Marvel/DC Battles: TEAM Tournament Of Champions Part 2: Round 1, Match 1

[DTM]

So, whos ready to pick a fight?

Welcome all to the next Team Tournament of Champions, where random MIXED Marvel and DC teams will be battling for the chance to claim the Ultimate Prize.

Basically, thes rules will be the same as my other TOC, with a few exceptions:

Each team will be allowed 10 minutes to get to know one another, strategize, plan, etc. The entire team cannot leave the surrounding area during this time. Any Split Universe characters can share their knowledge of their universe to their other universe teammates.

The combat area is 10 miles in diameter, and the teams start 1 mile from one another.

These teams are now FIXED, and will stay together til the end of the tournament, or until they are KOed or KILLED.

Well, I think thats it, the rest is basic DTM TOC stuff.

As for our FIRST BATTLE, I always like to start them off BIG, so lets see what weve got.......

Ah, got one.

The First Battle from our MIXED DC vs Marvel Tournament of Champions IS:


Richard Dragon, Wolverine, Ronan the Accuser, Amazo (original 5 JLA members)

VS.

Gambit, Cosmic Boy, Steel, Superman


As always, same rules apply, no time to prepare, POOFed from where ever they were, with only what they routinely carry on them, to fight in a Large area til one stands and one falls. YOU decide Who.

Randomly Chosen Area:


Urban Environment - Some medium sized buildings, paved roads, possibly a few cars/dumpsters, etc.


Thanks all, and enjoy.

And REMEMBER, if youre not sure who someone is here, ASK. Theres PLENTY of people here who can tell you most anything youd like to know. Thanks again.


TEAM TOURNAMENT OF CHAMPIONS


ROUND 1

Richard Dragon, Wolverine, Ronan the Accuser, Amazo (original 5 JLA members)
VS.
Gambit, Cosmic Boy, Steel, Superman

[Ghost Ripper]

Who's Richard Dragon? Also, what powers does Cosmic Boy have? Without knowing those 2 I'm not sure what to say. I do think that Wolverine and Ronan can take out Gambit Cosmic Boy and Steel all by themselves, so, to me it's a matter of how fast Superman can take down Amazo or how much Amazo can keep Superman Busy. If Superman is able to hit Dragon, Wolverine and Ronan w/ a couple of fast speed attacks before Amazo can stop and intefere then it goes to Superman and Co. Hard to decide here stratling the fence on this one.

[KingBlackBolt]

I think the team with amazo would win. Ronan is tough along with wolverine they may be able to take it.BUT the other team does have superman.But I think the Amazo team takes it this round.

[Rando]

I vote team Amazo

they have their opposition beat on every level.Dragon can beat on Gambit probably, heck Richard Dragon is so skilled he could probably beat on Wolverine. Cosmic boy's magnetic powers are about the best way there is to put the freeze on wolverine, especially since Cosmic boy flys. Ronan the Acuussar is portrayed to be able to handle Iron Man, he can take Iron man minus (which is what Steel is). Amazo is Superman plus 4 other guys. The only real advantage that team superman has is that they could pull together as a unit better, but Ronan is a military commmander, he isn't the best but with the power advantage ok should be good enough.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Well, I'd have to say Amazon isn't a bad draw for Cosmic Boy: magnetism versus a mechanical being (for that matter, he should have fun with Wolverine as well). The synergy between Cos and Steel's powers might also be fun. :)

We saw Gambit beat Logan more times than we've seen Wolverine beat Gambit, or as the Cajun likes to say, "Bang. You dead."

Ronan is going to be tough, but I think Superman can keep him busy enough for some of his teammates to help. In fact, if Cos can deal with Amazon fast enough (hopefully) he can manipulate Ronan's hammer as well: Cos "magnetically" controls metal, not just ferrous metal.

Guess you know where my vote goes, but to make it official:

Vote: Gambit, Cos, Steel, Superman

[KingBlackBolt]

Wolverine should also be able to manuever extremely well here.

[proditor]

Urg.....well, if they "pair-off" I see it going down like this.

Dragon whips Remy but good. Quickly too. BTW, Dragon is getting his own title again (finally) so check out what a beast he is.

Cosmic Boy vs. Wolverine. Ouch. Sorry cannucklehead, I gotta give it to the Brallian Powerball champion.

Ronan vs. Steel. Ronan beats Steel and in addition makes him say mommy.

Amazo vs. Superman. The big blue boy scout dismantles Amazo.

Now in teams however....

Okay..Dragon is still going to be dancing with Remy as no one else except the big guns is going to be able to hit Cosmic Boy. Wolverine is not going to come off well against a magnetic controller in this match, but the main thing here is that both Dragon and Logan can play for time...Ronan spanks Steel and makes him call for his mommy. Gambit falls in here to either Logan or Dragon tag teaming him while trying to avoid Cosmic Boy.

However, Super does the same to Amazo. Both of those fights are going to take a while though as all 4 big bads have many many options. Ronan tries to help out Dragon and Logan, but the guy with the Big S takes him apart.

Now it's Supes and Cosmic Boy vs. Wolverine and Dragon, and there is only one way that's going to turn out.

My vote: Gambit, Cosmic Boy, Steel, Superman

[Gambit]

I vote for the Supes, Gambit, Cosmic Boy, and Steel team.

[Rando]

oops, i got my team member crossed up there, disregard that vote DTM while I get my head back together.

[Q99]

Who's Richard Dragon?

The most skilled fighter in DC

Dragon > Shiva > Batman


He can take Gambit.

w/ a couple of fast speed attacks before Amazo can stop and intefere then it goes to Superman and Co. Hard to decide here stratling the fence on this one.

Keep in mind, Amazo copies Flash's Superspeed, in addition to having Superman's powers.

Oh, and Steel's here and he's a JLAer, so Amazo could copy his abilities too (not that it'd really matter).

[proditor]

A few points:

Amazo has the powers of the ORIGINAL JL. Flash (Before the speed force), Hal Jordan, Black Canary, Martian Manhunter, Aquaman.

Richard Dragon is the best HTH fighter/martial artist in the DC universe. Period, end of story.

[Ghost Ripper]

Originally posted by Rokk_Krinn


We saw Gambit beat Logan more times than we've seen Wolverine beat Gambit, or as the Cajun likes to say, "Bang. You dead."


What are you kidding me, what comics have you seen this in? I've seen wolverine beat the snot out of Gambit and if Gambit ever beat wolverine it would be becuase Wolverine was holding back. Wolverine is like Cap in the way that he's been around and has a lot of military background, along with spec. ops training. People really don't give a lot of credit to Wolverine and Sabretooth when it comes to smarts. They are both intelligent and superbly combat trained in all sorts of militray strategy. Wolverine and Gambit is like a Man fighting a woman. From the outside it looks like the women kicked the carp out of the guy, however the guy was just trying to hold her off and not seriously harm her, for if he wanted to he could have laid her out with probably one punch.

[SteveRogers]

Hmmm...

It looks like the troubles would be Ronan, Wolvie, and Amazo on the one team, but Supes as a big trouble, Gambit can explode different areas which could prove between a get-away and a charge in and Steel has previosly worked with Supes, so he knows what he's doing. With Wolverine, i'm not sure how his team would handle him considering he won't take orders as well as the others. Supes is a natural born leader, not trouble about who's listening or not, but the others seem like "The odd couple" in a four man team.

So, my vote goes to the Supes, Gamit, Cosmic Boy, and Steel team.

[Q99]

Amazo has the powers of the ORIGINAL JL. Flash (Before the speed force), Hal Jordan, Black Canary, Martian Manhunter, Aquaman.

And the ability to mimic powers of other nearby JLAers in his latest version.

[DTM]

For the recond, Amazo has NONE of Supermans Powers. The 5 original JLAers would be Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Flash and Aquaman.

[Rokk_Krinn]

And to answer the earlier question about who Cosmic Boy is:

His primary power is super-magnetism. "Super" refers to both the massive amounts of metal he can move/reshape (such as forming the metal discs on his outfit into wieldable shields, floating platforms or even flying weapons) and the fact that it seems to affect more than just ferrous metal (not as well, but he does affect it). He has been shown able to injure or toss around people by affecting the iron in their blood, but he doesn't do that very often (and the injury part seems to drain him, less-so the "tossing"). He can fly on magnetic currents but usually uses a Legion flight ring. He also packs a transsuit (skintight "environmental gear") and an Omnicom (think of a galaxy-wide encyclopedia mixed with tricorder) regularly (there have been shown other items like survival rations in his belt pack but I don't think those are too pertinent here :) ). He's also a very charismatic and gifted leader (as one lady said, if he'd been born in the 20th century he could've kept the Beatles together) and is a devious tactician (not Batman-level by any means but he's shown a bit of a gift for long-range maneuvering such as when he suckered Earth-Gov).

Now, to head off the inevitable questions: he differs from Magneto not in the metal category, but in the fact that Magneto can: manipulate the entire EM spectrum, do raw energy blasts, create impenetrable force-fields, effortlessly boil people's blood, has minor mental powers and has an anti-psionic helmet. The metal manipulation may be even (in fact, due to the non-ferrous aspects and some of the massive weights we've seen Cos do, a _slight_ advantage may be his) but Magneto does far _far_ more.

[Ghost Ripper]

Originally posted by Q99
Who's Richard Dragon?

The most skilled fighter in DC

Dragon > Shiva > Batman


He can take Gambit.

w/ a couple of fast speed attacks before Amazo can stop and intefere then it goes to Superman and Co. Hard to decide here stratling the fence on this one.

Keep in mind, Amazo copies Flash's Superspeed, in addition to having Superman's powers.

Oh, and Steel's here and he's a JLAer, so Amazo could copy his abilities too (not that it'd really matter).

I thought BatGirl was the most Skiled fighter in all of DC?

[proditor]

DTM: Just a clarification, it was Black Canary not WW who was in the inital JLA.

[DTM]

Originally posted by Q99

Amazo has the powers of the ORIGINAL JL. Flash (Before the speed force), Hal Jordan, Black Canary, Martian Manhunter, Aquaman.

And the ability to mimic powers of other nearby JLAers in his latest version.

That was only a one shot deal in the comics, here he just has the 5 JLAers listed above, no more.

Im surprised how many are voting STRONGLY Superman over Amazo. Even with the 5 he has, Amazo is going to really give it to Supes, possibly even for the win.

