OK, Weve Got A List Of Characters For Team Tournament 2, Lets Hear From You All.

[DTM]

Lightweights

Daredevil
Richard Dragon
Punisher
Hawkeye
Nightwing
Blue Beetle
Black Canary
Catwoman
Doctor Mid-Nite
Batgirl (Cassandra)
Hitman
Gambit
Nighthawk
Red Skull
Toad
Kingpin
Mr. Terrific
Porcupine
Wildcat (JSA)
Shadowcat
Joker
Black Cat
Bullseye
Taskmaster
Bronze Tiger
Batgirl (Barbara)
Black Panther
Nick Fury
Prometheus
Lady Shiva
Moon Knight
Green Arrow


MW

Wolverine
Blink
Batman
Mr. Fantastic
Archangel
Hourman (Rex Tyler)
Sand
Captain America
Cyclops
Spider-Man
Deathstroke
Iron Fist
Whizzer
Deadpool
Omega Red
Lizard
Dr. Octopus
Karnak
Aquaman
Cyber
Bane
Red Tornado (pre elemental)
Mr. Freeze
Hawkman
Jesse Quick
Booster Gold
Kraven
Human Torch
White Queen
Sabretooth
Cosmic Boy
Deathlok


HW

She Hulk
Thunderbird
Dr. Doom
Rogue
Colossus
Ronan the Accuser
Adam Warlock
Iron Man
Phoenix (pre Dark)
Captain Mar-Vell
Firestorm
Thing
Power Princess
Warbird
Sebastian Shaw
Venom
Flash (Jay)
WonderMan
Steel
Mandarin
Super Skrull
Namor
Sandman
Solomon Grundy
CM3
Invisible Woman
Loki
Crimson Dynamo
Wildfire
Absorbing Man
Atlas
Deaths Head II


SHW

Captain Marvel (DC)
Sentinel
Martian Manhunter
Dr. Strange
Doomsday
Dr. Fate
Despero
Superman
Silver Surfer
Green Lantern (Kyle)
Green Lantern (Hal)
Flash (Wally)
Hyperion
Juggernaut
Exodus
Apocalypse
Hulk
Black Bolt
Wonder Woman
Kurse
Thanos
Gladiator
Orion
Magneto
General Zod
Sinestro
Amazo
Thor
Lobo
Darkseid
Black Adam
Ultron

[DTM]

Feel free to take a look, see if anyone looks out of place, if I ave anyone twice, your general thoughts on the overall list, etc. These battles take place because of us ALL, so lets hear from you and your opinions on this.

[thugit]

I think that the MW class is going to cause a lot of problems. Spiderman is the same wieght class as Batman?

I think a lot of teams are going to get railroaded when their lower level MW goes up against one of the upper level MW.

[CaptainMarvel]

Sentinel? a SHW?

Did I miss somthing here?

[oogie56]

I think it is a very eclectic list. It has lots of different guys, heroes, villians, and those that don't care either way. It looks good to me.
One question about the tourney. Each team will be drawn at random. Will they then be together for the duration, or will those that move on get re-drawn in the next round into new teams. IE-if Punisher, Wolvie, Doom, and Thor win in round one, will they then fight together in round two also, or do they go back into a pot and get into new teams?

[CaptainMarvel]

Originally posted by thugit
I think that the MW class is going to cause a lot of problems. Spiderman is the same wieght class as Batman?

I think a lot of teams are going to get railroaded when their lower level MW goes up against one of the upper level MW.


The problem is the poof. With time to prepare Batman would wipe the floor with Spidey.....I IMO. When he gets nominated people are picturing him at his best.

[thugit]

Originally posted by CaptainMarvel
The problem is the poof. With time to prepare Batman would wipe the floor with Spidey.....I IMO. When he gets nominated people are picturing him at his best.



Maybe. I don't think he would very often, but he could do it if he had to.

[Perfectstorm]

BOO!...no mimic...eh, its ok, its a good list, and he, much liek super adaptoid, would probally end up cuasieng problems.

[DTM]

OK, well Batman, Cap, Wolverine, Deathstroke, etc, have all been upped to the Middle Weights, since while they may have trouble taking Spidey, not that it would be impossible, HE is on the higher end of the MW list. I dont think Cap would have much trouble with Blink, or Batman with Mr Freeze, or Wolverine with the Lizard. Its all about relative power ranges, some are in the high end, some the lower ends.

Also, Sentinel is Alan Scott, one of the most powerful GLs, so Im sure he deserves to be in the SHW.

The teams picked will stay a team for the entire tournament.

Lets keep those thoughts, questions and ideas coming.

[thugit]

I think it's a mistake to put those guys in the MW class. Batman and Cap won't beat Spiderman or Booster Gold in a poof situation, and it will swing the votes too hard to the other side.


You're effectively making a handicap for one team. (Not you specifically, DTM)

[Rando]

1.No way is Emma Frost a medium weight, it was due almost entirely to her and Sebastion Shaw that Hellfire club made it to the semi-finals. Someone who is Marvel's #5 mind controller should not be just a medium weight, she can win many battles single handedly.

2.Kraven should not be a medium weight if Prometheus isn't. Kraven is a strong, smart guy with poisons and hunter stuff. Prometheus has armor, a weapon that can crush steel, can hack into computer systems, do hypnosis while fighting, and produce disorientation without expending any effort, has a dart launcher filled with various toxins and chemicals, most probably lthal, is much smarter than Kraven, and has mental protections so robust that he can apparently resist questioning by the lasso of truth.

3.Isn't Power Princess just Squadron Supreme's Wonder Woman, is there a serious power difference between the two that make PP heavy, while WW is super?

4.How did Venom get into the heavy weights? This guy is not cleared to do battle with the likes of Thing, or Wonder Man, or Vision.

5.Is Loki really just a heavy weight? I"m kinda vague on his powers, but I would think Thor's arch-enemy would be superheavy.

6.I remember Death's Head 2's write up leading me to beleive that he was essentially Ultron only he could also regenerate, I think he should be a superheavy.

7.Who is Kurse?

[CaptainMarvel]

Originally posted by DTM

Also, Sentinel is Alan Scott, one of the most powerful GLs, so Im sure he deserves to be in the SHW.

.

That's why I asked. I didn't know that. Thank you.

[DeonBeast]

Awww... none of my boys made it in. Or Destiny.

Boo. Hiss.

There, I've whined and complained my limit today! :p

[DreadDormammu]

I have a few concerns that I'd like nipped in the bud before we start:

Batgirl (Cassandra) Are we going to all agree ahead of time that she doesn't automatically win any HTH combat 100% of the time?

Shadowcat Why? She can't beat anyone here and none of them can hurt her. Looks like a stalemate fest to me.

Bullseye Are we going to all agree ahead of time that he doesn't automatically kill anyone he throws at?

Sand Too much like Sandman. Many people in this class can't ever hurt him without the element of surprise.

Aquaman Can we decide ahead of time whether the "Mountain" arena has enough water to help Aquaman? Are we talking small stream or raging river here?

Dr. Doom Limited to what's standard in his armor?

Ronan the Accuser May be a Super Heavyweight.

Black Bolt Full voice is or is not allowed? Please decide ahead of time.

