
If that were true, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Gardner, you've GOT to be kidding. The only panel I've ever liked Gardner in is the one where Batman clocks him....
As far as 'greatest GL's' I thought the rank was basically: Hal, then Sinestro, the Kilowog, then everyone else... I'm not talking about my favourite GL's here, just DC's standard proclamation as per the Guardians....
As far as my personal taste, I'd say it would go Kyle, then Kilowog, Hal, Alan and then the rest...
Originally posted by Dandare
ALL this story lines had some references how about Kyle had to prove to himself that he was better that Hal. How can someone so insecure be a GL? Stop crying sister.
I agree. Kyle is a great character independant of any Hal references. I think the writers need to move away from the fan debates (like this one:rolleyes: ) and focus on him a bit more. This is one of the reasons I'm looking forward to the new story arc (hoping it goes this way).
MarkFinn
04/20/2004, 16:40
It's worth mentioning that for every Hal Jordan fan, there's now a Kyle Rayner fan. And please don't reply with "Nuh uh! All of my friends like Hal, so it's got to be that way all over the country!"
I mean, who cares, really? Are Hal Jordan fans despondently sitting around, staring at the walls because they aren't buying comics anymore? Please. You can still be an active Hal Jordan fan without a monthly series. Who here has every single issue of the Silver Age Green Lantern? The Showcase issues? How about the JLA appearances? Yeah, that's what I thought. There's still plenty to consume out there to show your support, to define yourself as THE Hal Jordan fan. You can start with the DC Archives and work your way back from there. And then there's action figures, Slurpee Cups...oh, the list goes on and on.
It's not as if DC hasn't tried to mollify those whining savages. How many times has Hal come back from the dead to save the universe? Jeez, it seems like every year he gets yanked back in time or gets a costume/power upgrade in the hopes that it will satisfy that sticking point of "Hal not getting a hero's death." And the answer from the devoted is always, "Yeah, but..."
For ten years, there's been a clamor over how this all went down. I guarantee you this; if DC had a time machine, they'd certainly do it differently. That's not to say they wouldn't kil Jordan, but they would have finished him off in a different way.
Sales were in the toilet. No one cared. The book was dying. It was a sales gimmick, nothing more. Ironically, all of the people who claimed to be Hal Jordan fans suddenly started picking up the book again and reading it every month, if only to better complain about what they were witnessing. Why on Earth would they torture themselves like that? Doesn't make sense to me.
I say, any "old school" GL fans out there, until you have every single appearance of Hal, you shouldn't complain that you can't read your favorite super hero. Until you've waded through some of the stinko comics in his run, you've got no room to complain.
Mark Finn
Hey Mark Finn,
I DO own a COMPLETE run of Green Lantern from #1 to #224. I think that qualifies me as a fan of Hal Jordan...
Good opinion piece, though...
Originally posted by JGrim
Hey Mark Finn,
I DO own a COMPLETE run of Green Lantern from #1 to #224. I think that qualifies me as a fan of Hal Jordan...
Good opinion piece, though...
So, what you're saying is that you've got less than half of your 'favorite' character's opinions?
Unfortunately, I think you've missed his point. Hal appeared in a lot more comics than just that particular run of Green Lantern (which was Volume 2, by the way).
If you truly want to read more about Hal, maybe you ought to go pick up some of these (extracted from the DCUguide.com):
ACTION COMICS # 350, 365-366, 429, 437, 443-444, 470, 473, 480-481, 483, 489, 514, 527, 583 (cover) 589, 596 (fb), 601-35, 642, 650 (fb)
ACTION COMICS ANN # 3 (Armageddon 2001)
ADVENTURE COMICS # 423, 451, 459-460
ADVENTURES IN THE DC UNIVERSE # 4, 16
ALL-STAR COMICS # 68
AQUAMAN 1st series # 18, 61
AQUAMAN:LEGEND OF... # 1 (fb)
ARMAGEDDON 2001 # 2
ARSENAL # 1 (fb)
ATOM # 8
ATOM, POWER OF THE.. # 8-9
BATMAN PLUS ARSENAL # 1
BATMAN & ROBIN ADVTS # 17 (figure in wax museum)
BLACKHAWK # 228-230
BLASTERS SPECIAL # 1
BLOODBATH # 1-2
BRAVE & THE BOLD, THE # 28-30, 59, 69, 100, 134, 155, 173-174, 181
*BRAVE & THE BOLD, THE: THE FLASH AND GREEN LANTERN # 1-6
CAPTAIN ATOM 3rd series # 24
CHALLENGERS OF THE UNKNOWN # 87
CHASE # 9
CHRISTMAS WITH THE SUPER-HEROES # 1 (reprint of JLA # 110), 2
DAMAGE # 12 (fb - Hal is one of several "genetic fathers" of Damage), 15?
DARK KNIGHT RETURNS, THE # 3 (Elseworlds - mentioned..."Hal went to the stars")
Darkstars # 11-12, 23 (fb), 0 (fb)
DC CHALLENGE # 12
DC COMICS PRESENTS # 6, 26, 43, 71
DC SILVER AGE CLASSICS:
-SHOWCASE # 22 (reprint)
-GL/GA # 76 (reprint)
-THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD # 28 (reprint)
DC SNEAK PREVIEWS
DC SPECIAL # 27
DC SPECIAL SERIES # 1, 6, 26
DC SUPER-STARS # 14
DEATHSTROKE # 13
DETENTION COMICS # 1
ECLIPSO: DARKNESS WITHIN # 2
ECLIPSO # 15
FANBOY # 2
FINAL NIGHT # 3-4
FIRESTORM 2nd series # 66-69, 81, 91 (fb)
Flash Vol. 1 #131, 143, 158, 168, 175, 191, 199, 217-228, 229 (reprint), 230-231, 232 (reprint) 233-235, 237-238, 240-243, 245-246, 258, 275-277, 282-283, 332
FLASH 2nd series # 8, 69-70, 77 (fb), 79, 130 (fb)
FLASH, THE LIFE STORY OF THE...