[Silver Lantern]

DTM Aquaman was 2 members of the original JLA?!? :confused: (See your post on page 1)

In any case, I vote team Amazo for now. This talk of CB just owning Wolverine AND Amazo uncontested is hogwash. Cosmicboy will go down and fast, if he is such a threat. I will vote for Team Amazo for now.

[DTM]

Well, Black Canary now, originally it was WW. As the HC of Amazo points out, with him having a magic lasso on him. Also, I listed Aquaman twice, it should read, MM, GL Flash, AM and WW.

[Ghost Ripper]

Originally posted by DTM
For the recond, Amazo has NONE of Supermans Powers. The 5 original JLAers would be Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Flash and Aquaman.

Would that mean pre-crisis power levels?
And can't he copy powers still?
If he can he can copy Wolverine's regen powers and then I think supes would have a serious problem. Plus unlike most humans as a machine he could multitask as in keep Cosmic boy in a Green Lantern field all the while fighing and attacking Supes and the other's. He can do to many things at once like a computer. Unless he can't use his powers all at the same time, kind of like the Super Adaptoid? Not sure on how Amazo's abilities/Powers work? I'd have to go with Amazo after copying Wolverine's Powers and Claws. Just think Green Lantern charged Adamantium Claws....Look out Supes is about to be gutted.

[Silver Lantern]

In that case, Amazo alone could probably beat the opposing team. ;)

[Grinner]

Originally posted by DTM
For the recond, Amazo has NONE of Supermans Powers. The 5 original JLAers would be Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Flash and Aquaman.

You're just having a reduncancy problem today, aren't you? First Richard Dragon & Mr. Fantastic, now Aquaman & Aquaman...

The original 5 JLAers whose powers this Amazo is copying are:

Aquaman - strength, toughness, fish telepathy, underwater breathing
Flash - phenomenal superspeed but no "speed force" stunts
Martian Manhunter - invunerability, super-strength, super-senses, Martian vision (eye beams), shape-shifting (I don't recall if Amazo had the telepathy or not. If so it's not as refined as J'onn's currently is)
Green Lantern - has a power-ring that creates beams, shields, constructs, etc. Has a weakness to yellow and isn't quite as powerful as a true Oan GL ring
Black Canary - advanced martial arts training, powerful sonic cry

[Rokk_Krinn]

Originally posted by Ghost Ripper
I thought BatGirl was the most Skiled fighter in all of DC?

Batgirl is an expert at reading body language and because of that is a top-notch fighter. She was definitely one of the top - such as when she fought Shiva - for quite awhile but it did seem as if her skill went down the more "humanized" she became. In fact, I believe this was even commented on by her at one point. Richard Dragon, by the way, is the teacher of many of DC's finest combatants, including Lady Shiva and the Question.

One of the first times we saw Remy drop Logan - to answer your question - would be Uncanny X-Men #273. Logan and Remy squared off in the Danger Room and Gambit won. The whole time Logan was cursing himself for being unable to lay a hand on the guy who "moves a lot like Longshot". Jubilee, just as a side note, bawled her eyes out. We saw a repeat event a few issues later in #275. Not saying Logan isn't better overall than Remy, but pointing out that Gambit does have a history of popping Wolverine.

[Ghost Ripper]

Originally posted by Silver Lantern
In that case, Amazo alone could probably beat the opposing team. ;)

Can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not? I assume by the smiley you are, however if you are or you aren't I don't know much about Amazo so if i was going overboard with his powers then I apologize and ask for forgiveness of my ingorance;)

[DTM]

Fine fine, Amazo has Martian Manhunter, GL, FLash, BLACK CANARY and Aquaman. :)

Im voting Team Amazo, since I believe Amazo will beat Superman with his 5 JLAers in one and, Richard Dragon beats Gambit, and I believe Ronan would take Steel, THOUGH its NOT a slaughter since Steel is VERY tough and strong.

[Grinner]

Originally posted by Ghost Ripper
Would that mean pre-crisis power levels?
And can't he copy powers still?
If he can he can copy Wolverine's regen powers and then I think supes would have a serious problem. Plus unlike most humans as a machine he could multitask as in keep Cosmic boy in a Green Lantern field all the while fighing and attacking Supes and the other's. He can do to many things at once like a computer. Unless he can't use his powers all at the same time, kind of like the Super Adaptoid? Not sure on how Amazo's abilities/Powers work? I'd have to go with Amazo after copying Wolverine's Powers and Claws. Just think Green Lantern charged Adamantium Claws....Look out Supes is about to be gutted.

We're using the original here, so he only has the set of powers he was programmed with. So no, he can't copy the powers of anyone. And while he is an android, and therefore a machine, he tends to think like a person - especially an earlier model like this one.

[bluebeetle]

i vote for team amazo!!!!

[Ghost Ripper]

Originally posted by Rokk_Krinn
Batgirl is an expert at reading body language and because of that is a top-notch fighter. She was definitely one of the top - such as when she fought Shiva - for quite awhile but it did seem as if her skill went down the more "humanized" she became. In fact, I believe this was even commented on by her at one point. Richard Dragon, by the way, is the teacher of many of DC's finest combatants, including Lady Shiva and the Question.

One of the first times we saw Remy drop Logan - to answer your question - would be Uncanny X-Men #273. Logan and Remy squared off in the Danger Room and Gambit won. The whole time Logan was cursing himself for being unable to lay a hand on the guy who "moves a lot like Longshot". Jubilee, just as a side note, bawled her eyes out. We saw a repeat event a few issues later in #275. Not saying Logan isn't better overall than Remy, but pointing out that Gambit does have a history of popping Wolverine.
\
This sounds to much like 'Paper, Rock, Sicssors' to me. Just because Gambit's beat Wolverine a few times and vice versa doesn't give an accurate portrayal of who would win every time. Look at Bane and Batman or Promethus and Batman. Who's to say who would win the next time they square off.

[Silver Lantern]

Black Canary sucks, give him WW's powers.

[KingBlackBolt]

Cant amazo absorb other powers?

[DTM]

No, he just has the powers of the 5 JLAers mentioned, with Black Canary replacing Wonder Woman, though that still gives him Green lantern, Flash and Martian Manhunters powers......oh, Aquaman too. :p

[Grinner]

I, too, am going with Team Amazo. There is no question in anyone's mind that he and Supes are going at each other. And that Steel & Cosmic Boy are probably going to be too busy with the other team to help him out.

Ronan can take Steel. He can probably hold his own against Steel & Cosmic Boy.

Gambit doesn't have a chance against Richard Dragon. Throw Logan into the mix and Remy's the first one out of the fight without question.

Things will be even worse for Team Superman if Amazo opened up with a Fastball Special on Steel to start things off...

In the end I don't see Superman taking down Amazo. And without Superman or Gambit, Steel & Cosmic Boy can't win.

Team Amazo for match #1.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Originally posted by Silver Lantern
In any case, I vote team Amazo for now. This talk of CB just owning Wolverine AND Amazo uncontested is hogwash. Cosmicboy will go down and fast, if he is such a threat. I will vote for Team Amazo for now.

The reason for saying Cosmic Boy has the _advantage_ (not owning uncontested - get your facts right, lawboy :) And yes, you're allowed to make all the physician jokes you like in return :) ) over Amazo is that traditionally magnetism rules robots and androids in the comics. Amazo's powerful, but his parts can still be disconnected internally. Not to mention, Amazon has never been terribly creative with his powers - just because we know how to use him in HC doesn't mean he knows how to use himself. :)

Wolverine? How the heck is Logan even going to tag someone who's probably flying? Flip him off? :)

[Rokk_Krinn]

Originally posted by Grinner
Ronan can take Steel. He can probably hold his own against Steel & Cosmic Boy.


Until Cos magnetically hoists Ronan's rod and flings it back at the Accuser. :)

[KingBlackBolt]

Also when gambit cosmic boy and steel are out ronan could help amazo with superman. With amazo and Ronan I dont believe superman can take it.BUT then again he is the man of steel but I see Amazo taking him down.

[Grinner]

Originally posted by Silver Lantern
Black Canary sucks, give him WW's powers.

Aside from the lasso, wouldn't Wonder Woman's powers be as redundant as Aquaman's?

Super-speed from the Flash (faster than Wonder Woman's speed), Super-strength from Martian Manhunter (on par with Wonder Woman's), Invulnerability from Martian Manhunter (stronger than Wonder Woman's).

At least Dinah gives Amazo another attack - one with an area effect.

[DTM]

Say, Im looking at Ronans RPG stats, you know I love em, and theyre NOT at the level many are hinting at. Certainly not at the level to take Steel AND Cosmic Boy. Steel is VERY strong, very tough, and SMART. I really think, even though I votd Team Amazo, that the Steel VS Ronan fight is going to be GOOD, which could go either way in my opinion.

[DTM]

Doesnt Amazo have all the powers COMBINED? So he would have MM and WW super strength.

[KingBlackBolt]

I know he has that cosmic rod thats pretty wicked.

[DTM]

True, but thats really the only think that bumps him up to Steels level. His strength and endurance are less without it. Plus Steels hammer isnt just some trinket, its a scientifically made weapon, maybe not to the level of the Cosmi Rod, but enough to make this Ronan/Steel fight very even.

Heck, if i thought Superman could take Amazo more than not, Id definately vote for Team Supes, I just dont think he can. BUT, a robot has a different way of thinking then a human, and Superman can be very clever when he needs to be.

[supermangl1]

Question: Gambit can explode non organic materials, metals, stone, etc. COuld Gambit make Amazo explode? Superman is waaaaaayyyy faster then this version of Amazo. Wolvie is null and void here, leaving Cosic Boy and Steel to go after Ronan.
I gotta say Supes team has this even if Gambit can't blow up Amazo.

my vote = Superman's team

[DTM]

Why would Superman be faster than Amazo? Superman doesnt have access to the Speed Force either, and Amazo has Flash level speed and reflexes. Superman was always FAST, but i thought always slower than Flash during their careers, Post Crisis anyway.

[proditor]

IIRC, Steel's Hammer in addition to tracking and other widgets, also hits harder the further it travels. If he can open up some distance and hit Ronan with it, he's going to be in a very very bad way. I still stand by my team choice, but I'll concede that the Ronan/Steel fight might be closer than I first thought.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Originally posted by DTM
True, but thats really the only think that bumps him up to Steels level. His strength and endurance are less without it. Plus Steels hammer isnt just some trinket, its a scientifically made weapon, maybe not to the level of the Cosmi Rod, but enough to make this Ronan/Steel fight very even.

