Troy - review and spoilers at end

[Maniac_nmt]

Okay, I'm a big fan of the Illiad. It's my favorite story of all time, so naturally on seeing the trailers, and all for this movie I was unbelievably stoked. This was THE movie I wanted to see this summer/spring. It did so much right, but got so much wrong.

The film makers decided to leave the greek gods out of the film to save time, and I was fine with that going into the movie. So that really doesn't bother me one way or the other.

The scenery was excellent, the barren plain was there, along with Troy's massive walls, the ocean, the palaces, that was all spectacular. The armor was great, and well done. Not necessarily period perfect, but no one would understand what they were wearing if it were, and it did capture a lot of the essance of armor from that time. The actors all had their roles down very well. Sean Bean makes a good Odyseus, Brad Pitt is actually very good as Achillies, Brian Cox, Eric Bana, Orlando Bloom, and especially Peter O'toole. The relationships are all done out fairly well.

The action is simply awesome, no really, I mean awesome. Definately at the top of well done fight/action scenes in movies.

So what's the problem? From the very first part of the movie you will notice things wrong with the story, by the second battle piece in front of Troy it's gone horribly, horribly wrong. At times it seems to get back on track, and then it falls all apart again. Argh.....why oh why did they need to 'hollywoodize' the script!?!?!?!? The story has endured for over 3000 years! Don't you think that says it pretty much needs NO changes. How can you be so vain as to think you could improve on it? Dah! That ruined what could have been one of the best movies of all time.:cry: :cry:

Spoilers to follow:























The movie goes a little wobbly with Achillies being a soldier in Agamemnon's army long before the Trojan war. It's cool though, his fight is worth this error. So you get past that going okay, I can deal with it. Brises is the daughter of Priam (huh!?), and she's taken in the opening battle scene. Day one of the whole battle starts off with Agamemnon taking her from Achillies. Still not to bad, it's off, but okay, for the sake of getting it in under 3 hours, okay. Then When Menalaus fights Paris in front of Troy at the start of the war, it all goes pear shaped (to borrow a british saying). Hector actually kills Menalaus right there. WHAT!? WHAT THE BLOODY HELL!? To top it off, Ajax dies in this seen as well, slain by Hector! WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON!? Partrolus is killed by Hector, okay, good, but then he doesn't take his armor??? Achillies rides up and challenges him to single combat???? Doesn't get the armor of Hesphasteus?? Where is the vengence mad Achillies who slays like half the Trojan army to get to Hector? Then Achillies actually survives to enter Troy in the Trojan horse!? Paris lives and takes Helen with him!? Agamemnon dead in the sacking of Troy!? Aneas a total unknown to Paris!? AUGH! Why change these things, much could have been done without the gods, and still had them follow the plot.

[GroovyBoy]

Well, it's not politically correct to kill off elves these days, which is why Bloom gets away.

I think the burning question that most people have is: But does Ajax the LESSER live?

[odieses]

I have the same sentiments here. They should have stuck with the original story it would have made a really kick ### movie other than that i thought it was a good movie. IF they stuck to the original story through and through it would have been one of the best of all time but instead we get chopped up and remade version which is good but not what i came in expecting. I give the movie a B-

[odieses]

On second thought i'll give this a C because they made this movie so different from the Iliad. Acting was good dialogue ok and special effects were pretty good. Again they should have stuck to the original story it would have this film excellent.

[skeevo666]

I dunno, I think fair warning was given when the move was titled Troy not The Iliad . . .


I enjoyed the heck out of it & am taking my nephews to see it tomorrow or Sunday :) :cool: :)

[CarlosMucha]

bad bad movie, all the movie for say "Brad Pitt/Aquiles is a good guy"

much much bether is Helen of Troy.

question: that cousen is actualy a invention no?

[Dr Mid-Knight]

Shouldn't Ajax live to contest Odyseus for Achillies armor?

[CarlosMucha]

skeevo666 the name must be "Achillies" and no Troy

Achiellies in the Homeros history is a warrior no a good guy, he like the battle and the war and the glory in the movie is, well, Brad Pitt, a good guy movie star.:tired:

[Maniac_nmt]

there is no Ajax the lesser, no Diomedes, no Sarpedon, Aneas is an after thought, no Clytamenstra, no fighting over Achillies body, etc.

I wasn't expecting a complete illiad, 3 hours is to short, but it could have been handled very differently. I mean Menalaus dieing right of the bat basically makes the entire story pointless at that stage. They could just as easily had a dust devil or something cross the plain and seperate them.

