DEEP DISH THEMES

Part One

ORIGIN: Biochemist Henry Pym, discovering an unusual set of subatomic particles he labels "Pym particles", creates a size-altering formula and tests it on himself. Reduced to the size of an insect, Pym has a dangerous encounter with ants in a nearby anthill. Shortly afterward, he constructs a cybernetic helmet that allows him to communicate with and control ants. Pym designs a costume and reinvents himself as the superhero Ant-Man. Pym has changed super-heroic identities many times since...reinventing himself in an attempt to escape from the personal failures of his past...of which includes the creation of the evil robot: ULTRON.

PREFACE: Spousal abuse is not a source of comedy. I know I run the risk of the jokes appearing for even having brought it up, but PLEASE refrain from including jokes about it in your commentary.


PREFACE 2: This article was inspired by the generosity of my older brother Jeremiah (theavengerthor) when he went out of his way along with the help of my friend TPChid to get me a convention exclusive Giant Man/Ant-Man since I couldn't afford many HeroClix in this past year and since I couldn't join them at Gen-Con like I so desperately wanted to due to less than desirable financial circumstances...something that I will be able to rectify this year



ic172 LE Yellowjacket
Team: Master of Evil
Range: 4
Points: 41
Keywords: Brute, Scientist

8 8 20 1

7 7 19 1

6 6 18 1

6 5 17 1

4 4 12 1

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

PROS: Highly mobile, hard to hit, and has the possibility to cause a little mischief along the way. That is what you get with this Yellowjacket. The four range might just surpise a few opponents as well. The one damage isn't going to do a lot for the overall success of your team, but in a pinch (And barring damage reducers) it could be enough to make a difference. There are a lot of people that complain that there is no sculpt, but I personally thought it was hillarious and applauded the idea. The concept wore a little thin by the time that they got to Atom and Invisible Woman, but in it's initial conception, it was allright by me.

CONS: One of the worst things about this figure is the speculation that I believe goes on to this day as to whether or not this figure represents Rita DeMara or whether it's supposed to represent Hank Pym. The keywords all seem to point towards Pym, but the team ability points towards Rita. I'm sure there are people out there that are way more up on their Avengers mythology than I am that might be able to help out on this discussion, but for now all I can say is that I put him/her on this list just for the fact that I'm not sure. The biggest thing to not like about this dial, though, is the Masters of Evil team ability. The only reason it might be considered a good thing would be for the purposes of using a wildcard character to copy, but if you ever use the team ability on this specific figure, the chances are that you are doing a desperation move and you've mostly lost the game that you are playing.

THEME: There are no named keywords attached to Yellowjacket, but either of the generic keywords attached to the character work. Yellowjacket seems kind of out of place no matter which team you place him/her on, but it might just be the thing that makes the character work on either team you put him/her on. On either team, Yellowjacket will be a good tie-up/harrassment piece that will afford the generally slower and hard to get into combat pieces found in either group.

Other players' comments/reviews


ic173 LE Ant-Man
Team: Avengers
Range: 4
Points: 43
Keywords: Avengers, Scientist

6 8 20 0

6 7 19 0

5 6 18 0

4 5 17 0

4 5 16 0

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

PROS: Ant-Man was and still is one of the hardest to hit characters in the game. As if a full dial of stealth wasn't enough to keep him safe in the right terrain situations, the astronomically high defense is the cherry on top. It's not often that a character gets handed a 20 defense...let alone a non colossal figure. He is a great harrassment piece that can get to places without costing one of your actions for your turn due to his Avengers team ability, can incapacitate opposing figures to slow them down without them usually even attempting to deal with him due to the unhittable nature of his defenses, and he is a tie-up piece extrordinaire. At only 43 points, he is not going to be doing much in the way of taking out pieces, but to your opponent, he could possibly be the most hated weapon in your arsenal

CONS: I don't often complain about old tricks that have either gone out of style or have been "Corrected" through revisions to the rules, but I do so miss the days of being able to put the "Thunderbolts" ATA on him and making my Avengers into honorary Defenders and sharing that awesome 20 defense. It helps to keep his cost down, but at the same time it makes him a little less viable of a piece to include in a team without having any natural damage dealing possibilities. It sure does surprise an opponent when you use a little perplex magic to make him capable of dealing damage when he was previously just tie-up, but on his own, he's just going to hope that they miss so that he can incapacitate them. If he were to go up against a character that ignores pushing damage, his point on your team becomes cloudy.