Kurse Either Kurse is a HW or Loki is a SHW. No way Kurse is tougher than Loki.

For what it's worth, I don't know the following characters well enough to vote on them: Hitman, Nighthawk, Porcupine, Blink, Cyber, Thunderbird, Power Princess, Wildfire, Atlas, Deaths Head II, Exodus

Who is CM3?

[DTM]

Originally posted by thugit
I think it's a mistake to put those guys in the MW class. Batman and Cap won't beat Spiderman or Booster Gold in a poof situation, and it will swing the votes too hard to the other side.


You're effectively making a handicap for one team. (Not you specifically, DTM)

Well, again, youre picking two of the TOP END MWs for them to battle. Can Cap and Batman beat many others in this MW league? Cyclops, Bane, Mr Freeze, Lizard, Deadpool? yes, I believe they can. Just because Batman and Cap MIGHT not be able to take some of the BEST in this class, but can take 80% of the rest, doesnt mean they should be dropped to the LW, where they could pretty much take them all.

[Q99]

Sentinel? a SHW?

Did I miss somthing here?

As in Alan Scott Sentinel? The guy who's basically a Green Lantern, except his abilities are magic and innate so he can't lose them? That sentinel, as opposed to the metal guys from Marvel? Yea, he's SHW.

---

I'm worried about Doomsday, Thanos, and Darksied. They're virtually a catagory above SHW, and I think they might dominate too much, since all of them regularly take on teams that include other SHWs, even multiple of them, and do alright, even winning.

---

Venom's a heavyweight? I'd thought he'd be Middle, he fits pretty squarely with Spidey and Booster and the like IMO. Moderately high in the catagory, but not even the highest.

---

Lightweights: I question on how much Joker's even capable of doing. Although, I guess with his chemical warfare he's ok, but it seems weird.

Barbara Gordon Batgirl might suffer the same problem Robin did. She's not really near a match to the other LWs.

[DeonBeast]

Loki is definitely SHW. Magic and Asgardian strength? Ug-LEE!

Death's Head 2 is ok as a heavy though... it's when bonded to Baron Von Strucker where he becomes Megasuper heavyweight.

Is this Kurse before or after the Beyonder? If it is after, well, I seriously think Doomsday and Kurse battle would last until well after the planet under their feet went to dust. That would be neat.

And Venom really should be in Spidey's weight class.

IMHO

[Rando]

Shadowcat slipped right by me, she should not be a lightweight either, she can make specific parts of herself intangible and others not, so she can beat any lightweight on the list, infact she can probably beat all of them at once, none can hurt her that I can see.

[DreadDormammu]

I tend to agree that moving the best LW to MW may be a mistake. Batman in particular shouldn't be a MW unless you are just trying to offset that people will vote for him no matter who he is matched against.

I don't think Emma Frost is a HW. In all her appearances up through about X-Men #220, she doesn't mind control much. She is much more of a psychic blast type fighter. She would go down fast too (I assume we are not going with diamond Emma?).

I think I also agree that Kraven is a LW.

[DTM]

OK, well move Kraven down to the LW, and get rid of Shadowcat. (well need a MW to replace her, so lets hear from you)

Power Princess is much weaker than Wonder Woman

Venom BARELY makes the HWs, mostly due to his battles with Superman and Juggernaut.

Kurse is MUCH stronger than Loki. Kurse is essentially twice as powerful as Thor, and I dont see Loki beating Thor all that often without some grand scheme or planning.

No, Im sure Batgirl and Bullseye wont kill everyone they go for, BUT that is all up to US to decide.

Black BOlt, VOICE ALLOWED, why hes a SHW.

Dr. Doom has what his routine standard armor carries, nothing more.

CM3 is Captain Marvel Jr, from DC.

And White Queen, though very powerful, has NO durability of any kind and isnt hard to hurt or KO at all, so Id call her a high end MW personally.

[thugit]

My point is this DTM: If you put Batman or Cap up against Spiderman in a poof scenario, they will likely lose. Most people are going to instantly pair them off by class, and once that's done, the team with Batman or Cap losing to Spidey is immediately at a disadvantage.

Spidey drops Batman, and is now free to help Wonder Woman tag team against the other SHW.

I think the lightweights should be combined with the MW, and then downsized to the top 32. Otherwise, it will be skewed.

[Q99]

Blink, Thunderbird, Wildfire,

Who is CM3?

To answer these three: Blink is Teleporter with super-agility (ala Nightcrawler). She can teleport groups, throw shards that'll teleport 'remotely' (she doesn't have to be with the people being teleported, and can teleport most opponents), and can make small portal (she held a shard in front of her to defend against heat-vision and have it come out right behind her opponent)

Thunderbird's a Horseman of Apocalypse, war specifically. He's really strong and tough, probably a bit below Thing level normally, until he flips and goes into War-Mode, in which case he's really strong and tough, getting into Hulk-levels and going rather berserk.

Wildfire's of the Legion of Superheroes. He's an energy being in a containment suit (which is very tough to breach, taking high-level attacks to destroy), and flies and shoot energy, iirc.

CM3 = Captain Marvel Jr. or Captain Marvel 3 (since Jr isn't very fitting, and Mary Marvel is 'also' a Captain Marvel). Basically Captain Marvel, except less so.

[DTM]

thugit, you keep naming SpiderMan, who is a TOP LEVEL MW, but forget Batman can routinely beat namy other MWs there. Mr Freeze, Bane, Lizard, etc. AND he is BATMAN, hes going to get votes no matter what. Im sorry, but those LWs are just going to demolish most of not all of the LWs, through skill or popularity, and I feel they belong in the MWs, where they fit nicely, with some MWs they can beat, and others they CANT.

[Q99]

Batgirl (Cassandra) Are we going to all agree ahead of time that she doesn't automatically win any HTH combat 100% of the time?


Richard Dragon, Lady Shiva, Captain America, Batman, in that order. Oh, and Bronze Tiger.

Cassandra does not have to worry about winning HtH 100% of the time.

BOO!...no mimic...eh, its ok, its a good list, and he, much liek super adaptoid, would probally end up cuasieng problems.



Hey, should've nominated him. He'd be great for the Heavyweight rankings. Maybe he'd be a good alternate...

[Rando]

"Im not sure how I feel about Batman and Cap, the middle weight division here is a lot weaker than it was in the singles tournamnet, several competitiors got put in heavy. I guess my official opinion on the issue is no comment.

unless you are using her from the like 2-3 issues she was in before she died, or you are considering Exilies standard continuity, then Blink is not a standard continuity character. I think the nominated Thuderbird is the same.

Jesse Quick is a little tough for Medium weights, she can access the speed force and is a pretty good speedster, not as good as Jay or Wally, but significantly better than Bart, she is definently much more dangerous than Whizzer or Quicksilver. On top of that she can have superstrength for short periods of time, and she can fly. She is also very intelligent.

[DreadDormammu]

Originally posted by DTM
Kurse is MUCH stronger than Loki. Kurse is essentially twice as powerful as Thor, and I dont see Loki beating Thor all that often without some grand scheme or planning.Just because Loki usually is a schemer, I think you are ignoring his magical skills. He needs to be up with Strange and Fate IMO.
Originally posted by thugit
My point is this DTM: If you put Batman or Cap up against Spiderman in a poof scenario, they will likely lose.Actually, Spidey is weak against highly skillful opponents. I don't know that I would give him better than 50/50 odds against either of these guys. This is one of those fights where Cap's shield is more useful than Bats' gadgets and I might go so far as to say Cap would own Spidey 9 times out of 10.