Heck, if i thought Superman could take Amazo more than not, Id definately vote for Team Supes, I just dont think he can. BUT, a robot has a different way of thinking then a human, and Superman can be very clever when he needs to be.

So the big question is do you feel Steel plus Cosmic Boy vs. Ronan is still a very even fight? Or, if you have Cos not helping Steel, do you feel Cos + Superman does slightly better with Amazo than your original consideration?

Just because there are four characters on each team doesn't mean they have to square up one-on-one. Honestly, I hate to say it but Gambit can go take one for the team and let Logan and Dragon pummel on him for awhile. There's no initial reason for Cos, Steel and Superman to mess around with Dragon and Logan until later in the fight.

[Ghost Ripper]

I need more to go on for a final decision? Lets try to re-inact it.

Wolverine awakes to the sound and smell of 2 people he has never smelled or heard before and to one that is vaguely familiar, if only for the fact that he has a familiar Alien smell to him. Wolverine look about to see what he's smelling. A rather gruff individual seems to be laying upon the ground, while two others are stareing each other down, One with a Hammer and the other with the stature of a giant and the ears like an Elf. Wolverine yell's to the other two, "You chumps better have a good explantion for what's going on here or i'll be cutting me a couple of souviners out of your flaming hides." The two men pay no attention as if they took there eyes from one another then that would mean certain doom. As wolverine approaches the two he unsheathes his claws with a rather to the point question. "Who's fraggin butt do I have to carve first to get my answers. Then smelling a sudden change in the air he stops dead in his tracks and the two would be stare masters break there vow of solom eye balling to catch a glimpse of what appears out of the ground. Chunks of earth and sand form together as if out of the earth's crust it's self to form a beautiful blonde haried women with blue skin. At this very moment the fourth man awoke and flipped to his feet with hands out stretched in an aggressive manner. "what is going on, where am I" Wolverine says, "BuB that's what I was just about to ask Humpty and Dumpty here before the earth opened up and grew a Female."

If you like this so far then I'll finish the rest later. If not and My skills #### then I'll quit while i'm not ahead...lol:grin:

[Grinner]

Originally posted by supermangl1
Question: Gambit can explode non organic materials, metals, stone, etc. COuld Gambit make Amazo explode?

Yes, if Amazo just stood there on the ground and did nothing for the 5-10 minutes it would take Remy to charge Amazo up to explode.

Originally posted by supermangl1
Superman is waaaaaayyyy faster then this version of Amazo.

Superman is waaaaaayyyy faster than Barry Allen?:confused: :confused: Are we reading the same comic books?

And to DTM & Rokk - I never said he'd win against the two of them. Just that he could hold on.

[DTM]

Hmmmmm, the more I think about this, the more I think I might switch my vote, and NOT because of Superman.

Cosmic Boy is going to be a HUGE asset to this team in THIS fight. I think he can hold Wolverine immobile fairly easily once he gets him, thanks to Gambit telling CB that Wolvies bones are metal.

NOW, with this done, and CB in the air, he can Help Superman with the metallic Amazo, even if its just slowing him down a bit or loosening something inside him.

The Ronan vs Steel fight I see going on alot longer than more here do, so theyll keep themselves busy. And while Richard Dragon will kick the crud out of Gambit, with him being GROUNDED, he cant really do anything to the rest of them, which would all be in the air.

Hmmmmm, OK, Ive convinced myself. Thanks to CBs help ONLY, I think Superman would narrowly beat Amazo, and then help clean up the rest with CB, whether Steel wins or not at this point is moot.

Winner, Team Superman. TEAMWORK, not just one on one battles, wins this fight.

[Grinner]

Originally posted by DTM
Cosmic Boy is going to be a HUGE asset to this team in THIS fight. I think he can hold Wolverine immobile fairly easily once he gets him, thanks to Gambit telling CB that Wolvies bones are metal.

NOW, with this done, and CB in the air, he can Help Superman with the metallic Amazo, even if its just slowing him down a bit or loosening something inside him.

This from the guy who last tournament was saying that Cos would have trouble just holding Wolverine and Colossus off the ground? :laugh: :laugh: ;) ;)

[supermangl1]

Ok they may have been stupid questions and comments, but I didn't know how long it takes for Gambit to charge something. Oops, my bad, I wasn't thinking straight. For some reason I typed before I thought. For some reason I had Flash being much slower then speed force version. Which is true, but not THAT slow. I apologize.

I still think Supes team can win.
Wolvie is useless, and Richard Dragon could get nailed by a car by Cosmic Boy quickly.
I believe the power of Cosmic Boy makes Supes team by able to double team Ronan and Amazo.

[proditor]

I agree with that assessment DTM. CB and in fact, all the LSH get the short end of the respect stick a lot. CB has definitely shown massive multi-tasking in LSH and easily has the capacity to levitate Logan while slowing or lobbing things (Perhaps Logan?) at Amazo to help Big Blue.

[KingBlackBolt]

If cosmic boy tried slowing down amazo couldnt he take cosmic boy inside of a ball and crash him into superman or the ground to get him out of the way? I am still going to go with Amazos team.Plus ronan was able to stand up to the fantastic four.

[DTM]

Originally posted by Grinner
This from the guy who last tournament was saying that Cos would have trouble just holding Wolverine and Colossus off the ground? :laugh: :laugh: ;) ;)

Colossus would resist CB with MUCH more force than Wolverine ever could. Also, I didnt say this, I just said THAT XMen team would find a way to win, being SO used to battling mentalists and magnetic gods.

[Silver Lantern]

Well since your statement was pretty vague, I was simply drawing an inference in the light most favorable to the non moving party (team amazo here). ;)
Despite the Magnetism powers, I don't think that CB has any idea of the inner workings of Amazo, to know what to disconnect internally. Also relative power levels have to be considered. CB may have magnetism powers, but I don't think that makes him a silver bullet against Amazo especially. Remember can create, GL type Forcefields, can withstand extreme pressure as good as Aquaman, and is as invulnerable as MM.

I'll grant CB can probably take Logan due to the match up, and their relative equal power levels, but I think that Richard Dragon will then own CB. And if Amazo does a hypersonic drive-by punch on CB or Remy, he may well knock them out cold. Whereas, all the guys on Amazo's team can probably shrug off such a punch from Supes, considering his love of kids' gloves.

Besides, Ronan is too much for CB & Steel, and will eventually be able to help Amazo. In fact, I am surprised Ronan isn't a SHW.

Originally posted by Rokk_Krinn
The reason for saying Cosmic Boy has the _advantage_ (not owning uncontested - get your facts right, lawboy :) And yes, you're allowed to make all the physician jokes you like in return :) ) over Amazo is that traditionally magnetism rules robots and androids in the comics. Amazo's powerful, but his parts can still be disconnected internally. Not to mention, Amazon has never been terribly creative with his powers - just because we know how to use him in HC doesn't mean he knows how to use himself. :)

Wolverine? How the heck is Logan even going to tag someone who's probably flying? Flip him off? :)

[Grinner]

Seriously, though, I think that in character Rokk is more likely to be backing up Steel than Superman. And I completely agree that together they drop Ronan like a bad habit. But I see Amazo taking them down after he finishes off Superman, especially if he has J'onn's telepathy.

I do agree that short of a super-speed fastball special to open things up Logan is a non-entity in this fight.

It's a very close fight and I certainly wouldn't begrudge either team winning. I just see Amazo's team winning more often.

[DTM]

Originally posted by Silver Lantern
Well since your statement was pretty vague, I was simply drawing an inference in the light most favorable to the non moving party (team amazo here). ;)
Despite the Magnetism powers, I don't think that CB has any idea of the inner workings of Amazo, to know what to disconnect internally. Also relative power levels have to be considered. CB may have magnetism powers, but I don't think that makes him a silver bullet against Amazo especially. Remember can create, GL type Forcefields, can withstand extreme pressure as good as Aquaman, and is as invulnerable as MM.

I'll grant CB can probably take Logan due to the match up, and their relative equal power levels, but I think that Richard Dragon will then own CB. And if Amazo does a hypersonic drive-by punch on CB or Remy, he may well knock them out cold. Whereas, all the guys on Amazo's team can probably shrug off such a punch from Supes, considering his love of kids' gloves.

Besides, Ronan is too much for CB & Steel, and will eventually be able to help Amazo. In fact, I am surprised Ronan isn't a SHW.

I think youre augmenting Ronan to more than what he is. And RD cant so much as touch Cosmic Boy, since he will be flying, something RD cant do.

[Laenan]

Cosmic Boy can stop, I presume, both Wolverine, and (probably) Amazo. Um... Team Supes is my vote.

[supermangl1]

I really see this being Gambit and Steel vs. Ronan, and Cos and Supes on Amazo.

Could RD take Gambit, in about 30 seconds. But there is no reason for Gambit to get anywhere near him. Steel, Cos, and Supes all fly, advantage team Supes. It a close one though.

[KingBlackBolt]

Also in regards to wolverine being useless he normally lurks in the shadows and what not before striking. If gambit doesnt know that he is there then he couldnt inform cosmic boy right away giving wolverine a chance to sneak up on him. But if the teams are informed of who they are facing in the beginning then I guess this probably wouldnt work.

[Silver Lantern]

Originally posted by Grinner
Aside from the lasso, wouldn't Wonder Woman's powers be as redundant as Aquaman's?

Super-speed from the Flash (faster than Wonder Woman's speed), Super-strength from Martian Manhunter (on par with Wonder Woman's), Invulnerability from Martian Manhunter (stronger than Wonder Woman's).

At least Dinah gives Amazo another attack - one with an area effect.

I think you're underestimating the Lasso. It alone is better than Canary. ;)
He also gets the deflection Bracers, which can be used to deflect Supes heat vision beams negating his ranged attack vs. Amazo.

[Maniac_nmt]

Thanks to the terrain, Team Superman for the win, in an easier then it otherwise would be match.

Cosmic Boy will trump the hell out of Logan, and thanks to the plentiful ammount of metal in a city environment hammer richard dragon too.

Then Gambit and Steel team up and take down Ronan, while Superman does what superman does best, and whomps Amazo

[Maniac_nmt]

why does cosmic boy even need to llevitate/immobilize wolvie? Why not just shove him through a building or three, not even logan is getting up easy after that, then a lampost/girder prison for Richard Dragon, and Cosmic Boy is back in the fight in a minute or two of the start.

Plenty of time to help defeat either Amazo or Ronan.

[VandalSavage]

I vote....Team Superman!