FLASH: SECRET FILES # 1 (appears as statue in museum)
GENESIS # 3 (fb)
GOLDEN AGE, THE # 4 (Elseworlds - cameo)
GREEN ARROW 2nd series # 19-20, 96. 125 (fb) 136-137
Green Lantern 3rd series # 1-10, 12-13, 16-17, 19-50, 55 (fb), 60-64, 76 (fb), 80 (fb), 81, 82 (statue), 99-106, 110 (fb), 119, 0
GREEN LANTERN ANNUAL # 1-2, 3 (Elseworlds), 4 (Year One)
GREEN LANTERN ARCHIVES # 1
GREEN LANTERN 80 PAGE GIANT # 1
GREEN LANTERN: FEAR ITSELF HC
GREEN LANTERN GALLERY # 1
GREEN LANTERN SECRET FILES # 1
Green Lantern Corps Quarterly #1-2, 4-5, 8 (fb)
GREEN LANTERN:EMERALD DAWN # 1-6
GREEN LANTERN:EMERALD DAWN II # 1-6
GREEN LANTERN GANTHET'S TALE
GREEN LANTERN MOSAIC # 5, 15-18
GREEN LANTERN/SILVER SURFER
GREEN LANTERN SPECIAL # 1-2
GUY GARDNER # 5-7, 11 (clone), 18 (fb), 20-21, 24 (back in time), 25 (pin up), 30, 44, 0 (fb)
GUY GARDNER: REBORN # 1
HACKER FILES, THE # 6
HISTORY OF THE DC UNIVERSE # 2
HAWKMAN (Ostrander series) # 2
HOURMAN # 1 (fb)
INFINITY, INC. # 39 (fb), 50 (fb)
INVASION! # 2-3
JOKER # 7
JLA 3rd series # 9 (fb)
JUSTICE LEAGUE/INTERNATIONAL/AMERICA # 6, 10, 24, 40, 64 (fb), 70, 72-74 (Dr. Destiny's Nightmare), 92 (fb)
JUSTICE LEAGUE AMERICA ANNUAL # 9 (Year One)
JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA GALLERY # 1
JUSTICE LEAGUE EUROPE # 16 (fb), 17, 26 (fb), 39-47, 48 (fb), 49-51, 53-57, 59-61, 68 (fb)
JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA # 1-33, 35-38, 40-42, 44-47, 49-52, 54-56, 59-63, 65, 66, 68, 70-74, 77-83, 86-92, 95-100, 102-115, 117, 119-122, 125-130, 132-133, 135, 137, 139-144, 147-151, 153, 155-176, 179, 182-187, 189-190, 192-195, 197-200, 206, 209-212, 219, 220, 224, 231, 240, 250
JUSTICE LEAGUE QUARTERLY # 3, 5 (fb) 8, 15
JUSTICE LEAGUE SPECTACULAR # 1
JUSTICE LEAGUE TASK FORCE # 16 (fb)
JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA SECRET FILES # 1 (pinup, timeline)
JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA: YEAR ONE mini-series # 1-12
JLA: THE NAIL # 1-3
THE KINGDOM # 2 (in Hypertime)
L.E.G.I.O.N. #47, 57-58
LEGENDS OF THE DC UNIVERSE # 1 (fb), 7-9, 12-13
LSH4 # 45-47 (corpse), 61 (fb)
LIMITED COLLECTOR'S EDITION # C-41
MARTIAN MANHUNTER # 0 (fb)
METAL MEN 1st series # 54-55
MILLENNIUM # 1-8
MR MIRACLE 2nd series # 17
MYSTERY IN SPACE # 75
NEW ADVENTURES OF SUPERBOY # 13
NEW GODS 3rd series # 19
NEW TEEN TITANS 1st series # 4-5
PARALLAX: EMERALD NIGHT # 1
THE PHANTOM ZONE # 2, 4
THE POWER OF SHAZAM # 41
PRIMAL FORCE # 7 (fb)
RED TORNADO # 1 (fb)
SAGA OF THE SWAMP THING # 24
SANDMAN # 2
SECRET SOCIETY OF SUPER-VILLAINS # 2, 5
SECRET SOCIETY OF SUPER-VILLAINS SPECIAL # 1
SECRET ORIGINS 3rd series #7 (Guy Gardner, fb), 22 (The Manhunters, fb), 23 (The Guardians of the Universe, the Floronic Man fb), 27 (Zatanna, fb), 29, 30 (Elongated Man, fb), 32 (Justice League of America, fb), 34 (Rocket Red, fb), 36 (Hal Jordan, Pieface fb), 37 (Doctor Light, fb), 38 (Speedy, fb), 46 (JLA Mountain HQ, fb), 50 (Black Canary)
SECRET ORIGINS ANNUAL # 3 (Teen Titans, fb to TNT # 5)
SERGIO ARAGONES DESTROYS DC # 1
SHOWCASE # 22-24, 100
SHOWCASE 1993 # 12
SHOWCASE 1995 # 8 (fb)
SPEED DEMON # 1 (Amalgram Universe)
SPECTRE # 47 (fb to FINAL NIGHT # 4)
STARMAN # 6, 13, 41-42
STARMAN 2nd series # 36 (fb)
SUICIDE SQUAD # 44
SUPER FRIENDS # 3, 7-9, 25
SUPER POWERS 1st series # 2-3, 5
SUPER POWERS 2nd series # 1, 3, 6
SUPERBOY ANNUAL # 1 (Elseworlds)
SUPERGIRL 2nd series # 20
SUPER-TEAM FAMILY # 12
SUPERMAN/BATMAN: GENERATIONS # 3 (Elseworlds)
SUPERMAN 1st series # 199, 261 (fb) 311-312, 314, 327, 352, 367
SUPERMAN 2nd series # 14, 22 (Pocket Universe) 76, 82-83
SUPERMAN, THE ADVENTURES OF... # 430, 444 (fb, Pocket Universe), 449, 473, 528 (target of bounty hunter), 551 (fb to Parallax Emerald Night)
SUPERMAN, THE ADVENTURES OF... ANNUAL # 6 (Elseworlds)
SUPERMAN'S GIRLFRIEND, LOIS LANE # 74, 128
SUPERMAN'S PAL, JIMMY OLSEN # 151
SUPER-TEAM FAMILY # 12
SUPERMAN: THE DOOMSDAY WARS # 2 (fb)
SUPERMAN: THE MAN OF STEEL # 20, 26
SUPERMAN: THE MAN OF STEEL ANNUAL # 4 (Year One)
SUPERMAN FAMILY # 171-172
SUPERMAN/WONDER WOMAN: WHOM GODS DESTROY # 4 (Elseworlds)
TALES OF THE GREEN LANTERN CORPS # 1-3
TALES OF THE GREEN LANTERN CORPS Annual #2 (cameo, flash forward)
