Ok Please read before you try to rip. I know how Multi-Attack works. Currently there is only one character with Multi-Attack and Hypersonic Speed.


Multiattack
Once per turn, give this character a power action. It can be given
any two actions as free actions. Resolve the first free action before
giving it the second. Modify this character's damage value by -1 to
a minimum of 1. This ability can't be countered.

And the clarification to Multiattack

Multiattack
 The Capture ability may not be used via the free action granted
by Multiattack.
 The free actions used in this ability may activate the same effect.

Ok so I can use Multiattack to activate any power twice. Cool. There is one main power that my question is built around.

Hypersonic Speed
Give this character a power action and move it up to its speed
value. It automatically breaks away and can move through squares
adjacent to opposing characters. During its move, this character
may as a free action make one close combat or ranged combat
attack with its range value halved for the attack. This character
must be in a square where it could legally end its move in order to
make the attack.

I bolded the portion that is the crux of my question. Due to this rule.

FREE ACTIONS
Some game effects do not require the character to be assigned an action token when that action resolves, or they allow a character to do something after the character uses another kind of action,
such as a power action or move action. Using a free action does not consume one of your available actions for the turn, and you may give your characters as many free actions as game effects allow. A character may not activate the same game effect twice in one turn with free actions, unless the game effect indicates otherwise.

So what I am saying is if you use Multiattack to activate Hypersonic Speed and perform a Ranged Combat Attack and then activate Hypersonic Speed again you cannot perform a second Ranged Combat Attack during the second usage of Hypersonic Speed. You would have to make a Melee attack or no attack at all.

I state this because Multiattack allows you to activate the same power twice and avoid the rule on using the same free action twice. However, there is nothing that would enable this to happen to the free action portion of Hypersonic Speed.

Please feel free to discuss, but I would prefer if one of the rules deputies could chime in at the very least to let me know that it has been taken to the cave.

you can use hss both times without a problem

Please read what I stated. I don't mean to be rude, but I specifically stated in the first sentence to read before you reply. You did not. HSS can be used twice that is a given. However you cannot make a free Ranged Combat Action twice from HSS in the same turn.

The rule prevents you from activating the same game effect twice with free actions, but the attack allowed by Hypersonic Speed is not a game effect. Hypersonic Speed is a game effect, but Multi-attack allows for that (as you pointed out.)

A different example: if you had some ability allowing for it you could use a free action to use a ranged combat action twice in one turn, because a ranged combat action is not a game effect. You could not use RCAs as free actions twice to activate Penetrating/PB, though, because that is a game effect.

This falls under the same question that came into play with Doppelganger being able to Flurry again in the same turn, and for the life of me I can't find the official answer to that one.

Since Flurry allows for a second close combat attack as a free action, if he were to flurry again as a free action he would not get the second attack of the second flurry, correct? The same goes for Akuma from the Street Fighter set.

I agree that due to the letter of the law as far as rules go, it seems as though you shouldn't be allowed 2 close combat attacks or 2 ranged combat attacks during a HSS Multi-Attack. Curious to see the answer to this.

The free action attack following HSS isn't a Ranged or Close Combat action, though. They are basic Close or Ranged Combat attacks which I thought were game effects in and of themselves.. could be wrong though.

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showth...harm+my+master

The above link shows a post by Normalview stating that 3 ranged combat attacks as free actions as part of Galactus' "You Shall Not Harm My Master" SP is using 3 of the same game effect.

Incorrect. A Ranged Combat Attack is a game effect. A Close Combat Attack is a game effect. Just like Probability Control is not an action but it is a Game Effect. Anything that has an impact on the game (aside from the actual rolling of the dice) is a game effect. Hindering Terrain Bonus = Game Effect. So on and so forth.

No, the post says that using ranged combat actions to make ordinary ranged combat attacks would be three of the same thing. He then says this in a later post:
"No, a ranged combat action activating P/PB is different from a ranged combat action activating PW is different from a ranged combat action activating a vanilla attack."

True, but then further into the post Harpua clarifies with an example of someone using Flurry and HSS in the same turn. You would not get the second close combat attack from Flurry if you had used a close combat attack during HSS because it is still the same game effect being activated. I know it's not the same as the proposed HSS + HSS question in this thread, but it's pretty darn similar.

I'm failing to see your point here. This falls in line with what I'm telling you and is supporting me.

A Ranged Combat Attack cannot be made as a free action more than once per turn unless something specifically allows you to do so. Multiattack would allow you to do so. Hypersonic Speed would not.

Ranged Combat Attack does not equal Ranged Combat Action. You must make a Ranged Combat Action to make a Ranged Combat Attack unless a power specifically allows you to do so otherwise. Example Hypersonic Speed, Pulse Wave, Ranged Combat Expert, ect...

So again you can use Multiattack to active Hypersonic Speed twice, however you cannot perform two Ranged Combat Attacks twice nor could you perform two Close Combat Attacks. If you wish to attack twice once you've used Multiattack and activate Hypersonic Speed twice one attack would be a Ranged Combat Attack and the other would have to be a Close Combat Attack.

Multiattack
Once per turn, give this character a power action. It can be given
any two actions as free actions. Resolve the first free action before
giving it the second. Modify this character's damage value by -1 to
a minimum of 1. This ability can't be countered.

I'm thinking the word any is the answer. I think its giving precedent with the word any to have 2 of the same.

Thats not the issue at hand. Multi-Attack is already clarified in the PAC as being able to generate the same free action twice. The question we are debating is whether or not nested actions inside the given actions can be duplicated.

You guys are really overcomplicating this.

Right there is your answer. Notice the plural. All free actions that are used while using the ability may be used to activate the same effect.

I'm not sure why this is a complicated issue?

Again please read.

You can give ANY action twice. For this Instance Hypersonic Speed is that Action. You can use Multiattack to activate Hypersonic Speed twice, no one is questioning that. The Ranged Combat Attack and/or Close Combat Attack are separate actions activated by Hypersonic Speed. They are NOT protected by Multiattack as those actions were not granted by Multiattack.

Chris the effect is Hypersonic Speed. Multiattack allows you to activate Hypersonic Speed twice. It is protected from that core rule because of Multiattack.

Hypersonic Speed then grants a separate free action. That Free Action is not protected by Multiattack, because it was not activated by Multiattack it was activated by Hypersonic Speed.