THEME: I will always want to put him on an Avengers team. As a founding member, he will always have a place with that team. However, I think that he may have a great spot on a Scientist team. They can use the kind of time to set up their "Mad scientist doomsday devices" while he ties up the major threat(s). Heck, with as much perplex that can be found on scientist teams, they might just make Ant-Man their doomsday device.

Other players' comments/reviews


mm097 E Giant-Man
Team: Ultimates
Range: 0
Points: 109
Keywords: Scientist, S.H.I.E.L.D., Ultimates

12 10 16 4

11 10 16 4

10 9 15 3

10 9 15 3

9 8 14 3

9 8 13 3

8 7 12 2

8 7 11 2

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

PROS: I really am a fan of this figure. I'd like to tell you why, but it's not exactly something that I've ever been able to really put my finger on. I honestly can't tell you. If you look at him and what he brings to the table, it's not exactly awe inspiring or even all that great, but I'm sure that we all have figures like this. We don't know why they work or why we like them, but we do and we just play them anyway. You don't necessarily have to have a reason to play with your favorite characters and you don't have to defend your reasons. If it works for you, and you have fun with it...that's all you need. Sorry if that seems like a way to get out of doing an ACTUAL review for this character, but it needed to be said at some point.

CONS: Being the first character to ever have the giant combat symbol, there was a little bit of a learning curve on how to properly play him and how not to be a giant lightning rod for incoming attacks. The fact that his defense stat is so dreadfully low was not helping matters either. To add another nail in his coffin is the fact that as a giant, he ignores hindering terrain when he moves so more than most characters, his team ability is largely useless. The one thing that it is good for is for wildcards to copy and/or for hurling objects via superstrength at characters using stealth. Other than that, it is mostly costing this character precious points.

THEME: He works really well in a S.H.I.E.L.D. theme team as they usually don't have a lot of bruiser type of characters. When this figure was made they had even less. My favorite team to put him on is the Ultimates, though. He's the only Pym that has that keyword so that is obviously the one that gets the vote for my #1 pick for an Ultimates team (obviously.)

Other players' comments/reviews


ff019 R Yellowjacket
Team: Avengers
Range: 4
Points: 107
Keywords: Avengers, Scientist

10 9 16 3

10 8 16 3

9 8 15 3

9 8 15 3

8 7 15 3

8 7 14 2

7 7 14 2

7 6 13 2

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

PROS: I love that he's a giant with running shot. Granted, he only has a four range, but he won't have as many pesky line of fire problems that a standard sized figure will, so he's going to get more out of it with an effective nine range. He also has a very consistent damage in which to most effectively use that running shot as well. Half of his dial has a move and attack ability so he will be able to get in the fight effectively even if he's down to mid-dial. Don't forget about Giant reach, either. That combined with charge effectively gives him a two range while making close combat attacks. He can attack a zero range character, and unless the target has a move and attack ability after said attack, they will likely have to waste a move to get adjacent to him so THEY can attack. All in all time hasn't been extremely kind to him, but it's still a fun dial for only 107 points.

CONS: Unfortunately, the dial set-up is fun and was very interesting for it's time, but the attack and defense stats aren't going to be worth the 107 points. He tops out at a nine attack which is not likely to hit the broad side of a barn unless you roll dice like my Wife. The story just gets worse from there. Defensively he tops out at a 16 defense. Sure, he has eight straight clix of damage reducers, but when your opponent sees a 107 point lightning rod that can be taken down with one or two good hits and a sprinkling of outwit, they will almost definitely go for the easy points. The only thing that might save him from being targeted is if you have a threat that cries out for being dealt with as quickly as possible to distract from his easy pickings.

THEME: I wouldn't dream of using him in anything other than an Avengers theme team. He may not be my number one pick for a Pym to put on said team, but he just seems to work so perfectly when you look at him next to his teammates. It's more about the visual in this case than actual gameplay. Another good non-keyword team to put him on would be the rag-tag group of Avengers from the Avengers Forever (Destiny War) storyline.