TEEN TITANS 1st series # 25
TIME MASTERS # 7
TRINITY # 1-2
UNLIMITED ACCESS # 1-4
WHO'S WHO '85 #9 (p 24), (p 26-27, GLC entry - mentioned), 12 (p 4-5, JLA entry)
WHO'S WHO '87 #3 (p 2, GLC entry), (p 18-19, Justice League entry)
WHO'S WHO '88 #1 (p 30), (p 31, GLC entry)
WHO'S WHO '90 # 3
WHO'S WHO '93 # 1 (GLC entry)
WONDER WOMAN # 212, 214, 222-223, 291, 300
WONDER WOMAN 2nd series # 13
WORLD'S FINEST COMICS # 184, 189, 199, 201, 246, 250, 255, 274, 300, 302
ZERO HOUR # 4-0
There's a whole lot of comics that sucked in there, and after reading some of them maybe you'll remember why Green Lantern vol. 2 was cancelled in the first place, as well as why they killed Hal off and replaced him with Kyle.
Anyone know when the new GL arc starts? I heard Kyle just got sliced....
Originally posted by mbdeyes
Anyone know when the new GL arc starts? I heard Kyle just got sliced....
Marz starts up in issue #176, which is on sale April 28th.
You know what I love about these debates is nobody knows anything except the people who are staying level headed.
Ok lets think about this.
You have spent the better part of your life fighting for justice with a ring of nearly infinite power. You come back from a mission only to find that some chump has destroyed everybody that you hold dear. You are now left with nothing. Nothing but a ring with nearly infinite power.
So you try to deal with the death of your loved ones by bringing them back. Just to give yourself some inner peace... and the man (Guardians) shut you down and say you can't use the ring for personal gain. So you get really ticked off that for the first time in forever you want something for yourself and these big headed dorks tell you no. Time for them to learn who's boss.
They send wave after wave of your own allies against you and you defeat them one after another. They even recruit your worst enemy (Sinestro) to defeat you. After destroying him you realize there is no way back. So you enter that main battery and gain all the power the Guardians selfishly kept for themselves.
For the record... Hal killed nobody that didn't end up coming back after he became Parallax. He did sacrifice himself to save the entire solar system though... not all of creation like Barry but close enough for us.
You know what really ticks me off is that nobody seems to know the history and yet feel they are qualified to complain about it. They also don't sound like they've read much of Kyle's run and yet ... complain about it.
Look given the choice would you rather Hal have been replaced with Guy again? They took Hal... made him an artist and gave him black hair. Bingo... Kyle.
And what's worse is you have your Hal back in the more powerful form of the Spectre and you complain that he's not "back as a GL"
You know I am sure there is no way that would make Hal fans happy without alienating almost 90% of every comic book fan that exists today. Haven't we had enough heros come back without just totally making death a non-issue?
And Kyle is here to stay. Why else would they bring back the man that put him in place in the first place? Just give it a rest please.
OK...
So forward me the cash I need to COMPLETE my Hal Jordan collection...
Geez guys, I'm only 29. I think having a complete GL run ain't bad for someone my age.
Besdies, I have the Emerald Twilight Issues, plus his fights w/Kyle, plus Zero Hour, plus his death in the Final Night, his tribute, and his rebirth...
So kiss it...
Originally posted by Supes
For the record... Hal killed nobody that didn't end up coming back after he became Parallax. He did sacrifice himself to save the entire solar system though... not all of creation like Barry but close enough for us.
You know what really ticks me off is that nobody seems to know the history and yet feel they are qualified to complain about it. They also don't sound like they've read much of Kyle's run and yet ... complain about it.
This is what's surprised me about those arguing in favour of Hal. I'm a Kyle fan, and haven't read that much of Hal's stuff, so I thought maybe I'd missed something the way they were talking. This sounds closer to the history I know.....