[DeonBeast]

I nominate Impulse for middleweight. For the fun value.
:grin:

[DreadDormammu]

Originally posted by Rando
Jesse Quick is a little tough for Medium weights, she can access the speed force and is a pretty good speedsterIf I had my druthers, I'd take out anyone with DC-level superspeed and anyone who can become intangible. :noid:

[thedon09]

I'd like to see Professor X. Storm? The list looks pretty good though.

[DTM]

Originally posted by Q99
Thunderbird's a Horseman of Apocalypse, war specifically. He's really strong and tough, probably a bit below Thing level normally, until he flips and goes into War-Mode, in which case he's really strong and tough, getting into Hulk-levels and going rather berserk.

WHOAW....just so were clear, this Thunderbird, being a HW, is NOT the War Mode one. Hed be a SHW then.

Also, while Darkseid, Thanos and Doomsday are STRONG, so are Juggernaut, Ultron, Amazo, Despero, Kurse and many other HIGH END SHWs. Sure theyd crush Wonder Woman and such, but theres enough them for to battle each other to a standstill.

[thugit]

Originally posted by DTM
thugit, you keep naming SpiderMan, who is a TOP LEVEL MW, but forget Batman can routinely beat namy other MWs there. Mr Freeze, Bane, Lizard, etc. AND he is BATMAN, hes going to get votes no matter what. Im sorry, but those LWs are just going to demolish most of not all of the LWs, through skill or popularity, and I feel they belong in the MWs, where they fit nicely, with some MWs they can beat, and others they CANT.



But that's my point exactly. Some people are being put in a class that will cause them to face people they CAN'T beat.

It's at least possible that Batgirl or Wildcat or the Punisher, (well, not the Punisher) could beat Batman or Cap in a poof scenario.

There's no chance that Batman will beat Spidey in a poof scenario.

[Q99]

unless you are using her from the like 2-3 issues she was in before she died, or you are considering Exilies standard continuity, then Blink is not a standard continuity character. I think the nominated Thuderbird is the same.


Yea, but they're cool and not too tricky.

And actually, although Exiles is rather 'off the beaten path', it is directly linked with the standard Marvel world. It doesn't interact with it too much, but it's not just a 'what-if' story (sorta like all the time travelers that are around in the X-men).

[DeonBeast]

I'm still lobbying for Super-Adaptoid for SHW. (Pre-Kubik Super-Adaptoid, of course!)

That and Destiny. As a light weight she would provide a SUPER perk to anyone's team.

*puppy dog eyes*

[thugit]

Man, Wonder Woman gets no respect. ;)


Of all the JLA'ers, she's the one I wouldn't want to piss off. She's the most ferocious. When you add that with her rather substantial super strength, I don't think ANYONE in this tourney would "crush" her.

[DTM]

Almost done with making of the randoming teams, then we can take away and add characters we dont really like, so lets keep hearing from you all.

[oogie56]

But thugit, I thought when DTM proposed this he said that the teams would get time to prepare before each fight. Has that been removed, or did I misunderstand?

Also, DTM, my question about the team set up has not yet been answered, and tht could make a HUGE difference.

[thedon09]

Adam Warlock is only a heavyweight? I've seen him beat Mephisto and Thanos. He should be a super heavyweight. Also, no Storm or Professor X?

[SilverAgeFlash]

yea with the 10 min gettin to know everyone in your group i think batman and cap need to be in MW for leadership purposes alone. And Cap could deffinatly take spiderman.

[DeonBeast]

Originally posted by thugit
Man, Wonder Woman gets no respect. ;)


Of all the JLA'ers, she's the one I wouldn't want to piss off. She's the most ferocious. When you add that with her rather substantial super strength, I don't think ANYONE in this tourney would "crush" her.

Of course you wouldn't want to piss her off... she's HOT!
Hmm... I really need to find a Guy Gardner meets Wonder Woman comic... :p

[Zephyr Dude]

I'd like to nominate either Carnage or Killer Croc for the extra Middleweight slot

[DreadDormammu]

Originally posted by thugit
There's no chance that Batman will beat Spidey in a poof scenario. Kraven gives Spidey trouble... Batman can too. :cheeky:

[Manchine]

I have a question who is more powerful.


Loki or Docter Strange. Both of those are top end scale. I would put Loki just above Docter Strange. If that is the case Docter Strange isnt a super heavy weight!

[Manchine]

PS I would second Killer Croc!

[DTM]

Originally posted by thugit
But that's my point exactly. Some people are being put in a class that will cause them to face people they CAN'T beat.

It's at least possible that Batgirl or Wildcat or the Punisher, (well, not the Punisher) could beat Batman or Cap in a poof scenario.

There's no chance that Batman will beat Spidey in a poof scenario.

Yes, exactly. Thats the idea behind power RANGES. With the 4 classes we have available, and the FAN BASE and COMIC BOOK ICON STATUS behind such characters as Batman, Cap, Wolverine, etc. they below more in the MW.

[DeonBeast]

Originally posted by thedon09
Adam Warlock is only a heavyweight? I've seen him beat Mephisto and Thanos. He should be a super heavyweight. Also, no Storm or Professor X?

I have to agree... kinda. Adam Warlock showed up Galactus in front of Eternity... he deserves a li'l more credit.

But as for beating Thanos, I don't think so... Thanos beat Thanos. Warlock was just there to state what was in Thanos' inner self after the fact. :cool:

[Zephyr Dude]

Originally posted by Manchine
PS I would second Killer Croc!

Right on!

[thugit]

Originally posted by DreadDormammu
Kraven gives Spidey trouble... Batman can too. :cheeky:

Not in a poof scenario.



The cool thing about Batman is that he can keep himself from being killed by super-powered beings, not that he can beat them.


Grant Morrison sucks!

[DTM]

OK, Killer Croc is taking Karvens place as a MW, Kraven took Shadowcats place as a LW.

Loki will be BUMPED to the SHWs, in place of General Zod, who is probably the most Rookie of all the SHW listed. (We now need a HW to replace Loki)

Sorry Oogie, what was your team question?

[oogie56]

As for Adam Worlock, I got two words for ya-Infinity Gauntlet. He ain't got it, he is BARELY a heavy. He is too strong for middle, but he can't beat any of the Supers.

[thedon09]

You may be right on the Thanos thing, but I could've sworn Adam Warlock has beaten him. Regardless of that, he has beat Mephisto, and has gone toe to toe with countless cosmic beings, he's a superheavyweight.

[SilverAgeFlash]

is carnage is HW? if so i recomend him.

[DTM]

Originally posted by thedon09
Adam Warlock is only a heavyweight? I've seen him beat Mephisto and Thanos. He should be a super heavyweight. Also, no Storm or Professor X?

Since he is a HW, and not a SHW, this will be Adam Warlock WITHOUT the Soul Gem.

[JayThor]

SHW- M'onel
HW- Ultraboy
MW- Timber Wolf
LW- Nightwing

[thedon09]

That makes more sense. With the soul gem, it's a different story.