Mr. Savage

[Rokk_Krinn]

Originally posted by Maniac_nmt
why does cosmic boy even need to llevitate/immobilize wolvie? Why not just shove him through a building or three, not even logan is getting up easy after that, then a lampost/girder prison for Richard Dragon, and Cosmic Boy is back in the fight in a minute or two of the start.



Or better yet hurls Logan into Dragon. :) Or hurls Ronan's staff into Dragon or Amazon (remember folks - that staff is metal and a toy to Cos; Ronan's tough but most of his powers are in that staff).

'Course the really fun one would be totally out of character: forceably popping Logan's claws and _then_ using him as a missle against Logan's teammates. :) There's your fastball special (for the record, speaking of fastball specials - remember Cos can add to the might of Steel's attacks by adding some magnetic momentum to that hammer).

[Ghost Ripper]

Originally posted by Rokk_Krinn
Or better yet hurls Logan into Dragon. :) Or hurls Ronan's staff into Dragon or Amazon (remember folks - that staff is metal and a toy to Cos; Ronan's tough but most of his powers are in that staff).

'Course the really fun one would be totally out of character: forceably popping Logan's claws and _then_ using him as a missle against Logan's teammates. :) There's your fastball special (for the record, speaking of fastball specials - remember Cos can add to the might of Steel's attacks by adding some magnetic momentum to that hammer).

I just made the connection, but no wonder this guy is all about Cosmic Boy, look at his 'Tag' Name, Rokk Krinn anyone. His vote shouldn't even count with all the mad love going on for that char. j/k;)

[pangea]

I think the planning will help supermans team to a fairly easy victory. Use gambit as a sacrificial pawn against wolverine and richard dragon, keeping everyone else airborne. Use cosmic boy to help Superman, unless he's not effective against Amazo(but I think he would be). Cosmic boy should go down, but its all about superman standing and helping out steel in a ferocious (and long) battle with ronan. then mop up the two land bound stragglers. The other way is for cosmic boy to help steel and then gang up on Amazo. As long as all the flyers stay airborne, Amazo's team won't be able to pick there targets. It also helps that the Amazo/Superman fight and the Ronan/Steel fight seem to be close matches. Meaning the extra help will mean alot. I think that Richard Dragon and Wolverine are sickeningly competent but there is nothing they can do here.

[Bannerfan]

Amazo and gang for the win here. Cosmic boy wont know what hit him when wolverine sneaks up on him and takes him down from behind.Im sure amazo could also multi task and take out cosmic boy easily.Amazo and gang have should win this one.

[Maniac_nmt]

you're right they can't do anything, Rokk picks up logan with one gesture, while wrapping Dragon up with a girder with the other.

Sends logan into the air, and brings him screaming face first into the pavement on the way back down, that's a one shot KO even on logan, and neither Ronan or Amazo can do diddly to stop it with supes and steel there.

Then Gambit can pepper either, or both with charged weapons (heck, he could always charge the street to start, and blow logan and dragon to kingdom come, but that was only done once that I know of)

[Maniac_nmt]

bannerfan, how is logan even going to get near a flying cosmic boy?

Since 3 of the 4 from that team fly, one has superspeed equivalent to Amazo (plus can match the rest of his powers pound for pound), a superman replacement, and a magneto minus the em spectrum jazz.

How is this not a cake walk for team supes? Sheesh, all that metal, two heros that are good friends, and another who knows exactly how to exploit logan.

This should be a slaughter, the other way, Big Blue Boyscout all the way

[dj_sha]

Since the "pairing off" should never happen in an actual fight, I'd see Ronan and Amazo going up against Supes and Steel and being able to beat them. Steel doesn't match up to Ronan well, and would be knocked out by him fairly quickly. Cosmic Boy would cause some problems, but I could see Dragon and Wolvie taking him out. Gambit would go down in a second. When the dust settles, I see Amazo beating Superman for the win (after they finish Cosmic Boy, with Dragon getting KO'd, Wolvie would probably be used as a "fastball special" on Superman). It would definately be close, but Amazo and Ronan manage to pull it off.


My vote: Richard Dragon, Wolverine, Ronan the Accuser, and Amazo

[Rokk_Krinn]

Originally posted by Bannerfan
Amazo and gang for the win here. Cosmic boy wont know what hit him when wolverine sneaks up on him and takes him down from behind.Im sure amazo could also multi task and take out cosmic boy easily.Amazo and gang have should win this one.

They "Wolverine sneaks up" move would be absolutely brilliant and in-character except for one small problem: Logan doesn't _fly_. :) Do you really want Amazon concentrating on Cos when there's a threat like Superman running around? Just asking.

And, Ghost, yep, my name is a nod to the first comic character I could ID when I was a kid. Does it mean I favour him? Absolutely. Going to tell me you don't favour some characters in this tournament? Didn't think so. :)

[Rokk_Krinn]

Originally posted by dj_sha
Cosmic Boy would cause some problems, but I could see Dragon and Wolvie taking him out.

I know this is going to get redundant but I'm genuinely curious here: how on earth do earthbound characters start regularly tagging and KO'ing flying characters? Not to mention as previously stated, Logan's going to be useless against Cosmic Boy - on the other hand, he's going to make a great weapon for Cos.

[KingBlackBolt]

I may favor a certain character. ;) But I think we all do just as well. But Ill have to admit cosmic boy is being a minor pain. But in theory if wolverine was hiding in a building or what not wouldnt he wait for an opening to strike? Like stalk the prey and pounce. If wolverine doesnt take out cosmic boy he could cause some real damage. Im still liking Amazos team for now.(they are just so amazing)

[KingBlackBolt]

With how fast Amazo is couldnt he also fly by and Ko cosmic boy. If he has martian manhunters powers he could fly through superman and takeout cosmic boy with ease and then resume his fight with superman just as easily.

[Q99]

oh, Aquaman too.

Hey, don't discount Aquaman! He's a powerful tele.... hmm, MM's powers, right. Yep, he's useless. Unless there's fish around (hey, if he goes up against Namor, that could matter!).


I thought BatGirl was the most Skiled fighter in all of DC?

Batgirl's the most skilled -active- fighter, really. Richard Dragon comes and goes and is almost a legend.

Batgirl > Shiva, but only by a slight amount.

Shiva openly admits Dragon's better.

but because he's not as active, people forget about him.


Btw, I'm going to vote Team Amazo. Amazo is stronger than Superman, and Cosmic Boy's powers aren't going to be much of anything to him, since even if they can slow him down... he can heat-vision or super-speed him with an offhand jesture. Unless, Superman blocks it for him and takes the hit, which he's likely to, and every bit in that fight matters. So I think Amazo will take Superman, Dragon will take Gambit, and Wolvie might, I dunno, distract someone or something. Ronan and Steel, meanwhile, will be going at it (or rather, keeping the other from helping their big gun). An that's my reasoning.

[gladiator1518]

I vote for Superman team.

[DreadDormammu]

Team Amazo

[Maniac_nmt]

Gambit has beaten wolverine before, and thanks to massive energy grenades of his own making, and a willingness to hurt/maim his foes, I'm don't see why people give a logan/rd vs gambit fight to the Amazo squad. Keep it in the street, or go inside (let's remember, Gambit grew up a theif in New Orleans, and is excellent at hiding, and the hit and run game).

If RD and Logan are together, Gambit can cut his odds in half with a single throw.

The one group that would have completely ended the big Spit Curl's team isn't here.

You say what's to stop a hyperspeed Amazo, so who stops a super speed supes, fly in and KO Logan and RD in one go, nab ronan on the circle back, and slam him through a few buildings, if that doesn't soften him up, nothing will.

Anything Team Amazo can do, team Supes can do better, and they bring more stuff to be able to do.

[UXMGambit]

I'm gonna have to go with the Supes fact due to the fact that Gambit can blow up Amazo, Comic Boy can TK Ronan's hamer away and Supes can take of him and the rest are pretty much history.

VOTE= Gambit, Supes, Cosmic Boy, and Steel.

[Kaiba2787]

I have to agree with Maniac on this one.

My vote goes to The Supes team.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Originally posted by KingBlackBolt
I may favor a certain character. ;) But I think we all do just as well. But Ill have to admit cosmic boy is being a minor pain. But in theory if wolverine was hiding in a building or what not wouldnt he wait for an opening to strike? Like stalk the prey and pounce. If wolverine doesnt take out cosmic boy he could cause some real damage. Im still liking Amazos team for now.(they are just so amazing)

Wonder which char you favour KBB. :)

I agree that Wolverine would cause real damage to a grounded opponent. Unfortunately I'm seeing two real problems here for Logan: the first is the fact that 3 of the 4 combatants fly (and quite well - Steel probably being the least agile) and there's no reason for them to get close (especially after, for example, Gambit explains about Logan's claws and tracking skill). Secondly, Logan is still a mass of moving metal and if Remy has tipped off Cos - and there's no reason he wouldn't do that (and if he hasn't, I'm sure Kal's vision powers pick up on the fact) - Cos can essentially track (or at least keep up a "proximity alert field") that much metal coming at him. More than likely, Logan's going to have trouble surprising the three fliers (Superman's senses, Steel's assorted sensors and Cos's magnetic "senses")

[KingBlackBolt]

I feel Amazois better than supes he couldplay a great game of hit and run that superman couldnt compete with I dont know how well supes could keep up with him if he is phasing in and out of everything. But what I was saying about the Amazo run from supes thing is, that superman wouldnt be expecting him to take off all of a sudden and go after his team members. Then again superman could do the same thing but not as well, I mean amazo can cut corners(by phasing through them or whole buildings that may be in the way) while superman couldnt. Plus isnt amazo faster than Superman? Wolverine would more than likely be in hiding waiting to strike but im not sure about dragon hiding. I think Amazos squad would win. But both teams are gonna put up a fight.

[KingBlackBolt]

Not Black Bolt ;) Yeah wolverine would have trouble with cosmic boy but I thought since a lot of the buildings are comprised of steel and there is metal everywhere that it may be easier for wolverine. Also if wolverine could sneak up on him it would be around 4 out of 10 times maybe a little more if they could distract cosmic boy. But also how would gambitknow wolverine was there if he was sneaking around? Or are the teams notified of who they are going up against?

[Rokk_Krinn]

The thing to consider about Amazo doing "hit and run" is that it's never really been his style. He may have some potentially great powers at his fingertips (though - and I may be wrong here, I admit - I didn't think Amazo got the powers at full level) but he's a very straightforward brute fighter. It's part of the reason the JLA has been able to consistently defeat him. There was even a story about how the big worry with Amazo one time was that he "duplicated" part of Batman's strategy/intelligence (for some reason this was the "power" Ivo set up to be stolen from Bruce) and thus would actually be able to start thinking through his moves for once.