Originally posted by Supes
You know what I love about these debates is nobody knows anything except the people who are staying level headed.
For the record... Hal killed nobody that didn't end up coming back after he became Parallax. He did sacrifice himself to save the entire solar system though... not all of creation like Barry but close enough for us.
You know what really ticks me off is that nobody seems to know the history and yet feel they are qualified to complain about it. They also don't sound like they've read much of Kyle's run and yet ... complain about it.
Believe me.. I KNOW the story. I also know that before the Final night Hal resurrected the Green Arrow, I know that his ring re-created the power battery in OA, I know what happened before and after the Zero hour...
Well you maybe know the story but you donīt really knows what it means. How do you explain that the most powerful GL, the man who is supposed to have the most powerful willpower in the universe simply get mad? OK, so how would you feel if the Kyle simple decide to go to a farm plant potatoes because he realized that he isnīt good enough to use the ring? Simply give up and then you never hear about him again. Or better, he decided, one day to become the second Blue Beetle. Do you think that this will looks like the Kyle that all Kyle fans will like?
So Knowing the story doesnīt mean anything if you donīt know what Hal have done before..
There was one story that someone got his and Garder's ring. Hal simply stood stand concentration. Than, several feet away he started do control the ring that was on other hand. As he explained, it was just a matter of willpower...
No where does it say that Hal has the most powerful will in the universe. Hal hadn't really even faced off vs Sinestro until that last battle. He's human like every other earth hero.
The thing that is kind of strange about the Hal issue is the amount of coverage D.C. is giving the character this year. It doesn't seem as if they want the Hal fans to go anywhere. This July we have Identity Crisis #2 (which has been discussed on this thread); a Green Arrow/Green Lantern Vol. 2 compilation (collecting Adams and Oneal stories); D.C. Comics Presents: Green Lantern (one of those tributes to Julius Schwartz where I think Azzarello is doing a retelling of G.L. #31); and the latest issue of D.C.'s New Frontier (where Hal is a primary character). We also have the current JSA storyline where the Spectre is playing a prominent role. Kurt Busiek also gave Hal a pretty major role in the JLA/Avengers cross-over. There have been a lot of rumours lately about Hal coming back (whether it is true or not I obviously don't know) but D.C. does seem to be marketing the character pretty heavily this year. This may just be D.C. making a good business decision - - - continue to make money off of the Hal fans while not resurrecting the past or could they be testing the waters, who knows. As I said on this thread, I like both Hal and Kyle and don't think killing off Kyle should ever be the answer to this issue. I also don't think there is anything wrong with Hal fans wanting to see him back in action. That is their choice.
skyounkin
04/21/2004, 10:19
I am a die hard Kyle fan! and I would drop the book if they brought back Hal and alienated Kyle.....that said I can see a lot of reasoning for Hal fans to hate Kyle, no not the whole goes nuts and destorys the universe thing.....I am talking about the "Hey everybody Hal is dead and here is this rookie kid......we won't give you a fresh new hero, with new ties to anyone interesting we will just make him friends with hal friends give him Hal's place in the JLA" They should have from the start done something new......
And who ever said no one who Hal murdered didn't come back......uhm, except the whole green lantern corps, or do they not count?.....
;)
Originally posted by skyounkin
I am a die hard Kyle fan! and I would drop the book if they brought back Hal and alienated Kyle)
I can't imagine D.C. would make that mistake twice. They have to realize that there are a lot of Kyle fans out there who would not pick up G.L. every month if he was out of the picture.
RangedCombatEx
04/21/2004, 10:44
GAWD! I wish the whole Hal issue would go away. Ok, his character got shafted when Coast City was destroyed and he lost his mind and Kyle replaced him. It's nearly been a decade, GET OVER IT. It's bad enough that they screwed up th Spectre by making Hal his human host. I'm really sick of DC trying to appease all the biching Hal fans when the fact of the matter is if you all bought the book back then Hal would still be around.
Originally posted by mbdeyes
No where does it say that Hal has the most powerful will in the universe. Hal hadn't really even faced off vs Sinestro until that last battle. He's human like every other earth hero.
Actually I think this had been true Pre-Crisis. The DC RPG (not cannon, I know) lists him with the highest willpower of any known being (including Endless). I'm sure this was addressed in the comics as well (Tales.. maybe). Now, with the Emerald Dawn retconning and whatnot, he may have been seriously downgraded, but at one time he truly had the "greatest willpower".
Continuity-wise, we've now had the two best Green Lanterns go rogue, the last one with catastrophic results. I know it would be silly to wipe out the GL concept altogether, but logically, didn't the Guardians s#### the Manhunter project for far less? Wouldn't they (I always lose track of whether they're still dead or not) now consider power rings a "failed" project as well and move on?
Do you think that "Identity Crisis" might center on Wally and how people dealt with him becoming the Flash after Barry's death...?
SumYungGai
04/21/2004, 15:40
Originally posted by rouge2
Continuity-wise, we've now had the two best Green Lanterns go rogue, the last one with catastrophic results. I know it would be silly to wipe out the GL concept altogether, but logically, didn't the Guardians s#### the Manhunter project for far less? Wouldn't they (I always lose track of whether they're still dead or not) now consider power rings a "failed" project as well and move on?
That's a great point. The Manhunters were shut down because all of the manhunters went rogue. This led the Guardians to appoint "locals" to police their native sectors. Now, two of these appointed agents have gone rogue. One selfishly wanted power for himself and gained help from another agency to destroy the Guardians and the Corps. The second proved willfull enough to steal the emeral energies of the Guardian's for himself.