[supermangl1]

Hmmmmm is Killer Croc a true middleweight? I haven't seen many apperiances of Croc in the comics outside of the last arc, which he was NOT shown as a middleweight. Does he have super strength and to what limit and he has thick skin but how tough.

[DTM]

Also, taking off Batrgirl Barbara, need another LW.

[Zephyr Dude]

Originally posted by SilverAgeFlash
is carnage is HW? if so i recomend him.

I would like to second that vote

[DTM]

Also removing Sand, need another MW.

Jesse Quick needs to be moved to the HWs or taken off. What say you?

[Zephyr Dude]

Originally posted by DTM
Also, taking off Batrgirl Barbara, need another LW.

How about Scarecrow?

[SilverAgeFlash]

just think how funny it would be if he was on supermans team.
it would be like the odd couple:laugh:
Carnage and superman friends forever

[supermangl1]

Get rid of Jesse, I like her but not for this tourny.

[DTM]

Originally posted by Zephyr Dude
I would like to second that vote

SOLD, Carnage has replaced loki in the HWs.

[DTM]

OK, I need a LW, and TWO MWs.

Scarecrow (DC) has been suggested for a LW, any thoughts?

I have the TEAMS all ready to go, just need a few replacements and I can post them.

[Q99]

Lightweight? Hmm... Ion?


Or wait, how about Connor Hawke, the other Green Arrow?


Scarecrow's really not much in a fight, by the standards of the others who are in.

[supermangl1]

Good idea, is second the Connor Hawke vote

[DTM]

Good idea, but we already have Hawkeye and Olllie, Ill like to try and get alittle more variety if we could.

[SilverAgeFlash]

heres my dream team right here
punisher
sabertooth
Carnage
superman

lets see him keep the peace in there. Best team work ever.
A serial killer a savage a murderer and a boyscout. Come on
(crosses fingers)

[Q99]

Oooh, Shang-Chi, master of Kung Fu!

I can't believe we forgot him!

*edit* I don't think Connor's that bad, his fighting style is quite a bit different than pops, more so than Ollies is from Hawkeye, and he's more of a martial artist.

Other suggestion: Arsenal, although that suffers the Connor problem.

Maybe Huntress.

[DTM]

Good, Shang Chi works for me.

What about two MWs?

[thedon09]

Storm for middle? I think she might be a low end heavy though. DTM?

[supermangl1]

Why did Sand get dropped? Too powerful for MW yet too weak for HW?

[SilverAgeFlash]

what about beast?

[DTM]

Hmmmm, though she could also be a High End MW, with the lack of durability, like White Queen. Good, Storm is in, now we ned ONE MORE MW.

[Q99]

Hmm... Nocturne? (I know, I know, I love the Exile people)

Cyborg? (Titans Cyborg)

[silverstein]

Deathlok?

[DTM]

Originally posted by supermangl1
Why did Sand get dropped? Too powerful for MW yet too weak for HW?

Kinda yeah. Sorry if you nominated her.

Hmmmm, Beast or Cyborg are good ones, which should it be?

[silverstein]

havok?

[Rando]

Warlock is no way a heavy without his soul gem, he lost to Hercules when he had it. If he used it all the time then he might be a super heavy weight maybe, but without the gem Warlock is essentially Captain Marv-ell without the quantam bands, he is strong, and fast, and can fly, but no way is he cleared to rumble with Rogue. The Mephisto fight Warlock only won to to very specific details about Maphisto and the area they were fighting in (specifially that hades is composed totally of souls, so Warlock was able to manipulate every aspect of it, if Warlock were ot fight someone exactly like Maphisto but with a dofferent power source he would lose hard). Warlock is ptimarily a schemer, in a poof scenario he is certainly not someone you could expect to deliver the damage that Wonder Woman or Superman deliver, and defiently not stuff like doomsday and Despero. Adam loses figths to killer robots and large numbers of generic trolls, he has also lost to Hercules in single combat in his Infinity Watch days. I'll admit that his soul gem is a serious weapon, but I don't think it is vastly more dangerous than Emma Frost (who can strike from anywhere in the arena). Lastly wizkids already gave me a gem less Warlock, if you guys do it too I'm gonna call out the hit squad.(this last one is a joke, mostly....)

[supermangl1]

Cyborg is good I think.

[Laenan]

Hawkgirl for middle?

[supermangl1]

Cyborg!

[Rando]

I nominated Sand and he is a he durnit. If it's up to me I'd replace him with Songbird.

[Laenan]

I'd say Cyborg. Did much better than beast in the first tourney. And beast kinda bumbles around.

[DTM]

Ok ok, if Adam Warlock isnt too tough with the Soul Gem for the HWs, he can have it back.

Hawkgirl might be alittle weak for the MWs, as Hawkman barely makes the cut.

2 votes for Cyborg, any others choices out there?

[Q99]

Husk of the X-men?

Deathstroke's already in, isn't he?

[Grinner]

Cyborg is a good choice for MW, but I'm not sure about Croc. He's definitely riding the border between light and medium. If he makes it into MW then he's going to be the bottom of the category.

[KingBlackBolt]

cyborg or havok sound good

[DTM]

OK, well get Cyborg in for Jesse. As for Croc, he is very strong and durable, and while not the smartest or the best fighter, his ferociousness usually makes up for that. he loses to Batman alot, but really, who doesnt. :)

[DTM]

And with THAT, I believe we have a FINISHED LIST.

Any thoughts on terrains? Should we chance, and or add to them? The arena is going to be 10 miles wide, with teams starting 1 mile away, if that helps.

Id like to stick with somewhat general, basic terrains, and not get TOO SPECIFIC, ala Freedom Fours tower, Dooms Castle, JLAs cave, etc.

Thoughts?

[Grinner]

Originally posted by DTM
Any thoughts on terrains? Should we chance, and or add to them? The arena is going to be 10 miles wide, with teams starting 1 mile away, if that helps.

Could you list the current ones again to refresh our memories?

[KingBlackBolt]

sounds good just be sure to specify whats around. Maybe like snow terrain or something but I was fine with what you had last time.

[Rando]

I want one more totally enclosed terrain like the military complex. right now 5 are open air and 1 is enclosed, I'd prefer it to be 4 and 2 or even 3 and 3, mostly because I'm tired of flight being such a crushing advantage. In comics u almost nvere see some flyer hang around in the sky and hose down a bunch of grounded guys stronger than him, but it is alluded to all the time here. So I"m for eliminating the plains or desert (which might as well be the same thing) for caves or something.

[DTM]

Originally posted by Grinner
Could you list the current ones again to refresh our memories?

TOURNAMENT ENVIRONMENTS


1. Rugged Desert – Lots of sand, some rock formations, scrub brush, small boulders, etc.

2. Urban Environment - Some medium sized buildings, paved roads, possibly a few cars/dumpsters, etc.

3. Plains – Basic open area, a few trees and bushes, minor hills, plenty of grass, etc.

4. Mountain Forest - Large rocks/boulders, perhaps a mountain river/stream, plenty of trees, etc.

5. Beach: Tropical Island, half sand and water/half palm trees and brush, etc.

6. Jungle: Pretty dense foliage, damp and hot, with maybe a very small creak or stream, etc.

[KingBlackBolt]

yeah that sounds really good to me. Or if you do have it open have space for some of the heroes to hide or fight in or around.