Other players' comments/reviews


ff020 E Yellowjacket
Team: Avengers
Range: 6
Points: 129
Keywords: Brute, Scientist

10 10 16 3

10 9 16 3

10 9 15 3

9 8 15 3

9 8 15 3

8 8 15 3

8 7 14 3

7 7 14 2

7 6 13 2

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

PROS: You get moderate upgrades for a 22 point increase. You get one more click of life, a higher opening attack, and a bump up to a six range for starters. The decision of whether or not the gains outweigh the cost is totally up to the player and playstyle involved. To me, though, that is an awful lot of three damage that can be relied on for a good long while before it makes the drop to a two damage. Also, never to be underestimated is the incapacitate power. It's going to be a long shot to hit something with that attack value, but late in the game, one person with incapacitate can set the pace for a team and make it so your opponent has little or no options when their turn comes around but to clear. Anybody who tells you that incap is a worthless power is obviously either new or bad at this game.

CONS: There is another click of life and the damage reducers remain on every click, but the defense was not helped out at all. A 16 is was not that hard to hit back in the day, and it's even more possible in today's modern age game. For example, the lowest attack in the recent Amazing Spider-Man set is Madame Web with a click of seven attack and a click of six attack. Granted, she won't be damaging him with a zero damage, but she is an elderly blind lady and even she doesn't face impossible odds to take a swing at him.

THEME: This Yellowjacket represents Pym when he was at his most brash and aggressive. This would probably represent the Pym from Avengers Forever even better than the rookie, but both work. At this point he is not being much of a scientist, but is acting more like the brute that he is. So, If I were to use the available keywords, he would be best with brute. I'm not sure who I would put with him, so I will leave that choice up to you and whomever your favorite brute(s) are.

Other players' comments/reviews


ff021 V Yellowjacket
Team: Avengers
Range: 6
Points: 144
Keywords: Avengers, Scientist

10 10 16 4

10 10 16 3

10 9 15 3

9 9 15 3

9 8 14 3

8 8 15 3

8 7 14 3

8 7 14 3

7 7 13 2

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

PROS: With another 15 points added to his point total you get a bump to damage, movement, and initial attack. Aside from that it isn't a whole lot different from the previous two incarnations. Sure, he's added yet ANOTHER click of invulnerability and his dial is more useful on the whole, but it's not that big of a change. The biggest thing that the Veteran has going for him is the loss of one of his clicks that has a three damage and the gain of his opening click that has been upgraded to a four damage. That plus the running shot and six range could be a really nice thing to have.

CONS: This is one of the better examples of why the old REV system was just kind of redundant and created a poor selection of figures. For the collectors you had to now collect three different versions of a figure and there really wasn't much difference between them. It took up three full spots in a set when you only really needed the one. I mourned the transition from REV to CUR for a long time, but I have now fully accepted the CUR rarity scheme as the far superior system. Under the old way it could have taken a LONG time to get some of the lesser known characters than what we have seen made recently.

THEME: This is an Avengers figure all the way. Pym has gone back to being more confident and sure of himself without being arrogant and dangerous like he was before. This one specifically fits into the pre-disassembled era of the Avengers. He was running around as a giant version of Yellowjacket at the time I believe so it fits not only the dial, but also the keywords and the sculpt.

Other players' comments/reviews


sv049 R Ant-Man
Team: Avengers
Range: 4
Points: 48
Keywords: Avengers, Scientist

6 9 18 2

6 8 17 2

6 8 16 1

5 7 16 1

5 7 15 1

4 6 15 1

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

PROS: I love this dial. There isn't really a whole lot of powers or tricks that it has to pull off, but for what it does, it's just fun. He's in no way a primary attacker. He might not even be good enough for some people to consider him a secondary attacker, but to me he is an upgrade from the old rookie Black Panther concept of a fairly low point character who can get around and be a dedicated outwit piece. Unlike Panther, though, Ant-Man has a very high 18 opening defense and should he actually get hit, he goes into an alternate defensive mode with super senses and stealth. One of my favorite things to do with him is do his little three movement charge after outwitting a defensive power and nickel and diming an opponent two damage at a time.

CONS: One of the things that seems almost a waste is the charge. The only thing that I see it being effective for is if you want to go for a quick attack on a character that you also want to tie-up. Otherwise you would more than likely get more out of just making a ranged attack for four range instead of charging for a three movement. Sure, you might not have line of fire to do range, but I think they could have saved points if it would have just been leap/climb like it is on clix 3-4. It's very accurate that a tiny character shouldn't be able to cover much ground, but it's unfortunate that the highest movement on his dial is a six.

THEME: He works and performs best when he is on an Avengers team. I usually see him on teams constructed of 40-80 point avengers in that classic supporting role and he performs admirably. I'm going to go on record right now to admitting that just like the original convention exclusive pucks, it's not fully known whether these Ant-men in this REV set are all supposed to be Hank Pym or Scott Lang or both. That's the unfortunate part about pre-carded characters. Unless the sculpt, paintjob, or keywords spell out who the character is, it's all left up to speculation. I went ahead and included them all in, though, just in case.

