I got you and makes sense. I think "Masters of Evil" turned me off but with the wording being what the MoE does (or like colossals do) that would makes sense.

Or do you think giving "ships" the colossal continue to attack and take damage as a result might be better for all ships or just special to Battle Fury?

Personally? Just BF

It is the scaling

Some characters could even be scaled. Silver Age Superman is the 150 point version of SM001, Black Adam is the 100 point version

Didn't even think of Colossals pushing but it hurts ability, that works too!

I really like these changes to the powers. Close combat really doesn't seem right for a game like this, even though I guess it represents boarding actions.

I shall point these out to my fellow ST clix player and see if he'll give them a try.

When it comes to the rules, there are a few things in HC rules that don't make much sense for Star Trek play. Taking damage from pushing for only movement is a rule I don't use. Still pick up the 2nd token, but no damage...just doesn't make sense. Ships can move through space without taking damage.

I'm not a big fan of the close combat thing either, and think that ships should be able to target whatever they want.

Moving and shooting is almost a must.

I don't like most of the "attack" powers like the explosion thing or the incapacitate. So I ignore them.

I would also like to see the option for self-destruct and ramming speed.

And higher damage values, especially for the bigger or more powerful ships.

Overall, I would like to see a Star Trek-specific ruleset developed for Tactics, and forget about making the game compatible with the regular HC stuff. Most people don't mix the two anyway.

Chris

I like the combat rules in Fleet Captains...with power allocation, etc. I wish they would have ported those rules to standard clix.

I always assumed the close range attacks represented what were technically ranged attacks, just short-range ones- a ship definitely can't literally use blades, claws or fangs (I mean, I guess they could, but that would be one WEIRD SHIP). I just thought stuff like that would represent a short-range rapid-fire laser bank or something.

But pushing a machine past its limits can cause damage. If you're trying your best to make, say, a car go faster than it should be able to go, your engine COULD leap out from under the hood in a big bloody mess.

...or a series of EPS conduits could blow holy crap out of the internally parts of your ship.

Some fantastic ideas here to separate the fleet from the herd.

Good considerations on the powers and their tweaks to be in keeping with ship-to-ship battle.

I like the idea of pushing for movement ignoring pushing damage in any Hericlix game. It could make the game more dynamic.

Remember balance, there's nothing wrong with a penalty for being to do something 'more'.

I love pushing and/or unavoidable damage because of the risk attached and the element of surprise against an opponent.

My thing with pushing damage is that if I'm just moving, not shooting or using move and shoot, then my ship shouldn't start blowing up around me. If I'm driving my car at normal speeds within normal parameters and it is well-maintained, it should not have the engine blow up or anything silly. The second token forces a break and you would take normal pushing damage if you pick up a 2nd token for anything other than just moving. Never have liked the "pushing" mechanic and for this situation it really doesn't make sense.

Seeing as how I only ever play my ships myself and not against others, it doesn't matter what I do to the rules to make it make more "Trekish" to me. :-)

Chris

If you think of it in that literal sense, I see your point.

Pushing, to me, is an important part of balance in the game of HeroClix. Its what gives OMA teams and swarm teams more equal footing.

That balance has been largely ignored by design and there are lots of figures now that push the envelope of balance (or break it) due to getting around the pushing mechanism.

This.

I fully understand pushing and game balance, but it also needs to make sense. I think the biggest problem with the Star Trek ships is trying to fit it into the larger Heroclix game. That was a mistake IMO. They should have given the ships their own rules and PAC and done justice to the source.

In Mechwarrior, a movement formation could double move without taking damage on the push, so maybe move the ships together in a formation or squadron, if that is what it takes. It just doesn't make sense for a starship to take damage just from moving. I can understand a person model because they could get tired to whatnot but it doesn't make sense except to make it fit into the HC world, which is where it doesn't belong.

There are other problems I have with using the same HC rules and PAC being used for starships and superheroes, but that's the one that really annoys me.

Chris

I don't know how much Star Trek you watch, but, in combat (and that is what is supposed to be represented during the game even if they do start at opposite ends, etc) those ships CONSTANTLY take damage from moving. If it's not the Inertial Dampners going offline, then it's the Structural Integrity Fields being damaged, or power conduits rupturing. I can count on one hand how many times the Warp Core Ejection system stays online during a combat.

It is STRESSFUL for the the ships to be maneuvering and dodging and firing during combat - which is what the game is designed to represent.