[DTM]

Originally posted by Rando
I want one more totally enclosed terrain like the military complex. right now 5 are open air and 1 is enclosed, I'd prefer it to be 4 and 2 or even 3 and 3, mostly because I'm tired of flight being such a crushing advantage. In comics u almost nvere see some flyer hang around in the sky and hose down a bunch of grounded guys stronger than him, but it is alluded to all the time here. So I"m for eliminating the plains or desert (which might as well be the same thing) for caves or something.

Well, we got rid of the Military Complex for the team battles last time since it wouldnt make much since having a 5 or 10 mile wide indoor, but mostly OPEN, area like that.

[Q99]

Large Underground Cave complex?

Domed Arena?

Labyrinth?

[KingBlackBolt]

Maybe a bigger city with taller towers and such. With like skys####ers. It would help certain characters more. Maybe you could do like a navy pier scenario where you have a port and like a urban environment setting.

[Maniac_nmt]

one thing, we will have to be careful with phoenix in the heavy weights class.

She fought Magneto at least once by herself at this stage, and hade him running like a girl to keep from getting flattened.

She is still 'Jean' at this stage, and is more or less a heavy weight, but she's kicked it up a notch or two to go well into the upper ends of Super Heavy Weight.

[KingBlackBolt]

Maybe like a colloseum setting or something cool like that.SOrry if thats too specific but yeah. The only problem I could think of with a totally closed are is what if the superheavys bring the place down where do they go then?

[DTM]

Hmmm< i always thought of regular Jean as a MW, and at this level, the Phoneix Force made her a HW. Course thats just my take on her.

[DTM]

Yeah, I agree, a cave would be nice, but where would the light come from, and as pointed out, what if Thanos or Doomsday bring the entire place down, which they can easily do.

What we have now is a nice open mix of heavy, light and no terrain arenas, which works for me personally.

[gladiator1518]

Originally posted by thugit
Man, Wonder Woman gets no respect. ;)


Of all the JLA'ers, she's the one I wouldn't want to piss off. She's the most ferocious. When you add that with her rather substantial super strength, I don't think ANYONE in this tourney would "crush" her. You beat me to the punch thugit. I agree no one can "crush" WW. They're several who can definately beat her,but it would NEVER be a lopsided battle.

[DTM]

Doomsday would eat her alive in 5 seconds flat. Shes tough, but on the lower end of the SHW list.

[Rando]

how about replacing desert with caves, and jungle with alien city, that way you can have buildings that reach all the way to the ceiling of the arena and well as floating platforms and highways in the sky and stuff. Flight is still an advantage, but not an insurmountable one, and it fits inside the arena size. Plus jungle and mountain forest are again very similar to one another. no light in the cave that way, if a team can't make some somehow then they are penalized for not having a good power mix, another justification for ppllike wolverine and Batman to be middle weight.

[KingBlackBolt]

so when does this tournament start?

[Grinner]

Originally posted by DTM
TOURNAMENT ENVIRONMENTS


1. Rugged Desert – Lots of sand, some rock formations, scrub brush, small boulders, etc.

3. Plains – Basic open area, a few trees and bushes, minor hills, plenty of grass, etc.

Pretty similar, we could probably drop one of these for a new one to add some variety.

Originally posted by DTM
2. Urban Environment - Some medium sized buildings, paved roads, possibly a few cars/dumpsters, etc.

Most unique of all the environments and the most archetypal for a comic book fight. Cannot be dropped!!

Originally posted by DTM
4. Mountain Forest - Large rocks/boulders, perhaps a mountain river/stream, plenty of trees, etc.

6. Jungle: Pretty dense foliage, damp and hot, with maybe a very small creak or stream, etc.

Similar, but I think different enough to keep both. I do agree we need to specify the size of rivers/streams/creeks.

Originally posted by DTM
5. Beach: Tropical Island, half sand and water/half palm trees and brush, etc.

Another unique one, and certainly less prone to debate than it was when it first appeared!

I think if we do add some, a couple of good ideas would be:

Badlands - sand, brush, lots of rock formations

Ruins - another classic comic-book fight arena, from the Blue Area on the moon to old Greek or Roman ruins.

[Q99]

How about a port! An arena specifically on the water, with boats to leap between and fight in, docks to walk on, and enough water for it to be a major factor in almost any fight.

[DTM]

Again, i DO like the caves idea, but 10 miles underground there would be NO LIGHT, and strong enough characters can bring the entire arena down around everyone.

Badlands sounds EXACTLY like Desert to me, Grinner.

And Alien City is pretty much like Urban Enivronment, which is basically fighting in a city.

[KingBlackBolt]

lol thats what I said q99.I suggested something like navy pier so there is buildings and stuff also.

[DTM]

But Beach would be very similiar to navy peir. A nice combo of open and terrain laiden land, and a nice big watery area as well. That arena has it all.

[oogie56]

I like the terrain ideas. Port would be really cool.

Not to be a pain,I still need an answer to my question.

[Q99]

Yeah, I agree, a cave would be nice, but where would the light come from,

Faeries! Thousands and thousands of glowing faeries!

[DTM]

Im sorry oogie, what was your question?

And Grinner, did you get my PM. YOu OK with that or no?

[oogie56]

Well, it was long and flowery, and back on like page three(ha, ha, ha). I was basically wondering if the teams would be set, or if those that advanced would then be redrawn into new teams for each round.

[Q99]

But Beach would be very similiar to navy peir. A nice combo of open and terrain laiden land, and a nice big watery area as well. That arena has it all.

Has any of the fights ever involved the water unless there was a specifically water-oriented fighter, though?

I'm thinking one with only actual wooden piers over the water and various boats, not wide areas away from the water, so it's actively hard to avoid the water.

[Maniac_nmt]

want a really unique water environment? Underwater city, with unbreachable walls. A series of large (100-1000 feet across) domes connected by causeways. Several of the domes could come with open access to the water, so a guy could dive in one place, and come up in another dome (these should probably be smaller satilite domes do prevent to much room taken up by water). Some arboretums, lots of collumns.

Junkyard/prison planet. A large arena filled with junk, a virtual jungle of s#### metal, old cranes, scaffholding, etc (think Dynamo's playground from the Running Man, or the prison world from The One)

New Mexico Research Facility. top secrect facility located in the deserts of new mexico, careved into a series of mesas, complete with sewer system, landing pads, wind tunnels, etc. Then you can fight inside and out ( I know it sounds kind of Halflife, but, 'eh, we've also seen these in comics often enough).

[bluebeetle]

i like the pier idea!!!

[Grinner]

Originally posted by DTM
Badlands sounds EXACTLY like Desert to me, Grinner.

Essentially they are nearly identical. But a little change to the name and description will drastically change peoples assumptions about the environment.

Say "desert" and most people think rolling hills of sand, Sahara style. Even though you list the rocks and scrub and such the image nearly everyone locks onto is "lots of sand, no cover."

Saying "badlands" or something like that and people start thinking more of hard & harsh deserty land - lots of rock, yucca and cacti, hard-packed ground...

So while "badlands" might be what the rugged desert is supposed to be, if you go back and read many peoples comments during the tournaments most folks have the "lots o' sand" image in mind.