[Ghost Ripper]

First off, where are people getting the idea that Gambit even knows Wolverine is waiting a mile away. The only thing I can think of is that if Supes uses his telescopic vision he could describe the people, however that seems unlikely. I think he would be more like I see Amazo and Dragon, but two more I don't know. One is short and the other is wielding a hammer. Heck, for all anyone knows that could be Thor. It's not likely they know what awaits them a mile away at the battle front.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Originally posted by KingBlackBolt
But also how would gambitknow wolverine was there if he was sneaking around? Or are the teams notified of who they are going up against?

The teams are resticted to their starting area for ten minutes. Not sure if they're informed of their opponents but even if they're not, ten minutes is ample time for Superman to scan out the opponents and describe them to his team (at which point Remy can fill them in or Superman can just go: We have the world's greatest martial artist, a guy with an oversized metal hammer with some alien technology, a short man with metal bones and metal claws and a robot who is very dangerous as he possesses my teammate's power - here's out plan....:) ).

[KingBlackBolt]

Yeah Im not a very big DC fan Im much more of a marvel guy. At least I know more of Marvel than of DC. Also since I havent really read anything of Amazo I just knew his powers not so much his strategies. I do think it would be a close match though. I figured there would be tons of voters for superman but there doesnt seem to be at least not as many as I thought I would see.

[KingBlackBolt]

Very true-Darn that superman.lol Jeez rokk you are on top of things.

[Q99]

You say what's to stop a hyperspeed Amazo, so who stops a super speed supes, fly in and KO Logan and RD in one go, nab ronan on the circle back, and slam him through a few buildings, if that doesn't soften him up, nothing will.

Anything Team Amazo can do, team Supes can do better, and they bring more stuff to be able to do.


But Amazo's better in a strait fight. If they both chose the 'eliminate the other team' route, which I'm fairly sure Superman would absolutely not do, then it's down to Amazo Vs. Superman with no interferance again, and Amazo has always required a team to take down (it is, after all, J'onn J'onzz, who Supes never wants to fight, with extra super-speed to make him faster than supes, WW's gear to allow him to parry Heat Vision without damage and to tied up Supes with something even he can't escape, and again that's with the Superspeed edge, strength only slightly less, telepathic both in move-reading and offensively, and density control/intangibility), and Superman isn't a team.

[SilverAgeFlash]

Team Superman wins

Cosmic boy gets rid of Dragon by lockign him inside a car and throwign it over a building. Logan he just throws. Then he moves a car next to AMAZO while e is fighting with superman. Gambit explodes the car ( witch should imobilize AMAZO (because of MM weakness to fire??? right) then superman wails on him hardcore. Then Gambit peppers Ronan with cards.

[KingBlackBolt]

Well if its a city could he see thru buildings? I am not for sure if he has x ray vision or not.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Originally posted by KingBlackBolt
Very true-Darn that superman.lol Jeez rokk you are on top of things.

Not really. Just having to wait around my office for the hospital to fax me some patient lab reports, or to translate - bored out of my wits and thus spending waaaay too much time on here tonight. :)

And you're right - darn that Superman. That's but one reason you should go ahead and change your vote to Big Blue's team. ;)

[KingBlackBolt]

Gambit is not gonna take out ronan with pepper cards sorry. Also how would amazo be pinned if he can phase thru the car with super speed? (I dont think he could be)

[Q99]

Not sure if they're informed of their opponents but even if they're not, ten minutes is ample time for Superman to scan out the opponents and describe them to his team

And on the other side, a Telepath.

[KingBlackBolt]

Sorry silverageflash if that came off rude.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Originally posted by KingBlackBolt
Well if its a city could he see thru buildings? I am not for sure if he has x ray vision or not.

Superman? He has X-ray vision, telescopic vision, super-hearing, microscopic vision, infrared vision, etc. - basically he has the complete super-senses package.

Amazo has never demonstrated any aptitude with J'onn's telepathic abilities, even when duplicating them. Ivo programmed Amazo to be a straight-forward "wade in and duke it out" fighter - the more subtle powers he either ignores or uses poorly. Sorry, but I can't think of a single time when basic Amazo (we're not talking Hourman Opponent Amazo here) has even used psionics, even when duping the Manhunter. Not saying it hasn't happened, but I'm sure not placing it.

[SilverAgeFlash]

not pepper to hurt only to bother while he fights with Steel.
As for the car he is fighting with Superman( if he has their weaknesses witch i think he does)then the fire would dampen MM and reduce Aquaman.

[supermangl1]

Well I have come back after embarassing myself with a dumb comment, but thats never stopped anyone on hcrealms before!

Like many people have said, Cosmic Boy (whose powers are magnetic!) can by himself take out Wolverine, Dragon and take Ronan's staff.
Supes who IS NOT faster then Amazo, but can Supes fly faster the Amazo? If he runs as fast as the Flash, that does not translate into flying speed. WIll hold off Amazo for a good while, and there is no way Amazo can beat the entire Superman team.

And if they needed maybe Gambit couldn't charge up all of Amazo, but in a few seconds he could charge his hand or head. :p But even with out this team Superman will win.

Intersting the Middle Weight helps this team more then the Heavyweight and lightweight combined.

[KingBlackBolt]

Thanks Rokk for clearing that up for me.

[KingBlackBolt]

I think there should belike 10 amazos with the JLA powers like thisone. That would be neato. Then they would cream superman. lol they could conquer the world.

[supermangl1]

Hahahaha, if there is one thing I've learned being on HCrealms, it this:

Never challange the knowledge of mr. Rokk Krin. For it is truly dizzing.;)

[KingBlackBolt]

O i just thought of another question. How does a metal robot absorb say martian manhunters invulnerability if the metal can be damaged?

[Ghost Ripper]

Originally posted by Rokk_Krinn
The teams are resticted to their starting area for ten minutes. Not sure if they're informed of their opponents but even if they're not, ten minutes is ample time for Superman to scan out the opponents and describe them to his team (at which point Remy can fill them in or Superman can just go: We have the world's greatest martial artist, a guy with an oversized metal hammer with some alien technology, a short man with metal bones and metal claws and a robot who is very dangerous as he possesses my teammate's power - here's out plan....:) ).

I'd have to disagree with you on the Superman File you just broke down for people. First of all Superman wouldn't use his X-ray vision to see through the people, that's just not in his character. He's a smash first if that doesn't work then strategize kind of guy. But, for the sake of the argument he wouldn't be able to see Wolverine's claws unless (a lot of what if's here too) he had them out. Which Wolverine doesn't just pull out his claws for no reason. What Superman would probably be able to see is that he has metal bones and extra thick bones in his forearms, which he probably wouldn't comment on any way. Also, that's if in the Marvel Universe Adamantium doesn't act like led for his X-ray vision. I say to many variables and know one knows what they are trully up against.

[KingBlackBolt]

not absorb I eman how can he be enhanced by it if he is still metal?

[MadHatter]

I'm sorry, but I don't buy Cosmic boy taking out Team Amazo by himself with other people as icing. I see him freezing up wolverine, and having to sit there, concentrating at the properties of the incredibly hard, totally alien metal from the Marvel universe. Dragon pounds Gambit, managing to take his own quarterstaff and beat him silly. I think that Ronan won't have too terrible a time beating up Steel, nor do I forsee his cosmic rod auto-stolen by Cosmic boy. I think Amazo will lose to Superman but only after a hard fight.

So, we have frozen wolverine, Cosmic Boy who's concentrating, weakened superman, scratched Ronan and Richard Dragon remaining. I think that Kal will charge towards Ronan, only to take a full on blast, rendering the man of steel unconcious, however, the superspeed of superman, despite waning after fighting Amazo, allows him to land a nasty blow to the Kree Accuser.

Cosmic Boy, or Economy-sized Magneto, will smile, looking for a pipe or lamp to take out the Dragon with. He'll look around trying to spot one of the world's best martial artists, only to take a flying kick to the chin from the top of a nearby building. Wolverine unfreezes.

Winners: Richard Dragon and a very confused Wolverine.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Originally posted by MadHatter
I see him freezing up wolverine, and having to sit there, concentrating at the properties of the incredibly hard, totally alien metal from the Marvel universe.

1) Cos has consistently moved around inertron with little effort which is the DC equivalent of adamantium (at least).

2) As previously noted, why bother locking down Logan in the first place when all he has to do is toss the guy around as a weapon or fling him a few blocks?

Btw, I never said Cos easily takes down Team Amazo. What I have said is that it's a good draw for Cos because he matches up well power-wise against this team.

Ghost - Superman not a strategizer and not someone who uses his x-ray vision to scan opponents? We must be reading different versions of Spit Curl because Kal is frequently shown using his vision powers to analyze opponents. Heck, sometimes I think it's just because the DC artists love drawing the "visible man" x-ray pics. :)

[Esper3k]

I vote for team Amazo. Cosmic Boy has never seemed all that tough to me, at least not the way Ronan, Superman, and Amazo would be. Sure Amazo is an android, but he's an android moving at Flash speeds. He could probably put a beatdown on Cosmic Boy at those speeds before CB could mount much of a defense. Or he could blast him with GL beams. Not to mention, Amazo, having the powers of MM would be able to mindlink all of his allies, allowing them to think and act together much more cohesively, as well as being able to attack the minds of his opponents who aren't trained in the mental arts.

Not to mention Richard Dragon would destroy Gambit in h2h :) Ronan would stomp Steel. If Cosmic Boy got taken out quickly, all that would be really left to fight Team Amazo would be Supes, who, admittedly, would put up a terrific fight, but I believe would eventually go down.

[GreatArelius1]

Goin with Gambit, Cosmic boy, Steel & Superman on this one.

[SteveRogers]

I'm sorry, but somehow I don't see Richard Dragon easily taking Gambit down as quickly as some of you are saying he would. Gambit, among other things, has natural agility, and charm doesn't just work on women, it works on men. He can talk his way out of fights in some cases, stall long enough for help if he needs it, or just go away unharmed in rare cases. I think Gambit has an up, it would be a hard-fought fight if anything.

[Maniac_nmt]

Untill team supes hits Loki, Thor, Juggernaut, or a heavy weight mentalist/magician, who is really going to stop them, seriously?