Other players' comments/reviews


sv050 E Ant-Man
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 4
Points: 66
Keywords: Scientist, West Coast Avengers

7 9 18 2

7 9 17 1

6 8 18 1

6 8 18 1

5 7 17 1

5 7 16 1

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

PROS: For not many more points than the rookie, you get a character that has so much more to offer. One of the greatest things about this iteration is the fact that it's not just the same figure but with better stats. It provides you a slightly higher pointed option figure with almost a completely different buffet of powers to aid your team. He has nearly a full dial of incapacitate starting on click #2, front loaded perplex for the first half of his dial, and a really high defense WITH super senses now. A few years ago they made a change to defend as well. You could now use his defend to give a friendly character a shared 17 defense and then use the perplex that he has to increase one adjacent ally's defense by another +1 giving an ally an essential 18 defense. He's also not likely going to be a star player on your team, but he could be a major contributor.

CONS: I'm really a fan of the experienced Ant-Man and therefore don't have many negative things to say about him. The biggest things that I can say is that it's unfortunate that the sculpt isn't as small as they have managed to make him or small characters like him in Chaos War. It is what it is, but it takes away a bit of the fun of the character for me.

THEME: Just because it is such a rare keyword, I would build a team of West Coast Avengers and use him as a solid support piece. It's unfortunate that it isn't a very common keyword since it was a fun era of the Avengers and featured a lot of my favorite characters. In fact, there are only two modern age characters that even HAVE the keyword. Still not as bad as the Wrecking Crew or Alpha Flight, but I'm starting to think that somebody is trying to tell me something about my favorite pieces!

Other players' comments/reviews


sv051 V Ant-Man
Team: Avengers
Range: 4
Points: 81
Keywords: Avengers, Scientist

8 9 18 2

7 9 17 2

7 9 16 1

6 8 18 1

6 8 17 1

6 7 17 2

5 7 16 2

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

PROS: This Ant-Man is much more of an amalgamation of the Ant-men that came before. The charge on his opening click has returned, the incapacitate is showing up a little less but it's moved up to be part of his starting click. The defense value overall is still on the high end of average when you look at the total picture, and there are four clix of perplex which is NEVER a bad thing. You'll need a bit of luck with a top attack of nine to make him a secondary attacker, but it's not impossible. I'm really glad that they didn't try to make him better than an Ant-Man should be. There is nothing quite as awkward in HeroClix as explaining why a character is stronger in it's clix form than it is in the comics and they didn't let the increase of experience level and point value overtake reasoning when assigning stats and powers.

CONS: You can really tell the difference between older clix and newer clix in this version of Ant-Man. In a more modern age figure, those last two clix of his life would likely not even be there. He might even be KO'd by click #5. The old long dials are good for Mastermind, sure, but you won't find a lot of that on the theme teams that you would be playing him on (As an Avenger at least). I would like to think that he would only top out at about 60 points if he were to be made in a more modern setting. 81 points just seems a little excessive in a 300 point game to have a character that is relegated to support and/or secondary attacker status.

THEME: I personally like to play him on a team of "Little" characters with people like Wasp, Atom, and Shrinkink Violet, but that is one of those quirky non-keyword theme teams. For a sanctioned keyword theme team, I am going to be putting him on an Avengers theme team, but I wouldn't likely include him unless the team is about 600 points and I'm looking for a little extra support.

Other players' comments/reviews


sv205 LE Dr. Hank Pym
Team: Avengers
Range: 6
Points: 59
Keywords: Scientist, West Coast Avengers

8 9 16 2

7 9 16 1

7 9 15 1

6 8 15 1

6 8 15 1

5 7 14 1

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

PROS: Back in the early days of my collecting, this would be the exact thing that I would look for in an LE figure. He has powers and abilities that can't be found on ANY of the REV versions of the figure. He is the total package when it comes to support. Granted, he doesn't have EVERY support power that people find desirable, but I love having medics on a team that aren't there simply as Medics. His role changes on nearly every click he is on. He boosts/lowers stats on his opening click and transitions to healer, attacker, and then moves on to boosting your team's ranged damage on his last two clicks. He even has an increased six range to aid him in being a bit more offensive with his familiar incapacitate and his newly gained energy explosion. Not to be ignored, make sure you get use out of his last two clicks of barrier. He can throw up a barrier and keep himself/others safe while still retaining base contact to an ally to get use out of that enhancement. He's just an all-around team player.

