What up guys,
Havent been on the threads in a minute but been playing alot of clix and I just gotta ask the community after the release of superman and the hulk does everyone really feel like the quality of the game is still intact.As a die hard hulk fan I was very dissapointed in the set sure there was some cool stuff in it but not cool enough if you ask me,I mean cosmic hulks sculpt was a complete let down.And they are planning on doing more reprints in the future and not the cool kind that keep a fig in format but in exact sculpt with diffrent stats.I buy clix by the case so I usually spend about $200 when a new set comes out kinda like buying a x box every couple of months,Ill tell you what I dont do buy a new x box becuase it is a diffrent color sure its diffrent but essentially its the same stuff.Aside from their lazyness to make new skulpts lets talk about the value,it was certain that if you bought a case of heroclix on opening day you could make alot of your money back on stuff you didnt want and get your play stuff at a fraction of the cost figs had a value of around 60 to 100 dollers for the hot stuff and dont even get me started on gsx op kit stuff on presale wow that was sick.But now there is not a fig in either hulk or supes that is worth 100 bucks.I understand that figs need to be obtainable to all heroclix players but if your gonna lower quality and demand you need to lower the price as well.And finally playabillity I dont know if you guys are a fan of 9 strength but Im not sure plenty of kick ### figures have good stats but what about the avarage 150 to 180 guy that your in love with like daredevil or the punisher ect guys becuase of their points and becuase you love them you wanna build around in 300 points guess what anyone who is building strictly from cap back is gonna own your face and lease it out to someone else.I dont feel like anything with very few exceptions is good from supes up minus the IG that stuff,that stuff is awsome and GG looks good except for the damn resculpts but thanos,silver sufer and death look sick.All Im saying is this game has been freakin awsome since neca saved it but we should not just follow blindley as the consumer we have alot of power and if the community dosent like what thier doing over all we should make our voices heard and they will change what thier doing to make us happy we pay thier bills.

Formatting. Seriously.

On topic, don't see yourself as buying a new X-box every few months. You're buying a few games for it every few months. Some of those games are good and some are bad. Sometimes a game is a sequal and really similar to a game you've already played, but it might be slightly different or better in some way and is still enjoyable.

There are plenty of playable pieces in IH and plenty of awesome looking pieces in GG that I'm looking forward to getting. I think you may just be spending too much money on Clix and expecting a return on that investment. The secondary market is fickle and so are pulls from random boosters. You can't expect to recoup your costs every time. Maybe it's time to buy a little less for the next few sets and see how it goes.

Yes, paragraphs are good.

But seriously, compare the Superman and Hulk set to say Avengers and Justice League.

You tell ME if the quality is any better!!!

Short Answer: It's so much better NOW, that it seems like a different game.

And the new bases are SO much better than the Avengers-era bases.

And the dials have been fine. There are some totally broken dials, some really good dials, and some average dials, but it seems like every figure brings something to the table. Even generic Hulkbusters.

Back around BatB until about GSX Wizkids was getting a lot of flak for the quality of their sculpts, and rightfully so (many of them were terrible). The result seems to be that they're making higher quality sculpts for the lower rarities, but the trade-off is that they are re-using the piss out of those better sculpts. Cases in point: Abomination x3/A-Bomb, Silver Surfer x3/Keeper, Dr. Doom x4, Thanos x3, etc.

Course, there's no explaining cheeseburger Hulk.

Yeah, the Superman set is environment defining, I measure everything to it, so I don't think the quality is missing there. Also, the only things that ever break $100 are the tough to get chases, otherwise don't expect SR's to ever go above $60ish and only ever hit that high because of a ton of circumstances.

Avengers and JL were great sets when they came out. And of high quality as well. You cant really compare brand new stuff to stuff that came out YEARS, not months ago.

IMO, the bases now suck. THey are way to big and they look goofy. Plus, if you get one that wont turn its not near as easy as it used to be to fix them. I never had a problem with the HoT, BatB, DC75 bases myself.