[DTM]

The teams, once chosen, are SET, and will stay as such til the end.

And wouldnt such a wooden plank, pier arena really hinder those non flying and non overly agile opponents alittle too much. Grundy slipped and falls into the water, good bye Grundy without him even taking a hit. It just seems like too much of an asset to some, and a detrement to others, not really a neutral environment, which Im trying to have.

[Grinner]

Originally posted by DTM
And Grinner, did you get my PM. YOu OK with that or no?

Just saw it. I'll get it back to you in a minute.

[DTM]

OK, Ill rename Desert as Badlands now. :)

[Rando]

Bringing down the caves is a legitimate concern, but doing so would immoblize the super heavy weight that did it, so he would lose too. How about a space station, those show up all the time (Shi'ar/Kree/skrull/ etc. battle ships, Thanos's ship, Asteroid M, stuff like that), this can also be destroyed, but non space survival characters need to keep it in one piece.

[gladiator1518]

Originally posted by DTM
Doomsday would eat her alive in 5 seconds flat. Shes tough, but on the lower end of the SHW list. O.k. I forgot about Doomsday. My bad. But just 5 seconds?!? I think she would last a little longer than that. Especially since she knows who he is and how powerful and tough he is. She wouldn't dare go toe-to-toe with him; she would use her wits. She doesn't stand a chance of winning but I think she can last longer than your saying. She can last a little longer than most everyone else can against Doomsday. Let's face it they're only a handful of beings-excluding cosmic entitys- in either universe who even have a chance of defeating him.

[DTM]

But again, whats to stop Thanos from just blasting a whole in it and watching everyone fly out, and him sitting there smiling. I LOVE a variety of arenas, but we cant have an arena give HUGE advantages to some, and HUGE disadvantages to others. The 95% water and outer space station where walls can be destroyed does that., unfortunately.

[DTM]

Originally posted by gladiator1518
O.k. I forgot about Doomsday. My bad. But just 5 seconds?!? I think she would last a little longer than that. Especially since she knows who he is and how powerful and tough he is. She wouldn't dare go toe-to-toe with him; she would use her wits. She doesn't stand a chance of winning but I think she can last longer than your saying. She can last a little longer than most everyone else can against Doomsday. Let's face it they're only a handful of beings-excluding cosmic entitys- in either universe who even have a chance of defeating him.

Possibly, BUT Doomsday has NEVER been defeated by MAGIC, so he wouldnt have a nautral immunity to it (Loki, Dr Strange, Dr Fate)

Plus characters like Amazo, an entire JLA in one, and Despero, FULL of mental powers, another form DD isnt immune to, would certainly turn the tide with him.

[Q99]

I still point out the number of SHW who can-not hurt Doomsday/Thanos/Darksied, let alone stop him

[KingBlackBolt]

Well what I was thinking is like a city with bigger than medium sized buildings. Like tall towers so batman and spiderman and everyone else can do there thing. Maybe even have it with some towers and then maybe a building in construction or even a construction site around it.

[DTM]

Superman can hurt any of them. Again, Amazo, Despero, all the SHW magic users. Thor Im sure could hurt all of them, especially with his hammer being able to fire VERY powerful magical bolts. Kurse is TWICE the physical power of Thor. there are ALOT of high end guys here.

[bluebeetle]

why not just have a construction site as an arena!?

[KingBlackBolt]

Yeah I wouldnt be worried about people hurting other people. All the super heavys can pretty much damage each other.

[DTM]

Hmmmmm, construction site is interesting. Open areas, but still plenty of places to hide, and even lots to pick up and use as weapons by our super brusiers. Good call KBB, I like it.

[KingBlackBolt]

Thnx I try.

[DTM]

3. Construction Site – Half cluttered construction area, filled with such equipment and machines, a few semi finished buildings, half all around fairly open area.

This will replace the Plains area.

[Rando]

How about a meta-physical dimension like Dr.Fate's tower or that place where the mindless ones are from. That cannot be brought down on people, and it is an inside area. it is a bit complicated however, but I think its unique.

[KingBlackBolt]

I like it DTM a lot better than plains. :grin:

[DTM]

The full list of MADE TEAMS will be posted HERE very shortly. :)

Thanks for everyones help and input regarding this. I couldnt have done any of it without you guys.

[bluebeetle]

sounds like it is oging to be a good tournament

[KingBlackBolt]

soundslike its going to be a GREAT tournament it wont be just dc vs marvel it will be both combined so it wont be marvel fanboys vs DC fanboys as much as the team tournament was. Its gonna Rock.

[DTM]

Sorry Grinner, I GOT what you sent me, and its GOOD.

So heres the list of MADE TEAMS, in no particular order:

TEAM TOURNAMENT OF CHAMPIONS PART 2


1. Wildcat (JSA), Dr. Octopus, Power Princess, Dr. Strange

2. Richard Dragon, Deathlok, She Hulk, Juggernaut

3. Kraven, Hourman (Rex Tyler), Carnage, Green Lantern (Kyle)

4. Blue Beetle, Whizzer, Colossus, Thor

5. Batgirl (Cassandra), Sabretooth, Warbird, Darkseid

6. Bronze Tiger, Bane, Absorbing Man, Despero

7. Prometheus, Cyborg, WonderMan, Hulk

8. Green Arrow, Lizard, Deaths Head II, Martian Manhunter

9. Punisher, Spider-Man, Thunderbird (Non War Mode), Orion

10. Kingpin, Batman, Adam Warlock, Green Lantern (Hal)

11. Taskmaster, Deadpool, Sandman, Hyperion

12. Moon Knight, Human Torch, Captain Mar-Vell, Sinestro

13. Catwoman, Captain America, Solomon Grundy, Doomsday

14. Black Panther, Blink, Flash (Jay), Thanos

15. Nighthawk, Red Tornado (pre elemental), Thing, Captain Marvel (DC)

16. Bullseye, Archangel, Crimson Dynamo, Silver Surfer

17. Nick Fury, White Queen, Super Skrull, Kurse

18. Nightwing, Hawkman, Iron Man, Loki

19. Doctor Mid-Nite, Storm, Mandarin, Ultron

20. Mr. Terrific, Karnak, Mr. Fantastic, Exodus

21. Richard Dragon, Wolverine, Ronan the Accuser, Amazo

22. Gambit, Cosmic Boy, Steel, Superman

23. Porcupine, Omega Red, Sebastian Shaw, Black Bolt

24. Hawkeye, Cyber, Atlas, Sentinel

25. Joker, Iron Fist, Firestorm, Dr. Fate

26. Black Canary, Aquaman, Venom, Gladiator

27. Red Skull, Cyclops, Namor, Apocalypse

28. Lady Shiva, Mr. Fantastic, Wildfire, Lobo

29. Black Cat, Booster Gold, Captain Marvel Jr., Magneto

30. Hitman, Deathstroke, Dr. Doom, Flash (Wally)

31. Shang Chi, Mr. Freeze, Phoenix (pre Dark), Wonder Woman

32. Toad, Killer Croc, Invisible Woman, Black Adam

[Ghost Ripper]

Did you decide on a place yet? I would pick somthing like DBZ esque. Those places were very wide open and full of battleing potential. I would say the closest theing we would have to that is Utah and the Salt flats or overseas they can fight in the Eyptian Desert. Also, you could have a beyonder type person being the one doing the poofing for his/her (recently seen as a she) Enjoyment. Then she could put everyone on the moon to fight and allow everyone to be able to breathe by makeing an atmosphere. I like this option the best.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Am I allowed to be a standard comic-fan and thus grow bitter over you excluding my nominations of Dr. Pym and the Swamp Thing (I call the Curse of Alan Moore upon thy head!)? :)

[Maniac_nmt]

looks like some good teams, some are a little stacked, but on the whole good teams (ack Iron Man and Loki on the same team, ick, or taskmaster and deadpool, plus sandman and hyperion, oof)

[KingBlackBolt]

Wow all of these teams are looking good. Team 17 and 7 look very scary.