CONS: The one thing that bugs me (No pun intended) about this dial is the fact that he's traded in naturally high stats for powers that can, at times, replicate those defenses. A good player is not going to just sit back most of the time and take pot shots at an effective 18 defense. They are going to get in close and eliminate the variable. It might help him get into the position you need him to at least temporarily, but overall, you are likely to get little mileage out of those powers and at that point you are only dealing with defenses that are on the low end of average.

THEME: He would fit in very well with both worlds that he has keywords for. He could find a home with many of them. One thing that I didn't point out in the pros section is that he is a flyer. This could help many characters in the Scientist community who tend to be slower moving. Correct me if I'm wrong, please, but I don't believe that this has ever been errata'd despite the fact that he doesn't have a flight base and was still made in an era of flight bases. This isn't to say that flight and his powers wouldn't be a boon for a lot of Avengers characters as well, but he seems to fit more with the Science crowd based on his powers.

Other players' comments/reviews

There is plenty more Hank Pym fun coming your way in two weeks. There have been many Hank Pym iterations made over the years so I couldn't fit them all into one article without Pym Particles existing in reality. So, join me in two weeks when I tackle all of the carded Hank Pym Heroclix! Thank you once again to my brother Jeremiah for the generosity/inspiration for this and the upcoming article about Marvel's Scientist Supreme.

Ahhh... Hank Pym. good choice!

I always loved the Supernova versions most, even in light of the newer versions we've gotten over the last year. They were always useful somehow, and nobody expects Hank Pym to run around with 6+ clicks of life as Ant-Man while still contributing with supporting powers and high defenses for the cost.

It's also funny that you had to put a disclaimer not to make spousal abuse jokes. Only Hank Pym could actually make that disclaimer valid!

Great reviews! I'm pretty sure that the LE Pym did have a flight base. It looked kind of weird because his little jump arc was mounted onto a clear plastic piece that sat on top of the flight base.
I ended up modding mine to look like Pym in the red jumpsuit from West Coast Avengers, and I probably played that version more than any of the REVS.

If you include the Masters of Evil Yellowjacket on a team with Chaos War Baron Zemo you can use Thunderbolts to use Defenders!

My favourite Antman was always the experienced one pushing it to get defend /stealth when needed and perplex is always good.I liked the sculpt size because it allows you to see the sculpt details and better paint details you don't get on the tinier sculpts. Also it looks cool on your book shelf.
I also used to play the puck antman with rare infinity challenge wasp armor wars rare gold armor Ironman Clobbering Time Rookie Thor, Infinity Challenge Rookie Hulk and Thunderbolting them all to Defenders. Even if Antman was there with 20 defense there was still Wasp's 19 defense. That team would not do good today .

Oh, that's right. I think he did. Oops.

I like to think of the Supernova Ant-Man as 'actual size'. Not quite ant-sized, but still tiny enough he could be 'to scale' with us normal people. The real tiny ones in CW are cool, but lacking much detail.

I used to have the Yellowjacket puck until I took a clix hiatus and sold some off. Pym's always been a favorite Avengers of mine, and I applaud you for not taking the 'wife-beater' angle with him.

His character made a mistake exactly ONCE, and has grown as a character so much more than that one mistake that he has ALWAYS regretted. It's unfortunate that some people can't look past that one panel from many years ago and get onboard with one of the best Avengers ever. Janet forgave him, why can't the public?

There have been so many Hank Pyms. 2 Deep Dishes are needed for him.

Exactly. It didn't help that Bendis, when he took over Avengers back in the day, went on about this for quite a while, making such a big deal about it. I really think it misinformed a lot of people about him as a character. Not to mention Ultimates Hank..... ugh.

I really like Hank Pym, and that is why it hurt that much more when I realized I wouldn't be able to afford to get a Con Exclusive Giant Man. There is not even another modern age Giant Man to choose from.

Where's the Zombie? Where are the Morph forms from CW? SI Skrull version?

Where's your reading comprehension?

As someone who has firsthand experience of what spousal abuse looks like (by way of my father) I can tell you it is in no way funny. I can also tell you that holding grudges for behavior that's changed helps precisely no one.

I'm also a big fan of Hank Pym.

I also loved this character. Haven't read anything in years, but up through the 2000's, Avengers was a staple for me. Thanks for the write up.