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Reload this Page Alternate Team Spirit: Rogues
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Old 03/06/2013, 05:34
    #1
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Alternate Team Spirit: Rogues
Sometimes the basics aren’t enough. Sometimes you need a little something extra when it comes to your choice of team ability. And when that happens, you need an Additional Team Ability. But which one suits your play style, and why should you even play it? Hopefully I can help you with that.

This time on Alternate Team Spirit: Rogues!
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Old 03/06/2013, 05:35
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Greetings, my fellow Clixers, and welcome to another installment of Alternate Team Spirit! It seems like crime doesn’t pay in DC HeroClix, at least if you’re someone who commits crimes somewhere other than Gotham City. With that in mind, let’s have a look at Rogues!


While it’s certainly a thematic offering, Rogues suffers from a few problems. For starters, Flash’s enemies haven’t been first in line to get ‘Clix made of themselves; the only guys they seem to be ahead of in this scenario are the people who fight guys like Aquaman, Green Lantern, and Wonder Woman. On top of that, the Rogues aren’t exactly the most effective group of guys. They’ve almost exclusively got the Calculator team ability, but there’s really not much for them to copy except for the Injustice League Team ability (which is terrible); I know there’s also a few generics with more useful team abilities, but I’d rather play with “supervillains” instead of just “dudes from the street” unless it’s a huge prison break. Besides, who are they really going to hit? With their low median attack values, it’s highly unlikely that these guys are going to land a blow on their perennial enemy, the Flash, even if they do manage to catch him with their ATAs granted Outwit; you could team them up with the Bat-Foes, but it kind of defeats the purpose of trying to play straight Rogues (unless you have the money to waste on the Henchman). And, let’s be honest, those points you spent on the ATA are going to be dead worthless if there’s not anyone using Hypersonic Speed or the Move and Attack ability on your opponent’s side of the map. Sure, there are other ATAs that could have no effect depending on what your opponent is playing, but most of those cost about half of what Rogues does. I’m just saying, it seems like these guys could use a few breaks.
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Old 03/06/2013, 05:36
    #3
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Oh, like you thought I forgot this episode. Redeemed the entire last season of JLU, if you ask me.

In Action
It’s times like this that I wish we had a classic Trickster figure. I really want to play the roster pictured above, but it’s looking more and more like that’s never going to happen. I’m going to keep this team small, since the Rogues don’t really have much of a prayer in higher-point games. Sorry, but them’s the brakes. Where to start?

jl006 E Heat Wave
Team: Calculator
Range: 8
Points: 56
Keywords: Rogues
8
9
16
1
6
8
15
1
7
8
16
2
7
7
16
2
6
7
15
1
6
7
15
1
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO


I’m not going to lie, Heat Wave was actually the last guy I chose for this team, and it was mostly because I wanted to come as close to 300 as possible with as few examples of other elements (feats, objects, etc) as possible. He’s actually pretty good if you keep him on his first couple of clicks, though his mid-dial Enhancement could come in handy with all the ranged attacks this team can make. His Mastermind is a little confusing (and pretty pointless on this team, since his only target will probably be more effective once he lands on it), but you should hope that you don’t run into it all that often, since it signals the end of his combat prowess. If nothing else, you can always use him as mobile blocking terrain, if you have no better uses for him.

cd201 LE Len Snart
Team: Calculator
Range: 6
Points: 77
Keywords: Rogues
8
9
16
3
8
8
16
3
8
8
15
3
7
7
15
2
7
7
14
2
6
9
14
3
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO


This was the first LE I ever won, and I’ve always used this figure whenever I need a Captain Cold, even when he doesn’t have the proper keywords; this guy makes my Legion of Doom (the cartoon roster, of course) teams every time. He’s got a pretty sweet power line-up, including front-dial Incapacitate, Running Shot, Barrier, and Leadership, which gives you a lot of options. If there can be any complaints, they would be that A) he’s pretty top-loaded, like all old figures, and B) he doesn’t have a higher attack value, which would help his wildcard buddies out a lot. Still, he is a pretty solid piece overall.

or051 V Mirror Master
Team: Injustice League
Range: 8
Points: 88
Keywords: Injustice Gang, Rogues
8
10
16
3
7
9
16
3
7
8
15
2
6
8
15
2
8
7
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10
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1
KO
KO
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KO
KO
KO
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KO
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KO
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KO
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KO
KO
KO
KO
]

Let’s see, what have we got going for us with Mirror Master? Well, he’s got an 8 range, base 3 damage on his opening click, move-and-attack capabilities through his Transporter icon . . . oh yeah, and he’s also pretty impossible to hit if you can roll properly. While he does have a low defense, it’s backed up by both Super Senses and Shape Change, which make him pretty annoying. His Transporter status also allows him to carry figures around, which helps in positioning your team. All in all, a real team player. And while his Injustice League team ability is a bit of a point-sink, it does give your wild cards something to copy.

ht081 V Weather Wizard
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 10
Points: 50
Keywords: Rogues
7
9
15
1
6
9
15
1
6
8
14
1
5
7
13
1
4
7
12
1
4
6
11
1
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO


You know, I remember a guy who played a V Booster Gold (the Hypertime one) on his team back in the day. I played against that figure my first game, and my first thought was “Oh, it’s that loser from the future, meh”. After getting shot from 10 squares away, I learned to respect figures with 10 range, no matter how lame the character seemed. And when you think about it, this Weather Wizard is pretty similar. He looks pretty unthreatening, but he ends up surprising you when you least expect it. He’ll usually be pretty much ignored for most of the game, but can finish enemies from areas of the map than your opponents can probably reach. He can also Force Blast enemies that do get close, which helps him stay healthy. He could use a remake, though.