[DTM]

Originally posted by Rokk_Krinn
Am I allowed to be a standard comic-fan and thus grow bitter over you excluding my nominations of Dr. Pym and the Swamp Thing (I call the Curse of Alan Moore upon thy head!)? :)

Sorry, didnt ignore, just had more than we needed at that time RK. :)

[KingBlackBolt]

Team 20 is full of smart heroes/villians. Reed Karnak and mr terrific they ARE going to find out how to defeat any team here and if they are capable of doing it. They have to go far.lol

[KingBlackBolt]

So when do the matches start?

[Maniac_nmt]

shrug, but then you could say the same about Dr. Doom's team. If they follow Doom's lead, they'll be really hard to stop.

[bluebeetle]

Richard Dragon Twice 21 and 2?

[Black_Rook]

You Forgot Lobster Johnson and Hellboy, Yeah sure there not Marvel and DC, but who cares?

Who won the Team finals JSA or Avengers?

[Ghost Ripper]

How were these teams formulated, anyway? I was wondering can you have the same person be on more than 1 team. I see that in the case of Dragon. Anyways if it's not to late I want to add 1 more. I'll try to use the theme of above average, peak human, above human, and Way above, above human.

Above average I nominate:
Batman, Captain America, Wolverine, Superman KC or OWAW

[supermangl1]

Richard Dragon IS on there twice.

[bluebeetle]

may i suggest the question or blade
to replace one of the richard dragons?

[dj_sha]

Mr. Fantastic is listed twice, #20 and 28.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Btw, did you mean to put Mr. Fantastic on two teams?

Interestingly, he's listed in two seperate weight categories as well. Must be dependant on what part he's stretching. ;)

[Q99]

Thunderbird (Non War Mode),

Bah, I say!

With Firestorm, Captain Marvel Jr., Absorbing Man, and the like in the same catagory, why not let T-bird use his War-mode? (and note that kinda like the Hulk getting enraged, he never starts out with it or activates it unless one of his friends is in threat, or it's well into the battle and he has to)

[Q99]

Who won the Team finals JSA or Avengers?

JSA, in a hard-fought match.

[Rando]

poor Captain America, all that leadership and Doomsday to just ignore it. I'm very pleased that Warlock has Batman there with him, as well as the ultimate weapon of imagination to order around in Hal Jordan.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Ouch. Painful team for Captain America to "draw" - a selfish thief and two mindless brutes. Going to be hard to "tactically maneuver" those three.

On the other hand, there are some teams with some killer synergy in there. It's going to be a fun tournament. Thanks again DTM! :)

[Rokk_Krinn]

And somehow I twice in a row post the exact same comment as someone else at the _exact_ same moment. All comic-minds think alike I guess...mainly nitpicky. :)

[DTM]

Sorry, i must have errered with the Richard Dragon and Mr F mix up. Ill fix those now and post their correct teams in a second.

And Q, cant have a I can beat the crud out of a SHW in the HW category, now can we?

[Ghost Ripper]

:rolleyes: DTM must be ingnoring me:ermm:

[DTM]

Sorry all, I corrected the glitch, and I left out Rogue and Daredevil. So here is the CORRECT 100% TEAM LISTING:

TEAM TOURNAMENT OF CHAMPIONS PART 2


1. Wildcat (JSA), Dr. Octopus, Power Princess, Dr. Strange

2. Daredevil, Deathlok, She Hulk, Juggernaut

3. Kraven, Hourman (Rex Tyler), Carnage, Green Lantern (Kyle)

4. Blue Beetle, Whizzer, Colossus, Thor

5. Batgirl (Cassandra), Sabretooth, Warbird, Darkseid

6. Bronze Tiger, Bane, Absorbing Man, Despero

7. Prometheus, Cyborg, WonderMan, Hulk

8. Green Arrow, Lizard, Deaths Head II, Martian Manhunter

9. Punisher, Spider-Man, Thunderbird (Non War Mode), Orion

10. Kingpin, Batman, Adam Warlock, Green Lantern (Hal)

11. Taskmaster, Deadpool, Sandman, Hyperion

12. Moon Knight, Human Torch, Captain Mar-Vell, Sinestro

13. Catwoman, Captain America, Solomon Grundy, Doomsday

14. Black Panther, Blink, Flash (Jay), Thanos

15. Nighthawk, Red Tornado (pre elemental), Thing, Captain Marvel (DC)

16. Bullseye, Archangel, Crimson Dynamo, Silver Surfer

17. Nick Fury, White Queen, Super Skrull, Kurse

18. Nightwing, Hawkman, Iron Man, Loki

19. Doctor Mid-Nite, Storm, Mandarin, Ultron

20. Mr. Terrific, Karnak, Rogue, Exodus

21. Richard Dragon, Wolverine, Ronan the Accuser, Amazo

22. Gambit, Cosmic Boy, Steel, Superman

23. Porcupine, Omega Red, Sebastian Shaw, Black Bolt

24. Hawkeye, Cyber, Atlas, Sentinel

25. Joker, Iron Fist, Firestorm, Dr. Fate

26. Black Canary, Aquaman, Venom, Gladiator

27. Red Skull, Cyclops, Namor, Apocalypse

28. Lady Shiva, Mr. Fantastic, Wildfire, Lobo

29. Black Cat, Booster Gold, Captain Marvel Jr., Magneto

30. Hitman, Deathstroke, Dr. Doom, Flash (Wally)

31. Shang Chi, Mr. Freeze, Phoenix (pre Dark), Wonder Woman

32. Toad, Killer Croc, Invisible Woman, Black Adam

[Q99]

And Q, cant have a I can beat the crud out of a SHW in the HW category, now can we?


Doesn't Thing fight the Hulk on fairly good terms? T-Bird still doesn't have the constantly expanding anger (War-mode can beat the crud out of Hulk at the start of a fight), and actually starts out with the same problem- he starts out 'weak' and has to change to do so.

[gladiator1518]

Originally posted by SilverAgeFlash
...And Cap could deffinatly take spiderman. Wrong.

[DTM]

Originally posted by Ghost Ripper
:rolleyes: DTM must be ingnoring me:ermm:

Sorry GR, whats the question now?

[DTM]

Originally posted by Q99
And Q, cant have a I can beat the crud out of a SHW in the HW category, now can we?


Doesn't Thing fight the Hulk on fairly good terms? T-Bird still doesn't have the constantly expanding anger (War-mode can beat the crud out of Hulk at the start of a fight), and actually starts out with the same problem- he starts out 'weak' and has to change to do so.