The movie made Paris and Helen's adultery something that was okay, and accetable. Making them into almost heros. There is a reason Paris is an archer in the Illiad, as archers at that time are cowards, and not worthy of respect.

[CarlosMucha]

bad baaadd movie.

[skeevo666]

Originally posted by CarlosMucha
Achiellies in the Homeros history is a warrior no a good guy, he like the battle and the war and the glory in the movie is, well, Brad Pitt, a good guy movie star.:tired:


Upon second viewing the credit inspired by Homer's "The Iliad" stands out.


If they said "based upon" or "adapted from" you'd have more cause to be offended at the changes made for this movie . . .



Hollywood is as Hollywood does (blind Grecian poets be ####ed) ;)

[dj_sha]

I liked the movie (though I haven't read the Iliad), though after studying ancient western history this whole year, a lot of the war scenes seemed to have problems.

Did the Greeks and Trojans actually have longbows back then? The bows seemed like longbows, since they were able to fire at such a rapid pace and such a far distance. Longbows were created by the English right before the Hundred Years War, long after the Trojan War.

And what was with the "flaming tumbleweed" scene? The whole thing made no sense. Firing flaming arrows (hundreds of them in seconds, which could only be done with the longbow) onto the ground and then rolling giant tumbleweeds onto the flames (very small flames which probably would have burned out by then) and have the giant tumbleweeds turn into blazing inferno's in mere seconds. The whole thing was very inaccurate.

Other then those nitpicks, the rest of the movie was great. Of course, I can't compare it to the Iliad, so I may be giving it too much credit.

[Maniac_nmt]

actually archery in general was EXTREMELY rare at the time of the Illiad.

It was a cowards weapon, in fact the greeks only have one archer, or at least only one is mentioned. He uses Hercules' bow.

The massed archer stuff is out of left field. They would have had lots of slingers, or javilen throwers.

[skeevo666]

Who moved my peltasts? ;)

[GroovyBoy]

Originally posted by Maniac_nmt
there is no Ajax the lesser, no Diomedes, no Sarpedon, Aneas is an after thought, no Clytamenstra, no fighting over Achillies body, etc.



I was kinda joking about the Ajax the Lesser comment, but for you to throw out a list without even mentioning Nestor is unforgivable...

[GroovyBoy]

And how come nobody ever mentions the incredible BAD thing about the Illiad? It's incomplete, for crying out loud! To find out what happened to everybody, you have to pour through the Oddysey, the Aeneid, and a dozen other sources...

[CREED]

Conan has also referred to the bow as a woman's weapon.Remember however that Odysseus was a great hero AND a very accomplished archer.I saw the movie last night and other than brian cox thinking he was performing onstage and overdramatizing I liked the film a bunch.It's been too long since I read the source material,but I was entertained and thought Pitt and Bana did very well.GO SEE IT!

[Thwap Man]

As long as we're including Ovid now, there's the Fan Fiction of the Heroides...

Anyhoo. I look at this movie basically as what it is. They took the characters of The Iliad and made up another story about them. I mean, God knows it wasn't anything close to what Homer was talking about. I think if they took out some of the stuff with Paris' and Hector's cousin, and put in the wacko Cassandra, it could have been cuter. Plus, have Achilles tear through the army to get to Hector, die, get paraded around the walls, and have word of his death fly through the Greek army to demoralize them completely. I'd be happier if Ajax didn't die, even if they didn't go into him fighting with Odysseus. In Ovid's Aeneid, Aeneas kicks a whole lot of ### on his way out of the city. That would've been neat-o.

So, all in all, I was looking at this as Hollywood's Troy, rather than Homer's Iliad. It had a lot of potential, which it wasted, but it was still entertaining.

[coyotejack]

I agree with skeevo666, the movie was inspired by and not based upon. Personally I loved the movie, despite the obvious changes. One of the things that my wife and I discussed was the fact that it was the first movie in years that I didn't think of Brad Pitt as...Brad Pitt. I enjoyed his Achilles thoroughly. As far Eric Bana: awesome. He was an excellent Hector and his emotions were truly genuine. You actually cared about him and his family. Peter O'Toole was a pleasant surprise because I didn't know he was in it! Excellent work by him as always.
I look at the movie like this: it's a taste. Whet the appetites of the uninitiated and make them hunger for more and perhaps they'll go read to get their fill. As for those of us that are familiar with the stories, I still think it gives us an entertaining and rather interesting different perspective of an ages old story.