DC had to litterally create the worst and most contrived villian ever to beat superman, and then had to nerf superman to do it.

Seeing as Amazo is no DD for durability and strength, what's he gonna do, bleed on Kent? (and why do I get the sneaking suspician some of these voters will have an all physical team beat juggernaut?).

Don't you think there is a reason Superman is the most widely recognized hero in the whole world? Plus a large metal playground for a metal manipulator, sheesh....

[Maniac_nmt]

gambit doesn't have just natural agility, he has beyond human limits agility (I guess a few of you missed him making 3 pointers with his eyes closed, one handed upside down during some Xmen basketball games)

[thugit]

I'd love to see this one, just to watch Superman pimp slap that little chump Wolverine!!!


Team Superman, in a tough but eventually one-sided fight.

[Maniac_nmt]

the other trick here, that most are missing, Team supes is all heros, and 3 fliers, hence the odds of Gambit not being flown along are nill.

Team Amazo is two villians, a hero, and a neither. The villians aren't going to carry anyone.

Team Supes will always be able to bring full firepower to bear, Team Amazo will not.

[proditor]

Well, Richard Dragon gets little recognition (Though hopefully that will change with his new series) but he is the be all end all of the beat down. There are seriously only like 5 people that I think could compete with him, and only one that I think could consistently beat him in his general "weight class". The list of contenders would be: Iron Fist, Shang-Chi, Captain America, Taskmaster and Karnak. The one guy who could consistently beat him? Karate Kid.

[Gambit]

Originally posted by SteveRogers
I'm sorry, but somehow I don't see Richard Dragon easily taking Gambit down as quickly as some of you are saying he would. Gambit, among other things, has natural agility, and charm doesn't just work on women, it works on men. He can talk his way out of fights in some cases, stall long enough for help if he needs it, or just go away unharmed in rare cases. I think Gambit has an up, it would be a hard-fought fight if anything.

AHMEN TO THAT BROTHER!

I don't know why everyone counts Gambit out of fights. He has taken down Wolverine and put Sabretooth in critical condition! Gambit is a master of the bo-staff which helps him in close combat. Gambit also has a ranged attack which helps him defeat Dragon.

[proditor]

If he manages to hit Richard Dragon at range, Gambit has a chance. Close up he'd get annihilated.

[SilverAgeFlash]

Not to mention for Dragon to get to Gambit he will have to be dodging exploding cars and falling buildings and such as exploded cards are being flung. By the time he gets to gambit( if he does) he should be pretty tore up.

[supermangl1]

Team work wins it for Team Supes, like Manaic said.
Amazo will do what Amazo wants, not what is best for the team, I'd imagine likewise for Ronan. Richard Dragon being the only sensible one in the group.

[Rokk_Krinn]

All this talk about Amazo, there's something I'm really hoping the Amazing Android considers: that heat-vision or even an exploding gasmain is going to _ruin_ his day. Amazo doesn't just duplicate powers, he duplicates weaknesses as well. It's been a regular way the JLA has taken down the Awesome Android and in this case, he's got a weakness to heat and fire (well, and the colour yellow ;) ). Why do I think someone named Superman might just have a power that can take advantage of that factor?

[Maniac_nmt]

mmmmm.....Amazo flambe'.....

[Spyder-Man]

I'm going to vote for Amazo and friends, even without having the ability to copy other powers I think the 5 JLAers in one would drop Superman, especially with one of them being MM. Dragon could defiantely drop Gambit and I think Ronan could eventually take out Steel. Cosmic Boy could do a number on Wolverine which would leave at the very least Amazo and Dragon against him and I don't think he'll be able to stand up to that.

[Swiftspeedster]

Have I missed something this is the PRE-crisis AMAZO version mean that all of the said people he is duplicating have been severely downgraded and yes Superman might be faster than AMAZO. Barry was slower during pre-crisis and most of the races between Flash and Supes was between him and Wally and Wally tends to be a little faster than Barry. Thus said Wally Barely beats supes POST-crisis. this is just a technicality and I'm fairly certain Supes is a little slower. That being said I believe that Superman can beat AMAZO he knows exactly who he is and he is facing a much more timid AMAZO than the post-crisis one. MM's powers have not been brought up significantly he was pretty weak as I remember at that stage (sorta) Superman knows all the weaknesses he has to exploit to take this guy down.

If everyone on their team had to fight their counterpart I would vote the other way in a second, but COS remember is a Great leader and will not be taken so easily. He will not remain grounded and he will be pretty devastating I am pretty mich voting cuz he will be backing the team in leadership while Superman is off dealing with AMAZO.

I agree that Gambit would fall to Dragon, he takes out Metas/mutants, but it won't be so easy as everyone thinks, Remy will put up a fight probably long enough for Cos to tie up Dragon. Wolvie well it will be a fast ball special for him he probably just won't like it when Cos is the pitcher.

oh and if your looking for the short answer Superman team for the win.

[EVIL CAP]

w00t im back after a week vacation and way behind on all the tournies :)

Ill go with Supermans tream here.Amazo is tough but the powers he will commonally use with this JLA team arent up to Sups par and he rarely uses all his abilties very well.The big clincher here will be Cosmic Boy being able to take out wolverine so easily and being able to make life miserable for any of the other members of the team.Past that Steel is a fairly underrated guy himself more like a budget Iron Man

[DarthDoom]

cajincosmicsupersteel team wins...SO SPEAKS DOOM.

[Prof. Aragorn]

meh, I'll vote the team with Superman on it. If Cosmi-lad can do cool stuff with metal, it's fastball special--the steel way. As well as a bunch of other fancy stuff. Supes and Amazo will tie eachother up a fair amount of the fight leaving Steel to fight Ronan, Cosmic Boy to fastball Wolvy out and the Rajun Cajun to just drop. Of course by the time Wolvy's out, Cosmi-lad will double team Steel to drop Ronan as the two desperately try to stop Richard-but I see them losing it. Supes and Amazo will fight but Supes will get mad and drop Amazo eventually. Leaving Richard vs. Clark (a poed Supes vs. a hurtin' Dragon)
My vote-Superman, Steel, Cosmi-lad, and Remy

[Rando]

I vote team Superman

Steel can fight Ronan for some time, and Superman should be able to beat Amazo. Amazo has some neat powers but he is really bad with them, plus he has a fire weakness that Superman knows about before hand, Superman blasts his (Superman's) arm with heat vision and sets that part of his costume of fire, weakening Amazo down to almost nothing and creams him, heck superman could just fly up with a flaming stick, just seeing fire tears up Manhunter it doesn't have to touch him. Assuming the fire stuff doesn't work you i still think superman should win, Amazo usually just flys up and hits peole, occasionally throwing energy, when he had nearly 200 powers in a one-shot (including all of the above, plus Superman, but with a better Flash) he just flew around shooting energy beams at people. Cosmic Boy will probably help Gambit out, not because Gambit is a huge asset, but because Cos is a nice guy, if Superman gives Cosmic the heads up on Wovlerine's position before the fight gets going cos should get him pretty quick. Otherwise Gambit can just stand in the center of a rooftop and cosmic Boy can hover over the rooof, noone can sneak across an open surface that u can see down onto, and both Richard and wolverine have to close up to be effective. Once The Gambit situation is under control Cosmic Boy starts tugging on Ronan's hammer thing, having planned this attack out before hand with Steel, Steel also helps out with disarming style attacks, eventually the two of them get the thing away from Ronan, then Cosmic Boy floats the hammer over to Steel who proceeds to pound on Ronan with hammers ackimbo, that should remove Ronan. Double Hammer Steel, card throwing Gambit, and car slinging Cosmic Boy help Superman finish off Amazo.

[Fat Ninja]

SUPERMAN and co.

[Ghost Ripper]

Originally posted by Rokk_Krinn


Ghost - Superman not a strategizer and not someone who uses his x-ray vision to scan opponents? We must be reading different versions of Spit Curl because Kal is frequently shown using his vision powers to analyze opponents. Heck, sometimes I think it's just because the DC artists love drawing the "visible man" x-ray pics. :)

I never said SuperMan Doesn't strategize. What I said was, that Supes never strategizes first before wading into some fight or any fight for that matter. He believes himself to be indestructable, so why bother with a plan. How much plan did he give to taking out Doomsday after Doomsday single handedly took out the JLA. He just flew down after Booster Told him what happend and took a punch to the Gut like nothing. After Fighting, and Realizing Doomsday was going to have to take thought to beat instead of raw power then he started strategizing, but not before. Another issure superman Returns, the first issue he's back with long hair and in his rugular big blue suit. He fights some guy robbing a bank that can Phase. Superman once again wades in takes out the cronies and proceedes to get disrupted by this guy. So, after might is not makeing right he thinks/strategizes. If I hit this guy with enough speed I can cause a ripple in the air enough to knock him back, then cleverly says, "Ever been hit by a Title Wave." Trust me he wouldn't be strategizeing much even if he looked them over with X-ray vision. He'd say I'll take Amazo, he's the toughest and ya'll can handle the rest. He's sort of like a Cavalier in D&D, he has to take the Biggest and Baddest guy. I really can't remember him going after little peons when a Big Boy is lurking about.

[Ghost Ripper]

Furthermore I want to add that in the Singles battles so many people were not one-sided in picking Superman over Kyle Rainer. People were saying he could make kyrptonite because MM gave him the compostion and he knows how to make it. O.K. so why can't Amazo access that knowledge of MM knowing the composition of Kryptonite and using the GL ring to make it.
Also, if so many were ready to say just 1 GL could take superman then why not the whole JLA in 1 person. The Green Lantern power is really powerful and so many people rush to defend it, like they'll probably be doing when Kyle or Hal step up to the plate to fight, but here, people disregard the power like bahhh GL power Bahh. What's up with that.
Another thing, Amazo has either Black Canary's sonic Scream which as far as I know Superman, Cosmic Boy, and Gambit aren't immune to and probably not steel depending on his Helmet. So Amazo does a Sonic Scream and Boom 3 or the 4 are taken out immeditately and Supes is the only one left.
Something else is, this isn't like a 4 people step up and face the other 4, there'll be someone hiding, lurking in the shadows, waiting to pounce. People are thinking that it's just going to be a old western gun shoot out and it's not. I see Superman, Cosmic Boy, Steel running straight into the battle, and Gambit lurking around to do what he does. Meanwhile, Wolverine will be lurking and probably withe RD. Wolverine will sniff out Cajuna and Tag he's down. Amazo Sonic Screams and Cosmic is Down, Steel maybe, and SuperMan is in Pain clutching ears. Ronan takes out Steel with Amazo GL Enhanced Cosmic Rod *BOOM* Steel's Down and Supes is the only one left. Sorry Supes Game over.
Finally, Amazo is short for Amazing. Superman was taken so whats better than Super.....AMAZING..thus AMAZO. This probably doesn't make a lick of diffrence in the name but it's still funny to think about.