Thing fights Hulk sure, but wins about 5% of the time, of that. If by WEAK you mean Thunderbird starts out in Thing level, then he fits right where he is, in the HWs.

[SteveRogers]

Oh, I think Cap can take Spidey, much more experience......comic book wise.

[gladiator1518]

But experience alone won't beat Spidey. Spider-Man obviously has much more strength,speed,agility, and the all important spider-sense.

[DarthDoom]

DOOM's team is prometheous, white queen, and lobo. but who is wildfire or which wild fire. DOOM must know so he can choose if he wants him as a team member.

[DarthDoom]

Originally posted by dj_sha
Mr. Fantastic is listed twice, #20 and 28. If that blasted Richards can go on two teams then DOOM would Also like DR.DOOM on his team in the HW spot. DOOM needs DOOM.

[Rokk_Krinn]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DarthDoom
DOOM's team is prometheous, white queen, and lobo. but who is wildfire or which wild fire. DOOM must know so he can choose if he wants him as a team member. [/QUOTE

Wildfire is a member of the Legion of Super-Heroes. He's a sentient being of anti-energy that uses a "containment suit" to give himself form. While inside the suit he possesses massive strength and invulnerability, superhuman speed, trans-light flight and his main offensive attack is to fire blasts of anti-energy. He can also loose himself from the containment suit to attack something directly as a horrendously powerful flood of anti-energy. I'm sure Doom already had this knowledge and I'm merely giving to the uninformed masses as a gift to demonstrate the great leadership that is Doom. :)

[Grinner]

Originally posted by DarthDoom
DOOM's team is prometheous, white queen, and lobo. but who is wildfire or which wild fire. DOOM must know so he can choose if he wants him as a team member.

Wildfire is a Legionnaire. He was booted out of the Middleweights tournament for being too powerful. His body is anti-energy contained in his suit. The suit is extraordinarily tough. He flies, fires energy bolts on par with (or slightly above) Cyclops, has damage-resistance around Thing levels and super-strength that falls somewhere between Iron man and She-hulk.

[Q99]

Catwoman, at least, is a smart cookie who can take orders (if she wants to, and she'll likely want to), and may actually be helpful in manipulating Grundy.

Now Doomsday, on the other hand....

Hmm... I suppose their strategy could simply be 'we make sure Grundy's keeping too many people from piling on Doomsday', which is actually likely to be pretty effective.


Thing fights Hulk sure, but wins about 5% of the time, of that. If by WEAK you mean Thunderbird starts out in Thing level, then he fits right where he is, in the HWs.

Actually he starts out weaker than the Thing, he got KOed by the Hulk in their encounter. I think I mentioned in the last tourny, definitely above Colossus, but below Thing.

It's only when he gets really pissed does he go into war mode and KO the Hulk, and really pissed fighters tend to dish out extra damage anyway (Hulk was going to kill... basically his brother at the time. See what Benn does when the Hulk is about to step on Human Torch). And, like Hulk starting out not very angry, War-mode not being a normal or easy thing is a disadvantage that should be taken into consideration for his weight class. He goes most fights never getting close to going into it.

I understand your point of view, I just think he's higher-end Heavyweight than the Thing when he's at his full, but IMO still heavyweight (at the cusp with the others I named).

[DarthDoom]

Originally posted by Rokk_Krinn
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DarthDoom
DOOM's team is prometheous, white queen, and lobo. but who is wildfire or which wild fire. DOOM must know so he can choose if he wants him as a team member. [/QUOTE

Wildfire is a member of the Legion of Super-Heroes. He's a sentient being of anti-energy that uses a "containment suit" to give himself form. While inside the suit he possesses massive strength and invulnerability, superhuman speed, trans-light flight and his main offensive attack is to fire blasts of anti-energy. He can also loose himself from the containment suit to attack something directly as a horrendously powerful flood of anti-energy. I'm sure Doom already had this knowledge and I'm merely giving to the uninformed masses as a gift to demonstrate the great leadership that is Doom. :) DOOM will take em WAH HA HA HA:laugh: Richards. we demand a Match with Richards. Richards,,,,,,,,,It is time to meet your DOOOOM

[Aberrant]

Question: Which Hyperion is this? Squadron Supreme? Exiles? Or Supreme Powers?

[Gambit026]

What no Iceman or Onslaught, and I mean the current powerful Iceman

[KingBlackBolt]

Onslaught is too strong for this. I believe someone did try to get him in though.

[Ghost Ripper]

Originally posted by DTM
Sorry GR, whats the question now?

I pm'ed you. Also, I saw that I guess you can't have more than 1 person for each team. So, I'll go with...

Psylocke post crimsion Dawn
Mimic
Maxima
High Evolutionary


Please allow my team to enter, please, please, please!!:grin:

This will be a fun one to watch people argue over. If High Evolutionary is too powerful then I'll substitute:

Psylocke
Banshee
Mimic
Shaggy man/The General

How's that for a team. Pick either one and I'll go with it.

Not to many people probably know about the High Evo. so here are his stats from the TSR RPG.

High EvoltutionaryHerbert Edgar Wyndham

Fighting: Remarkable
Agility: Remarkable
Strength: Excellent
Endurance: Cl3000
Reason: Cl1000
Intuition: Cl1000
Psyche: Cl3000

Health: 3080
Karma: 5000
Popularity: 0/100 with his creations
Resources: CL1000

Known Powers:
Cyborg Exoskeleton: Most of the High Evolutionary's powers are derived from his protective suit which also provides its wearer with Unearthly protection against physical attacks and Shift-Z protection from energy, psionic, or magical attacks. The other powers include: (all CL1000 unless otherwise noted)
Clairaudience
Clairvoyance
Communication with Animals
Communication with Cybernetics
Cosmic Awareness
Danger Sense which also alerts the High Evolutionary of threats to any of his creations
The High Evolutionary can separate his spirit from his physical form and can survive in this state for an indefinite period of time.
Levitation
Linguistics
Mental Invisibility which he can extend to an entire world
Mental Probe
Force Field Shift-X
Matter Creation which can be used for the following:
Artifact Creation which allows the creation of complex shapes
Elemental Creation
Lifeform Creation
Mechanical Creation
Missile Creation with Un range and Un damage.
Spray of Un intensity and damage.
The suit is designed to protect it's wearer at all costs and, as such,expends automatically up to 150 karma points to prevent disasters from affecting the High Evolutionary.
-The suit can, in time, even create a whole new body for Wyndham.
-The suit provides complete life support for Wyndham, automatic recycling his air and providing him with water and food.
Speechthrowing
Telepathy
Total Memory.

Talents:
+3CS reason in the fields of Genetics and Engineering.


Thanks for the consideration!;)

[Manchine]

Hey DTM would I been able to use these characters

Wizard Light Weight
Sandman Middle Weight
Enchantress Heavy Weight
Super Adaptiod Super Heavy Weight


Just wanted to know?

[DTM]

Hmmm, well dont think id call Wizard a LW. Sandman made it here, but as a HW (since so many people said last TOC he shouldnt be a MW) Enchantress I suppose could have been a HW, and Super Adaptoid I suppose a SHW.