I’m really having trouble assigning objects and the like to this team, because they’re kind of all over the place in every regard except that they all make ranged attacks. I really haven’t done much with Flash enemies before, so I’m just going to leave those last 5 points unfilled in my line-up; feel free to suggest whatever you feel would work best if you can think of anything. I’m not trying to be lazy on this; I just don’t have enough experience playing the Rogues firsthand to know what works best with them.

Heat Wave – 56 points
-Rogues – 6 points
LE Len Snart – 77 points
-Rogues – 6 points
V Mirror Master – 88 points
-Rogues – 6 points
V Weather Wizard – 50 points
-Rogues – 6 points

Total – 295 points

Mirror Master and Weather Wizard can each truck out a friendly character, and should do so. I suggest pairing Len with Mirror Master (so they can both use Injustice League if you get the chance) and Heat Wave with Weather Wizard (since they have longish ranges, and are better fighting in the backfield anyway). Admittedly it’s a bit of a long shot, but the Rogues can be a surprising lot.

Final Assessment
It really seems like someone’s dropping the ball on designing DC villains, and this ATA has brought to light a group that deserves justice (or would that be “injustice” for villains? I wonder . . .). It’s actually not a bad ability, just a little overcosted. Play wisely

That’s all for this one; I’m not quite sure what I’m covering for the next Object of Desire yet, so it’ll be unpredictable. Until then, happy Clixin’!
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Old 03/06/2013, 06:39
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I love The Flash. I agree the classic rogues need updates, but here is my 400pt rogue team that has won me a tournament or two


AA036 Zoom
62 JL025 Dr. Alchemy
100 JL042 Abra Kadabra
80 AA053 The Top
With the ata they come to 396. Abra's perplex really helps a lot.

At 300pts, I drop The Top and the ata


In general, any Flash villain team needs either Zoom or Grodd to really work. At higher point levels, both together can wreck shop with the lesser rogues protecting them with tie up (Trickster, Trickster/piper, Mirror Master), blocking LOF (Capt. Cold) and wiping out opposing teams support (Capt. Boomerang, Abra Kadabra) as another option Black Flash can work, but my dice hate him so I never use him. If you use Grodd over Zoom you can use Kid Zoom, then there is no need for the ata. If you really want to get clever, Look to the Jay Garrick Flash enemies. Icicle gives you another barrier piece, and The Shade can give you Mystics TA for the calculators to copy, or if using a lot of Flash enemies without calculator, downgrade to the Richard Swift LE for cheap perplex
Last edited by valtrades; 03/06/2013 at 06:54.
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Old 03/06/2013, 08:11
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I've found this ATA works best in small doses and, as it turns out, when mixed with non-Rogues. On a classic "Legion of Doom" team, Captain Cold and FF: Bizarro make a great pair, with the Captain giving Bizarro Outwit thanks to the Superman Enemy TA, while Cold himself is free to use his ATA on the likes of Superman or the Flash before the pair can be based.
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Old 03/06/2013, 11:40
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We never did hear from the card designer, did we? I was always curious about the choices he had for designing the ATAs and whether WK turned down any other ideas he had.

The Rogues just need a set where the main 5 or 6 are all designed at once and with some synergy. I guess "Justice League" was a moderate attempt at that (the four come in at just less than 300 points).
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Old 03/06/2013, 11:50
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ok not sure who is sitting next to mirror master but he reminds me of Mark Hamill's character "#### Knocker" from Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back.
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Old 03/06/2013, 12:28
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Quote : Originally Posted by d0nut View Post
ok not sure who is sitting next to mirror master but he reminds me of Mark Hamill's character "#### Knocker" from Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back.
Yeah, well, that's Trickster, voiced by.....Mark Hamill.
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Old 03/06/2013, 12:39
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Quote : Originally Posted by szude View Post
Yeah, well, that's Trickster, voiced by.....Mark Hamill.
Who was played in the short lived Flash TV series by...Mark Hammil!
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Old 03/06/2013, 13:08
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They need to make a flash set,remake the rogues and make flash allies.
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Old 03/06/2013, 13:36
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We really do need a Rogues set for remakes.

The only legal one we have right now is Captain Boomerang.
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Old 03/06/2013, 13:38
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Yeah the Rogues could really use an update in order to make better use of that ATA.
Last edited by MindsEnd; 03/06/2013 at 13:39. Reason: Someone already posted answer.
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Old 03/06/2013, 14:13
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DC Villains have pretty much always gotten the short-end of the stick when it comes to TAs. That Rogue ATA, not being a big exception. That the Rogues, in general, have been done so poorly just further highlights the problem.
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Old 03/06/2013, 16:38
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Quote : Originally Posted by jm0629 View Post
They need to make a flash set,remake the rogues and make flash allies.
I totally agree
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Old 03/06/2013, 19:29
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Quote : Originally Posted by gatharion View Post
DC Villains have pretty much always gotten the short-end of the stick when it comes to TAs. That Rogue ATA, not being a big exception. That the Rogues, in general, have been done so poorly just further highlights the problem.
I agree. I always thought it really unfair that the Rogues, who are Flash villains and regularly challenge him one-on-one, can't do much against him in Heroclix. Flash has a 17 (or 18 or 19 or 20) defense, and most Rogues top out at 9 attack. Maybe if the Rogues ATA allowed them to have bonuses to their Attack and Defense against someone with Hypersonic (and/or Speed value over 10, perhaps) then they'd stand a chance.
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