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Old 02/18/2011, 01:44
    #1
Chris31616
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Wally West
Better version of his Kid Flash self:

Wally West
Team: JLA
Range: 0
Points: 130
Keywords: Central City, Justice League Europe, JLA, Teen Titans
15
11
19
3
14
10
18
3
13
10
17
2
12
9
17
2
12
9
16
2
12
9
18
2
11
8
17
2
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
Speed - Up Walls, Though Walls: Wally West can use Hypersonic Speed. When Wally West moves, he ignores the effects of characters, hindering terrain, elevated terrain, and blocking terrain on movement. He can't end his movement on blocking terrain.
Attack - Human Tornado: Once per turn, if Wally West has 1 or less action tokens he can use Force Blast as a free action.
Defense - Fastest Man Alive!: Wally West can use Energy Shield/Deflection and Shape Change.
Damage - Stealing Speed: Wally West can use Outwit but can only target Speed powers. When Wally uses Outwit modify his speed by +2, If he Outwits a standard or named speed power he can not already use, he can use that power until the beginning of your next turn.
Last edited by Chris31616; 03/11/2011 at 00:52. Reason: fix dial
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Old 02/18/2011, 08:50
    #2
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Undercosted. Free Force Blast is incredibly powerful. As is the Mega-HSS, obviously. I'd say 155 points.
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Old 02/18/2011, 13:33
    #3
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Uped the cost to 130 and droped the stats (attack and damage) a little to make them different from Barry's. Also dropped the last click

Doesn't have the ability to penetrate Invulnerability on almost every click like Barry or the ability to be next to any opposing figure on the back end of his dial, but he's faster (like Wally's suppose to be) Thought about giving him the Hypersonic flurry power of Zoom, but decided to go with the Kid Flash power since that Kid Flash was the younger Wally West, still annoyings me that can't get through those impervious clix on Zoom (they are suppose to be able to take each other) but I think the other powers make up for it.
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Old 02/19/2011, 00:07
    #4
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Get rid of the free Force Blast. It's a broken power. (Normally powerful against a standard team, but so powerful against certain teams (ie. no range teams) that it essentially grants auto-win. It's broken.)

I'd also shuffle round stats to make him cheaper. Also, give him Shape Change instead of Super Senses, same effect (comic accurate, because he's never standing still long enough to get a clear attack on him) but cheaper and makes him less broken.
Last edited by Amora's_best_friend; 02/19/2011 at 00:18.
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Old 02/19/2011, 00:09
    #5
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Wally West
Team: JLA
Range: 0
Points: 123
Keywords: Central City, Justice League Europe, JLA, Teen Titans
13
10
19
3
14
11
17
3
14
10
17
2
13
9
16
2
13
9
16
2
12
9
18
2
11
8
17
2
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
Speed - Up Walls, Though Walls: Wally West can use Hypersonic Speed. When Wally West moves, he ignores the effects of characters, hindering terrain, elevated terrain, and blocking terrain on movement. He can't end his movement on blocking terrain.
Defense - Fastest Man Alive!: Wally West can use Energy Shield/Deflection and Shape Change.
Damage - Stealing Speed: Wally West can use Outwit but can only target Speed powers. When Wally uses Outwit modify his speed by +2, If he Outwits a standard or named speed power he can not already use, he can use that power until the beginning of your next turn.
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Old 02/19/2011, 00:46
    #6
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Quote : Originally Posted by Amora's_best_friend View Post
Get rid of the free Force Blast. It's a broken power. (Normally powerful against a standard team, but so powerful against certain teams (ie. no range teams) that it essentially grants auto-win. It's broken.)

I'd also shuffle round stats to make him cheaper. Also, give him Shape Change instead of Super Senses, same effect (comic accurate, because he's never standing still long enough to get a clear attack on him) but cheaper and makes him less broken.
That's just your bias. It's your favorite power and therefore overhype it than it's worth.
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Old 02/19/2011, 01:08
    #7
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Quote : Originally Posted by Wolf_Otaku View Post
That's just your bias. It's your favorite power and therefore overhype it than it's worth.
The game is grounded in the fact every figure can move, every figure can make a close combat attack etc etc. When you play with those rules, and say "No, you can't make a close combat attack", you break the game.

How can you justify the fact a 72 point Daken LE automatically loses should he come to fight a 45 point Kid Flash head-to-head? Short of a critical miss, or ingenious placing on Daken's behalf, there's no way Kid Flash will lose on that third click.

It's not that powerful against a standard team, but it's crippling if the opponent happens to do the taboo thing of choosing a figure with no range or satisfactory way of dealing with (permanent) non-adjacency. Why give this dial a potentially broken power if there's no need to?
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Old 02/19/2011, 01:11
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Change it to "When Wally West has 0 action tokens he can use Force Blast as a free action".

Or "When Wally West has 2 action tokens he can use Force Blast as a free action".

Either would remedy the problem.
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Old 02/19/2011, 01:23
    #9
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Kid Flash does it for 45 points. You also forget most of those big figs with no range have at least a few clicks of charge which stats they don't get knocked back. Also you can't force blast on your opponets turn so if they do charge you they do get an attack before you can even force blast (assuming you outwitted the charge) Also there is nothing saying you can't blow past those clicks straight into death. He doesn't start off with it and not like a no range person is gonna hit for 1 damage all the way down the dial (not to mention he can only force blast 1 character so if he gets jumped by 2 or 3 no range guys he still has to deal with the other 2. Besides lets be frank Daken isn't fast enough to keep up with Kid Flash let alone The Flash in comic books, he's just get pummelled at super speed. while clawing at empty air, even with his enhanced reflexes.

