Sure it does:

Whenever a combat value needs to be calculated for any game effect, the controller of the character whose value needs to be calculated starts with the printed value, applies all replacement values in any order, then applies the sum of all modifiers to arrive at a final result. Remember that a locked replacement value will override any other replacement values and modifiers.

Whenever a combat value needs to be calculated for any game effect, the controller of the character whose value needs to be calculated starts with the printed value, applies all replacement values in any order [to that value], then applies the sum of all modifiers to arrive at a final result.


The phrase you bolded is referring to multiple replacement values effecting a specific value.

Just play Superman and the Flash with HT U Flash on your team and start them on the Kinetic Accelerator with the other half of their base in hindering terrain. That is 3 replacement values hitting their speed value when they use HSS. With perplex (say a +3 from Max Mercury) they can move 29 squares.

Here, how about the fact that the text still includes the word "unmodified?"

This is an exercise in rhetoric, nothing more.

I realize that is says "a", but in this case it is happening to multiple characters simultaneously, so you have to look at a whole lotta "a's" at the same time. Still applies.

And for the record, I think ChiRocker is correct. "Modify all replacements before all modifiers" is pretty clear, IMO. Even if the modifier is "created" several actions before a replacement is applied, that modifier goes on hold until the replacement is apllied, then the modifier is re-applied.

My entire point has been that the word unmodified is needed in the text of the team ability. I have said this several times. Not once did I say, explicitly or implicitly, that you CAN perplex up a figures attack and then subsequently share the modified value via Batman Enemy.

Because this particular reason is so complicated, they normally apply the clause at the end. It technically isn't needed, but there is a bit of confusion. But, it because of Replace then Modify that the clause is there in the first place (because there has always been replace then modify, it just used to only apply to things replacements and modifications that happened simultaneously, though there was always a lot of confusion with some aspects, so they streamlined it to fix every problem they had).

Two-Face wants to use his Batman Enemy TA to use Joker's attack value. How do we know what Joker's attack value is? We have to calculate it. Everything in the golden rule is referencing the calculation of a single combat value. You cannot extrapolate it out to all combat values involved in an action simultaneously. Each one is calculated singlely and in order of necessity.

You cannot modify before replacing. Ever.*



*"Ever" except when a SP/Trait explicitely states otherwise, natch

This is simply not true.

In this case (and in the case of Defenders/JSA/Defend) since multiple characters values are needed to calculate a single value, you must do replace then modify for each character simultaneously. This is precisely why they added the clause, to help us get to that conclusion more easily.

To answer your question, this is the order:

Joker gets a +1 to attack, it hangs out in limbo until he attacks.
Two-Face wants to borrow Joker's attack, we look at his attack (X+1). Since the +1 is in limbo waiting for his attack, we must use the printed (or borrowed from Riddler if you so choose) attack value, because all replacement comes before all modifications.

Now let's say that HT Jay Garrick is Merc'ed to BE AND Chase Thanos has swapped his speed and attack. Now Jay can share his newly replaced attack (20) with Joker who has a +1 (which in my opinion is a bit unnecessary at that point). Oh the joy of multiple replaces and modifications.

Do you have some rules basis here or are you just going to keep telling me I am wrong?

This is simply true.

Sorry, just following my own theme there...

Yeah, a Golden Rule basis. Replace then Modify.

ChiRocker broke it down in detail.

You are adding rules to the game. All replacement comes before all modification to a single value. There is NO replacement value being applied to Joker's attack, just the perplex (which does nothing because Batman Enemy states to use the unmodified value).

The perplex is not waiting for an attack. It is waiting for the combat value to be used. It is being used when another character uses it via Batman Enemy.

Oh, and I answered my own question.