[Esper3k]

and with Superman's Super-hearing, that sonic scream would probably hurt him more than it'd hurt the rest.

[supermangl1]

I serious doubt that the Canary Cry ould hurt SUpes that much. It's not like Wolverine senistive hearing, but who has normal pain receptors, it would hurt Wolvie, not Supes. (Unless Mid-Nite did that thing with the vocal cords again) But Amazo does use the powers to their full extant. Unless Supes got nailed with a full force Cry, I don't think it would slow him too much.

[Ghost Ripper]

It doesn't have to slow him down to much just take out the Rest of his Team, which is what people are banking on to take out the Amazo Team.

Sorry guys AMAZO TEAM Takes it, and only b/c of the Sonic Cry that puts 3 Supes Team Members down Immediately.

[coad14]

team amazo.

[Ghost Ripper]

I have the Votes so far standing at:
Team Amazo with 15 votes
Team Supes with 20 votes

If someone could double check that'd be great.

[Laenan]

I just wanted to throw out there that I think this format rocks.

But how much range does the cry actually have? It's powerful, but can it slag stuff at a distance.

[ex0dus]

i vote team superman ONLY because it appears amazo does not have the strength level of each of those JLAers current day.

[Ghost Ripper]

So, you are saying that After AMAZO Sonic Booms Steel, Cosmic Boy and Gambit into Unconciousness. Supes can take AMAZO, RONAN and Wolverine? RD won't be able to do squat unless Amazo puts him into a GL Force Field and lets him attack with that on.

[Ghost Ripper]

So, you are saying that After AMAZO Sonic Booms Steel, Cosmic Boy and Gambit into Unconciousness, Supes can take AMAZO, RONAN and Wolverine? RD won't be able to do squat unless Amazo puts him into a GL Force Field and lets him attack with that on.

[gladiator1518]

Originally posted by Ghost Ripper
Furthermore I want to add that in the Singles battles so many people were not one-sided in picking Superman over Kyle Rainer. People were saying he could make kyrptonite because MM gave him the compostion and he knows how to make it. O.K. so why can't Amazo access that knowledge of MM knowing the composition of Kryptonite and using the GL ring to make it.
Also, if so many were ready to say just 1 GL could take superman then why not the whole JLA in 1 person. The Green Lantern power is really powerful and so many people rush to defend it, like they'll probably be doing when Kyle or Hal step up to the plate to fight, but here, people disregard the power like bahhh GL power Bahh. What's up with that. Doesn't the ring have a weakness to yellow?? Superman definately has some yellow on his costume.

[DTM]

Originally posted by UXMGambit
I'm gonna have to go with the Supes fact due to the fact that Gambit can blow up Amazo, Comic Boy can TK Ronan's hamer away and Supes can take of him and the rest are pretty much history.

VOTE= Gambit, Supes, Cosmic Boy, and Steel.


Uh, I voted Team Superman too, but saying Gambit can blow up Amazo, and so casually at that, is like saying Jubilee can blow up Superman.

[Maniac_nmt]

sure, because if you're that ludicrous with Amazo, then Supes superspeed slams wolvie, rd, and ronan right out of the fight in one pass, and then it's just him and Amazo, and supes will win that 9 times out of 10.

[DTM]

Originally posted by KingBlackBolt
Not Black Bolt ;) Yeah wolverine would have trouble with cosmic boy but I thought since a lot of the buildings are comprised of steel and there is metal everywhere that it may be easier for wolverine. Also if wolverine could sneak up on him it would be around 4 out of 10 times maybe a little more if they could distract cosmic boy. But also how would gambitknow wolverine was there if he was sneaking around? Or are the teams notified of who they are going up against?

Before the planning stage, each of the teams are notified who specifically they are fighting. So while Gambit wouldnt know where Wolverine was during the battle, since they do start 1 mile away and Logan is an EXPERT at Stealth, he WOULD be able to tell his teammate CB that Wolvies bones are metal and have him scan around for him, in the AIR.

[DTM]

Originally posted by Maniac_nmt
Untill team supes hits Loki, Thor, Juggernaut, or a heavy weight mentalist/magician, who is really going to stop them, seriously?

DC had to litterally create the worst and most contrived villian ever to beat superman, and then had to nerf superman to do it.

Seeing as Amazo is no DD for durability and strength, what's he gonna do, bleed on Kent? (and why do I get the sneaking suspician some of these voters will have an all physical team beat juggernaut?).

Don't you think there is a reason Superman is the most widely recognized hero in the whole world? Plus a large metal playground for a metal manipulator, sheesh....

Personally, and again I voted Team Superman, one on one I see Amazo beating Superman more than not. I ONLY vote Superman here since I believe Cosmic Boy will waste Wolverine (ONLY due to his metal bones) easily, and then join in the aerial battle above. Amazo is strong, but hes still metal, and even if Cosmic Boy can slow Amazo down, just a little, I think Superman can take him from there. BUT, in a straight up one on one battle, Superman vs Amazo, my moneys on Amazo.

[Grinner]

Originally posted by Silver Lantern
I think you're underestimating the Lasso. It alone is better than Canary. ;)
He also gets the deflection Bracers, which can be used to deflect Supes heat vision beams negating his ranged attack vs. Amazo.

Yes, if it was actually Diana's lasso instead of a copy ;)

And he can negate the heat vision with the ring (and has).

Originally posted by supermangl1
And if they needed maybe Gambit couldn't charge up all of Amazo, but in a few seconds he could charge his hand or head.

Which, again, would require Amazo to just stand there doing nothing.

Originally posted by KingBlackBolt
O i just thought of another question. How does a metal robot absorb say martian manhunters invulnerability if the metal can be damaged?

Because he's not a klanky metal-skinned robot like people seem to be thinking. He's a synthetic android, probably more akin to something like Vision or Data.

Originally posted by Rokk_Krinn
All this talk about Amazo, there's something I'm really hoping the Amazing Android considers: that heat-vision or even an exploding gasmain is going to _ruin_ his day. Amazo doesn't just duplicate powers, he duplicates weaknesses as well. It's been a regular way the JLA has taken down the Awesome Android and in this case, he's got a weakness to heat and fire (well, and the colour yellow ). Why do I think someone named Superman might just have a power that can take advantage of that facto

Except we've seen several occassions where Kal's heat vision just bounced off of Amazo. And while the fire will take away J'onn's powers it doesn't shut off the others, nor does it incapacitate him like fire does to MM.

Originally posted by gladiator1518
Doesn't the ring have a weakness to yellow?? Superman definately has some yellow on his costume.

But there never was enough yellow on it to protect him from Hal's ring...

[DTM]

Originally posted by Rando
I vote team Superman

Steel can fight Ronan for some time, and Superman should be able to beat Amazo. Amazo has some neat powers but he is really bad with them, plus he has a fire weakness that Superman knows about before hand, Superman blasts his (Superman's) arm with heat vision and sets that part of his costume of fire, weakening Amazo down to almost nothing and creams him, heck superman could just fly up with a flaming stick, just seeing fire tears up Manhunter it doesn't have to touch him. Assuming the fire stuff doesn't work you i still think superman should win, Amazo usually just flys up and hits peole, occasionally throwing energy, when he had nearly 200 powers in a one-shot (including all of the above, plus Superman, but with a better Flash) he just flew around shooting energy beams at people. Cosmic Boy will probably help Gambit out, not because Gambit is a huge asset, but because Cos is a nice guy, if Superman gives Cosmic the heads up on Wovlerine's position before the fight gets going cos should get him pretty quick. Otherwise Gambit can just stand in the center of a rooftop and cosmic Boy can hover over the rooof, noone can sneak across an open surface that u can see down onto, and both Richard and wolverine have to close up to be effective. Once The Gambit situation is under control Cosmic Boy starts tugging on Ronan's hammer thing, having planned this attack out before hand with Steel, Steel also helps out with disarming style attacks, eventually the two of them get the thing away from Ronan, then Cosmic Boy floats the hammer over to Steel who proceeds to pound on Ronan with hammers ackimbo, that should remove Ronan. Double Hammer Steel, card throwing Gambit, and car slinging Cosmic Boy help Superman finish off Amazo.

Does Amazo REALLY have all their weaknesses as well, in the comics I mean not the cartoon? Ive NEVER heard of Amazo being beaten by lighting a match near him and then a single punch from Superman. If he does have Jonns weakness to fire, he would be INCREDIBLY easy for the JLA to beat and I dont think hes made that way.

[DreadDormammu]

I voted Team Amazo because Ronan is underweighted... he should be a SHW. This is a guy that was more than a match for the combined Fantastic Four. I see the fight this way:

Amazo and Superman engage each other.
Ronan defeats Steel and Cosmic Boy and Gambit in a total of 10-15 seconds.
Ronan and Amazo team up on Superman and win.
Richard Dragon and Wolverine chat and get ready for round 2.

[DreadDormammu]

Originally posted by DTM
Does Amazo REALLY have all their weaknesses as well, in the comics I mean not the cartoon?No, he does not. Also, Barry Allen is definitely a lot faster than Superman pre- or post-Crisis. How good is Amazo's golden lasso? If it is magic that could put a big hurtin' on Supes... with Flash's speed it wouldn't be hard to wrap him up either.

[DTM]

DD, is Cosmic Boy has such powerful magnetic abilities, whats to stop him from just pulling the Cosmic Rod away from Ronan, making him MUCH WEAKER, and allowing Steel to easily KO him?

Im sorry, but I dont think Ronan is all that powerful, certainly not in the SHW class. Weve seen Blastaar battle the entire FF, and Annihilus, and even Dr. Doom, but I wouldnt put them in the same weight class as Superman, Thor, Silver Surfer and Green Lantern. Plus, Steel is TOUGH, a near, but not quite, equal to Iron Man, who is one of the most powerful in the HWs.

[DTM]

ALSO, it was stated early on this Amazo does NOT have Wonder Womans powers, but Black Canarys instead.