Overall, the fact that they are recycling sculpts is a really bad sign in my opinion. First of all they suck, and EVERYONE would prefer different sculpts to reprints/repaints. There is that group of people that say, "oh no, Wizkids are HELPING us by giving us reused sculpts so they dont ahve to raise the price of the boosters! THanks so much for saving me money Wizkids"! Fact is, they have been putting 60 figs in a set for years with no or minimal sculpt reuse and the prices ahve never changed. ALL their doing is saving THEMSELVES money and getting the exact same amount from us. 60 fogs with different sculpts SHOULD NOT be anymore than $12 booster, PERIOD. If they raise them, people who buy them are ignorant, rich, or truly do blindly follow the game.

But Stallion, the thing is, we can compare the sets.

You know why? Because sets made BEFORE Avengers, ie Fantastic Forces and Origin were near perfect quality!

And I've said before, I like the reuse of sculpts. It makes sense, and it's what Wizkids did from day one, what with the REV and LE model.
And don't get me wrong. I liked the Hammer of Thor through Captain America bases, even better than the old H-style bases.

But the new ones have REALLY grown on me. And since they added the 2 little prongs to the underside of the base so you can use the old turning rings? Perfection!

When I look at the older bases they look kind of cheap to me compared to the new ones. I look at Street Fighter or Cap or Halo or DC75 pieces on the old bases, and now I just say "meh."

I'm not going to get rid of my old-base figures, but I'm excited going forward with the new bases in a way I was not when the changes were announced.

The only issue I have with quality is in regards to the play-testing before each set. The complexity of having cool new and exciting powers is such that it creates unforseen instances. Just take a look at the rules forums. Every set seems to have to re-define a prior existing rule, because it was not written with the idea that variable "X" may happen 15 months from now..... and THEN what ? And then I hate the discussion of whether or not something was intended one way, but the rules dictate something else entirely. (Read: Nothing stops the Juggernaut..... except opposing characters, obviously.)

Oh yeah, and I hate the re-use of sculpts. For things like Punishers weapon swap.....sure. I get that. But do I need a Chase re-sculpt of a Super-rare ?? Wait, maybe I get the new LE Spider-man ! Oh, I got him last set in a different costume. Thats scurvy IMO.

Wow. I started to read and realized I was going blind by the lack of punctuation. The first part that I did read was nothing different than what is debated on the site about the Hulk set. I would prefer to lay that cow out to pasture than having to comment on it.



....,...,,,,!!!!....,.,.,,,,.,.

This is it.

As far as I am going to attempt to go until you add some paragraphs and spacing to that wall of text.

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You didn't think that the Hulk sculpt was good? Okay, and? A lot of people like or dislike a lot of sculpts.

You didn't think that the character selection was perfect? So what? I doubt that you can find anyone that loves every figure in any set.

None of that speaks to a decline in quality.

Sculpt quality is as good as it's ever been in my opinion, with the only issue that I see as ongoing being scaling.
Super-Skrull is a midget, for example.

It doesn't mean that Galactic Guardians is substandard, though.
Nor does sculpt recycling.
Super-Skrull is still going to be a figure that I play, because I like the character, and while the sculpt is small, it is not bad.
That they use the same sculpt for the figure in the CTD and a variation of the sculpt for Xavin is irrelevant.

At least in my opinion... If yours differs, you can always elect to buy singles and only those figures that meet your standards, however many or few that might be.

I pretty much disagree with everything I can make out in the OP. Do I love rampant sculpt reuse? No, I do not, but my biggest problem with it is that they haven't been selective enough in its use. The A-Bomb mods and getting multiple Abominations? Aces! Seeing that puny common Hulk everywhere and a bunch of soldiers pointing and no one shooting? Those were bad choices for re-use, IMO. More selective sculpt reuse and I'm on board.

As for the quality of the sculpts themselves, and the dials - I"m loving it. I wish that WK used a consistent figure scale, but there's nothing new about that old issue. I think the quality we're currently getting is great.