I don't think the Corps are as great failure as the Manhunters. Two individuals failed, as opposed to the entire group. Logically, the Corps should be made larger, but with less individual power. Perhaps a single Green Lantern for each planet, as opposed to each sector. Each of these planetary Lanterns would have a fraction of the power a current Lantern possesses.
Originally posted by rouge2
Continuity-wise, we've now had the two best Green Lanterns go rogue, the last one with catastrophic results. I know it would be silly to wipe out the GL concept altogether, but logically, didn't the Guardians s#### the Manhunter project for far less? Wouldn't they (I always lose track of whether they're still dead or not) now consider power rings a "failed" project as well and move on?
You would have to answer me wouldn't you?!? :p
What it comes down to, of course, is whether or not DC considers GL a failed project.....
And who ever said no one who Hal murdered didn't come back......uhm, except the whole green lantern corps, or do they not count?.....
What I said is a little hard to understand. I meant that the people he killed when he was parallax ended up coming back (except Extant)
I know these stories. I know the characters behind them. It is understandable for a hero/human like Hal to just lose it. What I see as the problem is a Hal fan can't accept that he's human and can have this kind of flaw. They can't accept that after a string of really really bad instances a person would just snap. I think that if I went home and found that my entire area code was wiped out ... I would go a little nutty. Especially if I had the power that Hal has, had gotten used to it as Hal had, and got rejected some piece of mind... as Hal had.
Like a teenager that lashes out at his parents when they won't let him go out one night... Hal hit an extreme. No hero is perfect. Especially if that hero is just a man. Humans are capable of the greatest great and the lowest low. Hal best represents a hero that lost his way... was found... lost again... and finally found again. He's a believable normal guy. And right now... makes the perfect Spectre. For the first time in my comic book reading history I have a Spectre I can relate to.
And for the record... I think the way they got rid of the Flash (Barry) was silly. Especially now that they have created the Speed Force. You have to do some heady fast talking to explain how Barry just ... ran himself to dust. At least Hal went out in a blaze of glory and is still around... Barry became an empty suit and exists only in time glitches.
I agree with the Flash comments. My buddy lent me the issue, touting it as one of the best books from DC. Man was I disappointed. I must say, I'm not a pre-crisis DC fan anyway.
Parallax Child
04/24/2004, 10:24
it always cracks me up when dorks argue about comics
This from a man who also argued about comics and has a sign on name on a website based around a game of minatures based on comic books saying that he imagines himself to be Hal Jordan's spawn.
Of course, I could assume you are just finding enjoyment from the debate and not looking down in a condescending manner. Since I'm nice I'll assume the first one.
RookieBatman
04/26/2004, 00:36
Supes, what all you said, I agree with you completely. I swear I was gonna say all of that exactly but you got to it first.
I still hold that Hal and Kyle are, in practice, basically the same; I think it comes down to nostalgia and who you grew up with. To illustrate, I'm one of the two people in the whole world who likes Connor Hawke as the Green Arrow better than Oliver Queen. (I think the other one is Chuck Dixon.) The reason is simply that the first Green Arrow story I ever read (Emerald Allies) had Connor in it, and I liked him. His image was forever burned into my mind as the Green Arrow, and nothing Ollie ever offered impressed me enough to replace that original image. (That's also why Batman Forever is my favorite Batman movie.) I think that's why people like Hal or Kyle. "He's the one I grew up with," or "He really impressed me in that one story."
But I will say this. I am a devoted Hal fan, and when I finally got a chance to read Emerald Twilight, well, I thought it made perfect sense. It certainly was an editorial decision, but in doing so, they created one of the most realistic moments in comicbook history. It's been stated so many times that all the things that have happened to Batman should've made him just snap. The same is true not only for the other heroes in DC, but even all the civilians. I just read the Virtue and Vice TPB, and the way they made that worldwide chaos and destruction just a routine thing...prozac must have amazing sales in that universe. If it were the real world, everyone would be a little off-kilter now. And, like Supes said, Hal was just one that had the power to put a bite in his off-kilterness. So, ostracize me if you wish, but my favorite GL is Hal (actually, Kilowog, but Hal's right behind), and I don't have a problem with Parallax. I think they kept him fairly true to the character, even in Zero Hour. That's my opinion.
savagedragon
04/26/2004, 00:47
Money talks. I know Back before the Hal fiasco I was spending over $100 per week on comics. Now, maybe $75 per month on Archives and a few comics after I look through them first to make sure they aren't the garbage most of them have turned into. Looks like I'm not alone in dropping out. Let's see, $4800 per year vs $900 per year. Hmmm. Maybe they just want people to buy comics again. I simply liked reading about Hal. I bought the first 5 or 6 years of Kyle before I finally just couldnt stomach it any more and quit buying them. But he is in good company since I quit buying most comics about 3 or 4 years ago. I still look through them on the rack but I no longer buy them to just bring home and skim through like I was dumb enough to do for way too long.
Lets see how they handle Hal. I could even be back for at least another title or two. I just liked him a lot better.
4AD_Punk
04/26/2004, 00:49
Originally posted by Supes
This from a man who also argued about comics and has a sign on name on a website based around a game of minatures based on comic books saying that he imagines himself to be Hal Jordan's spawn.