[Dr Mid-Knight]

I think... you may be over-doing it a bit. I never read the Iliad but am an avid fan of mythology (all I know about the battle of Troy was from Age of Mythology lol). But this movie carried a lot of weight and carried it far. I was content with everything about it and took it for what it was. Not a direct from the book Iliad but a new epic hollywood movie about war. Take it for what it is and it's the best film since LOTR: FOTR in my opinion (I make a clear distinction between movies and films, Snatch and Kill Bill are movies and Troy and LOTR are films).

Brad Pitt furthered his God of acting reputation by playing something else completely... think about it. His only role even remotely to this epic scale was in Interview with the Vampire. Eric Bana stole this movie though.

And Carlos, for the love of god man, gain some perspective...

[skeevo666]

Originally posted by coyotejack
Peter O'Toole was a pleasant surprise because I didn't know he was in it! Excellent work by him as always.




When he got his honorary Oscar last year, he said he still hoped to earn one with a specific performance.

I think with Troy he just might have . . .

[coyotejack]

Agreed. I'd love to see it.

[genkigemini]

Just to jump in here, I thought Troy was fabulous. Although I have only ever read bits of the Iliad, the movie has made me want to go back and read it throughly. (What there is of it, at least.)

I thought the acting, especially that of Brad Pitt and Eric Bana was fabulous. I cried in so many parts of the movie, I can't count them all but it was Eric Bana's performance that stole the show. Hector was WONDERFUL! Brad Pitt was such a great actor in this movie that I was truly blown away. I really looked at him as Achilles, not BRAD PITT, which was such a feat in my eyes.

Anyway, it was good. A good date movie so go see it.

Sarah ^_^

[GroovyBoy]

Just for the inspired/based side discussion: Would it have made any difference if they had said it was "based" on the Illiad? You know how many uberliberal movies of real-life events have been "based" on true stories?

[doctorfate77]

the movie SUCKED. it took greek mythology to browntown.

however, Brad Pitt is Hella HOT.

[Doomtoy]

THINGS "TROY" TAUGHT ME ABOUT HISTORY AND GREEK MYTHOLOGY:

1. Ancient Greeks were remarkably stupid, especially their kings. Some of them were blonde, for some reason.
2. Might makes right, but must still bow to political correctness.
3. Achilles was the only Greek who had any real grasp of strategy, tactics, or common sense. And even he would forget all about this stuff if you made him really, really mad.
4. Battle standards existed in ancient Greece, but served no purpose whatsoever.
5. Greek hoplites would happily charge ranked enemy spearmen and impale themselves.
6. The shield was used not only to block an enemy's thrust, but as a missile weapon, to be thrown at your opponent.
7. Trojans not only knew how to make Greek Fire, but they had a version that exploded in huge fireballs.
8. Patroclus was Achilles' cousin, not his gay lover.
9. It's okay for kings to spout off about how dumb and worthless their soldiers are when standing in front of the soldiers. They'll go ahead and fight and die for your greater glory, anyway.
10. Women are the dumbest creatures on Ghod's green earth.
11. Treating your enemy honorably and sticking to rules of engagement will not only get you killed, but will pretty much hand victory to your opponent on a silver platter.
12. Going completely insane during a battle will generally yield victory.
13. Being treacherous, conniving, and evil will also generally yield victory, but you won't deserve it.
14. Being cowardly, whimpering, and generally a whining idiot, though, will pretty much win you everything you ever hoped for. If nothing else, you'll get the girl.
15. After a woman has had the doggie doodle beat out of her, let her clean herself up and spout some existential philosophy at her. Then, if she tries to kill you, let her. Not only will she not kill you, she will then sleep with you.
16. Only elder sons of kings were taught to fight. Younger sons apparently weren't taught much of anything.

It's worth seeing... if you aren't too attached to the original version.

[Tom1210]

What do you mean archers during that time are considered cowards?
Was Oddyseus considerd a coward too? He had A bow that only he could string up.

Archers were never considered cowards, they are part of the army. Once the opponents gets too close to the Archers then the archers are considered dead. How can you say they are cowards when they know for a fact that if the enemy gets too close to them they are dead?

[Maniac_nmt]

yes, archery in combat was considered cowardly. The bow you refer to was NEVER used in the war.

Archers, at the time of the Trojan war, and even 500 years later when it was written, were considered un-manly.

It is okay for Odyseus to use a bow to kill his wife's suitors as they are unmanly to begin with, and craven dogs. In essance, he is not killing men, but animals in men's clothing.

It pays to take history of war classes in college.

[GroovyBoy]

Originally posted by Maniac_nmt


It pays to take history of war classes in college.

It does? How much? (And here I thought YOU had to pay to take college classes...)