Does the lack of $100 figures indicate a dip in quality? I don't think there is a direct correlation between quality and price as much as there are a number of factors (including set availability) that impact price on the secondary market. GSX was under-produced. Superman, Hulk, Cap were sets where supply met demand. Of COURSE the SRs in those sets are going to be less valuable, and that is before you factor in character popularity.

I'm making my opinion heard with my wallet. I've got a case of GG already paid for from my FLGS. I'll be buying Chaos War and all the DC sets too (probably not a case of each...I really think a brick is the max bulk purchase now if you want to stretch your money the furthest, but I am REALLY impressed with what we've seen from GG so far).

The biggest issue I have with the game right now is the Infinity Gauntlet. That thing is way too good for the cost, has no real counters and can be placed on anyone, and it is seriously impacting the meta. Fortunately we can ban it in home games, which covers about half my Heroclix gaming.

You stole my idea!

Awesome post!

In Summary:

from what I read in Blogs, there were a number of major things that most people did not like and was hurting sales when Wizkids was under Topps. This included Blind Booster Sales combined with Cost and Power Creep; and the REV System; and Chase rarity, combined with Convention give aways.

Wizkids under Topps, did implement some things, such as getting rid of the REVs; and introducing Powers Cards and Better Sculpts, with the later, actually advertised in a Crisis Promo Poster. Theonly thing that was still killing them was Power Creep, since most, just did not want to invest too much, thinking, their hundreds of dollars would go down the toilet if they Power Creeped again and again, to the point that all their figures would no longer be competitive, which is like throwing money out the window.

Then the sale occurred. NECA issued HOT that was in the making, and then BB. However, BB was the start of downsizing sculpt size overall. NECA/Wizkids, seemingly has made the best decision they have ever made, and seemingly have stopped Power Creep, and from what I can tell, are increasing the average of higher Combat Values for certain characters, and/or doing other unique dial designs, and adding special powers and introducing new game mechanics, like web traps; Alter Ego; Unique Special Objects (Infinity Gaunlet Gems; Kryptonite Crystaks; etc., into the game, to keep it challenging and dynamic. The best thing they have ever done.

In my opinion, they were almost at perfection, being we had Powers Cards; a halt to Power Creep; no more REVs, when they went and blew it, and started issuing multiple versions of same characters, and duplicate sculpts for them and other characters, in Fast Forces Packs and Gravity Feeds and Starter Sets, thus bringing back the dreaded REV System in essense, which combined with downsizing the sculpts, counters all the other game saving changes they made, which I mentioned above. Not realzing the Sculpts is what makes the game, and most people want nice size detailed sculpts, and do not want duplicate sculpts or too many version of the same figure and sculpt in a Set, and most cannot afford to buy all this flood of product, to the point, they cannot afford to buy many figures from future Sets.

Think about it, their majority of buyers, barely had the money to afford to buy all or mostly all of the figures in the 3 Sets per year they were getting from AV to HOT, and would mostly spend that money and buy them, since they were all unique sculpts and not too much of it at one time or in total per year. That is the magic Niche they had, that from what I was told made them about $1 Million per year.

Now if you downsize the sculpts, they become less desirable to look at and play, and are not as collectible, than they could be. The multiple versions of the same character and duplicate sculpts for same and different characters, are not affordable to their Niche crowd, who would much prefer to see figures previously made, before Powers Cards, made with Powers Cards, as well as, many never made Marvel and DC Clix as well.

They are tying to capitilize on Movie Clix and New 52, of which average age viewer and reader, may be from a generation that is mostly beyond board games, but even if not, the game will die, if they continue to produce smaller figures and multiple versions of same characters in each Set, with duplicate sculpts of those figures and other characters, in the same and future sets, like they did with SU; IH; GG; and AVM, since it is flooding us with too much cheaper product. and you just cannot do that with a game which sculpt uniqueness, size, and quality make the game.

Being the Hulk fan that you are... Did you see the Hulk LE prize in GG, the sculpt is cool but so damn SMALL i hate the piece.