:laugh:
So is Hal coming back or not. Actually, I think he is because even Heroclix jumped into the Hal Jordan franchise. Honestly speaking though, I'm more of a Hal fan than Kyle. I think the main reason that Hal Jordan fans want to see him back is to see him being written and drawn by this generation's writers and artists. I believe that its true Hal is not the only Green Lantern since anybody wearing the power ring can actually be him, he is still different very different from Kyle in terms of bearing and how the writers illustrated his charater. He was written as an icon that the GL's aspired to up until his downfall. Unlike Kyle who is full of insecurities and has always most of the time, followed other people's leads than actually taken his own initiatives. I mean, in the JLA, Hal Jordan, I believe is one of the major characters, but I don't see Kyle in JLA as a "major force" being that there were only a few issues wherein he is a key character that forced a win.
Though I'm pretty sure he has done his share of heroism over the years, to me he is just not such an interesting character. Though I think Green Lantern comic books will sell more if they actually focused on all GL's and not just one in particular. They could feature Alan Scott, Kilowog, John Stewart, Kyle Reiner, and eventually Hal Jordan if they do bring him back.
Back to the cover, well I certainly hope that Hal comes back because I am aching to see him be a part of the JLA again (hopefully). I heard he will be back at around issue 190+ or something.
Though I believe that Hal is coming back mainly because even clix is promoting his character. They brought back Supergirl/Kara Zor-El and she's back in Superman/Batman #8 so what's to say Hal ain't coming back. I'm sure that they won't kill off Kyle since he still has his run concurrent to Identity Crisis #1 and the previews made it clear that somebody will die in issue #1 of Identity Crisis, so it should be at least one of the more popular support characters. Which brings us to almost around 50+ of them. ####.
4AD_Punk
04/26/2004, 01:53
Originally posted by Edmond
Back to the cover, well I certainly hope that Hal comes back because I am aching to see him be a part of the JLA again (hopefully). I heard he will be back at around issue 190+ or something.
In regards to the cover of Identity Crisis #2, it is a flashback. The Flash is Barry Allen. Zatanna, Black Canary, and Hawkman are in their old costumes. It's a picture of an incarnation of the Justice League in the past; hence, Hal is on the cover.
Looking at the previews on www.dccomics.com , issue 1 of ID Crisis has the current team and a coffin. The 2nd issue is the one we're arguing about. However, somewhere in the sneak peek synopsis of the two issues (can't remember which one said it) says that they will be delving into the past in order to tell the story... therefor, regardless of whether or not they plan to bring Hal back, it's not going to be through this comic!!!
TheFreak
04/26/2004, 03:03
Supes, all I can say is: THANK YOU!!! Every word you said is true. Hal is a HUMAN (just like BatMAN) He was GL for how long, went through tragedy after tragedy and come out on top. I have NO problem believing that he could snap after seeing his family, friends, neighbors etc etc killed. I mentioned this once, saying anyone could do it, even myself, and someone HERE said I needed counseling. BS. You push someone too much, or take everything away from him, yeah, he could lose it and do things you wouldn't think he'd be capable of doing.
Now, I hope Hal stays gone. He did eventually make a heroic sacrifice. Now or then, he made it. Bring him back to life and it negates that sacrifice. Same reason I don't want to see Colossus return. If you "Give your life to save millions", then come back 6 months later, that is not a sacrifice.
And I'd rather see a "Manga nut with a power ring" (see JLA #2 or 3) than boxing gloves and catcher's mitts.
Oh and rookiebatman, I like Conner Hawke better as well! That makes three of us!
skyounkin
04/26/2004, 03:28
Originally posted by TheFreak
Oh and rookiebatman, I like Conner Hawke better as well! That makes three of us!
Me four!! I like Connor much better than either Roy or Ollie.
I wish actually he stayed in the JLA personally, he fit there. Although I did love the archers quest-
"Let batman keep his kryptonite, when the world is going to heck, Hal made sure I would be ready."
Ollie Queen.
RookieBatman
04/26/2004, 22:56
I guess every character has at least a fair-sized fan base. Who wishes the Blue Beetle showed up more? (Okay, that was totally off-topic.)
Frontman
04/26/2004, 23:07
No no a thousand times no. Let me get this straight. Hal murders millions, and fans still want to see him reclaim the most powerful weapon in the universe?
Guys! Hal's been gone 10 freakin' years. If DC brings him back, its going to be one of the worst decisions they'll ever make. He kills countless people, destroyed the GL corps, and what, all is forgiven? And all the heroes who both stood by him and fought him are now going to forgive all that?
Sorry, I hated Guy Gardner, once he became a complete sleezebag, but I'd prefer him over Hal at this point. Since we're bringing back old characters, bring back Chip, Araisia, Kilowog, and Kama Tui. Hell, bring, Tomar Re and Abin Sur back from the dead, why don't they.
Stupid idea if they go through with it.
The Frontman
Originally posted by Frontman
Guys! Hal's been gone 10 freakin' years. If DC brings him back, its going to be one of the worst decisions they'll ever make. He kills countless people, destroyed the GL corps, and what, all is forgiven? And all the heroes who both stood by him and fought him are now going to forgive all that?...
...Since we're bringing back old characters, bring back Chip, Araisia, Kilowog, and Kama Tui. Hell, bring, Tomar Re and Abin Sur back from the dead, why don't they.
Bad news for you. It's already been done. When he originally came to his senses, he was offered a ring by the guardians (so I'm told) but refused. All was forgiven. This was a bit before he died, apparently.
As for Kilowog.... they did bring him back.... and instead of Abin Sur, it's his son.
Frontman
04/26/2004, 23:38
Well, the guardians have shown poor judgement in the past, so doing the "all is forgiven" move isn't out of character, but at least for Hal to refuse, that gives me hope that the character died a hero.