Sides Hypersonic speed already makes it pretty impossible (though not completely) for no range to deal with.

Also I know so me dial generators may price shape change lower then super senses, but if they do the same thing I don't see why it should be cheaper or even changed, though I guess I could change it.
Last edited by Chris31616; 02/19/2011 at 01:34. Reason: add text
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Old 02/19/2011, 01:29
    #10
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How about this:

Wally West
Team: JLA
Range: 0
Points: 130
Keywords: Central City, Justice League Europe, JLA, Teen Titans
15
11
18
3
14
10
17
3
13
10
17
2
12
9
16
2
12
9
19
2
12
9
18
2
11
8
17
2
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
Speed - Up Walls, Though Walls: Wally West can use Hypersonic Speed. When Wally West moves, he ignores the effects of characters, hindering terrain, elevated terrain, and blocking terrain on movement. He can't end his movement on blocking terrain.
Attack - Human Tornado: Once per turn, if Wally West has 1 or less action tokens he can use Force Blast as a free action.
Defense - Fastest Man Alive!: Wally West can use Energy Shield/Deflection and Shape Change.
Damage - Stealing Speed: Wally West can use Outwit. When Wally uses Outwit If he Outwits a speed power modify his speed by +2.
Last edited by Chris31616; 03/11/2011 at 00:55. Reason: fix text
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Old 02/19/2011, 01:39
    #11
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Quote : Originally Posted by Amora's_best_friend View Post
The game is grounded in the fact every figure can move, every figure can make a close combat attack etc etc. When you play with those rules, and say "No, you can't make a close combat attack", you break the game.

How can you justify the fact a 72 point Daken LE automatically loses should he come to fight a 45 point Kid Flash head-to-head? Short of a critical miss, or ingenious placing on Daken's behalf, there's no way Kid Flash will lose on that third click.

It's not that powerful against a standard team, but it's crippling if the opponent happens to do the taboo thing of choosing a figure with no range or satisfactory way of dealing with (permanent) non-adjacency. Why give this dial a potentially broken power if there's no need to?
Do you even play range where you're from?
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Old 02/19/2011, 02:08
    #12
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Quote : Originally Posted by Chris31616 View Post
Kid Flash does it for 45 points. You also forget most of those big figs with no range have at least a few clicks of charge which stats they don't get knocked back. Also you can't force blast on your opponets turn so if they do charge you they do get an attack before you can even force blast (assuming you outwitted the charge) Also there is nothing saying you can't blow past those clicks straight into death. He doesn't start off with it and not like a no range person is gonna hit for 1 damage all the way down the dial (not to mention he can only force blast 1 character so if he gets jumped by 2 or 3 no range guys he still has to deal with the other 2. Besides lets be frank Daken isn't fast enough to keep up with Kid Flash let alone The Flash in comic books, he's just get pummelled at super speed. while clawing at empty air, even with his enhanced reflexes.

Sides Hypersonic speed already makes it pretty impossible (though not completely) for no range to deal with.

Also I know so me dial generators may price shape change lower then super senses, but if they do the same thing I don't see why it should be cheaper or even changed, though I guess I could change it.
In regards to your last point, I think it is fair to say that Super Senses is marginally better than Shape Change, and probably warrants a higher cost in any accurate points formula (if such a creature doth exist). At least if your opponent rolls Shape Change you can still do something else with your character, be it attacking someone different, moving to improve your position, etc...the only time SS and SC are doing "the same thing" is if you're one-on-one against the character and there's no benefit to be had in moving your character...

In regards to your other points, you put up a good defense for free Force Blast as a non-broken power. After all, if anyone is coming into a game fielding a team that...
1) Possesses no range
2) Possesses no move-and-attack
3) Possesses no charge or other powers that ignore knockback
4) Possesses no giants, dual based figs or other figs that ignore knockback
5) Possesses no Outwit
...then said player should probably be willing to find themselves in a no-win situation at some point. Especially since there are already figs in the game who have free Force Blast.

That said, I spiritually agree with ABF that free Force Blast is exceptionally annoying, and feels underhanded. I like the idea of limiting by the number of action tokens Wally has, or perhaps adding a restriction that while he can use it as a free action, he cannot take any other non-free actions that turn? Just a thought on how to look at it a different way....

I really like this Wally. He's every bit the definitive version we've needed for a long time, and would compliment the new SR Barry nicely, though I suspect he'd be quite a bit tougher to take down and might thus incur a slightly higher cost...hard to say. Whatever the case, he'd be a terror to look across the battlefield at, and does a good job capturing how powerful the Flash is without going massively overboard.

I think that you could get away with wording "Up Walls, Though Walls" as "...he ignores the effects of characters and terrain on movement". Unless I'm missing something, that's what your power currently means anyway, and it's both a more efficient use of words and seems to be in keeping with the preferred wording in the most recent set. Not being able to end in blocking is already addresses in the official rules, so there's likely no need to specify it here.

Good stuff!
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Old 02/19/2011, 03:14
    #13
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I took the wording from the kid Flash dial. I think it was made like that so he doesn't ignore walls... (really don't know but I just copied it as is and changed the name.)

Thank you for the compliment Wally is my favorite Flash so I felt he needed to be dealt justice. I think one of the things people don't think about free Force Blast is that Wally would have to be next to someone to use it before he decides to use HSS or After he has already used HSS he can't do it during. and with the way his special defense power especially works (not to mention how HSS is always played) you're gonna want to stay away from people as much as possible. However i did make it so he can't use it when he has 2 tokens on him (so if he pushed himself he's to tired to tornado)

As far as the dial do you like it better with the 19 defense up front with Super Senses, or the 18 with the special power?
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