Current Voting Totals:

Team Superman - 23 votes
Team Amazo - 13 votes

[Gentlegamer]

Gambit, Cosmic Boy, Steel, Superman

[DreadDormammu]

Oops, forgot Wonder Woman wasn't a founder anymore. Although "only" having the powers of Flash, Green Lantern and Martian Manhunter isn't much of a limitation.

I'm not sure we know if the Universal Weapon is metal, much less ferrous metal. Either way, I don't think Cosmic Boy could take it from Ronan.:

"His special armor contains a powered exoskeleton which increases his strength even further...making him almost as strong as the Thing.

"The Universal Weapon uses cosmic energy in some as yet unknown manner to create a variety of effects, controlled by its wielder's will. Among the many capabilities of the Universal Weapon are the disintegration, rearrangement, and transmutation of matter, the projection of concussive energy, the absorption of energy, control over gravity, the creation of force fields and "time-motion displacement fields," and interstellar teleportation along hyperspatial passages.

"Ronan's armor augments his strength and affords him a measure of invulnerability to the Universal Weapon's effects. The armor can also project an "aura of negativism" about him, rendering him invisible. His gauntlets can generate sufficient coldness to place certain lifeforms in suspended animation."

He's ridiculous. And he's a ruthless member of a warlike race so it wouldn't be out of character for him to just annihilate enemies. He could go invisible and disintegrate half the enemy team before they knew what hit them for example. On raw strength alone he could pulverize Steel pretty quickly.

[DTM]

Why DD. His Armor gives him Thing level strength, Class 85 to 90, how strong to you think Steel is? Id certainly bet hes in that level as well.

Also, didnt Captain Mar-Vell battle Ronan quite effectively, and CM is definately no SHW.

I just dont think the Ronan v Steel battle is going to be a slaughter, not at all.

[Q99]

But how much range does the cry actually have? It's powerful, but can it slag stuff at a distance.

It can be fairly focused and have good range (she managed to K-O every human in the White House with Dr. Mid-night's help to stretch her vocal cords), 'specially if she really yells, but it becomes less effective against Super-beings at those distances of course.

[DreadDormammu]

Originally posted by DTM
Why DD. His Armor gives him Thing level strength, Class 85 to 90, how strong to you think Steel is? Id certainly bet hes in that level as well.You can't rate Marvel bricks by those lifting numbers. It has often been admitted that they were made up for the Handbook series and there are many many instances of characters lifting far more than the Handbook said they could. My experience of Steel is mostly from JLA and in that comic, Steel is rarely very physically powerful. Certainly not on par with someone who can solo the FF.

[Q99]

Steel wasn't bad. Superman (or Steel, for that matter) had no problem with the two of them charging a superheavyweight foe under the plan of 'Full power!'. He certainly can hit hard and take some punishment, it's just that since the JLA generally has 3+ people who can do that much better, he's the techie/in reserve, because that's what he's best at.

[DTM]

Well, I wasnt making a tonage level of strength, just a Class level, which does fit without putting overall lifting weight behind it.

To me, I certainly see Steel having such strength, along with a powerful ranged attack, flight, and brains better than most around. While Im not saying Steel would win, I am saying it wouldnt be a slaughter in Ronans favor.

Besides, how long ago did Ronan ALONE fight the FF, you dont think the FF have gotten more powerful since then? YOu think Ronan TODAY could go toe to toe with the entire FF? I personally dont think so.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Yes, Amazo _has_ been shown to adapt the specific weaknesses of the JLA'ers he's duplicating and while he won't keel over from flame like Manhunter (because of the other people in his system, presumably) the fire would at least sap away his Manhunter powers. Still leaves a tough opponent, but not an invulnerable one. Oh, and about the power ring - it's a replica, not one that actually taps into the Oan Power Battery so not only is it going to be weaker can anyone here honestly argue that Amazo has willpower up there with even Guy let alone Hal? Heck, if someone told me G'nort had more willpower behind that ring I wouldn't be surprised. ;)

DD - the Cosmic Rod doesn't have to be ferrous as Cos's powers have been shown to affect non-ferrous metals. That exoskeleton I would gamble is most certainly metal - and thus a ready made container for Ronan if we want to go that route.

Steel is a powerhouse. His appearances in "JLA" were more thinker than fighter (though a hammer that increases per distance traveled is nothing to laugh off) but his strength range is still not insignificant. I guess for all the RPG lovers out there we can use the last version of the DC RPG which had Steel's armoured strength at 14D which is twice that of Aquaman's dice pool and comparable to the android Hourman's "Hour of Power" or Ubermensch (the Golden Age Superman knock-off) from Axis America. Ronan, by the way, solo's the FF because of that rod. Take it away and he'd fall with no trouble.

[Rando]

I think Dormammu is pretty clsoe to on the money with Ronan and Steel. Ronan has rumbled with the Silver Surfer, he lost, but he still fought for a few pages, he has been portrayed to my mind to be significantly more dnagerous than Iron Man, who is in turn better than Steel. If Steel is gonna win that fight he needs Cosmic Boy to help him with a disarm Steel will get killed off fairly handily otherwise.

[DTM]

Possibly, but again Cosmic Boy can help him, and still stay far enough away from both battles to protect his own hide.

[chase_jyd]

Normally I'd give it to Amazo over Superman certainly, and Amazo's team in general, except that Cosmic Boy's powers are specifically quite effective against the opponents.

Wolverine has had obvious troubles with magnetism. Ronan also depends on armor and his weapon. Even if the latter wouldn't be affected, the former gives him more trouble. And Amazo is an android. Somewhere in there I'd think would be something affected by magnetic powers, at least enough so that the rest of Team Superman can take advantage.

He couldn't take down the other team by himself, but he gives his team a huge advantage, and all but Gambit are team players enough to use that very effectively.

[mick77]

team Amazo
Amazo with all of is powers (espacially MM) can take Superman
Wolverine should take Gambit
Ronan should take Steel
I don't know the 2 others to know who would win, But if it's Wolverine, Amazo and Ronan vs cosmic boy, he'll go down real hard

[Zephyr Dude]

Team Amazo

[BAKID]

I vote team Superman.

Steel and Supes are great friends, and Irons can usually come up with some plan to give his team an advantage, especially against technological foes. I seriously doubt he has not worked on and filed away "plans for taking out Amazo" at some point. Plus, I can see a lot more potential for teamwork on Team Superman. Gambit can charge up bits of metal, or even steel girders, and then Cosmic Boy can fling them at Ronan or Amazo. Kaboom. That's gonna hurt. I don't see why even Gambit would be on the ground. Cosmic Boy could figure out some way to levitate him, and then neither Wolverine or Dragon could get to any opponents without help.

The one item NOT in Supes' favor is that Gambit probably has less than half a clue who Ronan is (I don't think he's fought the X-men much) so Amazo's team will have more complete intelligence on their opponents. Still, I don't think this will be enough of an advantage. I think in a total "poof" battle, Amazo would be much more difficult to stop, but Superman is pretty hard to beat with Steel covering his technological blind spots.

[BAKID]

(responing to some GL vs. Supes comments)

If Amazo had Kyle Rayner's GL ring instead of whatever fascimile he actually has, then he would have significantly more power at his disposal. Kyle has contained stars going nova (in Morrison's JLA run) and created black holes and miniature red suns (which gave Superman some problems). But since this is a copy, I don't think it has quite the same capabilities as an Oan ring (or the yellow rings their Qwardian counterparts make). Has Amazo ever used his GL powers for any of the phasing/invisibility/illusion tricks Hal and Kyle use so often? I can't recall any examples off the top of my head. I would say Amazo's power ring is about the same level as Star Sapphire's powers--creating simple constructs and energy bolts, tk'ing things around, and similar feats.

[brendanbrown]

Wouldn't Amazo or richard dragon know ANYTHING about Cosmic Boy? if they knew that he had magnatism powers, they could use some of their prep time to figure out how to counter it, or just decide that ronan should go for CB while amazo wrestles with steel and superman, Ronan would defeat CB Fairly easily and could help with steel and Supes. Wolvie and Richie could definately take out gambit, but wouldnt do much to Steel or supes. Also, Does Gambit know about Ronan enough to be able to tell the other 3 DCers that his staff is his main power source?

[DTM]

Well, Cosmic Boy is from the FAR future, so I doubt Richard Dragon would have any clue who he is. Possibly Amazo, not sure on that one.

[Q99]

It should be noted the Legion has occasionally travelled back in time. They were on Earth at the time of the Suneater/Final Night event, for example, and their help might've been noted to help prevent panic.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Richard Dragon tends to live in a cabin in the woods while Amazo's "memory" is whatever he'd be programmed with at the time. If this Amazo is from the "Original Five Leaguers" that would be prior to the Final Night event. Considering the number of Big Gun heroes - Superman, Wonder Woman (and in the public's eye: Lex Luthor) - that were involved in Final Night I would find it unlikely Cosmic Boy got much (if any) television focus (especially as half the time when the LSH'ers showed up people would go, "Who are you?" and then Superman would have to vouch for them).

[Ignatz_Mouse]

Richard Dragon, Wolverine, Ronan the Accuser, Amazo (original 5 JLA members)

VS.

Gambit, Cosmic Boy, Steel, Superman


I'm going to vote Team Amazo even though this is probably too late. I don't think Cos is going to be affecting Amazo when he's busy with Wolverine (who he'll be able to keep busy easily). And I think Amazo will run over Superman like a truck. He's Martian Manhunter plus a power ring. What more does he need?

Ronan and Stell should be an amusing match, but I give the edge to Ronan, who's more of an all-out power guy.

[DTM]

Never too late to vote as long as were still in the same Round, IM. You should know that. :)

Wolverine keep Cosmic Boy busy? How? CB flies and can sense Wolverine coming, a moving metal huma sized object, a mile away.

[Gentlegamer]

Can't Superman just disband the JLA and shut down Amazo? lol

[thedon09]

I' voting team Amazo. With Ronan and Amazo, they're too much, even for Superman. :)

[Ignatz_Mouse]

DTM: I meant too late in terms of my vote meaning anything.

I suppose I worded that wrong-- Cosmic Boy will keep Wolverine busy easily. Ambiguous pronoun.

What's the score, anyway? I have not waded through the whole thread.

[SpakSpang]

TEAM SUPERMAN.

Cosmic Boy is going to have a field day with Wolverine...actually he probably won't even worry about him...He will be too busy helping Superman with Amazo. Then turn around and as a team Steel, Superman and Cosmic Boy will Spank the remaining Team Amazo.

[DTM]

Current Voting Totals:

Team Superman - 27 votes
Team Amazo - 17 votes