As far as the others, I was in a fit of rage. I don't want to see a racoon weilding a power ring again. Ever.
:)
The Frontman
I agree with the Racoon thing, but Kilowog is one mean poozer! I'm glad I've got all the GL's from this set except the LE (got Kara instead) and the rookie.... certainly a good start!!
Frontman
04/27/2004, 08:55
You need a rookie? Dude, I got like 9 of them. PM me, I can get one out to you for well, pretty much anything to trade.
The Frontman
I'll let you know after I buy a few more boosters..... I also need a rookie John Stewart! Very sad.
The_Shill
04/27/2004, 09:49
I'm a fan of Hal and here's why:
1. he was one of the first costumed heroes back in the late fifties that brought a resurgence of superhero's into comics. Stan Lee and marvel saw what DC was doing and revitalized superhero comics with Fantastic 4, spider-man etc. before hal and flash it was cowboy comics and carp like that.
2. he has a history behind him as the original man without fear. I really liked gl v.3 1-45 because it developed the character as a little more older, a little more seasoned trying to guide and recruit the next generation of GL's.
I'm not such a fan of Kyle and here's why:
1. he's dc's attempt at "marvelizing" one of their staple characters. Kyle is Peter Parker with a ring instead of a spider bite and that's been done to death.
2. Kyle has more imagination than Hal but if I want to look at manga machines I'll buy a robotech book. Many of his constructs resemble gundam figures, bleh.
3. I really really hated that mask he had, he looks better now.
that's my two cents, do I think kyle should die? No. He could be Hal's sidekick, Kid GL.:devious:
Originally posted by TheFreak
Supes, all I can say is: THANK YOU!!! Every word you said is true. Hal is a HUMAN (just like BatMAN) He was GL for how long, went through tragedy after tragedy and come out on top. I have NO problem believing that he could snap after seeing his family, friends, neighbors etc etc killed. I mentioned this once, saying anyone could do it, even myself, and someone HERE said I needed counseling. BS. You push someone too much, or take everything away from him, yeah, he could lose it and do things you wouldn't think he'd be capable of doing.
Now, I hope Hal stays gone. He did eventually make a heroic sacrifice. Now or then, he made it. Bring him back to life and it negates that sacrifice. Same reason I don't want to see Colossus return. If you "Give your life to save millions", then come back 6 months later, that is not a sacrifice.
And I'd rather see a "Manga nut with a power ring" (see JLA #2 or 3) than boxing gloves and catcher's mitts.
Oh and rookiebatman, I like Conner Hawke better as well! That makes three of us!
OK.. Than how about this
- Batman gives up because he stopped thinking about the dead of his parents. Actually he started therapy
- Super decides that the humanity have to deal with their own problems. 50 millions die from different catastrophes before humanity learn how to defend themselves. Super do nothing.
How would you feel if you see this storyline on comics? Do you will think : "Oh yeah! Batman is human so no matter that he have fought crime for the last 30 years. He can simply give up one day". Do you think that from all that you have read about Batman this will looks like a thing that he would do? Not even in elseworld!
So... this is why you canīt simply said that one day hal simply got mad because he was human. So letīs say that one day superman starts letting people die because heīs human (at least kryptonian human) ...
Well... to counter your points.... (as they are numerous and many)
Hal didn't just give up and go mad... the city which he focused on was GONE. Completely gone. If Superman came in and found that Metropolis and Smallville had both been vaporized in one fell swoop... do you think he'd shrug it off and be like... oh well... New York here I come!
You are comparing apples to oranges here. Batman and Superman giving up over... well nothing doesn't compare to Hal losing it when he finds his entire world (everybody he loves and the city he calls his own) just gone. Gone because he wasn't there to save them. Gone because he was off in space playing volleyball with the carrot GL and the Raccoon GL.
Saying he is human is pointing out that he has feelings and emotions. If you had spent almost your entire adult life trying to save people and one day when your back was turned they all died... just up and died. Wouldn't you go a little nuts? Add that to the fact that he tried to use his ring to recreate them and fell into denial. Thought that if he just wished it enough that they would all be back. The big blue knuckle heads said no-no to the personal gain thing.
Why do I have to keep saying this?
(Sigh) He didn't let people die because he was human. He wanted to use the power he knew existed to bring them back. If he had to plow through all the corps and the guardians themselves to do so... well he did. He's human we are capable of the lowest low and the highest high.
and who cares if Kyles comes off Spiderman? Come on... there are just so many kinds of personalities that are believable and also enjoyable to read. Just because Spiderman is popular doesn't mean that nobody in the wide world of comics can ever have a personality like his. That is asnine. I mean if that's true then Cap America had better stop his whole patriotic boy scout thing... Superman did it better and did it first.
Originally posted by Dandare
- Batman gives up because he stopped thinking about the dead of his parents. Actually he started therapy
Why not comparing it to a similar situation? Like, I dunno, maybe Batman snapping and nearly beating the Joker to death because the Joker killed one of his friends?
That would never happen, would it?
Oh wait, yeah it did ... in Hush. Oh, and then there was the time that he was more than willing to let Joker die at the end of "A Death in the Family" when Joker had just killed Robin.
And he was more than willing to let Comissioner Gordon kill the Joker at the end of the No Man's Land storyline after joker had killed Sarah Essen.
So, yes, even heroes can 'snap'.
Now, take everything I just described the Joker doing, and multiply it by the population of the city that Hal Jordan was supposed to protect. The city that he watched over. Where all of his friends and family lived.
And then, give Hal the power to have everything back (as he did), only to take it all away from him again ... yeah, I can see why he went beserk.
- Super decides that the humanity have to deal with their own problems. 50 millions die from different catastrophes before humanity learn how to defend themselves. Super do nothing.
How would you feel if you see this storyline on comics?
...
So letīs say that one day superman starts letting people die because heīs human (at least kryptonian human) ...
Umm, have you read Kingdom Come? That storyline takes place ten years after Superman decided to do nothing. Ten years after he gave it all up. Ten years after he retreated to the Fortress of Solitude and 'disappeared'.
And, why did he do that? Because the Joker killed Lois.
Again, multiply that by an entire population of your friends and family members and see if you can't put yourself in Hal's shoes.
If I had power to the extent that Hal did, and was denied the ability to use it to change something that I could've possibly prevented? I can see where Hal was coming from.
You'd be suffering from the guilt of not stopping it in the first place. You'd be suffering from the pain of the loss, not once but twice. You'd be suffering from the frustration of not being able to do anything to bring them back ... not because you couldn't do it, but because you weren't allowed to do it.
Yeah, I can see why Hal did what he did ... and I can't honestly say that I'd be much different, given those circumstances.
Cliff Stockton
04/27/2004, 12:19
Please don't go on a rant saying so-and-so is an alien and isn't human when I generalize by saying "human beings".
Human beings are like that. Some people just give up and kill themselves. Others go out and start a shooting spree killing other people before they are killed themselves.
Even the best of people can crack under pressure over time.
But please remember this...
These "people" we're all talking about are fictional. Anything can happen depending on who is writing the story at the time.
I'm on the fence about seeing Hal Jordan come back. I think it just depends on the story and how well it's written. Superman, Jean Grey, Green Arrow, Hawkman, Mr. Spock and countless soap opera characters have come back from the dead. Give me a good story and reason and it might not be such a bad thing.
We will just have to wait and see what DC has in store for him.
Originally posted by The_Shill
I'm a fan of Hal and here's why:
1. he was one of the first costumed heroes back in the late fifties that brought a resurgence of superhero's into comics. Stan Lee and marvel saw what DC was doing and revitalized superhero comics with Fantastic 4, spider-man etc. before hal and flash it was cowboy comics and carp like that.
Actually, according to Stan Lee (in his Kevin Smith interviews) it was the JLA comic that got Marvel thinking about hero teams.
As for Kyle being Peter Parker, Peter has a real guilt neurosis that drives him as hard as Batman's 'vengence turned justice' thing. You know, "With great power comes...." and all that. I've never felt that off of Kyle, even after his original girl was killed.
Originally posted by mbdeyes
As for Kyle being Peter Parker, Peter has a real guilt neurosis that drives him as hard as Batman's 'vengence turned justice' thing. You know, "With great power comes...." and all that. I've never felt that off of Kyle, even after his original girl was killed.
Well, now that Gail Simone is posting here, you could ask her what she thought of that story.
Women in Refrigerators (http://www.the-pantheon.net/wir/)
supermangl1
04/27/2004, 22:46
By the way I just made a thread about this, but it was on newsarama
http://newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12318
that Green Lantern will end at #181 and Hal Jordan will be back as Green Lantern. What does this mean for Kyle? More then likely a big knife in the back......I'm happy for the Hal fans....but for someone like me who started reading GL when Kyle first started, this hurts......
Originally posted by supermangl1
By the way I just made a thread about this, but it was on newsarama
http://newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12318
that Green Lantern will end at #181 and Hal Jordan will be back as Green Lantern. What does this mean for Kyle? More then likely a big knife in the back......I'm happy for the Hal fans....but for someone like me who started reading GL when Kyle first started, this hurts......
I am a really huge Hal fan, but I donīt think it will be good bringing back to be a GL. Like I said before I just want some good reason for what happened. Maybe we can discover that he was controlled. Or maybe we discover that it was all a part of a big plan to make him the new spectre. I think that what DC did was a bad call but now itīs done. They should keep him Spectre.
I would love to see a storyline that he starts to looking for the truth and realize that it was all part of a big "higher" plot to turn him in the spectre. That they would give him the choice of be spectre or to become a GL again. Than he choose to be Spectre, because he realized that even if he was controlled, he canīt become GL again after everything and that now, with all hate and suffering he wonīt be a good GL again...
Ignatz_Mouse
04/28/2004, 10:26
Well, I'm a Hal fan, but I also like Kyle well enough-- so we'll see. If anyone can do justice to the character, it's Johns, though.
I only worry becuase while I like Hal, he was treated badly even before Emerald Twilight (like in Emerald Dawn-- Ugh!) and I worry that this will just be more chance to screw with the character.
Dandare, thanks for the link. The article still keeps you guessing as what D.C. actually has in store for Mr. Jordan. Hal returns with a costume and a ring. Does this mean he will be a GL again or something else?
I don't know that this is definately the death knoll for Kyle. Would D.C. really choose to enrange another set of G.L. fans? You would think their experience with HEAT over the last 10 years or so would give them some pause on how to handle Kyle. I sure hope they find a way to make this work so it satisfies both Hal and Kyle fans. Geoff Johns is certainly one of the best writers imho, so if anyone can pull it off it's him. Does this make Identity Crisis more relevant for Kyle now? Who knows.
Well, they were able to keep John around as a GL without having to kill him off when Kyle came around... We all know there's lots of room in the corps for more GL's.
The bad news for Kyle fans is that there won't be a whole lot of room for plots involving him, or his buddies, regardless of 'how they deal with it'.
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